"In other words, is deep sleep the absence of awareness or the awareness of absense?" Nice.

@garmind4868

3 жыл бұрын

Its kinda like to know something is to be it. And when you're being it. You don't know it.

@markustv916

3 жыл бұрын

That question makes the mind stop

@seangraddy5068

3 жыл бұрын

Read my comment.

@perothing

2 жыл бұрын

@@garmind4868 True.

Dennis Waite states: "In deep sleep, you do not experience anything. But this is because there is 'nothing' to experience, not because ‘you’ have disappeared. You see neither external world (because the senses are inactive) nor internal thoughts (because the mind is inactive). But the Self that is the witnessing Consciousness in deep meditation is still present in deep sleep. It never ‘sleeps’ (or dies) because it is the only thing that really exists. It is who you really are."

@clauderrojas2

3 жыл бұрын

Quick question: couldn't it be that when you answer the question "how did you sleep?" You just check how you feel at the moment you're asked the question and just infer how good a night you had? If you feel ok, you say I slept well. If you feel bad, you say"I slept badly"... This has bugged me for que a while now and someone here might have an answer... Thanks in advance...

@whoami-qy6rs

3 жыл бұрын

@@clauderrojas2 Yeah.. That's exactly how I've felt.. Thank You very much for expressing this for me, Clauder :)!!

@bam2385

3 жыл бұрын

@@clauderrojas2 if you feel good in the morning then it's a fact you must of spent most of the night in deep sleep as it's peaceful there. So even though you may be referring to how your feeling at the moment you still answered the question relating to sleep so you knew you where in deep sleep and it felt good. Usually if you wake up feeling bad it assumes that most of your night was spent in dreams/nightmares hence you don't feel as refreshed from being in the deep sleep state long enough. Still the awareness was there even in nightmares hence you can say I slept badly. So if someone asked you how you feel at this moment you will say "I feel good" although you may not be aware or unaware that the deep sleep was the cause. But if the question is refrazed to "did you sleep well" you say yes immediately even if your attention is not focused on how your body is feeling you know you slept well. Hope I have clarified it a little

@DrMoon50

3 жыл бұрын

@@clauderrojas2 Simply check in between sleep and awake. You can have a glimpse of consciousness.

@Darken_8

2 жыл бұрын

How do you know that's it is in meditation?did you feel it when sleeping?

I love sleep. I’m disappointed when I awake at times.

@motivationalbite9271

Жыл бұрын

Actually You love Awareness (that is you), But you get disappointed when your mind(Thoughts) is activated in waking state.

Thank you sir for your time and teaching 🙏

This is such a deep truth, it's something that keeps dawning on you, the more you think about it and experience it. Amazing. Thank you Rupert.

You're teachings are perfect, thank you 🙏🏻

Thank you! I've been pondering this question for months. The words are now pointing somewhere. I now know where to look and experience this for myself.

It is not the awareness of the deep sleep that makes you feel 'rested', but the relaxed feeling after a deep sleep. So it is not a memory, but an observation AFTER sleeping. And an assumption that it is because of the deep sleep.

@az_uni09

11 күн бұрын

I was thinking the same thing!

Thank you Rupert Spira Sir. Your insights are astounding

Such a great teaching. Lots of pranam to enlightened yogi like you.🙏🙏🙏🙏

Excellent direct teaching that clarifies alot of misconceptions and confusion.

Thanks for posting this. I have had this question for a long time. To answer “did you sleep well?” why can’t you base how rested you feel presently?

@rahulraina6303

2 жыл бұрын

I was wondering the same. If the questioner would have given that answer instead of say clock or bed, it would be an interesting tangent Rupert might have taken to answer. But as i was writing this comment, suddenly i have an analogy. When you are traveling from a destination A to B. Imagine 2 roads leading you there. One smoothly paved and the other muddy and broken. Imagine you have no memory of the path but only have to report once you arrive at Point B. You check with your body in the present moment of point B. How the body feels on point B is dependent on the path. Hence the present report from the body is a summary of the night before. Ummm...

@anchalbansal7486

2 жыл бұрын

@@rahulraina6303 good analogy 👍

This answer/understanding was profound for “me”.

The clarity and elegance in this is beautiful!

Brilliant 🙏🏼🙏🏼 Beautiful and Big Thanks

Brilliant, as per. My book arrived today 👍🏼

I take issue with this explanation of deep sleep though. When I awake, I decide whether I slept well or not on of I feel *in the present*. If I feel refreshed, I assume I slept well; if I'm tired or stressed, I don't. I have no memory - except occasionally for dreams - of how deep sleep feels. I do know that I can't remember consciousness either disappearing or re-appearing at the beginning and at the end of my sleep time; but the point about how "it felt" seems really wonky to me.

@amit6168

3 жыл бұрын

Yup...Apparently many people who have undergone "spiritual awakening" of some kind or the other report feeling a sense of continuity even in deep sleep. It's as if the lights are never completely out. This does not mean that there is some thought during deep sleep that goes "wow, i am aware of sleep" as the "mind" is absent. Rather there is just the sense of primordial presence without images or verbalizing. I suppose if that were to be my experience I would be much more likely to accept notions of awareness always being there than any theoretical explanation.

Brilliant talk.

When I was a child I feared sleep and the loss of my self, of death.

I have to sleep on this one ;) Thank you Mr Spira.

just a simple investigation close ur eyes, are you there? close ur ears, are you still there? stop your thoughts, still u exist? forget about the body, are still there? if your answere is yes to all that, then thats what hapens in deep sleep.

@-report1070

3 жыл бұрын

@Oliver Jerrett yes you are aware. there is nothing to aware of. no thought perception or anything. but if you set a alarm you will awake. if you wont aware, then you cant hear and you cant awake. and you you cant aware of awareness. you cant perceive the perceiver.

@Ashish-nd3xj

3 жыл бұрын

@Oliver Jerrett or may be when you wake up, you forget the experience of being aware when sleeping deep. Who knows

@dipper888bp

3 жыл бұрын

@@Ashish-nd3xj exactly. It’s all just theories and beliefs. No one really knows.

@bildencarlia6924

3 жыл бұрын

@@dipper888bp Do you ever listen to what the others say to you or you are satisfied by just repeating yourself.Since the mind is absent during deep sleep there is nothing left to be aware of(ideas-thoughts -perceptions-sensations and all the rest that the mind is capable of being involved with) and therefore it seems that awareness is absent but it is not since there is nothing to be reported.After all if your were active in this spiritual journey you would have already experienced that awareness is always on because its the mother of all experirence and its the same substance that the whole cosmos is made of....its not just theories and beliefs....explore this possibility before you repeat yourself again...

Impresionante!!! Muchísimas gracias

I feel fine when I wake up therefore i know i slept well. The awareness of continuity and the halt of it, makes me know am devoid of consciousness.

I don’t look forward to deep sleep, I look forward to waking up rested. I don’t fear deep sleep because I’ve literally woken up every time. It’s not the same as fearing death. That said, there is also no fear of death.

