EDIT: You dont actually need a full Ravenwing detachment for the invulns! Additionally it sounded like we were saying the Ravenwing characters broke Stevens detachment for Deathwing, but it is in fact due to the Infiltrators. Sorry about that, thanks for the heads up!

What you said about list 1 is actually incorrect. A Ravenwing Talonmaster does not break Deathwing detachment, nor does the Ravenwing Apothecary. Deathwing checks for the Inner Circle keyword, both of those units have it. The only reason the Terminators do not have obsec in Steven Crawleys list is the Infiltrators, which makes them a suspect choice at best, even though he did well with the list. What you said about teh Ravenwing units getting only the 5++ or 4++ in a Ravenwing detachment is also incorrect. The units in this list would have been getting the invul. The only thing you get with pure Ravenwing is Obsec on normal Bike Squads and Outriders (which are kinda bad anyway). So the Talonmaster in this list gets exactly the same bonuses as a Talonmaster in full Ravenwing would, they lose nothing in this setup. Best way to deal with Termis is with Mortal Wounds. If you expect termis, take Mortals, you will be fine.

@limitless811

Жыл бұрын

Right! Those units have inner circle keyword. Infiltrators do not.

@jurgenwurgen3239

Жыл бұрын

Thank god someone mentioned it

@nickherting4698

Жыл бұрын

Exactly correct

@bulldozer8950

Жыл бұрын

@ChueyZero and on the final note, if you feel your Deathwing terminators getting smashed by mortal wounds, lazuras has a 5+ fnp vs mortal wounds bubble and so does one of the Chaplain litancy. Also my guess for the infiltrators is stubborn defiance

@cypher3758

Жыл бұрын

Was about to post the wording for jink

It's crazy that they put CSM terminators up to 36 points when Deathwing terminators exist

@BoneTrait

Жыл бұрын

The bigger problem is that points is not the problem with CSM terminators. It’s the fact that Black Rune is OP as hell.

@davidcanty7903

Жыл бұрын

Chaos must not be allowed to outshine the poster boys! :)

@BoneTrait

Жыл бұрын

@@davidcanty7903 oh of course. Honestly the points changes for CSM terminators just punish people for what their going to do anyway, rather than actually changing their behavior.

@amcreaken

Жыл бұрын

TSons are 40ppm. All is dust = worse stormshield. 1 psychic cast/deny for 35 points (minimum) . 10 points for Hellfyre Missile Rack and 5 for a heavy weapon.

@greggonzalez661

Жыл бұрын

It’s because of your Runes of Damnation. Put it on other units once in a while and maybe escape the nerf. Lol

Ravenwing don’t need to be a pure detachment to get Jink. And they have to advance to get the 4++ and move to get the 5++ it’s their version of chapter tactics, like transhuman in Deathwing.

@TabletopTitans

Жыл бұрын

Oh wow thats even better, totally missed that

I have been running a pure Ravenwing List and it hits like a truck with all that shooting and speed. Codex is a guarantee 15 points for them. Going second also helps with their speed as they can grab objectives and get that Max Score in turn 5.

Black templars 20 man blobs are surprisingly effcient at killing dark angles termies with some buffs. Think it's an average of 8 in one go with Chapter master, crusader helm assault doctrine, and mortal wound litany. Usually win the center of the board with a beta strike.

Just a correction on Ravenwing. All Dark Angels Ravenwing units get Jink regardless of whether or not you have a Ravenwing detachment so the 5++ for move, and 4++ for advance apply to any Ravenwing unit in any Dark Angels list. Love the videos but there are a few instances of misinformation in this one.

I have been considering a Dark Angels army before this. This video helps put it into perspective. Hopefully going to use the Wrath of the Soul Forge King to kick it off!

A big durability piece that you missed for Deathwing durability is the Line Unbreakable strat. 1CP to typically severely limit the amount of melee attacks you can put into a squad. I also would have mentioned that in addition to the ancient and chaplain, Lazarus and the chaplain offer a 5+ mortal wound FNP aura that helps save them from mortal wounds which are their biggest bane.

