There are A LOT of comments here so I responded to as many of them as I could in the Patrick Replies video over on the second channel kzread.info/dash/bejne/ipWEsLescrq8kdI.html

@GreenEggGamer

19 күн бұрын

I think the feeling of Fun is the most important thing about Mario. So a Movie about Mario should be fun. thats the feeling a Mario property Is at it's soul.. and whatever you say about the 2 mario movies they are fun in their own ways. fun bad or nonstop rolercoaster kinda fun. so it their own way they are both good adaptastions for mario

@nerdstark9002

5 күн бұрын

Hi. How did you make an hour video on this subject and never mentioned Arcane? Seriously, watch it, if you haven't already.

@SmallSpoonBrigade

13 сағат бұрын

I think the Postal movie is more or less the most faithful movie adaptation that I've ever seen of a video game.

@LegnaiaUnderground

9 минут бұрын

I'd like to hear your thoughts about Fullmetal Alchemist (2003) and Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood (2009). I think the latter is better overall (it's a way more faithful adaptation of the source manga, but still cut out various scenes), but the first one (which took the plot to a different conclusion!) is still worth watching IMO, and it's a shame that it's completely overshadowed by the other one.

As someone who has spent twenty years trying to get an adaptation of his work made (all the while watching people spend tens of millions of dollars to not succeed--fun times) I've often had to ask myself the very question you pose here. Why? I think there's an answer you didn't cover, but which helps prove your point. Films reach a different, and larger, audience--so one of my goals in adaptation is to provide a way for people who don't generally read epic fantasy to experience my stories. I've had this experience with DUNE--a novel which can be difficult for some readers. The excellent adaptations let so many of us share with friends and family something we love. They now GET it, having seen these films. This is because while a novel and a film are very different, they are often seeking similar emotional responses. Being in awe of the grand vistas of Arakis--or feeling the heartbreak of Sam and Frodo's journey--works in both mediums. But for video games...this isn't the case. My children, who love Mario games, were thrilled to take their mother (who does not enjoy gaming) to the film so she could see what they love. Except, there's no way for the film to give her their same emotional attachment they have--as the beauty of the gameplay is a fundamentally interactive experience. Anyway, another excellent video. --Brandon

@samcyphers2902

Ай бұрын

Since you're here, Mistborn is an awesome series. You took many narrative risks with the storyline. I just loved, loved, loved Hero of Age's ending. It is sad, but Sazed was my favorite character in the trilogy. So, it's nice to see things work out for him.

@mr.picklegames

Ай бұрын

Oh, hello Brandon! Love your books.

@lukedelrosario5881

Ай бұрын

@@samcyphers2902Why is it sad that Sazed is your favorite character? He’s mine too!

@srlong1123

Ай бұрын

⁠​⁠@@lukedelrosario5881 they’re saying the ending is sad, not that Sazed being their favorite character is sad

@juanbarona5860

Ай бұрын

Really need to get back to reading Well of Ascension, but I don't have all the time in the world these days. A pity since I loved the first book.

Another point about Akira: the movie was made while the manga was still in production, and the ending of the movie informed a lot of how the author wanted to shape the manga. It's an adaptation that shaped it's source material.

@WhiskyCanuck

Ай бұрын

That's interesting - I didn't know that. It does make me think of 2001 where the novel & film were written & produced in parallel and the book actually came out after the movie opened. They also diverged a bit as Clarke & Kubric had differences in opinion, and also there were limits to what could be done on film at the time.

@TheLeftistOwl

Ай бұрын

@@WhiskyCanuck yeah. I think Super Eyepatch Wolf covered the Akira thing in his video about Akira

@CaptainRaccoonWhitly

Ай бұрын

The same can be said of Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind. The Manga and the film veer in different directions, but the Manga also was finished 10 years after the movie. Of course it was gonna be different, it had more time to tell its story!

@robbybevard8034

Ай бұрын

Same with Scott Pilgrim. It's really hard to tell where the movie and book influenced each other since the last volumes were made concurrently.

@heartbeatcity23

Ай бұрын

Just like Scott Pilgrim The movie vs the manga

"There are many books based on the subject, but strangely no movies based on those books " Nicholas Cage's 2002 Adaptation is sitting right there.

@IAMA1

Ай бұрын

Was thinking the same thing lol

@Adamnme01

Ай бұрын

That's the joke

@prenticeclark1454

Ай бұрын

Yes I thought of that movie immediately too. But was it intentional irony on Patrick’s part, not mentioning it? Because the joke actually works either way

@mercury2mercury

Ай бұрын

i was about to say lmao!!

@anmolt3840051

Ай бұрын

What movie?

The 1993 Mario film tells us not to open a film 14 days before Jurassic Park and featuring dinosaurs if you don't have dinosaurs to match Jurassic Park.

@SmallSpoonBrigade

14 сағат бұрын

Personally, I've watched the 1993 Mario movie more times than I've watched the 2023 Mario movie. They took some risks and the movie was goofy AF, but it was kind of fun. It's a shame that they removed the scene that actually explains the whole thing. The 2023 movie was fun,but the only reason that I'd ever want to watch it again is to look for the various Easter eggs. It's nice that this video isn't taking it on faith that the 2023 movie is better than the 1993 one. I personally kind of liked the 1993 movie, but I also liked Buckaroo Bonzai, Tank Girl, Waterworld, Hackers and Johnny Mnemonic.

one thing that is worth mentioning is that Detective Pikachu chose an obscure narrative driven game to adapt, if they had taken the same path with Mario it would have been one of the RPG games, or perhaps Luigi's Mansion (which I think would be a better narrative, Luigi has the character/humanity/flaws that Mario lacks)

@TheNoviceVillage

Ай бұрын

Ah, another BDG fan, I see...

@MatthewStevensOrMattDave

Ай бұрын

Between the anime and Pokemon Adventures manga, there's plenty of narrative to mine out of the core RPGs. Like, RPGs tend to be narratively rich. The main games just aren't suited to a movie because those narratives are episodic. You can see this with the animated pokemon films, they're all just long episodes of the TV show and the best ones are just really good episodes.

@marshallw1902

Ай бұрын

Plus, even though the game wasn't as polished, the novelty of making a movie was there.

@turbochargedfilms

Ай бұрын

>"obscure" >Pokemon stop

@torstenatterberg5788

Ай бұрын

​@@turbochargedfilmsthey mean that detective pikachu is relatively obscure for a pokemon game

Great video Patrick and team. I was the designer / creator of Fruit Ninja, which obviously had absolutely ZERO story or character development. After the huge success of the game, (and as I was leaving the project), a push started to get film and TV adaptions made. For some at the studio, getting an adaptation made the whole thing more legitimate, like the property had "made it". Games were still struggling to be taken seriously despite being such a huge global business, but film and TV didn't have that problem. But given how narratively thin the source material was, new characters and story started getting added into the game specifically to support those future jumps to film and TV (and merch I guess). This was very... divisive. It was like having to adapt a film into an existing game... except the film didn't exist yet. It was a time.

@completeregret3513

Ай бұрын

Some random thoughts your comment inspired: 1. I played your games a lot as a child, so like. Thank you? I think? 2. It always bothers me how quickly properties go from one medium to another, with seemingly no thought put into them. I feel like Fruit Ninja worked BECAUSE of its simplicity and lack of story, not despite it. And trying to add a plot feels strange, like the game's existence isn't "enough". Of course, then you have the opposite problem of people making these intense, convoluted stories and trying to shove them into a game (Hello Neighbor is the best example I can think of right now), which just dilutes everything to the point that it might as well not have a story. 3. Lmao what if they made a cookie clicker movie

@TacticusPrime

Ай бұрын

Amazing. I guess if Angry Birds can have movies...

@nykcarnsew2238

Ай бұрын

@@completeregret3513I’ve been thinking for a while we really ought to divide video games into multiple mediums, it really doesn’t make sense to talk about Fruit Ninja as though it were the same type of thing as The Last of Us

@turtleanton6539

Ай бұрын

It was🎉

@turtleanton6539

Ай бұрын

​@@nykcarnsew2238there are genres

Learning the Max Headroom people directed the 90s Mario Movie explains so much, honestly.

@Calvin_Coolage

Ай бұрын

Shame they were both absolute assholes to the cast and crew.

@Charles12

Ай бұрын

@@Calvin_Coolage they were also victims of circumstance when all their pre-production work was overthrown by a script rewrite commissioned by Disney to bring in a bigger budget. even the actors complained about that, but most would say the directors were too inexperienced and in over their heads to adapt to that.

@Calvin_Coolage

Ай бұрын

@@Charles12 That's fair. I always forget Disney had their hands in the kitchen for that movie.

@Charles12

Ай бұрын

@@Calvin_Coolage not surprised you forgot, they wouldn't want their brand on how much they f'd up such a lucrative IP

@anthonyrowland9072

Ай бұрын

@@Charles12Secret Galaxy has a good vi about the entire production. kzread.info/dash/bejne/qm2Zu8SKotvSiKQ.html WAY too many rewrites, they were writing lines on the fly while filming.

17:14 Pretty funny how you confirm the point you make right after this. Spider-Man is traditionally college-age or older. He only spent a very small amount of time in high school in the comics, they moved on very quickly. But because so many adaptions of Spider-Man have him as a teenager, you’re right, people clapped for what they recognised.

@tvsonicserbia5140

Ай бұрын

Also his personality in the high school comics is nothing like Tom Holland, he's more like an introverted teenage Tony Stark. Tom Holland is most similar to Ultimate(comic) and Spectacular

@ShockwaveFPSStudios

Ай бұрын

@@tvsonicserbia5140Yeah, he started out as a dick because Steve Ditko was a dick.

Akira the movie didn't cut out the end of the manga, it just predated that ending. Otomo was making both at once, like Miyazaki did with Nausicaä, and both manga versions kept coming out after the movies were released.

@thomasffrench3639

Ай бұрын

My question is how did he handle both directing a film with some of the best animation while also writing one of the best regarded manga of all time?

@robbybevard8034

Ай бұрын

@@thomasffrench3639 He basically didn't make the manga during that period. From 82-86 he did a chapter every two weeks, for one volume every 8 months. The first four volumes in three years. The fifth volume took from 86-89, three years while the movie was being made with zero chapters for a year and a half. Then the final volume he resumed the original pace and took about a year to do 23 chapters.

@thomasffrench3639

Ай бұрын

@@robbybevard8034 Oh Okay. Still pretty impressive, but that sounds significantly easier to handle.

