I'm sure his wife was waiting off camera with a bar of soap. I would ask which brand has the mildest flavor, but I'm sure he didnt curse enough to find that out.😅

@tomjacobs644

5 ай бұрын

My mom washed my mouth out with Fels Naptha bar soap...not recommended...last time for me!

I praise Jesus for leading me to your Channel. I've had Muslims doing Dawah raise these objections about The Bible not being God's word because of these words. These were great explanations of the original meanings of these words, that I will share next time against the Dawahgangists. God bless you Dr Ward.

@markwardonwords

7 ай бұрын

Thank you!

Great video! Thanks. As usual, your research and preparation are impeccable.

@markwardonwords

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the kind word!

I always associated "bowels" as the seat of emotion with both the phraseology we would use about something we feel "in our gut" or at a very deep level. I also always associated it with the fact that sometimes deep emotion feels like it emanates from our abdomen (i.e. butterflies in our stomach).

@markwardonwords

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed. I think I always did understand this one pretty well-though it still always struck me as odd!

@Beefcake1982

22 күн бұрын

My first daughter is named Ellie. When she was little I noticed that whenever she was sick and I would get worried about her I would feel sick to my stomach. I started calling her Ellie my belly. So yeah the bowels thing totally makes sense to me.

One of your best vids so far! Serious and yet funny...

@markwardonwords

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

Your use of alliteration is so good 😂

I was once called an "ass" by a loud crying KJV only street preacher. After which he shouted, "Bet you thought I was swearing son! Read your bible. The Bible says the fool is like an ass." He was referencing Proverbs 26:3. I wish he had read Proverbs 26:4-12 instead.

@markwardonwords

3 жыл бұрын

Sigh!

I am totally enjoying your videos! I have been feeling really horrible becuase my pastor recently told me that my CSB is a horrible translation and I have to get a KJV Bible to have the true word of God. I have had a few sleepness nights thinking of this and researching as to whether or not I am sinning as he said. I was saved 24 yrs ago, used the KJV only until I was in my 40's, discovered the CSB and haven't put my Bible down since. Your videos have been helpful and I am now confident to keep on with my CSB and view it as a blessing. Thank you!

@markwardonwords

3 жыл бұрын

Rosemarie, I'm so glad to hear from you. I'd encourage you to be respectful of your pastor and not to take up this issue with other church members and therefore possibly cause division. But we must obey God rather than man, and reading a Bible translation in your English rather than someone else's is your privilege and responsibility. The Bible does not give him the authority to insist that you read only the KJV; the Bible does not teach that the KJV is the only true Word of God. The CSB is an excellent translation. You could, however, privately ask your pastor what he would recommend you do if you have trouble understanding the older English of the KJV, as I do. If he insists that it's the KJV or nothing, then you may need to have a more difficult conversation.

@RosemarieTM

3 жыл бұрын

@@markwardonwords thank you for replying! I definitely will not bring it up to others in the church. Like you said it would most certainly cause division in the church and I would never want to be the culprit of that. Thank you for pointing that out. I think that the next time I am confronted about my Bible I will joyfully smile and say it works for me. I am not ready for theological arguments with the pastor as I feel like I don't know enough about translations. I am truly excited about being able to finally understand what I am reading! Thanks for the encouragement ! 🙌

@Watchdog123go

2 ай бұрын

You my dear sister in Christ Jesus are/is the very reason Mark is being poured out... Thank you for letting him know of the goodness of God through him unto you ...

As an RC who loves your book and follows your channel, I’d love to hear your take on the Douay Rhiems in comparison to the KJV. Your scholarship is so comprehensive and trustworthy and is such welcome truth on social media. I think a video on the so-called spectrum of formal to dynamic equivalences would be great as well. Thanks for your good content!!

@markwardonwords

3 жыл бұрын

Carolyn, I have so little real experience in the Douay-Rheims… I feel like I’d have to do some pretty hard work to add value there. But I really do appreciate your reaching out about this. I don’t forget the ideas people give me. Sometimes they just take a while to germinate. I am getting closer to beginning the book I half-promised at the end of Authorized, a book on how people who haven’t been able to study Greek and Hebrew can compare Bible translations profitably. That will no doubt spawn some videos, too, if the Lord allows it to come into being!

Hello Mark. The phrase him/one/any «that pisseth against the wall» actually occurs several times in the KJV O.T (1. Sam. 25:22, 34, 1. Kings 14:10, 16:11, 21:21 & 2. Kings 9:8.) A couple of these occurences are from Yahweh’s own address (see 1. Kings 14:10.) Therefore we must be careful not to ascribe this expression to carnality or immaturity on David’s part. If God could use the expression, so could David! Just wanted to make the point. In Christ, Trond.

@markwardonwords

2 жыл бұрын

This is a weighty point that I will take into consideration as I prepare a book based on my Fifty False Friends KZread series. Thank you for this.

I’m telling my mama on you for cussing so much! 🤪 Great video, as always.

@markwardonwords

3 жыл бұрын

I read this to the mom of the house before shooting the video. =) She made a few wise suggestions-I have a really wise wife-and okayed the rest!

Do you thin Rabshakeh's statement should have been translated by Robert Alter as "sh*t" instead of "turd"? I also never found "bowels" to be offensive, perhaps because I come from a family with two nurses who routinely used phrases like "bowel movement."

@markwardonwords

2 жыл бұрын

Off the top of my head, with no further looking at resources, I'll bet Rabshakeh probably did use a more offensive version of that word. But I don't know. Perhaps the Hebrew Bible already pulled the word back toward something a bit less offensive??? This would take some homework!

Thanks for this video, Mark. I'm fond of the 'pisseth against the wall' verse because it's so authentic to me verse modern renderings.

