I always hated this plot point of Bruce's romance with Barbara and assholery towards Dick in the DCAU. It really degraded Bruce's character for me.

@theepsilongunslinger3089

3 жыл бұрын

Same. I try to pretend it never happened

@Kentrc11

3 жыл бұрын

It is easy to forget that Bruce is just human. He is flawed like everyone else.

@theepsilongunslinger3089

3 жыл бұрын

@@Kentrc11 Yeah I do agree that's why I like Batman so much but it definitely still bothers me

@Kentrc11

3 жыл бұрын

@@theepsilongunslinger3089 Didn't bother Bruce, it comes with the territory of being Gotham's most eligible bachelor.

@zee4125

3 жыл бұрын

@@Kentrc11 Yes Bruce is human but these specific actions seem very out of character for him. As in, under his cold fierce exterior he's supposed to be a very compassionate and empathic man deep down. And a man with immense self control and sense of morality. But these actions contradict those traits. Think about it. We're talking about a guy who restrains himself from killing the Joker. He can do that, but not restrain himself from fucking Barbara?

This just makes me realize how pointless the Barbra pregnancy thing really was if you cut all of that out nothing would’ve changed

@TerryHesticles

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly what I was thinking

@Kentrc11

3 жыл бұрын

So pointless it triggers Batman fanboys whenever they're reminded about it

@doofer6863

3 жыл бұрын

the whole batman/batgirl thing was honestly not needed and was kinda weird

@Kentrc11

3 жыл бұрын

@@doofer6863 Not true

@CreeperthanPasta

3 жыл бұрын

@@Kentrc11 pee

Dick honestly deserved way better, his girlfriend who he was going to propose to cheated on him with is adopted father. Then became half blind because of said adopted father and then couldn’t continue being Nightwing full time, I feel really bad for him. *Edit; also lets not forget that Batman got Dicks girlfriend pregnant.*

@2cringe4you96

3 жыл бұрын

like all the robins say Fuck batman

@lisa_rue

3 жыл бұрын

@@2cringe4you96 Fuck Batman 😔✊

@MikoyanGurevichMiG21

3 жыл бұрын

Shame Starfire isn't in this universe and the Teen Titans are also never alluded to be in it. At least if they were there Dick would have a much, much better future in this timeline.

@lisa_rue

3 жыл бұрын

@@MikoyanGurevichMiG21 Starfire and Dick honestly had the best relationship, but DC had to constantly screw it over.

@MikoyanGurevichMiG21

3 жыл бұрын

@@lisa_rue I hate how they got shafted over yet again in Apoklips War, things were starting to look good but no, hard reboot time with poor Dick going insane and Starfire turning into Darkseid's mind controlled minion. Hope they have a better fate in the "rebirth" movie universe I guess.

Aight he's back. Alfred needleworth is back baby

@Shadierspider5e

3 жыл бұрын

Yes I am back

@trentmercia9833

3 жыл бұрын

It's pennysworth

@Captain_Keppy06

3 жыл бұрын

@@trentmercia9833 I know, needlemouse sounds like alfred so that's why I called him that.

@Shadierspider5e

3 жыл бұрын

I didnt change my name for this comment to

@landveseli2419

3 жыл бұрын

What?

The original Batman Beyond continuity really did Bruce dirty, because in the Injustice continuity Bruce was genuinely sad and heartbroken when he saw Damian killed Dick, he even kind of abandoned Damian because of Dick's death

@CodeeXD

Жыл бұрын

Not kind of. He straight up disowns Damien for killing dick. I think they even have preflight dialogue were batman tells Damien the night he killed dick was the night both of his sons died

That doesn't sound like Bruce. In the cartoon, he blamed himself for what happened to Tim. I know for sure he would blame himself for what happened to Dick.

@BasketCase420

3 жыл бұрын

2 words Bad writing

@justice_productions_

3 жыл бұрын

Yea honestly I only consider what’s onscreen to be cannon

@Jonathan-A.C.

3 жыл бұрын

@@justice_productions_ Yea exactly. Same principle Dwayne McDuffy used for Ben 10 and DCAU

@justice_productions_

3 жыл бұрын

@@Jonathan-A.C. Ah fellow DCAU Watchtower fan I see! Or did you already know that lol

@Jonathan-A.C.

