this opened my eyes. i’m reformed but i have never understood the entire meaning of this passage. this was a fantastic explanation

@winburna852

Ай бұрын

The non-reformed people need to realize that the same author of 1 Tim, being Paul, shows that God grants repentance (that leads to salvation) in 2 Tim. Paul is being more specific in his next epistle to Timothy, and also elsewhere in his other epistles. Even John Calvin's commentary is fascinating here! Instead, non-reformed people split things up then mess up the context of the messages.

The puritan John Owen is excellent on this in his “Death of Death in the Death of Christ”.

Context and grammar are essential.

@normantaylor1711

2 ай бұрын

Exactly, and I still come out with a different interpretation. As he said, “if we’re honest…” I don’t want to take that out context lest I am also disparaged as an idiot.

@christsavesreadromans1096

2 ай бұрын

There is nothing in the context or grammar that necessitates it to be speaking about all kinds of people as opposed to all people.

First of all, then, I urge that petitions, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgiving be offered for everyone- for kings and all those in authority-so that we may lead tranquil and quiet lives in all godliness and dignity. This is good and pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who wants everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

I am reformed, but I interpret that passage a little differently. Remember, people go to hell because they willingly reject Christ. Does God will that they should reject Christ? No. He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked. He desires that they should not reject Christ. All are commanded to repent and believe. God displays good will to all men. But He chooses to pass over some, leaving them to their own desires. This doesn't negate His good will, for they are still commanded to repent and believe, and if they did, He would save them. But they won't. The really amazing thing is God does MORE than just desire for the elect to be saved. He actually accomplishes salvation on their behalf. As it's written, He is the savior of all men, ESPECIALLY those who believe. He went completely out of His way for the sake of His elect in a way that He did not for the rest. This doesn't make Him unjust. And it doesn't make His offer and call to those not chosen insincere, as again, they choose according to their own desires. But God chooses according to the hidden council of His will, and to the praise of His glorious grace, forever and ever.

I think the point Paul was trying make is that we are not to get political or arm ourselves to overthrow governments/kings. Rather pray. For he is saying that we should live quiet and godly lives. Expanding his thoughts with verse 8; 'I desire then that in every place the men should pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or quarreling'.

This was 100% helpful for me brother, thank you. I appreciate the Greek, and the spirit of debate you have. It brings to mind ironically Paul’s charge to Timothy in 1 Tim 1:18-19, keep fighting the good warfare man

God bless you and your faithful ministry ,for the edification of Christians in Christ, praying for you brother and your ministry

What app is he using for side by side comparison of NASB with Nestle-Aland?

Apreciate this explanation thankyou!

Such a good point at the end. Laboring - well put.

Also see Mark 10:45- Unless someone knows something about the original language that necessitates "many" to mean "all" in that verse, then the Arminian understanding of this passage in Timothy would be contrary to Jesus' own words. ("Ransom for many" vs. "Ransom for all").

@Apollos2.2

Жыл бұрын

Except that right in this same section, it says Jesus is a ransom for all. 1 Timothy 2:6 NKJV - who *gave Himself a ransom for all* to be testified in due time Now we have Mark 10:45 NKJV - “For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a *ransom for many* So do we have a contradiction, no, so we have too look at if further The "all" will include "the many". I think that's the way to see it. When Jesus said "many" It's only because everyone won't believe even though Jesus provided for them too. They just choose to harden their hearts and walk away.

This is great. Thanks a lot James White. Do you by any chance have resources to study the original languages, perhaps books or videos or audio files from some of your classes as I’m in England.

@blackfalkon4189

2 жыл бұрын

so anyway what if in the end it turns out you were never 'elect' but were predestined to the other camp all along - will you still accept G.d's sovereign will, or will you rebel?

@220SouthlandAve

Жыл бұрын

@@blackfalkon4189 See my reply on your copy and pasted (no disrespect, I've done it before too) response here that may be all the way down the list of comments here (not sure yet because I haven't looked at them all). My response to this question is on the comment at the top (as of today- 07/24/22). I do hope it encourages you and challenges your fallacious view of God's sovereignty 🙂. Be well, my friend.

@blackfalkon4189

Жыл бұрын

@@220SouthlandAve dunno if I'm thinking of the same post you are but anyway my question's valid & still stands, btw I'm asking you the same question ^^

@220SouthlandAve

Жыл бұрын

@@blackfalkon4189 it was under Bob4225 or something like that. Here's the answer again: "Obviously we wouldn't have a choice. We don't "accept" or reject God's sovereign will...God's sovereign will is just that- IT'S SOVEREIGN---meaning it does not depend on the acceptance or rejection of mere human beings. Do you even understand who God is?" -Sry about the last sentence, it was a little bit snarky.

What’s the name of the program/software he’s using for this presentation?

@gregory7406

2 ай бұрын

logo’s I think

@catholictruth102

2 ай бұрын

Accordance.

Every time the Bible uses the word “all” in reference to sinners calvinist agree it means everyone. However when the Bible uses the word “all” to say He died for everyone then it means all kinds of people.

6:32 'All' context can mean 'All' of each type class/group/type/kind. He says by stringed Genitives.

Funny how the Greek word for for intercession in Hebrews 7:25 isn't the same as the Greek word for mediator in 1Timothy 2:5. 1Timothy 2:5 is simply saying that there is only one way for humanity to get to God and that is through Christ Jesus.

@electronicMI

3 жыл бұрын

wrote: "Funny how the Greek word for for intercession in Hebrews 7:25 isn't the same as the Greek word for mediator in 1Timothy 2:5." Yes, and they're different in English too. However, look them up in a good dictionary, then look them up in a thesaurus. It's very much the same in Greek.

Nailed it once again, Dr. White. :) So proud of you, your staff and ministry. I'm always so edified with these exegetical response videos. My two-cents in response to this often misinterpreted Arminian Universalist proof-text in 1 Tim. 2, I also like to ask opponents to consider Paul's words in 1 Cor. 1:26-29: "For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, so that no human being might boast in the presence of God." In 1 Cor. 1:26-29, Paul makes sure to highlight the fact that the vast majority of the early church was comprised of the absolute lowest tiers and classes of human society which is summed up in the closing statement of 1 Cor. 1:29 "so that no human being might boast in the presence of God.'" In light of this sentiment and make-up of the early church body, Dr. White's point is significantly clearer and validated that Paul's writings to Timothy in 1 Tim. 2 were meant as an admonition and encouragement for Timothy and those under his leadership to put aside possible resentment or personal grudges against those in secular or worldly authority over them, and instead to reach out in prayer in the Spirit of Christ to invite even those who may have once persecuted them to become fellow Christians. Sure, we can certainly pray for every single person we come across, if we are so inclined, but this was not the intent or instruction Paul was suggesting. Instead as Dr. White points out, just because another person doesn't come from the same background or social class, we shouldn't deprive them of the same mercy or kindness that God would have us show them, especially if they are in a position of power. You see the body of Christ has always been INCLUSIVE of all KINDS of people, from all walks of life, just as Dr. White was sure to point out. But it was not inclusive of every single person as the Universalists foolishly propose as if that were some better form of "love" on God's part; it is a special, distinguishing, and personal love the Father shows for His elect children and one should not fall for the Universalist lie that because God "loves all people" therefore "God by default has to love me too". Instead one must weigh their own heart and consider what the true Gospel declares that Christ died for the sins of His people and was raised for their justification. If you are a sinner in need of grace, and see your own miserable, helpless condition, incapable of saving yourself but hear the words of our Savior to "come to Me and I shall give you rest for your souls" (Matt. 11:28), then by all means brother/sister go with haste, without delay and cry for mercy to our Great God and Savior Jesus Christ. Thanks Dr. White and Dividing Line, God's blessings in Christ always

@blackfalkon4189

2 жыл бұрын

so anyway what if in the end it turns out you were never 'elect' but were predestined to the other camp all along - will you still accept G.d's sovereign will, or will you rebel?

@jetwinslow2827

2 жыл бұрын

@@blackfalkon4189 if someone was predestined to go to hell then they would have no other choice but to rebel because that is all their heart desires. Whether someone accepts God’s sovereign will or not does not hold any power for or against it. God’s sovereign will is what it is and we can’t change that by our beliefs.

@blackfalkon4189

2 жыл бұрын

@@jetwinslow2827 1) that G.d's will cant be changed doesnt change that people can rebel anyway (even one of his angels rebelled) 2) Luther himself disagreed he said he would accept G.d's will no matter what 3) conceptually it's quite possible to imagine someone who truly believes in G.d, Jesus, salvation & atonement etc. but also fears the possibility that it wasnt for themselves personally (just like a person sees & envies a neighbor win the lottery but also doesnt know - yet - if they themselves won the draw & have a winning ticket or not) technically that person is still a believer plus they genuinely DO want to be 'elect' (unlike demons who just know but still hate G.d & dont care about heaven) so what happens to such believer? and back to 2) about Luther

Who was that preacher that prayed, "God save the elect and elect some more"?

@arkadiusw.897

3 жыл бұрын

That was D. L. Moody

@michaelburdge6748

3 жыл бұрын

I believe it was Spurgeon

@arkadiusw.897

3 жыл бұрын

@@michaelburdge6748 both. 👍

@michaelburdge6748

3 жыл бұрын

Arkadius W. Indeed he was, and that’s the point. The statement is an example of his wit.

@garrettcliser6840

3 жыл бұрын

That was Spurgeon

which software do you use?

@electronicMI

3 жыл бұрын

Dr. White uses Accordance Bible Software by OakTree Software, Inc., at www.accordancebible.com/

@catholictruth102

2 ай бұрын

Accordance.

what software is he using on his computer?

