Shouldn’t the art be grittier? All the species (was that the term?) have smiles on their faces and look like they are living in domesticated bliss.

@aaronfrey4418

6 күн бұрын

Totally agree. This "happy" art style has become more prominent.

@StanNotSoSaint

6 күн бұрын

Gritty? In DnD? Why would DnD be gritty?

@CScott-wh5yk

6 күн бұрын

@@StanNotSoSaint🤣 good point

@Drago5899

6 күн бұрын

@@StanNotSoSaint because it was inspired by sword and sorcery novels. WoTc did tone it down a bit in 3rd edition, but the shift simply went from grounded sword and sorcery to more Heroic fantasy. So, if anything the art should show the characters being heroic, not performing mundane tasks.

@StanNotSoSaint

6 күн бұрын

@@Drago5899 but what DnD nowadays has to do with the stuff it was inspired by tho?

The main problem I have with the art is that there's no unified vision. There are so many different art styles while being uniformly bland design-wise that it just comes across as uninteresting. At that point, you may as well not have art and just tell the reader to imagine them how they will for their specific table.

51:00. The two problems I have with the illustration of the dwarves is that: 1.) The perspective of the figures relative to the room is all wrong. Our POV of the room is really high up, but our POV of the dwarves is lower, so that we're looking at them as though we were just above head height. 2.) That blacksmith's assistant - the dwarf who's smiling at the baker - isn't paying attention to what he's doing! Look at how hard the blacksmith is hitting that hot metal thing. This is a recipe for a workplace injury.

@user-vg6sg7kh1q

6 күн бұрын

It was also the part I notice first. They look like human that cosplay dwarf without knowing what they are doing. -nobody has a real apron. Dwarves would not want to burn their beard -somebody in sandals where they could receive a splinter of hot metal and pant inside the boots to be sure the metal enter the boots -the assistant which is strong is doing the easy job and does not hold the metal well in the tong -nothing close to maintain the fire -too clean for a workshop -the anvil has no hole to put accessorie in it -all the other tools for cutting, bending, punching are nowhere to be seen. -no water or oil close -a cat would stay far from the noise of the hammer hitting the metal A dwarf would have been angry and throw everyone out of the forge because they slow down the work.

@alicepbg2042

Күн бұрын

@@user-vg6sg7kh1q not every anvil has holes. the other tools that aren't being used can easily just be out of frame not in frame don't care, let cats be near a dwarf.

In general problem with modern D&D, both in art and writing, is that is reeks of modern west coast urbanite sensibility and culture. This is why they code orcs as Mexicans, and dwarfs as Portland baristas. But this is not flavor D&D should have. It should embody motives of the old continent before 1492, it should drove inspiration form pre columbian Eurasia and Africa, with possibly only slight undertone of renaissance in most urban areas, but noting more modern then that.

22:00 Mark saying that maybe D&D is trying to get more people to play orcs like WOW did with Blood elves and horde... No. WOW had a problem because it was an MMO and the game became globally unbalanced across thousands of servers when too few people were playing horde. D&D has no reason to care how many people do or don't play orcs. It wouldn't unbalance anything if nobody ever played orcs because the orcs "aren't pretty enough." The only unbalance would be if their stats were off-kilter, which maybe they are, but has nothing to do with the art. D&D wants to make orcs more human because they are turning D&D into "cozy" fantasy instead of swords-and-sorcery.

One fun fact, there are almost 0 orc enemies in official dnd adventures. Even on settings like Icewind Dale where they would be expected as a random encounter enemy.

The pike wielding story at the end cracked me up. Like a scene out of a Discworld novel. "The orc strode out of the kitchen wielding a vicious pike. The sight of it made Rincewinds empty stomach rumble and he could only imagine how it would taste freshly cooked with a side of chips."

Why is a monstrous orc considered offensive?

@brandon8667

6 күн бұрын

Someone people are saying they’re stand in for black people. Idk how saying “oh oops” and then making them look more human helps. That just needs to hand waved away.

mark is such a neutral party, im amazed at his way of thinkng

@yellotang

6 күн бұрын

Yes, it can be very annoying to always have someone say, "however........" I just want to scream at the screen "shut up!"

1:06:03 I remember looking at an art like that and as a kid who played Orcs in Warcraft II I went: wow, I could be a human, a thin human or a short human? Isn't that fantastical! I get Stephen's point that it is even more humanized now but dnd choices always were human only. You can have pretty much all of these bodytypes with real humans in real world. It is not fantastical at all compared to what settings like Starfinder could offer

The Mexican orcs are horrendous, imo. Totally anachronistic for the basic medieval fantasy offering of D&D. Unless One D&D has a DMG that includes steampunk or modern settings right off the bat? But anyhow, these group art pieces are just boring. Just not visually interesting. It’s flat.

