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@nicablackshotsea5825

Жыл бұрын

Love your Video. Keep Up the great work.

@NeatNit

Жыл бұрын

I have heard from unreliable sources that Manscaped products are actually the worst of their kind. Buyers, do some research before you buy! Edit: it's not a scam, they just pour much more money into marketing than their products, and it shows.

@burningSHADOW42

Жыл бұрын

The add was really badly positioned...

@Siriussky22

Жыл бұрын

It wasn’t really that bad

@rubetz528

Жыл бұрын

Really, manscaped is the one shill I don't like around YT. Why? Just because advertising to shave my privates in the middle of a documentary feels disturbing.

You didn't mention one key fact. The Master of the Anderson risked HIS life, crew, and ship, to go searching for the Fitz after she went down. He made it to Whitefish Bay. Reported her missing, then turned around and went back out. Into a November Storm. On Lake Superior. That had claimed the Pride of the American Side.

@TheUnflushedToilet

Жыл бұрын

The Anderson and the William Clay Ford were the only ships that risked going out to Superior to look for the Fitz in the initial search. It wouldn't be until the next day(s) when there would be more ships to join the search.

@nmccw3245

Жыл бұрын

She’s definitely the most respected boat on the lakes.

@burntsider8457

Жыл бұрын

When asked to go back out, Captain Carlson told the Coast Guard, "if I go out there could be two ships on the bottom." But he did anyway.

@MC-810

Жыл бұрын

@@vyvianalcott1681 Don’t be an immature troll. I for one had no idea that the Henry Clay Ford was involved in the search. So I thank TUT for stating that fact. Edit: I mistakenly called the vessel Henry Clay; should be William Clay Ford.

@FriedrichHerschel

Жыл бұрын

@@vyvianalcott1681 And what exactly did you add to the conversation except toxicity?

Most people underestimate the power of the Great Lakes. They are more like inland seas that fresh water lakes. The waves on the great lakes have a much shorter frequency than in the ocean making it harder to ride them out.

@emusunlimited

Жыл бұрын

Yep, and I believe (not sure on this) Superior has the shortest of frequencies. You see a lot of 3 sisters out there.

@alexander10000000

Жыл бұрын

As a Great Lakes Sailor (engineer) I never ever underestimate the power of the lakes. I've also been on the oceans as well and the Great Lakes are definitely worse.

@noahdoyle6780

Жыл бұрын

My youngest son has spent time up in the Northwoods, Boundary Waters, and on Superior. "The Northwoods and Boundary Waters want you to live, but they want you to work for it. Superior just wants you dead."

@danielkorladis7869

Жыл бұрын

I think it's fair to consider them inland seas.

@somethinglikethat2176

Жыл бұрын

I know I wouldn't have before watching channels like this. For someone with no experience it's easy to look at it's size on a map and not give it much thought.

The Anderson crew were heroes that day, both guiding the Fitzgerald, looking for her after losing contact and leading the hours long search operation after the storm

@insertnamehere313

Жыл бұрын

Quite a few went out to search...not just the Anderson...most of those vessels still sail the lakes today. Salt water vessels really close to the area of the Fitz refused to help

@bjmicha3

Жыл бұрын

@@insertnamehere313 The William Clay Ford was one of those vessels and although she has been long since retired and scrapped the entire wheelhouse was saved and is attached to the Dossin Great Lakes Museum on Belle Isle in Detroit, MI. It is open for the public to explore and see what it would look like on a Great Lakes steamer.

@returnofbillyjack

Жыл бұрын

Maybe we. plural. Should make a song like the Edmond

@spaceflight1019

6 ай бұрын

​@@insertnamehere313In retrospect, the only thing that the other boats accomplished was to place their crews in unnecessarily peril.

@insertnamehere313

6 ай бұрын

@@spaceflight1019 If you was in the freezing water struggling to stay alive..wouldn't you want someone out there trying to help find and rescue you.

Living in Michigan, many children learn about this wreck in school. The lakes have claimed thousands, but gave us a maritime heritage that I've seen light up the eyes of children when they see a tallship set her main or the lights of a freighter steam across the horizon. Tragedies like this become a shared history.

@Le-yd3xz

Жыл бұрын

I remember we had a whole unit about it in 5th. Fun times

@P0KEBLOX

Жыл бұрын

Man I remember these were our favorite our favorite lessons as kids. It probably also helped that at the time I lived and went to school in Sault Ste. Marie letting us imagine how this would happen in more detail as we saw Lakers every day passing through the locks

@commanderfox64

Жыл бұрын

same in Minnesota most be a great lake state thing

@abrahammorrison6374

Жыл бұрын

There is a coloured $20 Canadian coin of the Edmund Fitzgerald. I have two in my private collection and one is for sale.

@Emanresuadeen

Жыл бұрын

I’ve heard that the legend lives on from the Chippewa on down.

I was just on the SS Arthur M. Anderson as 2nd Assistant Engineer and boy is she a strong ship. 70 years old and still keeping up with the much newer ships.

@j.griffin

Жыл бұрын

She was older than the Fitz and was stretched in 1975 so she was actually older AND bigger than the Fitz that night. Her mid-section is soft because of the stretch so she loads about 1,500 tons less cargo than the other big boats at Great Lakes Fleet,Inc.

@alexander10000000

Жыл бұрын

@j.griffin all true. I was just acknowledging the fact that she is old but still keeping up with the big boys. When I was at the throttles, the engines always responded well to everything that was demanded of them.

@alexander10000000

Жыл бұрын

Not to mention that the boilers (my babies) always gave as good as they got.

@j.griffin

Жыл бұрын

@@alexander10000000 Oh,I wasn’t disputing anything. “A man’s got to know his limitations…” -Clint Eastwood As Inspector “Dirty” Harry Callahan in “Magnum Force” The Anderson operates within her limitations- the owners of the Fitz got greedy and raised the load line 3 times. The owners, Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance Company, actually got the U.S. Coast Guard to increase the load line for the Edmund Fitzgerald those three times - in 1969, 1971, and 1973 - to allow her to carry 4,000 tons more than she was originally designed&intended for. These changes allowed for 3 feet, 3.25 inches less minimum freeboard overall. Because of that, the ship’s deck was only 11.5 feet above water and she was considerably overweight, according to her original intended specifications. This made the ship especially sluggish and slower to recover and decreased her buoyancy when facing the waves on that fateful November 10th. The Skipper had already said that she was never the same after that- if she fell off in a heavy head sea they would sometimes have to make a complete 360 to get back on course. She’d just wallow in the troughs between the waves and the waves would just keep pushing her off from recovering her heading. “Prior to the load-line increases she was said to be a ‘good riding ship’ but afterwards, the Edmund Fitzgerald became a sluggish ship with slower response&recovery times. Captain McSorley said he did not like the action of a ship he described as a ‘wiggling thing’ that scared him. Now, the Edmund Fitzgerald's bow hooked to one side or the other in heavy seas without recovering and made a groaning sound not heard on other ships.” It’s common to stretch and refit ships for various reasons- as long as it is done well and they are managed properly everything should be fine. The Anderson is a survivor and has been well taken care of- I believed what you said. I was in no way casting shade on you or that fine,old girl.