@LarsTaunus

Жыл бұрын

Absolutely agreed, I was about to write the same. Is it that we look forward to deep sleep or rather that the body-mind gets tired and we find ourselves refreshed the next morning and that's why we "look forward" to deep sleep. I like Rupert a lot and find non duality really inspiring and interesting but I feel that deep sleep and the state of anaesthesia difficult to integrate into the understanding.

@azathoth4473

Жыл бұрын

It is same as death I would say death is in fact more like a dream

@LarsTaunus

Жыл бұрын

@@azathoth4473 I never look forward to deep sleep. The body mind gets exhausted and tired and in our experience when we lay down to sleep we wake up refreshed.....that's why we go to sleep. In fact I often postpone sleep (to my detriment) because I do not want to sleep but at some point the body mind forces on the sleep stage...

@Paljk299

5 ай бұрын

Also certain fears are primal almost programmed into the body/mind, I don't see a cobra and think 'hmm snake, be afraid', it's a primal reaction. In the same way we just have no primal fear of sleep because it's a basic human function, the body is programmed to need sleep not to fear it, except maybe in some strange cases or if there is a real fear of harm while sleeping,

I agree with Rupert on everything except this. To me, did I sleep well, I'm referring to my current experience in the waking state: if I'm tired NOW then I say no; if I feel NOW rested and bodily satisfied with my rest, then I say yes. If I didn't go with my current feeling, then I'd say I don't know, I wasn't aware of the quality of it - there was just nothingness until I woke up. Also, EXPERIENCIALLY, isn't the absence of awareness the same as the awareness of absence? It doesn't make a difference other than another way of interpreting what happens in deep sleep - but the experience is still the same - voidness, emptiness and nothingness

@joannagiblin5964

3 жыл бұрын

I agree. This is the one thing Rupert explains from logic and not from experience as you have very succinctly pointed out. Plus, we look fwd to going to sleep bc we know we will wake up. If we didn’t know that we wouldn’t want to go to sleep, right? Where is the awareness of awareness (recognition) during deep sleep? Surely we would know we are in deep sleep if we were aware of it .. and this is not my experience (ie not like being aware of being aware in between thoughts etc) .. I think memory plays a bigger part in this than is given credit by non dual teachers

@aspeckt1

3 жыл бұрын

I think You're both still associating awareness with your thoughts and perceptions, like a concious thought "I'm currently aware I am sleeping" deep sleep is just being. awareness without anything to be aware of , even its self. More like Awareness IN Absence rather than of absence. that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, the absense exists for the awareness as does the awareness itself but it doesn't need to recognize itself doing anything, it just is. Awareness perceiving there is nothing is still perceiving something. You're no longer sleeping you're conciously thinking vs nothing but awareness without a what to be aware of. Pure Being. Just Being.

@EmbodiedNonDuality

2 жыл бұрын

I think the difference between absence of awareness and the awareness of absence is perhaps a nice phrase but doesn't quite speak accurately to the experience. In the awareness of absence there is still an underlying felt sense of just existence but without any content. So 'absence' is not strictly accurate. But this whole thing is paradoxical so to make it logical never quite works. While I like Ruperts teachings I feel they encourage too much mental processing and concept building. At some point you have to let go of these concepts too. I mean, learning the answer to this issue you raise won't help ultimately if enlightenment is your goal. Answers are for a mind. If you resign yourself to the simple fact that experience is ultimately unknowable you can let go of it all. There's nothing to hold onto becasue experience is so transient and unknowable

Thank you, but I genuinely respond I don't know how I slept except I feel rested. What would you respond with this reply!🙏

@mrjsneff

3 жыл бұрын

Knowing you slept well is an inference based on how you feel when you wake up

@yiranimal

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, one of the reasons this clip is unsatisfying.

You answer that you slept well because you wake up feeling rested and refreshed. That is my question as well.

@anusarikashree6109

3 жыл бұрын

Have you ever woken up abruptly, and knew you were in deep sleep just before you woke up?

@EmbodiedNonDuality

2 жыл бұрын

I think until we can experience the continuity of being in deep sleep personally, then inference is all there is to go by. You could say if I lose awareness during deep sleep then I would never wake up because if you lose awareness you have no awareness of your own existence so where would the impetus to do anything arise from? You don't exist. So why would you wake up if this was the case? So we can only infer that we don't lose awareness of our existence in deep sleep.

not convinced by his explanations, cos I fight every night to go to bed despite appreciating sleeping , but I wonder is deep sleep the most accurate representation of what death could be ? it's really intriguing ...

Isn't the answer to the question based off of how you feel now that you have woken up ? I answer the question "did you sleep well?" Based off of how I feel in that present moment. If I feel awake and well rested then the answer is yes. If I still feel groggy and tired then the answer is no . The answer can also be based off of how many times I remember waking up throughout the night . These are just thoughts I have associated to this question. Can anyone help to clarify these things ?

@TissaUnderscore

3 жыл бұрын

I think the point is more that your experience is not completely disappearing, or falling asleep & waking up as if you time travelled. When you wake up there is some sense of a “sleeping experience”. And then the question should not be if it was a nice experience but who/what was there during that sleep? And is that not still there now?

@seangraddy5068

3 жыл бұрын

Read my comment

@vinceofyork

Жыл бұрын

Just because a movie isn't playing on a screen, does that mean the screen ceases to exist?

What is the difference between deep sleep and time travel (wich called astral projection), even though time travel doesn't use any of the five senses?

I think what Rupert means by awareness is the single indivisible whole reality, and if you just stick to this meaning, what he says makes sense. Initially, I found myself too confused and not convinced by what Rupert was saying about deep sleep, for deep sleep is not an experience by definition, so how can you state or prove that there is still awareness of absence, which is a legitimate and logically-correct observation. However, once you see awareness is just a name for the single whole reality, it becomes obvious that when you are in deep sleep - or generally when there is absence of human conscious experience - the single whole reality is still there, just being itself as "always". In my opinion, "awareness of absence" should not be interpreted as a kind of experience of absence, for that is a contradiction, experience of absence does not exist by definition. The point is to fully realize that you are this single indivisible whole reality which is manifesting in what we call "here and now" as you. Therefore, If there is no separation between you and reality (non-duality) then there is just reality, and when conscious experience goes away reality does remain, we all know this very well but we simply forget and leave ourselves out the reality as detached independent conscious observers.

@clauderrojas2

3 жыл бұрын

You really make a good point here but still, I think there's no way to answer the question either from "experience" or by logical deduction. Don't you think? I mean, couldn't it be that when you answer the question "how did you sleep?" You just check how you feel at the moment you're asked the question and just infer how good a night you had? If you feel ok, you say "I slept well." or "I had a good night" but If you feel bad, you say"I slept badly"... This has bugged me for que a while now and someone here might have an answer... Thanks in advance...