"They were surrounded. We outnumbered the Imperial defenders of Zambeque by a thousand to one, but I knew the battle was lost the moment I saw the glow of the teleportarium and the pale armor." -Lord Dharcon, Alpha Legion

I suppose its just a huge coincidence that major Dark Angels releases are coming up

Scout Snipers, Hellblasters and Attack Bikes in a castle formation with Azrael and Lazarus with an Bike Apothecary is INSANE!

Not sure if this was mentioned but ravenwing can alpha strike with a pregame move and if going first move again. So getting +3 movement and base movement is 17in. They get that as pregame move and then can still move again. That’s 34in move turn 1! They are literally in your deployment zone on any map! Then have a strat to fall out of combat during combat, ie before opponent can swing back. Yeah, they are dominating because they are harlequins with marine data sheets.

@Jason-wh7in

Жыл бұрын

Then you have better terminators with a more flexible load out setup. They also cost the same as normal terminators and if taken in a DW detachment gain obsec. With a strat, they are better than Wraithguard.

Thank you for your service. o7

nice coverage, our FLGS has a guy running a similar list right now. there's one thing worth correcting though, as it's a big part of why the list is so strong. the Ravenwing units taken don't have the Deathwing keyword - but they *DO* have Inner Circle. that means the 1st Company detachment rule still applies and the Deathwing Termies are still ObSec after all! (edit) ...I'm a numpty, totally missed the Infiltrators in there. :P

@applesaucemouse6987

Жыл бұрын

in the list shown in the video they use infiltrators which breaks the obsec for termies

@eddieg82

Жыл бұрын

Depends on the Ravenwing Unit. Talonmasters and Black Knights are inner circle but attack bikes and regular landspeeders are not.

@brotherturel352

Жыл бұрын

Had quite a few of Tyran....I mean, long time, always been a fan of Dark Angels, players recently in our local tournament groups trying to push Obsec Bikes or Terminators when they include Infiltrators, or other units that break the rule going against players who also don't know the rule and it's been pretty funny.

@mindeclipse85

Жыл бұрын

@@applesaucemouse6987 - Bingo! Nice correction.

It's great seeing the army doing well - we were bottom of the barrel for many, many years.

well considering my normal deathwatch marines cost just less than a deathwing terminator its no wonder I'm getting blown off the table

Ravenwing only get 5++ if they move, they are basic armour saves only if they stand still. They need to advance to get the 4++. However, if they advance they can still shoot with anything with the ravenwing keyword. It does mean you are hitting on 4's but that's not really that big of a thing. Stay in devastator for the +3" move, advance all day for the 4++ and still get to shoot with your MM"s!

@noirceuillesombre3472

Жыл бұрын

Constantly in motion - very appealing!

@TabletopTitans

Жыл бұрын

Oh shoot, wow that is so good :O

@Jason-wh7in

Жыл бұрын

Funny how they are better than white scars where the entire factions is about speed.

I want to run an all troop custodes force against something like this

Can you guys do a thousand point dark angels list or does anyone know where i can find a good one

How do people deal with this meta monster?

@afrohorse29

Жыл бұрын

played against them with votann, they stop being durable pretty quick

@tbone11x

Жыл бұрын

​@@afrohorse29 votann are very good into deathwing heavy lists. Every game against votann I've played I've been tabled by turn 4.

Sounds like Mortal Wounds are necessary again :| Imma take C'tans. At least 2. Maybe even a Vault. Yup, Nihilak C'tans is probably my competitive list now. With Dark Angels, Iron Hands, World Eaters/Angron, Orks, GSC, all of these being so strong right now... i feel like Nightbringer and Void Dragon, teaming up, can be a pretty tough cookie to crack for them :)

@TabletopTitans

Жыл бұрын

Yes Mortals!

@JacobIvice

Жыл бұрын

One thing that they didn't bring up in the video is that in addition to the apothecary 6+ FNP, Deathwing have two VERY good characters in Lazarus and Interrogator chaplain that give them a 5+ Mortal Wound FNP in an aura.

@JordanR

Жыл бұрын

Aren't world eaters like exactly 50%? "So strong". Pfft. It's attitudes like this that got the CSM codex binned at a 38% win rate.

