No brainer. Should have been awarded. The issue is that the ref made the call which means his split second decision becomes more important than 4 minutes of slow motion replays.

The on field decision was that the ball was held up, meaning by implication the ball has to be over the line so the TMO should not have needed the clarification of the ball being on or over the line. All he needed to see was grounding which was 100% there. The no try call made absolutely no sense.

@Malky24

3 ай бұрын

There's no point trying to point out the obvious when the entire situation is nonsense. It was a try clear as day. Scotland should've won the game. It just needed the ref to override his prior decision and say it was a try, It's happened many times before, but he bottled it. Horgan is never going to argue in favour of the Scots because he clearly has issues with them for some bizarre reason. Maybe Ryan Wilson hurt his feelings one time or something.

@johnmc3862

3 ай бұрын

@@Malky24It wasn’t clear unless you had your own personal camera. The ref was closest with probably the best angle. Theres no reason he would not have given it he had seen it.

@johnmc3862

3 ай бұрын

100%.

@James-qi1ip

3 ай бұрын

@@Malky24 yeah i cant understand why the ref wasnt able to chime in. They usually always do when they see a replay in other circumstances. He put all responsibility on the TMO shoulders. I'd say he didnt want to put any input into the decision making process just so he could avoid all responsibility

@powerbite92

3 ай бұрын

@@johnmc3862 did you watch the England Wales game? did you watch Wayne Barnes in the WC final? did you watch Craig Joubert in the 2011WC final? or the 2015 QF? or telling umaga in 2005 to 'leave' BOD 'alone' then running for the airport the very next morning? rugby refereeing was always a little corrupt but now the problem is metastasizing. the job of Irish media is to tell the public to ignore the corruption and look away, it helps them that they have so much animus against Scotland..

Utter disgrace of a decision. As a Scotland fan I have partially fallen out of love with the sport after this. Genuinely dreadful game management.

Thing is the TMO clearly said the ball had been grounded. And then seemed to pull back from that - maybe Shaun Edwards gave him a nasty look or something.

@Karma-qt4ji

3 ай бұрын

The TMO needs to do more than just see it is grounded; he needs to ensure that it was grounded, legally, over the line, before the whistle blew. Can you state with 100% accuracy that all of that happened? Nic Berry is a shit referee, but he called it held up and by the position he was in, we assume (as did my commentary) that it was on the shoe of the defender, and he blew his whistle while still in that position. How do you know that the movement to the ground was not after that? Also, I don't have a shred of empathy for Scotland... they were shit in the second half, preferring to play aerial ping pong rather than rugby, with Russell catching the ball, standing still and then doing the pointy-pointy at every French player in an attempt to milk a penalty, before simply hoofing it back. That's two games into the competition and two second halfs with a total of 3 points scored, but they think they deserve the win? Not to mention the bullet they dodged with the high tackle by DvdM to prevent what would probably have been a try.

It should be proof of holdup.. Not proof of grounding.

@Karma-qt4ji

3 ай бұрын

So every ball that crosses the line and gets buried in bodies is now a try?

That decision has destroyed a potential Grand Slam showdown in Dublin on the final day. I’m Irish but that decision was weak and a disgrace !!!!

@ggpp4898

3 ай бұрын

Decision made by an Irish TMO....go figure.

@3108dd

3 ай бұрын

​@ggpp4898 An Irish TMO with his hands tied. It's the "On-field decision is no try" call by the ref that decided it. Exactly the same thing happened to Ireland away to France - France were awarded a try where the ball was blatantly dropped onto the line. But because the ref had said Onfield decision is try, the TMO couldn't overrule. Well it was also because the French tv director was farcically unhelpful with the replays. But exact same deal - ref's fault and the TMO couldn't be 100% sure enough to overrule. The only difference is it didn't decide the result in our game, thankfully.

@user-st1du4ig8u

3 ай бұрын

@@ggpp4898 that has nothing to do with it mate. But I get that you are bitter about it !! Just a shit decision but we’ve all had them

These 3 clowns have a different answer every week based on Scotland - I have to sit here and watch this absolute biased BS - even Irish journos in the UK are seeing this for what it is

@patrickfarrell5092

3 ай бұрын

Why do you have to sit there and watch it? If it upsets you so much then do something else, it's only a feckin game of rugby ffs!!

@powerbite92

3 ай бұрын

rugby is being ruined and the lying media and world rugby are the reason

@seanon93

3 ай бұрын

It's called a conversation/debate. Scotland beating France was in their interest for the rest of the tournament.