The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. - 2 Peter 3:9

@miketisdale7341

Жыл бұрын

“patient with YOU” or “patient toward YOU”. Just like what is discussed in this video, look at the context. If God was not patient towards His elect but brought fire and judgment before the last of His elect repents, then some of His elect would not reach repentance and would therefore perish. “Any” and “all” rarely are used in the most inclusive sense of the word. For example: Matthew 19:26 26 But Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God ALL things are possible.” Can God lie? From Hebrews 6:18 we know it is not possible for God to lie. Therefore, if you read Matthew here with the same fullest sense of “all“ that you are using in 2 Peter 3:9, this would be a contradiction. Context matters and I believe that the “any“ here is directed toward the “you“ that Peter focuses on.

@toolegittoquit_001

9 ай бұрын

And yet not all are saved 🧐

@barrettcarl3009

8 ай бұрын

​@@toolegittoquit_001right which means God's will isn't met here and isn't accomplished because man's free will choices decide that His will won't be met...

@snatchnefkin

7 ай бұрын

​@@barrettcarl3009 this was the entire topic of the video 😅

@barrettcarl3009

7 ай бұрын

@@snatchnefkin what was the topic? 🤔

Desiring and decreeing are two different things. We can desire a thing, yet opt for another thing. God does desire all men to be saved, but all men will not be saved. The Arminian says it's because God desires to honor free will even more so. The biblical truth is that God's glory is the highest good, so God is glorified more in displaying both His grace and justice.

@jessetoler8171

Ай бұрын

I agree that God's glory is the highest good, but how does it follow that God is glorified more in displaying grace on a predetermined set and justice on all of the rest?

@samuelrosenbalm

Ай бұрын

​@@jessetoler8171 I do not know the answer to that. I just know that it's important to God. Romans 9:22 says, "What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power..."...so here we see that God DESIRES to show His wrath and to make known His power. My best guess would be that it's because His wrath is as much an attribute of God as His mercy. And it's a good thing for God to be known. God is glorified both in the destruction of many and the salvation of a few. If mercy was something He handed out wholesale, it wouldn't be mercy. It would be cheap and common. But the few He bestowed His love upon, they will know Him in such a way as to be beyond words. His love and mercy is beyond words. But so is His wrath, reserved for the many. But to whatever end, God is glorified.

When will there be a translation that conveys what dull English readers like me don't grasp ? The translators saw this JW truth and fail to avoid the sloppiness of John 3:16 universalism. Genesis was able to talk about kinds of animals, but Greek fails millenia later.

The key to understanding any written text is the context of the text!!!!

Honest question from a confessionally Reformed bloke: I'm sure many, smarter than me, have asked this before... Can this "desire" of God speak of his _perfect will_ as distinguished from his _sovereign will_ In the same way that we pray for "his will to be done on earth as it is in Heaven?" It's not as if his sovereign will is accomplished any less on earth as it is in Heaven--so are we not praying for that which is good and perfect to take place on earth as it is in Heaven? Could 1 Tim 2 then, in the same way, be referring to the perfect desires of God? Can he not desire for all men to be saved, yet in his sovereign decree only elect some? I'm asking this sincerely. Christ even prayed in the garden "Not my will, but yours be done" indicating this type of difference between desires and sovereign decree. In another context, it is not his "desire" any people sin against Him, and yet we all do. In that sense, we constantly voilate his will when we sin----and yet his sovereign will is never voiated, since it cannot be broken. Not only that, but he indends good through the evil men commit against Him (Gen. 50).

1 Timothy ..'ALL MAN'. Paul asks them to pray for the salvation of all men on earth. Than, he asks them to pray for leaders because they are prosecuting Christians.

Also, we see examples elsewhere in Scripture of "all men" referring to "kinds of men". With respect to partiality/honor; 1 Pet.2:13-17, to Gods judgement; Rev. 19:17, 18.

@blackfalkon4189

2 жыл бұрын

so anyway what if in the end it turns out you were never 'elect' but were predestined to the other camp all along - will you still accept G.d's sovereign will, or will you rebel?

The very fact the "all" is what GOD desires means it can't mean everyone because GOD desires to harden hearts and send many to hell. How could any man thwart what GOD desires? If GOD "desires" everyone to be saved, everyone will be saved - period. It's clear, Paul's talking about people from all walks of life - not every individual.

@N81999

Жыл бұрын

And in a sense he desires every individual to be saved because the Scriptures says he finds no pleasure in the death of the wicked he would rather they turn and live… none of this indicates that he desires salvation for everyone in the same way. People try to humanize God and they need to stop. God has ordained things that he finds no pleasure in for his glory like creating vessel of wrath to display his patience

They say that we describe a tyrannical God. I say God can kill, save or have mercy on whoever he wants as often as he wants. I'm not in Hell right now and that's already mercy I don't deserve.

Sir, what about universalism about this issue?

@catholictruth102

2 ай бұрын

That’s heresy.

@blchamblisscscp8476

2 ай бұрын

Your question isn't clear. Are you asking how the universalist position leads to universalism? Dr.White explained it. If Christ intercedes for all men alike, there are 2 choices: all men are saved, or God is impotent. God cannot save a man who is not willing to be saved is the usual Arminian conclusion. That is, cannot. God has done everything He can and will do. Beyond that, He is powerless. What's the point of prayer if that is the case? There's no use in it, as God has gone as far as He is willing and able to do. Else, He can and does save all men alike. But that too should present a problem to the decisionist as that universal takes the "free will" away from the man entirely. The man has no choice but to be saved. So, I think there are two choices if you follow the universalist path. All are saved or Christ is impotent. The Reformed view is that Christ saves entirely all those whom he foreknew and, following the Golden Chain, those are the same whom he will glorify. No more, no less.

From the BDAG Lexicon, which is vastly more important to academia than the opinion of James White: β. w. a noun in the pl., without the art. πάντες ἄνθρωποι all people/men, everyone (Lysias 12, 60; Andoc. 3, 25; X., Cyr. 7, 5, 52, Mem. 4, 4, 19; Demosth. 8, 5; 18, 72) Ac 22:15; Ro 5:12a, 18ab; 12:17, 18; 1 Cor 7:7; 15:19; 2 Cor 3:2; Phil 4:5; 1 Th 2:15; 1 Ti 2:4; 4:10; Tit 2:11. πάντες ἄγγελοι θεοῦ Hb 1:6 (Dt 32:43; cp. Demosth. 18, 294 πάντες θεοί). James' issue is James. He's incredibly full of himself. His entire argument relies on the interpretation of scripture FIRST before understanding the individual definition of words, which is exactly backwards from proper due diligence. An amazing straw-man argument he's concocted. Good thing semitic language professors, which he's not, understand otherwise.

Do you think the prodigal son in Luke 15 was predestined to return back to his father or did he make a choice on his own to return? 💥Luke 15:18 I WILL GET UP & GO TO MY FATHER, and will tell him, “Father, I have sinned against heaven and in your sight"

@judithmargret5972

Жыл бұрын

Circumstances, providence drove him back after he found himself longing to be fed with the pods being fed to the pigs.

@T.Ravikumar

Жыл бұрын

@@judithmargret5972 Yes. That's what happens to man. Hearing the Good News shows him the hope in Christ & leads him to make the choice to go to the Savior (or to reject it). There's no destiny or fate (predestined election) @ play here.

@judithmargret5972

Жыл бұрын

@Ravikumar T You completely missed the point. In the prodigal son, he either had the choice to eat pig food, starve or go back to his father. It's an illusion of free will, no- one will willingly starve or eat pig's food, so he is forced by circumstances to go back to his father. We are dead in sin and can only choose according to our nature. Scripture tells us no-one seeks God Romans 3-10-17. God says we did not choose Him but He choose us John 15-16. Jesus said.. all that the Father has given Me, will come to me . John 6:37.

@judithmargret5972

Жыл бұрын

@Ravikumar T How anyone could believe that God who has done everything perfectly, would when it comes to salvation, would just haphazardly throw it out there, and say, My Son is going to suffer a horrifying death, but I just want to be fair here and say, it's up to you, take it if you want it. I'm going to make it possible to be saved, you just have to make the choice. The balls in your court I've done all I can. What a corruption of the Gospel. Jesus died for His elect, a certain group of people, then He keeps us. He did not die for the goats.

@T.Ravikumar

Жыл бұрын

@@judithmargret5972 The prodigal son realising his circumstance, seeks his dad's mercy. Exactly how man will seek God's mercy, on hearing the Good News & realising his circumstance (Gal 3:24). And, yes it God who chooses us for Salvation through His Son, based on our acknowledgement of the Gospel (Mat 10:32).

All these weirdos who cannot accept clear explanations about difficult teachings. Meh.

@WasLostButNowAmFound

3 жыл бұрын

@Steve Luibrand nothing clear? Read the church fathers yet? Rrad the bible yet? I guess no.

@WasLostButNowAmFound

3 жыл бұрын

@Steve Luibrand insulting you? which part?, reading is clear? in what method?, you are really very vague in your arguments. wondering where you learn how to cast a wide sweeping statement and try to win an argument that way.