@mattiagiagante7384

3 жыл бұрын

@@clauderrojas2 Thank you for your comment. I do agree with you, I think we can only answer the question "how did you sleep" only by checking the current state when we wake up. By the way, the relation between deep sleep and the quality of sleep is intimately connected and so it is easy to fall into that fallacy. It is likely that you didn't sleep well precisely because you did not get deep sleep, and vice versa, since it is the most restorative phase of sleep. Moreover, the sense of being rested and refreshed are sensations of the body-mind, whose conscious experience is absent in deep sleep. The same is true for happiness and peace, but Rupert always made clear that he used these words as a concession and not as the actual psychological states of happiness and peace. So, maybe Rupert used these terms as more an analogy with its own limitations than a literal meaning. However, as I suggested above, the interpretation of awareness as the single whole reality, undressed of any word that might recall a state of the body-mind such as peace or happiness, can help us understand the central point that Rupert is trying to make here, and in generally about the question of deep sleep in non-duality. Hope it helps you.

@clauderrojas2

3 жыл бұрын

@@mattiagiagante7384 that was really helpful. Thanks a lot!

@mattiagiagante7384

2 жыл бұрын

@RGV9 based on my understanding, I would respond to the question of death from the starting point that what exists is a single whole, and there are no subjects to have a consciousness, but only reality expressing itself as what we call consciousness. Therefore, to wonder about what would happen to one's consciousness upon death is an ill-formulated question and no valid answer can be given. That being said now, I presume that when a reality's point of view (or one expression of itself) "ends", there is no after for that expression for it was never an expression per se to begin with, and I guess this is in line with the fact that there is no a "before" for an expression prior to its birth. Reality, being one whole, cannot contain by definition a clear distinct line where one of its expression really begins and ends. Reality with its innumerable ways of being is already apparently born and died infinite times, and the expression of consciousness upon death can do nothing but disappear, yet the essence of which is made of (reality) remains. At this point I don't think words can really say anything else...but only reality itself will tell, by just being itself, about "the next".

I believe there are different stages of consciousness of reality (and ourselves since we are a part of reality). Dreams in r.e.m. are different than being awake. Comatose is different than dreaming...then there is death.

In deep sleep we are all one, without a separate someone there to know that.

@somatiful

3 жыл бұрын

soul?

@DrunkenBoatCaptain

3 жыл бұрын

@@somatiful Atman is Brahman. The quietest part of your soul is identical with Everything.

Potentially a big “fan” of Rupert, but I have a problem with this reasoning. I have made numerous comments/questions about this, but never get an answer. My objections are along these lines: In all other matters, Rupert encourages to deduct from self inquiry and experience. When people return the answer, that they’re completely unaware in deep sleep, Rupert demands their consciousness to be aware of the fact, that they are not aware. Doesn’t make sense! If I missed a dentists appointment at 2pm yesterday, Rupert suggest that I can only be sure that I did not show up, if I was there to witness it. Huh???

@ultrafeel-tv

3 жыл бұрын

I think I have found an answer to the 'awareness in deep sleep'-problem which I have never heard anybody describing just as following: If there were no awareness during deep sleep, wouldn't we experience sleep as lying on the bed, getting more and more tired (falling asleep) and then just suddenly getting more alert and awake again? But it's actually not what we experience! Now after you read this example you should see it: We actually KNOW that we experience 'something or nothing' between the gradually getting more tired, and then waking up! Otherwise we wouldn't even talk about "sleeping" we would just say something like "relaxing".

@michaelnielsen3462

3 жыл бұрын

@@ultrafeel-tv Appreciate the response☺️👍 But for the sake of an argument: Isn’t this just a rationalisation AFTER the fact of not experiencing anything? What’s the difference between being dead (in the material sense) and being alive not knowing about it? This is what would happen, if you died of a heart attack in your sleep. Not saying you are all wrong, though - just speculating out loud. Still, I find it troublesome, that Rupert refuses to address this...

I’ve thought about this and came to realize that it is a matter of semantics. Consciousness + Awareness are in actuality, two different things. Awareness is a function of the nervous system thus when in deep sleep, drunk or disturbed mind, your awareness is altered. Consciousness is that in which all is.

If there were no awareness in sleep we would not be aware of any gap between falling asleep and waking up, except by inference e.g Looking at a clock. But we are aware of it and not simply by inference. Rupert is correct and his answer is valid one. The reason you say you are not aware is because of the arising of your mind or ego, with which you identify, and which does not function in sleep. Actually even the so-called sleep-waking cycle itself is a function of ego. Ultimately it doesn't exist. All there ever is is the one eternal unchanging pure awareness.

I know i slept well if i am feeling good in morning there is no awareness there when i am sleeping

@ultrafeel-tv

3 жыл бұрын

Actually there is...: If there were no awareness during deep sleep, wouldn't we experience sleep as lying on the bed, getting more and more tired (falling asleep) and then just suddenly getting more alert and awake again? But it's actually not what we experience! Now after you read this example you should see it: We actually KNOW that we experience 'something or nothing' between the gradually getting more tired, and then waking up! Otherwise we wouldn't even talk about "sleeping" we would just say something like "relaxing".

I always have to check the clock to see how long I have been asleep after awakening from sleep, that only than let's me know that I must have been in a deep sleep if a lot of time has gone by.

Wow 🙏

Sir I have been trying to use turiya state of consciousness to manifest but somehow I am aware of my sleep each night but can’t manifest. What should I be doing to manifest in sleep?

Right, Rupert needs to look up the word "inference". You don't dread awareness going byebye during sleep b/c you know you're safe and will wake up. You know you slept well b/c you infer it from your body feeling refreshed in the morning. If these spiritual teachers told you that the peace of enlightenment is the peace of a rock or a tree you wouldn't pay to see their seminars lol.

@ravindramurthy3486

3 жыл бұрын

Dear friend: Does inference require memory or knowledge or previous experience?

He briefly touched on it, but just barely scraped the surface of that question - "Is it myself that wakes tomorrow?"

Always the same weak argument, I know I slept well because I feel the positive effects of a good sleep on my body, that's it. Love Rupert but time to find better arguments for this.

@joschroons3589

2 жыл бұрын

Not always, watch this one: kzread.info/dash/bejne/gnl5zpKJppernrg.html Tldr: Deep sleep doesn’t exist, it is not an experience.

@andreac5152

2 жыл бұрын

@@joschroons3589 ok then, we should throw away the reality of sleep, definitely not common sense. Anyway this isn't a good argument either for another reason. You cannot distinguish a disappearing experience from a disapperaring consciousness.

@Terrybear27

Жыл бұрын

Exactly. The knowing of a good or bad night's sleep is felt in retrospect. Rupert has no valid answer for this repeated question. He has previously stated that this omnipresent 'knowing' must be present during sleep or we couldn't be awakened with an alarm clock. It's a well known fact that the brains auditory neurons are hyper sensitive when sleeping as a safety mechanism.

@KiranKumar-tq6tr

9 ай бұрын

Ok.. let's assume you sleep at 10 o clock and you went in deep sleep and then u awake at 2 o clock and still it's pretty dark outside , in this situation if there is no consciousness in deep sleep then I will never know that I were in deep sleep because there were no consciousness and it's dark outside also, but it doesn't happen practically, we immediately know that we were in deep sleep, it proves that there is consciousness in deep sleep which experience the absence of thoughts. You can also search on KZread Swami Sarvapriyananda's lecture on deep sleep to know more about it.