Just watched a few of their videos on Scotland. And the hate is so weird. They seemed genuinely inferior to us even though they have a far better team than us. Constantly talk up other teams whilst playing us, and continually berate us. Weird behaviour. Pick on a team that is of the same quality, problem is, when you do that. You get knocked out in the QFs🤦‍♂️💔

Absolute brilliant point. When is there 100% certainty in many aspects of Rugby?

@johnmc3862

3 ай бұрын

When you can clearly see the ball touching down.

Sometimes you get robbed in your own home. What a shame for Scotland.

@user-jt7tg3sp7s

3 ай бұрын

0:32 awful game of rugby. 2 very average teams

@johnmc3862

3 ай бұрын

😅 No clear grounding mate.

@patrickfarrell5092

3 ай бұрын

I was looking forward to this game, always love the buildup at Murrayfield. But that game was a complete load of bollock, Scotland deserved to lose, not because they're a bad side but because they didn't put this mediocre French side away earlier.

@Karma-qt4ji

3 ай бұрын

@@johnmc3862 we finally agree.

@user-hw5by8oy5d

3 ай бұрын

Mediocre French side. Wow all of a sudden they are an average outfit. 12 months ago they absolutely smashed England in Twickenham and now they are Mediocre. When they click they are unplayable at times and have also proved this against SH teams which the likes of Scotland and Wales have never done. Show some respect to the game ffs, every team in the world has been on the wrong end of a poor decision. Just get over it and show a bit of class in defeat.

What BS , any sain person knows that hit the ground

The referee and TMO are bang on, 100% correct. You can see the ball on a French player's boot, then there's a gap where you see nothing, then there's the ball on the ground. That's not a grounding. To overturn his on-field decision of "ball held up", he needs CONCLUSIVE evidence of a SCOTTISH HAND applying downward pressure to the ball in the in-goal area. Show me that conclusive evidence. Hint: It isn't there. Pro tip: the ball appearing to lay on the ground after disappearing for a few seconds isn't evidence of the above. It may well have been grounded, but we'll never know, because there's no conclusive evidence. Ergo, Nic Berry was correct not to overturn his on-field decision. As an alternate reality, had Nic Berry said on-field decision was a try, in order to overturn that he would have needed CONCLUSIVE evidence of some part of a French player's body holding the ball up. There wasn't any of that either. So the decision would have remained try. That's why the on-field decision is so important in 50/50 scenarios, and he couldn't just assume it was grounded. The only people who know if that ball was legitimately grounded or not were the handful of players there at the time.

@ggpp4898

3 ай бұрын

so why was the TMOs immediate decision was that the ball was on the ground.....then reversed it?

@qwerty69600

3 ай бұрын

@@ggpp4898 You're sounding delirious. Read my response again.

@qwerty69600

3 ай бұрын

@@garysmith5025 Well, it wouldn't be true if the ball had been lost forward and he'd landed on it with said torso - again, not knowable from the camera angles available. You're sounding delirious and over-excited here guy. Read my response again and take some time to digest it.

@user-hw5by8oy5d

3 ай бұрын

Man theres a lot of bitterness in these posts.

The game needs a good shake up. Over four minutes to decide whether it was a try or not only to give the wrong decision. Scrums taking up to to much time and the ping pong kickings from backs to backs, all making it a poorer game to watch.

@standelone1674

3 ай бұрын

Ur so right mate,give ref and tmo 60 seconds only, to make a decision.four minutes they took.what a joke

@howardedmunds1917

3 ай бұрын

@@standelone1674 cheers for the reply much appreciated

At the end of the day, people want the correct decision to be based on what you can see on video evidence. To them, it doesn't matter who makes the decision as long as the correct decision is made. In this case in my opinion it should have been awarded. I also feel the law on being held up should be reconsidered. The defenders now pull the attacker over the line, on top of them to prevent the try as they get rewarded for "good defence", but this can lead to serious injury(player safety should be first) and if any other players are attached it should be collapsing the mall. If an attacker is tackled, the tackler should release him first which usually gives the attacker chance to place the ball. With this scenario this never happens so the rules around this has too many grey areas in it.

'He couldn't make a decision if the ball was over the line'?!.....nonsense, he immediately called 'held up' which is only valid if the ball is on the line or in the try area.