@alexander10000000

Жыл бұрын

@j.griffin got ya. Wow, now that is something there about the Fitz. Also, love the Clint Eastwood quote.

My great grandfather was a helmsman on the great lakes for most of his life, and he had a lot of opinions about the Fitzgerald going down. Foremost of this was the stress put on it by the choppiness of the waves on the lake--in the ocean, the waves are bigger than the ships, so you just ride on top--but on the great lakes, the waves are smaller, such that you can have a wave at the front and back of the ship but not at the middle, and vice versa. This causes it to bend one way and the other over and over, and on a welded ship like this it won't cause damage until it just snaps in half.

@twitterpaited

Жыл бұрын

There will be cracking that's almost invisible because it's inside the metal, plus metal fatigue. It stresses the importance of NDT.

@ShortArmOfGod

Жыл бұрын

There's footage of the wreck with many of the hatch clamps undone. Not sheared or broken, just not used. That had quite a lot to do with water getting into the ship.

@Chris_of_Cleveland

Жыл бұрын

@@ShortArmOfGod This seems to be heavily disputed as the reason she went down though. Many former crew members said that the guy in charge of making sure the crew secured all of the hatch clamps took it very seriously and never would have allowed that to happen. Who knows though. 🤷🏼‍♂️

@blockstacker5614

Жыл бұрын

metal fatigue is no joke.

@tgland02494

Жыл бұрын

They have pretty much concluded it wasn’t hatch covers that caused it. But a lot of ppl don’t realize the Fitz had been set for repairs of the keel plates during the off season due to cracks or problems. The Fitz was not considered safe by some of the other people sailing on the boats. Her hull maintenance was not up to par and the boat was somewhat abused trying to keep its records.

As a Michigander, the story of the Fitzgerald is almost legend. Old timers use it as a warning to explain the power of the Lakes. Living on the 3rd coast is interesting, almost everyone is a boater. Outsiders think the Lakes are just big lakes but they are actually inland seas. Events like rogue waves have been recorded, and the storms are no joke. The Fitzgerald is one of over 6000 ships that lay on the muddy bottoms. These bodies of water are not to be taken lightly. For an example of how large they are, Lake St. Claire looks like a swimming pool compared to the Great Lakes and it's still the 15th largest lake in the country...

@danalarose846

Жыл бұрын

Correct. I'm born and raised on Lake Michigan. People come here every year without educating themselves and find out the hard way.

@Kroggnagch

Жыл бұрын

The main problem, speaking as an outsider as I’ve lived in Arizona my whole life, is that they’re named “Lakes” and even tho you see them on a map, rivaling STATES in size, for some reason hearing “lake” at the end puts a damper on guesstimating the size. At least, that’s how I perceive it. But you’re absolutely right, it’s not just a big lake you can hardly see the opposite coast of, you absolutely can not see from one coast to the other side because the damn earth is curved and they’re that big so as you can only see the water.

@25Erix

Жыл бұрын

From what I hear, they're called lakes because they're not saltwater. But yeah, as someone near Lake Erie in Toledo, they're like freshwater inland seas.

@TiffanyL2

Жыл бұрын

@@danalarose846 yes

@stephenp448

Жыл бұрын

​@@Kroggnagch I live on the north shore of Lake Ontario near Toronto. I've flown Cessna 172s along the shoreline, and even from 3000' up you STILL can't see the opposite side of the lake!

The Fitz also needed to go in drydock for repair she was badly neglected, and her sister ship was proof when she went in drydock after the sinking of the Fitzgerald. There's a good interview with the nephew of Ralph Walton and talks about the condition of the edmund fitzgerald when she sank

@ZombieSlayer-dj3wb

Жыл бұрын

And his dad was the 30th crewman but never went on that trip cause the state she was in

@Cadet1008

Жыл бұрын

Fitzgerald was going to be in drydock to be lengthened, like her sistership was.

@tgland02494

Жыл бұрын

The Fitz had already been lengthened. That’s what the issue was with the keel plates. The stress was causing issues with the hull under stress. Most likely the hull was failing and started leaking. So it was just being docked to repaid the hull due to hull being lengthened years prior

@gregblackburn4280

Жыл бұрын

@@tgland02494 I read a book on just that subject. I think it was THE NIGHT THE FITZ WENT DOWN.

@thomasreinker3402

Жыл бұрын

@@tgland02494 the fitz never got lengthened.

I couldn't see this video title without thinking "The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down Of the big lake they called Gitche Gumee The lake, it is said, never gives up her dead When the skies of November turn gloomy"

@wiesejay

Жыл бұрын

Because of this song, I already knew she was carrying 26,000 tons of iron ore

@jackschulte6185

Жыл бұрын

@@wiesejay Mad props to Gordon for getting most of the times right too lol

@sfrsteel

Жыл бұрын

Excellent!

@sfrsteel

Жыл бұрын

@@jackschulte6185 lyricly a masterwork in how to write a song

@davidclark3304

Жыл бұрын

I first heard that song as I was going along on the freeway in the Chicago area. I turned off and stopped on the shoulder to listen to it, and of course later I bought the recording. Being from the Detroit area it rang a bell with me. In the seventies we operated a sailboat on Lake Erie and we'd occasionally see the Fitz going in and out of Toledo. In fact the marine architect who designed the hull was a friend of my father and he gave us a framed blueprint of the ship which my dad still has hung on the wall where he lives.

My deer blind over looks whitefish bay, during the week after it went down. Over 20 ships were still anchored in the bay. Waves at whitefish point we're in the 16-18 foot range and winds were still minimum of 35 mph. The howling sound it made in the woods was deafening. Lake Superior's color changes during these winter storms, it turns a dark black... It is very intimidating, even evil looking.

When the Captain reported he had lost his radar, that was likely due to waves. That would mean that a wave roughly 40 feet high crashed over the bow (the radar was located on top of the bridge, about 39 feet above the water).

@robbhahn8897

4 ай бұрын

Could easily have been an electrical failure of that equipment. Giant waves seem to get the blame for everything these days.

I’m a chief mate on the Great Lakes in the Canadian fleet. I have always had a huge interest in this marine disaster. You did a very good job in explaining the dynamics of this disaster, with theories I do agree with, less the hatch covers being unsecured. I personally feel the hatch covers were secure, and I side with Captain Bernie Cooper, that she bottomed out on the shoal north of Caribou Island. The unsecured hatch cover theory in my opinion is just a cop out for the US Coast Guard.

My Father sailed this route as a wheelsman in the 1920s. He was involved in storms of this nature, always in November. He mentioned an incident where the Engineer threatened to put out the fires in the boilers because waves were pouring into the engine room and scalding the firemen coaling up the fires. That would have been a catastrophic decision. One of his ships, the Mathewston, was hauling wheat from the head of the lakes, and was nicknamed "The Hunchback" due to a warped hull it received during a bad storm. With huge waves that accompany the winds, and my Father often mentioned the "three sisters", the hull can be balancing primarily on one or two waves which works the structure back and forth, and eventual failure of the hull can occur. Respect to the lost sailors.