I give all respect to James white, he is a very intelligent man. Unfortunately, as someone who adheres to what I call “biblical universalism,” I have to disagree with his take on things; and let Apostle Paul, within the context of 1 Timothy, explain himself In 1. Tim 2:4, Paul points out that the “all men” is the same as the “all men” in verse 6 who Christ gave himself a ransom for, which the scriptures further make clear was the “whole world” 1 John 2:2. Note, not only did John say Christ was a propitiation for “our” sin [ie] the believer/elect, but for the whole world [ie] those outside of being the elect. I see no restrictive qualifiers in 1 Tim 2:4. Paul is simply saying that he wants Timothy to pray for “all people”, which “includes” but isn’t “limited” to kings etc. 1 Tim 2:4: - who doth [will/thelō] all men to be saved, and to come to the full knowledge of the truth; Lexicon: Strong's - thelō:- Outline of Biblical Usage:- to will, have in mind, intend, to be resolved or determined, to purpose, to desire to wish to love, to like to do a thing, be fond of doing, to take delight in, have pleasure. The word thelō is in verb form, and it doesn’t lend itself to some form of wishful thinking, it speaks of action and purpose [ie] God intends to save “all” men or purposes for “all” men to be saved. Apostle Paul then goes on to explain exactly what he meant 1 Tim 2:4:- 1 Timothy 4:10:- For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have set our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of “all mankind”, [especially] of believers. I fail to see how the context doesn’t fit with universalism. Paul simply states that God is the saviour of “all mankind”, and “within” that “all” are believers. The word “especially” is an adverb of the word “special” and it is used in the following context: - especially: - adverb: - used to single out one person or thing over “all” others. [ie] “he despised them [all], [especially] Jeremiah” In the example above, Jeremiah is part of the [all] that is despised yet he is singled out for an even stronger despising than the rest. So for me personally 1 Tim 4:10 in context is saying, God, is the saviour of “all” mankind yet believers are being singled out for a “special” kind of salvation [ie] the elect. To make this reasoning clearer:- Gala 6:10. :- So then, while we have opportunity, let’s do good to “all people” and “especially” to those who are of the household of the faith. Paul isn’t saying only do good to those that believe, he is saying that believers are to do good to “all” men, yet whilst doing this, believers are to treat other believers with “special” goodness. This is another example of why I reason it’s the same context at 1 Tim 4:10, Paul isn’t saying God is only going to save believers, but that he is going to save “all” men whilst giving his chosen [ie] the elect “special” salvation. [ie] They are saved, being saved and will be saved, they will be transformed at Christ’s coming, 1 Corinth 15: 52, they will be spared the wrath of God, 1 Thess 5:9, they will be “inheritors” of the kingdom, they are made into a kingdom of priests Rev 1:6, and they will Judge/rule with Christ in his Fathers coming kingdom Rev 20:4. Only a few are “chosen” to share in these “special” privileges, therefore I reason it’s only the elect in this age who will be given such positions in the next. Yet, Paul focusing on the elect being called and chosen in this present age doesn’t mean he didn’t acknowledge God's plan to save “ALL” in the ages to come. Peace

Then "WHO" does God desire to be saved? Just the "Kings?" White doesn't bother to tell us who the "all" men" are that God desires. FAIL. Then White goes on to claim Paul is speaking about a group as opposed to individuals so "he cannot possibly be speaking of all individuals." So....Romans 9 is only about "individuals? So then White says "God desires all Kings to be saved." So since God desires their salvation and in calvinism always saves those He desires to save, were the King(s) associated with Timothy's jurisdiction(s) saved? No.

@billyr9162

2 жыл бұрын

Yes. Finally someone got it. God desires to save only the kings and the rulers. For his kingdom is made up of his kings and priest. Paul did not tell Timothy that the 1st thing they need to do is to pray for Caesar. If you have a problem in the church with false preachers the 1st thing you do is not pray for Caesar. That would be stupid. Yet for some reason that's what lots of people think. It's just dumb. Kings is a metaphor for the preachers in the church. It's used that way several times in The Bible. But doctor white is supposed to be the Greek expert but he didn't catch it. Go figure. If he would have bothered to pick up the strongs and mcclintock cyclopedia he would see that kings is used as a metaphor that way. There's also a book called the metaphors of Paul by David Williams. Apparently that book is not in white's library.

White Rocks!

Dr. White puts up a good explanation. However, general speaking, would it compromise God's sovereignty for Him to desire all men to be saved, even though He saves only the elect?

@bobpolo2964

3 жыл бұрын

It would not

@gabrielkinzel3389

3 жыл бұрын

I beg to differ

@bobpolo2964

3 жыл бұрын

@@gabrielkinzel3389 Are you referring to me?

@gabrielkinzel3389

3 жыл бұрын

Oh wait, I totally misread the main comment 😖 I don’t beg to differ with ya... whoops

@bobpolo2964

3 жыл бұрын

@@gabrielkinzel3389 cool

What about the 'all' in 2 Corinthians 5 : 14 and 15 ?

@SilphyPlays

3 жыл бұрын

Bro, in calvinist's dictionary, "all" refers only to elect. Can't you get it already?

@prashanthjames9102

3 жыл бұрын

@@SilphyPlays bro, what does the Bible say in context?

Also, if those he calls, he also saves is correct. Why does revelation 3:14-22 exist? Wasn’t the lukewarm church called? Why are they not saved then?

@Caleb-xf5yn

3 ай бұрын

Who said they aren't saved? You? They are saved. That's why a concerned Lord rebukes them to get their act together. Those the Lord loves He disciplines. He scourges every son whom He receives.

@BPope0558

3 ай бұрын

@@Caleb-xf5yn but it’s up to THEM to turn back to God. He certainly corrects but it’s on us to have ears.

@BPope0558

3 ай бұрын

@@Caleb-xf5yn ”“I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.“ ‭‭Revelation‬ ‭3‬:‭15‬-‭16‬ ‭NKJV‬‬ How does this suggest they are saved?

@haiasinosdnah0813

2 ай бұрын

@@BPope0558how does this suggest they are not saved??? So if they were indeed cold rather than lukewarm, they would have been even more so unsaved? This passage is a simple rebuke, it doesn’t infer their salvation as you are asserting. Just as in the same way when Christ strongly rebuked Peter by saying “Get behind me, Satan!” Didn’t infer the salvific state of Peter, this rebuke doesn’t infer that church’s salvific state. You’ll have to insert that outside concept into the text. Surely being called Satan is worse than being called lukewarm and we know that Peter was saved at the end. We don’t know the resulting salvation of the lukewarm church. Possibly because it wasn’t meant for us to know.

No need to read “Reformed” interpretations of the texts, because prior to Augustine, and including Jesus and the apostles writing, no “Reformed” interpretations existed.

All including kings who are temporally your enemies. Yes, but this doesn't mean kings are a type of man that they should be praying for (for instance: carpenters, money changers, etc.). All men then means all from all classes including those that are persecuting you. This doesn't mean some men from all classes. If Paul wanted to say all kinds he could have parsed it that way.

If God didn’t select his elect, no one would be saved 😌

@donhaddix3770

5 ай бұрын

not by the bible.

@donhaddix3770

2 ай бұрын

@jtr3190 universal freewill choice doe not mean universal salvation.

I myself hold the view of God’s Sovereignty, but I have no idea who is chosen to be saved. As Jesus told Nicodemus, “The wind blows where it wishes, and we do not know where it comes from, so are those who are born of the Spirit. That being said; I pray for whoever comes to my mind or whoever I come across. I think (and I could be wrong) this is what a text like this implies. Example: If I pray for Biden, and his administration (although I can’t save him), I pray for him because I live in the US and the scriptures say to pray for those in authority. God saves, and works out his plan, I just have to obey what he says. The bottom line is this, God does what he wants, when he wants, saves who he wants (clearly those who are chosen are saved), because he is God, and He does anything he pleases. Anything less, he wouldn’t be God.

@billyr9162

2 жыл бұрын

Not many people understand that verse. Good to see someone understand it. I'm talking about John. As far as 1 Tim 2:1. It's not talking about rulers of your country. It's talking about the ruler's kings in priest of the church. That's what the letter is about. That's the whole first page. 1st thing If there's a problem with false preaching in the church, is you pray for the leaders in your church not the leaders of your country.

Blindness to contextual necessity preceeds many of these comments ; so much so that, even though brother White is reading directly from the Greek, demonstrating the term "all men", as in all without distinction (types of men) ; pathetically still ; some furnish, from synergistic desparation ; an English bible version of the term, that purposefully renders the "all men," as "everyone" ; so that their itching ears might hear "every man" without exception, having been offered the chance to be Saved.".. This tells me that people aren't really interested in discovering the actual contextual Truth, as the Greek words have clearly brought out.. I find this to be a complete lack of personal integrity, and a demonstration of fear, on any interpreter's part ; that is ; having their heart's wishful desire for a human free-will sovereignty teaching ; determine the parameters the Scriptures ; determine what they want to hear ; which is ; God's Christic Sacrificial Expression of Love for every single person who's ever lived in the world ; and who quite frankly, according to the Adamic curse, still in effect ; have never deserved it ; having been at enmity with God.. The Truth is, that many have been pretending to be concerned about everyone else's free choice opportunity ; but in their hearts, it's been their own personal opportunity that they've been caring about, mostly ; that they might've leveraged works righteousness, against God ; undeniably ; to have earned it by works discipline ; which in most dark hearts, will've solidified the right that they'd deserved the favor, thence.. Therefore, if they can't "see" man's free-will to choose God and salvation, demonstrated in the scriptures ; they'll say then like many ; "I will never worship a God like that, Who Chooses Whom He Wills, to Mercy," "that's evil" ; whilst masking their own evil ; the inner enmity and cowardice, to accept God instead, as Powerful and Free.. So there's this constant fighting against any contextual revelation of Divine Election, from the Savior's inspired Words.. Men have been clearly lying to other men, to keep them comforted ; as hearts have been searching for rest, in a safe doctrine, that will've supported the use of human free-will power, determining Divine outcomes ; that essentially forces the hand of The One Sovereign God ; to thereby reward... However, He's insured that His Elect might never be able to do this ; by making the choice Himself ; to empower men, before hand ; having them thence come to Yeshua contritely, as undeserved.. The contextual Truth is ; that there's no escaping His Freedom, from any of His Scriptures.. It's futility..

The Lovers of Self in 2 Tim 3:2 will cry in the comments section here, attempting to exhalt their imaginary autonomous free will they worship, to the dethroning of the Sovereighnty of the LORD, thus being thieves and robbers, as decreed they be.

