🧡 If you find benefit in my videos, consider supporting the channel by joining us on Patreon and get fun extras like exclusive videos, ad-free audio-only versions, and extensive show notes: www.patreon.com/dougsseculardharma 🙂

Me: oh Ananda is so relatable! Doug: also, he had an amazing memory. Me: ...nevermind.

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

😄 Well yeah, but otherwise ...

@DipayanPyne94

3 жыл бұрын

😂😂 You're Right, Ksenia V ! Ananda was both Ordinary and Extraordinary ! 😄

So in summary, what I got from this video is that Ānanda is very based. Not that I didn't already know that though. Haha, in all seriousness, stellar job with this video. I'm loving these monastic biographies.

@aronmindfulman7727

3 жыл бұрын

Div Patel, what do you mean when you say Ananda is very based?

@IndianRaptorPack

3 жыл бұрын

@@aronmindfulman7727 "Based" is basically just slang to describe someone that is very cool and composed, and doesn't get swayed by what others think. In this case, Ānanda is based because he stood up for women against the androcentric attitudes that were prevalent at the time and established an order of nuns.

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

Cool, thanks Div. I didn't know that expression "based" but yes, he was based. 😀

@lucasb.v.9348

3 жыл бұрын

The expression has some weird roots, but I've also been presented by it being used in a nice and not harmful way. Young people these days y'know

Hail Ananda !! One of the Earliest Feminists from India !!! Ananda was UNIQUE ! I LOVE him because he was BOTH Ordinary and Extraordinary. He is the BEST representation of us Lay People. He shows us that we humans are flawed and that's not necessarily a problem. We have gotta accept our mistakes, forgive others for their mistakes, be compassionate and so on !!! 😄 Anyway, I have a Question, Doug. Is it True that Ananda requested Buddha to include women in the Sangha ? Or was that added later ? In a different video, you mentioned that it is likely that the Extra Rules for women were added later. Is it the same with Ananda's request ?? Please let me know. Thanks ! 😄

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

It's impossible to say for sure. On that earlier video I referenced some earlier studies which demonstrate that the timeline with Ānanda and Mahāpajāpatī Gotamī cannot be accurate, since it is contradictory in certain respects. However that does not establish what the proper time line is nor how the story might have really gone.

@DipayanPyne94

3 жыл бұрын

@@DougsDharma I see. In that case, can we atleast be sure that Buddha included women in the Sangha ? Or was that also a later decision/addition ?

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

@@DipayanPyne94 It was almost certainly the Buddha's decision to make, I doubt anyone else would have had the institutional authority to do so, particularly in his day.

@DipayanPyne94

3 жыл бұрын

@@DougsDharma Alright. Thanks Doug ! 😄

@somguy728

3 жыл бұрын

Beware feminist questions Doug, there's no reasoning there. When modern dogmas - feminism - challenge ancient wisdom it's best to sit back and enjoy the implosion of irrational ideology in real time, and it's accelerating. I'm a bad buddhist, I'm more into Schadenfreude. Enlightenment can wait. Hopefully it'll wait for me too.

Happy Buddha Purnima

Ananda was still enlightened even though not an arahant. he had right view and one who has right view has full understanding of the 4NT and so he could preach true Dhamma

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

Well to be enlightened means to be an arahant. On a traditional understanding, as a stream enterer he would have overcome doubt, but he would still have had taints.

@dicsoncandra1948

3 жыл бұрын

@THISUL WICKRAMARACHCHI I meant during the Buddha's lifetime

FOR ALL THIS 12 YEARS I HAVE NEVER BEEN SO CURIOUS TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THE FOLLOWERS OF THE BUDDHA, AND WHY THEY WANTED TO HEAR HIS WORDS....? AND WHY THE BUDDHA ALSO WANTED TO SHARE HIS WISDOM WITH THEM. I HAVE THE FEELING THAT SARIPUTA WAS A STRONG AND INTENSE ASCETIC WHO BECOME FASCINATED TO BE CLOSE AS POSIBLE WITH THE BUDDHA. WITH A GREATEST NEED TO RE-AFIRM HIS KNOWLEDGE....

