WCW numbers were garbage BEFORE Russo joined. Determined by comparing year-to-year-- By Oct. 99 when Russo joined, WCW was already flashing red. Fact 1: Nitro rating 10/12/98 was a 4.7. The Nitro rating of 10/11/99 was a 2.6. THEN Russo starts. After the ship had sunk. Fact 2: The pay-per-view buyrate for Fall Brawl 98 was a .70. The pay-per-view buy rate for Fall Brawl 99 was a .30. THEN Russo starts. Fact 3: The average house show attendance. In 9/98 it was 8,086. In 9/99 it was 3,155. And THEN Russo joined. AFTER attendence was down from 8k to 3k from year before. The numbers had already dropped by over HALF. Company was in a nose dive. Who was in charge when that happened? And why is Russo blamed when he actually brought numbers UP during his tenure? Meltzer and early 2000 online wrestling influencers were mouthpieces, apologists, and cheerleaders for WCW just as Meltzer is today for AEW. The mentality of "if it's online, it's gotta be true" was more prevalent back in the 90s and 2000s. So fans and those within the industry really believed the anti-Russo propaganda being pushed back then, that is still being peddled today. But we're finally seeing the truth more clearly.

@nathanpritchard5114

12 күн бұрын

Everyone knows this. Russo was brought in to fix it. He failed for the same reasons Bichoff failed for. Nonsensical storylines. Pushing the same guys over and over. And showdy booking. Russo agrees with Stevie here about "Eric inserting himself into the NWO" but will turn around and defend himself for booking himself into storylines. When people say "WCW went out of business for X reason" they aren't saying it literally. What they mean is those dumb decisions pushed fans away. So WCW stopped making money hand over fist. That led TW to cut it. Russo pretending to not understand the difference is the most disingenuous thing ive heard in a long time. Hes such a clown.

@nathanpritchard5114

12 күн бұрын

Bringing numbers up slightly wasn't enough. They needed to become profitable again and he couldn't do it. He doesn't deserve all the blame. Nor does he get to skate by. He had a hand in its failure. At least he admits that much. Yet people like you will try and convince him hes wrong.

@user-mr9is6kd8s

12 күн бұрын

Russo didn't help the booking was good awful crash tv only goes down eventually and that's what happened.

@burntvirtue

12 күн бұрын

Yeah... that's WHY Russo was hired. To turn that around. It didn't work.

@DWtechfan

11 күн бұрын

The idea that Vince Russo killed WCW is a fallacy. If we consider Eric Bischoff as the pilot of plane WCW and Hogan as the co-pilot calling the shots, then Russo was merely the guy who flew on autopilot. The truth is Bischoff likes to blame everyone and everything else but his podcast is nothing but a used car salesman doing revisionist history. Bischoff is a smart man, don’t get me wrong. Eric let Hulk have free rein to do whatever he wanted because he was the golden red and yellow goose. When that goose stopped being successful, he politicked and held everyone down to keep his “spot”. Hogan did this everywhere he went. AWA, WWF, and WCW. Hogan was a draw but he came with an ego way bigger than his value. Hogan might be the cancer that killed WCW long before Russo tried administering a form of treatment. The truth is nothing was going to save WCW after 1998 and no one was going to be the lone savior of WCW. It was too many years of neglect and bad decisions to reverse it all.

I find it surreal that people insist on the "this single individual/storyline/moment killed WCW" narrative when WWE has had the steroid scandal, a wrestler falling to his death in front of 16K+ people (and the company deciding to resume the show), the Katie Vick storyline (arguably far worse than anything you can blame on Russo), a former world champion making the news worldwide for murdering his family, a 10-year-old boy winning a title at WrestleMania, and their former boss shrouded in a sexual abuse scandal. Yes, they all hit the company to varying degress but they are still up and running. It takes more than a creative or a wrestler to kill an entire promotion. It was a concatenation of bad decisions, mostly from the corporate side, that damaged the company. You'd think many people would understand this given how a vast number of Americans work at these monstrous companies (I do work at a large company and find this extremely evident) but if at this point you still blame this on an individual or moment, there is little to be done for you.

@russellcampbell3500

12 күн бұрын

I agree with everything. The only thing with WWE though is Vince owned his company and could go to any station that wanted him. WCW was owned by a company and was on its own channel and could not just go to another station because of who its owner was.

Stevie is right. There probably were tons of funds being used to pay dumb lawsuits, paying wrestlers that they never used, hiring unnecessary employees who were friends or family.

Time Warner destroyed WCW If you don't have the support from the company that owned WCW It didn't matter what was happening in the ring or locker room

@burntvirtue

11 күн бұрын

Notice that they only started doing so AFTER all the momentum, and money started drying up.

