You guys really had fun editing this one, didn’t you? 😂 I’m all for it

I'm glad I'm not the only one who came down here to mention the mid-word transitions that are all completely flawless! This was such a great episode in a channel that is full of top notch content.

That high speed x-ray footage of thermal runaway came from Dr. Donal Finegan with the National Renewable Energy Lab. Check out that clip and more-like what happens when a nail punctures a lithium ion cell: www.youtube.com/@DonalFinegan

@metehan3795

Жыл бұрын

what is the battery you use while showing anode and cathode?

Excellent video, love the edits! Real question - The 20,000 gallons of water the fire department poured on the car, did it make any difference or did they just waste enough time for the batteries to burn themselves out naturally? I'm thinking the batteries are burning though a sealed, water proof casing. Is the water even getting to the source of the fire or are they just washing the seats and floor mats... and waiting for the fire to go out?

@ACSReactions

Жыл бұрын

While it's hard to say for sure, huge amounts of water are likely to help stop a battery fire faster than just letting it burn. First off, by the time you have a full on fire, the casing is ruptured, allowing water in. Second, the water doesn't have to make direct contact at the point of the ISC, it just has to pull enough heat away from the battery to break the positive feedback loop that's providing energy and oxygen for combustion.

@asteria4279

Жыл бұрын

I was thinking the same thing. Maybe just keep the surroundings cool enough to not cause other damage? I have seen firefighters let a lost cause burn itself out and just concentrate on prevention of spreading.

@farhanaahmad408

Жыл бұрын

How would sand or clay do to put out fire?

@SuperLocrian

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, I was wondering if something other than water could be used - of course, I realize that the general firetrucks carry water as do hydrants.... and the Fire Fighters would have to be notified they were going to an EV fire... But hypothetically (and chemically) is there some foam or something better for the job?

@mareksolenis1596

Жыл бұрын

@@SuperLocrian Vermiculite works on such batteries, question is how it will work with a car?

Your editing and seemless dialogue cuts are really well done.

First class explanation of the battery fires. The thermal runaway is similar to the runway of an explosion.

Per my dad (engineer) "I only need to understand something 70% to do something useful with it" (explaining the difference between scientist and engineer).

@prapanthebachelorette6803

Жыл бұрын

Omg so true lol 😂

Kudos for the safety glasses and gloves when disassembling the battery. I'm guiding it was discharged, but still you had me nervous for a moment

@ChannelNews1

Жыл бұрын

as a mechanic I discuss the problems with electric vehicles in depth on my home page vid.

man, your voice is perfect for talking. legitimately the perfect voice for explanations and teaching.

This channel is criminally underrated

This was fun and informative. Thanks!

There are currently about six Lithium battery chemistries. LMC is often chosen due to its high power:weight ratio for EV’s and are subject to thermal runaway. LFP (lithium iron phosphate) batteries by contrast are NOT subject to thermal runaway, and furthermore have about five times the number of charge/discharge cycles. If a battery is to be placed inside a structure (house, RV, boat, etc) then LFP chemistry is the prudent solution for both safety band longevity. 😎

Another amazing video! You guys rock ❤

Excellent content as always - but that creepy murder basement with a... tub?

Excellent video. Thank you

Good presentation. Thank you.

Excellent, well-deliverd presentation. I actually learned a few things. 👍👍

@MrDaiseymay

6 ай бұрын

SO DID i , LIKE, i DIDN'T UNDERSTAND A WORD OF WHAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT, BUT, IT WAS FUN,

Love this video! I’m currently designing a product that requires a lithium ion battery for power, and I’m planning it with 2 redundant safety protection measures.

@ValMartinIreland

7 ай бұрын

They are a fuel but they also produce a lot of oxygen which increases temperature.

Editing is top notch. Good job y'all

@ChannelNews1

Жыл бұрын

as a mechanic I discuss the problems with electric vehicles in depth on my home page vid.

"electrically insulating, chemically conduction" Mind-Blown!!! The missing link on my understanding on WHY separator works since most explanation visualize it as "holes" to let Li go through but not electron, which does not makes sense to me since electron should be so much smaller than whatever elements... has been always wondering how a material let something bigger go through but blocking smaller thing. But what does that mean "Electrons are way too reactive to travel through materials on their own"? 🤔

Best frame in this whole video is the dog walking in

The reaction also increases with the pressure, pressurize a cylinder and the temperature increases, it becomes an explosive circle.

the water they use on a EV to put them out does not actually extinguish the fire! It is simply trying to contain fire till the cells burn themselves out.

Very very interesting and could hardly have come at a better time. Hurray for human ingenuity! Let's try and use it wisely.

Great video!

The smooth, near perfect, transitions mid sentence 👌 New sub

So interesting, other than the design of the battery itself, they could in fact try cooling the fire faster, say with dry ice or liquid nitrogen! Do you have any thoughts about this?