@markwardonwords

Жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

Bowels sounds a bit more medical to me. Ive often heard doctors and patients talking of bowel movements.

@paulsimpson3113

Ай бұрын

Having had my bowels removed I second your comment, although now I definitely have to feel things from my heart

@AICW

24 күн бұрын

@@paulsimpson3113 English has plenty of stomach-related emotional language euphemisms. "Butterflies in the stomach," a "sinking feeling," "gut instinct," etc.

@paulsimpson3113

24 күн бұрын

@AICW oh I agree, I was just joking because of my surgery

Always enjoy your videos

@markwardonwords

Жыл бұрын

Glad you like them, Dennis! It’s an honor.

Excellent arguments eloquently stated. Thumbs up!

@markwardonwords

2 жыл бұрын

So kind! Thank you!

Great work on this video! Well done, as usual. (Probably about the only Bible-oriented video I've ever seen that has the infamous "F-word" visible in a couple shots. Not offended by it, just mentioning it!)

@markwardonwords

3 жыл бұрын

I did not notice this! Was it in the screenshots from the NOW corpus?

@corybanter

3 жыл бұрын

@@markwardonwords Yes, e.g. 3:40 mark, second hit. (Truly, language of any kind doesn't offend me. But I wanted to let you know, just in case someone did get offended. Maybe you can blur it out at some point?)

@corybanter

3 жыл бұрын

Meanwhile, thanks for bringing the NOW corpus to my attention. I'd never seen the site before...it's the type of thing that could lead me down some pretty deep rabbit holes!

“When certain KJV words … make the teens titter.” I am reminded of a famous comedian in the UK called Frankie Howerd whose catchphrase was the delightfully KJV-esque “Titter ye not!” Perhaps that should be adopted as an admonishment in American pulpits?

@markwardonwords

Жыл бұрын

It's just that it's needless. "Donkey" will do just fine. Even "100% King James" Dan Haifley of the King James Bible Research Council said as much at their recent annual conference.

@salvadaXgracia

7 ай бұрын

I finally understand now why he kept using the word titter in this video. Never heard that word before. Sounds like another KJV word to have to look up! 😂

@debras3806

3 ай бұрын

Story at 21:15!

This is absolutely hilarious! Two Sundays ago , the only one of our elders that uses the KJB read our Old Testament passage for us that included the word “ass” and it caught me so off guard that even i almost burst out in irreverent laughter.

@markwardonwords

11 ай бұрын

Right!

Thank you. Good video. Well done.

@markwardonwords

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching!

It may be noted that to this very day, in British English, the body part has a different name than the donkey, so the confusion does not arise.

@markwardonwords

Ай бұрын

Yes, I saw this in my research! I’ve watched a lot of BBC shows, and I’d seen the different spelling. But I didn’t quite realize what was going on.

The problem with the literal usage of bowels in that context is the resson why interpretation is done thought for thought. I say this because I work as an interpreter; translating/interpreting thought for thought saves lives.

Instructive. Thanks

@markwardonwords

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks again for watching!

In many cases I have been able to use "guts" in lieu of "bowels" (based on Latin "viscera"). But in Philemon I was uneven (used "heart" once and "inner being" the other time), because "guts" didn't really work there.

Thank you for so eloquently handling this subject. Though I often read the KJV in my personal study, I do not read it with my wife and children for this very reason. As a side note, my wife is of another generation from me and she finds the language of the NKJV a bit difficult to follow...

The first time I encoutered "ass" to mean "donkey" was when someone was quoting Judges 15:16 : "And Samson said, With the jawbone of an ass, heaps upon heaps, with the jaw of an ass have I slain a thousand men." I had no idea that "ass" just meant donkey at the time and I genuinely thought he was using the bones that come from the behind of an animal , I was so confused at the time It wasnt until I searched about it on the internet that I got the actual meaning... but to this day its hard not to imagine what I thought when I read that story from the KJV ...

@allangibson8494

5 ай бұрын

And the correct English spelling for backside is ARSE. The misspelling is an American change.

Mark Ward, the sailor! j/k, Great video!

@markwardonwords

3 жыл бұрын

Ha!

Lovely use of the tongue passage.

@markwardonwords

Жыл бұрын

Thank you kindly!

Great story.

@markwardonwords

3 жыл бұрын

So memorable.

Bowels is a normal word. Not a curse word at all.

@markwardonwords

2 жыл бұрын

"Bad" is a bit of a stretch for that word, I agree. The point is words that cause tittering among teens.

@caseyanne967

Жыл бұрын

@@markwardonwords I'm curious... is the immaturity level of certain teens the standard upon which you judge the words of the KJB?

@markwardonwords

Жыл бұрын

@@caseyanne967 It is one relevant measure. They are the plow boys for whom Tyndale died.

@caseyanne967

Жыл бұрын

​@@markwardonwords But that isn't just about certain words in the KJV. The same teens would titter over things like a "talking donkey", or how about the Song of Solomon. Even with modern bibles, I'm sure some of those lines would have them tittering. The problem is with the teens and their attitude, not the bible.

@markwardonwords

Жыл бұрын

@@caseyanne967 My friend, I don't deny that unbelieving teens might laugh at things they shouldn't-though my old youth group certainly wouldn't have laughed at the story of Balaam's donkey. We were in a place that honored Scripture. Can you see that I'm not criticizing the Bible? I'm not even criticizing a translation of the Bible. I'm pointing to ways in which words that used to mean one thing have come to mean other things that are unnecessarily confusing.

I learned that Bastard was a "bad word" later on. Having read a lot of medieval history, I thought it always meant illegitimate child.

@markwardonwords

7 ай бұрын

You are in a tiny minority of contemporary English speakers!