I grew up in Superior, WI, and one of my earliest memories is the night the Fitzgerald went down. My dad got called into work because of the storm, and I remember my mom following the story on the radio, as she waited for him to get home.

This wreck struck my family pretty hard and I have always wanted to know the answers to these questions. I appreciate you taking the time. Thanks.

May God rest the men (29) that lost their lives when Big Fitz went down. The bodies are still there (except 1 found lying on the lake bottom next to the wreck) still intact due to the cold and lack of bacteria at that depth). The site has been declared a gravesite and no one can go there without government permission. The artist Gordon Lightfoot donated all the proceeds from his song The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald to the families of the men lost in the sinking.

@thedentfamily8467

10 ай бұрын

I luv Gordon likefoot

@TheEmeraldMenOfficial

8 ай бұрын

@@thedentfamily8467He passed away May 1st 2023 and has been buried in his hometown of Orillia, ON

@CJCody2006

8 ай бұрын

I'm convinced the majority of the crew are entombed in the stern. She had accommodations for 36 crew, 10 forward and 26 aft

@dev2410

7 ай бұрын

I was first introduced to the story of the Edmund Fitzgerald by this song I didn't know that he made it as an act of charity it is heartwarming to see people come together in times of crisis

Personally I believe it was a combination of the the load draft being increased, the high seas, and her bottoming out. The captain of the Anderson at the time, Bernie Cooper, was adamite that the only way the Fitz would have lost her railings was if she either stress fractured or bottomed out. The hatch cover theory was also highly frowned upon by other captains, as even if the hatches aren't fully secured, they weigh several tons and would remain firmly on the deck in heavy seas. With any water coming through being minimal to none. My personal take is for one reason or another, Edmund Fitzgerald sustained underwater damage just south of caribou island. She either stress fractured or bottomed out on a shoal. After that point, she started slowly dropping in the water. As the waves rolled up her deck, her bow would end up plunging down into them. Eventually, the inflow of water became too great, she plunged into another wave and never came back up. The first sign to the crew that anything was wrong would've been her impacting the sea floor and the subsequent wall of water smashing through the cabin windows, explaining the lack of a mayday.

@Aengus42

Жыл бұрын

Adamant, not "adamite".

@neilkurzman4907

Жыл бұрын

I wouldn’t discount hatchcover so readily. Apparently even in modern times they are not always secured properly. And sometimes or allowed to rust so the weight of the water can break through them.

@HoshizakiYoshimasa

Жыл бұрын

The fact Arthur B Homer the exact sister ship of the Fitzgerald was scrapped a decade after the Fitzgerald loss despite many millions of dollars spent to lengthen her, leads me to believe stress/hull failure more than shoaling. Lake Fleets knew, and so nobody bought her and they quietly scrapped the Homer blaming the economy and (yet older vessels with smaller cargo capacity were still sailing and the tens of millions spent to lengthen the Homer just years prior)

@thecamocampaindude5167

Жыл бұрын

Your theory is not wrong

@Cadet1008

Жыл бұрын

@@HoshizakiYoshimasa Well, the company that owned the Homer scrapped other ships in their fleet, nearly the same age around the same time, the 1980s was a terrible time for the steel industry, and the numbers have never really recovered since.

The fact the SS Arthur B Homer the exact sister ship of the Edmund Fitzgerald was scrapped a decade after the Fitzgerald loss despite many millions of dollars spent to lengthen her years prior, leads me to believe stress/hull failure more likely than shoaling. Former Fitzgerald crewman Richard Orgel and Red Burgner testified Fitzgerald's hull was "wiggling" too much in bad weather. Even saying Captain McSorley himself was frightened by it sometimes. The Lake Fleets deep down knew there likely was a design flaw, and so nobody bought The Arthur B Homer and they quietly scrapped the Homer blaming the economy. yet older vessels with smaller cargo capacity were still sailing. But who knows? (Shrug)

@Crosshair84

Жыл бұрын

Interesting details I wasn't aware of.

@sylvianapalma958

Жыл бұрын

Huh. I never knew that.

@cludecat7072

Жыл бұрын

the "wiggling" was a fix to the problem that rigid hulled ore freighters had. in storms like the one encountered by the fitz two stiff hulled ships broke up on the surface. the flex allowed the freighters to under take more stress. despite this it was unnerving to sailors who had been on rigid hulled ships before

@hanzzel6086

10 ай бұрын

​@@cludecat7072I don't think crew experienced with this ship would have that problem. Especially when none of them had any complaints about it before the modifications to her waterlines.

@brettfavreify

8 ай бұрын

I absolutely subscribe to the Homer theory. Total cover-up. Examine the Homer's architecture and you'll see the structural failings of the Fitzgerald. But the industry got rid of the evidence. The memos and documented proof are in a vault somewhere.

One of my earliest memories is watching a distressing Edmund Fitzgerald program with my grandparents at the the Great Lakes maritime museum. Now I'm watching your video a few hundred feet from some choppy great lakes waves outside my window! There's something so extremely unsettling about this type of sinking, like the Derbyshire, where the ship just sits lower and lower in the water, waves leaving more and more green water on deck until it's overwhelmed and slips beneath one last time.

I really think the large rogue waves had something to do with it. If they were trully 30 feet tall, and the bow was in a trough, the bow could have been 50-60 feet lower than the stern. With reduced buoyancy from taking in water through the hatches and possibly even shifting cargo, two of those monster waves in succession and slow recovery likely (imo) caused the bow to dive straight to the bottom. I think it came as a shock and in an instant.

@psychologicaltirefire8190

Жыл бұрын

That's basically been my opinion for years now. Big rogue waves, water ingress, and then just plowing into the trough of the next big wave and never popping back up. It makes sense because the ship is broken in two, which likely happened when she finally hit bottom being that she was longer than the water depth.

@bobbamford5207

Жыл бұрын

I agree. Why was this not mentioned?

@446hemi

Жыл бұрын

bottomed out on 6 fathom shoal...thats the cause of it sinking

@cludecat7072

Жыл бұрын

@@446hemi about a minute after fitz left Anderson's radar, three massive rouge waves rolled over Anderson. she likely bottomed out and rode lower and lower and the rouge waves sealed her fate.

@SpartyCubsFan

10 ай бұрын

If I recall correctly, the Anderson reported that 2 rogue waves had just hit her and were heading to the Fitz at 6:46pm, with possibly a 3rd wave. Again, if I’m remembering correctly the Anderson reported that the 2 waves that’d hit her were 30 and 35 feet. I’d also think it likely that a rogue wave or waves knocked out the Fitz’s radar

Great video. Anyone who's never heard, should listen to 'The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald' by Gordon Lightfoot. Amazing song. RIP to the crew of a beautiful ship.

@MC-810

Жыл бұрын

I think that the Gordon Lightfoot's song is why the the Fitz is still widely remembered to this day. The El Faro sank 2015 and it's not as widely remembered. Maybe Gordon can write another song...

@mxg75

Жыл бұрын

The Punch Brothers did a cover of that song recently. It’s haunting, possibly better than the original.

