I had no idea what this even meant until I watched this video. Born again two years now and the Lord has blessed me with so much knowledge and understanding. I enjoyed this video. Thank you and glory to the King, Jesus Christ.

Dr. Chou! One of our favorites! As the dad of two Master's U online students, Dr. Chou has become very dear to us. Not only through the university and the prof's who teach, but Dr. Chou's classes and his leadership have been used by God to sanctify my family. Master's U is a "must go to" school. Thanks, Costi, and thank you Dr. Chou.

@princessleia8550

4 ай бұрын

Agree. Our daughter was a student at TMC( before became to TMU), she learned so much from the Godly men who taught God’s word in chapel and Dr. Chou was one of them. We’re so thankful to God for the college( it’s worth every penny even though we had to pay international tuition).

That was such a clear biblical answer to something that's important and can cause such division. Thank you from South Africa

@Ricardo-kv5tk

4 ай бұрын

Lekker to see my fellow South Africans in Christ !

@CourtneysCoinLaundromat

Ай бұрын

I am a continuationist - I would differ from John Macarthur and Master's on the gifts although Bethel and other places often spout heresy. I believe eschatology is more important than the study of the gifts or pneumatology - in other words holding eschatology in common is very important especially these days. Post-mill teeters toward heresy.

Excellent. I appreciated this dialogue between Chou and Hinn. The elephant in the room is the fact that Israel is a nation today. (Rom. 11 and NO, I would say very few Jews are believers today - but you got to have a nation before you have a Remnant. (Zech. 13:8) I could possibly see embracing an a- or postmil position before 1948. But once God (who is sovereign over all things) brought Israel back on the scene (against all odds) it's beyond me why any non premil didn't completely abandon that ship.

Dr Chou is one of my favorite at TMS

I’m Postmillennial, but I appreciate our brother’s love for Christ and his word. I agree that we all want to continue to learn together. Come, Lord Jesus.

That was an interesting discussion. “We should all be learning together.” How true.

Fantastic Biblical explanation of Pre Mil/Disp, brothers Abner and Costi! Thank you much!✝️📖 Glory to Yahweh!

You should have Sam Waldron on and let him give you his position from the Amillennialism point of view

This is very interesting. I’m in the UK, and here and in Europe most “reformed” Christians and Protestant denominations are ‘by default’ amillennial. Those who are reformed seem unaware that it’s even possible to be premillennial, to believe that God still has promises to fulfil towards Israel, to think Jesus will literally reign on earth from Jerusalem, etc. Sadly, it shows they don’t study the Scriptures for themselves, and are not open to learn.

@danielwarton5343

3 ай бұрын

Hey mate, I’m in England too and really struggle to find people who are reformed in their soteriology but are dispensational too. The churches all seem to be either Arminian or reformed or don’t even want to touch these subjects.

@blulacez4421

3 ай бұрын

I am reformed and preMill in Dublin Ireland. But you're right, most of the reformed over here are Amill.

@timmason925

3 ай бұрын

I’m English and there are loads of pre mills around! Also lots of amillenials believe in a revival amongst the Jews! And please don’t make sweeping statements that amillenials don’t study the scriptures. We do a lot, you only need to look at the quantity of material produced by lots of the puritans many of whom were a or post millennials!!

everyone thinks what they believe is "biblical" but clearly they can't all be

Just under a minute in, and I think it's very important to clarify that pre-mill does not imply dispensationalism. Historic Premillennialism, which is non-dispensational, is the earliest position of the church, and that fact is even affirmed by staunch Post-mill brothers such as Joel Webbon. While the topic of millennium is certainty a secondary topic, I think it's important to be accurate when we have discussions.

I disagree with you guys but still love the gospel you preach!

Still Post-Mil, but great video.

Luke 17:20 -21 "And when He was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come. He answered them and said, The kingdom of God does not come with observation. Neither will they say look here or look there for the kingdom of God is within you."

@counting-blessings

4 ай бұрын

"But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. Or else how can one enter into a strong man 's house, and plunder his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will plunder his house." (Mat 12:28-29)

Thank you for this clarity and…not playing background music.

Dr. Chou! Definitely more than meets the eye.

I love my premill brothers and sisters. Keep it if you must. Just keep living like you're postmill. 😊

@ArugaPH

4 ай бұрын

❤

Hope u interview James White for post and Voddie for Amil

@judithmargret5972

4 ай бұрын

michael gently, Why would Costi interview them. He's premill also. Lots of other places you can get their beliefs

@mariosangermano

4 ай бұрын

​@judithmargret5972 I don't think James White is premillenial. He's an elder at the church Jeff Durbin is pastor, and Jeff Is hard-core post millenial.

@mariosangermano

4 ай бұрын

​@@judithmargret5972 Also Voddie Bacham is 100% A Millenial

@judithmargret5972

4 ай бұрын

@mariosangermano I didn't say he was.

@mariosangermano

4 ай бұрын

​​@@judithmargret5972you said , " why would he interview them he's premil".

so clear and succinct. Thank you Dr Chou.

Fantastic teaching! I’m saving this video on my KZread account. I passed this teaching on to a friend of mine who is a-mil.

Thank You Costi. This is such a good topic. I have been milling over this very topic for the past few years. Helps clarify some things.