@MidlifeCrisisJoe

Ай бұрын

The Nausicaa example is even wilder too, since the manga essentially started as a storyboard pitch that Miyazaki made as a proof of concept for investors in order to make the movie, since he was an animator before he was a mangaka but had gone independent after completing his work on the Heidi animated series, but once the movie was made he found it too limiting to the many ideas he had for the story and thus kept going with the manga until it reached a conclusion he was more satisfied with. It proved to be a good decision in the end, since Nausicaa's success is what got Studio Ghibli off the ground, but for a while there in the 80's I'm guessing Miyazaki must've been the most overworked animator in Japan keeping up with all of the films he was making AND writing and drawing a manga, and that's a pretty high bar to clear.

@thomasffrench3639

Ай бұрын

@@MidlifeCrisisJoe I don't know if overworked is the correct term. More like Workaholic.

My favorite experience watching an adaptation was Jupiter Ascending - which is not an adaptation. But I was so confident in the theater that it had to be someone trying to capture the immense scope and all their favorite moments from a decade long comic book, and that all these grandiose nothing scenes had been iconic parts of another work. And, then, it was none of those things.

@caffetiel

Ай бұрын

Jupiter Ascending straight fucks though

@TacticusPrime

Ай бұрын

Co-signed. I was personally sure it had to be some kind of YA adaptation. I mean the werewolf-angel-spacecop-rollerskater boyfriend character? The weird family drama and wealth that the protagonist is thrust into? Archetypical.

@turbochargedfilms

Ай бұрын

So having the Wachowski names attached to it wasnt explanation enough for you?

@joeuchill2972

Ай бұрын

I mean, the three prior Wachowski movies were adaptations (if I remember correctly). Cloud Atlas, Speed Racer, V for Vendetta@@turbochargedfilms

@joeuchill2972

Ай бұрын

That's the other thing that made me think it. It just had more plot than most movies. Like, you see where the ends each comic issue or book chapter should have been.@@TacticusPrime

While I understand your reasoning, I do think there is a fundamental appeal - and actual merit in creating a Mario movie. As you noted, people love the iconography of the Mario games. Ideally, a movie adaptation would exchange one element served better through games (interactivity) to enhance the element largely absent from the games - an engaging narrative. You correctly noted that the Mario characters and storyline are generally paper thin, but that's exactly why games like Paper Mario, Mario & Luigi, and Mario RPG resonated so deeply - because they flesh out the world of Mario & friends and craft a more engaging narrative. Admittedly, even the RPG Mario games only go so far, but the fact that these games are so enduringly popular tells us that players want something more which the platformers aren't providing. A movie series could serve the same function on an even greater level. It doesn't need to be a commentary on the act of playing Mario to prove worthwhile. While you have a valid point regarding film adaptations of games which already endeavor to provide a more 'cinematic' experience such as Uncharted, the Mario games don't now and almost certainly never will fit into that category. Nintendo began as a toy company and its priority will always be on gameplay first, even in more lore rich series like The Legend of Zelda. Case in point, the basic premise or storyline of the Mario games doesn't even exist within the game itself, but instead is relegated to flavor text in the game's manual. The video games use 'narrative' as a mere pretense to establish a premise on which they can craft an addictive gameplay loop. The appeal in seeing a game like Mario adapted to film is simply the potential in transforming an 'icon' into a full fledged character. I think it's actually fairly similar to the appeal of comic book adaptations. Where comics are static images on a page which audiences desire to see 'move', the Mario characters may similarly be viewed as 'static' representations - icons with personality, but little else. Where film adaptations of comics interpolate the imagery between panels, an adaptation of a series like Mario the primary appeal is animating the character. Where comics have dynamic characters and static images, video games like Mario have dynamic images, but static characters. In that sense, both mediums can benefit from film adaptations. While something akin to Gerwig's Barbie, which comments on the relationship between the IP and the audience in some way is certainly a valid approach, I don't think it's the only worthwhile way to adapt a series as sparse in story as Mario. Simply creating a narrative and expanding static icons into fully realized characters has as much benefit in my opinion as does animating the static panels of a comic book. Also worth noting - I haven't actually seen the Mario movie yet. I'm commenting on the creation of a Mario movie on a conceptual level as per the subject of the video.

@numberpi5473

Ай бұрын

Yeah, I felt this video was kind of a waste of time. Patrick seems to miss the whole point of adapting a game to a movie format - there ARE people who can't/won't play games but will enjoy that same property in another format. I'd wager those people are actually the crushing majority. Patrick goes too far insisting the movie loses something and has no soul and is just a series of corporate-approved celebrations, and never for a single second it occurs to him that the movie captures the *fun* of a Mario game in story-telling format for people who won't play the game to feel the same fun through gameplay.

@DichotomousRex

Ай бұрын

You would lose that wager tho. And that's the point. People who don't play the games DON'T want Mario as a character. They just... watch other stuff.

@lukebytes5366

Ай бұрын

Think about it the other way around too. Even if i wasn't that interested in the star wars movies, being able to fight people with lightsabers is awesome and the videogame adaptations generally execute that very well. People like (generally) faithful adaptations because seeing a franchise travel from it's home medium with it's mechanics intact is inherently interesting, regardless of whether the final product is interesting in of itself.

@numberpi5473

Ай бұрын

@@DichotomousRex nah you're wrong. People don't know what they want to watch until it's served to them. You can't possibly think the Mario movie was that huge because EVERYONE who watched it is "playing the games".

@gabrieljimenez7845

Ай бұрын

@@numberpi5473 There are many reasons why someone would go watch a movie outside the movie itself. Especially a family movie.

Hey that’s my voice and video at 2:12! Thanks for the inclusion in your great video. Just discovered your channel because someone told me about you using the clip. All the best man

Hi Patrick. As one of those vicious academics in adaptation studies I happily welcome this venture into our field. One of my frustrations with the field is that most of the core literature is written by literature experts that wanted to do something with film, and it often shows a severe deficiency in filmmaking language, so it's nice to see it approached by someone with a more film focused background.

@langleymneely

Ай бұрын

OMG! THANK YOU! I was just about to post something similar! Not from the perspective of an academic but from a film student that was once an academic.

@turbochargedfilms

Ай бұрын

Please academically prove that the 2014 Need For Speed movie starring Aaron Paul is one of the greatest video game adaptations because it really is

@JarrodBaniqued

Ай бұрын

Anyone seen the 2002 Great Gatsby film adaptation “G”? I feel like that should be ripe for study

@PasCorrect

Ай бұрын

@@turbochargedfilms Better than Takashi Miike's "Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney"? Colour me intrigued...

@Volvagia1927

Ай бұрын

I love both films and books, but everyone saying that adaptation can't make something better? They have NOT both read (B-) AND watched (A+) Fight Club.

Very recently, Denis Villeneuve said that adaptation is “an inherently violent process,” which really captured this issue perfectly to me. It’s so easy as fans to be so angry about bits of “unfaithfulness”, but going to a different medium means a whole new set of strengths and weaknesses. Truly faithful adaptions usually suck.

@thomasffrench3639

Ай бұрын

Well I whether a faithful adaptation can work or not completely depends on the source material. Godfather movies being faithful works where something like Catcher in the Rye would not

@blokey8

Ай бұрын

Speaking as someone who admires the novel much more than I like it (the very last beat was always a big "erk?" to me and I'm very glad Villeneuve and Spaights made the change they did), it's been great to get films which give me the core of the book in ways I enjoy more, but also fascinating to hear Villeneuve talk about the process. It's also been rather amusing to see Villeneuve, maker of cerebral and critically acclaimed films, discussed by the book purists as if he's McG.

@chimeron260

Ай бұрын

better than how Jodorowsky phrased it...

@robbybevard8034

Ай бұрын

@@thomasffrench3639 Even the Godfather movies cut out HUGE chunks of the book. A lot of the material in the second film was a result of being left out the first time, and there's a bunch of subplots that didn't make it to either film.

@Yurothehotot

Ай бұрын

​@@robbybevard8034 I would argue that being a faithful adaptation is less about things being cut or moved around to better suit the medium and more about sticking to the core asthetics of the source material. An adaptation is inherently tied to it's source material for better or worse and if you make an adaptation completely alien to the source material fans of the original aren't going to enjoy it witch of course begs the question as to why you don't just make a new story instead of hitching your story to something already established. I think the recent one peice adaptation is the ideal adaptation. It hits all the same plot beats, it's true to the core asthetic of the original. But it's definitely not a shot for shot re telling of the story but there is an effort to adhere to the core identity of the source material as best as you can within the medium.

To me, there's one crucial aspect of screen adaptations that you get even if every single beat from the book is translated exactly with no creative changes or "take" on the material: the Music. Even if I can perfectly picture the settings, characters, and events of a book in my head, there's no way my brain can come up with something as beautiful as Howard Shore's Lord of the Rings score to accompany it.

I love the discussion of this video. It's definitely really interesting. But it exists in parallel to the title. What's the point of a faithful Mario adaptation? Well, personally, it was to give my 4 year old son an ideal first theatrical film experience. Seeing a movie in a theater can be really overwhelming, especially if you're a kid who gets really into movies and spends a lot of time sitting on the basement stairs (our family version of hiding behind the couch) when anything remotely suspenseful of emotionally intense happens. But the Mario movie was a known quantity. My son knows that Bowser is a little scary, but also silly and always gets defeated. He's not scared of Bowser, even though he can still experience suspense in certain sequences. So he stayed in his seat the whole movie and had a magical experience. I'm not saying its a movie just for babies, but that it's good to have movies that have lower, more understandable stakes as well as dramas for adults. Basically, The Mario movie was my son's Fast and Furious installment, a mostly silly, highly entertaining, cinematic experience. And that's ok. We can go see more challenging movies later, when he's older. My showing at the Mario movie was full of kids, delighting in the theatrical experience, they and their parents coming away satisfied. And I thought perserving the cinematic experience was something you cared about. Anyway, it was a fun popcorn movie with understandable stakes that helped usually nervous younger viewers feel comfortable with the cinematic experience. 🤷‍♀️ Anyway, I'm going to think more about adaptations now.

@snorpenbass4196

Ай бұрын

I mean, this is a very good point. Is the 90's SMB movie a good movie? No. Fun? Yes! Is it for the kids who played SMB? Oh heck no. Not even slightly. They made it for the wrong audience, basically. Much like the original live action MK movie wasn't even a tenth as gory as the games, because they didn't want to make it X-rated and thus shut out of a huge majority of cinemas. You gotta make the movies for the kids who like the games, not (just) the nostalgic adults who want to see a "grown-up" version. We got Brightburn, it sucked. Snyder's Superman, meh. Superman & Lois? Yay!

@lydia1634

Ай бұрын

@snorpenbass4196 Right! And as good as Barbie was, it isn't actually for the kids who are playing with Barbies right now. It's for the teenagers and adults who grew up with Barbie...actually, it's for the middle aged moms most of all. It's great, but not the audience or kind of movie Mario should have aimed for. Mario has always been a franchise for kids that teenagers and adults love too. It's rated E for everyone. The movie had to be the same thing. What we got isn't high art, but it also isn't garbage either. It's a pizza of a movie. Not a culinary risk or masterpiece, but a simple pleasure.