@Roescoe

7 ай бұрын

@@markwardonwords Homeschooling FTW. Funny enough I wasn't even raised on KJV, though I did memorize verses in the NKJV. Main reading bible was NIV. Now I'm more partial to the ESV, but nothing beats reading Psalms in KJV.

@Roescoe

7 ай бұрын

And that's most likely because Handel's music just pops up in my head when I read it. Okay I admit it. I'm a weird statistical anomaly. A late Millennial, who learned Latin and has a history nerd Dad. That's likely why I find myself so interested in this series.

@Roescoe

7 ай бұрын

Oh and one more thing I just learned in this video that it was a general insult. I thought until now it was an insult because it meant illegitimate child. Guess words really do change quickly.

I once asked a well-known music pastor if he'd ever had any qualms about the first verse of "Good Christian Men Rejoice" due to the presence of an archaic reference to certain animals. He said no, and moved right on to the next question. I was a little surprised. I guess there is a lot of pressure from the weight of tradition, especially for Christmas songs. But I just can't believe that great things happen in the minds of church visitors when that old carol is sung... and keep in mind that visitors are more likely at Christmas. I do think, though, that part of the thing with that pastor is that he served in a region where even non-churched people would perhaps have some traditionalism in their upbringing that would make them hesitate to use that term in a crass way, and perhaps they'd be more likely to recognize the older meaning. But in many places (like western Canada), I don't think the old sense is really that well known at all. That word almost never refers to a "donkey" for people in many cultures. What to do about that old song? I have no idea, although I guess it's fading out anyway. Check out the chart showing hymnal usage here: hymnary.org/text/good_christian_men_rejoice

@markwardonwords

3 жыл бұрын

I’m concerned first about the Bible-but “edification requires intelligibility” applies to hymns, too. I give people grace and time, because linguistic change happens slowly. There’s no clear point at which a word becomes offensive. There is no instant in time. And I love the traditional songs, too. And I have some of the contrarian elitist traditionalist’s desire to hold on to good things that go over other people’s heads! I just temper that desire, in church especially, for the good of my neighbor.

@thetickedoffpianoplayer4193

2 жыл бұрын

I think we sang that a few times, but I don't remember what we did about that. Maybe we just didn't sing that verse. We did, however, sing "What Child is This" when we went Christmas caroling at nursing homes. The line, "Where ox and ass are feeding" was Bowdlerized to "ox and sheep". I also heard a country singer use lambs.

All the uses of pisseth in the KJV refer to the enemy when they cower. It is not used respectfully.

@markwardonwords - As for "bowels" being the inner seat of emotions, you missed a modern version that is not (so far as I know) considered gross. We speak of "I feel it in my guts", or "a gut feeling". In Yiddish there are similar expressions that use the word קישקע "kishkes" (from the Russian Кишки) which literally means intestines (Polish "Kiszka"). And we can see how "intestinal fortitude" to overcome "butterflies in our stomach", etc indicates the emotional connection to visceral reactions to a gut-wrenching experience. Not that we should trust our gut instinct, but we might have a "belly laugh" over such things.

While I'm not aware of any modern version using "pisseth against the wall," I believe the CSB includes "urinates against the wall" as a more literal footnote.

@markwardonwords

3 жыл бұрын

Good for them!

Bastard was always pejorative. A child who didn’t know their father were always looked down on - hence the penalty’s in the bible.

Great video! I appreciate your work. I grew up using the KJV, even going through a mild KJV-only phase in my teens. A couple of years ago I switched to the ESV for daily reading, but still love so many things about the old classic. Having watched a few of your videos, I appreciate the way you affirm its strengths while also pointing out the practical realities that make modern translations necessary. I have a question regarding the idea that David's use of "pisseth against the wall" was a sin. What do you make of the handful of other uses of the phrase in the OT? Apart from David, it's used once in narrative (1 Kings 16:11), twice in passages starting with "thus saith the LORD" (1 Kings 14:10; 2 Kings 9:8), and once in a prophetic utterance with "thus saith the LORD" clearly implied (1 Kings 21:21). All four of these examples are in the context of divine judgment (and the surrounding verses show the later instances are meant to evoke the earlier ones), so I don't doubt that the phrase is meant to have shock value. I just have a hard time calling a phrase "sinful" when the Bible puts it in God's mouth through the prophets. What do you think?

@markwardonwords

3 жыл бұрын

This is an excellent question, and I think it answers itself: if God says it, it's not sin. I don't know that this means David was okay to be that angry-but it considerably weakens my case that he was wrong to be that earthy. I think the narrative in Samuel shows that David was wrong to be that vindictive, because Abigail's intervention is painted in a good light, and God takes care of the vengeance-and inflicts it on one man only, Nabal. I forget precisely what I said in this video about "pisseth against the wall," but as I work on the book version of the Fifty False Friends series this summer, I will be sure to incorporate your needed correction here.

@michaelhessii1866

3 жыл бұрын

@@markwardonwords Agreed-David's words and actions were clearly motivated by a sinful spirit, whether or not any specific action was inherently sinful. I'll look forward to your book when it comes out!

Congratulations for making this video.I have been waiting for this presentation for quite some time now,it really is right on target.I suppose you will be flooded with negative comments.There is another word in Jeremiah 36:23 referring to penknife in the KJV but replaced by scribe's knife in the NASB.

@markwardonwords

3 жыл бұрын

Interesting… May need to check that one out.

Doreen Virtue sent me. I went to a Christian school from 3rd to 12th grade. We had to use the KJV until high school. When a student was reading Exodus 20:17 my teacher yelled out "Say donkey!'

@markwardonwords

6 ай бұрын

Ha! Love this!