3 жыл бұрын

@@justice_productions_ I am lol. I’m pretty sure I saw it on own of their canon vids

Fun Fact:In the cartoon,Terry wears Dick Grayson's suit,when he asks Bruce who DG is,Bruce just stares at him and walks off

@craigpeoples9883

3 жыл бұрын

Oh man I always assumed he was dead and Bruce didn't want to talk about how it happened but that's to obvious now that I think about it

@aliostrowski1935

2 жыл бұрын

Which episode? I watched it but forgot what number and season it was

@aliostrowski1935

2 жыл бұрын

@@craigpeoples9883 I'm surprised he left anything there actually here's what would've happened if he'd told Terry about the initials Terry: Who's DG? Bruce: I don't want to talk about it Terry,: you know I'm gonna keep asking right,? Bruce: ok fine the initials on that suit tag stand for Dick Grayson Terry: who? Bruce: my first failed attempt at parenthood I was his legal guardian after he lost his parents at 8 due to a gangster named Zucco Terry: wait you tried this before? Did you learn from your mistakes? Bruce: unfortunately no as he grew Into a teenager he started to rebel more I dismissed it as I figured it was a teenager thing Terry: guess u were wrong then Bruce: I was infact I stunk as a father I wasn't even there for his college graduation Terry: wow that's bad parenting Bruce: it gets worse he eventually quit as Robin. Moved out of Gotham city and created his own hero identity calling himself Nightwing Terry: so another great hero was a result of bad parenting? Bruce: yes but the worst part came years later we were chasing some criminals onto a roof I had forgotten how to work with a partner they shot. I pulled up my cape unfortunately that blocked Nightwing's own shot the bullets went through my cape and he had a ton of bullets in him. Terry: wow didn't know people could survive that Bruce: yeah by all logic he should've died on the spot he had multiple serious injuries they all eventually healed but he lost his left eye forcing him into retirement I doubt we"ll ever talk again Terry; wow if all that happened to me I wouldn't talk to you either

@chrisanderson2204

2 жыл бұрын

@@aliostrowski1935 episode 12,Spellbound

@Love-Sensibility

8 ай бұрын

I was weirded out too. Wait, its Terry but he's wearing Dick's suit?

When I heard that Bruce and Barbra got serious in Batman Beyond I literally gagged. Bruce really dropped the ball on that one, not only did he literally see her GROW UP into a young woman, he knows her father quite well, and he knew this was his adopted (?) Sons girlfriend. Everything about it is just wrong. It's not that she's a young woman dating an older man that makes me upset, she's obviously old enough to make her own decisions, it's all the reason I've previously started. Barbra is also just as guilty for this. It's just... Poor Dick. As far as I'm concerned this affair never happened.

@syckles

3 жыл бұрын

Agreed.

@Spaced92

2 жыл бұрын

It's so out of character that it feels non canon in its own story, that's when you see writers go out of control.

@TheBigExclusive

2 жыл бұрын

Dude Bruce... Wayne is only 8 years older than Barbara. Do you think Bruce is some old man or something? The age Gap is nothing. They are both adults.

@lordash2173

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheBigExclusive That's not the problem. The problem is she is his adopted son's girlfriend, not to mention he knew her since she was a teen

@TheBigExclusive

2 жыл бұрын

@@lordash2173 - why do you keep saying "adopted son"? When he first met Dick, Bruce was in his early 20s. Dick was in his teens. That's a "big brother" relationship. Not a "father son" relationship. They even say in the comics that Bruce never knew how to be a father to Dick. Bruce grew up without a father. So he tried to be a big brother and a friend to Dick. Because that's all Bruce knew how to do

those Comics aren't Canon to the Batman Beyond cartoon, they're part of a separate Universe known as Earth 12.

@GreenEyedWolf404

3 жыл бұрын

That’s exactly what I said. I’m not sure what lead him to believe those comics were connected to the the DCAU - it’s always been an entirely separate continuity.

@uberlephrad8218

3 жыл бұрын

You mean like the pregnancy, the cape incident or both?

