So what your saying is that it's not your way or the highway?

@BlitzDG

4 ай бұрын

That is exactly what I'm saying.

I am 65 years old and learned the backhand 13 year's ago with the standstill and later moved to the one step then moved to the three step run up. With the three step if my timing is not correct my shot’s are not very good. I have also noticed that I can’t throw it really any farther with the three step run up probably because of the additional movements that need perfect timing as you also alluded to. After watching this video I think I will just use the one step only. I can throw it just as far and my timing is not an issue plus I am more accurate. I guess when others say you need the run up, you think thats what you need and should do. This may not actually be the case? Great video and informative that we can contemplate on and use to develop our own best throw based on our own skills etc. Great stuff. Keep it coming. Thanks.

Awesome video. On the Double move and swim move, you are way too late on the off arm punch down. You are still going sequentially: Reach back then punch down. This is what is making it feel like work because doing them sequentially doesnt help, it just adds needless steps that hurts the sequencing. These need to be smushed together. Try to see if you can get the punch down to hit just as the reach back is peaking, or think of it as if you are punching your L arm and all of your body weight from your L shoulder and down into your plant foot. This is happening as your hips fire and adds onto that motion (the punch initiates the drive). Since this is happening just before the reach back peaks with a loose arm, it creates a tendon bounce that effortlessly ejects the disc forward in the V shape path. Seriously if you get that double move down and are able to transfer everything into your brace without spinning it is going to be an abosolutely terrifying video.

@BlitzDG

4 ай бұрын

Next time I experiment with it, I'll keep that in mind. Thanks!

I would rather have a 500ft standstill instead of a 500ft run up less to worry about in standstill! But I would take 500ft in way possible lol

I saw my comment in the video, never meant to be disrespectful, it was in my own head that some things could help you throw even faster, but i was wrong. I dont know how accurate you are on the course with your own style, for me that its not so accurate when throwing the style that you have. But i take my words back and really appreciate that you made this video. Every people have theyre own style to throw and what feels best for them, me also have my own style, even tho there are some "right mechanics" in my throw. Seriously this was a great video, ill keep watching your videos in the future also, and this opened my eyes in many ways.🙂🙌🏻

@BlitzDG

4 ай бұрын

No worries at all brother. Wasn’t directed specifically at you. I certainly have thing to work on, but that’s for the off season when I can figure them out one at a time!

I agree there is no universal teaching that applies to everyone. Same applies to tips. What may apply to student A does not apply to B. Same as Pro styles. Every pro has their own unique style and you can not judge a pro style from a single slow motion throw. The only way to figure this out, I believe, is either to work with a coach for a few weeks / sessions or better use a tools such as video of your throw (to document how you are throwing vs how you think you throw) and tec disc so you can document speed/rotation/nose angle, etc. In your case, if rounding in your reach back increases power then it is right for you (vs wide rail vs how it feels vs accuracy in a field). But again it may or may not apply to others. What I do is a session with tech disc and measure if we get more power with A vs B, then the advice can objectively personalized, which is where I think you are coming from. Off arm sling shot is more a matter of timing, closer to the power pocket than the reach back, but again that is just me.

@BlitzDG

4 ай бұрын

Agree!

Fascinating. Would be interesting to see you do an X step tutorial. Much appreciated!!

@11:40 I'd never even considered arm tension and it explains why my janky beginner form could sniff 450. As I keep widening my rail I feel some of my throws "give up" halfway through. I guess my arm lost tension. Definitely not the nugget of information I expected to take away from this video but glad I did!

Great video!

Holy shit your knee muscles have knee muscles Dude never skips leg day That's for sure You have great advice keep it up man!

One difference in styles that I didn't see you mention is coil sequence. It looks like you coil during the shift back (so does Nick.) Schusterich for example has a linear move back and coils pretty strictly only during the shift forward. And between those two there is probably a continuum, but it l seem to see most standstill throwers at one of those end points, and probably more of them coiling on the shift forward.

Love the idea of this video. I did want to mention I think you find the slingshot method to be the hardest for a good reason. It only works when all the pieces of the puzzle fit together, it feels nothing like my natural throw but I can’t deny the crazy effortless power it can bring you if done right. I’m still working on it but it would be awesome to see more videos like this!