Insults are interesting and tricky, a lot of insults are used precisely because the user knows the literal meaning. They either like the intensity of the meaning or the illustration it draws. Generally though, the accusation to be taken literally. The most prominent example begins with an F. Everybody knows what it means, and most of the time it is used, it is intended to carry an illusion to the actual meaning of the word, however, the user of the word does not really mean the actual meaning… With some of the words in this video, I do wonder how many people actually don’t know the origin of the word, versus how many people actually like to use the word because they do know of the original meaning, and they like using that as an insult. This is obviously difficult or impossible to know, just some random musings on the topic. By the way, I want to be extremely careful, I am also sensitive to these topics, and if the way I alluded to that other example crossed a line, I will happily delete my own comment, please just let me know.

At this Chrismas time, may I greet all my Christian brothers and sisters (especially you Mark) with "the bowels of Christ" (Phil 1:8). Paul's enthusiasm for bowels has always made me laugh. I imagine him going around with a cartload of warm mess, cheerfully spreading 'joy' over everyone he meets. (OK, I know I have a strange sense of humour.) Seriously though, If there was one word that illustrates for me the need for newer translations it is this one. It turns his wonderful expression of affection into something both weird and mildly disturbing.

People still speak of "the bowels of the Earth", and there's even Irritable Bowel Syndrome.

@markwardonwords

Ай бұрын

Agreed.

True, the word versions is not mentioned in the Bible, however, the word Scripture is used 50+ times. Would the meaning of that term give us a clue as to what we should be using? I believe that it does.

Mark,your a very intelligent man.

@markwardonwords

Жыл бұрын

Many thanks. Please pray that I would have wisdom and love!

Depending on the context, the modern "guts" and "heart" could each be a significant updated translation for the KJV's "bowels."

@markwardonwords

2 жыл бұрын

Good thinking!

@fnjesusfreak

2 жыл бұрын

That's the exact approach I take.

I didn't understand the kjv the first time i read it as an unsaved satanic reprobate. I eventually got saved and read it again with the hunger of a new convert , and you really start to understand the more you read it despite false friends and what not. Though i do admit it has a learning curve and the non bible enthusiast doesn't understand the style unfortunately.

@markwardonwords

2 ай бұрын

Amen! Something similar happened to me.

There isn't any Bible translation that refers to those who "relieve themselves against the wall"?

“And Canadians….. (11:18)” 😂😂😂

@markwardonwords

Жыл бұрын

Gotta love those Canadians!

It seems that at the time of the King James translation there was not as much a distinction between “polite” and “vulgar” English as in later times. Luther didn’t seem to make such a distinction in his German translation. The distinction seems to be breaking down again in movies and novels, but has not reached English Bible translation.

@markwardonwords

4 ай бұрын

Boy, I'm not quite sure I agree here. I'm not quite sure what this means, either.

I was listening to the video, but I didn't catch if you mentioned that in 1 Kings 14:10 and elsewhere, the phrase "pisseth against the wall" is also used by God when he proclaims a curse against the house of Jeroboam and later against the house of Ahab.

@markwardonwords

2 жыл бұрын

Others pointed this out to me-I did miss it! In my book (based on the Fifty False Friends in the KJV series) I'm planning to mention this.

There seems to be a pipeline of neutral, technical terms becoming offensive over time as they are taken up by popular usage. Another example is the word "retarded" which was originally a "P.C." term replacing previous technical terms for intellectual disability such as "moron" that had been coloured by popular usage as derogatory.

@markwardonwords

10 ай бұрын

The euphemism treadmill.

Question....Does modern day spoken Hebrew change over time like other languages? To clarify my question, can Israelis today read the ancient manuscripts as if it’s their modern spoken language?

@markwardonwords

3 жыл бұрын

Hebrew does change over time. It has changed since it first began to be spoken again by large numbers, which was less than 100 years ago. The story of the revival of Hebrew as a spoken vernacular is incredible. I've read two books on it, one awesome and one boring-which was such a sin, because the story is so amazing. It is my understanding that Israelis today cannot read biblical Hebrew with fluency. Despite reading two books on the topic (and assorted other pieces), I just can't say precisely how far apart biblical Hebrew and modern Hebrew are.

We were always raised that the word "ass" was not bad, depending on the context, and thus, we didn't think anything of it. It probably also helped that even in The Chronicles of Narnia, the word "ass" is used, sometimes referring to an actual donkey and sometimes in reference to someone being dumb. At one point Polly tells Digory, "Shut up and don't be an ass", which is actually pretty good advice when you think about it because in the context, Digory actually was being an ass, and of course, Rabidash was an ass and was turned into a literal donkey by Aslan. Of course, it's obviously not a word to throw around willy-nilly, but if someone actually is being stubborn like a donkey, it's okay to call them an ass.

@markwardonwords

Жыл бұрын

I'm with you. If this were the only readability difficulty/oddity in the KJV, I'd just tell the fifth-grade girls to stop tittering; I'd teach them. But it's easy to fix, and it's not the only difficulty. (I know you don't deny these things.)

@michaelkelleypoetry

Жыл бұрын

@@markwardonwords Yes, I know by now that you know from other comments I've made that I'm not KJV-only by any means. I think a lot of the "tittering" by children at such things has a lot to do with the fact that people nowadays are a lot softer than past generations were. Even though I'm not a Calvinist and don't agree with him on everything (though I am postmillennial like him), that's one of the things I really love about Douglas Wilson up in Moscow, Idaho, his very Chestertonian joy as opposed to the squishy "happiness (which is really only a surface facade) of many American Christians that he calls "evanjellyfish". Of course, he was also raised on fantasy literature like Tolkien and Lewis too which comes out in his preaching. I think churches need to stop focusing so much on tabooing certain words (though like I said, also not throw them around willy-nilly), but that may be the poet in me talking. Lol. I just think that a lot that "Church Culture" considers sin isn't necessarily sin, but just a whitewashing of peoples humanity, turning churches into a hive mind.