Im glad they erased that. Its just too wrong for all characters. The pregnancy and cheating combo itself was utterly unnecessary and pointless, since the "Bruce making a mistake and not being able to properly apologize" fits him more and sounds more believable if we remember what happened to Tim Drake in that universe. Bruce pushing Dick away after another of his own mistakes, that fact alone would be okay to work with.

As a victim of abuse myself, I couldn’t agree more with Dick's decision to cut Bruce out of his life

@whytho1534

3 жыл бұрын

I understand the whole Barbara pregnancy thing was stupid and pointless but wdym “abuse” what does abuse have anything to do with this what Bruce did isn’t abuse it was only a one off thing sure it was dumb but it wasn’t abuse it shouldn’t even be considered a “bad”from a perspective considering Barbara wasn’t dating Dick at that time but that’s not to say it wasn’t completely out of character for Bruce because it was but what he did wasn’t abuse it shouldn’t even be traumatic

@AntdaGreat

3 жыл бұрын

@@whytho1534 he obviously meant mental abuse 💀 batman in this universe didn't care that he got Nightwing shot and he didn't even apologize when Nightwing found out batman got babra pregnant as the video said Nightwing thinks batman sees all of the bat family as disposable

@whytho1534

3 жыл бұрын

@@AntdaGreat its not mental abuse tho he just slept with a woman that Dick liked they weren't even together at that time anyways I can understand why he felt sad but how is it mental abuse? abuse is a *long* standing pattern of behaviours that can harm and hurt other people i highlighted the long because this was only a one off thing it wasn't like bruce slept with Barbara ever day and screaming I hate nightwing 24/7 lmao

@Iliadic

3 жыл бұрын

@@whytho1534 dude. Did you not see the part of the video where Grayson got SHOT, was HALF-BLINDED, and Bruce barely even VISITED HIM IN THE HOSPITAL?!

@whytho1534

3 жыл бұрын

@@Iliadic I wasn't talking about that was I? Don't change the subject

There are Only 3 People Who Have Worked in Batman Media that Hate Dick Grayson Soo Much. That they Would Write him in a Style to Which he's Either Useless or Push Upon the Idea of Killing him Off & Their Names are Bruce Timm, Dan Didido & Frank Miller.

I like seeing Old Bruce telling old Dick “glad I can still surprise you.” If I wrote the series I would have Them always remain friends and Bruce learning to care

It always hurts to see things not working out between those two. Its just so heartwarming when every once in a blue moon we actually get to see tender loving father son exchanges between them. It makes me wish they had a much stronger bond that they would both acknowledge.

Man, I wish Starfire and the titans were in this universe. Cuz, the titans is where Dick is treated with respect. Plus I’ve always liked him with Starfire and hate how dc is just trying to force him and Barbara together. To me Nightwing being with Batgirl was just one of the ways to have Nightwing in the Batman books.

@pcpt

3 жыл бұрын

Dick and Barbara isn’t forced. It’s been there for so long. Ofc this is all my opinion

@MegaMagicdog

3 жыл бұрын

IIRC, Batman mentions to Static (who asked where he was) that Robin was off with the Titans. Apparently they wanted to have Static meet them but they were probably embargoed or didn't have a chance.

@narutogen13

3 жыл бұрын

@@MegaMagicdog you are correct that's the reason the embargo part

@pavankrishna.s396

3 жыл бұрын

@@pcpt yeah.

@homesliceheroes6306

3 жыл бұрын

@@pcpt It is forced as hell in some continuities.

I'm seeing a contradiction here: The Barbra pregnancy affair was AFTER Joker brainwashed Tim and Tim killed Joker. Which Dick still had both eyes. But in the eye lost incident, Joker was alive. The comics made little sense and seemed to try making Bruce and Dick's relationship mirror the All Star Batman and Robin comic, which was terrible.

@TheBigExclusive

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah you are right. The comic didn't make any sense. It seemed like the author was just trying to stir up some weird drama. The truth is the Barbara wanted to settle down. Bruce didn't want to let go of being Batman. So she stopped being Batgirl and moved on to someone else. This whole pregnancy nonsense is some weird soap opera drama thing.