@sphtu8

4 ай бұрын

So, you've been "milling" about this? A-milling, Pre-milling or Post-milling? 🤣 Just kidding! God bless.✝️

Okay I don't know how he got premillennialism out of Daniel 2. He said that the rock would come in what was clearly Rome. Then a kingdom would grow into a mountain. He immediately said that's premillennialism. If the came in 30 ad and the kingdom started that is not premillennialism. That doesn't happen according to dispys until some date way out in the future so they are talking about a second coming, this is clearly talking about his first coming. Idk how he skipped right past that then just assumed pre mil

At 8:25 Dr. Chou makes a great argument... for postmillennialism. Let me explain. 1) The kingdom comes after Christ enters the world, which He has already done. The Premill view would argue that this is only after the second coming of Christ, which there is no Biblical evidence of. 2) He says that the kingdom is physical. Well, first of all the premill view believes that the kingdom will come due to a war in which Christ returns and wipes out all of His enemies. However, that is not consistent with Scripture. Jesus mentions multiple times that His kingdom is "not of this world" (meaning not like this world, or does not operate like the kingdoms of the world, that is to say that He does not take over by force or militarily). Now the postmill view agrees that the kingdom is physical, which is why we have been given the direct order from Christ to go THEREFORE and baptize all the nations teaching them to obey all that He has commanded. The kingdom is here now and the church is responsible for spreading the kingdom. 3) "Israel is Israel" is a misinterpretation of all of Scripture. All who are descendants of Abraham are Israel. Who then are the descendants of Abraham? Those who are spiritual descendants of Abraham and NOT physical descendants of Abraham (Galatians 3:29; Romans 9). 4) One of the most egregious beliefs of premill-dispensationalists, is that the Jews are going to rebuild the temple in the future and restart the physical animal sacrifices. Not only is there NO mention of this at all in the New Testament, but it is a completely blasphemous act of the Jews. Jesus came to fulfill the law. He was the once for all sacrifice for sins. The Lamb of God. It was finished when He was crucified. To reinstate the physical sacrifices is to disregard Christ's sacrifice altogether. People, I could go on and on as to why the premill-dispensational worldview is unbiblical. I was a premill-dispy my whole life until I finally decided to listen to the arguments coming from Postmills. After a year of study, I was convinced that the postmill view is accurate and that the premill view is completely inconsistent. Please, do your own research. And that means, listen to the guys who actual advocate for the other position, don't just listen to your favorite premill pastor try to explain away the postmill view, you will get nowhere.

@alexkelley6064

4 ай бұрын

Israel and the church are distinct and Israel has a future…Romans 11

@amosmgz

4 ай бұрын

@@alexkelley6064Romans‬ ‭9‬:‭6‬-‭8‬ ”...not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.“ There is only a distinction between Israel and the Church in the sense that one is the physical descendants of Abraham and the other are the spiritual descendants of Abraham (those who are in Christ). But that is all... If you do not put your trust in Jesus as your savior, you have no place in His kingdom at all. Therefore, the TRUE Israel is the Church, the faithful people of God.

@usaflambert

4 ай бұрын

@@alexkelley6064 could you explain?

@kyleruggs

4 ай бұрын

Oh brother. Christ has already entered the world a second time? Where is He? Scripture asserts several times that the kingdom comes after Armageddon. Not that hard to figure out. The point of Romans 9-11 is a future historical example that God keeps the promise of salvation to those whom He gave it to. Hence, if He doesn’t save Israel in the future at some point, you have no reason to be confident in God. And finally, the third temple is LITERALLY discussed in the last 9 chapters of Ezekiel. The animal sacrifices are said to be for a memorial, exactly like communion. First Corinthians 11 says it’s for a memorial.

@usaflambert

4 ай бұрын

@@kyleruggs 1) I didn't say that Christ entered the world a second time. That's called Judgment Day and that IS a future event. 2) Please, provide the exact scripture that says that the millennium comes after Armageddon. 3) Your understanding of Romans 9-11 is completely skewed. Israel is all who believe in Christ. Not physical descendants of Abraham, but the spiritual descendants. I would actually argue that it's the dispensationalists that do not have confidence in God, considering that the Great Commission tells us to disciple the Nations, and that the gates of Hell will not prevail against us, yet you believe that we are going to fail that commission and that is why Christ has to return to Earth because the world just continues to get more and more evil, the complete opposite of the gates of Hell not prevailing against us. 4) The temple spoken about in Ezekiel was rebuilt and then finally destroyed in 70 A.D. 5) 1 Corinthians 11 says absolutely nothing about animal sacrifice. As a matter of fact, there is not a single verse in the New Testament that even alludes to animal sacrifice ever being re-established. Animal sacrifice was specifically established to signify the severity of sin and the requirement of a blood sacrifice to atone for sin. Jesus was the total fulfillment of this sacrificial system (the Lamb of God). Therefore, not only would there be no reason to re-establish the animal sacrifices, but actually it would be blasphemous to re-establish blood sacrifices to God because it would be a complete denial of Christ as the One for all sacrifice for sins. You've been indoctrinated into a false zionist belief system, friend. I highly suggest that you do your own digging into alternative eschatologies and stop taking your eschatological marching orders from John "we lose down here" MacArthur or Jonathan Cahn[man].

premillennial post tribulation

Just joined your channel. What an amazing and even encouraging message! This was a fantastic video and worth every second!!!

Having looked at all the views and seen the arguments for and against them I find Amillenialism the strongest.

@joshhopper5551

4 ай бұрын

I've been dispensational pre-mill for my entire walk, I think it makes a strong argument. However, I'm starting to lean amill the more I look into it. I'm okay with being wrong, but I don't think post-mill has a strong ground of the three.

@FRodriguez_

4 ай бұрын

⁠@@joshhopper5551if you want an amazing book read Chilton’s commentary on Revelation.

@changjsc

4 ай бұрын

Same!

@1lebero

3 ай бұрын

I did the same and saw all the arguments for and against and I found Premillennialism the strongest.

@fundyden4771

Ай бұрын

​@1lebero Same. When you look certain verses you can only take it literally you can't take them symbolically. For instance the mark of the beast you can't sell or buy etc and there is many more like that.