@markwardonwords

Жыл бұрын

@@michaelkelleypoetry That's cogent, but I think you're talking about something different. The problem is not that teens are tittering at hearing the word "ass" in church; it's that the word "ass" no longer means "donkey" in any contexts with which they're familiar. Yes, ideally they'd have the education necessary to recognize that "ass" once meant "donkey." But there's simply no way a missionary to an imaginary, pagan, never-Christianized America in 2023 would translate the relevant Hebrew and Greek words with "ass." He'd use "donkey."

@michaelkelleypoetry

Жыл бұрын

@@markwardonwords I understand that, but to me, even the modern definition of the term is not always bad in my opinion. As for translation of Scripture, donkey is probably better since in Scripture it always refers to a donkey. I was just speaking generally about the use of the word "ass". I actually may have laughed too hard when you quoted the text, "she lighted off her ass". 😂

@michaelkelleypoetry

3 ай бұрын

@@ThW5 I have no idea what you're talking about. How is a "wild donkey" a mistranslation?

Thank you for the video, and thank you for making it even when it made you uncomfortable. :-) My question would be, why would Paul use a specific word for innards/bowels but mean "heart" if heart was a well known word in Greek already? Doesn't that tell us that "heart" is not exactly what he meant? The semantic meanings may overlap a bit, but surely Paul had a very specific purpose of using it (3 times) in a short letter!? Good video!

@markwardonwords

2 жыл бұрын

Excellent questions. I do not have good answers at this point. Makes me think that we do well to have two kinds of translations.

@VicRibeiro777

2 жыл бұрын

@@markwardonwords right, and that is why no translation can be perfect. But what our KJVO brothers and sisters don't seem to understand is that does not mean we don't have the Word of GOD in those imperfect translations. GOD uses imperfect translations, just as GOD can use imperfect people. :-)

@markwardonwords

2 жыл бұрын

Right!!

Taken from the Stone Tanakh footnote on 1 Sam 25:22: "The term (...) 'one that urinates against the wall' refers to males, and can be applied to either human beings or dogs. Thus, David says that no male offspring of Nabal's will remain; or, not even a dog of Nabal's will remain." I believe that this phrase was a common insult in those times, and deliberately compares certain men of being as vulgar and base as dogs, which in the Jewish context of the era were considered among the unclean animals. The usage of it in the Bible also implies the extent of the wrath on all the males of the household, even down to any dogs they might have. Personally, I appreciate these little cultural references in my Bibles as they make me want to dig deeper to understand the meanings. That being said, I do agree that they can act as a stumbling block, and perhaps we should use simpler, less aggressive wording with younger or more sensitive audiences.

I watch again this video after doing my Bible reading and remember one comment that James White use in his lecture on King James Onlyism and Your translation which I downloaded from sermonaudio.com.He said that there I are two editions of KJV who differ in reading on Jeremiah 34:16 and said that correct reading is Cambridge and the Oxford reading is wrong.

@markwardonwords

3 жыл бұрын

I'll have to check that out. Thanks!

@fnjesusfreak

2 жыл бұрын

I'm actually familiar with this, and when I review a KJV this (along with Joshua 19.2, Nahum 3.16 and Matthew 26.73) are verses I look at to discern the KJV "text type". (The first three are points where the type associated with Cambridge follows the 1611 reading and that associated with Oxford has an alteration. Generally the "Oxford" readings agree with the Vulgate; not sure why they were so made. The fourth is a common typographical error mostly seen in Zondervan KJVs.) In fact with the first 3 readings neither, AFAICT, is wrong.

I didn’t think that the ASV and RSV were “revisions” of the KJV, being that the ASV/RSV were not translated from the TR.

@markwardonwords

3 жыл бұрын

I do. ;) See KJVParallelBible dot org.

You are funny!

@markwardonwords

7 ай бұрын

No, it’s all camera tricks.

Another good example of bowels - "O ye Corinthians, our mouth is open unto you, our heart is enlarged. Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels. Now for a recompence in the same, (I speak as unto my children,) be ye also enlarged." 2 Corinthians 6:11-13

@markwardonwords

3 жыл бұрын

Right! I could have chosen many examples!

@wtbryant

3 жыл бұрын

@@markwardonwords That's a passage I actually know what it means and I still struggle to read it in the KJV and get the actual meaning out of it. It's simply unintelligible to the vast majority of the English-speaking world today.

@markwardonwords

3 жыл бұрын

I agree completely.

Interestingly, in modern British English 'ass' means only 'donkey'. We have a different spelling/pronunciation for the part of the body we sit on. I believe that US 'ass' started out as a euphemism, but quickly became almost as bad as the word it replaced.

@markwardonwords

Жыл бұрын

Yes, I became aware of the British spelling of the body part through captions on BBC shows!

Bastard or Bastarda is also the classification of the blackletter script that originated in the 14-15 century.

@markwardonwords

3 жыл бұрын

I wrote a paper on this; I used to know why it was called that. There are several major varieties of Gothic type, including Bastarda and Fraktur. Fascinating stuff. I'm glad the English-speaking world got away from Gothic and into Roman type. So much easier to read!

@allangibson8494

5 ай бұрын

@@markwardonwordsGothic came into English with the printing press (and killed a couple of the letters in English (like Thorn (a “th” sound) that was replaced with the similar looking “y” or “th” - hence “ye” for “the” and “you” replacing “thou”).

You missed by far the worst verse in the KJV. My pastor taught 2 Peter 2:16, and someone had a KJV and was dying laughing. The preacher was teaching from the NKJV I believe, most didn’t understand why the laughing

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

Oh my! Good one!

