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@geoffreyouvrard7585

Ай бұрын

Hi, can we still get a gameplay review ?

@alchemyty

Ай бұрын

I play wotlk classic and I can't help but think 400 rating sounds like absolutely nothing. Is retail wow ratings shrunk by a magnitude or something?

@kaiserstritz136

Ай бұрын

You complain about pvp yet you sell boost. YOU are the problem too!

@IrOfLaTtHeMoOn

Ай бұрын

I miss gear upgrades. For me personally I quit after 2-3 months due to the lack of progression. I miss the days where you could push higher rating and get rewarded by upgrading your gear. I used to help a few PvE bro's in PvP, teaching them the mindset and the flow of battle, my higher PvP ilvl would help keep me alive to assist/help them enjoy the game mode. They would get so excited each time we hit a new rating, upgrade that gear, test it out, enjoy the extra dps and survivability. Now you basically max your conquest each week and log off to play other games. Once you are max conquest there's nothing more to do. You beat the game, wait until next season.

@IrOfLaTtHeMoOn

Ай бұрын

I feel like the removal of progression helps high ranked players to play and try out a bunch of alts. It doesn't however entice many others players to PvP, because what's the point.

Thank God skill capped is around to present this information in a professional and courteous manner. Hopefully the powers that be are listening.

@casper09512

Ай бұрын

Blizzard hasn't listened since legion launch I doubt they will now

@user-xm3zm6im3k

3 күн бұрын

blizz has their own charts and diagrams.. at this stage the only solution is dedicated team that would lead whole new Wow focused on pvp. i mean we allready have different versions of the game..

@casper09512

3 күн бұрын

@@user-xm3zm6im3k the thing is Blizzard had always been more focused on pve and honestly it takes quite some time and devotion to change everything about pvp. I'm not saying it can't be done but it's a huge risk because even if they bring in pvp focused developers it doesn't mean they won't make it worse and they would be risking alienating the rest of the wow pvp community. Stuff should be addressed but it shouldn't be sweeping changes because history of wow has proved that sweeping changes make people angry.

The sarcasm on SkillCapped videos is phenomenal. W for whoever responsible

@TheNaqoyqatZ

Ай бұрын

FR. This is the funniest and most accurate one to date.

I can't believe I survived all of Shadowlands and DragonFlight is what made me quit.

@AkiRa22084

Ай бұрын

Both were/are fun for PvP and for PvE.

@lifescaption

Ай бұрын

@@AkiRa22084 entirely subjective - I'm happy you're enjoying it, though.

@AkiRa22084

Ай бұрын

@@lifescaption So is Julian then. Subjective or not, it's more popular than Classic, according to addon downloads and it's the most popular MMO on the market.

@lifescaption

Ай бұрын

@@AkiRa22084 my response is not mutually exclusive to either statement. It is in follow up what in text appears to be a matter-of-fact statement. And 'fun' - is entirely subjective and non-objective. I was not commenting on population and how it compares to the rest of the MMOs on the market.

@whynotlin7998

Ай бұрын

I had a ton of fun SL season 1. Then they brought in Torghast and mandatory 30 chores per day per character; that made me quit

As an 1800 player, its hard to learn and keep up in general. I feel like now more than ever i run into boosters,high ranked peeps pushing alts or streamers doing challenges for content

@gaugamela4759

Ай бұрын

Aw boo hoo

@finkruse3819

Ай бұрын

​@@gaugamela4759he's rights. 1800 I'd weird as you mostly already reach peak games where I'd not so much room for mistake so from 1800 up its just a sweat

@rufuofrome

Ай бұрын

@@gaugamela4759 Your mode will always be dead as long you can't just log in and play well being on an even playing field.