More Please....... Good stuff

Thanks Dr Chou

need this discussion to continue

But, John MacArthur literally said “we lose down here”.

@DeepDiveDiscipleship

4 ай бұрын

Just curious...did you listen to the sermon that came from or just the clip?

@toddstevens9667

4 ай бұрын

And? … Is that a problem for you? What do you think John MacArthur means by that? Do you think that that position is inconsistent with the Bible? I’m assuming that MacArthur is distinguishing his position from that of post-millennialism, which, at least in broad terms, believes that the Christian church will usher in some sort of Golden Age in which much of the world population will be won to Christ through evangelism and Gospel presentation. In the post-millennial narrative I suppose Christians are winners. In the pre-millennial narrative I suppose we are losers … at least in so far as winning the world to Christ through Gospel proclamation. Do you disagree with his position? I’m genuinely curious. I’m not being argumentative at all.

@BurntBeatz

4 ай бұрын

And what do you think he meant by that?

@toddstevens9667

4 ай бұрын

I do. To both questions. But I’m not sure that such things will usher in this golden age that post-Millennials think is going to happen. But I certainly do my part. 😁

@toddstevens9667

4 ай бұрын

@@AgeDeo2009 Let me rephrase. It depends on what you mean. I do not believe that Bible tells us that the church will win the nations to Christ. Christ wins the nations to Christ. Christ is the winner, so to speak. But it is incumbent on us to make disciples of the peoples of all nations. As I write this, I’m taking a break from moving 300,000 Gospel tracts and Gospel of John’s into a warehouse to be distributed in Mexico. That is, in my view, making disciples of all nations (or at least one of the “all nations”). So yes, I do my part. I bought this literature with my own money, am delivering it 2 hours away to a warehouse, and am financially supporting the ministry that will distribute them in Mexico. And this evening I will be preaching at a local rescue mission and will be doing street evangelism this weekend. So yes, I certainly try to do my part. Nonetheless, there are no such things as Christian nations, only Christian people.

Amen brother, Praise the Lord ..i belive what you belive !!🙏🤗

Thank you gentleman.

I appreciate and respect and love all of my brothers and sisters and can't wait to see you all on the new earth! I am however, hesitant to say that any one theory is wholly true and correct....history supports this understanding. Given this pattern of errant methodology I urge you all to walk humbly and mercifully when approaching this ambiguous, yet very important doctrine of eschatology. Spread the gospel! I love you all!

I found Gregg Strawbridge’s “exegetical case for postmillenialism” and Gentry’s “He Shall Have Dominion” very helpful free resources for a through postmillenial exegetical framework. When I was premillennial, I didn’t really have quality postmil scholars to interact with!

How you can you teach the perpescuity of Scripture and dispensational premillenialism? It's so clear that no one figured it out until the 1800's???

I appreciate the humble presentation. It is interesting that Daniel, among many other passages, showed me the major flaws in dispensational premil eschatology. That being said, thank you for sharing your perspective.

@Thinking-Biblically

4 ай бұрын

I have just begun to look into these things can you tell me what you mean by your statement? What about Daniel

@BenTrotterNZ

4 ай бұрын

@@Thinking-Biblically I would highly recommend listening to Pastor Doug Wilson, Dr. James White, and Pastor Jeff Durbin to understand eschatology. Ps. Jeff Durbin is a really solid place to start and it is where I started 2 years ago! I used to be pre-mill hardcore, and became thoroughly convinced of post-millennialism. kzread.info/dash/bejne/mWifupKlpLe_f5s.html

@BenTrotterNZ

4 ай бұрын

@@Thinking-Biblically One important verse to think about is to look at Matthew 28:18. And ask yourself, what does it mean for Christ to have all authority on heaven and earth now?

@counting-blessings

4 ай бұрын

Daniel 7 is not about coming down at His return, but about going up (ascension and inthronisation). Also there are a couple of biblical, historical and logical mistakes in the interpretation of the 70 weeks.

The stone that grows into a mountain, just like the parables of the mustard seed and leavened lumps of dough, describes a kingdom that grows gradually. How does this line up with the premil dispy position?

@AgeDeo2009

4 ай бұрын

It does not. The Lord Jesus Himself ushered in the Kingdom His Incarnation (Matt. 12:28). Matt. 28's Great Commission also says "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given unto Me. Therefore go and make disciples..." Christians need to realize and live out this truth in their lives if they are to witness the power of God in transforming the world. 🙏😇

@hondotheology

4 ай бұрын

it do not #postmil

@kyleruggs

4 ай бұрын

Why does the referent (mountain) have to be interpreted with a sense of growth and not a sense of immovability? The latter fits the context SO much better. Daniel is talking about the eternal and permanent nature of the kingdom as compared to the others. Furthermore the text doesn’t say anything about the mountain growing. Where did you get that idea from?

@David-kd1rw

4 ай бұрын

@@kyleruggs by brother, Daniel 2:35 reads “the stone that struck the statue became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.” Both growth and immovability are appropriate ways of understanding this mountain based on the immediate context. I was trying to connect this to the greater biblical context that beautifully fits with the Postmill understanding of the Kingdom that began with the first advent of Christ. The premil dispy understanding seriously devalues the significance of the first advent of Christ, specifically His ascension, current reign, and work of the Holy Spirit who is convicting the world of sin and righteousness.

@AgeDeo2009

4 ай бұрын

The question is do all Christians today TRULY believe and live out the truth that ALL authority in heaven and on earth have already been given to the Lord Jesus Christ, following the example if the early church? Are they REALLY doing Christ's mandate of discipling the nations too? I doubt it. The only logical explanation for the Great Commission is its triumphant fulfillment through the church to welcome back the King of kings and the Lord of lords! Maranatha, Lord Jesus! 🙏😇

Just remember.. from min 1 to 6th min, it's not a premil stand. It's the view of everyone. Now let's decide from there who's consistent with that.