@axetroll

6 ай бұрын

Anybody found a better view of reality and a logical answer to non duality?

Doesn't quite do it for me. Perhaps someone else can explain? I don't know whether anything is present during deep sleep. To answer the question "did you sleep well? ", it is retrospective and assumes a past. How can it be answered in deep sleep - when the mind, at least, has "departed" ? I am not aware that I am present there.

Deep sleep is our true reality. Yoga nidra gives you access to it. 🙏

Por gentileza, coloquem legendas em português...🙏❤😊

@jucaandrade2828

3 жыл бұрын

Seria uma boa, esse assunto é complexo até para os nativos.

Sweet

It’s right here

I know i slept well bc i remember me sleepint well and i think i also dont feel tired and skeepy later on during the day. But at the time of sleep im still not conscious

When Rupert asks what your experience was during deep sleep, keep this in mind: 1. This implies with such a question that in deep sleep there is an passing. duration, time. But has anyone ever experienced such an experience in the supposed "state" of deep sleep itself? The answer in my case is no, and therefore there is nothing like a "state" of deep sleep. If he asked my reactionary the same question, saying "what deep dream are you talking about?" 2. Who experiences peace during such a state? This question does not apply, because there has never been an experience of passage, duration, or time, in deep sleep itself. In deep sleep, the mind is not active, therefore there is no memory, however, how could you upon waking up report that you experienced peace or happiness in such a state? My experience regarding sleeping is this, I close my eyes, there is dreamlike sleep, I look at the clock, and 8 hours have passed. In the event that there was no dream, there was only a closing of the eyes, and opening them, nothing to report. My comment to all this is that the stories of peace/happiness/ associated with a supposed state of deep sleep are just conjectures without reference. Anyone who agrees/disagrees with this?

@Paljk299

5 ай бұрын

yes makes sense and is consistent with my experience. There's a dreamy state when you start to go to sleep and wake up, and maybe a dream or the odd awakenings in the night, and the feeling that time has passed in the morning because of these experiences, but I have no experience of a deep sleep state.

Are general anesthesia and deep sleep in the same category? If not then where are the differences?

If the world is an image-- sleep is also an image

Knowing 'I slept well' is inferred from the feeling of rest and refreshment on waking, not from any experience in deep sleep.

@azathoth4473

Жыл бұрын

It Does Try It, Only After Pure Deep Sleep You Feel Well

@user-jo2zb7pt4n

6 ай бұрын

Not even close...

How can we know if sleep is not a gap in a memory? And maybe there are some objects to experience but I do not remember them?

@azathoth4473

Жыл бұрын

It is a gap in memory, you cannot experience Self/Pure Consciousness in memory, You can be aware of yourself only in True and Pure Knowledge (Technically I don't like the word Knowledge Vidya is more appropriate) it kinds of correlates to both skill/knowledge/realised.

Then does that mean during deepsleep - for one who experiences it - does the world really disappear with all its constituents (for real)? And if it be so, without any volition of the Consciousness, the world / Universe appears and (really) disappears ?

honestly my theory is that you just forget what you experience during deep sleep, or rather, your mind doesn't form any memories during deep sleep. i say this because it's still possible to wake someone up from deep sleep, which not only implies that awareness still exists but also that the senses are still active.

@azathoth4473

Жыл бұрын

It's because your consciousness is very very under the illusion of it's identity of body. In Anaesthesia the chemicals makes the body and brain numb for a certain Period of time that's why it doesn't gets much affected as deep sleep.

@azathoth4473

Жыл бұрын

You can pretty much differenciate alot of things after you experience "Out Of Body Experience" the real one, a few people have experience that, Ramana Maharshi was one of them and also Me.

It is the absence of awareness for me. And when someone asks if you slept well, the question and answer are generally rhetorical. If anything, you answer that you slept well because you didn’t toss and turn and in fact, you feel rested. My consciousness is not conscious when I sleep. Otherwise, it wouldn’t be sleep.

@ikwartin

3 жыл бұрын

Yes. It is the absence of awareness and the absence of the body-mind. Nothing exist in deep sleep. This false teaching make it looks as if deep sleep is a place where the body-mind person or awareness go. Deep sleep is not a place.

@ikwartin

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheSoteriologist I hear you bro but you see in this life almost 90 percent of the things we think we know are what someone told us. When are we going to stop knowing things by what others told us? If indeed there is a transcendent awareness whose properties are described as empty, devoid of objects, yet wakeful, alert and conscious of self why have you not experience it. It always somebody telling you about it. Those who have experienced transcendent awareness cannot prove it. They could be lying and manipulating you for money making. These guys have written books on this false teaching and are making millions of dollars. Rupert Spira's net worth is about one to 5 million dollars.

@ikwartin

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheSoteriologist I read you well. I just added to your comments in support. You said, " I hear that some realizers never have a loss of awareness even in deep sleep. Well, outside that there is no indication for the truth of this. You cannot argue others into it." I agree with you 100 percent. It is always what we hear and outside that there is no indication of the truth. It is hard to argue others into it.

@seangraddy5068

3 жыл бұрын

So the beauty of all these teachings is that you yourself don’t have to take another’s word for it. You can experience these things for yourself and should pursue finding your true nature. Don’t take my word for it. Put some time into exploring your inner world and discover what you truly are and capable of. This isn’t a story telling contest. It’s a pointing out of the possibility to discover how truly amazing this life and its deepest experiences are. Get more out of this time you have than just the pursuit of stuff. Live fully and peacefully by realizing your true self. These talks are all just pointers and expressions of possibilities. There is some amount of belief required to start but there is also a sense that what is being said is true. More true than all the other messages people are telling. I didn’t discover non duality until I was 38 years old. I thought all religions were fairy tales. But when I heard a Yogi talk for the first time I could hear the sense of it and felt that it was true. I also discovered my own assumptions about religion in general were wrong. And that I had no real idea what they were about. I started reading A New Earth by Eckhart Tolle and awakened in a moment of self realization. After that I started reading about yoga and advaita Vedanta, and Buddhism. They all speak true. You are here watching and listening so you are already on the journey. Keep going and see what you can find out about yourself. Rupert isn’t for everyone. Try Swami Sarvapriananda and Advaita Vedanta. It is a perfect description of our experiences and how to differentiate between consciousness and what is experienced. Good luck.

@ikwartin

3 жыл бұрын

@@seangraddy5068 This teaching is for those who don't know their true nature. I know my true nature and i don't need any teacher to teach me who i am.

yes

You can't recognize your self during deep sleep because you don't have perception. The awareness of absence exist only at the waking state. You know anything ONLY in the waking state. You cannot know your self during deep sleep.

@dipper888bp

3 жыл бұрын

Does that disagree with Rupert?