@TheOaxOaxOax

Ай бұрын

Like playing vs high ranked players is fun..if you win you feel good..if you lose, you can learn and try to be better..whats sad is when you meet total mongoloid and you see he is bad but lose cause pvp class designs..thats sad

@Eladra57

Ай бұрын

The more dead PvP is the worse this gets too. You're more likely to come across glads playing alts because no one else is playing lol

Plunderstorm has: - fast queue times - rewards at every renown level - few abilities that are simple to understand - no addons Rated pvp has: - extremely slow queue times (solo shuffle) - rewards at 1800, 2100, 2400 with not much else - very slow and inconsistent honor rewards and grind - very many abilities, requires studying online guides on what other classes can do - visual clutter - addons that provide unfair advantages - lack of info in the UI that requires using said addons - lack of large-scale rated pvp, except RBGs, which are almost impossible to get into

@Kanoog

Ай бұрын

They don't know how to balance the game correctly - Small changes to OP clases and weak classes. Each patch I'm always concerned what the next Flavor of the Month will be, see MASSIVE nerfs across the board and a entire Rework to Ret Paladins to one shot and instant heal to full. HUH???? Ret Rework is one exmaple of a ton.

@AkiRa22084

Ай бұрын

Plunderstorm abilities are not simple. It's so frustrating that ConsolePort addon does not work there. Solo Shuffle queue is slow because players don't want to heal. Addons are the best, learn to program them yourself if you have issues there.

@joshsmith3893

Ай бұрын

If you find Plunderstorm abilities to be too complex idk what to tell you lol. They’re all very straightforward with easy to read animations.

@DankMemes-xq2xm

Ай бұрын

@@AkiRa22084 "are not simple" horrible bait.

@shaneprince6572

Ай бұрын

@@AkiRa22084 Plunderstorm abilities are not simple. please be trolling

Man, you guys really nailed this one. The section on mobility and micro CC especially hit home. You perfectly described my issues with PvP. The melee uptime on casters is insane, and trying to get a cast off through the micro CC makes you want to pull your hair out. Oh, the Warlock ported on a 20-30 second CD? No worries, the Warrior has 2 charges, 1 leap, and 1 intervene. Oh, the Warlock ported the DK grip? No worries, he has another for you as soon as you show your face. And don't get me started on RBGs. You want to play a DoT class like Affliction or Ele? Good luck with 3 MW Monks pressing Revival every 30 SECONDS with ZERO backlash due to the Peaceweaver PvP talent. Add that to DH's that can Reverse Magic & Meld for another AoE dispel with ZERO backlash. Blizzard fixed Priests that could Mass Dispel & Fade, but left all this other crap in the game. I miss the good old days, so I'm currently leveling in WotLK for Cata RBGs.

@tttaaakkk111666

Ай бұрын

"Oh, the Warlock ported on a 20-30 second CD? No worries, the Warrior has 2 charges, 1 leap, and 1 intervene. Oh, the Warlock ported the DK grip? No worries, he has another for you as soon as you show your face." And the same with monks, dhs, rogues. Almost every melee can sit on you easily. I playing warlock with more than 13 years but this is the most painful, disgusting season ive ever played. You have to sweat your ass off for a single cast while getting tunneled with 150-250k instant melee hits. If this is not gonna change i think im off with wow pvp.

@jacobkenyon2299

Ай бұрын

ditto bro actually really excited for some cata pvp

"But you could join a solo shuffle queue right now, and watch this entire video before getting a pop!" 😭

@Steevvee

Ай бұрын

16 mins? yeah if im lucky its 16mins after 2k its more like 30

@finkruse3819

Ай бұрын

Not as a healer. But you could probably gain more raiting the me still 😂😂😂

@AkiRa22084

Ай бұрын

If you don't play a healer occasionally, you have only yourself to blame.

@bigpoopies789

Ай бұрын

​@@AkiRa22084yes i made a healer to donate to the queue once in a while lol all dps should pay the toll every so often 😂

@AkiRa22084

Ай бұрын

@@bigpoopies789 The more everyone plays healers occasionally the drastically shorter the queues will be. It's simple. Why are you having issues grasping this? Have you ever tried healing in Solo Shuffle? It's fun.

