Fun fact, the savar is dealing more dps than all except the lithuanian paladin as it has a reload time of 1,8 (same as cavalier) while the paladin is at 1,9

@DemonAgeOfEmpires2-wf8lv

5 күн бұрын

I should have mentioned that.

Also, Lithuanian and Teuton Paladin comes only to who hit first. Teuton +2 MA and Lithianian +2 DMG cancel each other.

@DemonAgeOfEmpires2-wf8lv

5 күн бұрын

So Teutons are better cause rarely Lithuanians will hold on 4+ relics

Now the real one. Which is the best cavalier?

@Bzhydack

6 күн бұрын

Bulgarian.

@joshuastanaland7099

6 күн бұрын

Bulgarian easy.

@morgs5118

5 күн бұрын

Malians or Bulgarians

@user-rx5bj9cn3v

5 күн бұрын

sicilian cavalier is also good less bonus damage and +1/2 armor

@Duke_of_Lorraine

5 күн бұрын

Polish. -60% gold is huge.

Each civ should have their own unique paladin. Lithuanians: Bajorija Huns: Logades Franks: The original paladin skin and unit Byzantines: Latinkon Burgundians: Gendarmes Cumans: Their own version of the Mamluk cavalry Celts: Highland Nobles Magyars: Banderium Spanish: Knights of Santiago Teutons: Gothic Knights Persians: The Savar was such a great addition and it's one of the most badass units currently in the game.

@DemonAgeOfEmpires2-wf8lv

2 күн бұрын

These are interesting ideas

20 years ago, when I play the game, the franks had the best paladins. Nothing has change😅

for the last fight it literally comes down to who hit first as a Lithuanian with 4 relics just cancels the 2 teuton armor

@DemonAgeOfEmpires2-wf8lv

5 күн бұрын

True, but Lithuanians rarely get +4 relics in real games

You can also say that the savaran attack a bit faster than the paladins. For me, the Lithuanians with 4 relics are the best, followed by the savaran and Teutons even. In fourth I would put the Franks then the Cumans.

@DemonAgeOfEmpires2-wf8lv

5 күн бұрын

Interesting choices. Of course real game is very different from stats.

Man, that archer test results of yours were abysmal... Frankish paladin loses 23 % of his HP, while persian savar loses only 17 %. If you ran the test with 3 mangudai, you would see that while frankish paladin kills 1 mangudai and takes second to 52 HP, savar leaves just the third one with 44 HP alive. Mile better result. If you tried that with arbalesters, you would see a slaughter - 7 polish arbalesters (without last armor) are defeated by 1 savar, while that frankish fella goes down after just 2 kills...

@DemonAgeOfEmpires2-wf8lv

5 күн бұрын

That % count is illogical. What if Savar loses only 17% and Frankish 23%? So? You will be left with a Frank unit with 147hp and one with 137hp. And you say that the 137hp unit is better? The percentage would be right is the units had the same hp and armor values. Since they don't it's irrelevant. I tested units one on one. If I added more tests it would be a 30 minute long video and more importantly: If I added many arbalesters against Savars and Paladins then I should add many halbs/Camels against Savars and Paladins where Savars would lose more units, suggesting that we will end up to same results as in the video. Yeah they would slaughter Arbalester but they would lose more against halbs/camels.

@Schmeeczko

5 күн бұрын

@@DemonAgeOfEmpires2-wf8lv If you test just archers and no other unit after is involved, it is illogical to take into account just HP left, as you can see from my results. Nevertheless, 137 HP faster attacking unit with higher armor can be better in many situations than that one with + 10 HP. Tests with more camels would not make any sense as the HP left is low enough, thus the 1 on 1 comparison is preferable in that case. Also I am not saying savar is best in every aspect, I am talking just about that butchered archer test where Franks had no place in getting another 3 points. Sorry, but this is lazy testing at best, as shown in the finals paladin vs paladin, where you failed to realise that the one who hits first will win. I thought you would rather think about that archer test than start throwing excuses, kinda sad.