I think he's basically saying Hogan and Nash are the ones for the downfall of WCW

@PhoenixRising82672

12 күн бұрын

They were the reason WCW was as successful as it was He's just bitter

@burntvirtue

12 күн бұрын

​​@@PhoenixRising82672Nah. Hogan was given creative control. That's a MASSIVE contributing factor right there. It allowed him to call shots and make decisions that put his interests over what was best for the company. Changing the finish of Starrcade 97 after over a year of build, Bret Hart being nothing more than an nWo cronie, dropping the belt to Goldberg on normal TV instead of PPV, the Fingerpoke Of Doom, etc. Nash being given booking power while he was a featured talent was another HUGE detriment. He buried Goldberg's big initial run just to give the belt right back to Mr. Creative Control, and openly had no motivation to put the company first because his pay didn't change either way. Between him and Hogan being given so much power, the nWo hung on for way too long, and kept the next group of talent from moving up until it was too late (DDP, Booker T, Steiner, Jericho, Benoit, Eddie, etc.)

@osu3167

11 күн бұрын

​@@burntvirtue I would agree if the company didn't collapse after Hogan left.. one thing executives and guys in suits like is big names. Wcw might of been given a chance if they still had a big name like Hogan that they could talk about in meetings. Look at spike tv.. the people in the office didn't they pay for Hogan's contract or something?

Stevie is on point ❤

WCW made the network money not reruns of sitcoms

@nathanpritchard5114

12 күн бұрын

Until it no longer did because......Russo's writing was to over sexualized. Fans stopped going to shows with jeff jarrett as champion. Making Goldust into a creepy pedophile wasn't a good idea. People who find themselves simp'n for Vince Russo in 2024 are a joke. He had his moments. He had some positives. Hes probably a great guy in real life. WCW 98 was 100xs better than WCW 2000 and 10xs better than WcW 99. The only good angle Russo did in WCW was the New Blood and even then they had it revered. The old "millionaires" where the good guys? Lolz..

Bischoff & Hogan are the ones who ran off WCW's audience to WWF. Before Russo had even quit WWF at that point. Bischoff & Hogan's version of 'BATB' doesn't even make sense. They are carnies.

@dustin6528

11 күн бұрын

Not really. It’s not that WCW’s ratings tanked but WWF’s skyrocketed into a different stratosphere. People who didn’t like “rasslin” watched WWF at the time but gradually stopped in the early 00’s when everything died down. PPV numbers DID tank for WCW in ‘99. I believe that’s because Nitro often had better cards or the same cards. People caught on and stopped paying for what they could watch for free.

The downfall were all those FRUIT BOOTY'S

6:16 "What about your jumpoff?" LMFAOOO

Always been a defender of Vince - especially over chronic liars like Corney/Meltzer. But Vince agreeing that Bischoff shouldn’t have booked himself into the story…. Uh…. As opposed to McMahon? As opposed to the Vince carrying around a baseball bat? Eric was a good character…. Vince should definitely have not been on camera.

@robkearsy2995

11 күн бұрын

Yeah I just got done listening to marks Monty & Pharaoh repeat the same mark bullshit.

@josephroseo8063

11 күн бұрын

Chronic liars what are you high smh

this conversation gets me hyped up

Its pretty clear Bischoff killed WCW. The guy didnt have a clue about wrestling and admits as much. He winged it well for a couple of years so I'll give him credit for that.

@markfroman738

12 күн бұрын

Caught lightning in a bottle.

@burntvirtue

11 күн бұрын

Yep. Bischoff was both the best AND worst thing to ever happen to WCW.

@ElAssoWipe-o

11 күн бұрын

He also ruined TNA. Crazy how no one talks about that.

Stevie Ray: 1/2 of the best tag team of all time.

HH was badass. I enjoyed watching them.

Vince Russo is always wrongly attributed to being the single factor that killed WCW. There were many things combined that killed WCW. The AOL/Time Warner merger was the final blow and death nail for WCW. But Stevie & Russo are completely right here too, unwise spending gave the AOL and Turner execs the ammo they needed to get rid of pro wrestling on their networks. That aspect of WCW’s demise always gets overlooked but irresponsible spending was a huge factor. Just like paying talents who never performed was a huge problem too. Then, Hulk Hogan and his creative control along with others calling their own shots was a major mistake. Hogan only cared about himself and if that’s your top guy, your company is screwed. Bischoff enabling Hogan and others like him while never pushing new talents or creating new stars might be as big a factor in WCW going under as any of the above reasons. The NWO was a revolutionary concept but Bischoff didn’t know how to maintain it and keep it going so WCW kept it going long past when they should’ve pulled the plug. Russo made many mistakes in WCW and some of his shows were unwatchable crap. The one thing he did get right was trying to push new stars and focus on them instead of old guys who were way past their primes, brother.