Absolutely awesome video, 100% behind every single point raised

I think the biggest issue for a lot of new players is that PvP just feels like "Oh.. I got stunned over and over and now I'm dead." or "Oh.. I have to get max conquest gear but can't win rated anything so getting that is the worst experience."

cata/mop game design was the most robust and deepest skill capped renditions of pvp and should serve as the basis for all pvp development

"Mechanics passed around like a joint at a Snoop Dog concert" xD

I was hard stuck at 1500ish RSS as a healer (disc priest) . Win or lose it was a very frustrating experience so I stopped playing. I would win a couple of games and get some points then I would lose one game and lose all they rating I had earned and then some, so it was a one step forwards two steps back kind of thing. Some of the things that really got under my skin were: Too much CC and micro CC and pets ( UI is nuts with so many nameplates) , too much damage on top of dampening, gear gaps and some classes have it far easier than others (resto druids, DHs, rets, etc.) The arena format favors some classes by their very design, melee mostly. as a caster, trying to cast was a nightmare, melee was always one ability away from connecting on to me and interrupting/stunning. no matter what escape I had, melee had 2 more to get back on to me all the while they are doing their PvE rotation to my face. My own team mates would LoS me all day, and all the while getting "you suck" :/I was always playing "catch up" and eventually I had enough. And so the 1800 transmog ( which was what I was after) was out of my hands, so why should I continue to play (and pay) for something that a) I don't enjoy. b) frustrates me and c) I will never have said reward?. why should I play? If bliiz just adds more rewards to RSS that are out of my hands,, well that doesn't solve any of the points I made above, so again, what's in it for me? why should I play RSS? Now Bgs is a whole different story, I get " omg great job heals" and all sorts of compliments ( either whispers or in BG chat) on my gameplay which makes me feel good, makes me feel useful and appreciated and my participation actually has an effect on the outcome of the game, it doesn't matter if I play my healer, a dps or my tank, there's a spot for me and a role I can fill to sway the outcome of the match. the problem is BGs are not "real pvp" for blizz, so you get nothing for doing them except for useless Honor and a pitiful amount of conquest. So why should I play?

@B-...

Ай бұрын

A battle pass reward system would help. Currently everyone wants rating. That means if you play all night and lose rating, you've wasted your time in a sense. A trading post/battle pass system would make you still feel like you're earning cool stuff. And for people like my gf, who can't really get 1800. PVP is just no reward city. Which is a shame because she loves bgs and does seem to enjoy arena, but not when there are rewards that are forever roped off. Obviously, the best stuff should be for skill, but average players should have lots to earn in pvp... the average/median healer is at 1600 currently. You could play 500 games at that score and you still don't have your seasonal gear set.

I just went 4-2 in a solo shuffle and gained 0 pts at 1735 rating and a 56 minute queue out of my 2 hours of gameplay I can afford on a day due to work/family, i am not asking for the gladiator mount but for blizzard not take players time for granted, S1 and S2 of DF felt I was at least getting somewhere, idk what they nerfed/buffed this season but it has to change, it is just not fun, as always, loved the video.

@finkruse3819

Ай бұрын

You can get glad mount from shuffle ?

@bigpoopies789

Ай бұрын

​@@finkruse3819no

@Er1kzZzoN

Ай бұрын

@@finkruse3819 no

@finkruse3819

Ай бұрын

@@Er1kzZzoN Then another reason to stay away from that as a Healer :D

lol the internet explorer analogy is so spot on!

I massively played WoW PVP during MoP and tried it again in dragonflight, I was overwhelmed and gave up

@Minimovex

Ай бұрын

MoP pvp was so good, miss it

@ALPHAHXCORE

Ай бұрын

MoP pvp was also fucking complicated :D

@AkiRa22084

Ай бұрын

@@ALPHAHXCORE PvP was always complicated, as it should be.

@originalPLUG

Ай бұрын

@@AkiRa22084 It was different complicated. Now its complicated in a dogshit way

@AkiRa22084

Ай бұрын

@@originalPLUG No, you are.

I was thinking about coming back for War Within than i saw that addon laden screen and... Nah I'm not doing that again.

Amazing video, I hope Blizzard is watching. One thing I want to disambiguate is the distinction between balance and homogenization. While perfect homogenization surely leads to perfect balance, you can have balance with heterogeneity (Rock-Paper-Scissor systems). I completely agree with your conclusion: it might be time to entirely separate pvp from pve as Blizzard has failed too long to try to juggle the balance of the two.