@sorafanchick

Ай бұрын

@@lydia1634 I agree. In fact, that's kind of why I didn't like Barbie, to be honest. I actually preferred something that was a little more light hearted and for a younger demographic. Not everything has to be edgy and compelling to be great.

@mythos8558

Ай бұрын

​@@lydia1634 It's fun but mostly forgettable. I'm not saying everything has to "high art" but just chalking up every mediocre blockbuster as "dumb, popcorn flicks" is beginning to be a tired argument.

@SmallSpoonBrigade

14 сағат бұрын

@@snorpenbass4196 I'd suggest that sometimes being fun is sufficient to make something a good movie. Not a great movie, but a good one.

surprised the Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy didn’t get a mention given its various adaptations (from the original radio series to books, to TV, and film, etc) but each time with the involvement of the original author tweaking parts to suit it to a different medium

@chaoticsequence

Ай бұрын

I'd argue that's what makes the various versions so successful (I'm a fan of the 2000's era film).

@thomasffrench3639

Ай бұрын

He also just changed stuff for the heck of it as well.

@emmettobrian1874

Ай бұрын

My favorite version (other than the book) was the radio drama.

@MidlifeCrisisJoe

Ай бұрын

The author even programmed and completely designed the text adventure video game adaptation at the time because he was a hobbyist programmer!

@KyleJMitchell

Ай бұрын

H2G2 is one of my go-to examples when I argue that the movie should be less faithful to the book. Adams wanting to change some things for the hell of it but knowing he needed to change other things for the different medium (also, why not take advantage of what the new medium gives you that previous ones didn't?) was an artifact of his having worked in the business and knowing what does well, as well as his genuine interest in the well-being of his stories. He wanted them to do well so he let them grow, and they feel more alive because of it. The first Harry Potter book being pretty much exactly copied into a film has always felt pointless to me by comparison, and apparently I should feel that way about Watchmen even more, but I never read the novel so I have nothing to compare the movie to.

All right I'm making a faithful video game movie. 50% action scenes, 10% story and 40% managing inventory or backtracking. Unsure how to work the random item descriptions in without making it too expositiony. Audiences are sure to enjoy the alternate endings.

@taejaskudva2543

Ай бұрын

Isn't that Clue?

@mg6945

Ай бұрын

Jordan-Vogt Roberts’ Metal Gear movie has yet to be made because he’s too busy figuring out how to write a screenplay where 75% of it is exposition and 25% of it is backtracking back to the place you were two hours ago before all that exposition began.

@TwoPairSA

Ай бұрын

Personally I'm going for a dramatic take on a completionist run where someone keeps going back to quicksaves.

@michaelleoanrd194

Ай бұрын

@@TwoPairSA Speed running. No dialogue, no explanation just a hyper-manic protagonist charging through a cartoonish action movie with clairvoyant accuracy and almost no dialogue (and a voiceover during the unskippable cut scenes of pure exposition repeating "come on, come on...." I'm thinking Elijah Wood.

@purplespectre

Ай бұрын

@@michaelleoanrd194 I'd watch that. Make it 3 hours long.

A lot of it boils down to 1) knowing your audience, and 2) being upfront about it being a reimagining rather than a direct adaptation.

@notsyzagts7967

11 күн бұрын

"Hey, kids, this is a heads-up about the movie you're about to watch. It's not an exact version of the Mario games; it's a blend of several Nintendo properties related to Mario and his gaming history." Sure, let's pretend that the intended audience of younger children would have given a damn about that fact. Indeed, adults can make it out, so why bother "being upfront" about it? Perhaps YOU needed to be aware of the audience because Nintendo sure was.

@RossOriginals

11 күн бұрын

@@notsyzagts7967 so, maybe you've willfully misinterpreted my statement, but I'll make it clearer for you anyway: I am talking about movies in general terms, not specifically the Mario movie, as this video is about adaptation in general and happens to use the Mario movies, including the old live action one, as a lens to examine this through. Know your audience: recognise who your audience is and what they want when adapting your story from one medium to another, this INCLUDES understanding what your audience would "give a damn" about and what ages and generations they are likely to be, and what the story or characters might mean to them, etc. so, for example, the new Mario movie for instance, Illumination gave their audience more or less what they expected to get from a Mario movie, whereas the old live action movie did not. Be upfront: MARKET the movie according to what it is, e.g. a movie with a different take on existing characters could be advertised as "a bold reimagining", or a movie that deviates from the story it's based on could be credited as "inspired by" rather than "based on", etc. I am not talking about a literal pre-movie disclaimer. So, for example, the original Mario movie with Bob Hoskins might have been better received if it was advertised differently. I hope this is clearer, and that you will consider greater context when replying to people's comments in the future.

"No one knows what to do with that giant interdimensional turtle." FINALLY! Someone finally gets to the heart of the matter!

@KyleJMitchell

Ай бұрын

Almost makes me want to read the book to see what Stephen King does with the giant interdimensional turtle. Almost.

Bro got the shiniest head

@wastelanderone

Ай бұрын

upsettingly shiny

@BeMoreFunny

Ай бұрын

And it seems to be intentional

@zenosAnalytic

Ай бұрын

"I will SHOW YOU the PRIDE of a Key Grip!" *GLEEEAAAM*

@pendaco

Ай бұрын

Patrick always uses that 70s soft edge bloom lighting in his videos but it was a tad aggressive in this video

@ratburger6669

Ай бұрын

serving young Charles Xavier

Excellent and interesting video, but I especially liked when you said "Bing Bing Wahoo."

@zeoxdragon

Ай бұрын

He really went and got those coins and reach the flag at the end, it was great.

@Calvin_Coolage

Ай бұрын

Good to know this video has the Melpert Seal of Approval.

@tednugent1100

Ай бұрын

please do not presume

Every time I reload KZread this video has a new thumbnail and title

@Wendy_O._Koopa

Ай бұрын

He keeps making it stupider until I click on it.

The worst movie reviews are the ones where they go through the movie and say, “This is what it was like in the book, but they changed it!”

@Wendy_O._Koopa

Ай бұрын

I think the worst movie reviews are the ones that start off by admitting that they haven't even watched the movie. It happens more often than you'd think.

@SmallSpoonBrigade

14 сағат бұрын

Yep, on the whole I think that's an unfair criticism. There are a few times when that is a legitimate issue. A couple Kubrick examples were the endings to The Shining and 2001. Changing The Shining with that ending did completely change the story and I don't think that it was as strong of a story as the original source material. With 2001, I don't believe that it was even possible to film the ending in a way that would make any sort of visual sense.

I think it's interesting how anime exists as an artform run on adaptation. To be clear, there is a lot of very important and popular original TV anime, but the biggest stuff is usually a manga adaptation (sometimes a light novel or a video game, but mostly manga). As you mentioned, comics lend themselves to film based on their visual nature. A lot of manga is actively cinematic in its panel layouts and effects like action lines in shonen or sparkles in shojo. But it also shares the quality of a book in the fact that the reader sets the pace, and it gives the mangaka room to add in more details and drag out important story and character moments (or to tell really unique jokes). Not to mention the inner dialogue that can bounce between multiple character POVs. As you mentioned, there's an obvious connection between comics and film, and I think those same elements are why manga and anime are so interconnected. That being said, SO many manga readers complain when their favorite show gets adapted because it's almost never as good as the manga, and despite usually being a TV adaptation with multiple episodes, is usually lambasted for excluding detail or cutting things for time. I think it just goes to show, even in a medium that thrives on adaptation, there is a disconnect between what the two art forms have to offer, but there is also something new created that draws people to that adaptation.

@KyleRDent

Ай бұрын

The main issue with anime adaptations of manga and light novels is that they're always made in the middle of the manga's run. Stuff gets made up and it can completely fudge up the storyline and characters. One of the biggest examples is Fruits Basket, which got elements so badly incorrect that they canned the anime and waited a decade until the manga finished and rebooted it properly. Same thing happened with Kyo Kara Maoh, Tsubasa Reservoir Chronicles, and many more. Sadly no reboot so far for them

@night1952

Ай бұрын

@@KyleRDent They've stopped doing that long ago. Last time they made up stuff because they caught up is Blue Exorcist as far as I know, and that was 12 years ago.

@troyjardine5850

Ай бұрын

And then their are cases where the studio follows up an excelent faithful first season with a terrible second that vears wildly off the source. (cough) The Promised Neverland (cough).

@thomasffrench3639

Ай бұрын

And that is one of my biggest gripes with anime. It shows that anime as a medium hasn’t matured past adaptations. I find that most mediums go through a period where they start to move away from adaptations as the primary way of creating stories and come up with their own medium specific environment, which for a decade or two anime was really moving that direction, but unfortunately due to the economic bubble bursting relying on adaptations was a reliable way to be safe and make money with only a couple of original series every year

@ew275x

Ай бұрын

@@thomasffrench3639 The catalogue of Ghibli, Disney, and Dreamworks are mostly adaptations, does that mean Feature length animation is also not a mature artform?

It's weird that you used Edge of Tomorrow for the movie-video game discussion since it is technically an adaptation of the manga "All You Need is Kill" and while it did stick to some of the material by the mid-point it deviates quite a bit. I guess the point I have is as long as it reaches the middle ground where you have recognizable material but still new enough to not be a rehash it can be good...or bad I don't know I'm just yelling at the void.

@AzraelNewtype0079

Ай бұрын

The movie and the manga are both adaptations of a novel. The movie actually premiered in London the day before the final chapter of the manga was published. It's adaptations all the way down.

@nykcarnsew2238

Ай бұрын

It’s not really weird, his point about Edge of Tomorrow has nothing to do with whether or not it was a good adaptation

@ArifRWinandar

Ай бұрын

He could also use Groundhog Day as an example of a video gamey film where the point of the movie is the protagonist trying something again and again while the world stays in stasis until he becomes good at it, like a video game. Which is kind of ironic, because nowadays there are a lot of video games whose premise is based exactly on Groundhog Day.

@OtakuUnitedStudio

Ай бұрын

@@nykcarnsew2238 It's just a weird coincidence that he chose something that IS an adaptation as an example of something that's not. No, not of a video game, but it's an adaptation nonetheless.

@nykcarnsew2238

Ай бұрын

@@OtakuUnitedStudio it’s not weird at all. He’s using it as an example of something that isn’t adapting a video game, not something that isn’t an adaptation. It being based on a book has nothing to do with his point

I do find it a little funny that Patrick says that newer Mario movie is if anything too loyal to it's source material when for years the joke has been that the plot of every Mario game is "Princess Peach gets kidnapped and Mario goes on an adventure to rescue her" and that literally doesn't happen in the movie.

@motor4X4kombat

Ай бұрын

Patrick: hey look my foot! wanna see me shooting it for an hour?