@zaprowsdower3911

Жыл бұрын

@@mxg75 it no where near as good as the original. I have no clue why people like that version so much. It's good but besides the instruments. It's nothing really special that would last the test of time like Gordon Lightfoot song

@davea8346

Жыл бұрын

No, they shouldn't. That song is worse than stabbing an ice pick in your ears.

@davea8346

Жыл бұрын

@@MC-810 Don't encourage hime.

As someone living in Michigan, thank you for highlighting a piece of Great Lakes history

@zaprowsdower3911

Жыл бұрын

Hello fellow michigander

@andrewp6387

6 ай бұрын

Greetings fellow Michiganders

I feel like some gentle Canadian should write a ballad about this event. Could be a winner.

@user-lp7dd7dz9m

27 күн бұрын

Someone who's foot's not too heavy

The Edmund Fitzgerald had accommodations for 36 crew and 4 passengers at the forward and aft ends of the ship on the upper and main decks. McSorley's rooms were on the upper deck just under the bridge. He had a private cabin with his own bathroom plus an office and lounge overlooking the main deck. There were also two double cabins for private guests, each with a private bathroom. Below on the main deck there were 6 more cabins for the deck crew, 3 on each side and each with private bathrooms for the bridge crew. The 3 starboard cabins were singles for the officers, while the 3 port cabins were double cabins for the 3 wheelsmen and 3 watchmen. In between was a rec room. Moving aft, on the upper deck there were 3 dining rooms, each for officers, crew and guests as well as the galley. There were also 4 cabins. The shipkeeper had a single cabin, while the cook, 2 waiters and 3 stewards shared the other 3 double cabins. On the main deck were 12 more cabins. 5 were private cabins for the lead engineers. The other 7 double cabins berthed 5 seamen, 3 firemen, 3 coalpassers and 3 oilers.

@EdA-qh7qr

3 ай бұрын

You sound very familiar with that ship

@CJCody2006

3 ай бұрын

@@EdA-qh7qr I found the deck plans for the ship and I saw how the ship was planned to function. I was surprised to see some of the crew even had their own private bathrooms.

I grew up in Sault Ste. Marie, MI and had the pleasure of knowing the painting-Artist Pat Norton, who lived in a small cottage on the St. Mary's River, down river from the Sault Locks. She paints the freighters steaming by her cottage, including the Edmund Fitzgerald. My sister bought one of her prints of the ship, which Mrs. Norton arranged for Gordon Lightfoot to sign, 1 of only 10, and hangs proudly above her mantle in her Bay City home. We Yoopers have a great deal of respect and reverence for Great Lakes sailors, and by extension, to Gordon Lightfoot's many excellent songs. Rest in Peace Mr. Lightfoot (May 1, 2023) and thank you for your contribution to American music culture and the immortal dignity of of the story sung in the The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald.

My grandfather drove a tanker truck on the north shore of Lake Superior. Fitzgerald didn’t start running on fuel oil, but it was converted later in its career. My grandpa often had to delay dinner because “The Fitz was in” and he had to fill it with fuel oil. They lived on the lake and my grandmother described the night with “like the devil himself was outside”. My mom had a school classmate whose father went down on it.

One of my next door Neighbors husbands friend was the second Stewart for the Fitzgerald when she went down on that fateful day, his name was Allen G. Kalmon, the Fitzgerald has always fascinated me especially as somebody who has lived by the Great Lakes all my life. I may not be a Michigander or Minnesotan since I live in Wisconsin, but I’ve gone to superior since I was little and the Fitzgerald will always be a topic of great interest, especially since it was made in Wisconsin.

I gotta tell ya, I grew up a mile from the Pacific ocean. I watched the sunset on the beach everyday from my high school job. You know what that gave me? A refusal to go out into big water. I don't foresee me, ever, getting on a seaworthy vessel for the entire of my life and yet I watch your videos as soon as I see the notification, I don't even scroll past it, it's an immediate click. So thank you and well done mate.

Babe wake up, new Casual Navigation video just hit!

I can only imagine how scary it would be to watch your ship plough so hard and so deep into the water that it touches the bottom…

@TrickedZap

Жыл бұрын

But I looked it up and it was 530 feet deep so how could it have touched the bottom then?

@HeadHoncho727

Жыл бұрын

Its way too fuckin deep to it to touch bottom. Wake the hell up🤣

@callsignapollo_

Жыл бұрын

​@TrickedZap she was just shy of 730ft long. The rear 200ft of her wouldve still been above water when the bow struck bottom Not long enough for any crew in the rear to have a chance, but maybe just long enough to know they were doomed

@bobanppvc

9 ай бұрын

​@@callsignapollo_bullshit...That would make sense if it touched ground flat...

@McLarenMercedes

5 ай бұрын

@@callsignapollo_ "she was just shy of 730ft long. The rear 200ft of her wouldve still been above water when the bow struck bottom" Sure, IF she was perfectly *vertical* when this happened. 90 degrees angle. In what universe would she suddenly go straight down like a spike?? Because even if you use a highly unusual and improbable 45 degrees angle then she'd have to be *750ft* long and that's counting the stern being barely above water. The pythagorean theorem is highly useful. Some seem to have forgotten about it once they left school. Ships having their backs snapped is nothing new or unusual. Especially if the ship carries a heavy load and hasn't been properly maintained. I'd say the Edmund Fitzgerald buckled immensely under the high waves. The rear bulkhead simply gave away when the bow and stern were lifted, while the middle part sagged down from an insane load. *Snap* Game over.

A fact I haven't seen mentioned in the prior comments (granted I might've missed it): the Edmund Fitzgerald was one of the first Great Lakes freighters to have a welded hull instead of a riveted one. Riveted hulls can flex more in rough seas whereas welded hulls are more apt to snap. I've read that the Fitz was due to have repairs made to its hull before the sailing season; but, they were postponed because there were plans to lengthen it during that winter's layup ('75-'76). Interestingly; the Edmund Fitzgerald had a sister ship, the SS Arthur B. Homer, that was built the same way, with welds instead of rivets. It actually was lengthened that winter, which was not a cheap thing to do, but then was suddenly retired only five years later and scrapped sometime in the '80s. For comparison; the Arthur M. Anderson, the ship that was selling with the Fitz the night it sank, was six years older at the time of the incident, yet is still in service today.

@CrimeVid

Жыл бұрын

Several lengthened freighters have snapped in half at sea, it seems that inadequate stringers were installed.

A truly sad tragedy, the lake takes without a trace. However because of this tragedy we have one of the greatest folk songs ever wrote.

I could be wrong, but I believe a heard on a podcast that the railing that had broken isn't solid the way it was in this animation. It's actually long steel cable and the 'hogging' caused it to exceed its length and snap.

We'll never know for sure, but a couple key factors or comments not considered was Bernie Cooper saying he had 2 massive waves roll over him from behind and heades towards the Fitz. Cooper believed it was those two waves that did they final deed. Also the Fitzgerald is nearly 200 feet longer than the depth of the water she rest in. Its highly possible that she augured her bow which would be a sudden stop, the stern would have been out of the water almost 200 feet and Still moving! The boat most likely snapped at that moment, having the bow stopped and on the bottom while the stern moving and the mid section snapped, most likely where she was weakened. It would have been one load sound. I remember talking to a Canadian man that lived along shore east of where she went down say he heard what sounded like a metal shopping mall being torn apart. Like a thousand dinosaurs screaming. What was it? RIP crew.