@BlitzDG

4 ай бұрын

I don't doubt it. There are definitely some pieces of it that point to it being the most dependent on tissue elasticity, which could certainly make it the most "effortless".

@karlmagnuson8688

4 ай бұрын

@@BlitzDG that’s a great lens to look at it with. Makes me curious. You and I are on opposite ends of musculature which may be why I like his methodology the most. Do you think an over reliance on elasticity might limit the throws power at some point of progression? Is physical strength the real answer?

@BlitzDG

4 ай бұрын

@@karlmagnuson8688 I dont think physical strength is "the answer", but keeping your tendons and ligaments strong and and building muscle around them to limit the reliance on JUST connective tissue IS the answer. It just so happens that also allows you to add a bit of power from the other side!

Great video, love how you showed it all

This guy doesn't skip leg day.

@seeballgetball937

2 ай бұрын

No sh!t, crazy quads for sure

Very interesting. Is that really what people are teaching. I think i will stay with the old school style . Not so complicated.

Great content! (You will always throw much farther than me. Speaking affirmatively below because it's more efficient, not because I know what I'm talking about.) Might want to review Owen's instructions a bit. You're not dropping your left hip as it comes forward or pushing laterally lower left leg weight into your right brace, which is making your left leg lift off the ground instead of remaining in place to keep the hyzer spinal rotation axis rooted. Might help if you do that practice hammer swinging movement (rocking side to side as if holding a hammer) a few times first in which alternate right then left toes and heels are the initiators of movement. This helps protect the right knee as it seems to "know" what to do after the rocking motion. Off-arm attention is the death of timing if it's added onto an established swing, but a simple experiment demonstrates its power. Do the previously described side to side hammer throwing movement with off-arm at your side, letting it swing passively. Note the rotational speed you can attain with your right arm, given a certain amount of impulse from lifting left heel/lower right heel in rhythm. Now, do the same, but lunge the off-arm down and somewhat forward when it feels right in the rhythmic flow. Notice how incredibly fast your right arm suddenly whips around without any additional energy input. Finally, imagine putting the normal "arming" (elbow smash at the target, in Page Pierce's way of seeing it) force into this same movement added on top of that extra whip from the off-arm input. You appear to be a bouldering and wall dude with the musculature to prove it, but you also said you're old. Reducing energy required for same distance is a fascinating discipline and probably a major driver in Owen's thinking (I'd guess) Effortlessness in machinery and among all kinds of performers and athletes is as close to a sense of perfection as we get. Just the right amount. Nothing wasted. I'm sure Owen at Trebuchet will quibble with my comment. Hope so!

@BlitzDG

4 ай бұрын

We actually met up not long ago and shot the shit throwing the tech disc. Great guy. We both can’t do anything near the others style, and that’s okay 😊

@bretbowman2007

4 ай бұрын

LOL. I relate. Finally tried "briefcase" backhand for the first time yesterday and am converted after 3 hours of field work. Gannon Buhr's advice on keeping the right elbow up to get nose down seems to work.@@BlitzDG

@_TDG

3 ай бұрын

I think thats pretty spot on actually, Bret! Blitz's normal throw is very contrary to the intended goal of my one leg drills, so it would take alot of change for his throw to fit inside the intended scope of that drill. Add to that the fact that I didn't have it all figured out when I shared it the first few goes and of course he ended up doing in it a way that breaks the drill. But that he didn't understand the drill well enough is on me... I haven't explained it clearly enough yet because I was still learning how to apply it to coaching. Me and Blitz disagree on a lot of fundamental type things about the throw, but we also agree on alot, (and I see a ton of applicable body knowledge and cuing skill from him that we all need!). Personally, I feel that we have both decided that being friends is more important than being right. So we agree to disagree a bit and still get along and learn from each other. I am really grateful that he broke this drill in a way that really helped me refine the idea of what I want people to take from the drill. I'm trying to get a video out soon that covers that and should make both the execution and the understanding alot more achievable.