@FloydMaxwell

4 ай бұрын

I had a similar thought. Biggest problem is that the fire is in the battery pack, which is always installed at the bottom of the vehicle (to keep a low center of gravity). So you can get water or other cooling agents to the battery directly. In short, the water is almost completely useless, and liquid nitrogen might not be much better. And then you'd have to keep a substantial supply of it on hand, in a tank you could tow behind your fire truck? Logistics are difficult, to say the least.

Grate , Grate Lessons , many, many thanks för your vidio

Wow what an awesomeness channel! Just checked last 4 uploaded videos and subscribed

@ChannelNews1

Жыл бұрын

as a mechanic I discuss the problems with electric vehicles in depth on my home page vid.

Water doesn't put out EV fires. Water keeps the fire from spreading until the material is exhausted.

Fantastic and entertaining video sir! I have sent a few li ion cells into TR intentionally and not. The white hot sparks that are emitted with a Fully Charged cell are a sight to behold. Reminds me of thermite reactions. Think about high Nickel cathode chemistries. The Ni0 is callandered on to a sheet of Aluminum which is the positive current collector. .. according to the web Ni0x and AL powder also make thermite... so u see where I'm going with this. Another observation is that below 50% state of charge the cell usually vents Without the thermite fireworks. In a discharged cell much lithium has been transfered to the cathode. I suspect that Li is more strongly bonded to the oxygen than Aluminum, and this prevents the Aluminum from from reacting with the Li loaded Nickel oxide? Your comments please sir.

1:42 - "LIQUID HOT MAGMA...!!!" (A. Powers/M. Myers/Dr.Evil voice)

Awesome vid

11:30 sodium battery? Doesn't that mean a whole lot of extra fun with firefighter water when it does eventually light on fire?!

Im getting really good at catching these mid word transitions.

Okay firefighters, I’m a chemistry teacher and an Army veteran. Here are my questions: 1) How are you CURRENTLY trained to extinguish a BONA FIDE alkali metal fire such as burning potassium or sodium? 2) Has ANYONE explained to you that EV fires may fall into this category? 3) What happens when you add water to an alkali metal? That’s it. P.s. Fire departments might want to explore carrying 20-30 gallons of liquid nitrogen in a dewar on fire trucks precisely to deal with things like this. (It reduces heat and oxygen really well.)

I like your video, I have subscribed it......a must action!!!!!!

great video

How can this only have ~800 likes..??? the footage is awesome and the explanations clear.. Well you got my thumb, nice work!

This is good -content- -entertainment-. I'll have a subscription thank you.

Also, can anyone explain that sodium natrium conundrum to me? Does it relate to the the missing I in Al and if so how so?

Lithium Ion batteries were first tested in 2 way radios during the Vietnam war. Thermal runaways had stifled commercial introduction for a long time. I experienced the changeover on video camera equipment where the so called memory effect of Ni Cad cells had to be eliminated. They built in computer chips to correctly charge and discharge them. Portable music players like the Ipod used them and paved the way for introduction into cell phones. Even the Boeing B787 has a blow hole on the side of the fuselage. New electric cars are designed to vent to the bottom giving occupants time to escape.

@ALucas73

7 ай бұрын

John B Goodenough invented the lithium battery in 1976. The Vietnam war ended in 1975.

I think it's time to create a saver battery... New innovation will be needed...

that was great video

@ChannelNews1

Жыл бұрын

as a mechanic I discuss the problems with electric vehicles in depth on my home page vid.

Nice!

I have those bateries in the ring bell cam, 1865 ... Is it dangetous for house ?

Electrons don’t move much (4 cm/min). The energy passing thru bouncing between the forces around the electrons is what gives voltage-current.

Are Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries safer? Or are they immune from thermal runaway?

Very interesting and thought provoking. How dangerous is it to allow personal electronicaI devices on aeroplanes or in our pockets for that matter. On a sartorial note, I wonder which companies are beneficiaries of trousers (pants) for adults which don't reach the waist; is it manufacturers of trousers by saving of material or manufacturers of pants by increased sales?

with a process of thermal runaway process there is really nothing would make any difference until the process is over fact trust me on this one

Amazing information and EXTREMELY helpful. Well done. It does make me think....if this kind of runaway is understood to be REAL why would we allow these things to be produced UNLESS we first, in the interest of public safety, see an effective method of combatting the flames? Water douses gas fires pretty quickly but this nightmare needs a better solution......and if it were ME I would have had a hold on any production of these things until the fire departments and us in general had Fire Extingushing solutions available to make this all safe. NOT GOOD> we are a world of fools

PUZZLING---WHY WASN'T THIS DANGER DISCOVERED DURING THE TESTING PHASE ?

I'm pretty sure sodium is easier to get than lithium.

