People: "Why is my tea so sweet?" Me: "Too much sugar" Experts: "NO! THE DENOMINATION OF H20 WHILST HEATED TO A DEGREE CELCIUS OF X REQUIRES A 3.2X OF BOILING TIME TO EQUATE TO THE STANDING TIME OF THE PERFORATED DRIED TEA LEAF VESSEL IN ORDER TO ALLOW FOR A LARGER QUANTITY OF GRANULATED SUGAR CANE TO BECOME ADHERED TO THE MOLECULAR LEVEL OF THE TEA LEAVES IN WHICH ALTHOUGH YOU MAY HAVE APPLIED SUGAR IN THE CORRECT FOMULAEC DOSEAGE....." Me: "YES! TOO MUCH SUGAR!!!" Experts: "NO! YOU'RE TELLING THE STORY WRONG!!"

The only way to really figure this out would be to use an oscilloscope and look at the ramp-up of current / drop-off of voltage. Different batteries will behave differently under different loads, so different guns will produce different results.

It’s kinda funny watching the airsoft community still learning about lipos/Lions and brushless stuff that RC people learned over a decade ago. Glad it’s catching up though 👍 BTW “C” ratings are relative to its Mah rating airsoft channels always seem to skip that important fact, also MOST battery manufacturers lie about the ‘c’ rate anyway

@NegativeAirsoftTech

Жыл бұрын

Yes, we're shit? Duh.

@emiledlund2193

Жыл бұрын

Right!? Brushless engines was standard from like 2005

@jediknight1294

Жыл бұрын

Battery manufacturersie about everything, look at pule ratings

@Matt-md5yt

10 ай бұрын

same in the nerf community funny enough. they been doing lipos for like a decade now I believe.

@Malzanar2010

8 ай бұрын

miles behind the RC community haha. like how things are just barely coming out with deans connectors instead of the garbage tamiya, when RC has been using XT-30/60/90 and things like that. im about to swap all my AEG stuff over to XT-60, its just easier to work with all around.

As an electrical engineer, your description of how these guns behave based on the batteries is reasonable. The reason the heat is being generated, but having lower performance is likely happening due to something called inrush current. To understand inrush current, you'll have to understand the dynamics of how motors work. The more load you put on a motor, the more current it will draw. At the worst case, when the motor has its rotor completely locked in place and unable to move, it will have a maximum current draw. You can calculate this by taking the motor out of the gun, and measuring the resistance across the motor windings. Then, you take your battery voltage, and divide it by the number of ohms you have. It will likely be less than 1 ohm (the kv rating being higher will increase this). "the motor will take as much as it needs" is only technically correct. It won't just pull everything you give it if all you have is current. The voltage will change the current draw. Something else will also determine this ia ESR, Equivalent Series Resistance sometimes called internal resistance. Most manufacturers who make the cells that NUPROL for example put in their packs will have a datasheet which is just a fancy term for a spec sheet for the batteries explaining the ESR. It will be measured in ohms too. Please be aware, that Panasonic and a few other manufacturers don't seem to note this, but it's still the case with any cell you get your hands on. If you add this ESR value to the motor resistance, and then do your battery voltage divided by the result of that, you'll get the actual current draw when the motor starts. It will probably be slightly less than this if it's allowed to spin inside the gun because harmonics and inductance is a thing, which I'd gladly explain, however it's somewhat negligible in the scope of this conversation. What you'll find is these lithium ion packs that tend to heat the motor up will probably have a low ESR compared to the LiPo cells. You'll also notice that there's probably going to be a graph of some sort explaining the characteristics and voltage drop when you draw current from the battery. Higher voltage at higher currents means lower ESR if you find these graphs. What it sounds like you've found is that the LiFe cells typically have a higher ESR, which reduces inrush current draw on the motors, making for better overall performance.

@ItsBoyRed

11 ай бұрын

As a "hobby EE" i cant belive i had to scroll this far to find this. This is exactly my thoughts as well. This is the right answer, i hope Negative Airsoft sees it!

@george-broughton

11 ай бұрын

@@ItsBoyRed He isn't interested. The comment was more for those who are also interested as to why this is happening.

@meanmarine24

11 ай бұрын

" The voltage will change the current draw." In what sense? Do you mean that if i switch from a 7.4V to a 11.1V on an AEG, the current draw will increase?

@ItsBoyRed

11 ай бұрын

​@@meanmarine24 Yes, more voltage across a load/resistor (motor) = More current. A motor increases in resistance the faster it spins, which is why they wont keep gaining speed forever but settles at a certain RPM at a given voltage. When you force a motor to run slower by making it turn a gearbox you lower the electrical resistance in the motor. If you know 'Ohm's Law' you know that [Voltage / Resistance = Current] So an equal voltage across a smaller resistance will equal a higher current. Hence why a slightly higher voltage will make so much more heat, it can pump much more current through the small motor.

@meanmarine24

11 ай бұрын

@@ItsBoyRed Have you ever tested an AEG with a wattmeter, or tested it via a PSU with current meter?