Great video and a really ambitious look at the different styles of the major disc golf instruction approaches out there. You cover a lot of ground in your comparison in a short amount of time. I think it would have been even more useful if you had mentioned the names of each style as you went through them. I have seen some of the different teachers videos but it would be helpful to know exactly which teacher correlates to which style. This would make it easier for us to select a teacher's style that seems to work for us and follow his whole concept. Do you have an email address that you can be contacted through? I have some stretching exercises that would be great for warm up as well as bringing about more flexibility and preventing injury? Thanks.

@BlitzDG

4 ай бұрын

I do, discord is linked I am very active there!

Good stuff! Interesting that you at this point prefer what most coaches would define as rounding. And a big nono. And is making it work to great extent. I've always suspect, as the sport evolves. That style and mechanics will become more and more separated as we figure things out. This works, this doesn't. Yet, here you are, breaking one of the supposed taboos at 70mph. When I started integrating offarm into my swing. My rotation became alot faster. Alas, my throwing arm also needed to go alot faster. From blurry freezeframes it looks like this is something you struggle with in those throws aswell. And seeing as your throw supposedly is very rotationally driven, I wouldn't dismiss the old offarm just yet :)

@NickCarroll

4 ай бұрын

One thing to think about with rounding is, other sports we compare to all have this rounding component, baseball and hitting with the bat, tennis with the racket, and golf with the club. I'm not saying it's optimal but there's probably a little leeway in a disc golf backswing - so long as there's no impingement, pain, etc. That said, I don't think there's hardly any rounding with Blitz, and he probably isn't experiencing any issues from what I'm seeing. 🙂

We don't have a huge log of pro form from overhead - but seeing your 180 degree coil vs Issac Robinsons 90 degree coil is pretty interesting. I'd like to see you try to replicate a more common coil position of 90 degrees to see if you lose any mph

@BlitzDG

4 ай бұрын

I have done this, but I'd be down to do a video of it. I don't lose THAT much. I can still break 70. It just requires more focus and muscle FOR ME.

I finally got around to testing a Jakub Semerad style off-arm with the tech disc and made a vid of it. Any chance you'll try it if you haven't already? It would be really interesting to see how similar or different the effects are for you. It's doesn't require thinking about off-arm timing so it's pretty easy to test. I hit my max speed during a slow walkup during the test when I've only previously hit that speed once before during a full runup.

@BlitzDG

3 ай бұрын

I actually caught that video. I’ll put it on the list of things to test!

@disc-golf-neil

3 ай бұрын

@@BlitzDG the list only grows, haha

Very interesting video. I would argue that the double move and the "swimming stroke" are cue drills gone berserk. If it works for the person, fine, but is there really any measureable benefit to them? To me it looks and feels like meaningless activation of muscles.

Another banger vid! Comparing speeds between a standstill where you restrict your weight shift with almost all weight starting and staying on front leg vs ones where you allow your normal weight shift isn't a great comparison though. It would be more interesting with modifying the Trebuchet 1 leg style by allowing your normal weight shift to brace more naturally but with focus on his brace knee extension hip snap cue. That might be already what you do in your normal standstill though(?) just without thinking about that cue because at 1:56, I think, you can clearly see the brace leg extension that moves the front hip which just seems to happen normally and automatically with athletic people when they weight shift onto a closed brace foot and rotate. Plus, all the weight starting & staying on the front foot is a drill constraint that is designed for lower power and not really high power throws. When I try it, I have a similar knee-protective-pivot result but only when increasing the power to where the constraint is no longer useful, with a weight shift though the issue goes away. Does a Jakub Semerád style off arm also reduce your power (keeping the off hand on the thigh during coiling with elbow close allowing a little movement so it's not too rigid)? This would be an interesting test with the rest of your normal form to more directly test a close off arm because it doesn't require as much diverted attention to off arm movement and timing that is hard to get right on the spot. Also, I'd love to see a top down view of your normal rip! Would be awesome to see the disc path and hear your thoughts on how much it matches your feeling / cues and how similar the path is to the pros shown throughout this thread: www.dgcoursereview.com/threads/repository-of-cool-images.140711/post-3490718

@_TDG

4 ай бұрын

Great Point about my drill. Completely accurate that it is not a style, but the first step in a progressive sequence of drills. And the amount of rotational power that Blitz throws with absolutely breaks the point of that drill. The point of the drill is to stop throwing rotationally, but Blitz's throw is rotational, thats where most of his power comes from. So its a complete mismatch. He would have to take significant steps backwards in terms of power applied and functional distance to do that one leg drill correctly. And you're right again that a more natural weight shift is one of the next drills in the progression.