@williamanderson6006

Ай бұрын

They aren't subs are up nothing gonna change

One of the biggest hurdles the arena scene has faced is just how damn hard healing 3v3 arenas are. I've played WoW since 2004 and played tons of arena and even I was super intimidated by healing for the first time. That was with me (in theory 😅) knowing the basic premises and win conditions. I can't imagine being a new WoW player jumping into healing 3v3. 💀

The congestion in Shuffle queue is mainly caused by healing it being a miserable experience. As more healers left the mode, the queue time for DPS went up X3/X4. Initially the DPS queue wasn't this high. But people seem to have forgotten.

@finkruse3819

Ай бұрын

I'm sick of Warris running into the enemy while the pop all their Cds and bc of the jump they are behind a pillar ....😢

@B-...

Ай бұрын

It's a combination of healers not being able to keep people alive + micro cc hell. You just always feel underwater. Yet even if you're amazing and can keep your team alive, you're still relying on your team to secure a kill. It just never feels like you're clutching a win, just postponing a loss. Meanwhile a dps can hit a clutch cc and combo it into a kill with insane burst. Or more commonly, just plow dps like crazy. Still satisfying.

The intimacy of arena requires way too much knowledge of every class to rank up which attracts only the sweatiest players. The focus should be on BGs and Epic BGs if you want a larger audience to play PVP. Also focusing on maps where PVE players can contribute to victory like AV. Also, rewards should be obtainable for even the worst players if you want a larger audience. As long as something is more stressful than it is fun, people aren't going to play it.

@B-...

Ай бұрын

I'm a casual pvp, only ever gotten 2100, but I still love arena and watch awc, etc. I can eke out rewards. Interestingly enough my gf is a grinder, so she'll actually play more games than me, but because she's often stuck at 1300-1400... she just doesn't get rewards. Ever. No matter how many games she plays. Like the video says, that's a huge reason pvp is dead. Both of us don't think the rewards are worth it and we're both different styles of players. No matter who you are, PVP has a unique problem just for you, to make you want to quit.

Blizzard has been playing with fire for the longest time. The thing that they don't seem to understand is that the thing we got with wow is like a relationship (hear me out). At the beginning, you are pretty interested. If things go badly, you usually forgive some things because you CARE, so you work out those problems and try to find a solution to them. But if problems persist and keep getting worse, at some point, you lose interest to the point that you don't care, and you leave for good, most people wont tolerate being disrespected. There are things that aren't worth your time and effort anymore because it feels like you are the ONLY ONE in the "relationship" trying to fix them and work things out. That feeling is what I see in the majority of former PVP players and supporters, we are done fighting alone a fucking war that doesn't seem to end. We are demoralized and frustrated, there is no motivation or interest of gettng better as a game. Devs attittud is beyond unacceptable and we are finally noticing this. Fire burns and it hurts. Fire bad. We are tired of the heat. We are tired of being ignored. The difference now is most people dont care anymore and wont be back to the game. Devs finally made it and burned their playerbase to the point of no return. Everything has a limit. We got there.

@dark9nine

Ай бұрын

This

I stopped playing retail just before the last phase of MOP and i have been playing classic since the vanilla launch in Covid. When i watch a retail arena stream dude i have no idea wtf is going on anymore over there everyone is moving and no one is casting like you mentioned. very interesting video from someone who doesnt play retail anymore. keep it up!

@Kanoog

Ай бұрын

Don't worry, most people who play Arena don't know whats going on anymore.

@dimitrijansen9872

Ай бұрын

I still play and also have no clue what's going on. I press buttons and sometimes others die, sometimes I die. GG. 👌

@AkiRa22084

Ай бұрын

Git gud. It's purely a skill issue considering that Retail has more players than classic.

Cc and mobility is the main reason I don't pvp as a caster anymore, it just feels like you never get a chance to do anything

Talking about new player introduction to PVP. You really need to consider BGs even though this is about arena. Objective PVP is less intimidating for new players. Especially healers.