Luke 17:20-21 Being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, he answered them, “The kingdom of God is not coming in ways that can be observed, 21 nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.” Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world” (John 18:36, ESV). ‭‭Daniel 7:13-14 ESV‬‬ [13] “I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man, and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him. [14] And to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed. ‭‭Acts 1:9 ESV‬‬ [9] And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight. ‭‭Philippians 3:20 LSB‬‬ [20] For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, Jesus' Kingdom is here now. Jesus received His Kingdom when He ascended to Heaven (look at Daniel 17:13-14) Jesus ascended to Heaven in Acts.

@FinalEvangelist

4 ай бұрын

Exactly. Dispensationalism is a heretical doctrine invented in the 1850’s that twist scripture’s leads millions astray.

I’ve tried to find a premil/dispy argument that was articulated well for awhile now. Thank you for your thoughts. I find that this explanation has more firmly grounded me in the reformed/amillennial camp.

@counting-blessings

4 ай бұрын

Same here 😊

@mariosangermano

4 ай бұрын

​@debbyjack check out John MacArthur 6 part sermon series " Why every Calvinist should be premillenial ".

@counting-blessings

4 ай бұрын

Thank you. I grew up in a very dispensational church and I became Amill not because of a lack of knowledge but because I understood it well enough to discover mistakes, poor exegesis and lack of scriptural context or even contradictions (2 Thess. 1, 2 Peter 3, John 5, ...)

@logankolarick1646

4 ай бұрын

@@mariosangermano I’ve listened to that before. You can’t really call yourself Calvinist/reformed and be premillennial. I don’t see MacArthur as reformed at all.

@mariosangermano

4 ай бұрын

​@logankolarick1646 That's a lie. JM is a Calvinist, I'm a Calvinist and premillenial Dispensationalist. If you study the Abrahamic, Mosaic, and Davidic covenants and the other books I mentioned, the premillenial view is 100 % Calvinist. Unfortunately many of those who hold to the doctrines of grace got eschatology wrong. Election and predestination 100 % support premillenial Dispensationalism. Go and study.

The stone was not cut with human (physical) hands like the other components of the statue, not sure that passage is the right one to argue for a physical kingdom.

Amen my brothers, And nowhere in scripture [according to this old saint] is our premillennial illustrated more CLEARLY than in Revelation 3:10.. "Because thou hast KEPT the word of my patience, I also will KEEP thee FROM the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth". ..I'll see you there [in paradise] ...or in the air.

This guy is sharp!

@bobiggy1162

4 ай бұрын

Extremely so! We get to see and hear Abner much here at GCC✝️📖🙏🏾

@Gurgzz

4 ай бұрын

He’s the smartest human being I have witnessed

@bobiggy1162

4 ай бұрын

@@Gurgzz Yes Sir! He is very wise and an exceptional Expositor of our God’s Most Holy Word. Very Blessed!

We should not be using the word “Calvinism” for the Doctrine of Election. Calvin did not properly understand eschatology, but it doesn’t mean his other doctrines (election) are wrong. Scripture is clear when it’s taken as a whole. This is an outstanding analysis, and I’m so thankful for it!! Thank you!

"I'm a pre-millenial dispensationalist because Johnny Mac decided to make a tertiary issue a primary issue and I don't want to lose my job" --what he actually said.

How about a brotherly conversation/debate hosted in the Apologia Radio between these two and Jeff, Luke and Zack?!

@1lebero

3 ай бұрын

Because they want to ARGUE and shout and show they have the "truth" and prove you wrong. Who wants to sign up for internet drama?

This is soooo good!🙏❤️✝️

What about historic pre-mil-post-trib belief?

Christ's time on earth fulfilled this prophecy in Daniel where the stone cut without human hands crushes the Roman empire. This is the Gospel of the Kingdom of God, in which all true believers belong and are ambassadors of. Through the centuries, the Gospel's influence has grown, positively influencing the world, becoming a mountain that will cover the whole earth, a fulfillment of the same prophecy. Thus, our need to continue with the Great Commission. 🙏😇

Such a breath of fresh air! Thank you

I’m postmill not because I’m tired of leader ship, and post mail, because I believe that’s what the Bible teaches from cover to cover.

@leviwilliams9601

4 ай бұрын

Based ❤

Asking for a friend - so during the millennium what Bible will be used? How will Hebrews be preached?

@marcushoward7414

4 ай бұрын

Basically Jesus seated satan at the cross and Revelation 20 shows how he’s a wounded lion, unable to deceive the nations. Now the gospel goes forward since Pentecost saving people from all nations

I take everthing literally so the Kingdom must be physical. Jesus: “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.”

After reading some of the comments i am still amazed at how idol worship has become widely accepted within Christianity. Elevating and promoting men that are completely Fallible is unacceptable and we are warned to avoid such practice.

I would be interested in an examination of Fighting for the Faiths, eschatology 101 video. He accuses JMac of making up the premillennial belief and that no one in history ever believed that.

"Christ comes before the kingdom" but Christ came and said "all authority has been given to me" that's a kingdom. a king has authority and Christ has all authority

@DeepDiveDiscipleship

4 ай бұрын

Already and not-yet...

@TheMudSlinger

4 ай бұрын

I think the parable of the talents in Luke explains this.

Awesome!!

this is so funny. chou basically present the postmillennialist position "Christ came and toppled the Roman empire" then turns around and says he's premillennial. Christ toppled Rome with his body the church, a physical, historical kingship, which continues to grow in power and influence _right now_

There are two camps in pre mill Circles, dispensational and historic, One believes the rapture and then tribulation, the other believes tribulation then the rapture. There is also a lesser known position...mid trib-ers.

clearly Biblical. God Bless you both!