@DougsDharma

Жыл бұрын

Yes, it's fun to speculate!

@setonix9151

Жыл бұрын

Did your cap locks key jammed?

Will you also Please do a video like this on Venerable Mogallana? Thx Doug, may you attain happiness and nibanna. The gift of Dhamma is one of the greatest karmic merits, may you reap the benefits both in this life and in your path.

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Sanku, very kind of you to say. I wish the same for you. 🙏

Ever so grateful to Rev. Ananda Maha Rahath. 🌼🙏🌼 We owe so much to this most compssionate, humble, caring, warm, sensitive yet amazingly wise, knowledgeable personality who played the most important role in passing down to us Buddha's dharma in its most pristine form. 🌼🙏🙏🙏🌼

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

Yes he was quite an interesting and valuable person!

There are several instances of Lord Buddha Shakyamuni changing his mind about pragmatic issues like ordaining kids as monks, about eating garlic ... Buddhas cannot change their minds about the core Dhamma/Dharma principles like anatta, of course.

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

Yes that's a good point Alicia, there seem to have been a number of similar examples in the Vinaya, though there is some question about how early the Vinaya really is. Do those rules really all go back to the Buddha? The core rules probably do.

This video talk about Ananda is very interesting and kind of shed light to some present controversies in the Buddhism world, the source of differences can be traced back to the very beginnings of Buddha and his followers. I feel affinity towards Ananda, he's our modern open minded man... Thanks so much for sharing...🌻

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

You're very welcome Pauline, yes he is easy to feel affinity for.

Doug I just love your thumbnails. Like the where you are pointing at the arrow 🤣😂

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

😀 Thanks GM! 🏹

Thank you so much Doug... I will also like to mention a book by Dr B.R. Ambedkar " Buddha and his Dhamma" ... In it its mentioned that under Sariputta the 1st council was held ... please elaborate... Keep up the good work going..... Thank so much for all these videos... You are doing great work....

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Sameer, I have an earlier video on Dr. Ambedkar here: kzread.info/dash/bejne/o6B8wdOilabNc6Q.html . However the First Council traditionally was said to be held under Kassapa, since Sāriputta wasn't alive then.

@vinnysing1324

Ай бұрын

I want to know more about Buddha's disciples. Not politicians

Indeed an excellent , video . Thankyou for posting it

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

You're very welcome Yash! 🙏

Hi Doug, I heard from Ajahn Achalo that the reason the Buddha declined the Bikkhunis was because it had to look like to the society at time that, where women were regarded as less important, Bikkhunis were not instated just like that to not cause too much controversy and create too much obstacles to spread the teachings in the early days when the sangha was still small. So Ananda asking the Buddha and playing “the fall guy” allowed the Buddha to stay accepted by contempory society but still be able to make the Bikkhuni order a fact. In the paranibbana sutta he stated not to leave the world until the 4 fold sangha was established, so here we can learn it was the plan from the beginning to have woman, the Bikkhunis and the laywoman on board. I too like to think that Ananda and the Buddha made a clever play here to make something at the time very controversial happen. An example today is Ajahn Brahm who instated the Bikkhunis again in Theravada causing controversy even today, he got expelled from the lineage of the Thai forest tradition for doing that. I think what he did is very brave and very Ananda like. We need the Bikkhunis on board in this world they bring a different energy like for example venerable Canda who bring a real tender kindness. It seems to me it was the Buddhas plan all along to have the Bikkhunis established. What do you think?

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

Yes I'd like to believe it was the Buddha's plan all along to establish the lineage of Bhikkhunis. As to what actually happened, whether the Buddha had to be convinced by Ānanda or not, I think it's impossible to say for sure.

@dominiquedecooman2262

3 жыл бұрын

@@DougsDharma thats right, we'll never know. Thanks for answering. Keep up the good work.