Nightwing: left since barbra drama Red Robin: traumatized from joker incident Damian: joined league of assassins WHERE IS JASON IN THIS UNIVERSE?!

@STOCKOUP

3 жыл бұрын

Tim was Jason in this universe until it got retcon and now Jason was adopted between Dick and Tim but Bruce told no one about him and forgot about him after the Joker supposedly killed him

@Axle1547

3 жыл бұрын

He ded

@shahanahsan05

3 жыл бұрын

Ahhhhh, *CROWBAR* I guess

@Albino_Basilisk

3 жыл бұрын

Damian exists in this universe?

@silverslayer6262

3 жыл бұрын

@@Albino_Basilisk yeah, he fought terry in the comics

Never liked how dark and obsessed Bruce became during 'New Batman Adventures'. Like he would at least joke around and change his voice when he was Bruce in The Animated Series, but after that he would sound like Batman even as Bruce and it got to the point where even Tim pointed out that Bruce (not Batman) never smiles. Then the whole dating and knocking up Barbara, despite the age difference and despite her loving Dick Grayson (in a DCAU where Starfire doesn't exist to at least give him that option), it all sounded fucked up to me and ruins his character. Like why should I care if he stops the Joker for the millionth time if he's acting like his own family's worst enemy. Like why making such an asshole if I'm supposed to feel sorry for him as 'old man Bruce'. At that point I wanted someone to point out to him that he has lost his way somewhere down the line and it's over for him. You were a good guy once, but not anymore, so it's time to die old man.

I was wondering the same thing when I was a kid asking about Dick Grayson's whereabouts In Batman Beyond.

It’s ironic really Bruce took Richard in. Because he saw himself in him and wanted the best for him. Then proceeded to put him through a world of hurt.

@dominiquejones3805

8 ай бұрын

Exactly those actions dont fit Bruce

I totally agree with you on what you are saying. Seriously when a parental figure treats you no more than a disposable object, it's truly time to cut all ties for your entire well-being.

Needed something to watch then got this notification

I think Dick Grayson made the correct decision. I've witnessed someone accept an abusive family relationship because it was easier than leaving. The effects on his psyche were debilitating and by the time he admitted it was that bad, the damage was already done. He's become miserable and cynical and loathing of human beings. He still sticks by his friends, but that anger is a living hell for him. I don't know if he'll ever be normal again.

The thing that I appreciate about the difference between how Bruce and Dick are drawn in the “happier” batman beyond future is that despite the fact that Bruce is 20-something years his senior, he has a real abundance of laugh/smile lines around his eyes, whereas Bruce doesn’t have too many of those. Very clever attention to detail.

He is in the comics. He's like a badass SolidSnake-type actually. Almost like Snake Pliskin from Escape to New York. He is mad at Bruce still but he helps Terry take down some guys and is still cool af :)

I’m not sure if you said it already or if you are aware, but none of these comics are canon to the DCAU. So we still don’t officially know why he isn’t in BB

Gonna be real I forgot the whole pregnancy from my head.

Earth-12 and the DCAU (which “Batman Beyond” is part of) are not the same universe. So that quick mention in “Return of the Joker” and one in “A Touch of Curaré” truly IS all we know about him in the future. Check out our “Will It Canon?” show for all the details!

Man comics can be so cool but so disturbing

@JXHNDRX

3 жыл бұрын

Just like real life

@LeftyPencil

3 жыл бұрын

Dark Comics Depressing Comics D Ceased

Glad to see you back

Been a while NeedleMouse. Glad to see you back!

Happy new year needlemouse and glad your making more nerdy content

Tbh, Batgirl ALWAYS had a huge thing for Batman in TAS. The relationship she had with Nightwing was thrown in there to honour the comics and to create a love triangle dynamic. Also, Batgirl knew she couldn’t have Batman to herself because of his mission so Nightwing was always second string there- and he knew it. It must’ve been painfully hard growing up in your surrogate father’s shadow and having everyone preferring him over yourself- in addition to him being emotionally dead and incapable of properly expressing his love for you. I think Batgirl deserves more blame for the way she disrespected Nightwing by tagging him along all the while wanting Batman- it’s not all his fault. Also, I think Batman does love Nightwing, but the years had been so tough on him he’s just incapable of communicating that to him.