They might have split up or they might have capsized They may have broke deep and took water And all that remains is the faces and the names Of the wives and the sons and the daughters

The story I read about the Three Sisters is that after they rolled up the stern of the AA Captain Cooper got on the radio and warned Captain McSorley that they were coming. Cooper's radar was periodically losing contact with the EF due to the weather, but the EF went down in the time it took for the radar to make one revolution.

The eastern end of Lake Superior is notorious for monstrous seas for a specific reason. Most storms and gales sweep over the lake from west to east, churning a lot of energy into the water. As they move east and the Michigan and Ontario shorelines get closer together, that energy not only has less room to move around but it actually bounces off the coastlines, causing wave action from 3 different directions.

I was born and raised near the huron coast in Michigan. Its fun to show someone from a different state or country a great lake. They never get over not being able to see the other side because of the earths curvature. The shear size only then starts to sink in.

I tend not to believe the idea that some of the clamps were insecure. No sailor on the Great Lakes would be caught dead leaving a clamp insecure in November.

The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down Of the big lake they called Gitche Gumee The lake, it is said, never gives up her dead When the skies of November turn gloomy With a load of iron ore twenty-six thousand tons more Than the Edmund Fitzgerald weighed empty That good ship and true was a bone to be chewed When the gales of November came early The ship was the pride of the American side Coming back from some mill in Wisconsin As the big freighters go, it was bigger than most With a crew and good captain well seasoned Concluding some terms with a couple of steel firms When they left fully loaded for Cleveland And later that night when the ship's bell rang Could it be the north wind they'd been feelin'? The wind in the wires made a tattle-tale sound And a wave broke over the railing And every man knew, as the captain did too T'was the witch of November come stealin' The dawn came late and the breakfast had to wait When the gales of November came slashin' When afternoon came it was freezin' rain In the face of a hurricane west wind When suppertime came, the old cook came on deck sayin' "Fellas, it's too rough to feed ya" At seven PM, a main hatchway caved in, he said "Fellas, it's been good to know ya" The captain wired in he had water comin' in And the good ship and crew was in peril And later that night when his lights went outta sight Came the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald Does any one know where the love of God goes When the waves turn the minutes to hours? The searchers all say they'd have made Whitefish Bay If they'd put fifteen more miles behind her They might have split up or they might have capsized They may have broke deep and took water And all that remains is the faces and the names Of the wives and the sons and the daughters Lake Huron rolls, Superior sings In the rooms of her ice-water mansion Old Michigan steams like a young man's dreams The islands and bays are for sportsmen And farther below Lake Ontario Takes in what Lake Erie can send her And the iron boats go as the mariners all know With the gales of November remembered In a musty old hall in Detroit they prayed In the maritime sailors' cathedral The church bell chimed 'til it rang twenty-nine times For each man on the Edmund Fitzgerald The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down Of the big lake they called Gitche Gumee Superior, they said, never gives up her dead When the gales of November come early-some Canadian legend

@davidpuddicombe7359

6 ай бұрын

Rest in peace Gordon Lightfoot

My personal theory for this wreck stems from the fact that it was so...abrupt. They had no time to jump out or to get to the lifeboats. Taking into account the fact that the wreck is sitting at a depth of 530 feet, which is shallower than she was long, I think that one of the rouge waves came over the bow and forced the bow down. Bow hits the floor of the lake, causes the stern to torque off, accounting for how it's split up. This also gives account for how quick it was, and how no distress call was given. *shrug* This is just my opinion through.

@446hemi

4 ай бұрын

agree...but what was the beginning of the end was it hit 6 fathom shoal at caribou island around 310..315 pm

@waynecoulter6761

3 ай бұрын

The main theory has it that she grounded at 6 fathom shoal... that's why she was taking water. The more likely cause of the sinking was not that she was taking huge waves over the bow, but that the waves were rolling up the stern, forcing the stern up and forcing the bow underwater. A big enough wave would force the bow under and the weight of the ship would drive her into the bottom. The shifting weight of the 26,000 tons of taconite ore basically blew the ship in half when the bow crashed into the bottom.

We visited Sault Saint Marie, MI last summer and saw the Edmund Fitzgerald's two lifeboats on display. I hardly ever hear them mentioned. With modern forensics I would imagine they contain clues. One was literally sheared in half! They were badly mangled.

@cludecat7072

Жыл бұрын

ripped free from their davits most likely. no bodies were recovered on the surface which is unusual if they had made an attempt to launch the lifeboats.

@chornobylreactor4

9 ай бұрын

The poor little things 😢 😭 the lifeboats didn't deserve that fate rip in boat heaven

You should cover another Great Lakes ship that suffered a similar fate called the SS Daniel J Morrell that broke in half just a few years prior in 1966 the sinking was gathered in great detail by the only survivor accounting what he saw saying that when the ship broke up he and three others jumped on a raft and the bow sunk but the stern actually kept sailing about 5 miles past the bow before sinking it would be absolutely horrific to see the back half of your ship sail off into the stormy night with all the lighting still on

@446hemi

4 ай бұрын

the fitz didnt break in half on the surface

@nathanlynn7374

4 ай бұрын

@@446hemi dude I wasn’t talking about the fitz and besides both the morell and fitz broke in half now not exactly the same way but they did break in two the similarities arise from that they both split in two not how they did

Super cool to have you cover a ship I've heard so much about and is local

Rest in peace, Gordon Lightfoot! Your song will live on in Minnesota!

I like the "twist/flex" theory, that the hull could just not take anymore flexing and broke apart. The FItz was the biggest for her time. The longer you make a stick the easier it is to snap it in two, coupled with the larger waves she was ridding. It makes a lot of sense

Maritime Horrors covered this and according to former crew testimony and previous CG inspections, she wasn't in the best shape by the time she went down. Although she's only one of many bulk carriers that have broken in half on the Great Lakes. Being long and skinny while carrying such heavy cargo in such rough waters seems to have that effect.

Even though "lakers" such as the Fitz have had careers that have lasted over half a century (the Arthur M. Anderson is still working), a large part of that longevity is based on how well the ship is taken care of. The Fitz was pushed hard throughout her time in service--breaking her own records for individual loads carried, and loads carried in a season--and had more than her fair share of hard hits with piers, and the walls of the locks. You can only push things--and people--so hard for so long, before they fail.

I was in the merchant navy for twenty years and always feel for the lost crews and their families when I read these accounts. It's even worse when the actual cause has never been determined as it means there could be other crews in danger of meeting the same fate.

The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down...

You make SUCH high quality content. Great jobs and thank you, keep it up!