Thank you 🙏🏽 much love

It's also good too hear Buddha listens to his friends or students with consideration

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, good point Isaac.

Greetings from Sri Lanka! Thank you for the magnificent presentation. Were you in Sri Lanka to learn Buddhism? May The Noble Triple Gem Bless you to reach your destination in Sansara!!!

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

I haven't been to Sri Lanka, maybe someday! 🙂🙏

बुद्ध के संदेश हमेशा प्रेम, सत्य, करुणा और अहिंसा के साथ मानवता की सेवा करने के लिए प्रेरित करते हैं आइए उनके बताए गए मार्ग पर चलकर दया और करुणा का भाव पैदा करें ।। आपको बुद्ध पूर्णिमा की हार्दिक मंगलकामनाएं 🌿 #Buddha 🍁 #Buddhpurnima 🌿 #HappyVesakDay 🌿 #BuddhaPurnima2021 🌿

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

🙏🙂

despite not being fully enlightened, ananda was already a Thaw Ta Pan(1/4 enlightened) when buddha died. Also, from times to times, buddha would let a monk or a person to make mistakes, if it isn’t his or hers time to be enlighten. In ananda’s case, without being fully enlightened, he falls to see the problems with Bake Ku Ni(a version of nuns that isn’t exist anymore) living with monks. After buddha died, the cons of Bake Ku Ni and monks living together outweighed the pros.

Wow ! This is interesting to know life of Buddha's believers and followers also.

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

Yes it's pretty interesting!

Nice video on Anand.

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks a lot Santosh! 🙏

I very much appreciate this video. Thanks Doug! I love Ananda and his role!

@DougsDharma

10 ай бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

This interesting discussion about the life of Ananda brings to mind a curious episode recorded in the suttas, which has always perplexed me somewhat. This is the incident just before the Buddha's death when Ananda implores the Buddha to use his supernatural powers to keep himself alive, for the benefit of his disciples and all unenlightened beings. The Buddha says that if he so wished, he could indeed extend his life for a 1000 years, but he doesn't want to. The Buddha goes on to state, that if Ananda had asked him this boon three times then he would have been bound to fulfill Ananda's wish. However, Ananda didn't do so - am I right in remembering that it is said he just forgot? So, the Buddha says, since you didn't ask me three times I won't do it, and will die now rather than in a 1000 years. Given how much was at stake - another 1000 years of humanity directly benefiting from the presence and wisdom of the Buddha, this has always struck me as being a strange oversight on the part of Ananda. Indeed, it seems a bizarre, if not capricious, justification by the Buddha for refusing Ananda. I'm keen to know your thoughts on this.

@DougsDharma

Жыл бұрын

Yes, in the episode Ānanda's oversight is blamed on Māra. I don't find it convincing, and assume it may have been constructed by someone wanting to disparage Ānanda. Though of course it's impossible to know for sure.

I know ananda.. But very little.. Thank you so much for sharing information about him...

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

My pleasure Sayali, thanks for your comment! 🙏

Happy Vesak Doug

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Rangana, to you as well!

Please also do research on Buddha's great nuns

@DougsDharma

Ай бұрын

I have several videos on the Buddha's nuns. See my playlist on women in Buddhism: kzread.info/head/PL0akoU_OszRg5YtqEoEqIuO70hHnT80Xi

Great video doug, is moggallana next?

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

I don't have a good image of Moggallana in my mind. If I can figure out a decent approach to him and his life I may make one on him too.

Namo Buddha

You said you have the sutras behind you. What version do you have or recommend? I wanted to read/listen to them, but found them highly repetitive, which made me extremely frustrated. It made me wonder why was it that they couldn’t be spoken/written more plainly? Did it have something to do with memorization?

@DougsDharma

Жыл бұрын

Yes, they were composed for memorization, so the best way I think to approach them is with a guide. There are several good translations, perhaps the standard is the one printed by Wisdom, mostly with Bhikkhu Bodhi. Though the online translation at SuttaCentral by Bhikkhu Sujato is excellent as well.