The reason the motor is getting hotter with an 11.1v is because all of the ETUs you've listed will require Active/Passive Braking to prevent overspin, especially at UK power limits and without the cut off lever and trigger shuttle etc providing resistance. There's more overspin with higher voltages because, well, gears have more inertia when they're moving faster. If you hook up your AEG to a proper amp/wattage meter (the Titan's inbuilt meter isn't particularly well isolated and is therefore not really useful except for comparative ratings within the same build), turned off active braking completely and tried it on some massive monster 7.4v and 11.1v batteries (to eliminate hitting the battery's discharge ceiling), you'll find the amps they draw are pretty similar. What *is* an issue that can cause some voodoo fuckery with certain batteries with higher nominal ratings being outperformed by lower nominal ratings is, as you've pointed out, some manufacturers will put any old rubbish on the label, and not all cells are equal in terms of voltage sag. TITAN Power Li-ions, for example, tend to have horrible voltag sag, even when compared to other brands of Li-ions or scratchbuilt 18650 based packs with high end samsung cells. Thisbecomes incredibly apparent in high performance (and thus high current draw) builds, and even the best of the best 18650 cells, as you've pointed out, are not suitable for short, high current spikes.

@NegativeAirsoftTech

Жыл бұрын

If you listen again, I note that without an ETU the same thing can & has occurred. ETU manufacturers have told me "no, it just allows power to flow". Everybody can be wrong in a conversation, but only one side can be right...

@michaeljhnewman

Жыл бұрын

@@NegativeAirsoftTech I mean, if your only takeaway is "Higher voltages make motors go faster and therefore heat up faster" then yes, that's true, but the temperature delta you get from turning on AB is going to be *massively* exacerbating the issue. Of course, as you've mentioned, this can vary massively from build to build, so big ol pinch of salt. Personally, I set up AEGS for 11.1vs for all my client's builds just because I know that telling them "Don't go above a 9.9v battery or you'll hit PME and kill the piston" tends to end up with people returning guns with PME'd pistons going "uh it just broke all of a sudden, ignore the fact that the last input voltage reading on the TITAN says '12.4v' cough cough"

@Canilash

Жыл бұрын

I wonder how much the "ON Resistance" of the ETU mosfets affect the motor heating.

I was getting overspin on my kwa ronnin recon on 11.1 liion So dropped to 7.4, no overspin and trigger response was just as good as the 11.1

You can buzzword this methodology as “shimming load to battery” and have it take off as new lingo Thank you for another banger of an informative video!

@NegativeAirsoftTech

Жыл бұрын

Great tip!

I can taste the comments now....

@ambershangout7226

Жыл бұрын

Well batteries are good snacks 🤡

@eatthisvr6

Жыл бұрын

@@ambershangout7226 they give me the shits

@opairsoft8100

Жыл бұрын

I can smell the comments

@wombloid1037

Жыл бұрын

Well as someone who is looking to swap to lipos this is really interesting

@NegativeAirsoftTech

Жыл бұрын

@@wombloid1037 nothing wrong with lipo batteries, I'm just opening eyes & raising eyebrows. 😉

Really glad you’ve made this video, last Sunday I was using my Specna arms Edge 2.0 with a gate aster in it running an 11.1v 1450 MaH and I noticed that my grip was getting really warm and it made me wonder what the hell was causing it. Now I know the answer

@jordancox1938

Жыл бұрын

Hmmm i just got the same, and i only have 11.1 2200 batterys

I really appreciate you sharing the things you've learned over time. So much of airsoft teching is guesswork and that can get expensive and time-consuming to get decent performance. Keep on doing what you do!

Amazing video, thank you for this (and your other vids)!

You should compare batteries based on their actual A output, not only "small 7.4 vs big 7.4". or "25C vs 20C" or "1100 vs 2000" - Both mah and C need to be used to get actual Amperage of the battery. If you use only mah or only C or "size" to compare batteries its not equal comparison because one affects the other. 5000mah 20C battery will give you same response as 2000mah 50C battery. They are both 100A Example of calculation: 2000mAh 20C Battery 2000mAh / 1000 = 2A 20C X 2A = 40A 2000mAh 20C battery has 40A output So: mah / 1000 = A xC * A = Available Amperage

@NegativeAirsoftTech

Жыл бұрын

Read the video description, it's aimed at these comments. I explain in a way people understand. Don't care about maths & equations, I don't understand & neither do most people bud. You get it.... 99% of airsofters don't.

@rekinxxxl

Жыл бұрын

​@@NegativeAirsoftTech The calculations are factual and easily understandable though,with them you know which battery gives X power. If you are going to give explanation to people that "small battery There are already many people in comments or that I seen that compare batteries based on "I used 35C batteries and they are better than 25C". Which is blank statement, because C is only one variable that determines the end result.

@NegativeAirsoftTech

Жыл бұрын

@@rekinxxxl I'm telling you, I & other people don't understand. Learning difficulties. I can talk to you in two languages other than English, then when you don't get it I'll tell you it's easy. I break things down for people to understand. You do maths. It won't change how I explain things so don't argue with a stubborn old man on the internet. :-)

@NegativeAirsoftTech

Жыл бұрын

I even just tried again, loads of numbers & hieroglyphics that don't form a picture in my mind. I cannot see what you're seeing.

@rekinxxxl

Жыл бұрын

@@NegativeAirsoftTech Alright then. I do appreciate that you at least tried it out. 👍

Bum sausage

Nice. Appreciate the insight. I'll be checking out the 9 volts.