@nekfraye

3 жыл бұрын

@@dipper888bp of course it does.

@dipper888bp

3 жыл бұрын

@@nekfraye ultimately it’s all just a belief.

@nekfraye

3 жыл бұрын

@@dipper888bp I think that we are talking based on experience, but maybe you are right..

@alisonsalter9702

Жыл бұрын

Awareness is not perception. Perception is a movement of Awareness. Awareness is the stuff out of which all perceptions are borne out of.

What we need to ask is why conciousness slow the passing of time from the infinite speed it passes at in the absence of conciousness. We wake knowing time passed due to the concious observations of change, but we do this by experiencing time at the rate we do while concious. There is no objectively true speed for time.. it passes relative to each observer... so why slowly enough for us to do meaningful things with it?

The response to “How do you know you slept well? “ would be given by checking memory for how many times did I wake up? The truth is this. It is another experience that is so common that it is very rarely remembered. Our minds forget it and disregard the experience of deep sleep 99.9% of the time. That being said you can be aware of and remember the experience of deep sleep. It requires a good amount of ... not sure what word to use... building up of the familiarity of being in a state of awareness. You are always aware but not knowingly. If that makes sense. Speaking from personal experience there have been times while intentionally meditating that I have watched thoughts turn into dreams. That is how I know that dreams and thoughts are made of the same mind stuff. And that the amount of control we have over our thoughts and dreams in little to none. We can disregard our thoughts and in doing so remove the hold they have on our true self. Awareness/ Consciousness. I have also experienced deep sleep on a couple of occasions. What is it like? I’ll tell you exactly. Time moves differently, it may seem like an hour but three have gone by. There is no mind activity at all. Just peace. What does it look like? There is infinite space. It looks like deep space, no objects to perceive. But it is also like deep space in that although it appears to be dark it is actually filled with the light of consciousness. It only appears to be dark because there are no objects for consciousness to reflect on. This is what Vedanta calls the state of potential, and that the waking and dreaming worlds actually arise from this state. I have to agree because I have seen the dream world rise from a point in this infinite space and envelope my perceptions and instantly I was within a dream. On another occasion I was able to... again not sure what word to use... move back and withdraw from the dream world and experience a wall or veil that separated the dream world from my self and I found I was outside the dream and was able to move in and out of it slowly like putting your head around a corner and seeing what Is there and moving it back and veiling it again. Sometimes I don’t know if I’m asleep and dreaming or awake and thinking it is that similar. We just forget it most of the time because it’s something we have been experiencing our entire lives and we train our minds to disregard the common. So why don’t we experience deep sleep? You do, you just don’t remember.

@ravindramurthy3486

3 жыл бұрын

Hello Sean: You write: "The response to “How do you know you slept well? “ would be given by checking memory for how many times did I wake up? The truth is this. It is another experience that is so common that it is very rarely remembered. Our minds forget it and disregard the experience of deep sleep 99.9% of the time." Please tell me: 1. How can you form memory in the absence of perception, feeling or thought, which is the haul mark of the state of sleep. 2. As far as universal human experience goes - no one experiences "mind" in sleep. So where is the question of "minds forgetting that experience" as you write? Thanks.

@seangraddy5068

3 жыл бұрын

@@ravindramurthy3486 Those are good questions. Thoughts are not needed for perception or experiencing. Memory may be recalled as a thought but thought isn’t needed to experience something and store it. Where are memories stored? I don’t know. Someone else may though. Thinking is not needed for anything other than thinking. Thoughts are nothing more than our imagination being used to solve problems or running on auto if that makes sense. We give them too much credit for being something they’re not. Feeling with the body is also not needed for you to be aware that something is going on. But there is something that is aware of everything that is or isn’t going on. Weather it’s a thought or a physical sensation or a lack there of. That awareness doesn’t need a body or a mind to be. In deep sleep the awareness that you fundamentally are. Without a body or mind is still aware. It “sees” without eyes. There is no thought, body, or anything. Just a void and peace. What is aware of it? Just awareness. And that awareness still perceives. I feel like I’m typing gibberish. Sorry. So what remembers that experience? I’m not sure. I remember being in that state But while in it there’s just existing. It’s not until something happens that I realize that I’ve been in deep sleep. It’s like this. There is no time, there is no body, there is no thought. There’s no emotion. Just being. And somehow Experiencing still occurs. Then out of the void something arises and moves through it and I find myself suddenly full of physical and mental perceptions. There’s a world and a body and a mind. I startle and find myself lying in my bed. What happened? I was aware in deep sleep somehow and “saw” the dream world created and was immersed into it and experiencing this sudden shift from deep sleep to a dream I woke up. What is the mind? What are thoughts? Are they the same to you? Is the mind the combination of thoughts and feelings? Does it include memories? We are not our minds. We exist without it. The mind can not exist without you though. It occurs within you. You experience the mind. But are not it. Will finish later.

@seangraddy5068

3 жыл бұрын

@@ravindramurthy3486 that first bit was probably a bit much. Short answer to question 1. Perceiving still occurs without thoughts or a body. I just remembered something. In Advaita Vedanta they say that the three states are states of mind not consciousness. Waking is a waking state of mind and body. Dreaming is the body is asleep but the mind is still active. Deep sleep the body and mind are at rest. Consciousness , the true self is aware of all of them and at all times present. This can be experienced. Why do I only remember a few occasions of all states of mind?Why don’t people in general remember more? I wonder if it’s about cultivating being purely awareness. First realizing what we are and are not in our experience. Then once you separate out awareness alone you see everything else as a happening within your experience of being. At that point it’s about stabilizing and cultivating that realization. Less mind “ thoughts and the random emotions created by the thinking mind.” Creating more openness for awareness to just be aware. Seeing things for what they are, not what we think they are. Hearing what is said and not what we think is being said. Watching the body and mind slip away into states of sleep and remaining pure awareness. Fundamentally we are not these bodies or minds. We have simply confused ourselves with the body mind complex. And have forgotten that we are awareness alone experiencing all that is occurring. Answer to question 2. If the mind is only thoughts and emotions then for sure there is no mind in deep sleep. How is perception possible? Awareness alone still perceives. How do I remember that experience of deep sleep? Perhaps by being aware throughout all three states of the body mind. Deep sleep to dream to awake. Don’t think it wasn’t startling. This is the first time I’ve mentioned it to anyone other than my wife. Might be why I’m rambling. Have you watched any Swami Sarvapriananda? Check out the introduction to Advaita Vedanta series he did. It describes everything perfectly.

@seangraddy5068

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheSoteriologist you are correct in saying that direct experience is the only way to prove any of these teachings. Which is why they can only point to the truth. Some internal recognition of the truth may pull someone to the teachings and keep their attention directed to them, but they are only words. Direct experience is sought and needed for validation. I agree with your assessment of the forgetting process. I would say forgetting and remembering are processes of the mind and that awareness/ consciousness alone can neither remember nor forget. So what remembers the events of deep sleep? Remembering waking and dreaming states are common and processes of the mind. But how do I then remember the experience of deep sleep? I’m sure there are swamis and monks who know the answer. Maybe you do? Thank you for your insights.