As players I think we can try to lift each other up. Be kind and forgiving of the guy who makes a mistake, encouraging of the person who does something well. Answer questions, give advice, sign up to play with the 0 CR person in LFG. Every player who gets turned away by toxicity makes the problem worse.

Thank you for distinguishing CC from microCC!

Loved this video. Specifically how you articulated how overwhelming cc has become which is something people have been predicting. I also like how you mentioned needing an Adderall prescription in order to even dial in enough to understand the chaotic gameplay. The problem is sitting in a 20 minute que on Adderall and foaming at the mouth

New player here (New to retail, years of playing Vanilla on pservs) These game is not FUN for me cause i got hit by a WALL with a BUS on top of it ! I don't want to have to learn 180 abilities effects and addons from 30 specs and then learn how to be aware of'em all with 12 addons ! Only to be able to play without getting facerolled in 8 seconds... Blizzard CORE Philosophy used to be "easy to learn" (have fun after a few minutes/hours because 9 classes have each ONE pvp spec and 2 or 3 major abilities to understand and absolutely no addon needed cause everything is visually understandable) with an almost linear curve of learning and progression... Nowadays before even being able to play at an AVERAGE CASUAL level you NEED 10 years of xp in the game or weeks to get your WOW PHD. This is NOT New player friendly.

What a fantastic and well-explained video that presents the problem and solutions clearly. Great job SkillCapped! Imo, addons are not even a factor the problem is just complexity and power creep. You can remove addons but the all the micro-CC and damage windows and clutteredness are still there. The classes and gameplay mechanics need to start again fresh. And that part of the game as you said sprung from M+ design which dictates so much because of its timer. And because of its timer you need to do big pulls and have tons of burst and cleave and CC and everything. I think of M+ didn't have a timer and pulls had to be smaller and more methodical it would take so much pressure off the game and clutteredness of gameplay that seeps into every game mode.

@AkiRa22084

Ай бұрын

They are changing M+ next season.

Pvp used to be a game of chess but now most classes just need to pve to win.

This sums exactly why feral feels so horrible. They took away powershifting years ago because it was so broken and yet today we get DHs... With all the passive slows/snares from AoE you are spending every global shifting instead of doing damage and generating combo points. Feral lost it's identity.

@AkiRa22084

Ай бұрын

Wait, define powershifting. You should lose a global for a free get out of jail card. You are melee with crazy mobility, how dare you complain? Did you not watch this video?

@OurBros

Ай бұрын

If you played a feral, you'd know it's among the worst melee specs in the game. Compared to its peak in cataclysm, its been nerfed into the shadow realm

@AkiRa22084

Ай бұрын

@@OurBros That is not how any of this works, every patch a different spec will be overpowered. Feral had multiple times on the top.

This was very well done, I'm just not sure they'll ever do anything about it.

It seems like 80% of players in the LFG system are "Glad XP 2.4 alt LF same XP"

@user-vh8gm8yh6q

Ай бұрын

in lfg u have almost only elite/glad rank 1 player, no one ask for duelist or rival 2,, or u ofc have conquest grind group or "just fun" or "chill" that disbands after 10 games max

@kossero

Ай бұрын

I get declined for these groups as 2300xp feels bad honestly.

@user-vh8gm8yh6q

Ай бұрын

@@kossero u need to grind in shuffle/2s elite then u go for 3s it helps a lot 1) for skill 2) for achi for inv , this season 2s is also good to push. istant que and good mmr, 3s eu lfg is absolutely discontinutive (pple leave after 1 los)and elitist

@user-vh8gm8yh6q

Ай бұрын

@@kossero getting 2.4xp in 3s witotuh 2.4xp before in 2s or shuffle is even harder for my opinion just wrong path.

I don’t want to be playing 3D chess while some DH is playing tic-tac-toe. Some classes are ridiculous, I shouldn’t have to read a near phd thesis to understand my rotation, the class,should be clear and obvious with what the rotation is

@DankMemes-xq2xm

Ай бұрын

Yup. Many classes have bad visuals too. Divine Shield is a good defensive because you can see the big glowy oval surrounding someone, same with Ice Block, you know not to continue attacking that target. Pain Suppresion? Pff, just some sparkles, not very obvious what it does or if you should switch targets. There is just too much visual clutter and simultaneously too little visual info to know what is going on without addons.