GW really needs to adjust the unique units in each chapter to help balance SM. DA need to have points on DW Terminators go up to 40. While unique units in chapters like IF need to have point cuts.

tldw: playing da is like playing marines except your literally falling over stacking buffs but you have last codex's starts so theyre still super strong

Long Live Lion!

for my felow Death Guard players I don't have a lot of experience with them but Morty seems to do rather well against anything that wants to "stand in the middle and be tough"

@smoke7363

Жыл бұрын

Sadly nope, Morty attack 7 times hitting on 2+ with reroll is like 7, wound on 4+ reroll 1 is like 4-5, termies have shield with 4++, 6+ fnp so 2 or 3 dead, one comes back next round, so Morty in the end killed 1 or 2 termies from the 10 brick, not even close :D with small attacks 21, all hit, wound on 4+ reroll 1, like 12-13, save on 3+ (shield +1) like 9, 6+ fnp likely 2 dead, 1 comes backs next turn, Morty killed 1 termie. Also they gonna hit back with the 3 damage (I know -1 damage, no reroll, -1 to hit not matter hammer already gave -1 to hit) hammers, all of them.

So the ravenwing got buffed?? Wasn't it a 5+ for moving and a 4+ if advanced..???

Hi Titans. Personally, I am at a loss to see why Black Tempulers are not doing better. Maybe more BT players are like me. Leaning more into the thematic side of the game. I know we can and do hold strong in the center of the bord ourselves. Anyhow thank you once again for all that you do.

I feel like 30 Terminators is ridiculous even without being the Absurdity that are DA Termies. You remember all those times in the lore when That many terminators would march down the field facing the enemy? Cause I certainly don't.

Cheese

@noirceuillesombre3472

Жыл бұрын

People like cheese.

I think a slight nerf to codex warfare will adjust the win rates down a touch without dumpstering the faction

With my custodes all i feel that i can do when playing against DA is put my dice down and say good game, we have easentially zero MW output and my quality over quantity damage output being halved twice and devastating. And our secondaries are mediocre so it’s almost impossible to outscore them.

Making unit upgrades free was a complete mistake. I really hope they are not planning on leaning more into that concept in the new edition, although Im sure thats exactly whats going to happen. Im sick of them feeling the need to dumb everything down

Dark angels are strong because they are cool

If anything the supremacy of DA makes me wish CSM got free wargear. I feel like they are hurting especially against armies like DA because so many of their tankbusting units are overcosted or restricted in their access to wargear. Though I doubt any DW terminator blob would appreciate being punched by S6 master of the union posessed

@Jason-wh7in

Жыл бұрын

Still wounding a DW terminator blob on 4’s.

@benpritchard1408

Жыл бұрын

10 possessed with full hit and wound rerolls into the -1D unit kill 3 terminators (including 6+++ from the apothecary), and 1 comes back next turn, and the 7 left will kill all 10 possessed on the swing back... (assumes reroll 1s to hit and wound which they should have).

They need to make them pay for their war gear, they're too cheap for what they do. That way the unit is still cool and dangerous, but you pay for it in army size

@Jason-wh7in

Жыл бұрын

The deathwing and ravenwing keywords need to be a points increase of 5-10 per model. Paying 50-100 extra pts for a squad seems fair for having either perma transhuman or free invuln just for moving.

Push mid bro

Stop with the "uhbyeeeeee" already, Adrian. XD These are such cool videos but are tainted by that, lol.

@scotwilcox1771

Жыл бұрын

Embrace the cringe, my son...

@Trolley4141

Жыл бұрын

@@scotwilcox1771 ay papi

@flaviusbelisarius6591

Жыл бұрын

I love the titans catch phrases. Adrian stopping uhbyeeee would be like Bridger not saying " you can't stop me" unthinkable...

Dude you have many of the rules mixed up before you make a video acting like you know what you're talkin about do a little research seriously dude

This is why competitive 40k sucks. Oh, I need some actual troops? Um, ok, how about this minimum squad of infiltrators I guess. They cost the least so they'll do. A lot of actual troops, you know, the guys that actually fight the wars should be compulsory. This is a WARgame, isn't it?

@applesaucemouse6987

Жыл бұрын

they don't actually need the troops though in AoO. They are in the list for the forward deploy and score stubborn defiance every round for max points