I don't have a dog in this fight as I've largely not worried about it and am really just now beginning to take end-times discussions seriously. However, the answer was never really given, which is disappointing. Basically, it boils down to, "I see it in the scripture" not "the scripture teaches it." That's my problem. For example, the Dan. 2 passage speaks of the stone coming then growing into a mountain... why do we assume that the stone coming is the second coming and not the first coming of Christ? From Daniel's perspective, the first coming of Christ would be part of 'end times.' as well. So, having not given a clear exegetical argument from the passage, I don't see how one can claim it teaches the second coming before the unshakeable kingdom. Also, Hebrews 12 seems to speak of the kingdom that cannot be shaken as something we are already a part of, something 'not made' and therefore cannot be shaken. Daniel echoes this imagery that God will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. Daniel also says that this kingdom will be set up "in the days of those kings." If we are going for literal, historical and grammatical interpretation, shouldn't we consider that context? Yet, Christ's kingdom is both now and not yet. It is here, it has been established by his first coming during the times of the kings of Rome. It will also one day be in that He will be physically seen as ruling. I have a hard time embracing pre-mil dispensationalism because there is just so much that seems to be assumed that I don't think is clear. I honestly don't think anyone has a firm grasp on it not because God is trying to be secretive, but because that is the nature of prophecy. Very rarely in scripture do we see people being able to discern when prophecy is being fulfilled. Usually, you see them recognizing it (through the Spirit) after it has been fulfilled. I think it will be much the same with the end times prophecy.

@Goodfight7

3 ай бұрын

Even though you said you don't have a dog in this fight... you have more discernment than you realise.. this was amazingly said!

After listening to John MacArthur 6 part sermon series, " Why every Calvinist should be premillenial " and Reading Gregg Harris' books, " The expositors handbook of the old testament, and The expositors handbook of the new testament, and doing a study of the Noaic, Abrahamic, Mosaic, and Davidic covenants with a literal grammatical hermeneutic, AND, reading Isaiah, Daniel, Ezekiel, and especially Zechariah, and Joel with the same literal grammatical hermeneutic, as I would all of scripture I became a committed premillenial/ Dispensationalist, because that is what scripture teaches. God did not give us clarity for the beginning and middle, and then confuse us for the ending.

Luke 17:21, The Kingdom of God is in your hearts. How’s that “physical “? Luke 17:20 the Kingdom of God is not coming in ways that can be observed. If the Kingdom came 2000 years ago, when did it leave?

😮

"For a thousand years in your sight are but as yesterday when it is past..." "The sun shall be turned to darkness, and the moon to blood, before the great and awesome day of the LORD comes." " For the Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath.” One day equals a thousand years. About six thousand years have passed since Adam and Eve. Christ is the lord of the Sabbath and will reign the last thousand years of man. It's already written out for us in scripture. The time of man will be seven thousand years total with the last thousand being the physical kingdom of God made on Earth. 6 days almost done, with 1 more to go.

Post mill and infant baptism for the win ❤

Revelation 19 brings a major problems for this view. Who’s alive on the earth for a third temple, does the Scriptures record that everyone is dead that denied Christ? I encourage everyone to go read it, also Revelation 5-7.

The third temple and reinstating all the Old Testament sacrifices just really throws me in the premil view.

@isaacmaue-tg7kl

4 ай бұрын

What third temple?

@lindsaysimplified

4 ай бұрын

@@isaacmaue-tg7kldispensationalists take Ezekiel 40-48 to say that there will be have to be a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem (complete with animal sacrifices). This is where Satan will institute the mandatory worship of the Antichrist.

AMIL all day but I dig it.

haven't even watched this yet, but FINALLY if the premil folks don't step up and start preachin, postmil is gonna take over without a fight

@davec2oo8

4 ай бұрын

@dianneclark3442it has to spiritualise all the places the NT authors say “soon”. Which is a lot.

@bjqb1108

4 ай бұрын

You living under a rock? You think only post-mils and amils preaching?

@billybob-wx2re

4 ай бұрын

@@bjqb1108 they're the only ones preaching and debating their eschatology

Need the whole session! 😁

4:13 what about dual authorship of divine and human?

This sounded like an argument for postmillenialism to me 😂

Pre Mill is Bunk. Historic Pre, Okay, respect. Dispensational.......brooooo yikes Jesus himself preached, "This age and the Age to Come." Its this and then THAT.....and thats all Folks

@markteter342

4 ай бұрын

Read Matt Waymeyer’s Amillennialism and the age to come

@the1der

4 ай бұрын

@@markteter342 thank you, brother. Would you happen to have a good recommendation for the Amill partial preterist view of exact scriptures/prophecies that were fulfilled and those that a partial pret are still waiting for?? I'm trying to really become acquainted with them.

@jdc1264

4 ай бұрын

@the1der you are full of bunk and your view is uneducated

So if I subscribe to premillennialism, I have to affirm that when Christ returns that death will not be swallowed up in victory, but that there will be a literal thousand years in which death continues. So if, as a lost person during the literal millennium, I turn to Christ, and I am saved…. What happens when I die? Do I then go to heaven where Christ is not? Also, if the millennium is literally a thousand years, then won’t we all just mark our calendars to know that it’s all going to be lost in a global rebellion? Jesus, sitting in a temple made with human hands, will look at his Apple Watch, and say, “Well, it’s year 999, so this is all about to be over”… I’m not asking to be snarky, I’m asking because I’m passionate about the Bible and theology, and for a long time I was convinced of the premill view, but I have seen it is incoherent when examined in its entirety. A more consistent view with reformed theology, is the view that has Christ’s second coming the final climactic event in all of redemptive history, where death is defeated, all flesh raised to be judged, the just and the unjust. And he will separate the sheep from the goats.