Venruki sent me. Great video. Very much on point. (I've quit wow ages ago over these exact issues, but keep coming back to wow content on youtube every now and then hoping that they'll fix them.)

Ability bloat of some classes is ridiculous, before I quit this expansion I was an arcane mage and it felt like I was playing the piano in at light speed to play at a high level and the other 2 specs where dog trash in PVP at that time. Most classes should feel like demon hunter does in term of abilities. Few, but impactful buttons should be the norm for specs with some outliers not the opposite as it is now, most classes are bloated with a few notable exceptions .

can't wait for the solo/duo ranked bgs. Arena deathmatch in nature is too sweaty for my old ass now.

I am not a PVPer, but the only thing that ever got me to actual do PvP in a game was dailies with worthwhile rewards. Guild Wars 2 has PVE and PVP dailies, I did both everyday because it got me gold. If PvP in wow had 3 dailies each day like "Participate in 1 Arena Match - 800gold" "Win one arena match - 800gold" "Participate in 1 Battleground - 800gold". Meaning if I do all the PvP dailies I make like 5k gold. Sure ill do that everyday. But right now, as a PvE player, PvP feels like a ton of stress for 0 reward.

@B-...

Ай бұрын

I prefer battle pass over dailies. It absolutely kills enjoyment of a game rushing home to try and log in every day. I'd much rather binge 7 matches on a day I'm feeling it, then 1 match every day for 7 days. The latter makes it feel like work. The former makes it feel like I'm rewarded for just playing.

I played PvP for several expansions and had a blast, but what holds me back from playing arena / rbg nowadays? Its not MMR, its not class balance, button bloat or smthng like this: Its simply: All the gladiators and boosters, which play tons and tons of characters and "smurf" with them in arena. So you eventually get to 2k+ Rating and face a multi glad player demotivates too hard. Another thing with RBG: Its really hard to take a step into it. Same thing with boosters here. RBG is dominated by a small amount of players, which play on several alts just to boost alts / buyers all the way up. Eventually you get to near 2k, and the circle repeats.

@B-...

Ай бұрын

Smurfing in pvp should result in account suspensions. Boosting should be banned. Games a joke until that happens.

There are no rewards that incentivize us to play, and a very high and unfriendly entry barrier for new players (UI, addons ecc..)

@petersirota5124

Ай бұрын

Reward is winning. What tf u want xD If u need drop some shit just go play pve.

@ed6852

Ай бұрын

lol this Peter guy must like his hour long qs

@Kanoog

Ай бұрын

@@petersirota5124 It's a GAME that is designed to give rewards for playing moron, tf you talking about. Back when Arena was worth a shit you would get weapons at 1850, shoulders at 2200. It felt good to push rank, now there isn't shit.

@B-...

Ай бұрын

@@petersirota5124 "Rewards in game aren't necessary" Wow, this is a brilliant thought, you should goto a game developer convention with that bit of wisdom lol. Every game has been doing it wrong apparently. Let's get rid of item drops in Diablo next! It's about the experience, not the rewards!

@petersirota5124

Ай бұрын

@@B-... Comparing diablo to wow is like comparing apples and pears. You are completely off

imo by far the biggest problem is the que times. to fix the endless wait for a que, change tanks in pvp to be full supports instead of pseudo dps.