Sailors had commented that after her load line was increased, that instead of shedding water quickly (like she had done since she was built) the Fitz struggled as water slowly left her main deck. Also, it is possible, that even though she cleared 6 fathom shoals, the wave action could have caused her to "hog". (Similar wave action sank the Moran) So, a weaken hull, from the hog, followed by the 3 sisters that hit the Anderson which was behind the Fitz, probably sank her, especially if one of the waves was amidships and another wave shoved her stern up..... Her stern is upside down on the bottom so obviously it came loose about the same time as the bow slammed into the bottom. One of the debates about her sinking is exactly when the aft quarter to a third of the ship broke off. Part of the problem is that the section we need to see suffered a catastrophic failure, and is now sheets of metal under several 1,000s tons ore!

Woke up to see this video posted and was NOT disappointed. Great video

I had a 24 feet long by 16.5 inches wide kayak. I had it out on Lake Ontario not to far from shore ie. less than a quarter of a mile. Just for fun as an experiment I allowed a fair bit of water to come into the boat. When paddling into a wave it was very difficult to get the bow to come back up again and to make that a bit easier I had to bend my back rearwards and lay almost flat along the rear deck. Being that the Fitz's captain had radioed in that the had water coming in, and that the sinking was very sudden (or the radio gear was no longer capable of sending) I too think that the Fitz nosedived into a large wave and then was driven under by a large or series of large waves from astern.

I remember that storm. I was at, a lake front cottage, in Tobermory Ontario at the time. Even though Lake Superior was 200 kilometres north west of were I was, the storm very severe with extremely high winds and heavy rain. The next day we heard on the radio that the Edmund Fitzgerald sank. It was such a bad storm were I was, I can't imagine how bad it was on the lake.

I suggested this almost 2 years ago. Thank you for finally making this video; I understand you may not have seen my comments, but as a lake-state resident, this means a lot to me. Probably means a lot to the families as well.

There is no T in Michigan. It is not mitch-Ih-gun but mish-Ih-gun

Absolutely fascinating! I had no idea about the history and mystery surrounding the SS Edmund Fitzgerald. This video really brings to light the tragedy that occurred and the unanswered questions that still remain. Well done!

@CrewGuyPJ

Жыл бұрын

if you want accuracy, search YT using "Edmund Fitzgerald Documentary 1995 Excellent" It lays it all out from the people who were there and not a 40+ years later guess with inadaquate knowledge and incorrect opinions.

My third grade teachers dad helped look for the Edmund Fitzgerald that night. I remember he came into our class to tell us about it. I don’t remember too much but it was one of the most interesting story I’ve ever heard. Rip to all 29 on board

All I know is, I couldn't possibly imagine what it must've been like to be on that ship, being above water, then within a second immediately being under and not coming back up. 😱

I grew up in that area an watching the storms come in across Lake Superior. They were terrifying and exciting and if Ihad not seen them with my own eyes, I would never believe that such a force was possible from a lake. As an adult I have seen 2 hurricanes, one in Florida and one Mississippi, and I spent time in the North Sea duiring winter. Nothing compared to the ferocity of the waves during Lake Superior storms. They need to be witnessed to be believed.

I think you're pretty much spot on, the Anderson mentioned being concerned that those 3 Waves may have cought up to her. And in a following see with the bow riding low and listing that's dangerous enough, then while trying to navigate All of that it's possible a rouge wave caused by shoreline rebound pushed the bow down even more. If you've seen pictures you'll notice the visor on the pilot house bent down and I believe that can only happen with a wave breaking over it.

It’s crazy how violent the waves can get on these lakes.

I’ve seen what superior is like during a heavy gale and it’s no playground, these are rough fast moving rouge waves. Considering no radio distress signal was sent. It was quick and catastrophic and the fitz was swamped by a rogue wave and took a nose dive, before the force of the waves at the stern literally snapped it in half like a piece of celery

I adore this channel. I even find the way he manages to mispronounce nearly every US place name utterly charming^^

I believe that the ship cargo holds not being completely filled, because of the high specific weight of the iron ore, allowed the cargo to roll over one side - while the ship herself was rolled by the waves. And the ship laying on one side caused it to sink. Whatever the cause, it is a sad story of bad luck. Thank you for telling. Regards, Anthony

@timengineman2nd714

Жыл бұрын

Or, since there were no real bulkheads dividing the main cargo hold (as in just 1), it is possible that the 3 sisters caused the ore to shift forward and cause the plunge....

@signolias100

Жыл бұрын

@@timengineman2nd714 the fitz three holds, thus 4 bulkheads one on each end and two splitting the holds. the arthur m anderson however has 5 holds thus 6 bulkheads (one on each end and 4 in between). the Fitz's bulkheads were not water tight though...

@timengineman2nd714

Жыл бұрын

@@signolias100 Also, from what I understand, they were more of a divider than a true bulkhead able to withstand shifting cargo.

@signolias100

Жыл бұрын

@@timengineman2nd714 they were suppose to be true non water tight bulkheads. That is not to say the two bulkheads at the ends of the cargo area weren't water tight per the blueprints. From how I understand it though the two dividing bulkheads were not water tight. None of them were on those ore haulers at the time. The biggest issue is that the holds were massive . The Fitz was much larger than the Anderson, but had less holds than the Anderson . Another thing I am unsure of is could the ore the was carrying undergo a phenomenon called liquefaction? This is a dangerous situation in bauxite haulers.

@timengineman2nd714

Жыл бұрын

@@signolias100 From my understanding (reading various articles) the ore could soak up water (it was iron so basically turning into rust) but I don't think it could liquify. However, it could shift and take out what some called dividers (i.e. the intermediary non-watertight bulkheads) and shift forward preventing the Fitz from recovering from her bow being shoved under, and then her hitting bottom while her stern was in the air (lifted out of the water by the wave). Also, she could have hogged without hitting at 6 fathom shoals! There's a video about the SS Moran (I don't remember the spelling of that ship's name) where she was hit with a wave that basically lifted her midships and left both the bow and the stern in too little water (due to troughs) to support them. Then as the waves moved forward (the were coming from astern like what happened to the Fitz when she sank) 2 waves supported Moran (Morran?) bow and stern but basically left her midships unsupported. She too sank in a bad storm....

Grew up in Wisconsin. We were always told the rogue wave is what did her in. 70+ foot wave hit her head on and it basically was suspended between the swells (backside of the wave and the secondary smaller wave) after making it through the wave. Basically she got suspended in a "U" with the center of the ship being suspended with no support causing it to snap.

@cludecat7072

Жыл бұрын

if you look at the wreck and how close the bow and stern are as well as a portion of the spar deck missing, and the fact no distress call was sent and that she vanished so quickly, it is nearly impossible that she broke up on the surface

Great video! The Edmund Fitz has always been intriguing to me, ever since I was a kid and first heard about it. Very interesting and in depth video, totally enjoyed. Thanks!

Cookie knew what happened At seven PM, a main hatchway caved in, he said "Fellas, it's been good to know ya"

My dad was stationed on the USCG Woodrush when they went out after the Fitzgerald and he at minimum followed the investigation, he said that the bow of the Fitzgerald was driven 28 feet into the mud. I can’t remember if he thought the Three Sisters waves was possibly the best theory to explain it diving into the mud.