@KyleJMitchell

Ай бұрын

Yeah, but it's pretty clear that his point isn't that the newer movie is too faithful, but rather that it's not unfaithful enough. And I think his point is solid and important: that being faithful may be a strength for the newer film, but the older film's being almost completely divorced from the source is actually more of a strength than people tend to realize. Like the thumbnail says, adaptations can afford to be weirder just by being an adaptation; it's not the source material, so it doesn't _have_ to be the source material, and the audience expects and can cope with that fact to a greater extent than some realize.

@KairuHakubi

Ай бұрын

Course not, they'd be crucified for that these days. Peach has to be strong and in charge and have zero flaws (except her hideous, hideous face with full nostril detail) Nevermind they have Daisy to be the tomboy, it's unacceptable to have ANY female characters being rescued. At least according to the people who wrested creative control from the rest of us. One vision, one standard, no whammys.

@MalzraAirwynn

Ай бұрын

@@KairuHakubi Did we watch the same movie? She DOES get rescued. Sure she has her little breakout scene but her attempt fails and then Mario and DK come in to save the day. Plus it's the mario bros, not Peach, who get the star and stop Bowser from destroying everything in the climax.

@KairuHakubi

Ай бұрын

@@MalzraAirwynn Well of course I didn't watch it, I'm going by what I was told. In group settings. With nobody contradicting the person who said it. So it's safe to assume that was accurate. The only one getting rescued is Luigi, Peach is in total control the entire time. That's what I was told, and there are more people confirming that than rejecting it at this point.

In regards to Patrick's point about adapting Mario into a non-interactive medium, I feel like it can be done and has already been done. In the 90's, there was a short comic series, Super Mario Adventures, based primarily on Super Mario World. It's similar to the Mario RPG's since it's mostly faithful to the source material but also took some liberties unlike the recent movie. Around the same time, there were comics adaptations of other games (ie Legend of Zelda, Metroid, Star Fox) that I heard were pretty good as well. In regards to more cinematic media, while the first couple of animated shows from the 80s/90s aren't great, I feel that they were better at doing their own thing than the recent movie while still feeling decently faithful. In regards to Patrick's point about the simple plot, I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing if it acts as more of a framework or framing device than a significant part of the media. I believe that a lot of the personality/tone of the games and its characters can come less from elements like dialogue or story and more from elements such as aesthetics/art direction, level/world + character design, animation, sound effects, and music. I believe that game(s) like that can coexist well with other games like God of War and The Last of Us. I disagree that a good Mario movie can't be created. A few years ago when the Mario movie cast got announced, Captain Midnight made a video explaining that a movie focused on something like smart physical comedy could be a really effective way of adapting Mario. Aside from that, Nintendo already has some experience with creating short-form cinematic content like with their Pikmin shorts. It's possible that something like Mario is more conducive to something like shorts a la Merrie Melodies than something like a full-length movie. I also disagree with Patrick's point near the end regarding the visuals. While the recent Mario games like Mario Wonder look great, game animators need to prioritize player input and functionality to ensure the game is fun and works well, thereby limiting the amount of animation and visual variety to some extent. Since movies are a passive medium instead of an interactive one, film animators have a greater amount of freedom with how to represent the visuals and action compared to game animators. I apologize if any of this comes across as really defensive. Mario and his games have been really important to me for the past 20+ years. As a result, I want to acknowledge and explain some of the potential in terms of adaptations.

@wuartzen

Ай бұрын

I agree 100%. I don't watch Mr. Bean for the story.

@ExtremeWreck

17 күн бұрын

"It's possible that something like Mario is more conducive to something like shorts a la Merrie Melodies than something like a full-length movie." Mario in a rubberhose style would be really cool IMO.

@SmallSpoonBrigade

14 сағат бұрын

@@ExtremeWreck Wasn't that sort of like the Mario TV shows?

@ExtremeWreck

13 сағат бұрын

@@SmallSpoonBrigade No, not really. DiC's Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog was far more rubberhose influenced.

" Hey, Paisano's! It's the Willems Bros Super Show!"

@javiers5599

Ай бұрын

"If you do drugs, you go to Hell before you die"-Mario, 1987

I'm a Dune Fan, and every adaptation is an odd drinking game of figuring out what was cut from the novel in order to streamline the narrative to make it work in film.

@digitaljanus

Ай бұрын

And I love that. No film can ever possibly come close to the "faithful" end of the spectrum, while every adaptation gets to spotlight the parts of the book that most compels them.

@dreammachine1492

Ай бұрын

Genuinely wondering did the Scyfy series cut a lot less compared to the film adaptations?

@alanmcmillian

Ай бұрын

@@dreammachine1492 not a lot. Because it had so much time to play with It's probably the most faithful adaptation. Many of its changes were down to budgetary constraints and areas where the novel's descriptions were not specific, leaving room for individual interpretation.

@LOCKEYJ

Ай бұрын

How does that work take a drink whenever something doesn’t appear?

@alanmcmillian

Ай бұрын

@@LOCKEYJ or when something diverges from the book. I don't know. I'm weird.

I think you fail to appreciate the staying power of Mario. Also, you need to give the Mario movie a little more credit. Yes, it's a basic quest plot, but there is lots of character growth not just from the lead, but DK, Luigi, and even Peach to a lesser extent. IF they choose to dig a little deeper in the sequels, I think a truly great video game adaptation is just around the corner.

Kind of a random example, but this whole topic reminds me of the tv show adaptation of the manga JoJo's Bizarre Adventure. As the show has gone on, its increasingly gotten more very literally faithful to the source material, to the point where recent seasons are regularly adapting panels 1 for 1 from the manga. However, I started to notice that things have begun to feel a little more by-the-numbers as they've done the direct panel adaptations more. Earlier seasons often took more liberties with the exact minutia of how scenes play out. Because of this, it's started to feel like, instead of something new, you're left with essentially worse looking versions of the excellent manga illustrations. When you try too hard to directly compete with the source material, you run the risk of just making an all-around inferior version.

@KairuHakubi

Ай бұрын

Hell that makes me think of anime localization in general. Back in the day, they had a lot more fun with it, especially dubbing. They were more concerned with getting the FEELING across than the literal meaning of each word. Some of them trusted the audience enough to leave honorifics and some other distinct terminology alone, which gives it more flavor and avoids awkwardly attempting to translate the untranslatable. Also, more swearing, when it was appropriate for the character and the line. All of that's gone now, it's wooden and dry, all in the name of being an accurate adaptation. Like, guys, way to miss the point. We wanted you to stop removing blood and titties, changing names and pretending it's not japan, or garbling up the order of episodes. That's the accuracy we were looking for, the authorial intent, translated so we can understand it.

I feel like the “limitations” of visual effects back in the days before CGI had that element of using your imagination to fill in the gaps like it has to in a stage play.

@sirBrouwer

Ай бұрын

even with CGI. for a very long time it just did not look well. Even with the very big budgets they can use now. the very thin line in believable CGI and world breaking. is very real. Like certain adaptation from games to a movie might work. If you start with a movie that is not portrait as live action. It might work much better as a animated, stopmotion or maybe very much theater looking movie. Like for example the Monty Python movie The Holly grail. It is very loosely a story about Arthur. but it does not try to be accurate and is much more a theater show in a movie. (I do know that in this case it was not intended to be accurate that's why it did work)

It’s crazy how many villain characters in movies just boil down to being a Donald Trump impersonation.

@NoiseDay

Ай бұрын

And to think he was voted into office...

@TheSkizz89

Ай бұрын

Well trump is a one dimensional cartoon villain.

@yohance

Ай бұрын

Which one came first? Trump or these Villian archetypes?

@TacticalBodywash

Ай бұрын

yes but Trump is just a ripoff of Gene Hackman’s portrayal of Lex Luthor

@DylanGollerShow

Ай бұрын

Yes but Trump is about to save America so I'm cool with it.

What I found refreshing about the new Mario movie was its joyful, goofy sincerity. Ignoring its existence as a brand extension and a few winks at the camera, the film itself is wonderfully non-cynical. The characters all wear their hearts on their sleeves. They don’t attempt to deconstruct Mario. I love that they don’t turn Mario into a grumpy jerk who constantly bickers with Peach until they both decide they actually like each other. Instead there is a real respect between those two. It’s not trying to be cool. It’s earnest. The movie is unapologetically about friendship, brotherhood and courage. That’s good enough for me.

@SmallSpoonBrigade

14 сағат бұрын

As much as I enjoyed watching the 2023 Mario movie, it has major problems. For example, it's not a very deep movie, there's no question that Mario is going to win and there isn't really much of a challenge for him in getting there. It also spends way too much energy on building in just about every possible reference in there and it just kind of feels like it was designed specifically to ensure that people going would go for the Easter eggs and that everybody had to have at least a couple dozen they could identify, no matter what era of Nintendo games they grew up with. The 1993 movie, at least felt like somebody made an attempt at making a real movie, and while I have precisely no interest in ever watching the 2023 movie again, I have watched the 1993 one more than once and will again in the future. It's not a great movie, but it is a bit of fun.

Excellent points all around but the “like watching somebody else play a video game” line feels a little outdated when let’s plays have been an established thing for a couple decades now.

The AKIRA argument could’ve gone a lot deeper to make another interesting point since it is a weird case of adaptation kind of like 2001 having the book and film created at the same time. If I remember correctly from researching it before the second half of the movie is different from the manga, because the first half of the manga was released, then they made the movie which was completed before the second half of the manga was completed. The manga was only completed after the film. (I could definitely stand corrected on this and for sure some hardcore Akira fans will come through and let me know)

@MrGregory777

Ай бұрын

This is correct. The Akira manga was then influenced by the movie

@misterchris3491

Ай бұрын

That reminded me of Hayao Miyazaki 's Nausicaa. The film was an adaptation of his own manga that wasn't finished until almost a decade after the film was released

@M1kaelJohansson

Ай бұрын

Nausicaa's the closest similarity but it also reminds me of FMA and FMA Brotherhood (and GoT if that ever gets finished)

@TheRockerX

Ай бұрын

The same thing happened with the 2010 Scott Pilgrim movie

@MidlifeCrisisJoe

Ай бұрын

Yeah, I call these "Gecko Tail Adaptations." Because the adaptation that gets made by the original author while they're still working on the longer original work ends up like a gecko's tail that's been cut off. It gets frozen in time at a particular moment of the work's creation while the original work lives on, and grows a new tale different from the original.

My problem with the first film was never its faithfulness to the “material”, it was that it didn’t use its own premise or ideas well. I have a serious problem with the way the public at large discusses adaptations. The proclamation of 100% fidelity is nonsense and is often a well meaning audience members way of saying something wasn’t satisfying. The other phrase that is repeated ad naseum is that some media just “cant” be adapted, and I have always recoiled at that. Some of the greatest most beloved adaptations of all time were called “UNADAPTABLE”. Nothing is “unadaptable” in my opinion and like with any narrative film idea it doesn’t matter how wild, difficult or bare the idea or source is provided a talented filmmaker has something to say and can do it well, period.