@DemonAgeOfEmpires2-wf8lv

5 күн бұрын

@@Schmeeczko man, you say that camels should 1 v 1 and archers masses against masses lol. Your logic is against your logic. You either do the one or the other. Otherwise it seems that you want to favour a bonus a unit has. These tests give fair fights, I like Savar a lot too, maybe more than Paladin, but I can't cheat results just for the shake of personal preference. If you find the tests lazy, it's fine, no harm feelings. Thank you for the comment anyway.

@Schmeeczko

5 күн бұрын

No, I proposed more to the edge of tested unit's HP fights, meaning 1 on 1 with camel and ONE on SEVERAL with archers. If you would have tested it vs one arbalester and then counted HP left, savar would end up second worst. Does it tell the full story of its performance against archers? When you test against archers, well, then it kinda shows up in the results who is better when done properly, just saying.

@Klarakitai

5 күн бұрын

Yeah 17% loss is better than 23%. Test the two units against more mangudai you will see that the savar perform way better against archery units.

I like the style and logic that KZread use in your comparison and test

@DemonAgeOfEmpires2-wf8lv

5 күн бұрын

Thank you, I appreciate it!

Nice video great comparison

@DemonAgeOfEmpires2-wf8lv

5 күн бұрын

Much appreciated my friend!

I liked the production quality of the video but I feel like you undervalued Cuman's mobility. 5% extra might not seem like much but it means they get faster surrounds on enemies.They can more easily run from camels and they can run away from other paladins when outnumbered. Also means they raid slightly better too. Finally saves a little on husbandry and while you don't consider how well these civs play out in castle age for knights it also lends to the fact that Cuman knights can reach the enemy base before most other civs. I almost forgot while not as good as Teutons resistance, they also get run away from or engage monks more easily. PS I don't even like Cumans as a civ. CA civ without bracer, I just hate that. 2 TC boom is just weird.

THis was such a joy to watch, even brewed some coffee in the morning to enjoy it even more. The Paladin one on one fights were the best part

@DemonAgeOfEmpires2-wf8lv

5 күн бұрын

I'm glad you liked the video, means a lot, thank you! Paladin vs Paladin was my favourite part too!

Whoa, those elephant archer skins at 3:42 are awsome! What's that mod? Is it on steam?

@Edelweiss1102

2 күн бұрын

I think that's the Dagnajan hero unit from the Yodit campaign, it should be in the scenario editor.

@DemonAgeOfEmpires2-wf8lv

2 күн бұрын

They are hero units from scenario editor. You can find them easily

@MaxHohenstaufen

2 күн бұрын

@@DemonAgeOfEmpires2-wf8lv ah.. too bad not available as cosmetic mods.

All hail the Franks

Overall a very fun video and the outcome seems reasonable for the most part. I do however feel that there is a bit too much focus on just 1 v 1 comparisons. Which in turn often leads to two 2 points that I feel like are often overlooked, viability (especially in 1 v 1) and unit competition, referring to how many viable units are fighting for that spot as your main army composition, as you usually won't be able to just get and upgrade them all. In that regard, I feel like the best Paladin civs tend to be the ones with a strong eco and which are naturally geared towards going heavy cav. Burgundians are pretty amazing in that part in that they make Paladins viable in most 1 v 1s and give you a big power spike in early imp. On the flip side, you have something like Magyars, which sound great on paper with the free attack upgrades, but they have absolutely no eco bonus and also amazing Cav Archers and cheaper or better Hussars, which often might be the better combo to go for. Personally, I rank them the following: 1. Franks (more hp, 40% faster creation time, smooth eco, best Paladin in general) 2. Savar (cheaper and faster to upgrade, attacks slightly faster, takes less damage from archers/defensive buildings and kills them faster, great eco, beat generic Paladins 1 v 1) 3. Teutons (+2 melee armor, conversion resistance, great eco with cheaper farms, best Paladin in 1 v 1, but lack husbandry) and 4. Lithuanians (highest ceiling with getting +4 attack potentially and great eco, but reliant on getting relics and competition from Leitis) 5. Burgundians (50% cheaper upgrades, Cavalier in castle age, amazing eco, but lack bloodlines) 6. Cumans (move 5% faster, cheaper stables and potentially amazing eco if you can pull off the 2 TCs in Feudal) 7. generic FU Paladins aka Magyars (free attack upgrades, but lack eco bonus and competition with other units), Spanish (blacksmith upgrades cost no gold, upgrades give back 20 gold, competition with other units) and Huns (stables work 20% faster, competition with other units) 8. Byzantines (a lot of competition with other units, no eco bonus, lack bloodlines and blast furnace) 9. Celts (a lot of competition with other units, lack bloodlines and last armor upgrade)