@burntvirtue

11 күн бұрын

Absolutely spot-on

Vince Russo did his best to save WCW it was just too late

@derlangesonny6422

12 күн бұрын

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

@dariuscurry7396

12 күн бұрын

I'm surprised he was able to keep his sanity with all that chaos. My hat goes off to Russo.

@nathanpritchard5114

12 күн бұрын

He did. Then he inserted himself into storylines and WCW had no hope anymore. Shoving Jeff Jarrett into the main event scene was more damaging than the Arquette decision. If they had built him up a little longer maybe it could have worked. Russo drove advertisers away. The ratings may have gotten a little better (1st 3 months) but when your product is literally making ad execs not want to associate with WCW thats a you (Russo) problem. If money isn't coming in thats a problem. Russo deserves that blame. He didnt kill WCW but he certainly failed at helping it.

@alexandru5369

12 күн бұрын

Agree he just tried too do way too much. By July 1999 even the most casual fan could tell things were a mess I mean Savage being doused with poop in a limo um what?

@terranceburrs5832

12 күн бұрын

​@@alexandru5369Russo wasn't in WCW in July 1999. He didn't get there until October of that year.

Great show Vince Russo And Stevie Ray...Jim Cornette might hate you to a passion....but i have always been a big fan of yours...and you speak your mind....i watch all your podcast

Pretending Eric didnt bring up WCW from the gutter to something that defined culture is laughable

@burntvirtue

11 күн бұрын

Eric was both the best and worst thing to happen to WCW

@Luciphers_Workshop

11 күн бұрын

@@burntvirtue worst??? Did you not watch wcw before he got there??

@frankstudent

4 күн бұрын

@@burntvirtueI would agree with that statement.

Always was a big fan of Stevie

4:57 that sounds like some old school refinery worker mentality right there

facts Stevie!

I don't see how they viewed wrestling was embarrassing i tuned into TNT TBS because of WCW the sitcoms were garbage

@nathanpritchard5114

12 күн бұрын

Wrestling wasn't really respected back then by the mainstream media. Even when the WWE got Lawrence Taylor for a Mania main event it was looked at as a joke and people questioned it. Once the ratings war really kicked in and the numbers were getting higher and higher they had no choice. TV Guide started putting wrestlers on their covers, Rocky got a pretty bigtime albeit small movie roll. And it slowly became acceptable. Then Benoit nearly killed (no pun) all that goodwill over night. Only in the last few years has it fully recovered. Wrestling is just a weird form of entertainment. Its held at a completely different standard than books, movies, tv, music or any other form. It always will be held to a higher standard but will not have the respect that should come with it.

Eric B. Let his talent especially Hogan and Nash influence him in and out of the ring so much and that had a great deal to do with the poisoning of that company.

@PhoenixRising82672

12 күн бұрын

Hogan earned that right

@burntvirtue

11 күн бұрын

​@@PhoenixRising82672No he didn't. You NEVER give your talent final say over booking decisions no matter who, or how big they are.

@paul2k2b21

2 күн бұрын

Hogan had creative control for his character in his contract I think? Hence he did have control over what he was involved in

@PhoenixRising82672

2 күн бұрын

@@burntvirtue Hogan isn't just anyone

To be fair. As much hate as russo gets, he will always have one of the best most shocking promos on a wrestling show ever. The time he destroyed hogan and went nuts in the ring.

💯

Russo at least knew to put the belt on Bret but if he would have been there when Bret first came in after the screw job there is a good chance WCW may have been around longer but instead Eric let Hogan and Nash push there creative control and negative influence on the talent moves which was so flawed and shows that the wrong people were running the company. The talent has way too much control bottom line. Eric had no real back bone to take real control

@josecarlosramolete6109

12 күн бұрын

thank you for confirming: Hogan was NEVER the only wrestler who was given creative control. Nash ALSO had the creative control as well (that's why he ended Goldberg's "streak" which upset so many WCW fans!)

@analiysanchez9949

12 күн бұрын

@@josecarlosramolete6109Nash was booker when he ended Goldbergs streak right? I don’t think he had creative control of his character written into his contract like hogan did

@PhoenixRising82672

12 күн бұрын

Stop with the Bret Hart BS Bret Hart has no personality

@kevinlee9929

12 күн бұрын

Russo definitely would have capitalized off of the Montreal Screwjob if he was in WCW when Bret came.