@notsyzagts7967

Ай бұрын

Despite some points about what you dislike about adaptations being misunderstood and how nothing is unadaptable; you never said what an adaptation means to you personally. Could you elaborate on that? What is an adaptation to you and what makes it a good one?

@__M7MD

Ай бұрын

Facts

@langleymneely

Ай бұрын

@@notsyzagts7967 For me a good adaptation manages to either capture the essence of the original material or create a new dynamic out of the original material. It’s almost like having a conversation with the original material? A recent example for me that I was surprised to really like was the Mean Girls musical. I think it actually managed to keep pace with the original but expand on it in ways that enhance the original story. As unfashionable as it is to admit right now some of my favorite adaptations as a comic book fan have come from the MCU. The insane level of quality adaptation they have managed to deliver is actually surprisingly satisfying. I never in a million years expected to see some characters in live action let alone in their own films?! Black Panther was a transcendent experience for me as a fan that spent my youth dreaming of such a thing. They are also great examples of capturing the essence of the original while also charting its own course, without needing to be “faithfully accurate”.

@MidlifeCrisisJoe

Ай бұрын

I think it's safe to say there's a Spectrum of Adaptability Ease at the very least. Like, with the new (and older, for that matter) Dune adaptations, after reading the novels I'm kind of blown away that they work even a little bit because SO much of the books is just internal monologue and soliloquy. Had I read those books before seeing any of the adaptations I would have thought them practically unadaptable just due to complete difference in methodology they'd require in translation and the complete destruction of internal character narrative that it would entail. Obviously the first book in that series HAS been adapted to film (3 times now, even) so it's obviously possible, but none of those adaptations has ever really captured a lot of the importance lost in losing that heavy focus on internal monologue. Particularly the tragic sense of inevitability that Paul Atreides carries with him in all of the books because he's hyper aware of how his actions will lead to terrible consequences, which is easy to depict with such internal monologues in the books, but which all the adaptations excise or truncate to the point that this aspect feels secondary or inconsequential in them, when it's *extremely* important to the themes and point of the books.

@langleymneely

Ай бұрын

@@MidlifeCrisisJoe I think you are definitely on the money. It’s not easy to do in the slightest but I’ve seen adaptations of things I was eternally told COULDNT be done, period. Granted the quality of the adaptation and how well it resonates with people is a completely different topic.

When I was 9 I was incensed to learn that in the original Wizard of Oz Dorothy had Silver Shoes, and they just changed it to Ruby Slippers.

@BigFatCone

Ай бұрын

Because red would really pop in technicolour but silver would just look dull.

@degrassi420

5 күн бұрын

not only that but the prop used in the film was actually silver too, and they colored them red in post.

This is part of why the "Final Fantasy 7" remakes are so interesting to me. A series of video games that adapt a video game, a medium change within its own medium. There are people experienced with the original material, people only aware of a rosebud level spoiler, and people who are completely unaware of the original all experiencing it. This familiarity, or lack thereof, even informs the narrative, and feels like the sort of thing film scholars would be absolutely devouring on a meta level if it were in their own medium.

@ShockwaveFPSStudios

Ай бұрын

They’re not really adaptations. They’re more so sequels to the original game. So much like the Mortal Kombat reboots, they’re not really reboots or remakes of Final Fantasy VII.

My most vivid memory of the 1993 Super Mario brothers movie was seeing it for my classmates birthday party. As we were watching it, I pooped my pants and his very attractive and very unfriendly mother smelled it and yanked me out into the lobby and told me to clean my pants myself……. I told the story to John Leguizamo when met him.

@BlackTestament

Ай бұрын

Wow that was wild from start to finish XD

@katherinealvarez9216

Ай бұрын

I don't know when I saw this movie. But cool.

@randomcharacter6501

Ай бұрын

😂😂😂

@KenjiEspresso

Ай бұрын

Now you’re a plumber?

@BeMoreFunny

Ай бұрын

What's the second most vivid?

You would have to change the graph and make a third line that goes upward for something like Starship Troopers. It adapts the literal events of the book while using the cinematic medium to completely change the thematic meaning of the story. It changes the context completely by messing with the tone. Super interesting case study in adaptation.

@therealsunnyk

Ай бұрын

I'm actually quite upset with the "fidelity" take on this. Instead, it should be about "respect" as an axis. Starship Troopers as a "counter" disrespects the original work but also expects viewers to agree with the disrespect. If seen through that lens, maybe Patrick would have mentioned the Raimi movies (loved comics, adapted Spiderman really well, not "faithful" but "respectful"). He could have talked about Dune (3 adaptations, 2 completed) or Edgerunners. He'd probably have a different take on LotR. Or perhaps even the Wes. Fucking. Anderson. Roald. Dahl. Adaptations. Which. He. Recommended. He's even covered some disrespectful but they wanted money movies, like I Robot. PW sometimes misses a corner when covering an issue, and I really trust his stuff, but here I think he's pretty fundamentally missed the mark. I really think that whatever the execs think, the Audience just wants someone who wants to adapt the thing they're adapting.

@stephennootens916

Ай бұрын

I have to admit I never finished the book because it was so boring. Robert A Heinlein's work though is a perfect example if the limits of movies over books. There was no way on Earth any studio would green light something like Stranger in the Strangeland or To Sail Beyond the Sunset were the lead marries both her favorite son and her father. You also have writers like Philip K Dick were more or less they just take the bare minum of the book or story and make into a movie because his books have no real action and are often depressing or and confusing.

@timjackson4387

Ай бұрын

@@therealsunnyk solid points. But I didn’t bring this up to criticize Patrick tho. I just thought it was an interesting thought. I felt like Patrick’s video was focused and concise. I wouldn’t necessarily say he cut corners or anything. Sometimes for the sake of clarity and brevity you focus on specific aspects of a topic. You can’t always hit everything. The “ fidelity” angle was the one discussed in all of the studies Patrick referenced. So I’m assuming he was discussing that more than anything. Don’t know why you gotta be mad at Patrick bro. Be mad at the academics or something.

@prenticeclark1454

Ай бұрын

So maybe Starship Troopers could be described as the opposite of Watchmen as an adaptation: whereas Watchmen missed the point of the original, taking something which was originally an ironic criticism and making it a straight-up celebration, Starship Troopers understands its source but disagrees, changing it from a direct promotion of its subject to an ironic commentary.

@therealsunnyk

Ай бұрын

@@timjackson4387 Not mad at Patrick, to be clear. Like I say he always does a good job of understanding and explaining the issue. It's more the dramatic irony of being able to see something on this side of the screen that isn't visible from the other side. I still think it's a great channel.

Patrick, how many times are you gonna change the thumbnail???

New background, new intro and music, new Emma haircut, new Patrick sweater... damn we are really in a new Patriniverse

@BigFatCone

Ай бұрын

Don't encourage him, his film making is horrible.

Everytime he said "novels" i thought he was saying "knobbles"

@ew275x

Ай бұрын

The literature gobbler

@ExtremeWreck

17 күн бұрын

Knobble And the Novels when?

How many times are you going to change the title of this video?

@LarsAassOlsen

Ай бұрын

Gotta pump up those numbers, baby!

The bald head exsterme light glare is a bold artistic decision

Almost all adaptations are actually just fan art that the copyright owner approved of.

@Duiker36

Ай бұрын

Almost all stories are actually just fan art before copyright was invented.

@Brindlebrother

Ай бұрын

Almost all art was just fanart before the art was art art

@MidlifeCrisisJoe

Ай бұрын

According to this thread, everything is fan art unless you were a cro magnon man painting antelope in a cave. Even then I'm guessing the next guy will say that was fan art . . . of antelope!

Battleship is great. They do a handbrake turn... in a battleship!

@digitaljanus

Ай бұрын

I kind of love the poetry of the two countries who were the last to fight major naval battles against each other teaming up decades later to fight a common enemy.

Is the YT algorithm now saying you have to change the thumbnail and title every 24 hours?

I just jave to point out that the SNES game "Super Mario World" does have a bunch of dinosaurs and takes place in Dinosaur Land. So the dinosaur thing wasn't completely left field. I've heard a few people express how random it seemed in the movie when it was most likely inspired by the game.

I’ve always believed “O Brother Where Art Thou” is the purest example of what an adaptation truly is as it’s a version of the story of The Odyssey.

@dicknijmegen

Ай бұрын

People always say that, yet the movie seems to be about nostalgia for nursery rhymes being popular music or something..

@wrmsnicket

Ай бұрын

Someone’s never seen or read Holes. If you want adaptation fidelity, it’s hard to find a more one-to-one example.

Palimpsestuos, from Greek ‘palin’ ‘again’ and ‘psestos’, scraped, as in scraped again, to be used for writing something else.

@MIRobin22

Ай бұрын

The usual use being for ancient parchments that were scraped clean and written over at some point, but with traces of the original text remaining. These artifacts are called palimpsests.

This whole video died, the moment Extra Credits got introduced

“And strangely, no movies based on those books.” As a humanities student this had me laughing out loud.

Gnobbles struck me as more a Hobbes guy than a Locke guy.

I think games like Legend of Zelda and Metroid Prime could actually make for interesting “faithful” adaptations. While Link isn’t a super multidimensional character or anything, Mario’s faithful adaptation relied on it keeping the simplicity of the Mario games, LoZ and Metroid games have deep lore, a level of grounded-ness, and characters whose roles can be fleshed out interestingly without deviating to a point that I think Nintendo would say is “too much.”

@caffetiel

Ай бұрын

otoh, I don't think you could actually adapt Samus to another medium without turning it into Other M. Cinema doesn't have the same exploration and revisitation vibe the Metroid games do, and can't. You'd have to do some bit of timeline specifically not covered by the games.

@timogul

Ай бұрын

@@caffetielYou could definitely adapt Metroid, it would just be an action adventure movie. The issue is that it would have relatively little dialogue and character work, but there are movies like that out there, such as Prey.

@robbybevard8034

Ай бұрын

@@caffetiel Alien already shows the template for how to do Metroid. Just mood and atmosphere and some horror with moments of big bombastic action. It could VERY easily work in the right hands with just the one character stuck alone and trying to move along on her mission. Very little dialogue, mostly visuals and vibes. Same with Shadow of Colossus. That won't be what they do, it'll be full of quips and snark and no horror at all probably, but the in-theory baseline already exists.