@Be_Still_And_Know946

Ай бұрын

1 Cor 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. Paul is explaining the principle of RESURRECTION BODIES and moving from corruptible, mortal bodies to incorruptible and immortal. This happens for believers at the rapture (we shall not all sleep but we shall all be changed) when death shall be swallowed up in victory. As for the millennium being literal, see ISAIAH 65:20 'There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall DIE an hundred years old; but the SINNER being an hundred years old shall be accursed. 21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them'. There is no death in heaven and no sinners, so this has to take place on the 'new' earth (v 17), not the new earth Peter and John spoke of where righteousness dwells. Also the judgment of the sheep and goats is not the same as the great white throne judgment. If you read it carefully you should see the differences.

Costi, does your church use Mr. Abners LSB translation?

Disagree with brother chaus interpretation of daniel. Christ talks about His kingdom as a real kingdom but that is not of this world and hence is not like the ones on this worlld, that has came, is between us, but is yet not here, in its fullness. The parable of the mustard seed talks about how from the tiniest seed, it became a large tree. It seems much more likely that the rock in daniel is equivalen to the mustard seed, because to say that is not, means that the millenial kingdom, when Christ comes, would have to spread around the world. This is one of my problems with dispensartionalism, how much literalism do we act on, and how much are we inconsistent on?

Interesting Dr Chou mentions Daniel 7 the one like the son of man . Well Jesus we im the gospel says that He’s The son of man and that many of those ( standing in front of of him ) would not see death before he came in power and mentions Daniel prophecy . I respect Dr Chou ( I’m nobody ) yet because I study as well and see different perspectives I believe Post mill is correct , not because it’s “cool” but because it’s consistent . I’d recommend books on the matter by Kenneth Gentry and Gary Demar and even RC Sproul among others . The Lord be with us all !!

Premil and Postmil are within orthodoxy. However, if you are serious about Bible-based, Christ-centred scholarship, consider reading "Revelation: A Shorter Commentary" by Beale, G. K., Campbell, David. It is among the very best resources to date on the last book of the Bible. It is based on Beale's 1000+ monograph, and makes a solid case for (a)millianialsm. This position is also within orthodoxy. Blessings to you, Pastor John

@gdot9046

4 ай бұрын

Thank you dr MacArthur

@jokatim

4 ай бұрын

Thank you for your clear accurate information. I hope many on this thread will follow it. I would also like to add that while Premil is within orthodoxy, Dispensationalism is not. It calls for 7 modes of salvation in 7 dispensations and the reintroduction of animal sacrifice which is blasphemy. I say this because I was raised in the teachings of JND and was made fully aware of this doctrine. Praise God he has freed me from its grip.

Amillennial view makes the most sense. Premillenial view is just a couple hundred years old.

@ShepherdMinistry

4 ай бұрын

Dispy premill, yes.

@Pugilist928

4 ай бұрын

Historic premill is the truth

@BurntBeatz

4 ай бұрын

The name, yes. But not the teaching. It is actually the oldest

@beauchal

4 ай бұрын

False. Premil was roundly the belief of the early reformers

@mariosangermano

4 ай бұрын

​@@beauchal Go and do a study of the Abrahamic, Mosaic and Davidic covenants, along with Ezekiel, Daniel, and Zechariah, Romans chapters 10, 11, 1 Thessalonians, 2 Thessalonians, and then read Revelation, all with a literal grammatical hermeneutic and you will see it goes all the way back to scripture because the apostles taught it. That's way before the reformers. 😊 I would appreciate you not giving a knee jerk reaction answer, but literally go and study what I posted, then form an opinion.

Dr. Chou is a genius.

How can resurrected glorified people exist at the same time as normal sinful dying mankind for 1000 years?

@YeshuaisLord524

4 ай бұрын

Christ did so for 40 days.

@gdot9046

4 ай бұрын

@@YeshuaisLord524good point. I should have asked “who are those people who have avoided the judgement and continue in the flesh”. Jesus makes clear that when he comes again flesh and blood will not enter it the kingdom of god nor will they be given in marriage. Those living when Christ return will be either judged or resurrected.

Good explanation and I gre but don't answer the question if the Milenium is literal or the Milenium mean Christ Will rein forever

do the other views not think that all glory and honor and such belong to Christ? I fail to see how that part of his answer pertains only to premillennialism

Just because someone claim to be Israel means that they are, and if they then claim that every reference to Israel is about them, then we are on reeeeaaaaallly thin ice methink. Premill Disp. is just about 100 years and if we dont place the events mentioned in Revelation to the time that the book are witnessing, were doomed to carry with us an eschatology that fits into every age to come. Remember, Jesus Christ is king NOW and he has been king ever since the Ascension.

What if I reject your “consistently literal hermeneutic”? If you limit how you interpret the Bible (in a way not even the NT writers did), of course you’re going to come to the same conclusion every time. This is circular reasoning.

What does premillinial mean?

@Be_Still_And_Know946

Ай бұрын

It means that the millennium (the thousand year reign of Christ on earth spoken of in Revelation 20) is yet future. This is the view I hold to.