Great to know that you survived 2020!

The king has returned happy to see you back

Good to see you again and i hope the best for you

Your videos are the best I’ve been watching for years!

Welcome back needlemouse. Hope your friend is doing better. All the best.

I feel so bad for Dickie :( He doesn’t deserve this

Thanks for doing this video👍

Oh my gosh! You’re back! It’s been so long!

Great video, Needle!

Wellcome back needlemouse

They seriously should have made this a movie. Showing Dick Grayson in the Batman Beyond timeline is a huge deal and something I was waiting for. They could still do it. Also Dick doing “wet work” for the government is awesome and Id love to see more of that in an animated film.

Letssss gooooooooo my boy is backkk

Favorite Dc KZreadr posted yeeeessss!

thanks, that filled i a lot of blanks for me.

Love your vids bro keep up the good work

This, Justice League & BTAS were the greatest & I now realize we didn’t appreciate them enough

They’re developing a follow up series that fills the gap between BTAS & BB maybe they’ll retcon/fix some of the awkward parts of the story (hopefully).

first time i was ever early lol. also welcome back mate!

Needlemouse I love ur damn channel.

Crazy I searched this up like a few days ago on why he wasn’t in Batman beyond and now u making a video about it

Woo ur back

You know what's interesting is that in Batman Beyond 2011 Comic issue#4 Dick admitted that he was Nightwing and also that he was part of the Outsiders and the Teen Titans which makes them Cannon to Earth 12

Pls do 2 videos in 1 week we miss u so much

Welcome back hope your friend is doing okey

I legit just finished watching Batman Beyond like last week and omfg it was incredible 👌

I love you and ur vids just keep it up

I’m literally re watching it and this vid just came in my feed. And a great question indeed

Simple explanation: as Barbara Gordon is retired as is Tim Drake so he's not a hero anymore, he's busy and no longer in Gotham so that's easy to not write in the character we also get a slight reference from Barbara Gordon

welcome back!

I love this channel

What’s up,how u doin,thank god ur back,u saved my life through covid,hope u are doing well,hope ur friend is doing okay.

You should do a video on all of Spider-Man’s clones(Ben Reilly, Kaine, Tarantula, etc) covering their origins and unique abilities they may have like tarantulas six arms or kaines daggers

I watched your videos when playing the Arkham Games and in the savage quarantine if you Will i prefer listening your vids while playing Arkham knight

Old man Greyson in his suit along side daughter and Batman beyond looks amazing 🔥

As a big Grayson fan the one thing I’m able to take away from all of this (retcons and multiverses combined) is that “Bruce Wayne” wants and continually tries to build the one thing he can never have/acknowledge, a loving family. As much as he wants to be “Bruce Wayne” he’s incapable of being anything other than Batman, a singularly focused idealized version of a concept he can never live up to. He spent his whole life trying to be that and in the end when he could no longer go it ended up getting people hurt, by that time “Bruce” was truly dead, zero empathy. I don’t know about all the Barbara stuff, maybe that was just him servicing his base needs, but it didn’t mean anything to him either way and was icky. There’s only one way it ever could’ve ended, which is him old and alone in a cave having alienated everyone he ever cared about (or at pretended/tried to) and not having accomplished his goal. That’s what Batman Beyond got right. Sorry for the essay, I’ve been thinking about this since I was a kid, it all just kinda spewed out.

If I was Nightwing I would have broken that no killing rule just for Bruce tbh, maybe Barbara too

I love your videos

Funny thing, I actually wrote out a fanfic on Word where Dick has a more prominent role. The differences is that instead of a teenage Batman, he and Bruce are training Tim Drake as the new Robin, who is filling in Terry’s role as Gotham City’s new protector. Dick is still operating as Nightwing and is as young as ever. He’s also happily married to Starfire, has a villa on the outskirts of Gotham, and their daughter, Nightstar from the Kingdom Come storyline is Tim’s girlfriend. In the comics, Dick and Tim had a relationship akin to siblings, especially after Tim’s father was killed and he was adopted by Bruce. Ergo, I wanted to build off that by have it Dick be there from day one.