I always like to watch your KZread videos and I subscribed your channel . Thanks for such beautiful videos

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

You’re very welcome Karan, thanks for your comment and for subscribing!

great video! 💜💮

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Kono! 🙏

How do you feel about Ananda being the one who caused Buddha to not become immortal supposedly? I remember him being chastised for this too and personally thought it was silly.

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

Yes it seems silly to me too. I have to wonder if it wasn't a later interpolation into the texts or something, because it doesn't sound to me like the kind of thing the Buddha would have said.

Hail Ananda, the third patriarch... the Arhat who realized his realization suddenly, by the intervention of Maha Kashiapa, the first patriarch, by simply answering the call of his fellow patriarch, "Yes". case 22 of the Gateless Gate... This is beyond all duality... They were one...

Did the Buddha say there was to be no leader of the Sangha after his passing?

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, that's right. Mahākassapa seems sort of to have been thought of as a "first among equals" or the like.

@udayangadananjaya7914

2 жыл бұрын

Buddha said take the dharma and vinaya as your leader after my parinirvana and he who say the dharma will see me. So basically dharma and vinaya is the leader of buddhists after lord buddha.

"There are controversies" uses the passive voice to hide the perpetrators. In the Thai tradition: the Thailand hierarchy who attempted to steal Bodinyana monastery. The government in Thailand, who deny percs such as bus passes and medical care. The monastic order of Thailand who enjoy domestic slaves who wash and clean for them. Bhikkhu Thannisaro whose screed claims Bhikkunis will never be adequate dhamma teachers. The hierarchy in England who ripped off Female renunciants who were training for years, but then denied full ordination.

@DougsDharma

8 ай бұрын

🙏🙏

Hi Doug. I am a recent convert to Buddhism and I have a question I would like to ask you. Is there a way to contact you via email? Or if you prefer I can ask it right here. It is a very important question I feel I need answered.

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

Ask it here so others can benefit.

@fannyalbi9040

3 жыл бұрын

never considered yourself as “converted” to buddhism. do u feel being converted if u like the thinking of socrates. Read and understand kalama sutta before anything else. It helps.

Love the video! Are there other examples where the Buddha seems to change his mind? I've heard you suggest that he may have changed his mind about letting brigands into the sangha post-Angulimala, but nothing else really comes to mind...

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

Well I think there are a number of examples of rule changes in the Vinaya like the issue with brigands. If we are to believe along with the tradition that the Buddha was personally responsible for all the rules in the Vinaya (something that may not actually be the case), then there may be quite a few examples of the Buddha changing his mind.

And that’s exactly the same as Thich Nhat Hanh’s account in “ Old Path White Clouds” Ananda attainted full Enlightenment the very night before the first council convened.

@fooboomoo

3 жыл бұрын

How convene-ient :D

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

Right, it's a bit strange but there it is.

Thank you sir for the info

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

You're very welcome Isaac!

One of the things I cannot accept in the Pali scriptures is the alleged Arhats' attitude towards Ananda and the Bhikkhuni Sangha. I don't have the scholarly knowledge to say they were not originally in the scriptures, but it would be very disappointing to me if they could be proven true. Of course it's very difficult to prove it true.

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

Yes I find this difficult as well Alicia. 🙏

@udayangadananjaya7914

2 жыл бұрын

There were many monks in buddhas monastery who were not arahths ( enlightened )

Thanks for this video. Are there any books that have a collection of suttas and discourses that are ascribed to Ānanda? Is there a book you recommend that has an organized collection of suttas? Thanks again.

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

I don't know of any that just discuss Ānanda's discourses, though if you want a good organized collection of suttas see In the Buddha's Words. I discuss it in this very early video of mine and have a link to it in the notes: kzread.info/dash/bejne/h3uCyMuygrDRl9o.html

@Evan-dd9lv

3 жыл бұрын

I really appreciate that. Sounds like it’s exactly what I’ve been looking for!