Glad you made this thank you

An education. As I’m looking into batteries for my stuff,this has came at the right time. 9.9v on the shopping list.😊

Top content, the sharing of knowledge 👌👍👊

For the first time I hear some things that I like. It's true that on airsfot and other hobbies as well you listen a lot "you need this and that ...". I'm very new at airsoft tech and I read a lot of recepies that not all true for all the cases. For majority of the cases perhaps, for v2 gearbox perhaps I don't know. But I know how electrical stuff works I do know and all it was spoken here somohow is true. On the electrical motors world (generaly speaking) if you have a big voltage the motor will heat, if your electrical power is high and your load(spring) is very low your motor will heat. The ambient can cause also heat on a working motor. It makes sense to me that the battery selection depends of spring, mosfet, gears, lub, shims, bushings or nearings and motor becuase all of this contributes for the work (j) of your machine. Finally! I can give you an example time to time I hear you need to change the air nozzle because is stock and plastic. I say no, I don't it's working fine. I have the fps, joules I want l and don't have feeding issues. Why should I do it?

That is so true mate I am a fully qualified electrician myself, but I will never touch any of my guns. I will always get someone to do them and even the choose the right batteries for the build my local airsoft shop for any guns that need fixing or upgrades

@DannyGruesome

9 ай бұрын

Lol i have a nccer number and ill open this gun before i touch anything over about 20v. I salute you sir and always turn the main off yourself

Very well put A lot of people who play airsoft don't really know about lipo batteries and brushless motors I was gonna put in a brush's motor from an r c car and a speed controller to see if I could get that to work but I think it might be a bit of a dangerous gun

@NegativeAirsoftTech

Жыл бұрын

We're very behind compared to RC

Honestly I've been using the 3000mah 11.1 from titan for 3 years. So far no issue. Have had a few friends had their li-ions crap out or cause issues with their fets. This has been super interesting.

@NegativeAirsoftTech

Жыл бұрын

Variables - I was loving 7.4v LiOn but then after seeing them start to fall apart etc...

@jediknight1294

Жыл бұрын

I'm fairly sure their recent cells have got worse in quality.

@jamescameron6819

Жыл бұрын

Not making any claims. Just stating my experience. Honestly it was the perfect battery until I went wanker with 13/1 gears. OH THE PME. melted the bevel and pinion striped the piston rack. Funny bit was it ran like a dream for 3 full weekends. Then screeeeeeeeech

This video is golden, I need to show it to my 11.1 only friends 😄

Interesting stuff to consider, but watching the video and reading the comments has proven to be very informative. I've got a charger that can do LiFes, might try one for science. Couldn't fit one in my MP5k, probably will fit in the M4. Today, I learned things. It's a good day. I had a chum who was an RC fanatic and he got me using LiPos years ago, with a discharge alarm and monitor and honestly, I had never considered the alternatives from that point to this. Before then, I also had a sling-mounted 10.8v stick 🤣

That’s so interesting, I’ve been doing tech work since the mid 2000’s on my own AEGs and ran a service business doing builds for customers for a while. I came to many similar conclusions as yourself but could never figure out why an 11.1 30C 1400mAh would cause the motor to get hot while an 11.1 1200mAh 25C would not (this is an example on my current primary M4)

aces video. im going thru trying all my batteries on all my aegs. mind blowing my avalon mp5 runs on a 7.4 just as good and snappy not as fast auto, but its not a high rof aeg unless its built. i would have never known. i also tried the 1 ion i have in my utg combat commando.... butter baby.bloody hell this is fun as shit. thank you sir my whole day has been turned around just by my toys running different. it like i got 7 new aegs!!!!

I have to dive in and nerd out, just my opinion though. The way I see it is that AEGs are indeed a demand system, the motor will only pull as much energy as it needs in an IDEAL scenario. However, there actually is an explanation for why higher volt batteries produce more heat. And that's because while the energy used to cycle the gun is the same regardless the battery, the losses are not. Mechanical and electrical "waste" resistance is a constant and so a higher voltage battery will take a higher "loss" current. Props on you for thinking about this based on actual experience rather than just following groupthink.

@NegativeAirsoftTech

Жыл бұрын

Nothing I've said is wrong, I just explain it for people like me to easily understand. "Too much, where will it go?" "Cup runneth over" Lol

@toxic_babes8906

Жыл бұрын

Yep, totally get it, wording is important. Your assumptions are right anyways.

@NegativeAirsoftTech

Жыл бұрын

@@toxic_babes8906 with me & people like me, it's akin to a dog explaining to the vet where it hurts 🤣

You'll be hearing from my lawyer, you've just made my brain implode and I demand compensation

@NegativeAirsoftTech

Жыл бұрын

When people post a whole pile of formula like "JUST UNDERSTAND, OK?"

Wonder if a simple voltage regulator would help? Regulate it down from 11.1 or whatever to 9.6, 7.4, etc.

@majkl978

Жыл бұрын

In this case, it is better to use PWM control of the processor unit, which can regulate the ROF, because a simple potentiometer creates losses and additional heat on the "regulator" and the battery life will not be extended.

Thank you

@NegativeAirsoftTech

Жыл бұрын

Welcome!

The flap on battery you're referring to is a nickel strip. Easy to fix but it's not exactly durable.

@ItsBoyRed

11 ай бұрын

Very easy to fix, you just need a battery spot-welder. Or risk damaging your cell with a mighty hot iron.