@DemonAgeOfEmpires2-wf8lv

2 күн бұрын

Besides stats, the great factor during gameplay is the strategy. I agree with most of your points, especially the ranking list you did.

What if that paladin definition was a round robin? That would lead to interesting positions. And/or a round robin tournament of paladin civs and camel civs

@DemonAgeOfEmpires2-wf8lv

2 күн бұрын

I like the idea of a tournament

Nice

@DemonAgeOfEmpires2-wf8lv

6 күн бұрын

Thanks!

The best paladin is not one. It IS a savar

@DemonAgeOfEmpires2-wf8lv

2 күн бұрын

Coming up at next video

No celts no byzantines 🥶😭

@user-fi7io8dp4t

6 күн бұрын

Byzantines got low hp and no last attack upgrade

@morgs5118

5 күн бұрын

They're hopeless, if you make paladins as those civs you need to learn to play those civs properly

@newname4941

5 күн бұрын

There was a hera-tatoh Tournament Game which Hera won with Celt Paladins. ​@@morgs5118

@newname4941

5 күн бұрын

There was a hera-tatoh Tournament Game which Hera won with Celt Paladins. ​@@morgs5118

@DemonAgeOfEmpires2-wf8lv

5 күн бұрын

I included only civ with bonuses. Not even FU Paladins

The paladin with major potential: Lithuanians The strong paladin without external factors (relics): Teutons The best civilization for massive paladins creations: Franks.

@DemonAgeOfEmpires2-wf8lv

5 күн бұрын

Who would you choose though?

Celts no Bloodlines nor Plate armor and Bizantines no Blast Furnace nor Bloodlines 😢

Hp in % IS more accuracy. Or in battle time duration

@DemonAgeOfEmpires2-wf8lv

2 күн бұрын

I will keep in mind for future videos

With Lithuanians and Teutons going head to head: it should be a 50-50 (+2 melee armor vs +2 attack cancel each other out). The winner comes (and who ultimately gets second place) came down to who got the first hit. In 1v1, Burgundians have the most viable paladins (due to much cheaper upgrade cost), likely followed by Persian Savars (again due to upgrade cost). The Paladin tech is too expensive to be viable in most 1v1 games - takes about 40 Paladins for the tech to be worthwhile (and the tech itself takes a long time to research - Franks and Huns with their faster stables benefit in that area). In team games, Burgundians have a better power spike from Paladins, but lack the staying power that stronger Paladins get. I think Franks, Teutons, and Lithuanians with 4 relics are the best Paladins for team games. Magyars free attack upgrades are nice, but they're something you'd also get for other melee units (including hussar spam), so you'd likely be getting them even if you weren't going for Paladins.