My perspective is of someone who mainly raids for CE on every tier, does as many m+ as I need to gear up for raid progression (and then push enough score to easily join weekly runs for vault) and after that I pvp up to duelist just for the transmogs(I like to fill every armor set in my collections which means both elite and glad sets). Up until DF, the whole thing was pretty easy. Spend a 4 hours session at the start of each season to get to 1800+ and then week by week get to 2100. All that changed with the last season of Shadowlands though. Never have I seen SO MANY glad players in lower brackets. Meeting 2-3 glad players every 10 games when you are at 2k is ok, that's how you get better after all. But in late SL and DF after that, the moment you hit 1650-1700, you were seeing glad players in 8 out of 10 games. It was insane, I could barely get to 1900. On season 2 of DF I tried SS, did a couple of games as ret and I absolutely hated the wait times. I switched to holy, I get in, first game was at 2150 MMR and I don't even got pvp trinkets.Why the hell did the game throw me in duelist zone on my first game as holy? I didn't even have pvp trinkets. I lose 4/6. Second game is at 2050. I stabilize and 2k MMR by my 4th game in SS as holy and that makes zero sense. The good thing is that I got to 1900 rating in like...2 hours or less. Now, on season 3, I just cba pvping (mainly because the tier set's appearance sucks no matter the colour variation and secondly because I cba dealing with glads from my first games). So yeah, before DF, boosting really ruined pvp for most people especially in the last season of SL. Then SS came in DF and the wai times are just too much for non-healers, as a healer you get matched vs the most annoying specs that are a hell to play against so the gameplay is just not enjoyable. Do you remember which season was the healthiest pvp season we ever had? Shadowlands season 1. Do you remember why? Because all the pvers were jumping in to get challenger/duelist/glad weapons and trinkets. Is it ethical to ask pvpers/pvers to do content they are not part of just for "mandatory" upgrades? No. Is it healthy for both game types? Major YES and that's coming from a pver. You have seen it yourselves, without "new blood" in the arena, pvp just dies completely so you NEED a the pvers to get into pvp otherwise what you are seeing now will only get worse.

@bearcatcow

Ай бұрын

Decent post but saying shadowlands S1 was the healthiest season is absolute bonkers. Probably one of the worst pvp experiences anyone could have imagined, literal 1 shot covenant abilities with zero counter play. And the PVE community complained about the ilvl rewards from pvp causing imbalances early on in the season due to boosts etc, which is why they decided to make pvp ilvl. And you should look to push rating towards end of current season, I play 2200ish and it is not full of glads so I doubt the 1800s are at this point.

@ihalia

Ай бұрын

@@bearcatcow Balancing is always a problem and that's why we have constant tuning. Population is not something that can be easily solved though and that's why I described SL s1 as the healthiest. If you don't have a healthy population, the problems we are facing today are bound to arise. Back in SL s1, I remember most of my social circle jumpeed into arena, most got to 2.2k+ and the rest around 2k. They didn't complain simply because they didn't have to waste a lot of time. It was short, fun and atleast a welcome change compared to what we were doing on every new patch/expansion (m+ grind). We still had do grind m+ but atleast the monotony of that had been broken for a bit. The only people who complained for sl s1 were either the very competitive m+ players who didn't want to waste a single minute outside of m+ or the absolute worst of pvers who couldn't get past 1500 rating. Everyone in between had a blast, especially with all these broken comps. Yeah, some pvpers were complaining because of the one shot meta but let's be honest, first of all pvpers got every class at max lvl so they can instantly jump on the broken meta bandwagon (just like m+ players). If one spec is OP, u will always see a dramatic increase of it's representation until it gets nerfed to the ground. Anyway, my point is pvp has a participation problem right now. The good thing is that with most people doing SS, boosting is no longer an issue as much as it was. At the same time, if blizzard doesn't incentivise pvers to pvp, then pvp's problems will only get worse. Although I'm okay with not having to pvp to get some good items for pve, I still believe that if someone wants to reach the absolute top of his character progression, they should have to dip their toes in multiple game modes.

dude the grandmas explorer 2007 was funny af LOL

Very good video! Good points of view! I agree with everything you guys underlined here!

Theres no end to how they could make pvp more appealing

Improve balance. It’s a roleplaying game too and any specific spec you love and pick to stay with should be fair game at any point.

Very well isolated and articulated. Good video

Fantastic video. thank you for the chuckles and I hope blizzard is watching!

Hopefully Blizzard notices this. As a DK main, part of the reason why I don't like the On a Pale Horse talent in the Rider Hero tree is because of how this and the mobility creep of melee in general is going to affect PvP balance going forward. I'd classes have less micro CC if it meant getting rid of precog.

I love the idea of having classes be redesigned specifically inside pvp. I think it will allow balance teams to be more agile since they wont have to consider balance implications outside the specific buff or nerf.