@fredericmigneret4211

Ай бұрын

I think they’re going to adapt BOTW because when you think about it it’s perfect for an adaptation : link has no memory so you make him a personality and he discovers Hyrule with the audience Also the game is a sandbox where you make your own narrative, so they can invent one

@caffetiel

Ай бұрын

@@robbybevard8034 Alien is a bunch of schmucks dying one by one at the hands of an implacable monster. Metroid is about an implacable killing machine single-handedly obliterating entire species from world after world. How do you make an orgy of blood and artifacts last 90min+?

23:44 “There you are, watching one of your favorite channels, when all of a sudden- it’s a collaboration…! You didn’t ask for this…” I’m kidding; this video was great, but Matthew’s voice really took me back, ha ha. Thanks for all the thoughtful essays.

I didn’t ask for an extra credits cameo. I didn’t want to listen to extra credits but here I am, listening to extra credits. (This is a reference to their terrible video on nazis in games that made me stop watching their channel)

I watched Locke because of Emma. It was so good. I watched it on my computer while my brother was playing a game in the same room and he was like "the movie was so good! I could have played the game and just listened to the story but I had to stop and watch."

@MidlifeCrisisJoe

Ай бұрын

I preferred the book version, myself. I don't know what Emma is talking about.

@emlogsdon

Ай бұрын

I AM SO GLAD TO HEAR THIS

As great as this video essay was, I can't believe we had an almost hour-long discussion about adaptation without even passing reference to the greatest example of how it works going from one medium to another: The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy (Radio play, to book, to tv show, to video game, and finally to movie). And by the same author each time. Douglas Adams made a point to change it for each medium, because he understood that was needed to make it work. Each medium had different strengths and needs.

@jarjarpera

Ай бұрын

Came here just to say this! Glad you put it this eloquently. Douglas made a point of NOT honoring source material!

@notsyzagts7967

Ай бұрын

@@jarjarperaWrong. He was faithful to the core of the material but flexible with storytelling methods. A good adaptation uses sources as building blocks but is not restricted to existing assets. He honored the source material just fine but in a less conventional way.

@MattMcIrvin

Ай бұрын

The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy was arguably more successful at repeatedly jumping between different media than it had been at continuing the story in any given medium.

If beale street could talk is my favorite adaptation. The plot is pure fidelity, but the narratives are told completely differently. The novella focuses heavily on the interiority of various characters, which lends tremendously to the written form. On the other hand, the film is purely external, with no internal monologue, and completely takes advantage of the visual communication innate to cinema. Ultimately, each ends up being a fire representation of their respective mediums

I was gonna chime in about how I was the weirdo kid that thought the 93 Mario movie was an interesting take at the time, but then you had to mention the only Hollywood Live-action adaptation of a Japanese Light Novel and had to do the DiCaprio point and say they should've left the title as "All you Need is Kill"

I would argue that the main reason to adopt a video game into a movie or TV show is to show more of the world and characters. With videogames being a interactive medium, your mostly tied to playing the protagionist. Even in cinematic games, the one, two, gameplay is the main driver of the story even if it's as simple as walking. That means that you don't see alot of what the side characters are if the protagonist isn't present. Alot of the wider world and it's lore are often optional for those who seek them out. So adapting a video game can expand the story in ways a video game can't. The Last Of Us TV show is a perfect example of this. Characters like Bill, Frank, Sam and Henry, and David are given much more depth in the story because the show can cut back to them. The show doesn't need Joel or Ellie to be with them for us to see who these characters are. In the Game, Pittsburg is just occupied by hunters who Joel and Ellie kill on mass. In the Show, Kansas city is shown to have undergone a revolution that overthrew Fedra. We are shown the characters of said revolution and their own motivations. Plus, there is a conclusion for the rebel group whereas the game simply have the hunters not be a thing after Pittsburgh. The Same goes with David's group. We are shown more of the group then David and his henchmen. We are shown that there a religious group which was not present in the Game. That's because the show can dedicate segments to the group. Hell, Joel and Ellie also get more space to grow because the show isn't worried about whether or not a segment would hinder the flow of gameplay. We can see more of Joel's life pre-outbreak and we can see more of Ellie's life before she got infected. I would also argue that with games often seeing you taking out multiple enemies, a adaptation can make these enemies more dangerous. The clickers are more freighting in the show because the characters can't just hit them with a brick and punch them to death. There way tougher to kill and they can call on a horde if they touch a vine. I do think that, as long as they expand on the world and characters in a way the game did not or could not, I say go and do the adaptation.

@DomSithe

Ай бұрын

I personally agree with your take on this, but wanted to give you an argument against changing the story of a game in the adaptation that was directed at me by a friend of mine. I had just finished the game Sekiro (a notoriously difficult game) and wanted to discuss the story/events in it. My friend had stopped about half way through the game because it genuinely got to hard for him to progress. Now he is a seasoned game player. Several thousand hours in many genres of games. The reason for extremely faithful adaptations of video games to movies is to bring in the people who will never be able to play the game to see the contents of it. You and I want to see more of the world. Everyone who doesn't play games just wants to see the world we've already seen.

@timogul

Ай бұрын

It's funny to use this theory to consider Final Fantay 7: Remake/Rebirth as adaptations of the original.

@pedrogarcia8706

Ай бұрын

​@@timogul they're really sequels of the original

@marshallw1902

Ай бұрын

Bingo.

@Heatranoveryou

Ай бұрын

Last of us really was a movie already. Mario on the other hand has no story what so ever.

I was 14 when the Super Mario Bros movie came out. My friends and I went to the premier, and then we had a sleep over fuelled by pizza, snes games, and a stack of Wizard magazines. I liked the movie. I enjoyed the weird adaptation choices they made. I probably would have liked it even more with that missing scene at the end, but even without it, I thought it was fun. The Super Mario games didn't have enough story to adapt in the first place, so I was perfectly happy with what we got. It certainly didn't murder my childhood in any way. I dunno how old the person in that "My Retro Life" clip was when they saw the movie, but I have to imagine they were super young, because that reaction is pretty absurd and dramatic :p

@masonasaro2118

Ай бұрын

my retro life is actually a pretty cool channel, the guy grew up with a whole family of gamers, and parents who recorded almost his entire childhood.

I remember Overly Sarcastic Productions talking more about continuity reboots and treating the original continuity as the Ship of Theseus and how the continuity being changed always irked some people because they removed/altered an important element that determined it was the Ship of Theseus. Adaptations fall into that, people felt the identity of the work was defined by that plank and that crew member Tom Bombadil and if you remove it then it's no longer the Ship of Theseus.

In college, I took an excellent course called “Shakespeare on Film,” it asked what makes a great adaptation of his work. For me, 10 Things I Hate About You, Throne of Blood, Romeo + Juliet, and Hamlet (2000) were the bast adaptations each for their own reasons despite their various levels of faithfulness. On the other hand, Kenneth Branagh’s Hamlet (1996) was the most faithful to the source material. If I remember correctly, very few lines of dialogue were changed from the source material (we had to read along). As a result, you get this bloated, mostly uninteresting, adaptation that skirts all of the unique traits that filmmaking has. Watching it I could only think, “I’d rather see this on stage/read the playwright.” In short, my final thesis was that Shakespeare adaptations are at their best when the film is enjoyable by a wide array of audiences while maintaining the core character transitions/changes. I compared the films to Hitchcocks, where they’re kind of popcorn movies that are expertly crafted. You could shut your brain and go “wow that was amazing” or watch it with deep intent and go “wow that was amazing.”

Patrick has so much film on the mind his head is glowing like a projector.

I’m surprised Patrick didn’t talk about the Sonic the Hedgehog movies, like do those count as being faithful whilst also having its own vision?

@notsyzagts7967

Ай бұрын

Sure but this wasn't meant to be a comprehensive overview of video game adaptations; just a handful of examples to form a basis for the starkness between the 2 Mario movies. Unlike the Mario movies, the Sonic movies didn't suffer the same disconnect that caused so much divisiveness. Yes, they are solid and well-made but they were generally non-controversial. That's probably the reason.

@JamesLawner

Ай бұрын

@@notsyzagts7967 There was the Ugly Sonic controversy tho.

@ShockwaveFPSStudios

Ай бұрын

@@JamesLawnerThat’s more of a design problem, not an adaptation problem.

@BigFatCone

Ай бұрын

Putting Sonic in a good damned road movie was stupid. Sonic runs, not rides a car.

@ShockwaveFPSStudios

Ай бұрын

And making him a stalker killed his cute rating on Facebook.

It's strange that out of a the two big video game movie franchises right now (Mario and Sonic, obv) Mario, the one with _less_ of a real story, is the one choosing to be more faithful with its source, while Sonic, whose franchise is filled to the brim (arguably too much) with lore/story, is the one that's been deviating more (a la Mario '93) by putting him in our world and giving him a weird surrogate dad in James Marsden. It's a strange dichotomy.

I feel like Patrick just misses @FilmJoy and wants to hang out with Mikey. He's practically summoning him.

Hi Patrick and Emma. I think about adaptations in comic book stuff a lot and I think it's almost completely different than most other adaptations. Like, comic book movies are, at least usually, not adapting stories directly, but rather adapting characters and using the stories they are a part of as inspiration. Like, with video game movies or movies based on books, they are directly following a story, so it's a lot easier to say whether they are accurate to the source material. Harry Potter is quite accurate, as it follows the events of the books pretty much beat for beat. The Percy Jackson movies are not accurate, as they completely change the stories of the books their adapting. But, many will tell you that "The Batman" is the most accurate Batman movie, but it doesn't really follow any comic book story, it's pretty much making up its own story. Plus, it completely changes the Riddler and Bruce Wayne is hardly in it. So, when critiquing adaptations of comic books, its all very subjective. I don't know what point I'm trying to make in this ramble, I just think judging the accuracy of comic book media is quite a bit more difficult than a novel adaptation.

@theebronks

Ай бұрын

I'd add that this is kind of true even in regards to comics themselves as you often get alternate/multiversal stories using characters where only certain core ideas/features are maintained. things like vampire batman or soviet superman are adaptations of the characters from primary cannon. not sure if my rambling adds anything to your ramble but I mostly want to add that with comics there's a long history of being able to do whatever you want with a character as long as you get the feel right.

@JamesLawner

Ай бұрын

There have been direct adaptations of comic book storylines and events, but in animated form. We got 2-part adaptations of The Dark Knight Returns and The Long Halloween. We also got adaps of Batman: Year One and The Killing Joke (of which the latter was heavily criticised for adding a Batgirl subplot that didn’t add much to the overall story). Seriously tho, why aren’t more people talking about animated DC movies?

@thatmovienitpicker8070

Ай бұрын

@@JamesLawner yeah, I meant the big budget theatrically released ones, which is why is said “most of the time.” I do love Under the Red Hood though

@thomasffrench3639

Ай бұрын

The thing with comics is that is only to do with super hero comics or long running stories. Most other comic adaptations like 300 or Sin City are very faithful to the source material

Between The Last of Us' award wins and Castlevania/Arcane's Netflix success, I honestly think TV is a better medium for modern video game adaptations. But modern games have a high story focus alongside game mechanics and Mario story is.... well whatever new scheme Bowser has for kidnapping/marrying Peach. Still, if they get Rosalina for a sequel, we could make an emotionally charged story out of it (don't act like you didn't cry reading her Super Mario Galaxy backstory.. we all did).

