An important thing to note is that Egwene was in there for WEEKS in the book. Weeks. She’s tough.

They were suspicious of Lan because they found the poem about Lanfear in his bag. Love your reactions girl!!

@maxsilva11

10 ай бұрын

I suspect they didn't really believe he might be a darkfriend, they were bluffing to get him to reveal what he's really up to

@oberon9015

10 ай бұрын

Yeah, why would Lan learn about Lanfear's awakening, hide the information, then run off in the middle of the night?

@julieyounga8933

10 ай бұрын

@@maxsilva11 that's very interesting and makes sense!

@jwsel

10 ай бұрын

Or Lan was testing them. He knew he was being followed all the time, but he let Maxsim see him pull the poem out of his saddlebag. Plus, his lie about being banished from the tower was obviously something Alanna would know to be false. I suspect Lan deliberately set this up so that he could get back to Moiraine with Suian’s help (along with allies) since he knows Moiraine would try to do everything alone. Seeing that Alanna and her warders were prepared to kill Lan if they thought he was a Darkfriend proved they could be trusted.

Moiraine said she hasnt slept in days. I think its because she doesnt want to be vulnerable to Lanfear in the dream world. I'd be moody too XD

Stubbornness and spite can carry you far, but everyone has a breaking point. No one is immune from human psychology.

@ShantalhaitianPrincess

9 ай бұрын

Lol thats what you think some of us can hold out for ever

@alananimus9145

9 ай бұрын

@@ShantalhaitianPrincess so you are saying you are inhuman? The US military and spy services have entire courses on how to resist such tactics. The one thing they all agree on and have research upon research to demonstrate is that everyone has a break point. Be it subtle tactics or more overt apply enough pressure and anyone will break.

I don't think Moiraine is just sad about losing the one power. Her life mission has been to find the dragon reborn and make sure he doesn't go to the dark side, prepare him to fight fhe dark one. Now, she not only can't channel, but feels she is losing and failing her life mission and not in control of things. She also just can't tell things to her family, everyone can be a dark a friend or the person who knows about fhe dragon can be in danger. She pushed Lan away and pushes everyone away cause in her mind that's the way to keep them safe. I think people that say Moiraine is just being annoyning just forgot that she will do whatever she thinks she has to do so the dragon don't break the world even if it means pushing everybody away from you. Also, I apologize any mistake, english is not my first language 😅

Moirane is still bound by the Oaths, so she cannot lie. But she also dare not tell her family the truth, for two different reasons: 1) It would endanger them; 2) it would endanger the world in general, and the operations of Moirane and the Amyrlin in particular. So the emotional pressures on Moirane are extremely intense and dissonant.

@RobTheBobSanchez

10 ай бұрын

Stilling removes the oaths, at least in the books it does.

@crystalolson1980

10 ай бұрын

​@@RobTheBobSanchezyou must remember if she believes she's stilled she can say she is even if she isn't. We have seen instances this season where she can't lie or omit the truth.

We book readers are totally not surprised by the reactions of non-book readers to Egwene's story arc. We went through the same when we read it. But the fact we already read that story arc helps us process what we're seeing on screen more objectively....in spite of the fact that the on-screen presentation is even more dramatic than the written version of the story. The show's presentation is--quite uncharacteristically--more "book" than the book! Both of the actresses deserve major acting awards for their performances in this episode.

@astronaimee7215

10 ай бұрын

I agree that Madeline Madden and Xelia Mendes-Jones (Renna actor) deserve all the awards, but as a heads up, Xelia goes by He/They

It is mentioned in the books of a Damane who thought about using her fingernails to scratch out a Sul'dam's eyes. She had to pull out her own fingernails to stop the pain. Anything can be a weapon? Thinking like that is not safe for one of the collared

The reality is that you wouldn't have died if you were in Egwene's position. The a'dam wouldn't let that happen. The physical and psychological torture that she is going through would break any one eventually.