Do you ever feel like a linear equation trying to make it an exponential world 😅

pressure valve: so it's not a tech issue but a design one. And this is why research is well on the way to use an electrolyte solvent that isn't water. Ionic liquids are much much safer.

When an EV gets on fire does the level of battery charge affect the intensity or the duration of fire??

Is there more than one type of Lithium battery? I ask because its not just electric vehicle car batteries that catch fire, but also ebikes. And there's also lithium deep cycle batteries in solar stuff. So is there more than one kind of lithium battery? I've heard people claim that solar deep cycle batteries that are lithium are a different kind than lithium ev batteries... but it doesn't seem like that could be true.

Use foamtype fire extinguisher

@ScottO84

10 ай бұрын

Foam extinguishing agents are not effective enough at dissipating heat and cannot isolate the heat and ISC from oxygen.

The water didn't put them out. It (the fire) just died due to it using all of it's fuel and ability to remain self sustaining!! 🙂

GMG aluminum graphene. Zero chance of fire. Last 3x times longer. Charges 70x faster. Costs 4x less. Lithium ion batteries like an incandescent lightbulb. Solid state batteries. CFLs. Aluminum graphene battery. Like LED.

I'm wondering if EVs could be mandated to have a fire department port that will allow firemen to flood the battery compartment without having to tear the car apart.

How much energy is given off during burning than what is stored in use. For example, if a battery pack is 100 kwh, how many Kwh of heat are given off when the battery burns? 10000? 100:1?

Fun fact, when owners walks off you can pull the plug and toss it on ground OR plug in and charge on their bank account.

The 2 biggest EV manufactures are BYD - 100% lithium iron phosphate batteries (LFP) - and Tesla whose best selling models by far are the standard range model 3 & Y that now use lithium iron phosphate (LFP). Ford has also moved to LFP. LFP are far safer than Li Ion just Google byd blade battery nail test

You need to give your editor a raise

OK so converting my Prius battery from Nickel to Lithium cells might not be a good idea? You give me something to think about.

I'm gunna thumbs up this vid in hopes that it results in more ad revenue so the host can afford to buy adult shirts that fit properly...

@ACSReactions

Жыл бұрын

We appreciate your contribution to the cause.

@Chuzo1946

Жыл бұрын

Bahahah

@jolianijulianes5550

4 ай бұрын

Why USA government never think safety for People , from E V

@beachboardfan9544

4 ай бұрын

@@jolianijulianes5550 The US gov only cares about profit, not people.

@Guynhistruck

3 ай бұрын

​@@beachboardfan9544Humans, amirite?

The paper thing on board was distracting.

what exactly (what metal oxide and why) is contained in the cathode, that releases oxygen?

@javelinXH992

2 ай бұрын

It’s mostly the ones that contain cobalt oxide that are subject to thermal runaway. The cobalt oxide breaks down at raised temperature, releasing oxygen that then reacts with the electrolyte. If a lot of that happens, then it all gets out of control pretty fast. Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries are much safer - no cobalt oxide, but not immune to fire.

So, why is it that LiFePo batteries are supposedly so much less likely to catch on fire?

The mid-phrase cuts are so satisfying

@ChannelNews1

Жыл бұрын

as a mechanic I discuss the problems with electric vehicles in depth on my home page vid.

Macro- can fire departments have new technology created so they can use liquid nitrogen to put out the ev fire? Two teslas crash and catch fire. Spray with liquid nitrogen... would it work?

@ScottO84

10 ай бұрын

While it may be possible, the costs of such technology would exceed what most agencies could afford. The same pumper we bought for just over $800k in 2016 built today would cost ~$1.3 million. The costs have gotten astronomical while the tax bases have become less able and less willing to provide those funds.

The speaker should know 9V battery is not a Li-Ion battery. The problem is quite understandable for scientsts. They hope solid electrolites will give better batteries and grow of the lithium dendrites responible for short circuits will not take place.

@ChannelNews1

Жыл бұрын

as a mechanic I discuss the problems with electric vehicles in depth on my home page vid.

@williamlangley2044

Жыл бұрын

They do make a 9 volt rechargeable lithium battery

@lrmackmcbride7498

10 ай бұрын

They make both rechargable and non-rechargable 9volt lithium batteries.

Lithium batteries are thermodynamically unstable. When not if they fail they explode or go into thermal runaway and burn until all of the chemicals are consumed.

We shouldn't be using inventions we don't understand enough to make failsafes to and I don't mean like a mere pressure release when it's more complicated than that.

dry ice? couldn't that cool it quickly?

Everyone please like, subscribe & comment! Apparently this man can only afford child-size t-shirts? We must help him! Lol. Jk. Randomly found this video and ended up staying for the whole thing. Thanks

Lithium burns when you put it in water

have you heard of a project in China to double the tunnel for cars so that EV go into a separate one ?!