@kevinlee9929

12 күн бұрын

​@@josecarlosramolete6109 That was Bischoff's call to end Goldberg's streak. He's admitted it himself

Can't believe it went downhill as quick as it did. Had so many good wrestlers. How they fumbled bret harts debut is beyond me, he's debut could have been so epic it would have been unreal. The whole sting angle aswell. They killed the nwo with too many people. Imagine they kept nwo to like 4 people, they should have kept them off show for 6 months then come back

wcw was killed at the executive level. and not executive producer. had they stayed white hot somehow, it would have merely prolonged the situation. time warner didn't want wrestling. didn't want it. everything else was surface level

@jshudo44

11 күн бұрын

Even if time warner was supporting it, WCW was constantly fucking up when it came to storylines. Nothing ever made sense. You can literally make a list of things that they messed up on, even at the company’s peak.

According to The Honky Tonk man they were paying some guys that didn't even work! I mean the talent would be home sometimes for over a year and still getting checks !

I don't ever remember why but I never understood NWO and then NWO wolfpac I never got that aspect of it

@kevinlee9929

12 күн бұрын

Nash got sick of Hogan and created his own sector of the NWO. Happens in real life with gangs all the time.

I will always say this WCW starting going down hill when they changed the WCW logo n Monday night nitro set

@kevinlee9929

12 күн бұрын

I HATED both of those

@markfroman738

12 күн бұрын

Ugh I hated that new look so much.

@burntvirtue

11 күн бұрын

It started well before that, but those changes are absolutely a visual "line in the sand" that marked a point of no return for the company.

Managers in world football (soccer) decides on players wages.

Time warner and aol became WCW final nail in the coffin

♥️

I totally agree with what Stevie saying about the NWO Eric, never been a part of it. It was much stronger when it was just Hogan Hall Nash and The Giant. also when they brought in trillionaire Ted, I thought that was really cool and they should’ve stuck with that instead of making Eric part of the faction that in my opinion is when things started going south.

Vince Russo killed WCW

@ElAssoWipe-o

11 күн бұрын

Jim Cornette killed Smoking Mountain Wrestling, nearly killed WWF in 96', nearly killed OVW, nearly killed Ring of Honor, and has other men sleep with his wife.

Bob Knight was a general

I thought the Montreal Screwjob was rhetorical biggest dead horse in wrestling. This surpasses it. Enough already.

Vince russo says hes not going to watch it..... mmhmmmm....

Would you like to be an ambassador for Kurt Angle’s supplements?

Aew #1

Figures the show is called Black n White, Stevie is obsessed with race. He got mad that his brother Booker got beat up by a "white man" Stone Cold in a storyline.

"This was a business decision, bro" - EXACTLY. So why did you keep blaming AOL for 20 years for not wanting wrestling when you pretty much confirmed it was because WCW was doing bad business?! I have been saying it myself forever, AOL didn't care about wrestling they cared about money, hence why they canceled WCW. And yet all the WCW marks still keep saying it because AOL didn't like wrestling. Part of the reason is because you Vince but also Bischoff, Nash, Hogan always blamed AOL for not liking wrestling which was not the main reason at all.

@josecarlosramolete6109

12 күн бұрын

AOL Time Warner people were not fans of wrestling. that's why the merger wanted to cancel WCW.

@adamkeller7749

12 күн бұрын

@@josecarlosramolete6109 NO. It was because WCW was losing money for god's sake lmao

Love Stevie but he makes no sense. His hanger ons getting a pay check is such a minor point in wcw demise

@analiysanchez9949

12 күн бұрын

He was getting a million a year too at his peak paydays too and his segments with the NWO Hollywood in 98 and 99 were terrible

@kevinlee9929

12 күн бұрын

He actually made a good point. There were guys on WCW roster who barely worked or never worked that was making almost half a million a year.

@burntvirtue

11 күн бұрын

​@@kevinlee9929Lanny Poffo, Ed Leslie, and Erik Watts all got paid despite barely or never being used on TV

didnt vince russo kill wcw? lol

Why is Vince speaking louder and slower at the same time? Does he think it makes his point come across more impactful?

Hmmm.. Eric B. wanted Booker as "GI Bro" Russo near the end, pushed Booker and Steiner over Hogan, in a last ditch effort, to save the company. Russo knew what the audience wanted, McMahon did as well as Hogan's novelty was well worn off. I always listened to Stevie Ray, very common sense and an inquisitive mind to the business.

@adamandanna

12 күн бұрын

Yeah i appreciate he pushed Steiner and Booker t but he also booked some terrible characters and put the belt on himself and was a mark for himself. I too was tired of Hogan too,

Stevie Ray knows what’s up. Free Palestine 🇵🇸

@user-ih8fn1uz6y

12 күн бұрын

I agree free plasticine you slapnut 🤣😅🤣

Stevie Ray is a clown.

@analiysanchez9949

12 күн бұрын

Way to like your own comment

@PhoenixRising82672

12 күн бұрын

Exactly

So basically they all milked Ted until they milked him dry. Hmm reminds Me of somebody doing GREAT in wrestling today.🥸 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

💯