🌻

This is what my direct experiences have thaught me. There is this Human You and the Higher You. This Human You is a mental product, it's not even real, while the Higher You is more real than this Human You but it's still not the ultimate thing, the ultimate thing is the Inner Self, the Higher Self, the True Self, the Atman, the Spark of God. It appeared to me in the form of a sphere of Golden Light, people call it the Inner Sun, that's how it actually looks. When we go to sleep, the physical body goes to sleep, the Higher You awakens. The Higher you is the one who planned your earthly life, it travels to other realms and it communicates with other beings. Sometimes this Human You passes through and this is how we get to have out of body experiences and lucid dreams. You are both the Human You, the Higher You and the Higher Self, it's just while in this body, you do not remember. Deep sleep is only for the physical body, it is the deepest state in which the body recovers itself, full relaxation. Of course, most people lack the experience and they only talk using mental concepts and being limited by the material world so for them, deep sleep means no awareness or awareness of absence which both are not true. Oh, you are very much AWARE when you got o sleep, except that maybe not this Human You but the Higher You for sure. I have over 400 out of body experiences.

The "yes" refers to feeling rested, not to the experince of sleeping deeply.

To say that one is always aware of ones innate peace and happiness, but sometimes doesn´t know it seems to me to be a matter of belief. Perhaps you are not aware of your innate peace and happiness when you don't know it. How can you tell?

@curiosity_saved_the_cat

3 жыл бұрын

Peace / happiness are innate to the 'Self' like wetness is innate to water, it's all that one can be aware of. So that's how you can tell. Only the movement of the waves on the water may appear to distract one from seeing wetness, but it never is not wet. During deep sleep there seem to be no waves to distract, so what remains can only be peace and happiness.

@patrikhultin15

3 жыл бұрын

@@curiosity_saved_the_cat The starting point of my comment was that Rupert said that you do not experience peace and happiness all the time. You claim that you do. I don't experience that, so that claim is apparently not true for everyone. Besides - even if you have experienced peace and happiness so far - how do you know that you will in the future? perhaps the innate nature will change. Your claims seems just like a dogma or a fantasy to me. It is just as possible that peace and happiness are passing phenomena in the mind - just like anger and hatred. Perhaps there is no innate nature - just becoming. How can you prove that that is not the case?

@patrikhultin15

3 жыл бұрын

@@curiosity_saved_the_cat Btw - I might just as well claim that you experience hatred, anger and dissatisfaction all the time, that that is your innate nature - you just don't know it. That is of course silly, but it is the same sort of claim that you do.

@curiosity_saved_the_cat

3 жыл бұрын

@@patrikhultin15 Any word used to describe what is being pointed to can be seen as dogma, whether it's peace happiness or unconditional love and absolute freedom. So you're totally right indeed, it could be called anything. It only seems like some words are less misleading than others. The attempt is to point to the illusory nature of separation, without restricting the experience of separation in any way.

Deep sleep is called the doorway to mass consciousness and enlightenment is called "deep sleep while awake" (Nirvakalpa Samadhi). Is the void in the middle of the Zero (deep sleep) really empty? Maybe it is beyond awake state comprehension, as in pure consciousness? After all something is derived from it, if only being refreshed in the morning?

Has anyone here read any Nisargadatta or Ramesh Balsekar. That’s probably a silly question.But anyway they both refer to the Absolute as being prior to Consciousness.I don’t understand what they are pointing too. It can’t be an experience per se. Does anyone have a way of explaining what prior to consciousness is. Has anyone got any good metaphors or analogies ? I hope everyone is well.

❤️❤️🙏🙏

But what about anaesthesia is the also the awareness of non existence ?

spira says that at night you experience nothing because the human is sleeping so consciousness is alone with itself. But since consciousness is the whole universe, shouldnt consciousness still be busy with the rest of the universe when i (the human im aware of) go to bed?

@azathoth4473

Жыл бұрын

It's the same Ignorance that cause it in individual level or in cosmic level, the simple difference is given in Advaita Atmān and Brahman, Individual and Absolute, Ultimately They Are Same.

When someone says they slept well they are referring to the feeling of being refreshed in the morning. At least that’s what I’d be really referring to because there’s no memory left of any experience in deep sleep. And the notion of awareness of absence is just self-contradictory. If you’d be really aware of absence it wouldn’t really be absence would it? Sorry I don’t like to be so critical usually. I think Rupert can be a great teacher, but I’d like him to appear a little more humble sometimes, not so know-it-all. I suggest you listen to Bernardo Kastrup, a friend of his, in case you haven’t already. He has some good thinks to say with regards to the consciousness-only ontology

@ManfredBrea31

3 жыл бұрын

He’s talking about the presence of awareness in the absence of mind, “prior” to mind seemingly turning eternity into time through thoughts. Namaste Much ❤️

@franky7388

2 жыл бұрын

Well then what one would say about meditation one is absolutely aware we one goes into deep meditation

The fact that you know that you slept, is the awareness itself. Therefore, the Self/Consciousness /or the Awareness is ever present, never sleeps, never dies.

rupert’s argument is nonsense. “i slept well” is just stating that you feel rested in the morning after waking up.

While you're in deep sleep it's the absence of awareness it's not the awareness of absence until you wake up. So then what happens to this consciousness when you go to sleep and never wake up? AKA death

@user-jo2zb7pt4n

6 ай бұрын

Υou need to see other videos of Rupert to understand why you dont get it...

Dear All, Please kindly give me the explaination as follow: According to Mr. Rupert Spira, Awareness is always experiencing at present and knowing objects. Therefore, awareness should know my breathing in and out during my deep sleep (breathing is still object in deep sleep) same like i am in awake state. However, i am not aware any my breath at all during deep sleep. So where is awareness which should know objects. Please kindly let me understand this situation. Thank you very much!

What if I said, “I assume I slept well because I have no memory of waking up multiple times in the night”. ?

@luismoref

3 жыл бұрын

Is this true? The only condition for you to know your sleep is by measuring how many times you woke up? I believe that you are aware that you were aware of something besides it, during these past 8 hours before waking up.

The experience of rest is only enhanced with the mind and sensation, if you eliminate that, is only deep sleep or rest without it. If people were told that tonight when they go to sleep they never gonna wake up again, the majority will be terrified of falling asleep. Ultimate experience is not non duality, it is the enhancement of non duality as duality. Reality would be incomplete without diversity. God Himself is a unity in a diversity.

I only sleep well if i wet the bed

So he's saying we should be afraid of death?

@kolarz2128

3 жыл бұрын

Haha exactly!