@CrewGuyPJ

Жыл бұрын

He would have been under the command of Capt Hobaugh, who gave a perfect description of the conditions during the search. Ive personally seen the WR many times on vacations to Mackinac. Ive never been able to imagine that boat doing a roll to 50 degrees on the day they were searching for Fitz survivors.

@anonymous.nobody

Жыл бұрын

@@CrewGuyPJ Yeah, my dad had said the conditions were really bad on the lake. I have seen the lake with what I thought was bad conditions but it probably didn't come close to that storm.

the song about the Edmund Fitzgerald is so emotional and makes me think on how scared the sailors must have been

I remember that night vividly. I was going to college in Sault Ste Marie, Ontario. My girlfriend and I caught the bus which took us into the down town area. As it drove along, the wind was breaking windows along the street. The few people that had to walk anywhere were leaning forward as much as possible in order to not get blown off their feet. Changing buses, we really felt it, the terminal was pretty tiny and there were hordes of people. When the bus got to our street, the driver actually stopped outside our front door as my girlfriend was still kinda wobbly after an accident a couple weeks before. I miss that town, and the friendly people there. RIP to the crew of the Edmond Fitzgerald.

Hey I love your videos and here’s another great one, but I do have some tiny complaints, over in the Great Lakes area we call it “tack”a night and Michigan sounds like MISH again thanks so much keep up the great work

Apparently she had a sister ship, ARTHUR B. HOMER. It would have been interesting to see if there were any problems with her. I assume someone did a study. I often think how three of the four navy collier's PROTEUS class ships mysteriously disappeared and the fourth one was converted to the first US aircraft carrier and was scuttled by her crew. There was likely a fatal design error or a free surface problem in that class.

Great video! I hope to see more videos on the lake freighters of the Great Lakes. Especially the big three shipwrecks, Carl D Bradley, and Daniel J Morrell, and this video being the Fitz.

She broke because she hit Hard, bow first on the lake floor. The winds came up, lake got rough, water coming in through leaky hatches (due to ? ), the bow went under, and it dove deep into water. This happened very quickly. The bow gouged a hole in the floor of the lake. I was told by a friend of mine, a government employee "Larry" who dove on the ship to investigate.

Please do more videos on the Great Lakes! 😃

I have a picture hanging up of the Carl D Bradley, which was also found split in two. That’s another interesting story, because there was a huge court case over weather the sinking was an Act of God or not, with the company that owned the vessel trying to claim that it was so they wouldn’t have to compensate family members of the victims, but they eventually settled with the families

@signolias100

Жыл бұрын

the bradley was in extremely bad shape though and shouldn't have deviated course to try to do another run. had the bradley continued on with it's normal plans there is a chance the bradley wouldn't have sunk.

@tgland02494

Жыл бұрын

The owners of these boats often abuse them and don’t do repairs as they should due to profit margins. Money before safety

@signolias100

Жыл бұрын

@@tgland02494 I am pretty sure that has changed. For example the Arthur M. Anderson which was built in 1952 is still in service. This makes her 71 years old. Your statement was true in the past, but today's standards makes neglecting the great lakes freighters a risky proposition.

@chornobylreactor4

9 ай бұрын

​@@tgland02494 it also could get the boats killed

Great post my friend. I always enjoy tuning into your newest post. 🌞🌴⛵️

FINALLY!!! Been requesting this one for YEARS!!!!

Great video, just for future reference "Taconite" is pronounced "Tak o nite" incase you do a video on the Daniel J Morrell or similar.

Let me interrupt this solemn and serious video and talk about Manscape

@MrQueso6191

Жыл бұрын

Don't forget the moons in the ad forming a perfect cock and balls

Another excellent video, as with the MV Derbyshire. I once had to do a presentation on Derbyshire, and it was a tragic tale for sure! I enjoy your videos on these wrecks though, especially with the explanations of what could have happened.

I have always been interested in the different ways Fitz could have sank none theory is exactly as shown, that the bow could have impacted the bottom while the stern was still on the surface. Thanks for the example showing exactly this

@Casual Navigation I have always been a fan of your vids, can you please share which Programme you use to produce your animations? Thank you

Maybe I didn't hear you mentioned it but one possibility would be that the cargo shifted too much, especially since the ship reported a list.

Your channel is just great man, keep up the good work!

Something I’ve recently learned about is a phenomenon called liquefaction that will occur in certain types of cargo. Certain dry and even metals will have a condition where the liquid will shake it and cause it to change from a solid mass capable of being walked upon to a suspension that would allow a person to sink into it. As it does it allows the whole mass to readily shift in the hold. If the vents were dislodged by waves flowing along the deck then with enough water intrusion some of the forward holds could have allowed the ore to shift forward enough to prevent recovery. I don’t believe it broke up until the bow struck the bottom since the ship was longer than the water was deep. Because of this the engine would cause the propeller to constantly drive the bow into the bottom. Once it struck hard it would have buckled the hull and once the stern broke completely the torque would have caused the stern to capsize. I base this on pictures taken of the bow where the steel was buckled outward above the trough it created. Since the hull was steeply inclined all of the cargo was shifted forward causing all the weight to blow the plates outward between the ribs forward. Liquefaction explains the nose dive, and the bow hitting the bottom explains the breakup. With this theory it simplifies the combination of events needed to lose buoyancy. I also hadn’t heard of vents instead of hatch covers opening up along with lowering in the water. Reduced freeboard increases the risk of mishaps. Altering a ship’s design usually doesn’t have a good outcome.

I agree with your person opinion that it was a combination of events that leads to the ship and its crews unfortunate end

I had a friend who was part of the SAR, and looked for her. I remember the news coverage about her loss.

I have previously asked for things on the Great Lakes, because as someone who knows all about them, I think it is great to see others learning about the rich history of our amazing Great Lakes. I was not displeased with this. There was much important info left out, but still great.

@DraigBlackCat

Жыл бұрын

What was left out? I'm a land lubber from the UK and only about 7 years ago heard of this sinking via the song. It is a haunting tune but a bit of an annoying ear worm that keeps the tale niggling at the back of my mind. My late Father-in-law was a Chief Engineer on Shell Tankers so I wish I'd got to look at this with him. I think it is amazing at the difference in the available technology of the 70's, when he retired, compared with today. I think what keeps the story in people's minds is the lack of any conclusive reason for the sinking and don't the owners refuse any proper investigation of the wreck? If so then there is always a suspicion of a cover-up.

@FriedrichWilhelmViktorAlbert

Жыл бұрын

@stephenpayton4222 well, I can't exactly go through the things left out, as they are mostly small fast facts that just make it all the more interesting, however, I think you should check out a good documentary I know of, it's a 1995 documentary from the Television show Discovery Sunday. It too has some inaccuracy, but it lets in some great info for someone such as yourself. Anyhow, it's a topic worth researching, and there is plenty of good things to find out, if there is anything you would like to know in specific, let me, Perhaps I can tell you, anyway, cheers, mate.