Many assume Calvin supported Calvinism (which developed after his death), not exactly the case, read below Calvin on 1 Tim 4:2. Verse 4 4Who wishes that all men may be saved. Here follows a confirmation of the second argument; and what is more reasonable than that all our prayers should be in conformity with this decree of God? And may come to the acknowledgment of the truth. Lastly, he demonstrates that God has at heart the salvation of all, because he invites all to the acknowledgment of his truth. This belongs to that kind of argument in which the cause is proved from the effect; for, if is certain that all those to whom the gospel is addressed are invited to the hope of eternal life. In short, as the calling is a proof of the secret election, so they whom God makes partakers of his gospel are admitted by him to possess salvation; because the gospel reveals to us the righteousness of God, which is a sure entrance into life. Hence we see the childish folly of those who represent this passage to be opposed to predestination. “If God” say they, “wishes all men indiscriminately to be saved, it is false that some are predestined by his eternal purpose to salvation, and others to perdition.” They might have had some ground for saying this, if Paul were speaking here about individual men; although even then we should not have wanted the means of replying to their argument; for, although the will of God ought not to be judged from his secret decrees, when he reveals them to us by outward signs, yet it does not therefore follow that he has not determined with himself what he intends to do as to every individual man. www.studylight.org/commentaries/cal/1-timothy-2.html

@matt8637

3 жыл бұрын

Would you parse this out more? Is Calvin saying God desires all to be saved, as in everyone?

@reformedcatholic457

3 жыл бұрын

@@matt8637 In a sense yes, God invites all to be saved. He even says this in the all usual passages that Synergists use against Reformed, in John 3:16 commentary he states God invites all to be saved. I have no idea where the Reformed got the idea that God doesn't invite all to be saved, no one really must read Calvin's commentaries on these topics.

@Parks179-h

3 жыл бұрын

Biblical Theology you have missed Calvin’s point of that is your conclusion.

1:53 - 4:00 white bloviates before offering his puny excuse. "Kings/Rulers" etc may be emphasized as a starting point of who to begin with. If White is right, then God would only want all "Kings" to be saved? LoL!

@billyr9162

2 жыл бұрын

That's because he does want only the king's and rulers saved. The kings and rulers are the people in the church. It's a metaphor. Kings is used as a metaphor for people in the church several times. His people are the kings and rulers in kingdom. We are priest and kings. The Bible says so. Read the 1st page of 1st Timothy. He starts off by telling Timothy there's a problem with false preachers in the church. So why on Earth on the 2nd page would he start it off by saying the 1st thing they have to do is pray for Caesar. That would be stupid. Why on Earth everybody interprets it that away is beyond me.

@shakazulu365

2 жыл бұрын

@@billyr9162 you are an idiot, "several times." And aren't people in the church already saved? You can leave calvinism, ya know.

@billyr9162

2 жыл бұрын

@@shakazulu365 The word "saved" doesn't only mean go to heaven. It means to rescue someone. Or to take from one place to another. Paul said be saved and come to the knowledge of truth. In other words he wants the false preachers to be saved from their false preaching and come to truth. That's what the whole letter is about. Duh! It's the Greek word Sozo. It's a word used in the Greek language all over the place. Not just The Bible. I'm not a Calvinist.

Could you record your preaching and post online?

@c.chinaski3156

3 жыл бұрын

They're up on the 'Apologia Studios' KZread channel :)

God wants all men to be saved. But all men don't want to be saved. John 3:19-20. 2 Peter 3:9

@stwickers

3 жыл бұрын

I guess you didn't understand a thing that James White said or else you didn't even bother to listen.

@christsavesreadromans1096

2 ай бұрын

@@stwickersNothing in the text necessitates that it must be read the way he’s proposing.

@christsavesreadromans1096

2 ай бұрын

@jtr3190 That’s what the text says. It says He desires that all are saved.

All kinds of men is the same as everybody. God only wants some people to be saved? I don’t think so.

@rayortiz6189

3 жыл бұрын

it is not the same thing as everybody, literally everybody is universalism. I would recommend reading Romans 9 to see if your presupposition holds

@marybeneke1543

3 жыл бұрын

Ray Ortiz Its available to everybody but only applies to those whom He elects.

@rayortiz6189

3 жыл бұрын

@@marybeneke1543 that doesnt evem make sense, the elect were elected to salvation, thats why theyre the elect, the chosen, the called, his sheep, etc

@marybeneke1543

3 жыл бұрын

Ray Ortiz God did die for all mankind according to 1 Timothy 4:10 “To this end we labor and strive, because we have set our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men and especially of those who believe.” How else would you take that verse to mean other than Jesus died for all?!

@rayortiz6189

3 жыл бұрын

@@marybeneke1543 all mankind means not just the jews but people from all languages, tribes and nations. Romans 3:9-10 (ESV): What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, 10 as it is written: ●●it says "all" but then lists 2 people groups. consistently in the NT we see jews vs non jews; the gentiles, the world, the pagans; the uncircumcised vs the circumsion etc. You have to understand that the jews thought the messiah was only for them, Ephesians 2:11-13 says how gentiles were once without hope have now beem brought near. Romans 10-11 is another example of where "all" is defined as jew and gentile. Gal 3, Col 3. If Jesus died for literally every person, then all would be saved. This is the heresy of universalism. Jesus did not die to potentially save anyone, he died and rose again actually securing salvation for the elect/his sheep. Remember Jesus said he has sheep from another fold (again, jew + gentiles into 1 body, 1 flock)

Jesus only intercede for all those in christ in a special way. And asign the Holy Spirit to work and will in all men as well. But God can not preach the Gospel Himself to all man. Thus, he asks Christians to reach the world so that every man on earth could hear the Gospel. GOD desires all man to hear the Gospel and accept Christ as saviour.

The phrase 'all kinds' never appears, it is something you have to put into the text. In this passage, if Paul wanted to make that appeal, surely he could have said rulers, fishermen, farmers, peasents, or even just Jews and Gentiles. There is no broad sweep for all kinds. He is specific about Kings, govenors, senators and the like. So if you are going to pass that down to verses 4 and 6, you have to say God wants to save all Kings and rulers, and Jesus died for all Kings and rulers, specificaly. So are ALL kings and rulers saved? Also, God had said to Israel, 'You alone have I chosen'? So from JW's perspective that must mean every single, individual Israelite ever, has eternal life. Even the ones who abandoned YAHWEH to serve other God's? The basic principle that God is love and wishes no one to perish is everywhere. See Ezekiel. But we have to recieve him, that is the covenant he gave us.

@Caleb-xf5yn

3 ай бұрын

Doesn't seem to me like that was what he was saying. I understood him to mean that the reason to be praying for these people in positions of power was for the protection and peace of believers from persecution. I didn't derive the conclusion some people do. I have no problem with what he said.

universal freewill choice doe not mean universal salvation.

when Speaking of Calvinism... I am I deff for predestination.. i believe God is sovereign.. I believe this to be true.. seeing things unfold in my life, in such a undeniable way... that he is in control.. of all things... to sum up... Although I’ve also came to the conclusion... that if we say we don’t have a “will” or a “way”... then this would be limiting Gods capabilities within his creation... I believe being sovereign.. but also us having some sort of “way”... is something we can’t fathom... and to act as if we fully understand.. or even are close to understanding... is arrogant.. and it seems at times Dr.White/Calvinism is arrogant in this way.. Of course there is many verses to go to... but I believe one that says it all Best... “A man’s goings are from The Lord, how then can a man understand his own way” THIS verse says that we have a “way” but we can’t really understand it... are goings are of the Lord... but we do have a way.. we jus can’t really understand it... So trying to act as if u fully understand “our way” and God sovereignty... is arrogance

All= pas = 100% of mankind

Dear Mr. James White. I know that "all" only means "all" when you say so. However, I want to show you something in the Holy Scriptures that you will not be able to deny unless, of course, you think that God lies. Isaiah 26:9 says, "For when (not now.future) Thy judgements (yes God's judgements) are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world (that's everyone) will learn righteousness." Now then, Mr. White, you will agree with me that this has never happened before. But the Scriptures can assure us that this will happen unless God lies and His Holy Scriptures lie or that Isaiah was a false prophet. God assures us that when His judgements are in the earth, everyone WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS. Now then, there is no "ALL" in the above verse, so you will not be able to twist and say that it is speaking about "all types of people."" You either believe what God has said or you will have to call Him a liar and you will have to conclude that Isaiah was a false prophet Which one will it be?

Aah..the difficult task of the biblical exegete. The counter argument is going to be obvious. "You're inserting words. Words to facilitate your interpretation. Why don't we all just go around adding words we think should've been included." Or the larger question of the skeptic: "Why would God leave any ambiguity in His writing about such important considerations?"

@a-aron6724

3 жыл бұрын

The ambiguity of scripture is obviously on purpose. God made it that way so that only the people he chooses will understand the truth. A true believer will not accept falsehood, they will seek and seek until God gives them the knowledge of the truth.

@a-aron6724

3 жыл бұрын

Some people are only serving religious systems of men and not the living God himself. This ambiguity will confound those who are not pure in their motives They'll believe a lie and be damned because they didn't have a love for the truth

@electronicMI

3 жыл бұрын

Are you that skeptic?

@a-aron6724

3 жыл бұрын

@@electronicMI you'll have to elaborate on what you mean? Am I skeptical of what?

@electronicMI

3 жыл бұрын

@@a-aron6724 : I wasn't asking you.

all is everyone who ever lived. Calvinism adds meaning never saved. otherwise you have to believe God wants some to go to hell.

Calvinists: 'World' means a small group. 'All' means a handful. 'All people' means some people. 'God is not willing' means God IS willing 'All people, everywhere' means a small group somewhere. 'Choose life' doesn't mean you get a choice. 'He doesn't want anyone to perish' means he wants people to perish. 'The Lord takes no pleasure when the wicked die' means the Lord takes pleasure when wicked people die-he extracts glory (pleasure) from their death. 'Blotting people out of the book of life' doesn't mean they were actually written in the book of life. 'Branches being broken off due to unbelief' doesn't mean those branches were attached. Is this an episode of the Twilight Zone?

@pateunuchity884

3 жыл бұрын

Awe, Jay... You gonna have to work to stay saved. How’s that working for it you?