@BlitzDG

4 ай бұрын

I have an all angles videos out with above behind and side all in one video!

@BlitzDG

4 ай бұрын

I will say I trimmed out the part where I said it couldn’t possibly keep up because of this, but it honestly held its own even still. AND with me being absolutely terrible at it.

@_TDG

4 ай бұрын

@@BlitzDG its not trying to keep up. Its a calibration drill. The reason it does keep up is because you are throwing how you throw rather than executing the drill as intended: with the only power source being the rear hip dropping. You still get a to of thoracic twist even in a one leg.

@BlitzDG

4 ай бұрын

@@_TDG Hence why it can't keep up....

throw far with the least amount of stress = the perfect disc golf attitude

wide rail gang!

It's very interesting; I have a similar build to you, same height/wingspan. I used to throw more like your style, and in an effort to get better, i started to change my form. I have fixed some things related to hips/counterweight; for example not releasing through heel enough, but i had a more rounded reachback as well and was getting to 450 pretty quick. My back arm was dragging quite a bit though. Then trying to make my form 'better' i have degraded in speed but i can throw with much less effort now for the same result. I will definitely experiment going back to what feels normal for me. How flexible are you? I am quite flexible, so maybe we need that rounded position to maintain tension as you said....

@BlitzDG

4 ай бұрын

I never thought I was overly flexible at all really until people started acting like my coil was insane. I stretch and do mobility work to keep from turning into a clunky meathead, but I don't think I have extraordinary flexibility whatsoever.

Great video. I’m curious how you are bracing that maximizes power with minimal stress on the knees? I’m in my 30s and I want to be able to play and have longevity in my joints.

@BlitzDG

4 ай бұрын

Some say I'm just not :) Realistically though, I'm not statically bracing very much. I'm letting my foot spin and bracing with my quad only as much as my body wants to.

@leopard3131

4 ай бұрын

Rotate on your front hip joint not the knee. If that does not make sense go back to the front leg drill with high hyzer release. Stand straight on the front leg and rotate on the hip joint. If your knee is rotating STOP and go slower. You should be able to get your belt buckle forward, Center of gravity behind the knee, with hip rotation only. If that fails do lateral hops foot to foot , that is the brace against which you "pull" or throw You can, after the release, pull your toes up and you will then pivot on the heel.

One thing I noticed in all of your styles was the toe pivot on the brace. Any thoughts regarding this ? I notice most pros pivot on the heel and most instructors advocate the heel pivot

@BlitzDG

4 ай бұрын

Actually upon rewatch, I do pivot on the heel first, THEN the toe. At least for the more staggered ones.

There is a reason almost every single pro uses a front leg brace. It's literally physics.

@BlitzDG

4 ай бұрын

More than one way to brace big dog.

Lots of good comments here so I'll just add that good cues come and go for the same people in different stages of development. Ultimately (imo) you'll want to stop using cues and just try to flow like water. I'm a little curious what would happen if your run up was a lot more dynamic. It looks very controlled like you're trying to get in position. Try embracing being a kid and going weeeeeee and let muscle memory take over. Remember it's all in service to the hit.

@BlitzDG

4 ай бұрын

Everything goes haywire because my timing is based on coil, and I don't have time to coil as much as I normally do! On that note, I think 360 fixes this to some degree, and I will be learning those in a collab this year!

@yoyoninjaboy6431

4 ай бұрын

@@BlitzDG Funny it's just about the only way I've gotten a reliable half hit and occasional full hit. You're right though the coil suffers. 5'8 380-420ft here.

you crush 500 ft stand stills, i doubt you need to change anything.

@CoffeeBns

4 ай бұрын

Improvements can always be made, or alternate styles for different shot angles can be learned. All about the learning process and I'm sure he loves the learning as much as he loves playing.