I guess they have to introduce negative feedback loop. Simple... 😀

Lithium is a helluva drug. Or something.

@ChannelNews1

Жыл бұрын

as a mechanic I discuss the problems with electric vehicles in depth on my home page vid.

@williamlangley2044

Жыл бұрын

Back the 80s it was nick named the suicide drug .

The hip-hop beat with the Korean newscaster sounds like an unintentional K-Pop song. Wait... I'm the only one who thinks so? Just me..? No, yeah... I-it's cool~ Yeah, right... It's fine. Carry on.

@kucami1

Жыл бұрын

You're not the only one. I thought it was cool too. Just didn't know how to put a finger on it! Also, how did you decide on that awesome screen name?

For the Swedish research "Putting out lithium ion batteries with plain water in a short time", there's kzread.info/dash/bejne/Zqyepsamppvbos4.html video that shows how they are looking at coping. Some of the issues are unfamiliarity and 'lack of practice' (see #1). Regular vehicle fires can be much worse, but they are familiar and not newsworthy. The ship fires are interesting as they carry on regardless (i.e they have been happening for decades). The LashFire study webinar kzread.info/dash/bejne/q55rmLWRfdXFn84.html has some real (live) fire demos - the main issue isn't the fuel but the plastics and rubber in the vehicles. Finally there's likely to be a shift to the LFP technology which is a positive temperature coefficient chemisty so doesn't suffer the same thermal runaway problem as Li ion.

Thankfully Sodium Batteries will replace them this year

Statistically, ICE vehicles are more likely to catch fire than EV's, but is that just because the ICE car population is on average much older? It is far more likely that an old ICE has faulty wiring or fuel lines than a newer ICE car. Since most of the EV vehicles on the road today are relatively new, perhaps that is why they are less likely to catch fire. What will happen when there are many times more EV's on the road, and their average age is a lot older? Also, the older the EV is, the more likely it will be that the battery pack has sustained some damage. Look at the EV's in Florida that were flooded in the recent hurricanes. They are ticking time bombs.

So I'm guessing when it is burning in your driveway your garden hose ain't gonna help

All the Water it takes not Good .

Enough to make me never own one of these.

or could be now...

So a 9V battery is an actual battery and not a cell?

@lrmackmcbride7498

10 ай бұрын

Correct

The water did not put the chemicals battery fire out.The battery burned itself out.

He is wrong, six cells is still one battery. A battery by definition is a container containing one or MORE cells.

Scientists - we really don't know what's going on with these batteries. EV makers - lets put a few hundred billion of these on the road. What can go wrong?

"this fire took 6000 gallons of water to put out, and this out 20000" Me: Ok I have no clue how much a gallon is, I guess from his tone that it should be a lot... But since I cba to search internet and make a conversion I just pretend to be impressed.

They're not. Simply eliminate 1 element of the triad and you're good. Easiest is oxygen. No oxygen. No fire. A fire blanket or CO2 extinguisher works excellent.

@ACSReactions

9 ай бұрын

Ooh, that's a really interesting point. We made a whole episode about why you can't just cut off the external oxygen supply to put out electric vehicle fires, you should check it out: kzread.info/dash/bejne/nIWOrZKzZ9u_pbQ.html

@karhukivi

9 ай бұрын

The lithium battery can get so hot it ruptures and sprays out the organic electrolyte as an aerosol into the atmosphere and it is this that creates the fireball.

@alexlifeson8946

9 ай бұрын

@@karhukivi I'll take that over a gas explosion that kills 5 people and blows up 3 houses in 2 seconds

@karhukivi

9 ай бұрын

@@alexlifeson8946 On an aircraft it might not be so nice a choice!

@alexlifeson8946

9 ай бұрын

@@karhukivi fire bags. Airlines already have them. Might be impractical, but.. what's the alternative?

Electric vehicles catch fire because... diligent EV manufacturers, of course not from the USA, already install sodium-ion batteries in EVs that are in production and for sale... But USA premium brand EV manufacturers insist on using ternary lithium ion batteries instead of non-flammable sodium-ion batteries as if they don't exist... because they're actually only interested in continuing some sort of transportation fuelling investment substance racket after the obsolescence of fossil fuels. THAT'S why EV fires that shouldn't even exist... are so hard to put out. ,🤪

Many times more ICE vehicles catch fire than the small number of EV's.

Why do you wear a tshirt that's two sizes too small?

@williamlangley2044

Жыл бұрын

When he bought them they fit, when he washed and dried them they shrunk.

This was excellent for non scientists like me.

Because they cram in far far too many electron ions and anti-ions into a confined space - the battery - and the ions/anti ions far too close each other is like an explosive. Even with rockets the oxidiser is kept separate and only mixed at the last moment.