@HiVisl

3 жыл бұрын

@@pateunuchity884 Er,…no. 😆

@pateunuchity884

3 жыл бұрын

@Jay Dub That bad huh...

@HiVisl

3 жыл бұрын

​@@pateunuchity884 I don't know what point you think you're trying to make. I really have no time for your childish little mind-games nor your proud commitment to low-level cult teaching(s). Don't bother responding again, you funny, low-browed little man. 😘

@pateunuchity884

3 жыл бұрын

@Jay Dub Provisionism that hard to defend? 😂

Laughable. This guy never ceases to amaze.

@jamiejame911

3 жыл бұрын

I did in the thread.

@danielomitted1867

2 жыл бұрын

Thats just an infantile response to whats being stated in the video.

The elect are predestined for salvation. Who chose the elect? God chose. Angry that God chooses? Present your arguments to God. Before you argue with God, you might want to see what happened when Job decided to shake his fist at God.

@a-aron6724

3 жыл бұрын

We aren't arguing with God, we argue with men who think they represent what God does and doesn't do. God does call the elect, does that mean the elect will respond and once they do respond does that mean they will endure to the end?

@electronicMI

3 жыл бұрын

@@a-aron6724 wrote: "God does call the elect, does that mean the elect will respond and once they do respond does that mean they will endure to the end?" Yes.

@a-aron6724

3 жыл бұрын

@@electronicMI I disagree

@electronicMI

3 жыл бұрын

@@a-aron6724 : Show me in Scripture. And please, no wall of text.

@orangez1986

3 жыл бұрын

@@a-aron6724 yes, John 6, Romans 8, etc etc.

But trust me. Listening to people preach free will is much more annoying..

False dilemma / straw man: "Either Paul is saying break out your Ephesians phonebook and pray for each person in the city by name" or "he's saying only pray for all kinds of men but not every single person" It's a false dilemma because White is not considering the third option that you don't need to pray for each person by name in order to pray for every single person. The third option is: Paul is instructing believers to pray for every single person which can easily be done by praying something like "Father, I pray for all people and all leaders in our land, that you would..." If we were to sincerely pray the way White suggests, it would sound like "God I'm not praying for every person or leader in our land, just praying for some of them, that you would..." Are we really to believe, as White suggests, that there are people that God does not desire to come to him? If we really believed that, we would be lying if we went up to the lost and said "God desires for you to turn from your sin and follow him". It would be lying because we don't know if that person is or isn't one of the people God desires to be saved. It would be more consistent for White to go up to the lost and say "I don't know if God desires you to follow him". What kind of a message of God's love is that to the unbeliever? If I heard that message, I would be like "Ha, you don't know if God loves me enough to offer his Son for me? Why would I want to follow that God? I guess I'll wait until he offers me hope."

The message of free will is loved by the world.

Potential Salvation? That's an utter strawman!

@rayortiz6189

3 жыл бұрын

its only a strawman if you believe in universalism, which is a heresy lol

@gabrielkinzel3389

3 жыл бұрын

W.L. Craig would disagree

So Paul here is talking to a persecuted church and saying: pray for all men. The church would then say even the kings/authorities who are persecuting us?? Then he says yes, he desires all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. It's two all men statements with sub categories of people sandwiched between them who they would have had difficulty praying for. You only get to universalism if you assume God's will is always accomplished, but that's a never supported anywhere in the Biblical story. And to say "all" modifies "kinds" is completely wrong because now you have completely changed what the word is modifying.

@Phill0old

2 жыл бұрын

Maybe James wasn't clear enough. I will try and explain. You, wrongly, assume that all means "each and every individual". That it doesn't necessarily mean that is abundantly clear from scripture. Luke 11:42. Did the Pharisees tithe each and every herb in existence? No, of course not, they tithed all the kinds that they used. There are so many verses where it doesn't mean each and every individual. So let's just put down your assumed meaning. Let's see what Paul is instructing them to do and see whose understanding fits. 1) Pray for each and every single person in the world ever 2) Pray for all kinds of people, even those who persecute you Now you might claim that you didn't say it means each and every single person ever but you are then being horribly inconsistent because in the same passage you are saying that all men ever are who God wants to save. So why, if it means each and every person ever in one verse doesn't it mean that in this verse? That's the problem you have, you have to keep switching the meaning to avoid the very text you are using from refuting itself. Now I say that it means all kinds of people, and I don't have to alter ego to pray for or who God desires to be saved to be different groups. So you say, pray for some people because God wants to save all people. Which is not logical. I say pray for all kinds of people, good and bad, because God wants to save all kinds of people. Now I have another refutation just to show how wrong your reading is. Let's imagine that it says that God desires everyone ever to come to the knowledge of the truth and be saved. Ok I agree, He does. But the Bible says that the people concerned suppress the very revelation of God to them, so they won't be helped by it. So what now? God desires to save them, how can that happen. Well if you are right then the means of that desire coming to pass is the means to which the Ephesians are directed. Namely they must pray for everyone. If they don't how will God's desire be accomplished? So if they don't do it then people won't get saved and it's it them, right? If not then why tell them? Because they aren't told to pray for these people to be saved! They are told to pray for them so that the people praying can be left to live in peace. In fact salvation isn't even being discussed in this passage but safety and security. God desires that they pray that everyone lives properly so that society is a safe and good place to live. Want to disagree? Ok so if it means salvation here why doesn't it mean salvation a few verses later in verse 15? Once again you are forced to ignore the reason for the instruction and change the meaning of the Greek word to stop the text defeating you. Unless you believe that women are eternally saved by giving birth? Both of those refutations work and are coherent and use consistent exegesis and hermeneutic. Yours didn't but instead inserts meaning where your theology needs it to be. One refutation is what I believe to be the case, one is not but both show you can't be right. Regards Phil

@adamrichardson5224

2 жыл бұрын

@Phil Saunders actually the word used for saved through childbearing is talking about salvation. So throughout all of 1 Timothy 2 the word saved is used the same way. No changing the word to suit any particular doctrine. The one changing it is you. Tell me honestly do you desire every single person ever to be saved from hell? Saved in the sense everyone repents, trusts in Jesus, and calls on the name of the lord etc. The issue that you've been fooled into believing is that every kind of people group is different then every person. I tell you to pray, even for corrupt leaders. That follows I should pray for all people. Which makes God saying he desires all to be saved mean the same thing either way. Do you see the point? the other issue is as I stated that you don't think it's talking about salvation. It is throughout the entire chapter, again no change. We can also see this interpretation very obviously supported by Paul in the beginning of Romans 9 where he clearly wants all of his Jewish bretheren to be saved. And yet why does he have sorrow if it's only about kinds of people who will be saved, and not all of his brothers as a whole? I can guarantee you he was doing as God commanded and praying for all of his people to be saved. I know I love my family members who are in hell, regardless of their punishment. I truly desire them to be saved. I know God is infinitely better then me in everyway. This is supported clearly in scripture to the point a child understands and you must be taught to get it wrong.

@Phill0old

2 жыл бұрын

@@adamrichardson5224 You are clearly a heretic if you think that a woman is eternally saved by bearing children. No such teaching is to be found in the church. I do not desire that everyone ever be saved since that would be 1) To wish that God had saved people that He chose not to 2) To wish that God would save people now and in the future that He has not chosen to do 3) To directly contradict Jesus on whether everyone will be saved I cannot earnestly desire that Judas be saved, for instance nor Saul nor Cain or Adam and there will be others. I certainly do wish that all men would turn to Christ. However since I don't know who the elect are I earnestly pray for the salvation for many people with no idea whether they will be saved or not but I trust that God, the Lord of all the Earth will do right. Like Isaiah I seek God's intervention on their behalf but accept His will. I am sure you are going to pretend that you love everyone that ever lived and earnestly desire that they be saved. I am going to check your answer with a reality check. What do you do that demonstrates that you earnestly desire the salvation of every person living or who will ever live? I am expecting awesome responses - not really because the laziest non evangelistic Christians I have ever met were Arminian whereas the most committed evangelists I know of were Reformed. Anyway let's see how you explain that giving birth is an alternative to faith and tell me about your deeds to demonstrate your commitment to what you claim is the right way. Please don't use that "if they do all this they will be saved" cop out because that is salvation by works. And don't claim that sozo always means eternal salvation because Matthew 8:25, Matthew 9:22, Matthew 14:30, Matthew 27:40, Matthew 27:49, Mark 5: 23,28 & 34 etc etc where it does not. Although I read an SBC minister who claimed it always means eternal salvation in the NT. SBC Arminians eh? You just can't trust them as far as the first book of the NT!

@adamrichardson5224

2 жыл бұрын

@@Phill0old you can just read about the context of 1 Timothy 2 and see what the passage means when it says she will be saved by child bearing. You are not supported in your opinions on saved meaning something other then salvation, even among reformed theologians to my knowledge. Like genuinely just look into it more. It has nothing to do with actually literally saved by giving birth (which is not what I said), simply talking about a women's role in life. I think you misunderstood my argument. You are the one changing saved to mean safety from physical things. I am saying the word has the same meaning and you can figure out how that makes sense. I focus on this verse because it is very important to understand and not sweep away. If the meaning of 2:4 stands then Calvinism falls.

@adamrichardson5224

2 жыл бұрын

@@Phill0old I think you've purposely thrown away love for humanity in favor of what Calvinism has taught you

You are so confusing and I know God is not a God of confusion. So if this is referring to a “category of men” are all Americans saved or unsaved? 😂 do we get to use individualism so we’re not all lumped into the same category? I hope one day you see that your “categories of men“ just doesn’t make sense when you read the whole Bible. You’re basically saying the Bible shouldn’t have worded it that way. Jesus came for all men that whoever hear, and believe shall be brought in his grace. We must then die to the flesh and walk in the spirit for his glory.

White never fails in his endeavor to read Calvinism on top of everything thereby changing clear and didactic texts into jumbled messes of confusion.

@electronicMI

3 жыл бұрын

Hey, TLA. Where did you disappear to last time on the DL Highlights?