Who is now the King of Israel in John 1:49? Is the King of Israel now the Head of the Church, and are we His Body? Why did God allow the Romans to destroy the Old Covenant temple and the Old Covenant city, about 40 years after His Son fulfilled the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34 in blood at Calvary? Luk 11:20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you. A Millennium Puzzle to solve… Will Christ be conducting funeral services for mortals killed in accidents 500 years after His Second Coming? The “first resurrection” in Rev. chapter 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the Book of Revelation, because the two witnesses are resurrected from the dead in chapter 11. There are two different types of resurrection in John chapter 5. There is a spiritual resurrection from the dead in John 5:24, and a bodily resurrection from the dead in John 5:28-29. Does your view of the Millennium agree with what Paul said in 2 Thess. 1:7-10, when Paul said Christ returns in "flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not obey the Gospel? The fire comes at the end of Rev. chapter 20. Does your view agree with what Peter said in 2 Peter 3:10-13, when Peter said this earth is going to burn and "dissolve" when He comes as a thief on the day of the Lord? The fire comes at the end of Rev. chapter 20. Does your view agree with what Paul said in 2 Tim. 4:1, when Paul said both the living and the dead will be judged at His appearing? The time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some and destruction for others is found in Rev. 11:18, right after the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible. (This verse also proves the Book of Rev. is not in chronological order.) The judgment of the dead is also found at the end of Rev. chapter 20. Does your view agree with what Jesus said in Matt. 25:31-46, where He described the judgment of the sheep and goats, which leaves no mortals alive on the planet at the end of the passage? There are also no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Rev. chapter 19. Does your view agree with Peter in 2 Pet. 2:4, and Jude in Jude 1:6, when they both said wicked angels are already in chains of darkness? Does your view agree with what John recorded in Rev. 9:1-2, when an angel comes down from heaven with a key to unlock the pit, which means the pit was locked before that time? Are there wicked angels already in the pit in Rev. 9:11? John recorded angels already "bound" in Rev. 9:14. The beast "ascends" out of the pit in Rev. chapter 11, which means the beast was in the pit before that time. Take all of the above and compare it to the symbolic language found in Rev. chapter 20, and the fact the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order, and you will have the truth. ================= Multiple Second Coming Visions in Revelation: (book not in chronological order ) Christ returns one time in the future. However, there are several different visions of His return shown from different perspectives in the Book of Revelation. Christ returns at the end of Revelation chapter 6, with signs in the sun, moon, and stars, as are found in the Olivet Discourse. Those at the end of the chapter are hiding from the wrath of the Lamb. Why would they be hiding if Christ is not present? The "kings", "captains", "might men", "free", and "bond" are also found in chapter 19 at the return of Christ. He returns at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, and the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:15-18. The beginning of chapter 12 is a history lesson containing the fall of Satan, and the birth and death of Christ, who is the seed promised to crush the head of Satan in Genesis 3:15. The Second Coming is found in the "harvest" of chapter 14, which is related to the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew chapter 13. He comes as a thief at Armageddon, and we find the greatest earthquake in history in chapter 16. This occurs when the 7th angel pours out his vial. How powerful is an earthquake which moves islands and destroys the mountains? What is happening to the planet? He comes on a horse in chapter 19, right after the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. Chapter 20? Does He come with the fire, and the judgment of the dead at the end of chapter 20, which agrees with what Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and 2 Timothy 4:1? (The time of the judgment of the dead is also found in Revelation 11:18.) There are no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46. Why does an angel come down from heaven with a key to unlock the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:1-2, if the pit was not already locked before that time? Are there wicked angels in the pit in Rev. 9:11? If the beast "ascends" from the pit in Rev. chapter 11, where was the beast before that time? Does your view agree with Peter in 2 Pet. 2:4, and Jude in Jude 1:6, when they both said wicked angels are already in chains of darkness? Revelation 9:14 proves some of the angels were previously bound in some manner. Because the two witnesses were bodily resurrected from the dead in Revelation 11, the "first resurrection" at the beginning of Revelation 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the book. The principle of "Recapitulation" means there are multiple visions of His return.

@counting-blessings

4 ай бұрын

Very well written. I grew up dispensational/pretrib/premill and this is exactly why I am amill now. I also studied Daniel 9 and found a lot of biblical, historical and logical mistakes in the dispensational interpretation of the 70 weeks. Actually, Daniel 7 is about Jesus ascension and inthronisation and not his second coming.

@SpotterVideo

4 ай бұрын

@@counting-blessings The following proves you are correct about Daniel 9. Based on Hebrews 12:22-24, the Messiah’s death in Daniel 9:26 cannot be separated from the New Covenant fulfilled by His blood at Calvary. See the words "church" and "mount Sion" and "new covenant" and "Jesus" and "blood" in the passage. Are we supposed to believe the angel Gabriel appeared to Daniel to reveal the timeline of the Messiah who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and then the angel failed to even mention the New Covenant. Or, is the covenant with the many in Daniel 9:27 the same covenant with the many in Matthew 26:28? The 1599 Geneva Bible is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America, before John Darby showed up on our shores about the time of the Civil War. What was the earlier understanding of Daniel 9:27 found below in the notes of the 1599 Geneva Bible? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dan 9:27 And he shal confirme the couenant with many for one weeke: and in the middes of the weeke he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the ouerspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, euen vntill the consummation determined shalbe powred vpon the desolate. Daniel 9:27 And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. (a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles. (b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection. (c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.

Jesus said my kingdom is not of this world. John 18:36-38

@Be_Still_And_Know946

Ай бұрын

If you read the rest of the verse you find the word 'now'. Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. The disciples understood that Jesus would set up His future kingdom on the earth when they asked Him Lord will You at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? (Acts 1:6) Jesus did not refute what they said, but told them It is not for you to know the times or the seasons which the Father has put in His own power. And He taught them to pray Thy kingdom come, thy will be done in earth as it is in heaven (Matt 6:10). Zechariah 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

It’s a fair question right out of the gate: How could someone with an education hold to premillennialism? 😉 Juuuust kidding 😂

i am noticing a massive rise in Amillenialism & Preterism? Why?