I run a g and g arp 9&556. I run a tonne of R.C. cars and trucks, got curious and ran one of my 11.1 lipo rc battery in my gun. I gotta say I got a way better game play than with the original 11.1 I got for the gun. This would explain why. Thanks you sir 👍

@NegativeAirsoftTech

Жыл бұрын

I got curious once... Want to know how? Sign up to my onlyfans

I think the reason the amperage goes up with a lower voltage battery is down to the wattage requirement of the motor. This is something I ran into when installing a circuit for my air compressor. The motor "wants" a set amount of wattage, not necessarily current. W = v*a. The motor wants that power no matter what, and it will draw as many amps as it can (based on the voltage) to put out that power. It's the same reason that an undersized battery will make the gun run slower. In that case you either need to up the voltage or the amperage to compensate. It just so happens that raising the voltage also increases the speed the motor turns at. (Obligatory, "I did not go to sckool for this stuff" disclaimer)

@ItsBoyRed

11 ай бұрын

" In that case you either need to up the voltage or the amperage to compensate." You simply cannot change the amperage of a motor without either changing the load(Resistance) or the Voltage across it. To change the load you could either make the rest of the gun run smoother, with less friction. Or you could get a "better" motor, with thicker windings. Thicker wires/windings = Less Resistance. Its all in Ohms Law.

I have a G&G M14 EBR (set up for DMR) that I have done a fair bit of work to, it has a really basic MOSFET in as it is running on contacts. 18K high torque mystery brand motor that came out of something, short stroked by 1 tooth with a rear ported cylinder it clears into by about 4mm. The battery I made my self by getting some 3.5AH 20C LG cells I cant remember the exact specs but I believe they are rated for 40C burst from the data sheet, the main thing is I soldered straight to the cells with a nickel sheet that was 8mm wide by 0.5mm thick so around a 4MM CSA between the cells coming away from the battery to the connecter its all wired in 2.5mm cable throughout the gun, to the MOSFET and to the motor. It doesn't get hot but I will bet that it is because it doesn't have active breaking. Then again the MOSFET is heat slinked to the chassis of the gun so it would take allot of abuse to cause it to cook off.

@NegativeAirsoftTech

Жыл бұрын

Science

@501isa

Жыл бұрын

@@NegativeAirsoftTech ain’t no kill like overkill.

Could it be active break overheating the motor? 11,1 bursts more energy than 7,4 as a consequence it needs more energy to counter movement.

I have a g&g L85a2 (disabled ebb) the manufacture say use an 11.1.. can I use a 9.6 for instance ?

Generally I try to find a balance in performance and longevity with my guns. Currently I don't have any AEGs with mosfets and tuning, so to get a snappy trigger response on semi I just run 9.9v LiFe. Did my own research into batteries and while I have tried 11.1v, I often find that it gets uncomfortably hot and some of my guns double cycle because they weren't tuned for it. 9.9v is such a good choice and I've yet to find a gun in my collection that didn't run with it and have some sort of drawback that stood out to me. 11.1v has its place but it shouldn't always be the be all end all as some people make it out to be Funny enough I use that same 9.9v battery for my AKs, albeit it's a tight fit in the Zenitco Top Cover.

I am using 7.4 lipo on my asg mxr18 (simple airsoft gun) And i put from a friend a 9.6volt nihm battery The trigger response and full auto was amazing😂

This was exactly the information i was looking for, thanks for the excellent content my good man. I'm wondering if there's a circuitry error inherent in the design - would the inclusion of capacitors make a big difference do you think? Sounds like basically the entire circuit is being used like a giant capacitor but it's not actually a capacitor so shit gets hot. Probably a bunch of bullshit - make of it what you will lol

@jediknight1294

Жыл бұрын

A capacitor wouldn't do anything useful, because we aren't worrying about smoothing the power delivery.

@BikeMole

Жыл бұрын

@@jediknight1294 No but it could make a big dollop of instant current available for the next trigger pull and speed up response, and give somewhere for the motor generated current to go (other than to heat in the windings) on trigger release

Sounds like you've been going down the same rabbit hole I have been on. With my last job, I was even able to borrow an oscilloscope to test the draw on my different batteries. I have been meaning to rent another to further test inrush current. Hardcore agree about the BS of "only use how much energy it needs so get the biggest battery you can." In tests with the oscilloscope and with general RPS testing, it is an important part of the puzzle. A 1000mah 25c vs a 2200mah 25c gave me different readings. A 1200mah 20c was different than a 2000mah 30c. From 900mah to 4000mah and from 15c to 45c, you see a difference. Brushed motors have a linear relationship between speed and voltage but what I didn't understand was the different draws I was getting out of the battery. From what I can tell, it's the torque which is related to current, not just voltage. The bigger, "higher rated" batteries provide more current. Don't understand it enough to say "I have found that part of the puzzle" but it's something I've been trying to go off of. Not sure about brushless though. Interesting to hear about the temps. I've never used 11.1v with brushless motors as I only use brushless motors on setups that I want to use 7.4v with. Then you get differences in what people are using with the brushless. ADV says not to use anything but 18:1 gears, but I see people using 13:1 with Warheads. I have tried multiple RA Option1 brushless motors and found that they just suck. 7.4 is at least better, but they're extremely finicky about what spring is being used or about the battery itself is being used.