@TrueLifeAdventures

3 жыл бұрын

@@electronicMI I've been here all along. Lol!

@TrueLifeAdventures

3 жыл бұрын

@@Isaac-wl6wu I assume you directed your question to me personally. God is pleased to save 100 percent of those that believe and He is pleased to do it 100 percent of the time. There is no failure to save on God's part :)

@electronicMI

3 жыл бұрын

@@TrueLifeAdventures : Your OP from the comments section of the DL Highlights video, "Radio Free Geneva with William L. Craig on Romans 9," is gone.

@TrueLifeAdventures

3 жыл бұрын

@@electronicMI I've had that happen before. Dunno 🤷‍♂️

It is entirely possible to believe that God's will is supreme and that everybody He wants to be saved will be saved and also believe that all men means all men not just types of men. Is it possible that God would be more glorified by damning people who rejected him, who could have done otherwise (by grace of course, which was resisted in the case of the damned)? Consider Matt. 12:42, they are punished more because more was revealed to them and they still didn't believe. God always places responsibility on man when they do wrong even if God's will is supreme over everything (Romans 9). Those who God has chosen will be saved, God's will is never thwarted and it seems that people are condemned who reject Christ, people who could/should have done otherwise.

James focuses on the second verse rather than the first so that he can act as though all really doesn’t mean all… it’s always straight to a language most people don’t understand to make himself seem smarter than us layman.

@Tiger29532

2 жыл бұрын

“It’s always straight to a language most people don’t understand” is a funny way of saying he’s looking at the text in the way it was actually written. He’s not trying to make himself seem smarter than “us laymen” (even though he is), that’s not the point-the point is to look at the original text and explain it in a way that those who don’t understand it, can. I don’t understand any more greek than I do Mongolian but this video was very clear to me. If you don’t understand, you just weren’t listening.

@AllforOne_OneforAll1689

Жыл бұрын

He's reading the whole passage in context. You can get a false reading by isolating a verse by itself.

Dr. John Gill (1697-1771) Reformed Baptist scholar, theologian, preacher, biblical exegete, writes concerning 1 Tim. 2:4 --- "Who will have all men to be saved,.... The salvation which God wills that all men should enjoy, is not a mere possibility of salvation, or a mere putting them into a salvable state; or an offer of salvation to them; or a proposal of sufficient means of it to all in his word; but a real, certain, and actual salvation, which he has determined they shall have; and is sure from his own appointment, from the provision of Christ as a Saviour for them, from the covenant of grace, in which everything is secured necessary for it, and from the mission of Christ to effect it, and from its being effected by him: wherefore the will of God, that all men should be saved, is not a conditional will, or what depends on the will of man, or on anything to be performed by him, for then none might be saved; and if any should, it would be of him that willeth, contrary to the express words of Scripture; but it is an absolute and unconditional will respecting their salvation, and which infallibly secures it: nor is it such a will as is distinguishable into antecedent and consequent; with the former of which it is said, God wills the salvation of all men, as they are his creatures, and the work of his hands; and with the latter he wills, or not wills it, according to their future conduct and behaviour; but the will of God concerning man's salvation is entirely one, invariable, unalterable, and unchangeable: nor is it merely his will of approbation or complacency, which expresses only what would be grateful and well pleasing, should it be, and which is not always fulfilled; but it is his ordaining, purposing, and determining will, which is never resisted, so as to be frustrated, but is always accomplished: the will of God, the sovereign and unfrustrable will of God, has the governing sway and influence in the salvation of men; it rises from it, and is according to it; and all who are saved God wills they should be saved; nor are any saved, but whom he wills they should be saved: HENCE BY ALL MEN, WHOM GOD WOULD HAVE SAVED, CANNOT BE MEANT EVERY INDIVIDUAL OF MANKIND, since it is not his will that all men, in this large sense, should be saved, unless there are two contrary wills in God; for there are some who were before ordained by him unto condemnation, and are vessels of wrath fitted for destruction; and it is his will concerning some, that they should believe a lie, that they all might be damned; nor is it fact that all are saved, as they would be, if it was his will they should; for who hath resisted his will? but there is a world of ungodly men that will be condemned, and who will go into everlasting punishment: rather therefore ALL SORTS OF MEN, agreeably to the use of the phrase in 1 Timothy 2:1 are here intended, kings and peasants, rich and poor, bond and free, male and female, young and old, greater and lesser sinners; and therefore all are to be prayed for, even ALL SORTS OF MEN, because God will have all men, or ALL SORTS OF MEN, saved..." other obviously

@ryangallmeier6647

3 жыл бұрын

@Steve Luibrand And, of course, the context of 1 Tim. 2:4 is found in verses 1-3. "Kings and those who are in high places/authority" does not refer to "every single individual human being" (as you seem to think the "all men" refers to). Not "all men" are kings; not "all men" are in "high places," or, "places of authority". These are KINDS of men, or, CLASSES of individuals. And this is what Paul means by the "all men": all KINDS of men, or, all CLASSES of men; he does not mean "every single individual human being". That's what Scripture means in 1 Tim. 2:4; and that's why Gill's statements are appropriate. James White may or may not have ever read this section of Gill, I don't know; but my reason for quoting him is so that Reformed Christians (and synergists like yourself) can see that Dr. White isn't just making things up as he goes, but that the same view he holds of 1 Tim. 2:4 is the one held by Reformed Christians for centuries. Hope this helps. *Soli Deo Gloria*

What did the thief on the cross do to get saved? Just ack and boom, He's in Paradise with Jesus. Wow, what do you think about that?

@gabrielkinzel3389

3 жыл бұрын

It means that it was God's grace that saved that sinner, and not His doing.

@leahrachael2396

3 жыл бұрын

@@gabrielkinzel3389 Election.

@a-aron6724

3 жыл бұрын

Is paradise the same thing as heaven? And the Bible mentions first heaven and 3rd heaven. What's the difference?

@sovereigngrace5966

3 жыл бұрын

Two thieves...one believed the other did not. Is this evidence of 'free will' ? Jesus said...unless one is born of the Spirit he CANNOT enter the kingdom of God (John 3:1-8) So either Jesus was lying or the man who believed was born of the Spirit. For Jesus said...TODAY you will be with Me in Paradise ( Luke 23:43). Question: According to Scripture...which comes first...faith or being born of the Spirit? (1 Cor 12:3) ...and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. All the actions below are accomplished by God (and we know God is Spirit). -Drawn by the Spirit (John 6:44) -Quickened and made alive by the Spirit (John 6:63), (Eph 2:1), (Eph 2:5) -Sealed by the Spirit (Eph 1:13 KJV) Sealed has to do with the believers eternal security...which is also brought out in Eph 4:30...whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

@a-aron6724

3 жыл бұрын

@@sovereigngrace5966 faith comes before being reborn. How could you be reborn into something you don't have faith in

It does not say between God and “all men” it says “and one Mediator between God and men”. He makes a clear distinction in that verse because he was specifically talking about “all men” when he said as much, and he used the term “men” generally talking about those who he mediates for. Saved men. And in the beginning there’s literally nothing to say that he wasn’t talking about all men. Just because he gave one such category of those in authority doesn’t mean he was speaking categorically. It could mean he was emphasizing a certain group present within “all men”. It doesn’t interrupt the flow at all. Your condescending tone never ceases to amaze me, and only serves to strengthen and embolden those who believe as you.

They try so hard

You lost me at 22min... The Holy Spirit is capable of writing it how you reimagined the text if He wanted to. It says what it says.

In order for full Calvinism to make sense, a person needs to be a Biblical scholar. Most of us aren’t Biblical scholars and don’t speak Greek and Hebrew. I’m also not Armenian, but believe there’s some accuracies in both views. Like most theological topics, I believe the truth lies somewhere between the two doctrines. God can be sovereign and still give man some free will. However, the Bible is pretty clear that Christ is our mediator forever once we are saved - so security is eternal. But God creating humans specifically to send them to hell for eternity seems highly unlikely.

@winburna852

3 жыл бұрын

Don't you mean Arminian in the beginning of your second paragraph? :)

@sharasman

3 жыл бұрын

Winburna yes, grammar police, I did.

@jasont5300

3 жыл бұрын

@@sharasman than why are people gonna go to hell? Are you a universalist? You would have to come to that conclusion with your logic. Calvinist don’t think we don’t have free will - we do have free will. That is free will to put a certain pair of pants on, dress how we want, eat what we want etc etc. but our will is towards sin. Fallen man will chose sin every time because of original sin from the fall. Our will is in bondage to sin. We are spiritually DEAD. Only through regeneration are our will set free and our spirit made alive, and that is only done by God the Holy Spirit. That’s not saying after regeneration that we don’t sin either, but during a life long sanctification process until we’re glorified, we continually confess and repent of our sins and we mourn over it. Some one who is not born of the spirit does not do those things. They still live in a continual lifestyle of sin unrepentant of it.

@sharasman

3 жыл бұрын

@@jasont5300 I am not a Universalist. I don’t think everyone chooses to follow Christ and those who don’t will spend eternity apart from God. Some may ignore the conviction of the Holy Spirit and choose not to follow him. That’s where the free will part comes in. I ignored it many times before finally making the decision to give my life to Christ. Also, lost people don’t choose sin every time. I know many unsaved people who still have good morals and a conscience that tells them right from wrong. They just don’t have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. By your logic, I guess all of those people are born-again believers and will go to heaven? If not, they wouldn’t know right from wrong. Please explain because I sincerely want to know. I’m very interested in this topic. Also, can you answer my question: does God purposely create people knowing they will spend eternity in hell?