I really liked the way Mark contributed with alternative views on the art, as in the dwarven characters. It's a keen lesson on keeping an open mind and don't rush to the first interpretation. I'll try to do that from now on. Thank you!

This was fascinating!, I missed it live because I was at the hospital, whish I hadn't!

I watched Eye of the Beholder and it was fascinating. My only complaints about it were that It had Satine Phoenix in it for some weird reason and when it started talking about how diverse the art was now I turned it off, but up until that point it was a great watch.

My guess art would be slightly better received if they say there San Citlán orcs from Radiant citadel. Mexican orcs in a Mexican setting. Don’t solve the looking too human problem. Also Radiant citadel needs more support. One anthology book, a small GMguild supplement on release and not sure what other unofficial projects after that? Has some potential as long as it’s getting some annual expansions.

this rate not gonna beat around the bush. alot of the new races designs in the upcoming book is on purpose to look neutral is (and lets face it) the equality standard on everyone looks equal. this includes minimize features like masculine/beautiful looks to be neutral features like rounder, softer, gentler appearences which you noticed for the arts. so yeah they sacrificed most of core known features of said ancestries to be more equal looking. its also appeal to artists that specs on oc (original character) pieces and commissions cause i seen that alot on twitter where ppl want their charfacters drawn to be used on their character sheet. commonly they dont go for big features like longer/thicker beards for dwarfs, rougher/larger tusks for orcs, wider/pointed features of gnomes and such. so they all look near the same besides changes to clothes and accessories. also comes down to if said indie artists knows how to do those features cause if they dont they do list on what they wont commission besides the obvious stuff like dont accept nsfw commissions and so on depending on artist. plus costs cause alot of those ppl charge less for detailed pieces vs the experienced artists that charge extra. of course for sure the ocmpany got a dei branch so this is mandatory on how its presented to the consumer and future products which to some degree its not bad, but it does mean sacrificing stuff like what i said above to achieve said dei goals by company.

@dungeonmaster16

5 күн бұрын

on opposite of this whats interesting is in japan they are going opposite. most japanese media been slowly going for more beastlike look of humanoids then the typical "im the typical anime character with animal ears and maybe tails/hands and light tufts of fur! rest of me look exactly human!" tropes. recent one ppl recognize is orcs from dungeon meshi/delicious in dungeon especially showing those boar like traitso n them like the tusks, nose, ears, the light layer of fur with fur patterns like boars/wild hogs got. to as far as even the kid orcs look like baby boars and wild hogs. in gaming sphere the recent expansion for final fantasy 14 dawntrail brought in female hrothgars which are lionlike humanoids. but way they design hrothgars they do look near like the male and female lions. this kinda causes debate on ppl complain they want the female to look cuter or like the migote aka catfolk aka typical anime looking human character with cat ears. to that i say @#$! off to those ppl demanding that for the female hrothgars. back to dungeon meshi what makes the designs of many races good is ryoko kui is a MAJOR fantasy fan be old and new school themes. there is a twitter post that brings up an interview she did earlier this year on influences with she mentions legend of grimrock (2014) and a old school game called dungeon master (1987) that featured dungeon food which became name of her series. dont know if autodelete if link it but look up ryoko kui twitter interview and it should pop up on google. note on her bio its not much but ppl say she is in her early/mid 20s which shocks me, a person that young knows THAT MUCH classic fantasy games and media and the stuff she lists in that interview is baffling. im in my 30s and even i dont know much of those, to steve and mark, especially steve i wonder if they knew any of those stuff she referenced.

I saw some of the new D&D art and I'm not sure if it's just the two pieces I saw but the characters had these psychotic open mouth smiles. Reminded me of the Joker. I felt like it almost ruined the pieces.

2.5 mins of silence ....

I was puzzled by the tagline of the video until I realized that I consider Lockwood's dragons the truest dragons.

The GM screen is awesome! Makes me think of the art style of Dragonbane.

GM screen was good.

I got a problem with black elfs only in the Tolkien context, because it goes against his writings. Now when it comes to black dwarves, I just ask myself how do people who leave in caves for generations would develop melanin in order to be black? I just think there is no explanation whatsoever for this.