Unless you have a regulator installed between the motor and the battery. The motor will draw every ounce of energy available until it fails or the current over powers the shielding and starts arcing.

the motor spins faster with more voltage and more energy put through it, faster turning armature has more momentum, so it needs more active braking to get it to stop. active braking is basically just shorting the motor, so 11.1v batteries with high capacity and high C-ratings will give you a better response, more torque, and faster motor spin, but once you let go of the trigger, it will also need lots of energy to get the thing to stop. a stiffer spring will put more resistance into the system, braking the motor too a little, so the stiffer spring will reduce the need for active braking, thus reducing the heat accumulating in the grip. just assume everything i wrote is BS.

@NegativeAirsoftTech

Жыл бұрын

Or doesn't apply to every build....

Жыл бұрын

That's generally correct. AB is actually providing current the other way around, making the motor spin "backwards" for a fraction of time... which generates heat, of course. If the mechanical build is properly tuned (ie. it stops snappily without AB active) then the motor won't heat up as much with the same big battery. The number of stops the bevel has is important, as is the stiffness and length of the spring, etc. All of it just depends on how the build is done and how we want to correct certain things. Electronics and AB is the easiest path. Testing some different springs might be a good easy option as well. I tend to prefer hard short ones, for example.

I use both lipo’s and lion’s these days but for a long time I used LiFePo4’s and was happy. I should go back.

V=IR. R (resistance) in this case being the motor/gearbox. So if R is constant and V goes up, I (current) also goes up. More current, more heat. 11.1 will always pump more heat into a system than 7.4V. this isn't shocking.

I am willing to give this a shot. I have ordered a 9.9 life airsoft battey. I have noticed my 11.1 lipogets warm and so do my Gate titan battery wires but the motor doesn’t get warm fast. But those wires do. 7.4v battery can get redhot because its not strong enough since my semi auto fire is what I am concerned about lets try the 9.9 life. I will give an update after it arrives. Cause my aeg is about .95 to 1.1 joules for indoors. So if 11.1 is to strong for that soft spring. Then if the 9.9 should be just right. If this does work me and my tech are going to have a long conversation.

Ive been using nimh batteries since i started airsoft 3 nearly 4 year ago Run 9.6v in one rif but makes me wonder now am i using the right voltage battery However ive never swapped out geard or anything lol ike that just changed the spring

ı think it is the mosfets problem to how many amp did it take from battery.

The question is would a 11.1v battery that's 15c would discharge slower than a 30c , so technically 11.1v 15c should see a difference in motor heat? I have ssr4 the motor gets bloody hot on 15c yet 25c it's not as bad, but the size of the battery is different.

i didn't know about the problem of Li-ion cells on the Gate electronics, I love Li-ion chemistry, should I got another brand to avois d thos problems?

Please Luke, if you do nothing else this month, please learn what a C rating is... It is merely to tell you how fast the battery can be discharged in relation to its capacity. The reason why NIMH/NICAD batteries in airsoft never had a C rating for discharging is they can safely be taken down to and stored at 0 volts without any danger. You cannot do that with Lithium batteries. What people have been trying to tell you is the motor will only draw the CURRENT it needs, but it will get hot if you chuck more VOLTS at it than it needs. Ever seen the battery get too hot? Seen Lipos get destroyed? We all have. The reason for that is the motor is drawing more CURRENT than the battery can safely discharge I think the word ENERGY has little relevance in this case,

@NegativeAirsoftTech

Жыл бұрын

Please, if you do nothing else this month, learn that I'm not going to do that. Read the video description. I explain things in a way people understand & I fully understand the C rating, it's the size of the spout on the bottle of water, bigger spout = faster pouring - however you're not understanding the point I'm making in the video because you're too tied up on one thing, that I must be wrong & you must prove it. There are other "experts" in this circus of a comments section that totally disagrees with me AND with what you have just typed... Everybody is right or wrong it would seem.

So essentially the next inovation in airsoft should be a variable voltage/amp regulator So you can regulate how much power it draws so you can use the 11.1v but after much testing say ok thats too much but a 7.4v is not enough but 9v is about right I believe car alternators have them to stop them supplying too much voltage to the battery and causing overheating or in extreme cases exploding

@NegativeAirsoftTech

Жыл бұрын

It would be ideal.

There’s a lot to be said for the csa ‘cross sectional area’ of the wires. The current is passing through different guages of wire, so there’s a limiting factor. So we’re working in DC, have you considered eddy currents from the motor. The fact that there is current passing through a circuit board, motor and switch all contained in metal casing could produce eddy currents in itself. Whether or not these could affect the operation would need to be seen. The heat factor of the motor I would suggest has quite a lot to do with the different resistances the current is passing through. The motor and its wiring could be giving high resistance thus causing the heat. I’m a couple of year in to Airsoft and haven’t even opened a gear box, I do understand electrics and electrical science though. Not sure if my points offer any difference to your view on this.

@NegativeAirsoftTech

Жыл бұрын

Everything has an effect. Everything.

@richardbooth662

Жыл бұрын

⁠@@NegativeAirsoftTechI wonder if grounding the casing would make any difference. The negative being ground. You’re in a much better position than me to try it, run a bonding wire from the casing to the negative of the battery?

I'm lost with all this stuff tbh I just get what ever battery fits a particular riff

Look at the rc world if you plug a massive battery in without a speed controller the motor will run till you melt themselves or weld itself together, that's why they use a speed controller to control the power draw to the motor instead of dumping all the battery can into the motor

@NegativeAirsoftTech

Жыл бұрын

Not if your an electrician or an airsofter on the internet!