Hahahaha now we need the TMO?! 😂😂😂

What everybody is missing is that "conclusive" does not mean 100% certainty. Within the context of the rule under consideration, "conclusive" means a rational conclusion beyond reasonable doubt based on the footage. The footage clearly shows the ball being place on a booted foot, then moving off the booted foot onto the ground. It is not rationally possible for the ball to have dropped as much as the footage shows if a hand or other human part had been between the ball and the ground. The only rational conclusion beyond reasonable doubt based on the footage, is that the ball was grounded unless you believe little creatures from outer space suddenly appeared and put their little hands or other body parts under the ball. What everybody is also missing, is that there was a mix-up between the Ref and the TMO. The TMO was waiting for the Ref to say: "I now see the ball moving off the booted foot and onto the ground; therefore my on-field decision must be reversed. The TMO would then have said: 'I agree'. Instead the Ref said words to the affect: "You are telling me that ...." this threw the responsibility back onto the TMO (and, under the rules, the Ref was kind of right to throw the responsibility back onto the TMO). The TMO being faced with the awesome responsibility, not having the Ref holding his hand, and not properly understanding "conclusive" as used in the rule, 'shat' himself given the massive responsibility that had been thrown back on him, and made an irrational, wrong decision which may haunt him for the rest of his life! Had the rules of the game been correctly applied, Scotland would have won that game of rugby.

The biggest issue here is that the refs are too lazy now, because the have the “luxury” of the TMO, to go digging in the ruck and look for a grounding, like they used to do. If he’d taken a couple seconds to actually go looking he could’ve seen the grounding with his own eyes.

How does law 13 apply? Is a player on the ground but not in possession of the ball still in play?

Quand les images ne montrent rien ce serait plus juste de donner l'essai à l'équipe qui franchit la ligne... When the images don't show anything, you should give the try to the team that crosses the line... that would be less unfair.

The point is the ref called the ball grounded watching replay but still didn't call it.. then tmo says ball grounded after it was on foot then dithered and said he couldn't call it.. never once called whether on or over line. Farce..

Also Scotland scored a try which shud not have been allowed.. high tackle by Van de Merve no TMO call.

I personally want the bunker system removed it is only going to cause more controversial moments. Plus the ref should make his/her own choice. The amount of time it took for the person in charge to give the tmo the footage is to slow happened twice in the English v welish game and also the welish v Scottish one to

In previous years they had 2 questions.. Try..yes or no Any reason I cannot award the try

Irish TMO involved in a game that effects Ireland that isn’t right

in cricket umpire makes decision which can be overturned by TMO this works

the process is right but the TMO is blind, the ball was clearly grounded. everyone including the French can see that, only the TMO cannot. TMO needs disciplinary and suspension and retraining.

We love the TMO and the laws during SA vs All blacks but we don’t like when it’s used in the six nations. Waaaghh!

If the ref cannot make the decision then the TMO makes the decision. Simple.

It was probably a try, but since neither the ref, nor the TMO had a clear view of a grounding, no try. It needs to be conclusive. If the shoe were on the other foot, one wonders if people might have a very different opinion.

This was entirely about the language used by the referee, nothing else. The real kicker is results that hinge on decisions like this hugely affect ranking positions, and ultimately the draw for the next RWC pools. If your aunty had balls!

@michaelbroderick6830

3 ай бұрын

Draw will happen in 2026

@scooter0012

3 ай бұрын

@@michaelbroderick6830 Granted, but ranking points are accrued now.

@scooter0012

3 ай бұрын

There are failings on two counts. Firstly, the grounding was clear and a try should have been awarded. On the basis that the couldn’t evidence that, then the second offence is by Tuilagi lying over the player preventing clear release. That is a penalty to Scotland and a yellow card, and the question then becomes should a penalty try be awarded?

@johandevilliers4471

3 ай бұрын

​@scooter0012 I mentioned that elsewhere in the comments here. I fully agree with you. I like the French team, but I believe in fairness. There's too many grey areas here. The in-goal area is not the dead-goal area. Laws still apply here, there's a few things wrong about the whole matter of being held up. Tackler usually never release the attacker, which prevents him from placing the ball and if any other players were binded to the attacker, it should be collapsing the mall.

The hypocrisy of this is so funny 😅

1) grounding is assumed, the interaction ball ground is not visible, itis assumed. 2) we must see the player pressing the ball down to validate the try. None of the first 2 points could be seen by TMO: back to on-field call. Biggest issue for me is the major offside fromrussel to steal the ball from the french which was ignored…

If referee say held up, TMO needs to show that it’s a try. Nothing controversial here as no camera angle shows a grounded ball.. if anything looks like foot blocking the ball, nothing controversial here. In fact it would controversial to award a try if the defence had prevented a grounding. These are the rules of rugby!