I hear he was a good listener

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

He certainly seems to have been! 😀

Dear Doug pls make a video on buddhism history after Islamic attack (1192 to till British period) in India.after 1192,nalanda university distroyed by bakhtiar khilji. It's subject of debate. History of buddhism after Islamic attack in India.

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

Well after that point Buddhism essentially splits into two, the northern, Mahāyāna/Vajrayāna branch in E Asia and the southern Theravāda branch in SE Asia. Most of my focus is on early (pre-sectarian) Buddhism so it's kind of outside my main focus.

@jamie-sims

3 жыл бұрын

I would recommend anyone interested in this listen to this podcast episode: tricycle.org/podcast/buddhism-muslim-stereotypes/ It criticises the idea that Islam is solely responsible for the decline of Buddhism in India and argues that the excessive focus on the destruction of nalanda is misused to justify negative stereotypes about Muslims (which obviously has real-world impacts, for instance in some Burmese monastics supporting the genocide on Rohingya Muslims).

Hey Doug, what about a video on early Buddhism's view on Sprul-pas, or Tulpas? I watched the movie The Empty Man and was surprised to see this concept apparently came from early Buddhism. Thanks!

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

Well in the early texts there is mention of a "mind-made body" as one of the supposed supernatural abilities of some people. It's not explained what it is though or how it is purported to have worked, so there's really not much to say about it.

@victorassis6329

3 жыл бұрын

@@DougsDharma well, the movie, being a horror one and not that good tbh, makes of course a big evil thing out of the concept. According to Wikipedia the Buddha would have used this "power" quite prominently in one of the tales of the Divyavadana, which i don't know if can be considered early text.

@victorassis6329

3 жыл бұрын

@@DougsDharma also, not sure it falls under the objectives of your channel, but i guess a video commenting on the mis/representations of Buddhism in popular culture could be quite entertaining. :)

Ello guys.

I do not understand why enlightened beings would seek the teachings of another enlightened being. What could possibly differentiate Guatama’s enlightenment from the enlightenment of other monastics. The only thing I could possibly think of is legitimacy.

I'd be curious to know who the 4 dislikes are. Dougs videos are so informative and I can't find any reason for anyone to take any issue with anything that was said. I guess the saying is true " haters gonna hate"

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

😄Who knows?

@calistafalcontail

2 жыл бұрын

Maybe some people find misinformation in what he says...

It also seems interesting to me that the Buddha rather had the unenlightened Ananda instead of any of the enlightened members in the sangha to teach the dharma in His place when He wasn't feeling well. Is there a hidden message in His decision in such case?

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

Possibly, though remember that as the Buddha's close attendant, Ānanda would usually be around him anyway.

@udayangadananjaya7914

2 жыл бұрын

According to theravada buddhism there are some natural rules like things we called as " dharmatha' .it says all buddha's personal caretaker deciple is unenlightened until buddhas parinirvana and it says also all buddha's wives , horse, the chariot driver( channa) and wajrasana( the place where bodhisattva will become buddha) will arise from erath or born in erath same at same day and same time the bodhisattva born at last birth as bodhisattva. And also another one is buddhas main deciples ( moggallana and saripuththa ) will be parinirvana (passed away) before buddha and also his wife in his houshold life will be parinirvana before buddha. And it says all buddhas birth mothers will passed away in 7 days after bodhisattva born. So these might looks like some stories in fairytales. But i think there must be some truth also.

I find it extremely difficult to believe that enlightened beings would be against a decision made by the Buddha (to allow for a nun's order), especially after his death. Would enlightened beings not be able to see different perspectives and not waste time on relatively pointless things like pushing for charges and punishments (as compared to practicing the dhamma) just because they "don't like" Ananda? Just sounds like ordinary people and not at all like enlightened beings. Is it possible that that's a part of history that's been misinterpreted or lost in translation?