@G.Barford

Жыл бұрын

@@NegativeAirsoftTech 😂🤣 so true 🤙

@jediknight1294

Жыл бұрын

A controller would be a really nice 'innovation' for airsoft, goigg to voltage control would be perfect but... I don't think you could trust airsofters not to go but it goes to 11 and just weld their trigger contacts

re the motor getting hot with no load on it, could this be an active brake issue?

@NegativeAirsoftTech

Жыл бұрын

Sometimes - sometimes there's no ETU.... I've done battery to motor & no airsoft gun, just a push to make switch....

@eatthisvr6

Жыл бұрын

@@NegativeAirsoftTech calling it energy weird terminology, energy could mean alot of things. generally speaking current (amps) is how many electrons are flowing, current is DRAWN by the motor etc voltage is how hard those electrons are pushed, think of it like water. water pressure is voltage flow rate is amps the size of the pipe is resistance smaller pipe (more resistance) means you need MORE pressure (volts) to get the same amount of water (amps) through the pipe and vice versa

Started watching and thought I should say, battery manufacturers produce to a standard not a quality. Most bats perform better than listed specs. It's easier to produce down to an industry consistently attainable quality. Airsoft won't push bats that hard, but miss treat any lipo/li ion and it will bite back, and potentially melt your gun. Thanks for vids. Making sense of lots of airsoft shit, and soo many good pointers and things to look out for. 🤙🏻🤙🏻

i loaded my 11.1 li-ion for like 30-45 minutes from the 9.X charge it had when taiwangun shipped it to me. it turns out the 11.1v is a fucking suggestion and the battery loaded at 12.4 was still not full and yet it has a trigger response worth of a nimh in winter

Dammit man. I did 4 years of power electronics at college and now im getting ptsd flashbacks!! Aaaarrrgh!

@Mauricio5689

Жыл бұрын

Jajajaja nice comennt

Well duh ! Wasn’t that common knowledge 😉😂 I already knew that ❤️

@NegativeAirsoftTech

Жыл бұрын

🤭

It's down to the resistance of the motor which comes from the gauge of the copper wire used in the windings amongst other things, what you are seeing is high winding resistance which then causes a lower power output, the lower power output is related to the loss of current used by the motor which gets converted into heat, you are seeing this because the 11.1V exceeds the nominal current draw of the motor or in other words the motor isn't designed to have 11.1V pushed through it for sustained periods.

I can't even use li ions in my rpk16.ive been tearing my heart out trying to find batteries for it. The 7.4 was simply too thick. I didn't have this problem with my cyma aks74u. The battery I use in my m4 is a matrix 25c 2500 mah 11.1. li ion. nunchuck. I probably have about 5000 rounds on it and no issues.

lt would be interesting to see some tests done with an adjustable bench PSU and an ammeter to see whats really happening. if the batteries are getting hot i wouldve thought it would be to do with the batteries internal resistance which is determine by the battery type and voltage. so, in theory a 7.4v LiPo should run a lot cooler than a 8.4v NiMH. but who really knows 🤷‍♂

If I sent you a high end gel blaster would you work on it

You should check batterries on some decent chanrger, for eg. iMax B6AC V2 instead of believing Chinese stickers. Some of my batteries were giving out over 12V.

which maker made that KAC PDW for AEG??

Played this video in my car and blew a speaker. Lol

@NegativeAirsoftTech

6 ай бұрын

F

Hello All the way from DENMARK 🇩🇰

Like literally every other motor, you should give it what it needs. Anything lower/higher is bad. It all depends on the specs of the motor and only the motor. It has fuck all to do with the build really nothing. If your build needs more power to run then you need a "stronger" motor. Motors have a range and we should stay within it ;) thnx for the video's keep up the good work. Teaching the community!

C rating is based on battery capacity so a larger cell at the same voltage at the same C rating the larger battery will be more for that given C rating. (usually in airsoft the rof on a larger size cell at the same C, a 25c 7.4 may be faster response than a 20c 11.1 but the 20c 11.1 will be higher rof) It's one of those things that's kind of a mindfuck until you really grasp the maths.

@jediknight1294

Жыл бұрын

And like you've said, even doing the maths doesn't make a massive amount of sense without the real world examples. This has proved a pet theory that a Li-ion battery is not a good option for an airsoft gun. The fact that LI-FE put the power up is REALLY interesting as well as people have SWORE Blknd that a battery could not do that.

Dc motors have a higher rpm at higher voltage also if you consider a motor as an approximation of a resistor then as per ohms law the motor will draw more current at higher voltage, more current = more heat so to summarise mo voltage => mo rpm => mo rps => mo current => mo heat Batteries have a C rating that limits the max current so motor says mo current mo powa and the battery says fooq off 😂

I'll be glad of the heat this winter.

Well, that's if you don't mind switching to 2nd battery midday.