@DemonAgeOfEmpires2-wf8lv

5 күн бұрын

Valid points, I agree with most of them. But the Lithuanians are good as long as they have 4+ relics. And usually they opt for Leiciai

did anyone ever research faith for paladins? like it is extremely useful, but at my elo 1200-1300 I never went up against full monks in imp (except when on war elephants)

@DemonAgeOfEmpires2-wf8lv

5 күн бұрын

I mention this in the video. I never do. Not because I don't want but never a game takes that long.

@Edelweiss1102

2 күн бұрын

Only really in teamgames that go on a long time. In 1 v 1 you don't even get to Paladin that often and even if you, Faith is just not worth the price most of the time.

Your unit tests were a little flawed. Comparing the absolute hp of the different units after fighting a mangudai doesnt make sense, when they have differnt hp to begin with. The persian savar had basically the same amount of hp left as most paladins but started with 15 hp less. After some more fights the savar would be so much better off than most others due to their higher armor but still they only got 1 point for that. That test should be exchanged with a different one that better represents the power of the different units.

@Bzhydack

6 күн бұрын

Yeah, he should convert to %

@DemonAgeOfEmpires2-wf8lv

5 күн бұрын

What you suggest about Savar, stands for the other civ too. Adding more or different units would provide the same results in long term.

You forgot the Byzantines :-(

@jonathanspeicher5298

6 күн бұрын

They and the Celts don't have any bonuses to lend to Paladins. They are ruled out in advance...

@ordinaryrat

6 күн бұрын

Byzantines lack bloodlines. They would be out of the race nomatter what.

@DemonAgeOfEmpires2-wf8lv

5 күн бұрын

Byzantines don't have bonuses for Paladins :)

In my opinion Hun bonus is better than Spanish, and also not so much weaker than Franks (Chivalry) because is free, kicks right in Castle Age, and affects also all upgrades. So I dont understand why you kicked them out.

@DemonAgeOfEmpires2-wf8lv

5 күн бұрын

Because there is already a civ with faster creation time. The Franks. Huns beside the faster time, they don't offer anything else for palas

@Bzhydack

5 күн бұрын

@@DemonAgeOfEmpires2-wf8lv Not true. They can upgrade both Cavalier and Paladin faster, so they will be second faster to get Paladin after Burgundians. Franks first need a Castle, pay for Unique Tech and wait for it.

@DemonAgeOfEmpires2-wf8lv

5 күн бұрын

@@Bzhydack no I am not wrong. You confuse the purpose of the video. In this video we are testing Paladins at their final form, not knights/cavaliers. Meaning post imperial Paladins. If we took into consideration the knight line in general, then Burgundians would win this test.

Celts have the best Paladin, because nobody expects them and they have a suprise factor.

@widodoakrom3938

4 күн бұрын

Lack of bonus and they don't have bloodlines also with the last cavalry armor upgrade

@DemonAgeOfEmpires2-wf8lv

4 күн бұрын

That's not a bad idea

I prefer your actual voice to the AI voice

@DemonAgeOfEmpires2-wf8lv

5 күн бұрын

Thanks! Glad you like it!

And Cuman is pain in the ass when you dont have Camel. I think you placed Cumans too low.

@DemonAgeOfEmpires2-wf8lv

5 күн бұрын

There are ways to deal with cuman Paladins. Halbs, Unique units, etc. Depends..

you rated the speed produktion time 2 times for franks... they are completly overrated in your test. teutons easy can build with there cheaper farms more stables and outproduce france..

@DemonAgeOfEmpires2-wf8lv

5 күн бұрын

Teutons can't build the same amount of paladins the same time though. And Franks get more hit points without any tech. This argument can go back and forth depending on strategy. These tests are more about numbers

Greek?

@DemonAgeOfEmpires2-wf8lv

4 күн бұрын

Yes

No Byzantines bro :)))

@theisaias2061

6 күн бұрын

They hace generic paladín without bloodlines

@divicospower9112

6 күн бұрын

@@theisaias2061 nor blast furnace.

@DemonAgeOfEmpires2-wf8lv

5 күн бұрын

No special bonus.