The ad we need for the Red Box Warrior: kzread.info/dash/bejne/n2V8qaSAfpSpedI.htmlsi=8kHgIYB5st15bhi9

Oh Stephen, you sweet summer child

you know, there's only so many times you can say "This doesn't bother me, it's fine" and be believable when everything you bring up is followed by saying that

did Gary Gygax think EPT was the best rpg ?

Dungeons and Discord had a theory about the "female" warrior That it was actually a cover up to distract from more outrageous news from Hasbro at that time For example, the removal of A la Carte in dndbeyond

how many of the dwarves in the hobbit were male ?

Listening to Mark carefully walk around any type of gender slight while talking.

So basically these are the Mexican elves? Which monster are they going to make into the asian elf?

Who is making the delicious at wotc this is so far off the reservation off the range for a fantasy roleplaying game I wonder what gygax would think

More moral gate keeping in RPGs. Reminds me of the Satanic Panic.

You guys struggling to understand and discuss WotC's motives with the Orcs and the gender-swapped D&D art and calling it everything else but what it is... was extremely awkward. I know you don't want to step onto the cultural warfare woke/anti-woke landmine, but I mean... guys... you stepped on it by bringing up the art in the first place. The culture war stuff is clearly the motive.

@nonyabusiness890

5 күн бұрын

Very well spoken.

Agree, it can be distinct and modern. And it can be more varied. As stories have become way more varied

People are boring that's why the most played old race and class combo is human fighter. Also most people play and connect to what looks familiar to them that's why we see faces in everything. That also why we have majority of fantasy books/shows/games and ect with the main character/ majority are human, elf or human with different color skin and horn. More different you get away from human less people see themselves in the creature.

el orco the mexican goblin ? .... not thinking outside the box ....

Humanizing orcs can actually be super dangerous. Calling people orcs can be used as hate. (Most commonly against Russian people. Set the politics of that war aside, we shouldn’t call Russian people orcs.) Is making them more human taking the wind out of it as a slur? Or since it’s a preexisting slur and any cultural expressions that parallel anything in real life be problematic. Idk seems difficult to navigate. Idk if humanizing orcs is the right call if they’re trying to make things inoffensive

I'm sad about your dog mr Glicker, that's just bad news...

The other thing art does is signal who the game is for. After seeing that orc art, it's clear they're not making the game for me anymore. I hope there are enough preteen girls out there to keep the game afloat.

Wait who's getting offended by Orks?

@JediNiyte

6 күн бұрын

The woke grievance hobbyists running the show at WotC get offended by EVERYTHING. It's the only thing they love more than hunting istaphobes where they don't exist.

@sketchasaurrex4087

6 күн бұрын

The flood of 5e players being weirdos

@toxiccandy7888

6 күн бұрын

@@JediNiyte What's offensive about orks?

@Q_Cooper

6 күн бұрын

@@toxiccandy7888 some people claim orcs are a racist analog for black people, despite the fact there are black humans in the lore

@GldnMnky

Күн бұрын

The same kind of people offended by magic and summoning demons I the 80's.

please understand that Tolkien wrote fiction if you can't handle that you need serious psychological help.... jrrt spent time in south Africa ..... onwards and upwards and beyond

Watching these Videos and I get really frustrated at the constant inturruptions from Mark Seifter. why does he always ask Stephen a question and then cut him off? The guy needs to learn to shut up when other people are talking.

That art is awful 😅

please understand that Tolkien wrote fiction, if you don't like his orcs it is you that is wrong....

GREEN HUMAN SHORT HUMAN POINTY EAR HUMAN CHILDLIKE HUMAN

@Thenarratorofsecrets

3 күн бұрын

RED HUMAN WITH HORNS SCALY HUMAN

That whizkid mini is an abomination of Elmore's work, and an insult to real D&D players. It was indeed designed to enrage real D&D players, to drive them from the game. Micro-wotc hates anyone over 40.

My memory is telling me in AD&D there was a magic item called a girdle of masculinity/femininity. If my memory is not playing me tricks could that not be the answer to the Larry Elmore warrior?

Russell Crowe sadly *thinks* he can sing. His band is awful.

Why was Mark trying to gatekeep people’s opinions on Twitter at the end there? Not cool, dude.

@badmojo0777

6 күн бұрын

gatekeeping ? is that when poeple wioth opinions compain that someone elses opinion invalidates THEIR opinion? :P

I think the art is pretty good, and the art director has talked about the reasons behind their art choices.

Stephen comes off looking like a grognard here in the most derogatory sense.

Sounds very much to me that you really know why they did all these changes but dont want to bring up the real reasons..Its just so weird and the orc art is managed to really get offensive by making orcs look like mexicans

dislike because the cover art was never meant to be nebulous