I think it is because a 7.4 is not the nominal base voltage of a 7.4 they are labeled with 7.4 but the. Voltage is higher I think it is 8.6 The 11.1 are called yes but in their highest voltage they are 12 and something And the 9.6 is 11.1 and something loaded to the max Giving us as a result that a 7.4 that will have a voltage of 8.4 at the beginning before it begins to discharge and a 9.6 with 11.1 are equal to a 12.1 (11.1) since they have a beginning more attached to the 8.6 and 12.1 lipos are in the middle . I have seen this, the performance of the 11.1 lipos is indisputable, but the nihm or other 9.6 batteries have an initial voltage of 11 and something. So deducing the 11.1 lipos are like a bodybuilder they are doped to give a frantic start but they create an over metabolism in the system translating into overheating due to higher initial voltage While the 7.4 are normal athletes giving correct results without creating an accelerated metabolism And the 9.6 would be high performance athletes who would compete with 11.1 which are more natural in their initial voltage and do not create overheating. Here the only problem of all the scenarios is that the 11.1 last longer if you know how to take care of them While the 9.6 technology tends to have a time of possible charges before the cells drop and you have to renew. But if you're looking for performance and the best people won't be afraid to spend their money on the right battery for the replica. What you think Que piensas tu hermano?

As electrician all you say is right the problem of the stating is multiple and complicated, but can be closed (IMO) to 2 important information about battery that many give light answers to: 1 the battery are DC 2 the battery used in the AEG dont have advanced electronic controls, so they give all what they can First comment and i would like to say, i love you channel and the fact that many of my teori found reasons here...i run 9.9v Life (better V and safer chemical), fuck the AOE at 12:00, short stroke is the way... One question can you make a video on the different gear ratio?

Should I be honest. I sometimes like a 11 v lipo. Why? Bollocks, that is why. However, for most people having a 7,4 and a good AEG is better, because the AEGs´ performance is more important for trigger response than the Lipo. Also a 7,4 won´t break the AEG as soon. But to each their own, I mainly like 7,4s, if I don´t use gas, and it works well having the "weaker" lipos.

Ok, ok....this might be my issue on my g&p i5 build. The 11.1 makes things just too hot and 9.6 nihmi only works while the charge is high. This might be the solution to my heat/gremlin issue with this turd of a G&P ( honestly they have normally been the reference here in the states for decades , this Thor rapid not so much ) .

11.1 batteries was making my motors hot. They have actually just caused me loads of problems. Gone back to 7.4 and its all fine. Wasted silly money on various 11.1s.

Here I am literally about to offer a basic mosfet and stick 11.1 in my g3 😅

Take a look into LiFePO4. I've been running them in my guns for awhile and I love them. 3s makes a 9.6v

AKSHULLY!!! So I think the C rating in itself is misleading, because the battery capacity is making differences in the amps drawn. So a 5000mah 20c and a 1400 mah 20c battery is very different. So this also could explain the li-ion thing, because those are generally higher capacity. (don't know about the motor making noise when not firing tho... thats crazy :D)

@NegativeAirsoftTech

Жыл бұрын

I jus use the term "the C rating is bollocks"

@balzs9zkny

Жыл бұрын

@@NegativeAirsoftTech i haven't finished the video yet, but I assumed that will be the conclusion. Great content btw

@eatthisvr6

Жыл бұрын

@@NegativeAirsoftTech the theory isnt, no idea about real world though

@NegativeAirsoftTech

Жыл бұрын

@@eatthisvr6 that's the difference between theory & reality though.

@rekinxxxl

Жыл бұрын

They are both tied together, C and battery capacity are both making differences in amps drawn because both are used to actually calculate the A. There is nothing misleading about it. 5000mah 20c will get 100A and a 2000mah 50c will also get 100A drawn.(it will just discharge faster)

Lol you seem fun to play airsoft with. I can already the hear the "MUTHA FACKA!" Haha

I love your vids, you act all 'BBllaahh I don't give a S*!t', but deep down you got all our best interests at heart. Totally agree with you 100% on this, have noticed all symptoms you mentioned, hot motors, varying rates of fire. My RIF's may only be basically modified but I would rather keep them functional so I can keep enjoying them and all your tips will help. Keep the vids and musings coming ..

@NegativeAirsoftTech

11 күн бұрын

Oh stoppit... shucks....

If anyome cares or not now. But im from ireland so limited to 1Joule. Got a high torque motor, bare bones mosfet, different trigger switch and cut off( i was told to get that done dont know what tf it is) i use a 7.4v 35c giant power lipo and its very snappy imo

so im only about 10 minutes in so i dont know if you touch on it in the video,but the actual battery capacity matters alot more than the c rating. from my experience,a battery with a larger capacity but lower c rating will outperform a battery with a lower capacity and higher c rating.

A "technical" explanation for that is, that electric motors are labeled (not in airsoft) with kV (something close to RPM/V) that means if the motor you are using is 1000kV, with a 7.4 you'll get a 7400rpm on the shaft, but if you then use a 11.1 you go up to 11100RPM...... 33% more speed. On a typical scenario for a motor, it would be easily noticeable difference, but here we have constant impulses, not constant RPM, also different torque situations on a full cycle (proportional tension, then release...). The motor manufactured for 7.4 is not 100% suitable nor efficient working with 11.1, but if we used a 11.1 with a kV ratio equivalent to the 7.4 (basically, a lower kV) the heat would be waaaay lower, as it would consume way less amps/h. And, if someone wants to prove that, use a 4S in your AEG and watch how cool is the smoke coming from your motor xD Great video tho', you do approach the knowledge to the users on a nice easy way. Lastly, yes, Airsoft is somehow behind.... like 15 years late, but the problem is not from the hobbyists, it's from the manufacturers, making us deal with cheap old tech for ages.....