@nathanl8622

Ай бұрын

I can't speak for Last of Us or Castlevania, but I wouldn't even call Arcane an adaptation. It's a spinoff. It's not trying to adapt the experience of fighting in Summoner's Rift, it's taking the lore and character backstories and using that as the basis of its adaptation. That said I do think TV has an advantage purely because game stories are a lot longer than movies so a straight adaptation benefits from having more runtime to work with.

@XxHUNT3RN4T0RxX

Ай бұрын

@@nathanl8622​​⁠I’d still call Arcane somewhat an adaptation or based on the League of Legends universe with its own story you can’t find in the game. Cyberpunk: Edgerunners also does this so well. That had nothing to do with V or Johnny Silverhand but everything looks and sounds exactly like the game you played in. There are even certain locations you can actually go to in the 2077 game map like visit Lucy’s apartment or find Rebecca’s shotgun at the same area Adam Smasher killed her in. There’s a sense of connection and faithfulness to the game while still standing on its own. I thought that was all so freaking cool.

@timogul

Ай бұрын

It can be easier to adapt a story-based game, since the story is already there and it's basically just an editing process, but I think you can make good adaptations of "pure gameplay" games too, the secret is just to "yes, and" them. Don't contradict anything from the source material, don't try to negate it, just build out around it, add detail to the characters, add context to the action scenes. It's almost like the Marvel Method of film making, where they put together action set pieces and then build a plot around that. In this case, you take action set pieces from the game, and then build out good reasons for _why_ those scenes are happening.

@wintermute5974

Ай бұрын

Most videogames with any substantial narrative sort of already tend towards an episodic structure, simply because they're too long to be experienced in one setting. They're inherently something that are picked up and put down multiple times and lots of them factor that into the pacing and design.

@thomasffrench3639

Ай бұрын

@@timogulI think that a lot of “pure gameplay” games generally have story and a lot of environmental storytelling like Castlevania and Mega Man. So a lot of those games feel like they have a lot of potential in adaptations

I'm glad you brought up 'The Shining' because you asked the question "Is it a faithful adaptation, and would it be better if it was?" The answer is the TV miniseries later made of 'The Shining' in the '90s, with King himself writing the screenplay. Arguably the miniseries is more faithful, though it still deviates from the novel - but it's considerably less memorable than Kubrick's film. For my money, 'The Shining' has not been faithfully adapted to film yet, but Kubrick's film is the better movie by a considerable margin. Also, Mike Flanagan's 'Doctor Sleep' had to thread the needle between King's original work and the Kubrick film, and stands as an outstanding example of adaptation, both faithful to the original(s) and responsive to what works in different mediums. I wonder where 'Doctor Sleep' would fit on the Super Mario super spectrum.

@MidlifeCrisisJoe

Ай бұрын

Honestly I feel that Mario being used as the example for an adaptation spectrum is really a mistake when you have the ENTIRETY of the chaos that is Stephen King adaptations just sitting there. With Mario Adaptations and faithfulness versus "doing its own thing"-ness you have exactly two data points for comparison. For the vast array of films that are Stephen King adaptations, you have probably about a hundred different data points by now, especially once you add in the stuff adapted for television (where a lot of his short stories ended up on anthology series like Tales of the Darkside or the Outer Limits, and then there are the many mini-series to consider). You also have a lot of variation when it comes to authorial intent, as King himself has had a lot of variation when it comes to involvement with any particular adaptation and there are now several works that have been adapted multiple times by different creators. In the original Shining, King had little involvement, but a lot more in its second adaptation. In the original adaptation of The Stand, he wrote the screenplays for the mini-series, but in the 2nd adaptation he didn't . . . but he DID write a whole new epilogue episode that extends the story past its original end point. With stuff like Creepshow, he produced the film, starred in a segment and adapted some prior stories while writing whole new stories just for the movie, while in Creepshow 2, he produced it and an older story of his was adapted to the screen, but other writers did the other segments. Then there's stuff like Maximum Overdrive, where he actually directed the adaptation of one of his weirder stories while higher than a kite, or Storm of the Century where he wrote an original teleplay for the screen based on no prior work other than an unpublished draft he never finished for a novel or short story. Then there's the Darabont movies, which offer different ranges when it comes to success and faithfulness to their source material, with King even declaring that he prefers some of the changes in these adaptations to his original works (particularly in the case of The Mist). Like, King's stuff just offers a pretty vast array for comparison when it comes to the concept of analyzing adaptations on so many different aspects of faithfulness, quality of the end product, audience agreement with either his book version or the film version . . . the whole thing is practically a genre unto itself!

@AC-dk4fp

19 күн бұрын

@@MidlifeCrisisJoe Its not a mistake because you'd need a whole dedicated podcast series on Steven King adaptations for precisely that reason. You can make a two point scale out of the Mario movies. Philip K Dick would be more managable than King but still need more than 50 minutes padded with jokes. As Patrick says in the first quarter its just an introduction to Adaptation studies. You could get a masters and a PHD out of looking at King (and I'm sure people have).

Some ideas for meaningful Mario adaptations (feel free to steal): - Kid mastering game in honor of dead friend who loved it while Mario struggles with meaninglessness of repetition and lack of freedom of will before the two meet and reconcile - Mario and Luigi disagreeing on whether or not we can be the “hero” before Luigi helps Mario save Peach in the end - Villain origin story of Bowser and anti-hero take on Mario/Luigi - Plumber backstory = Italian mafia conspiracy with Mario and Luigi part of an international plot for Italian-Japanese gangsters to control minds and pocketbooks (critique of capitalism) - etc. (only requires creativity and love!)

Oh I am locked the fuck IN for this

as the sole member of my friends and family who LOVES the '93 Mario- and I mean LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVES IT- this video makes me sooooo happy.

"What is the goal of a video game film adaptation anyway?" Patrick I swear if you don't answer your own question with "print money" I'm applying as a writer

@Sleth0theoriginal0

Ай бұрын

43:51 Thanks mate

Its honestly funny you bring up Edge of Tomorrow, and then dont note that it itself IS an adaptation of the manga "All you need is Kill"

I always find it a bit disingenuous when someone my age says that the 1993 movie was a crushing disappointment at the time because it feels revisionist. Speaking from experience as a 9 year old kid who didn't know any better sitting in that theater in 1993 I had the time of my life. There were a couple plumbers named Mario & Luigi wearing Red & Green and jumping around, a bad guy called King Koopa, a dinosaur named Yoshi and little references my developing brain felt proud & excited to recognize like a Bob-omb wearing Reeboks (fucking hilarious to 9 year old me), or a Super Scope-I never once thought "well THIS isn't Mario". I didn't care what the Goombas or Toad looked like, the movie called them Goombas & Toad, so I accepted the reality. I was watching a Mario LIVE ACTION MOVE!? What?! How can life get better? It was only as an adult down the line that I finally thought "oh wait that Mario movie was fucking weird huh? That's not what goombas look like!" However I still love the darn thing for being so brazenly weird and loose with the source material even as someone who can now actually recognize that it's an extremely flawed production. I dunno I kind of dig the grungy, cyber-punk-y aesthetic, especially because the IP is now so thoroughly sanitized and controlled by Nintendo (thanks in no small part to this movie) that something like this would never see the light of day. I kind of miss the days when Mario could be Bob Hoskins motorboating a large woman or Captain Lou Albano rapping in front of a green screen. When IP wasn't so heavily policed by its rights holders. An era very nearly the exact opposite of the current media landscape.

@zufalllx

Ай бұрын

Thats because you didnt know any better.

@Wendy_O._Koopa

Ай бұрын

I'd argue that people liking it is the revisionism. It was a huge commercial failure, and everyone hated it, until they got drunk off nostalgia and now it's one of those tragic stories about the summer of '93 that they can look back on and laugh now. It was thoroughly unpleasant to live through, but now that they've had 30 years to process just how mind-numbingly bad that movie was, it seems okay. If you were 9 and didn't see anything wrong, you must have been taking the short bus to school because there are certain developmental milestones I'm confident you missed out on.

@KairuHakubi

Ай бұрын

@@Wendy_O._Koopa Um... you know why the short bus is short? Because there aren't as many special-needs kids as there are regular-needs kids.. Now look at how many people thumbed up Gomer, vs how many thumbed up you. Not saying consensus makes me right, just maybe you're the one whose mental state could use improvement.

@JediMB

Ай бұрын

​@@Wendy_O._KoopaBeing unsuccessful isn't the same thing as being disliked by the kids who did see it. Personally, I was 9 years old and rarely watched any movies in theaters, so to me Super Mario Bros. was a video rental and I loved it. As an adult, I still do, but for very different reasons.

@Wendy_O._Koopa

Ай бұрын

@@JediMB Still, _most_ kids who saw it disliked it. It was the punchline to every joke for two decades, until weirdos who liked it ironically started sprouting up recently. If I take it on faith that they've always been there, they're still the outliers.

I can’t stop looking at Patrick’s sweater.

@ErmenBlankenberg

Ай бұрын

It was the same for me.

I think we are slowly getting better at game adaptations, I think why they haven't worked for so long is because to put it simply....people don't understand what makes the respective mediums great. They don't play to the strength of the medium they are adapting to. Yes, it is a big loss to lose interactivity when adapting a game to a linear cinematic format, but there should be so much to gain as well. Btw, this part was especially interesting to me, because seeing as you are very much a film based person I was fully expecting you to bring up some of the upsides cinema can provide over video game adaptations, whereas your point of video game adaptations feeling like a downgrade and losing a key element is something very often brought up by people more focused on video games. I think you're very much correct with noticing this problem, but I believe the problem is just as much of an opportunity. Too many adaptations tried to just go in with the idea of "This is just like the game, except it's a movie now" without actually trying to make it a movie. A movie should and even needs to be different from the game, it should take the necessary elements and tell the story with them in a different suitable way.

I think the most interesting thing about videogame adaptations is looking at what they choose. Many of the ones I can think of off the top of my head are typically games from the period where most were light on story but heavy on gameplay. If you were to make them 100% faithful, It would be an exposition dump at the beginning, a conversation pushing you toward the next area every 20 or so minutes of film time, and a lot of watching a character solving puzzles or just mowing down antagonistic elements. When so much of the source material is playing the game, I don't think film can capture that kind of feeling. Its hard to make 30 minutes of running back and forth to get the weird puzzle pieces in order to open a door in a police station a la Resident Evil 2 feel right on film. I'm just hopeful that this next wave of videogame adaptations will continue in the footsteps of The Last of Us or Arcane. It's nice to have something I can point at and say "See, videogames aren't just pac-man and Fortnite." Sure, they may never play Oxenfree or Nier Replicant/Automata, but at least they might be more interested in the stories videogames can tell than just writing them off as silly timewasters for kids.