The 'Deep-Sleep' present the Night-consciousness, Night-bodies. When We move our Day-consciousness, to the Night-bodies, one by one, our physical body become Night-body. (We dont remember any thing from the Night-bodies/Deep-Sleep) REM-sleep present, the 'transfer-body', dreams, OBE, NDE, ghosts coma. So, We are always Here and Now, and our consciousness too. The 'Night' present a Circuit, some of the Night-bodies are old, and some are young, compare to our physical body, which is our primary developing-body. We dont develop at night, it is rest and repair. When We leave our physical body permanent, then We also stay in the Night-bodies, just much longer, which means, that We stay 'above' about the same time as We stayed in our last physical body. (We stay max.100 year)

The guy who asked was right. In retrospect you can say u had deep sleep-because of no dreaming or you feel good - bec. Of good ‚rest‘ - but there is no experience of deep sleep- because - if this game is ‚an illusion‘-sleep is it also.... (...part of the game called live....or simcity....it seems as if you send the pc to sleep .... and continue the game next day - how much do you perceive of tour gamecharacter when the pc is shut down? How can zu know his sleep, when his sleep is a Code of the game? And the pc is shut down?)

If you died and didn’t wake up again you wouldn’t know how your sleep was. Therefore it’s the absence of awareness tho, no? That’s why people fear death, not deep sleep

@bildencarlia6924

3 жыл бұрын

If you have experienced deep meditation then you would have experienced too the absence of physcicality but not death. It is a well known fact to those who have elaborated in meditation that awareness is there when physcicality is not and the same will happen when death comes-of course for those who are still not aware of all these death seems terrifying !

@dipper888bp

3 жыл бұрын

@@bildencarlia6924 how do you you know you’re not dreaming all of this now? You don’t. It’s all beliefs and theories.

@bildencarlia6924

3 жыл бұрын

@@dipper888bp Exactly ! We are all dreaming right now-this waking state is the dream state of another waking state and so on....this is exactly what the spiritual teachers mean when they say that your ultimate goal should be MUkTI-the ultimate awakening-the freedom of birth-death-god and all limitations of your seperate self !

@toddboothbee1361

3 жыл бұрын

Some people fear deep sleep.

@~5:00 So then, if that is the case, why would young children fight going to sleep at a specific time?

@luismoref

3 жыл бұрын

Children has an development ego, they are learning how to function in the world and they want the most of it. My 2 and half years old niece when wakes up is the time of the day where she is more peaceful and calm.

@joe86569

3 жыл бұрын

because they are not sleepy lol

@heartsofgoldenrod

3 жыл бұрын

@@joe86569 I believe you’ve answered it. I never dealt with this as a parent, as I’d just let my baby stay up until they were ready to sleep...no fuss, but you’d likely have to have a somewhat flexible schedule to do it.

@joe86569

3 жыл бұрын

@@heartsofgoldenrod yes may be forcing to sleep is the issue. whenever i try hard to sleep it fails i stay till 4am in the morning. youtube or watching a tv show is the issue. whenever i read a book i fall asleep soon.

If someone calls your name in deep sleep, do you respond?

@spirallove5946

3 жыл бұрын

how loud are they calling my name?

You cannot say it's an experience when there's nothing being experienced. You can't watch a TV program if the TV screen is off. So to say you experience yourself because you wake up and see that time has passed makes no sense. Like saying i experienced the TV program by looking at the TV being off during the duration of said program. To have an experience something need to happen, like a TV program. Nothingness is not an experience, it's nothing.

@keithoyoung34

3 жыл бұрын

Precisely

@kolarz2128

3 жыл бұрын

I think that no experience would not be even "nothing", there are no words for it

While in deep sleep, you rest in peace.

I'm still stuck on this too. "I slept well" refers to the fact that I didn't wake several times during the night. I am not self aware while unconscious. Respectfully, Rupert just saying I am does not make it so.

@augusto4359

3 жыл бұрын

yes, i dont understand rupert point here to be honest. we say that we slept well when we wake up feeling restored and well, that's it. the question "what is it that is aware that theres nothing there in deep sleep?" seems a weird question. we only realize that we were not "self aware" afterwards, when in the waking state. he just made an assertion that we are experiencing absence, i not even sure wheter that mekes sense or not be honest.

@hydr0lith

3 жыл бұрын

I've always been a bit stuck by this as well. To me, "I slept well" means I'm feeling rested right now and therefore must have slept well. But it occurred to me that if we weren't aware during deep sleep, then we wouldn't wake up when we heard a loud noise. I've never heard Rupert say that, which surprises me as it seems like a straightforward answer.

@cat_lover007

3 жыл бұрын

You are always aware regardless of what you are doing.

@danielpaulson8838

3 жыл бұрын

Agreed. When someone doesn’t sleep well, they toss and turn, get up frequently, don’t actually fall asleep, etc. You get up tired, not feeling ready to go. We aren’t aware of when we sleep, else we would be awake. Seems a bit off, this one does.

Consciousness is always there. Even in deep sleep. I believe the question should refer to awareness not to consciousness. Are you aware, do you have perception of yourself during sleep?

So sleep held the answer all along 'alone and apart from the world we experience peace' - why do we then wake up and go in search of fulfilment in activity engaging the world? Insanity?

The problem for me is I can accept deep sleep is unremembered awareness - but in what sense is it self-aware? Shouldn't Rupert be able to assert "you are aware that you are aware"? Wouldn't that be the authentic experience of deep sleep at least for the adept?

@azathoth4473

Жыл бұрын

You're aware everytime it's just minds occupies you, Consciousness fools itself

This is the one thorn in the side of the otherwise remarkably coherent “ramana- type” advita. The sleep explanation of apparently ever present awareness does not stand up to scrutiny. The explanation relies on lazy language about awareness of sleep and a misunderstanding about what it means to have felt you slept well. The irony is that 99% of ramana type advita (correctly imo) directs you to trust your in moment awareness as the only source of verifiable truth. Yet when it comes to deep sleep, there is a u turn and one must suddenly draw on a (phantom) memory of an experience just gone to verify awareness WAS apparently allways there. In reality, its actually the present state of feeling refreshed without memory of dreams or intermittent waking (in that present morning state) that tells you - you slept well. But of course this explanation would not support the idea of ever present awareness -so it is avoided at all costs!

@SaulFein

3 жыл бұрын

I know I slept well because I feel good in the morning and not tired this true, but if I contemplate this I feel that there was no lapse in continuity of being. I may not be conscience but I am aware. When a loud sound or someone shakes in sleep, we regain consciousness, which implies awareness never left otherwise what would cause us to wake up?

@Progenitor1979

3 жыл бұрын

It's all weird to me but tbo your version makes even less sense...

@SaulFein

3 жыл бұрын

@@Progenitor1979 That is fair, I could be way off. I really don't know as much as I once thought. What do you think causes us to wake up from deep sleep when a loud noise occurs?

@Progenitor1979

3 жыл бұрын

@@SaulFein I like your perspective. Your question 'what would cause us to wake up?' is excellent. We are always there, even without perception. It was actually the original comment I objected to. Not accepting that their is an 'Awareness of absence' means accepting that a kind of non-existance punctuates our lives and somehow leaves us magically rested...