As far as I’m aware, the battery things are called tabs or plates

What is the gun at 21:00?

Had same issues with my garbage titan battery..

Teach Bro, Teach

Oh dear, the internet electricians are coming...

@NegativeAirsoftTech

Жыл бұрын

They're here already

Can't find any of those LiFe batteries... :((

14.8v instead then?

I don't get why people use 11.1v lipo on non dmr builds unless a particular mosfet the brand had uses it but outside of that option though is that why use 11.1v lipo on a non dmr build?? I've built up a G&G cm16L which is discontinued now and the shirking is good as it spins but I'm gonna do more work soon to change out bearing to make it more better but atm it good enough for me, everything been changed expect gears and on 7.4v 15c with gate aster it didn't like 15c 7.4v lipo as tho low but on a 7.4v lipo 20c it was ok but not enough and now on a 30c its good the motor doesn't get hot and it's warm on gate and motor ad there brand new and only have 100 round dhot not in game yet just testing and getting it use too and..... It's really damn good cause the trigger wtf it's really snappy on default setting to the point it was double tapping now and then but I tunned the trigger sensitivity down to stop that and this is where I found out something I didn't want to use 7.4v lipo but a 11.1v however it overspend even with active braking on it still overspinned so I actually and accidentally made my setup into a 7.4v but I love it. Moral of the story is that Just because you want that 11.1v setup doesn't mean you will cause its depends on what gears springs and motor your using and what mosfet as those can either say yes to your ideal setup or nah I want 7.4v lipo setup.

0:32:32 I DON'T FINK YOU HAVE THE FACILITIES FOR THAT BIG MAN

Semi auto will always be the best performer as if its a quality battery, theoretically you should be getting the full discharge rating at one pull. Over using full auto where as soon as that firat shot breaks, the battery isnt running at full capacity. "C" ratings are just fancy numbers on any battery. Another issue with all batteries is what quality the cells are and if there rewrapped. China loves putting old or lower rated cells in fancy packaging at a premium price and flat out putting unrealistic ratings on the wraps. Not only is it upsetting in preformance, but is potential dangerous.

@martyguy8185

Жыл бұрын

Got my info from vape batteries as well. It's a science

@jediknight1294

Жыл бұрын

And this is why buying batteries from trusted manufacturers is so important as any idiot can get a trustfire 2200mah 10a battery and rewrap it and pretend it's some new amazing 5000mah 80a death cell.

Titan have an amazing warranty on their batteries

27:45 I feel called out for an idiotic idea I had.

What is that dboys gun, I can't find it anywhere? Not many toys catch my eye 👁️‍🗨️

Its the c rate my dude . Im also a vape shop owner and was a box modder. Aka mad modder 🙃😉. The c rate is how fast the amount of power can be delivered . High c rate will force tge 11.1 through the motor regardless of the resistance. The lower c rate cant overcome the high resistance.

@NegativeAirsoftTech

Жыл бұрын

So why less heat on a 20c 9.9v than on a 30c 11.1v? (I don't care what the answer is, I'm just playing the variables game)

@ALEX-xd7ko

Жыл бұрын

@@NegativeAirsoftTech the 11.1 30c is both higher voltage and higher c so it can force the 11.1v through the motor . An 11.1 15c of same mah would be a closer comparison to a 9v 20c . The v is the max power the c rate is the ability to push that power and overcome the resistance of the motor.

@ALEX-xd7ko

Жыл бұрын

@@NegativeAirsoftTech now if you go the other way say to low of c rate /mah/voltage then the same things happen as the battery heats up because the motor is actually trying to pull more then the battery can deliver. It's a balancing act. And dont forget that mah plays a huge role also. Larger mah batteries can substain better and actually beliver the power better as their are more cells in parrel.

@NegativeAirsoftTech

Жыл бұрын

​@@ALEX-xd7koso, it's not just the C rating is it? See what I did there?

At the risk of being told that I'm a total idiot by people, I totally agree with you. Because VOLTAGE is PUSHED by the battery. An 11.1 battery will push 11.1 volts, even if it's too much for the motor. But current is DRAWN by the circuit, basically the motor + resistance from wires etc. What this means in English is that, and I'll use Nerf as an example, IF you put more voltage into a motor that it needs,(say 11.1 volts into a 7.4 rated motor, it'll spin faster, yes, but it'll also be under stress it's not designed to take. AND get hot. And then fail at some point. Oh, ps. I use nimh for everything. Because it's idiot proof, and I need that.

@NegativeAirsoftTech

Жыл бұрын

Don't agree with me FFS! The experts are already gathering like an ork army!

@FelixstoweFoamForge

Жыл бұрын

@@NegativeAirsoftTech Let 'em!. See how they like being tagged out by a Nerf Worker Swift firing 1gram darts at 320fps for 4.7joules of energy at the muzzle. Bwa ha ha ha. Experts? they can kiss my Dark Eldar Arse.

@RobertSmith-xh4lx

Жыл бұрын

😄 I've upgraded two m4s, and still using nmhd batteries. I didn't want to mess with lipos...I thought about the 11.1 lithiums...but? Definitely knew it would run the gun hotter.

After watching this, I might replace my 11.1 LiPo with a 7.4 with my M4.