What about 'Hell' and "Damn'?

We are almost in agreement here. Using there is nothing wrong with using updated words here that have the same meaning. Heart for bowels does make sense. I do strongly suggest people stay away from more modern versions that take things in the opposite direction. The NEB had made a fart joke in Judges 1:14. The Children's Living Bible uses the term son of a B**** (I Samuel 20:30). In my opinion a Bible aimed at children should not do so. It's a new version and easier to read, right? No, I did not just google something to make a point. I actually held these versions in my hands long before dial-up modems were invented and pong was the most awesome video game available.

@markwardonwords

9 ай бұрын

I concede that Google point in your case! I should have clarified that I didn’t know that you had done that. This has happened to me, however. People come up with criticisms of the modern versions that require Greek and Hebrew knowledge they have said they don’t possess.

"...8:15 AM,.."??

@markwardonwords Regarding Balaam's ass (and the attendant jokes about getting his ass beat) - would the wording make a difference if the KJV had properly gendered the donkey in question? Consider this parallel: ויקם בלעם בבקר ויחבש את־אתנו And Balaam rose up in the morning, and saddled his ass... וישכם אברהם בבקר ויחבש את־חמרו And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass As you can see, the gender of the donkey is different. Abraham saddled his "jackass" (male). Chamor in Hebrew, so one might think that Chamorah would be the female equivalent. But the Hebrew word for the "jennyass" is pronounced the same as the English word "atone". (Which opens a degree of potential exposition that violates certain hermeneutical rules). Back when I was growing up (I was born back in the 1950s), I heard farmers referring to jackasses and jennyasses, so back then the terms didn't perhaps carry the verbal impact in that context that the term carries today. So we have a contrast between righteous Abraham who we might say "saddled his jackass nature" bringing his fleshly desires under control. But Balaam saddled his atonement, the jennyass that tried to protect him from the angel, and took the beating for things it was innocent of. (Note the use of the Hebrew word "satan" to refer to the angel being an "adversary"). Now, also notice the use of both the jackass and jennyass in this prophecy: Zechariah 9:9 "Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass." "...riding on a jackass (חמור Chamor) and upon a colt (עיר Ayir) of a jennyass (אתנות Atonot)" Almost as if 2 different donkeys were being ridden at the same time. But again, it is that idea of saddling both the jenny and jackass. Another passage that seems meaningful (to me at least) in this idea of the jackass is Exodus 34:20 - "The firstborn jackass (חמור Chamor) you shall redeem with a Lamb, and if he is not redeemed, his neck shall be broken - but your own sons you shall redeem". The jackass is a "stiff-necked" creature, deserving to have it's neck broken. And this command is given in the same breath as redeeming our own sons - which gives us a strong connection to the idea that we are a bunch of rebellious jackasses. But we can get redeemed by the Blood of the Lamb. Hopefully you don't think I've gone too far out on a theological limb here. I'm sure this line of thought probably violates the standard rules of interpretation.

That’s funny 😂😂 about the 🫏

@markwardonwords

10 ай бұрын

✔

I love the KJV

@markwardonwords

Жыл бұрын

Me too! Grew up on it! Have hundreds of phrases and verses memorized in it!

@datchet11

Жыл бұрын

@@markwardonwords I use the KJV and the NIV1984 as that's what my church uses, not a big fan of the new NIV though would like your opinion on that translation?

@markwardonwords

Жыл бұрын

See my NIV video on this channel!

The usage of words change. The word for female dog is now used as a cuss word, often in reference to crass or rude women, while it wasn't used that way 100 years ago.

@markwardonwords

2 жыл бұрын

Right!

@allangibson8494

5 ай бұрын

Sorry no. Bitch as a derogatory term for a woman dates from the 15th century. Calling a rude man a dog has similar ancient roots (and is very strongly derogatory in Islamic cultures too).

The translators could have used "pee" instead of Pisseth or urine and used "waste" instead of dung.

@markwardonwords

2 жыл бұрын

Off the top of my head, I’m not sure those words existed (or existed in those senses) in 1611.

I was expecting the funny story to involve Exodus 20:17 and gym membership.

@markwardonwords

3 жыл бұрын

Ha! It's pretty much impossible to hear that verse in the KJV and not think that… Unless you're so used to the verse (and/or the KJV) that you've gotten past that reaction! After all these years, I haven't.

yes, indeed, we accept both the "non offensive" words in the Bible, and the "bad" words ... and as a matter of constructive course, today i discovered yet another new edition of the KJV, published by Tyndale House: "KJV Large Print Thinline Filament Edition", a new interesting take on that old Bible, ... it is a new format of the KJV, with new "marginal" notes, only that the notes are placed at the right hand side of the foot of each page, giving updates of many words... this is interesting, because it seems to confirm the beliefs of many, that the KJV will not *disappear* from the scene just because many have updated the old Bible in the form of revisions of its text, there have been many updates of the KJV, but the KJV is still here... this is a circumstance that the Bible publishers seems to have grasped, and they line up with the reality of the situation, and find other ways to help modern readers to read the KJV more easily, and this new edition from Tyndale House seems to be an embodiment of that ... it will be released September 1st, just a week from now, but orders can be placed already....

@markwardonwords

3 жыл бұрын

Any tool that helps people understand God's Word better I applaud.

Issue of horses seems to be another gross statement in the Old Testament that I thought you might address, maybe in another video.

@markwardonwords

7 ай бұрын

Good call!

about 1970 an FIB-type pastor in the West Palm Beach area was interviewed by the local newspaper about a new Bible that had come out (Living Bible?). He was upset and horrified that something was translated as "son of a b---h." His quote that i remember was "I can't believe people talked like that in Bible times!" I wish I had clipped and saved that. BTW, I stumbled into something about Koine Greek - there's a small group of Jews in Greece who still speak it. Sadly this will die out. They were a small group to begin with but the Nazis murdered most of them

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

I'd love to get more info about those Jews in Greece! I confess I'm skeptical!