@Pero-zl4jp

Жыл бұрын

Yeah I’m ok with this except Nightstar being Tim’s girlfriend. She’s basically dating her uncle and you mention that they’re more akin to siblings.

@Love-Sensibility

8 ай бұрын

Sounds about right. I would think the Graysons would live far outside of Gotham but not too far

I have never wondered about this ever.

Can you make more corps please I love these videos.

Where did Bruce even get the idea that "none of the other robins ever complained"?

So basically this is what Jason Todd felt the entirety of Arkham Knight

@jockeyfield1954

3 жыл бұрын

except jason in the arkham knight made his own army, took over batman's beloved city, and basically tortured bruce and tried to kill him while grayson just felt abused and decided to never see him again

@ThatGuyChoco

3 жыл бұрын

@@jockeyfield1954 Yeah but he felt the same hatred

@jonbrewer297

2 жыл бұрын

@@jockeyfield1954 I mean, considering Jason tried to give Dick One Bad Day in Bruce Jones's run...

Hey bro have a good day and god bless you

The old Batman Beyond comics are part of Earth 12 and are inspired by the Animated cartoons. Not can towards the Batman Beyond cartoon. Batman Beyond Future's End and the comics that follow it into New52 and DC Rebirth are more connected to the main timeline (Earth-0) comics

He’s back baby

UNDERRATED

He's back after a month he is finally back

Dick Grayson probably never appeared in BatMan Beyond because he might’ve been in Blüdhaven or something as Nightwing.

Yay he's back

I remember reading Batman Beyond #4 and reading all of this.

Awesome and cool!

That’s actually crazy I just finished the final episode today

Anyone else find it weird that they give the batwoman suit hair? Like I’m not sure if it’s meant to throw enemies off identity-wise like “Oh if you ever wanna look for bat woman she has copper colored hair!” But that doesn’t make sense to me and has bothered me for awhile. Anyway, I love the idea of Batman&woman Beyond, they’ll make an iconic uncle-niece duo! Now all I’m waiting for is to see Terry’s little half asian batbabies running around.

Finally we meet again

0:39 Me:- No , I don't think i ever will....

I thought you were talking about the comic, because Grayson was in the last *Batman* *Beyond* run, the run starts where *Futures* *End* leaves off, it just ended in December & ran for 66 issues, Graysons daughter becomes Batwoman near the end of the run. I really liked this comic, I was really annoyed that it was cancelled, I hope a new story starts again soon. Edit Never mind you talked about it. It’s funny, this comment was deleted 3 times because I used his first name, as soon as I changed it to his last name it was allowed. The KZread algorithm has seriously gone out of control in the last few months, I’ve had so many comments deleted for ridiculous reasons just like this. I can’t describe what I think of Romita Jr’s art, it gets deleted every single time, and there’s nothing wrong with the description, the algorithm just won’t allow it.

They brought him back in the comics as Terry's mentor before the new 52 changed things. Luckily Grayson comes back in the rebirth series. I'm pissed the cancelled it!

MOORE UPLOADS!!!

3:00 to Batman left is Terry, his lil bro (Robin beyond), Batwing and Damien

I always wondered about that

To me Spectacular Spider Man is the best Animated Superhero show. Respect and keep up the epic work.

I have that graphic novel of the comic where:(spoiler alert), there was a guy called hush who is a clone of him, and he mentioned the reason Grayson and Batman were no longer partners.

There is something that I noticed about the deaths of Bruce Wayne's parents is that Martha wayne's death makes no sense in any batman continuity they always give a reason for Thomas wayne's death but never for Martha. I looked this up on many different searched and could find nothing for the reason or motive for her death in particular.

I'm glad they changed everything. This bruce was supposed to be a continuation of the animated Batman and JLA series and yet he really didn't feel like the same charcter in those stories.

Amazing

we need a needlemouse draw my life

Such a shame neither Starfire nor the Teen Titans are canon to the DC Animated Timmverse. If they existed in this timeline then things could have turned out to be so much happier and better for Dick. Even if Bruce treated him the way he did he'd still have some actual friends and a better life partner too.