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

It's hard to say for sure Dhanika. But the mere fact that the First Council is said to have been made up only of male monastics gives enough pause on its own. Why weren't enlightened Bhikkhunis invited? There certainly were many, since there is a whole book of poetry written by them.

@dhanikaponnamperuma9145

3 жыл бұрын

​@@DougsDharma Thank you for your reply! Indeed that does seem odd. What is your opinion Doug? Don't you think it's strange for enlightened beings to hold on to such views firmly and not be flexible?

notification !

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

👍

🙏

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

🙏🙂

Can you please do a study and investigation on The Yogacara Ulka-mukha Dharma Service.I cannot find early transition of bikku practicing this dharma .From my knowledge that is believed once a devil approached Anada and told him in three days he shall be dead and resurrected in hell.After that Anada run to Buddha for help and which Buddha prescribed this The Yogacara Ulka-mukha Dharma Service as a way to help the devil or the sentient being in hell of short relief of food and satisfaction.This which lead to Anada from going to hell.This is only known in Chinese Buddhism but to believe some part of mantra and sutras are believed to be practiced in Tibetan Buddhism.瑜伽焰口 this is what in Chinese

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

I'm not sure about that one Lartor Games. My main focus is on early Buddhism and it sounds like that's quite a late story.

@lartorgames

3 жыл бұрын

Then could do please do a video on summary video on what three different all believe and practice.Cause I’m Chinese Mahayana and investigation of Buddhism origin I have seen your Mahayana summary. Here is some thing you might not know all knowledge from diamond sutra apparently are early thoughts and believe of early Mahayana Buddhism.

@lartorgames

3 жыл бұрын

As I’m historian is disturb about information only after 500 years death of Buddha Mahayana Buddhism gets teach widely used.As everything was teached through oral.

As silly as it may sound, Ananda was actually an infamous playboy. Comparable to Don Juan or Giacomo Casanova. In more modern terms he was a player (and a Very good one)

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

Hmmmm ...

😮❤

Can you please lecture on Shakya State as Republic or Democratic state ? And Bhikkhus as social servants and their role for sociaty?

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

There isn't much information about the shakyan state to my knowledge, a lot is speculation. For a video about the sangha and politics see for example: kzread.info/dash/bejne/lXeGsNCBotTOp6Q.html

Doug, would you consider doing a video about Maha Kassapa, the man who berated Ananda and literally took over the Sangha after the Buddha died? There is a detailed bio of him at Access to Insight: www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/hecker/wheel345.html and en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mah%C4%81k%C4%81%C5%9Byapa

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

I'll put it on the list Aron!

Please do a video on kasina and abhignna

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the suggestion Osanda, I might do it eventually!

@osanda2313

3 жыл бұрын

@@DougsDharma thanks teacher

Also on the idea of some ultimate enlightenment rather than enlightenment being a practice Buddha apparently says this in the diamond sutraNo, Blessed One. There is no such thing as Perfect Enlightenment to obtain. If a Perfectly Enlightened Buddha were to say to himself, 'I am enlightened' he would be admitting there is an individual person, a separate self and personality, and would therefore not be a Perfectly Enlightened Buddha." Bodhidharma also suggested that if anybody had ever said that they have attained the ultimate enlightenment are outright liars.

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

Well the grammar of the first person singular aside, the Buddha did say quite clearly on many occasions that he was fully enlightened.

Who was Ananda? .....I was.

Did Doug just say he’s unenlightened. He’s mistaken!

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

😆 Oooooh no ... I'm not mistaken.

🙂🙏🏻

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

🙏🙂

Hi Doug, are you a Theravada Buddhist?

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

I'm most interested in early Buddhism, though I talk about my own practice here: kzread.info/dash/bejne/q4isrcmzaLDLh8o.html

Your the Mahayana Buddhist

@shawnhall482

3 жыл бұрын

He observes Theravada

I can't understand how could anyone who's enlightened could be a sexist. Mahākāśyapa and his group of "enlightened" cohort's resentment against nuns doesn't seem to be any enlightened quality to me. Furthermore, their holding that against Ananda is another distasteful quality that I can never imagined as any part of enlightenment. Maybe I'm simply confused and probably don't understand what enlightenment really is. I simply wish that when I should become enlightened, I won't have any trace of discriminating behavior.