@jasont5300

3 жыл бұрын

@@sharasman that’s where you’re mistaken. You can only resist the Holy Spirit until He has had enough and overcomes your resistance. It’s on His time, not yours. He’s God, you are not. His will is mightier than yours. I wonder if Abimelech’s will and desires were violated by God. “Did he not himself say to me, ‘She is my sister’? And she herself said, ‘He is my brother.’ In the integrity of my heart and the innocence of my hands I have done this.” Then God said to him in the dream, “Yes, I know that you have done this in the integrity of your heart, and it was I who kept you from sinning against me. Therefore I did not let you touch her.” ‭‭Genesis‬ ‭20:5-6‬ ‭ESV‬‬

Does all mean all? If not, maybe some don't mean some.

@gabrielkinzel3389

3 жыл бұрын

it ALL depends on context, but SOME people like to forget the context, even though ALL the WORLD would see that's a problem of analysis. May EVERYONE have a nice day.

@billyr9162

3 жыл бұрын

:If all doesn't mean all then maybe some doesn't mean some." A perfect example of human reason at work.🤦‍♂️

@gabrielkinzel3389

3 жыл бұрын

LOL

@a-aron6724

3 жыл бұрын

Well we've managed to convolute the idea of gender and sex in our day so it stand to reason we can change the meaning of basic words right

@gabrielkinzel3389

3 жыл бұрын

Words can mean different things depending on context.. and universalism definitely isn’t an option

THIS IS YOUR REALITY OF REFORMED CALVINISM SHAME ON YOU ! “We call predestination God’s eternal decree, by which he compacted with himself what he willed to become of each man. For all are not created in equal condition; rather, eternal life is fore-ordained for some, eternal damnation for others.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 21, Paragraph 5) “…we say that God once established by his eternal and unchangeable plan those whom he long before determined once for all to receive into salvation, and those whom, on the other hand, he would devote to destruction…he has barred the door of life to those whom he has given over to damnation.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 21, Paragraph 7) God arranges all things by his sovereign counsel, in such a way that individuals are born, who are doomed from the womb to certain death and are to glorify him by their destruction.( John Calvin Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 6 John Piper: "God . . . brings about all things in accordance with his will. In other words, it isn’t just that God manages to turn the evil aspects of our world to good for those who love him; it is rather that he himself brings about these evil aspects for his glory (see Ex. @-16; John 9:3) and his people’s good (see Heb. 12:3-11; James 1:2-4). This includes-as incredible and as unacceptable as it may currently seem-God’s having even brought about the Nazis’ brutality at Birkenau and Auschwitz as well as the terrible killings of Dennis Rader and even the sexual abuse of a young child . . . Quote from Luthers own writings: “Burn their synagogues. Forbid them all that I have mentioned above. Force them to work and treat them with every kind of severity, as Moses did in the desert and slew three thousand… If that is no use, we must drive them away like mad dogs, in order that we may not be partakers of their abominable blasphemy and of all their vices, and in order that we may not deserve the anger of God and be damned with them. I have done my duty. Let everyone see how he does his. I am excused.” (About the Jews and Their Lies,’ quoted by O’Hare, in ‘The Facts About Luther, TAN Books, 1987, p. 290.) “ If I had to baptize a Jew, I would take him to the bridge of the Elbe, hang a stone round his neck and push him over with the words I baptize thee in the name of Abraham” (Grisar, “Luther”, Vol. V. pg. 413.) “The Jews deserve to be hanged on gallows seven times higher than ordinary thieves.”(Weimar, Vol. 53, Pg. 502.) Luther was a Calvinist before Calvin. Luther teaches: “…with regard to God, and in all that bears on salvation or damnation, (man) has no ‘free-will’, but is a captive, prisoner and bond slave, either to the will of God, or to the will of Satan.” (From the essay, ‘Bondage of the Will,’ ‘Martin Luther: Selections From His Writings, ed. by Dillenberger, Anchor Books, 1962 p. 190.) “…we do everything of necessity and nothing by ‘free-will’; for the power of ‘free-will’ is nil…” (Ibid., p. 188.) “Man is like a horse. Does God leap into the saddle? The horse is obedient and accommodates itself to every movement of the rider and goes whither he wills it. Does God throw down the reins? Then Satan leaps upon the back of the animal, which bends, goes and submits to the spurs and caprices of its new rider… Therefore, necessity, not free will, is the controlling principle of our conduct. God is the author of what is evil as well as of what is good, and, as He bestows happiness on those who merit it not, so also does He damn others who deserve not their fate.” (‘De Servo Arbitrio’, 7, 113 seq., quoted by O’Hare, in ‘The Facts About Luther, TAN Books, 1987, pp. 266-267.) “His (Judas) will was the work of God; God by His almighty power moved his will as He does all that is in this world.” (De servo Arbitrio, against man’s free will.) LET THE READER DECIDE WHAT IS TRUTH The above is the unvarnished truth of what the Cult of Calvinism stands for! Gods Word says to the false teachers of Calvinism and all other false religions: Matthew 23: 15-16 15Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You traverse land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are. 16Woe to you, blind guides! “If anyone causes one of these little ones-those who believe in me-to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. 7Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come! Matthew 18 6-7 Your Calvinist arguments have made you an enemy to the grace of God to His created human beings. You unknowingly have become an agent of Satan's kingdom. Wake up and give your head a shake. You are guilty by association with these Calvinist ant-gospel players. TRUTH IN LOVE

I guess in God’s Sovereignty he choose to enlighten some of His children and leave about 75% of them confused. Oh, God is not the author of confusion! I believe Paul and the other Apostles were commissioned to spread the Gospel of Calvin and Other Men. Oh, wait a minute they were commissioned to Preach the Gospel of Christ to All nations! I’ll stick with that and continue to let those I come in contact with know that Christ loves them and died for them. A child doesn’t have to know Greek to understand that. Brother, all the time spent disputing and that I’m more enlightened and studied than you as done more harm to the work of Christ than any other topic I can think of! The fields are ripe to harvest, where are the workers? Oh over at that college or this church seeing who knows that they were predestined and those that are just not studied enough to know?! What a shame.....

@sovereigngrace5966

3 жыл бұрын

You: 'The fields are ripe to harvest' Jesus clarifies: But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.

@janpiet1530

3 жыл бұрын

Hi Brad, unfortunately you made a bad representation of what we actually believe. I would lovingly encourage you to take time and try to understand what we believe, it takes time because it is a big subject, it is not easy at times, but it is worthwhile.

@bradstrawn9708

3 жыл бұрын

jan piet I’ve been around it for over 50yrs and attended a college that taught It. Done my research long ago. Thanks though....

@bradstrawn9708

3 жыл бұрын

jan piet you imply that what you believe is worth considering but do not extend that same thought to others. Most not all High Calvinist consider themselves better and more learned than others! Which is definitely not so! Plus they narrow the views to two man made theories, Calvin and Arminian, which is a joke too! If you can not tell your children that Christ loves them and died for them, that again is a shame! Not ALL ( and all means All) think this way, but the majority does.

@bradstrawn9708

3 жыл бұрын

Sovereign Grace are you a wise worker that wins souls?

Setting up a dichotomy that isn't demanded by scripture is not needed. Western perspective sometimes sets up dichotomies that are not there. The Bible makes points that don't always fit systematic theologies. I just accept the Bible as it is written and leave the interpretations to the Holy Spirit and trust that God is in control of eternity. IF those who promote a particular systematic theology do not have peace in their hearts, God will smooth it all out in eternity.

@IsraeliteDefense

Жыл бұрын

Wait so the holy spirit comes and gives you interpretations personally?

Its so sad, your misrepresentation of the Father. In the Omnipresent God, all creation and humanity lives, move and have their beings. God is a Father to humanity, not a judge. Jesus came to reveal the FATHER, not a judge. Yes, God judges. He judges sins, not sinners. He judges sins because its destroying His children. The Justice of God is NEVER punitive ; but RESTORATIVE. This, and only this is Divine Justice. The RESTORATIVE JUSTICE of God is ; that God was "IN" Christ reconciling the world to HIMSELF !!! This is the Divine EMBRACE in which humanity lives. The Divine Relationship Love of the Trinity towards humanity, doesn't have an expiry date on it. It is and Eternal Relationship. No one is "coerce" or "threatened" by this Divine Unconditional Agape Love. The door is always opened ; for the prodigal sons and daughters when they come to their senses. If Scriptures are not interpreted through the (lens of God's Unconditional Love) for humanity; then they are a misrepresentation of His Nature (LOVE) LOVE KEEPS NO RECORDS OF WRONGS. (1 Corinthians 13) In the lamb of God ,LOVE took away the sins of the world, not just the Christians !! Hell is not an actual physical separation from an Omnipresent God ; but a misguided perception of being separated from His Love, in our confused minds. The Greek word "Metanoia", used for the English word "repentance" actually means changing one's mind. Jesus came to change our minds about the Father and about ourselves; who are created in His image and likeness. Scriptures tells us that it is the KINDNESS OF GOD THAT LEADS US TO "METANOIA " (A CHANGE OF MIND) Now, this is Eternal Life : that they may know you, the only True God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent (John 17:3) Jesus gave us the parable of the prodigal son. In it He revealed the heart of the Father toward humanity. The prodigal son was lost; but he NEVER ceased to be a son !!! "THIS SON of MINE was lost; but now he is found!! The older son was as lost as the younger one; because he didn't know that in the Father's Unconditional Love everything belongs to him!! I would called that the parable of the non religious and religious people. In order to be lost you have to belongs to someone. "Lost" humanity, created in the image and likeness of God have ALWAYS BELONGS TO GOD AND ALWAYS WILL. NOW THAT'S WHAT I CALL GOOD NEWS !!! (GOSPEL)

Yes James, Jesus mediates on behalf of all men, and yet not all men are saved. Your lack of wisdom and knowledge is the problem, not Christians. We pray for all men so that all men might be saved. We pray for kings and those in authority so that they will leave us alone.

James White's argument does not work. Just because Paul says to pray for kings, that does not mean "all men" means "all kinds of men." "All men" would include kings, so mentioning kings would not be enough to justify changing the definition of "all men" to "all kinds of men." This is just an attempt to shoehorn Calvinism into the bible.