@ultrafeel-tv

3 жыл бұрын

My 'solution' to this problem is as follows...: If there were no awareness during deep sleep, wouldn't we experience sleep as lying on the bed, getting more and more tired (falling asleep) and then just suddenly getting more alert and awake again? But it's actually not what we experience! Now after you read this example you should see it: We actually KNOW that we experience 'something or nothing' between the gradually getting more tired, and then waking up! Otherwise we wouldn't even talk about "sleeping" we would just say something like "relaxing".

If there is nothing to be aware, there is no awareness

@azathoth4473

Жыл бұрын

There is Awareness, you're just not aware enough

Yes, this is where the issue of "consciousness is everything" runs into a core problem. I'm not saying that the problem is unanswerable in principle, only that it is not answered by this video or Rupert's other videos where a similar question was asked. Perhaps the questioner was a bit intimidated or celebrity struck by the stage context, who knows, so let me be clear here. I don't have any experience in deep sleep that I am aware of. To reply to this that I may be having an experience anyway, but that I am just not aware of it is a fundamental contradiction. Because awareness IS consciousness. I cannot have a consciousness that I am not aware of, any more than I can have a pain that doesn't hurt. To the question "how do you know that you slept well" the answer is simply because the body and mind feel refreshed, and thus "slept well" is inferred...in fact, again, it is not known as a consciousness or an awareness. I don't want to give the impression that I am an enemy of the idea that consciousness is fundamental, but the deep sleep problem is a BIG problem for Rupert's worldview, imo. It's the same problem Bernardo Kastrup has with the claim that consciousness is everything. If one can subtract from consciousness everything to the point where it is no longer aware of itself even as consciousness (which is so... this is exactly what happens in deep sleep and anesthesia) then consciousness must rise up out of something that is more fundamental yet than consciousness. Consciousness may be the only thing that can rise from it, but it doesn't follow from this that it is absolutely identical with it.

@RahinSomaliREACT

2 жыл бұрын

But how do you know that you’ve had deep sleep?If there was no awareness in deep sleep then you would’ve not recognised that you’ve slept at all, itd be like you like being awake 24/7 without not knowing that you’ve slept because there isn’t awareness to recognise that. But that’s impossible we clearly know that we’ve slept and we either had dream or it was just black because awareness must of been there

@greensleeves7165

2 жыл бұрын

@@RahinSomaliREACT You simply infer that you've been asleep from environmental stimuli such as an alarm going off, light behind the curtains, or a reduction in the fatigue level of your mind or body. There is no consciousness there.

@RahinSomaliREACT

2 жыл бұрын

@@greensleeves7165 that is untrue you dont simply know that you were a sleep because of an alram clock or curtains. If you were in a dark room and slept then woke up in the same dark room without an alarm youd still know youre sleeping. all the things youve said are not needed to know that you were a sleep you just know that you've slept

@greensleeves7165

2 жыл бұрын

@@RahinSomaliREACT Well, I would infer that I slept because I went into the room to go to sleep. I would infer that I slept because I might now feel sleepy, or, if I slept a long time, because I now feel refreshed. None of this means there is any awareness in deep sleep.

@RahinSomaliREACT

2 жыл бұрын

@@greensleeves7165 yes you went into the room to go to sleep but how did you feel/remember that whilst you were a sleep there was "blank/darkness". You could not have had the knowledge that there was darkness after sleeping if you did not experience that. Its like knowing something without ever discovering it

I don’t think this has to be a big complicated deep discussion. When you deep sleep, you’re ‘unconscious’. You’re simply not aware of anything taking place. It’s no different than being drugged. To presuppose all this other stuff is just projecting and trying to force a philosophy to fit. Rupert does this from time to time where you can feel the ‘push’ behind it. It’s a forcing type energy rather than a leading, allowing. I like a lot of his talks but sometimes he goes too far to always ‘know’ and be right. I imagine this is a big challenge for guru types and upholding that image. ET is one of the only ones that seem beyond it and are ‘ok w/not knowing’...

Consciousness seems to be the act of prehension. There is a mystery to this act, for sure, but there is little sense in reifying consciousness as a thing-in-itself. Consciousness is "consciousness of". Because there is no prehension in deep sleep, there is no consciousness there. It really is not more complicated than that. Coma patients who have a degree of "consciousness" in coma do so because they are prehending at a low level, for example registering the voices of people around the bed.

I know that deep sleep is the awareness of absence. But I never look forward to going to sleep. I would much rather stay up, putzing about. What gives?

@whatsinaname1667

3 жыл бұрын

Mind is overactive.

@mikem3779

3 жыл бұрын

@@whatsinaname1667 that’s it, I think

اللَّهُ يَتَوَفَّى الْأَنْفُسَ حِينَ مَوْتِهَا وَالَّتِي لَمْ تَمُتْ فِي مَنَامِهَا ۖ فَيُمْسِكُ الَّتِي قَضَىٰ عَلَيْهَا الْمَوْتَ وَيُرْسِلُ الْأُخْرَىٰ إِلَىٰ أَجَلٍ مُسَمًّى ۚ إِنَّ فِي ذَٰلِكَ لَآيَاتٍ لِقَوْمٍ يَتَفَكَّرُونَ Allah takes away souls at the time of their death (the temporary death of sleep), and those who do not die during their sleep He withholds that upon which He has decreed death, but turns lose the other till a stated term. Surely, there are signs in this for a nation who contemplate. From the Holy Quran 42 Alzumer

Dualistic

Summary: Q: Am I aware during sleep? Where is my consciousness during sleep? Rupert: What is your experience of deep sleep? What is it that's aware there is nothing there during deep sleep? What enables you to know you slept well? Is deep sleep the awareness of absence or the absence of awareness? (3:50) If it were Absence of Awareness you would not be able to answer "yes" to "Did you sleep well?" The reason you can answer yes is it is peaceful there. Do you feel you are approaching non-existence / nihilation when you go to bed? Answer: No. In sleep you know your essential nature of peace/happiness. When you awake the peace/happiness is eclipsed by thoughts/perceptions.

@brynbstn

3 жыл бұрын

I've just started watching Rupert Spira's videos here on YT. Very impressed by his clear logic based on observation. However, here his logical rigor breaks down. 1) it's only upon awaking that one deduces the absence of awareness (regular waking awareness), during deep sleep you are not aware, so you cannot be aware of absence 2) He deduces that sleep is the presence of peaceful awareness by the fact that you don't fear sleep, that you seek sleep; but the facts are - at a certain age children going to sleep is like an nihilation - it's the end of the waking consciousness, also some people can't sleep well and they don't look forward to sleep. There's no observational evidence that in sleep you are experiencing your essential nature of peace/happiness. All we have is the state of awareness as you fall asleep and the state of awareness upon waking.

@brynbstn

3 жыл бұрын

Even so - his clear, lucid reasoning based on razor-sharp, brutally honest (usually) observation is compelling and inspiring

I am only aware of the "nothingness" experience during deep sleep when I am in the wake state. However, I am NOT aware of the nothingness during the sleep itself. By that, I am also not aware of being aware during sleep. I am still ooen to the idea of eternal awareness but this rupert guy isnt helping.