@user-bd2uw1xu9s

5 ай бұрын

@@markwardonwords Wikipedia, so it's not a front-line source for me. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Koine_Greek. I've not pursued further, although i do know there are pockets of archaic Greek around the Black Sea, i used to interface with one such from Trebizond. I've wondered if a Koine pocket survived.

@user-bd2uw1xu9s

5 ай бұрын

@@markwardonwords could you refresh my memory on your KJB web site and where your VLOG is? I have some questions on TR that I would like to send you. How to send to you? May I suggest you number your false-flag videos? I'm trying to make a list of yours to match my list.

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

@@user-bd2uw1xu9s Contact me at byfaithweunderstand.com/contact, and I can share with you a list that another user created but that isn't quite ready for public consumption!

You may talk about it later in the video. But I think “cock” should be added to the list. (Jesus talking to Peter about his denial of Jesus)

@markwardonwords

8 ай бұрын

I think I'd have to have evidence that a significant number of people were not picking up the meaning from context. That could happen. But "the cock crowed" tends to tip people off, I think.

Your last word made me titter. Where I come from ass is always an animal. The other use has an r in it. If I were to use the word in your sense I would have to use an American accent as it is purely American usage. I don't think the KJV translators would be aware of this.

@markwardonwords

Жыл бұрын

Very interesting! And where do you come from?

@johnwaine2332

Жыл бұрын

@@markwardonwords I come from Oswaldtwistle (birthplace of James Hargreaves who invented the spinning jenny and home of the Peel family) but I am exiled to Dundee. Comedians Hugh Laurie and Stephen Fry once did a skit on this (I'll bust your ass) but I don't know if it is up on the internet somewhere. I would be interested to know what the OED has to say about the words.

I see what your saying but there are many places in the Word of God where the author uses corse harsh and icky words and phrases to us today in the New and Old Testament that our modern Bible that i love by the way dont do them justice. Were Paul or Isaiah sinning when they did it? I think not there is a time for harsh or sharp language.

@markwardonwords

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed. Fully.

'Ass' is a problem because of Americans having corrupted the good old English 'arse'. Unfortunately this bast-, sorry, illegitimate usage has been drifting back eastwards across the Atlantic in recent years, possibly being seen as slightly more polite than the British original!

@markwardonwords

3 жыл бұрын

Interesting!

Interesting stuff. Do you really not like the word "whore" though? I think it is a great bible word for vividly showing the disgrace of apostasy and idolatry. I use it on a semi frequent basis (depending on the sermon) in preaching (especially recently as the the new-calvinist and evangelical church is prostituting itself out at an alarming rate to false doctrine and critical race heresy). Ive never once had someone say they were offended by the word. I don't think they should be. Is "prostitute" any better? Or "sodomy" (which really brings to mind some nasty pictures). I agree we should never be crass in our preaching, but we should feel free to use the images and words which the Bible uses. God uses them for a specific purpose, and as long as we are using them for the same purpose I think we are well in line. What are your thoughts Dr. Ward?

@markwardonwords

3 жыл бұрын

I genuinely agree that “whore” is a great Bible word. I don’t shy away from it. I agree completely with your comment! Wow! Constructive engagement!

@DaneKristjan

3 жыл бұрын

Mark Ward I am a capable of discussion ;)

@DaneKristjan

3 жыл бұрын

Mark Ward how do I contact you privately?

There are bad words in other translations as well. For example the nkjv has the word beveled windows in the passage about Solomon building the temple. I don't even know how to pronounce the word beveled. The kjv translates it as narrow windows. Why didn't the nkjv use the simple word narrow.

@markwardonwords

2 жыл бұрын

My friend, I don't deny that there are individual places where particular contemporary translations used more difficult words than did the KJV translators. I do not have time to look right now, but I presume that the NKJV translators disagreed with the rendering "narrow" and felt the word was more specific. But overall, it is impossible to argue that contemporary translations use anything close to the number of dead words and false friends that are now found-because of language change over four centuries-in the King James Version.

Mark, did you say the D-R Catholic Bible was published in 1899?

First; really loving your work here. However, with all due respect, using the phrase "bad words" is in itself not as clear as it should be. What you seem to be talking about are "vulgarities" and the problem, I suspect, goes all the way back in English to the Norman conquest, or the widespread use of Latin. Common people were often identified by their speech; the uses "vulgar" or "common" words while the educated elites used either French or Latin. Which is why there are perfectly acceptable words to describe things like prostitution, illegitimacy, bodily functions, etc., which all have French or Latin origins. Anglo-Saxon, monosyllabic gutterals on the other hand are socially unacceptable. Illustrative anecdote; being stationed in England back in the 70's, the local British workers we hired for various tasks, delighted in teaching fresh young American airmen, "English" colloquial words, so we could "fit in." Those words meant nothing to Americans; e.g., bloody, gor-blimey, bit of crumpet, etc. It was only when one met other British people and used those terms, that one realized that they were incredibly offensive - they were vulgarities and it was not even the meaning - it was the words themselves that were offensive. Conclusion; the use of certain "vulgarities" is not inherently a sin - apart from the principles Romans 14 - if it offends others, whether "meat" sacrificed to others or using a "bad" word, then we ought to refrain. Obviously, the principles of Ephesians 4:29/5:4 apply as well but it would take time to exegete to show that "vulgarities" is probably not what is in view here. Thanks again for your presentation; informative and enjoyable!

How are any of these bad words?

@markwardonwords

Жыл бұрын

They’re words I don’t say in my personal life.