The spirit can be broken when the one power is perceived as better than life itself. And they won't kill you, you are just a pet that needs more training. Fucking Seanchan lol

Such a difficult, infuriating episode. I'm with you, I could never have managed what Egwene did. I would have gone all Giles Corey and died early. You did raise a good point though, a weapon is all about how you think. Aes Sedai have those rules that restrict wha they can and can't do, but they're always finding loopholes, always pushing those to max flexibility, accomplishing things one might think they shouldn't be able to due to the oaths. Air can be a weapon. Water can be a weapon. The stone floor can be a weapon. I don't think the pitcher stopped holding the potential to be a weapon, to be used for violence. After all, it was a weapon being used against Egwene. Of course it's a weapon and holds to capacity to be used violently. But maybe Egwene mentally negotiated with herself to believe she would never use it specifically to harm Renna. And in that mental side-stepping, she gained the ability to keep surviving (being able to drink water, since she was starting to die from thirst), and a bit more time with 'training' being done for the day. And Maigan speaking to her after the fact to let her know she held out for abnormally long (Blues have to be exceptionally strong mentally, since they're the ones with the secrets, the ones darkfriends would pursue for interrogation), I think that just renewed Egwene's will. There may be a fracture in the foundation, but I don't believe she's broken yet.

One of the darkest plot lines in the books. It’s even worse in the books cause she describes the feeling of the collar in gruesome detail.

@rantalmore

10 ай бұрын

Honestly I think it’s worse in the show. It’s a whopping like 2 paragraphs of detail in the book

@fluffy_walrus

10 ай бұрын

@rantalmore Yeah, the arc from the trio realizing Liandrin's a darkfriend and abducting them to the end of this arc for Egwene is under 100 pages later in the book iirc (with whole chapters unrelated to Egwene taking up much of that page count). It definitely hurt reading Egwene's internal narrative of what was done to her, and her speaking about it, but the show really made it visceral and had us watch what RJ had happen off screen in the books so to speak.

@raschillinger

10 ай бұрын

The Seanchan will not kill a Damane, they’re far too valuable. And a Damane literally cannot do anything without permission, including commit suicide.

@DeadsySedai

10 ай бұрын

@@rantalmoreIt’s worse in the book some ways and worse in the show some ways. They didn’t quite explain in the show that the sul’dam can make them feel anything they want, eg being skinned alive or boiled. Or that the sul’dam can sense their emotions at any time.

that last shot of Egwene has lead me to believe that once gurly gets the change she's going to F shit UP!! also I've not read the book so this is just my thoughts ...

@axisjack7

10 ай бұрын

That final shot was not of someone who was broken. That was the look of someone FULLY pissed off and ready to let somebody know about it.❤

I am a strait dude. Over 50 and a straight decendant of Vikings. This hurt like a motherf####er. These are some evil people😱 I know I willl never know the trauma that you feel watching this, but this was some bad bad shit. Welcome to the seanchen 😱

You are asking the right questions (for Moiraine: "Why you gotta be an asshole to everyone?) and having an appropriate reaction to certain characters and circumstances (Renna and Egwene).

A little context with the treesinging and Loial: treesinging is a sacred thing for the Ogier, and a rare gift at that. Sung wood is precious and sought after. To be reduced to using it as a party trick is deeply shameful.

Exactly MM. Sat down and not react. She was going to get her a$$ beat regardless.

Lol omg I had a similar issue with food growing up! My parents wouldn't let me leave the table till I ate all my food on my plate and every night for months I sat at the dinner table till bedtime 😂

Moraine is being rude not because she lost the power. It is because she is afraid she will be a burden and not be able to protect those around her and not be able to achieve her goals. Her goals is the Dragon Reborn fighting and winning over the dark one. She knows it is a self unliving mission. When she had power, she would be able to protect other if it need be, ensuring the least amount of damage possible. Now she has not that luxury, she knows everyone around her will be harm by the forsaken, if the forsaken think that would stop Moraine. Add that the stress of not knowing who is or could be a dark friend. She sends Lan away so Lan will not die protecting her, while she can't protect him with the one power. Moraine is not in pain because she lost the one power. Moraine lost her value to herself because she lost the one power.