@jokatim

4 ай бұрын

Because it comes from a simple reading of the text without the chopped up version that the Dispeys use when they say that rightly dividing the word is literally dividing it into separate portions that are only for certain generations. We’re realizing that the word is one book from cover to cover and all speaks of Christ.

@alexkelley6064

4 ай бұрын

They make no distinction between Israel and the church. Israel has no future for A and Pret

@davec2oo8

4 ай бұрын

People are checking it out and discovering a much more coherent and straightforward approach to the text.

@joeymayorga2544

4 ай бұрын

I stand with preterist, all things have been fulfilled. Jesus said this generation will not pass until coming of the son of man. His apostles said the time is near and hour at hand. Did God lie to them, does God not know time.? Are we still under the law.? Jesus said the old covenant will not pass away until all is fulfilled. Paraphrasing, us getting sucked out of the universe is nonsense. They wrote to the people of first generation not to us here in America. People should not short change God of all his works

It is amazing to me the level of biblical ignorance on this topic. (When I was first saved I too was post-mil (ignorant) because I'd read Revelation and understood the second coming without understanding the timing of the Rapture, the purpose of the Tribulation, and the Church Age.) Fortunately, I was also blessed to have nagging doubts about my beliefs and spent hundreds of hours studying the WHOLE scripture alongside many commentaries on various viewpoints. The Holy Spirit opened my eyes to the truth, as He is always faithful to do when we ask Him to do this for His glory. People are not just ignorant; they are hostile, lobbing overt attacks against those of us who hold fast to the Bible's words. Sadly, bad theology leads to serious spiritual and moral errors. Most people who disclaim the premillennial teaching have never read the Bible (or cherry-pick it) and get their viewpoints from false teachers, with an agenda, who practice eisegesis, not exegesis.

@guyfromage

4 ай бұрын

Sweeping generalization there as if people can’t have honest, biblically-informed disagreements.

@troyanderson1650

4 ай бұрын

Dude! Ignorant?!? Haven't read the Bible?!? Don't look now, but your pride is showing...

Historic premillennial = post trib

Appreciate this man's passion, but he's a terrible exegete. The way he handled Dan. 2 and 7 was brutal. This is what happens when you load an OT passage with a specialised interpretation of Rev. 20, instead of allowing later Biblical texts to inform our understanding of earlier texts on the same subject matter, which is the way the Bible's written.

I like both of these guys. But this didn't answer the question at all. He just said he believed the bible is true in what God Intended and basically gave no explanation of why he is premil. Kinda disappointing because I was looking for a good explanation

I'm glad he pointed out Isaiah 19. I'd like to add that we shouldn't forget Isaiah 56, the foreigner keeping the Sabbath. Have a blessed seventh-day Sabbath this evening😊

@Thinking-Biblically

4 ай бұрын

Only commandment not repeated in the New Testament. The 4th

@marriage4life893

4 ай бұрын

@@Thinking-Biblically Are you saying the Sabbath isn't valid because it isn't repeated in the new testament according to your understanding?

@Thinking-Biblically

4 ай бұрын

@@marriage4life893 no I'm saying Jesus is my sabbath rest not just on Saturday but every day.

@marriage4life893

4 ай бұрын

@@Thinking-Biblically Great. So that Sabbath isn't invalid as you said. We can worship daily and all keep the Sabbath holy just like Jesus exemplified. Thanks.

In the words of MacArthur "we lose down here". In the words of Jesus "the gates of hell shall not prevail". I remind you that gates are defensive structures. Going from Premil to Postmil was like going from Arminian to Calvinist. Big paradigm change once you see that the timing indicators of judgement "soon, near, time is short, the axe is at the root, this generation, etc" happened as it was told in AD 70. Also, you must ask if the great commission given by the Lord will be a success or not. Will all nations be baptized in the triune name of God and brought to obedience to Jesus? In premil, this mission will sadly fail.

@jeremyzitzow4417

4 ай бұрын

Matt. 7:13-14, Matt. 22:14, Luke 18:8. Only from our perspective would the mission fail. God has chosen His elect. Does He not have the right to choose as many or as few for salvation as He desires? Knowing this does not limit my desire and fervor to proclaim the Gospel on the streets of my city weekly.

@philipmurray9796

4 ай бұрын

@@jeremyzitzow4417 will all nations be baptized and taught obedience to Jesus?

@jeremyzitzow4417

4 ай бұрын

@@philipmurray9796 "All nations" is not referring to every single person in those nations, but rather some people within those nations. It is clear from Scripture that those who find salvation will be in the minority.

@philipmurray9796

4 ай бұрын

@@jeremyzitzow4417 a 'minority' such as a great multitude that no man can number from every tribe and nation? That few people?

@jeremyzitzow4417

4 ай бұрын

@@philipmurray9796 Yep. Over the course of human history, many will be saved. But that doesn't mean a majority. Matt. 7:21-24 makes it clear that many will profess to be believers only at the Great White Throne Judgment to be turned away from Him. Postmil does not leave room for the fact these verses describe many false converts will be around through human history. Even during the Millennial reign of Christ, when He rules the nations with an iron fist, there will be false converts. But the great thing about the Millennium is evangelistic efforts will be much better than the church age and more people will be saved. The ultimate question is: Does Christ return to a saved world? Or does Christ return to save the world?

After examining the Scriptures, I find the Word of God the strongest. You are not seeing the truth; you see that you are, in essence, dictating. And while you are discussing this to endless lengths, people are somehow still dying. And where are you? You are just lost in your “biblically based” assertions.

I’m pretty sure every teacher at TMU believes what they believe because John MacArthur says so…this belief has zero root in appropriate hermeneutics.