@KairuHakubi

Ай бұрын

That said, I feel like we used to get movies about that kind of thing, we just thought of them as "travel movies" or "escape movies" or just.. you know, like Milo and Otis, just characters trying to get through hazards and dangers. If it was the right kind of game, i THINK you could adapt that. but it would be weird, and it would need really, really good writing and characterizations to keep us caring about who these people are and why they're solving all these puzzles.

I've not played the Mario games but I thought the recent Mario Bros movie was pretty fun. I knew it was adapting a lot of stuff, but as someone mostly unfamiliar, it felt pretty gonzo and silly and enjoyable.

For Patrick Replies. While I almost entirely agree with you on the games having little to no story, you do only talk about the early games. Granted, the later games are also very light on story, yet they do contain some more narrative depth. Mario Sunshine being the most notable example.

@bobodo45

Ай бұрын

Adding to what you're saying, Mario Galaxy had the storybook outlining Rosalina's backstory. Mario Odyssey (even if it's light on direct story) contains a lot of great worldbuilding with a lot of its real-world cultural inspirations and flavor text outlining major landmarks and facets.

If someone ever makes a faithful adaptation of Jurassic Park (novel: "We are witnessing the end of the scientific era."), that will be another sample to submit to this test.

For me the core question of whether an adaption is good or not is not whether it has 1-1 visual/textual fidelity to the source, but rather does it integrate the core emotional truths of the source in a compelling manner. Both Mario movies make the same flaw in this regard, neither gives you the emotional feeling of going through the color environments beating tough puzzles and levels or the catharsis when you finally beat Bowser in the end. As you alluded to that is one of the toughest things with adapting Mario is because it relies so heavily on the interactivity that adapting it to film is tough. However, the couple of game adaptions that pulled it off (IMO) do hit that core emotional appeal even if the source itself isn't inherently ripe for adaption. The two recent Sonic films come to mind because while the source games are just as interactive dependent as Mario, there was enough grains of character and zaney attitude in them that those films managed to tap into it and make people enjoy them alot more; it was faithful in that respect. Even The Last of Us, while more narratively dense than Sonic or Mario, could've easily had been adapted where the iconography is there (character names, places, etc.) but without the emotional heart of the games...however it seems they managed to pull that off. In a way, one mistake Hollywood (and I'd even argue some of the fandoms of the source material do as well) make is look at the iconography of the source and use it as a form of pop culture idolatry where the names and symbols are the source of emotional truth itself rather than the underlying meanings those things are supposed to convey. That's where both Mario movies faltered for me.

I think you forgot to mention that movie adaptations can be a source of advertisement. For the release of the movie, they released a special version of the console that includes a Mario game, basically saying “As seen in the movie”. I feel like PlayStation is following the same strategy with the movies Uncharted and Grand Turismo. Nintendo’s case is special because they said that they wanted to venture into more forms of entertainment; the movie is also an advertisement of the new theme park in Universal Studios. That being said, I think that for a Mario movie to be good in itself, it has to adapted like the “Blank canvas” approach, as seen in Super Mario RPG. That game engages with the source material but adds new elements to the existing lore: New characters, new environments and locations, and a narrative that deviates from the original games, giving it an unique motive not present in other Mario games. Anyway, good video Patrick! Hope this comment makes it to the Patrick Replies video 🫣

My belief is that the reason was after decades of video game adaptations that weren’t being close to the source material Out of fear of them not feeling general audience friendly doing a faithful Mario movie was the safest bet, both financial and general audience wise.

@benwasserman8223

Ай бұрын

Closest those early adaptations got was the original Mortal Kombat, and even then it just had to reverse-engineer Enter the Dragon with fantasy elements. Of course they botched it with Annihlation and even the new films feel like retreads of the 1995 adaptation.

@digitaljanus

Ай бұрын

​@@benwasserman8223 But that makes sense, since every early fighting game was just a video game adaptation of Enter the Dragon, just like all the early beat-'em-ups are video game adaptations of Game of Death or The Warriors. The adaptation cycle has always gone both ways.

@iopohable

Ай бұрын

you realize not all video games are from nintendo, right?

@BugsyFoga

Ай бұрын

@@iopohable yes not sure why you had to point that out

@madnessarcade7447

Ай бұрын

The safest movie was the biggest risk because fans weren’t expecting it

I have a degree in multimedia storytelling! :D Honestly, video games actually have the potential to produce better art than most mediums due to their interactivity. But obviously the communities and content most media focuses on when it comes to video games, it makes critics take them FAR less seriously.

@thomasffrench3639

Ай бұрын

Multimedia storytelling is fascinating. One thing that I like about Star Wars is how it excels in many different mediums such as games, animation, television, comics and obviously film. Now I’m only hesitant to say novels just for how rich of a history that novels have and it’s hard to call those the peak of the medium, at leas in the case of Star Wars

@dymoure

Ай бұрын

@@thomasffrench3639 Star Wars is a great example of successful adaptation! For example, I think the KOTOR games are on par with the Original Trilogy. To be completely honest, I think I may like KOTOR more when it comes to certain things.

@thomasffrench3639

Ай бұрын

@@dymoureKOTOR is actually what got me back into video games as a medium. As far as film goes, I actually hold the original Star Wars trilogy in quite high esteem and for KOTOR to match it in terms of storytelling in a lot of different ways made me realize the power of game storytelling. It also made me remember that games are just fun to play, which is mostly what I’ve been doing as I’m mostly playing retro games with a few RPGs in between that tell some good stories with fun customization mechanics. It’s just a pleasure to realize how many different mediums have their own strengths when it comes to storytelling. Comics have a lot of freedom of pacing, film uses sensory overload to tell stories, and video games have a lot more room for smaller moments with dialogue and worldbuiling that doesn’t need to progress the plot and interactivity. Also love that each medium has different ways to approach the imagination of the audience/player/reader.

I dug into adaptation theory for my master thesis back in grad school (my project was Heart of Darkness and it's adaptations). Adapting a story from one medium to another requires a significant degree of translation because they have such vastly different narrative devices. Adaptations that try to make that translation 1:1 might make fans happy, but they tend to ignore the strengths of the new medium.

@thomasffrench3639

Ай бұрын

I feel like it all depends on the story. Isn’t The Godfather a very faithful adaptation? Because that is considered one of the best films of all time

I maintain that there is a purely aesthetic value in adaptations of games like Mario with thin narratives... if the adaptations commit to being as aesthetically different from the source games as possible. Not in a design sense, but in a textural sense. IE: if it's a game with 2D animation, you could use live action or 3D animation. If it's a game with 3D animation, you could use live action or 2D animation. And furthermore, if you go for live action, one ought to make as much of the sets, costumes, creatures, etc. practical as physically possible. I've often thought about this in the context of Metroid. Sure, you could easily make a Metroid movie with CG animation and it could still be compelling as long as you go for something with little to no dialogue and commit to the atmospheric, visual storytelling endemic to Metroid, but it would still feel more like watching someone else play the game. However, if you make a practical suit for Samus, big puppets and animatronics for all the aliens and big elaborate sets for the world of Zebes, then I think you've really got something. Also DOA: Dead or Alive is the best video game movie don't @ me.

A variety of thoughts. There was a Mario Video Game about the two brothers being plumbers. It's 'Mario Bros' (no Super) for the Atari 2600. It's a platformer where the two brothers venture into the sewers in order to battle various monsters coming out through the pipes. To me, the ideal Mario Brothers movie exists midway between the two along the spectrum. It's a fantasy adventure (what the kids today are calling an Isekai) where heroes from our world travel through a portal (or in this case, a sewer pipe) into a surreal fantasy world with strange new rules and dangers. The major selling point being that, instead of a bold, impetuous young warrior, it's a pair of working class Italian plumbers from Brooklyn. And instead of the standard D-grade Tolkien knock-off or D&D-a-like setting, it's all koopas and yoshis and toadstools and magic bricks. On the idea of fidelity as the defining characteristic of quality, I'd have to consider Robert Rodriguez' 'Sin City' which was so close to its source material that it felt hollow to me. I'd already HAD this experience reading the comic and seeing the film felt like sitting there while someone read the comic to me again. Meanwhile, one of the greatest adaptations is 'Blade Runner' which bears almost no resemblance to 'Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?' (or 'Speed Racer', which tosses so much of the original manga and anime out the window while maintaining and actively enhancing the heart of the original source material - the bonds of familial love - while introducing a secondary theme about the heartlessness of capitalism which is almost completely absent from the comics or tv cartoon).

@masonasaro2118

Ай бұрын

your ideal mario movie was the very first draft of the ‘93 film. it’s getting a comic adaptation by a fan though, so maybe check it out (it’s called super mario bros: fantasy)

the existential horror of being the "jumpman" thrust into the unknown dangerous black magic koopa kingdom, without control is the movie we need

FINALLY SOMEONE SAID IT I will sleep well tonight

The thing with Mario is that it's a particularly "gamey" game series. Pretty much all of its strength is in things that are fundamental to video games as a medium, like it's tight and responsive controls, rewarding mechanics, and clever level design, while it's extremely light on plot and characterisation. The movie wasn't really that "faithful" in those things, it was more just faithful in the aesthetics of adapting the games. The plot and characters were thin but a lot more fleshed out than the games, but since those were never that essential, fans didn't care that they were different. Tbh I think that while having more depth would have arguably made it a better film, it would have made a worse adaptation, because it's supposed to just have a very simplistic story and characters. I think it's fun as basically a 90 minute Easter egg fest for fans, and as a passable animated movie for kids otherwise. I also think interest will wane a bit for sequels because most of the value was just in the novelty of all this beloved game stuff appearing in a mainstream Hollywood film.

@MichaelSotoCE

Ай бұрын

To me a good adaptation is a good movie. Making a movie better by fleshing things out does not make it a worse adaptation. Besides they could easily adapt something like TTYD there's tons of story there

@caffetiel

Ай бұрын

I'm not so sure it's passable? It felt like a discount Dreamworks movie with Mario shit bolted onto it. A cinematic Funko Pop

@yungmuney5903

Ай бұрын

Paper mario and M&L series would like to have a word with you.

This is the third title and thumbnail in 3 days

As a kid who was an insanely big fan of super mario games, I was one of the few kids who actually loved the movie and how different it was. I watched that 93 movie so much that my family absolutely hated me. At such a young age, I thought it was brilliant that it was identical and was an awesome take on the mario universe

Not mentioning that Edge of Tomorrow is steals the ideas and story of the manga "All You Need Is Kill" is a massive unforgivable sin.