@DougsDharma

3 жыл бұрын

Yes I agree, it's hard to fathom. It's of course always possible we aren't getting the whole or accurate picture.

Evam me suttam

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

🙏😊 evaṃ me sutaṃ.

Was there any basis for the controversy or were enlightened men simply being misogynistic?

@DipayanPyne94

3 жыл бұрын

They were NOT Misogynistic. Misogyny means Hatred of Women. The Enlightened Buddhists, by Definition, were Free of Greed, Hatred and Ignorance. So, they didn't hate anyone ...

@CosmicGorilla

3 жыл бұрын

@@DipayanPyne94 then what was their argument against nuns? If it was not a gender thing? The Buddha had allowed them and stated that women and men were equal in capacity for enlightenment and yet those who were left behind punished Ananda for influencing him. Also you are not correct about the definition of misogyny: it does NOT mean hatred. It means dislike, contempt and ingrained prejudice. Is at least one of these qualities possible in an enlightened one?

@DipayanPyne94

3 жыл бұрын

@@CosmicGorilla Well, Etymologically speaking, Misogyny is 'Hatred of Women'. Miso stands for Hatred and Gyny stands for Women. I mean, if I am not mistaken, it implies a kind of mindset driven by hatred of women. So, I guess the words Contempt and Prejudice mean, more or less, the same thing. If so, I think it's wrong to suggest that the Enlightened Buddhists, after Buddha's passing, were Misogynistic. In my Opinion, the Buddhists probably believed that Women should stay at home and protect the family structure. Also, they criticised Ananda probably because he was attached to the 'View' that women should be included in the Sangha. They probably wanted him to get rid of his desires. I mean, the Suttas tell us that Ananda was like a layperson in many ways. He expressed his emotions quite openly. To be honest, he is my favourite Buddhist, after Buddha himself, coz he was so much like us ordinary humans 😂 Anyway ...

@CosmicGorilla

3 жыл бұрын

@@DipayanPyne94 this is interesting. You will find that the dictionary definition of the word does not specify hatred. Etymological derivation often lose the original sense of the elements of their roots and, in the case of Modern English, the language that we are writing in the word does not engender hatred. A misogynist can love his/her mother, daughter, wife, girlfriend etc whilst holding women in some form of contempt. That aside ... you are making excuses because they could not be both misogynistic and enlightened (perfectly ethical) with this in mind I suggest that enlightenment is a delusional state and not a necessary belief. The men were programmed by their culture and that programming persisted after they decided that they were enlightened. If Ananda was punished for his attachment to the truth of equality then those punishing him should have been castigated for their attachment to their social conditioning. There are no gods, hungry ghosts, saints, no enlightened, only people and all people are evolved and, therefore, only physical entities incapable of ontological change.

@XxYngwiexX

3 жыл бұрын

​@@CosmicGorilla probably because the Buddha knew that not all his disciplines were enlightened so it would be really hard for them to practice non clinging and non desires (lust) if they were sorrounded by women .The budha probably just wanted to make things easier for them (living in seclusion) . Imaging that you are addicted to gambling and want to get rid of it , but you start practicing in a casino. Kind regards

This makes Buddha sound butt head stupid compared to Ananda. Maybe Buddha changed his mind due to his practicing beginners mind or I don't know? ;) There are a lot of enlightened buddhist people these days practicing I don't know. Also since everything's impermanent which could also mean, no decision is eternal either and the only thing you can count on is change. Where do you find this data in the sutra's about Ananda not being enlightened?

@DougsDharma

2 жыл бұрын

Well the suttas never discuss Ananda’s enlightenment experience. I believe that’s mentioned in the Vinaya.

Namo Buddha