@Hanshotfirst6688

Жыл бұрын

@@markwardonwords Well a lot of people don’t use the word “hell” in their personal lives and consider it a curse word. Does that mean that we should remove all instances of “hell” in the Bible?

@markwardonwords

Жыл бұрын

No. It’s clear from context when someone means to curse with “hell” and when they’re talking about the place of eternal punishment. That’s not true with the other words I mention here.

@Hanshotfirst6688

Жыл бұрын

@@markwardonwords But wouldn’t you agree that hell means the exact same thing in both contexts?

@markwardonwords

Жыл бұрын

No. I wouldn’t. In “What the h…” it means something different. You’re mixing up sense and reference.

God does not change neither does His word. People say Jesus Christ as a curse word.

@markwardonwords

2 жыл бұрын

So sad, yes. I hate hearing that precious name taken in vain!

@fluffyyork6911

2 жыл бұрын

@@markwardonwords I grew up believing it was a curse word. Had a turbulent childhood. It took me years before I could say Jesus Christ so I said Christ Jesus instead.

"Ass" is still considered the proper name for a donkey, even though people today use it as a rude word. If someone is going to read the KJV, then they should understand the context of the words being used. If it causes tittering amongst teens, that's on them for their immaturity. What about all the beautiful words in the KJV? Should all of that be rejected because some people might not "get it" the first time they see a "questionable" word? I don't think so.

@markwardonwords

Жыл бұрын

My friend, would you object to a light revision of the KJV that kept the beautiful words but updated the archaic or confusing ones-such as updating “ass” to “donkey”?

@caseyanne967

Жыл бұрын

@@markwardonwords Since so many words in the KJV are archaic, wouldn't it take a lot more than a light revision to make all those changes? Part of what I love about the KJV is the archaic words and the beautiful poetic rhythm of it. When I read the word "ass" in the KJV, I know I'm seeing the word in it's original meaning, which isn't offensive.. Just like the words "Jesus Christ" can be used as a cuss word, but that doesn't mean we remove it from our bibles.

Hello Brother Ward, If we are to abandon the King James, what SINGLE ACCURATE version would you replace it with? This is an essential part of your argument that seems to be lacking. You mentioned, “readability versus accuracy, beauty versus clarity etc.; however, no other singular version is offered. This substitute version should be submitted to the same scrutiny that you have placed on the King James. In this fashion, we can see if there are archaic words, false friends and inaccuracies in the translation that you offer. And if we find such problems, then what? According to your position we would have to abandon that version as well. If no ACCURATE substitute is offered, then it would seem that you are obsessed with the King James Bible and trying to take peoples faith out of their Bible over an issue that could be solved with maybe a hundred footnotes throughout the Bible. I am in no rush, please take your time to answer this concern. Many will not take a stand on a specific version, with exception to Bible publishers selling their own version. I hope that you will. Thank you.

@markwardonwords

3 жыл бұрын

Josh, this is a fair question-but it comes with an implicit presupposition that I'm afraid I have to reject for theological and practical reasons, namely that there has to be one accurate Bible translation in any given language against which all others are judged. This was not the opinion of the KJV translators: "No cause therefore why the word translated should be denied to be the word, or forbidden to be current, notwithstanding that some imperfections and blemishes may be noted in the setting forth of it. For whatever was perfect under the sun, where Apostles or apostolic men, that is, men endued with an extraordinary measure of God’s Spirit, and privileged with the privilege of infallibility, had not their hand?" The KJV translators were willing to call other existing translations "good." They tried to make a "principal good one," yes, but they explicitly deny that their work was perfect. It has, in fact, been revised over the years. The Bible nowhere promises us a perfect Bible translation in any language. And if this is so, then it actually helps to read multiple Bible translations, to gain better insight into what *is* perfect, namely the inspired Hebrew and Greek originals. And this is my practical reason for pushing back against the presupposition you're bringing: thousands of times over 20 years, I have gained better insight into my Bible by reading both formal (literal) and functional (dynamic) translations. For years, for example, I read "The lines are fallen unto me in pleasant places," and aside from the minor readability problem of "are fallen" instead of "have fallen," I think that is a perfectly accurate translation. But I didn't realize I misunderstood it until I read the slightly more dynamic translation in the NIV: "The boundary lines have fallen for me in pleasant places" (going from memory here). You can rip my NIV, ESV, CSB, NLT, KJV, NKJV, NASB, and NET Bible out of my cold, dead hands. I'm serious. These are important Bible study tools for me, because though in a very real sense they are all "the Bible," in another sense they are perspectives on the Bible. The ultimate authority is the Hebrew and Greek. It is so appealing-I get it-to want to have a *perfect* standard, in English, for doctrine and life. But God has not given us this, and we must be content with what he has given without demanding more, demanding "better." I'd urge you to read Dave Brunn's One Bible, Many Versions. He shows that no translation lives up to its press. They all use literal and dynamic renderings at times, including the KJV. Not everyone has to read as many translations as I do, but English speakers, in my judgment, truly *ought* to read at least one more literal Bible and one less literal one on a regular basis. I do tend to favor the more literal for church ministry to middle class people. But I urge my own church to read other translations. We have an embarrassment of riches. People who don't read Greek and Hebrew-which is most people, in God's good providence-sometimes fear that if two translations differ, they won't know what to think. So I'm slowly working on a book that will help them. And I still urge them: try to see the translations as complementary as often as possible. When they can't be seen that way-as in 1 Cor 7 (the "virgin daughter" passage) in the NIV vs. the ESV-you've got a good clue that you need to go to commentaries and other Bible study helps.

People this man is spreading lies beware

@markwardonwords

14 күн бұрын

Please interact with the arguments made in the video.