@TheCASSMAN777

3 жыл бұрын

@@richardamantite678 John 6:44,65 just says that people can't believe unless they are given grace. Romans 9 just talks about God's choice in election

@trentbelew4801

2 жыл бұрын

@@dannymcmullan9375 what are you talking about? You are conflating praying for “all men” generally and “all men” individually. You can pray for all men generally. When the text says all men it means without distinction. Your logic could be flipped around on you to say that “do you really think the text wants you to pray for every single kind or type of man that exists or ever has existed”. It’s a ludicrous argument and not one that anyone’s is making. If paul meant all kinds or types of men that would have been in the text. He had a pretty firm grasp on vocabulary.

@trentbelew4801

2 жыл бұрын

@@dannymcmullan9375 brother you’re saying that as if you aren’t interpreting or reading meaning into the words. Paul does have that right and you’re not Paul.

@robertknight3354

11 ай бұрын

CASSMAN Your rebuttal doesn't even make sense to me. Just at face value. Going deeper you seem to ignore all of the context he provided as well. It seems more like you are trying to "Shoehorn" calvinism out of the Bible. Btw you guys give yourself away every time when you default the term "calvinism" into every biblical study or doctrinal discussion. Each conversation has its own context and subject specifically and no reformed person would say "let's talk about calvinism!" And then proceed to discuss a singular specific topic. You sound ignorant. This is specifically something Dr. White brings up in the clip here as well. You people don't have a developed understanding of anything reformed. It's utter laziness and you should attempt to get a grasp on these issues before you assert some sort of claims against these things. I'm serious. I'm not trying to attack you. I'm trying to influence you to at least bring a better case against these things.

@LaMOi1

9 ай бұрын

Have you ever read John Calvin… ? What I love about people that throw out “Calvinism” is that hardly any of them have ever read what John Calvin actually wrote. John Calvin’s Bible commentary, is probably some of the best I’ve ever read. The man clearly had such a wealth and depth of insight into the word of God. I find it enormously helpful. People reject the reformed position on election, usually I find based on an emotional response. Because the simplistic view is that God just arbitrarily and rather coldly, randomly chooses whomsoever he’s gonna save, and predestines others to hell. Now certainly that’s one way to interpret election. But a rather surface understanding. I think another component to consider is that God exists outside of time. And unfortunately, most of our understanding is framed through the lens of time. It’s why people ask, rather foolish questions like “who created God then”. I think we just have to rest, in the fact that God is good. And God is sovereign. And God knows what he’s doing. And be resigned to accepting that we might not fully understand the ways of God, this side of eternity.

In the bible the king represents God to the people and the people to God. Jesus is the King of kings. In light of those two facts...read the verses in 1 Timothy again.

'all' means every soul, every creature, every man, every one still breathing, that is, 'all nations of men dwelling on all the face of the earth', and John Calvin calls this 'all mankind' (Acts 17:26). Apostle Paul exhorts Timothy, and us too, to pray 'for all men' in the context of verses 1-6. This guy in the video is not a 'Calvinist' but rather an 'Owenist'... and doesn't know the difference!

Being consistent doesn't make you right Mr. White. This goes to show that knowing how to read Greek doesn't mean you know the Greek language. Now why on Earth would Paul say that the 1st thing you gotta do after having a problem with false preachers In his church is to pray for Nero? You would think a great scholar like doctor white would have thought about that. If he had read books on metaphors of The Bible or read the encyclopedia's he he would know that king is a metaphor. And given the context of the whole 1st page of the letter Paul isn't going to turn around and all the sudden say the 1st thing we got to do is pray for Nero. It's dumb. So no it's not all kinds of people. It's all the people in the church. The people Paul cares about. The people hes having a problem with. The people he wants to be saved and come to the knowledge of truth. The people that are the martyrs at the right time.

Did Jesus died for all people or just you guys. What sin is not under His blood. All knees bow and all tounges confess, I bet you money He saves them all: all, all, all.

@jgeph2.4

3 жыл бұрын

It’s a nice thought but contradicts the clear teaching of eternal , conscience torment And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. - Revelation 20:10 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. - Revelation 20:12-15

@billyr9162

3 жыл бұрын

Lol!! You might be the only person on the face of the planet that thinks hitler is in heaven. I will definitely take that bet with you.😛😛😛

@gabrielkinzel3389

3 жыл бұрын

Ah, finally, someone who is consistent with their beliefs of Unlimited Atonement.

@billyr9162

3 жыл бұрын

@@gabrielkinzel3389 Lol!!!!

@davidbalicki3567

3 жыл бұрын

@@jgeph2.4 So, what Jerry must believe, is that, everyone's name will be found written in the book of life

Jesus is the mediator between God and men. Jesus is Son of God Incarnate. He represents all mankind as THE human. The Apostle was absolutely commanding prayer for all people, no just all kinds. The Litany of Peace in the liturgy is for the peace of the whole world. Let all the people praise you! Why does he have to say kings? Because we are called to pray for all people even our enemies and oppressors. Do you understand "πάσῃ εὐσεβείᾳ' in verse 2 as "all kinds of godliness"? Two things regarding the nations whom God destroyed. First, God blessed Abraham to be a blessing among the nations. Israel was a light to nations, and THE ISRAEL Jesus Christ is. Second, God arranged the nations throughout history that they might seek Him and find Him (Acts 17:26--27). Regarding God desiring all men to be saved, the very next verses describe the Incarnational basis of our salvation in Jesus Christ. As the theanthropos, Jesus Christ represents mankind to the Father. Salvation is found in Christ Jesus. The idea that non-Calvinists are saying that Jesus' mediation is not enough, God can fail, or the idea of universal salvation is false conclusion.

If I said, we should support just court decisions for all men, for the rich as well as the poor and middle class (in that case, I'm referring to all kinds of men), for all men are equal in the eyes of the law, does that mean that merely all kinds of men are equal for the law? Of course not. But I used the same phrase in both clauses, right? White wants you to believe it's just a matter of knowing Greek. That's nonsense. There are plenty of non-reformed people who know Biblical Greek who understand this verse as it's been understood by the majority throughout history. It might even be a majority today. While this isn't a slam dunk verse for the advocate of God's universal salvific will, I agree, it's certainly very plausible that the phrase is referring to his universal salvific will. That's why Paul is advocating the prayer for apparently all kinds of men. Because God desires all men to be saved! And yes, Paul absolutely knew the Hebrew Bible, and he certainly knew that God constantly petitioned non-elect people to repent.

@a-aron6724

3 жыл бұрын

Amennnn

@hondobondo

3 жыл бұрын

white: relies only on scripture. explains it arminian: false because analogy!

@a-aron6724

3 жыл бұрын

@@hondobondo no one accused him not trying or being disingenuous but we did accuse him of being wrong

@hondobondo

3 жыл бұрын

@@a-aron6724 that's not what i mean. David R tries to refute the point based on some analogy. it proves nothing. its not even intelligible. what is "equal for the law"? what does that mean? you can't apply legal issues to scriptural issues. they're not even close. we know that the law treats all men equally. it's in the constitution. it's explicitly declared in the writings of the founding fathers. none of that has anything to do with theology. this argument is either completely ignorant or dishonest. this is why analogies do not prove anything.

@davidr1620

3 жыл бұрын

@@hondobondo Other than simply pointing that the first clause may be referring to all kinds of men, how does White demonstrate that the second clause isn't about all men? My analogy shows that you can use the same phrase in two clauses and indeed be referring to all in the absolute sense, as most people see it?

Trinitarian atonement. There is no such thing. Moses tells us that God is one and trinitarians don't believe him. Dt 6:4. Jesus tells us that God is one and trinitarians don't believe him. Mark 12:28-29. Paul tells us that God is one and trinitarians don't believe him. 1Cor 8:6, 1 Tim 2:5. Jesus tells Mary they have the same God and Father. John 20:17. There is no trinity in the Bible.

This HAS TO BE the worst attempt at explaining this..he uses NOTHING in the verses and then claims its not what it says but how the REFORMED church looked at it..he is literally reading his view into the verse,the same thing he accuses everyone who does it. Poorest James White explanation ive seen and hes usually pretty on point.

Not an anti-calvinist, by any means, but I've heard many teachings of Dr. White and others and for whatever reason they like to present every interpretation they have as "clear" exegesis of Scripture. It's not clear. Not by a long shot. They do this in every subject and debate... they need to present the "options" of translation and why they gravitate toward one over another. All we hear is that it's clear and all other interpretations and translations are against evidence of Scripture.

@sovereigngrace5966

3 жыл бұрын

"I" said yes to Jesus as a result of my 'good judgement' "I" chose to be born again "I" chose to let God out of His bottle so He could grant requests and save me. "I" am not as evil as those who will be thrown into hell...because of something inherently good in me...which God didn't first place there. "I" believe in a man-centered gospel...because giving God the glory for my faith (predestination, election, and God's choice) is repulsive and unfair in my eyes. "I" believe God loves everyone...even though His Word says otherwise. But i don't care...i'm going to make up my own god...one that views fairness like like "I" do.

@swentworth

3 жыл бұрын

@@sovereigngrace5966 This is a mostly philosophically based doctrine rather than purely biblical and is straw men throughout. It is this kind of argument that divides Christians and cuts off fair and respectful debate. Rather than defend myself, however, I will direct your attention to Dr. Michael Brown, who presents a very biblically based argument against Calvanism. The idea of you applying these statements to him is troubling. I hope your followers would condemn your post and that you remove it.

James White a so called scholar reminds me of the Jehovah Witnesses, where he makes ALL mean " all other" WORLD means a "small group" etc. This is what Jehovah witnesses do in Coll ie he created ALL OTHER things. This is the ADDING and DELETION that scripture forbids. Wake up Calvinists, start reading the bible for a change!

He loves his delusional god and delusional theology.Read a book by David Madison ,Bart Ehrman,or Robert ,M Price or Data over Dogma podcast.