I have to say, hearing the american accent from the mouths of the slavers in a fantasy series is some damn fine commentary. Their accent is described in the books, but it hits different seeing/hearing it.

There's no such thing as a person immune to being 'broken'. Your story with your mother was just her showing tough love. What Egwene goes through is hardcore conditioning with a device specifically developed to facilitate it, with no possibility of killing yourself. There is no one on the planet who would withstand this process, no matter their bravado.

If Moiraine is indeed cut off from the Source, the only thing keeping her from voluntarily ending her mortal presence is her focus on getting The Dragon to face the Dark One and winning. Everything else is a distraction that may lead to her doing the deed and not helping to save Creation itself.

This was a great episode. This is the first episode that I really liked Egwene. What a strong performance.

I have enjoyed watching your non-reader reactions. This was one of the toughest episodes to watch. Do you think Egwene is broken?

@hellzzonearth

10 ай бұрын

I want her to come back with a vengeance and kick that tricks booty!!!

Your immediate reaction to Renna introducing herself, girl I fell out.😂 And omg I said the same thing, WHY would you try to grab that bracelet when she clearly deliberately left it in your reach and walked away? Like... ??? I know, I get it, desperation will make people illogical, but still.😂

Everyone is so hard on Moiraine, 😅 she is dealing with a lot, cut her some slack!😂 - losing the one power makes channelers feel like part of their soul has been cut out, so it's not just about being upset - she can't sleep because one of the most evil and powerful women in the world is waiting for her there - and she is losing control of her mission, which is to LITERALLY protect the world both from the Dragon and his enemies. Let Moiraine have room to be stressed, people. She just can't deal with your butter sandwich right now okay!😭

Of course, Egwene. Go freakin get your girl Rand!!!!

@Adanu191

10 ай бұрын

She's not his girl, hasn't been since the first episode. Definitely go rescue her, though.

Egwene cant believe no one is coming for her!!! I hope she uses this experience and stays good!!!

The greatest episode for sure. Ot/ I'd like to see you playing Starfield (expecially side missions)

When i read this the first time it was disturbing and it was disturbing to watch. I don't think anyone can keep resisting when dying of thirst btw. Good reaction :)

you kept saying you'd have already been dead. but you wouldn't. because you can't touch anything you beleive to be as a weapon. and you can't attack them. you can't even die cos they won't let you. you dont have free will, that's the thing.

@ManicMeeks

10 ай бұрын

Naw they would have killed me or I would have starved to death.

@DeadsySedai

10 ай бұрын

@@ManicMeeksThey would just force liquid calories down. Damane are too valuable.

@taegiseoktrash8874

10 ай бұрын

They wouldn't allow you to die, so even if they torture you, to break your spirits they wouldn't kill you, they wouldn't starve you @@ManicMeeks

The Aes sedai are late to the party and didnt they know the possibility of ish popping off!!!

Yes Egwene can touch the sul’dam, but it will hurt Egwene twice as much as it hurts the sul’dam. So her pain tolerance needs to be really high. And hurting the sul’dam will not get her out of the collar. We see that she has not gotten out of it even when the sul’dam is out of the room. I don’t think you would be able to die. You would be force fed if you didn’t break due to unbearable pain that can be causes by the a’dam.

This part of Egwene's story is a tough read. They did a good job. The Seanchan are brutal when it comes to channelers.

Welcome to the seanchen. Oh you are going to love to hate them👍

"Sister Strongjaw" versus the "Book-cloaks," who would win?

Also, I know it is not the case, but the face that Ryma (the yellow aes sedai) made after she told Nynaeve to put a little power and she unleaded a whole thing, makes me think she's saying "Bitch, why?".

We're they not together in s1? Homie, lover, friends lol Egwene believes he's dead at Rand's choice, btw. So, hmmmm, where's the closure???

They gonna break your spirit. You'll get tired of almost dying.

Nynaeve needs to step the "F" up already!!!

No sympathy for sister strongjaw.

ITA about Moraine. So over her.