I had a relative who was a merchant seaman and served on the Fitz his hypothesis (and some old time Lorain Ohio shipyard workers )the ship was was originally built with old style rivet technology...with rivets you can break and pop some rivets in a plate and the plate still holds and flex the ship would still maintain its sea worthyness but leak a bit ...in the late 60s or can't remember maybe early 70s the Fitz was put into the Amship shipyards in Lorain Ohio... CUT IN HALF ... and the hull was lengthened, and a conveyor belt self unloading system installed...(the old time hulett unloaders around the great lakes were being phased out and the new ore carriers were being built as self unloaders ) The new hull in the middle of ship was of WELDED PLATES, not riveted...so when the ship is in heavy seas flexing the welded section would presumably flex and stress differently...as I mentioned before rivets could break due to flexing activity and with so many rivets in a plate it could lose many and still maintain its sea worthyness, however if a major welded seam fails the whole weld may be compromised, so you get the picture. Also the welded hull area would be less flexible due to its nature of construction...This was the concensus of the theory on why the ship broke in half during the storm by my old seadog relative and 3 shipyard worker buddies over beers at Mangines Cafe across from the shipyard in Lorain Ohio one blustery winter night shortly after the disaster...

Well researched and presented. Why would a trailing sea cause a ship to roll rather than pitch?

Amazing how even lakes that are a fraction of the size of the mighty oceans can drag huge vessels to their graves god rests the souls of the Edmund Fitzgeralds crew,good thing the Author M Anderson is still in service BTW great artwork

@Azivegu

Жыл бұрын

Having spent much time on and around Lake Superior, I can tell you these are not simple lakes. They have tides because of differences in air pressure on either side of the lake. The waves can be massive. The fact that it is fresh water means it is also less buoyant. There is a theme that being a sailor on the great lakes can be a much more harrowing time compared to their seaborne brothers.

@jasonreed7522

Жыл бұрын

Having grown up in the St. Lawrence valley, i have no doubt that these lakes are every bit as powerful as the ocean. Even tiny lakes like Cranberry lake (about 5sqmi) can produce 3ft waves with whitecaps (rolling) on a windy day making it unsafe (at least very unpleasant) to be on in a boat sized for the lake. The St. Lawrence river itself is about as wide as a typical lake except its very straight and generally aligned with the prevailing winds, it has a swift current and the combined wakes of various small boats and the cargo ships can make it quite choppy even on a good day. During a storm it can definitely make some nasty waves. (Although a cargo ship would probably be more scared of all the rocks & wrecks and getting pushed out of the channel and grounding in a storm more than the waves on the river. The great lakes themselves are 1000% terrifying in a storm, very deep, very cold, and larger than some states so the wind has lots of space to build up big waves and windspeed. Plus Erie and Ontario are aligned to the prevailing winds which means in the late fall & winter they just constantly dump lake effext snow on the Buffalo and Watertown areas respectively. (And lake effect always starts falling over the lake and contiues onto shore, and anyone who has driven in lake effect can tell you it drops visibility to 0 so its probably worse than fog for a ship to be caught in. And as i final note, flooding and storms can drag all sorts of crap out i to the lakes like trees and docks, i don't know how bad it is for a cargoship to hit a dock but one will certainly ruin your 18ft fiberglass pleasure boat. The lakes are amazing but they are more akin to freshwater inland seas than what normal people consider a lake. (They are basically the Med but colder and drinkable)

@nathanlerma9891

Жыл бұрын

I was raised in south Texas very close to the Gulf of Mexico and haven't even experienced a lake bigger than a football field so I suppose if I ever do travel to a great lake I best take your advice

@suzannee6673

Жыл бұрын

They aren't lakes. They're inland seas. They were just poorly named.

@nathanlerma9891

Жыл бұрын

@suzannee6673 maybe they should be called inland seas cause when you hear a lake swallowed a ship as big as the Fitz you get a more confusing picture when you don't know the actual story

You showed the correct wave and wind direction. However right after when talking about the Three Sisters, the three big waves that nearly caused the Arther M Anderson to broach and capsize, you show them hitting from the bow when they were from the stern. It must also be mentioned that while the Big Rollers where from the stern the echo effect of the lakes confined space was making for a confused Sea effect with some waves coming from the south and some from the East. Three captains including the skipper of the Aurther M Anderson, as well as some top navel Salvage experts all said that the only thing that would account for Nun of the crew even getting off the ship and how fast it sank was that the three big rouges hit her One lifting her stern shifting the already heave bow lode and then the second pushed her bow under, allowing the smaller but still large confused waves to pile on to her already diving bow, then the third caused the ship to plunge or Submarine and as she did the stern would have twisted and separated from the stress as it lifted. Her Crew would have never had a chance to get out and the entire ship would have been under water in the three minutes needed to explain why Auther M Anderson who passed over the exact spot not five minutes later seen no sign of her. As someone who has worked the rough seas of the Baring Sea for most of my life, I know how ships react to a fallowing sea. Only this explains how they would have been caught so unprepared and would not have sent off some message or had time to get over the side. Might I suggest you have a listen to this as well, It's the radio traffic from that night after the Anderson reported her missing. Its eerily haunting. kzread.info/dash/bejne/iWWasbmiYNfLmbw.html

You failed to mention the most obvious possibility. The wind and waves were being driven by the high northwest winds which meant that the Fitz was taking waves up the stern. As those massive rogue waves hit, the stern would raise first, driving the Fitz's bow underwater. The theory is that one of those waves was so large that it lifted the stern high enough and drove the Fitz's bow under and she struck bottom, the sheer weight of the load of Taconite ore (pronounced Takonite) basically overloaded and blew the ship in half by the sheer weight of the shifting load. As the bow struck bottom, the sheer inertia of the shifting load broke the ship in half when the bow hit bottom. The stern was rolled inverted by the torque from the still running engines.

It's somewhat interesting that ships do not seem to have some kind of blackboxes that could be recovered and key parameters replayed to help uncover what actually happened. Why don't they have such devices if planes have them and now even cars do?

@vj.joseph

Жыл бұрын

They do have black boxes.

@Ben-go1iq

Жыл бұрын

They do have black boxes, they just didn’t at the time

@vaakdemandante8772

Жыл бұрын

@@Ben-go1iq OK, good to know :)

I believe that the Fitzgerald was afloat, hit a big wave which caused her bow to be out of the water at the top of a crest, when the bow dived it collided with the sea floor, buckling the hull. Since there was no warning or indication from the crew that the ship was foundering, the crew probably thought they were going to pop back out of the water.

@Lawnmower979

Жыл бұрын

I don’t know Lake Superior is really deep

@BatteryH1862

Жыл бұрын

@@Lawnmower979 about 500' deep at that point, the Fitz was nearly twice that in length.

@HeadHoncho727

Жыл бұрын

WAYYYY too fuckin deep where they were.

@BatteryH1862

Жыл бұрын

@@HeadHoncho727 the Fitzgerald sits in 530' of water. The Fitz was 730' long.

Im sitting here at Pancake Bay Provincial park. We hiked to the Edmund Fitzgerald lookout and looked over where she sank. Its eerie. I have always thought that since I was a kid. Even as gorgeous as the view was, Caribbean blue water shoreline, green canopy of the forest and a clear blue sky, I had goose bumps.