@chrisfairfield1198

3 ай бұрын

Are you French or just blind?

@paulie.walnuts2838

3 ай бұрын

Initially the foot was under the ball...then it drops off the boot onto something with grass on it but not the ground 🙄 . You clearly didn't watch all the angles 😄

@chrisfairfield1198

3 ай бұрын

@@paulie.walnuts2838 spot on actually. Didn’t notice the army of ants holding the ball up. Lack of angles made that really hard to see

It's a try and wrong decision scotland deserved the win and a pitty this is the talking point of a awesome game.

Everyone watching knows it was a try. Rugby has become a laughing stock when a TMO says yes Nick, ball is grounded, let me have another look ... well can't see every blade of grass and my lunch is ready and my best mate Pierre says the ball clearly videoed on the ground over the try line might not be a try, given the shadow of Mars cast through the moon ... no ... no evidence that the ball on the ground under a Scottish chest is on the ground ... eh ... let me look at this ball on the ground again ... could be on top of and ant, or maybe a leaf ... can't quite disprove that ... must be worms under the soil of Murrayfield so I am going to say the ball you can see grounded is not evidence of a grounded ball and therefore no try. I would recommend the TMO and ref look to becoming Tory MPs as they are just as honest and just as intelligent.

@arlenejackson403

3 ай бұрын

😂😂👏👏

@powerbite92

3 ай бұрын

💯

As if the Scottish don't do enough crying already, this will keep the chip well stuck tk the shoulder fir many years to come.

Was a try

Tmo must make decision and not the ref Scotland win

Accept the ref is the guvnor.

Matt Williams....uuggghh...lets just take the ref out of it and use AI

What a clown show.

To answer the title: cause TMO's doesn't have the b4lls to do that. Italy was robbed when the TMO didn't wanted to see the Mitchell double movement. Scotland was robbed today.

@theojenner1902

3 ай бұрын

There was no Mitchell double movement, what have you been smoking

@solinvictus1234

3 ай бұрын

@@theojenner1902 A British fan said the same thing to me under the comment section of the extended highlights of the match. I given it the minute of the immage highlights and he agreed to me, it was double movement cause the Italian player hehind him tackled and holded him from the leg. So a full tackle, so Mitchell should have released the ball on the ground before to pick it up again and start to running again. It's an illegal try. Period.

@theojenner1902

3 ай бұрын

@@solinvictus1234the Italian player had not held on to Mitchell long enough to deem it a tackle. It is also to the discretion of the ref what is and isn’t a tackle and he adjudged it to be a non tackle.

@solinvictus1234

3 ай бұрын

@@theojenner1902 The time Mitchell fell, the tackle is deemed done at 100% that's rule say, that no is not at refree discretion. There's no minimum time to held a player, when a player fell on the ground and at least 1 or 2 players are helding him, he should IMMEDIATELY release the ball on the ground. If he want to continue to go into the line he can pick up again the ball and start running if he can do that, but he can't advance, once tackled, keeping the ball in hands, otherwise he will commit double moement that is actually what Mitchell did.

Don’t know what point the pundits are trying to make. Anyone with two eyes and brain can see that ball is grounded. The angle where Berry is looking at the ruck, you can clearly see the ball is grounded before he blows. Terrible officiating. Terrible TMO. Pundits have the voice, that are able to call out decisions like this, so maybe we can move forward with our game. But instead they protect referees saying “it’s a hard job and you’ve got to feel for them”. In any over job in the world, that sort of gross incompetence you get the sack.

@powerbite92

3 ай бұрын

the referees' job is to ruin rugby, media's job is to protect the referees while they do it.

@chrisfairfield1198

3 ай бұрын

@@powerbite92 sickening mate. Problem is players and coaches can’t come out and say that it was a bad call or slag anyone off or they are hit with fines or called “bad losers” normalise calling out shitty refereeing. Calling someone out for making an outrageously shit decision isn’t bullying or abusing someone. Snowflake society

@powerbite92

3 ай бұрын

@@chrisfairfield1198 I'm not a Jordan Peterson fan but, when he rinsed Kathy Newman on Channel 4, C4 said 'we've called the police!'.. well, skippy-doo C4, what were the police's findings? .. radio silence thereafter. its a big club, committed to taking over our beloved sports and all we will hear is official double-talk while they do it.