Just make the game more simple , less abilities , less cleave more focus on setups over pure dmg/healing throughput

@DzsRfrmd

Ай бұрын

preach!

@DzsRfrmd

Ай бұрын

also more accessible

@DankMemes-xq2xm

Ай бұрын

agreed

@user-hc4hk5bs8l

Ай бұрын

Just like the government. A trend towards bloat and dysfunction seems inevitable given enough time.

Every aspect of PvP is in shambles. Class tuning is too little too late despite feedback. MMR needs further tuning. No new BGs for 6yrs. Regular BGs and Epics are over run by Premade Communities. Every Epic BG is untuned as seasons progress leading to soloing bosses and 3 min zerge wins. The low level PvP brackets are overrun by scaled down level 70s with template stats that are wayy too strong, Twinks, and Premades. Sharding in Warmode needs adjustment. New content zones need 30% more players and Legacy Zones impacted by Chromie time need Sharding removed all together since you only see like hostile 3 players from lvl 1-70 and they’re not your lvl. Literally every area of PVP play is lacking the most basic of maintenance needs. They’ve thrown us in the trash, and with Hero Talents coming PvP is gonna be a 💩 show in TWW..

Its interesting to rewatch high level games from various classes POVs from different expansions. Gameplay has turned into pve mash with an optional cc game beyond that. Once upon a time it was multifaceted - there were high points in the game

Thanks for featuring me in a video @skill capped wow pvp guides!

@BadJuicy

Ай бұрын

The magegød

@Mxgtumgoten

Ай бұрын

@@BadJuicyplayed some rbgs with him

@AlunethMaster

Ай бұрын

@@Mxgtumgoten did u ?

@Mxgtumgoten

Ай бұрын

@@AlunethMaster i m mxxmmllm on your fl and you added me after we some good rbgs xD

Awesome video. I agree with almost every point.

Discount for healer's therapy... So true 13:49

Very well said Skillcapped

Hit it on the nail with this one. I agree with every singe point except rewards making people participate. Yes there needs to be more rewards in PvP but the biggest thing is gameplay. The gameplay needs to be fun first, and they can do that by removing 80% of the buffs/debuffs and making class identity a thing again.

Blizzard! Watch this...help us PVP lovers out :D

A PvP specific trading post is an insanely good idea, and PvP talent trees. Well done, please do whatever you need to to signal boost this. I would say that micro cc includes the third DR Poly/Fear/Cyclone. And some of the main offenders are the ccs that are off DR like infernal stun. Also, completely agree about mobility creep, and homogenization, and having every tool, like DH. It's insane, stuff needs to be pared back a long way. Also baked in mortal strikes and snares are pretty garbage.

Rly quality script and narration here, and nice animations and footage, well crafted vid imo

Honestly, I wish there was a ladder where, the higher you go on the ladder, the more abilities are unlocked in your spec. That creates a learning curve in PvP. Casuals would have an easier time playing pvp with less spells while pro players can still play with all the spells as they would be at the top rating.

I think one of the best ways to get more people to heal is to make more offence oriented PvP specs like Fistweaver. I remember the switch in League where supports used to be complete useless pieces of paper that would get 1 shot. Now supports literally carry games on a regualr basis with insane damage. Guess what, that makes playing support a lot more fun

@B-...

Ай бұрын

Worked for tanks in pvp. Once they gave them huge damage seemed like more people wanted to play them.

i started playing wow this month game is super fun but just to play the story you need addons like zygor or it will take you so much more time if you are new to the game and after your done with the campaign you then need 100 addons to play the pve then 1000 more for arenas... but after you find the right settings it feels realy good.

Brilliant video. I've played and pvpd since Vanilla. The state of current PVP saddens me. Nail on head with micro C C and class identity is so blurred now

well structured video

WoW pvp needs to be fully revamped. Add ons ruin wow pvp. There needs to be an even playing field for everyone playing. Dumb the pvp down and have it be its own sandbox.

@braidend4379

Ай бұрын

Not only pvp but also pve. Pve has been tuned with DBM and weakauras taken into consideration, so it is basically impossible to play the game without having a bunch of addons.

Great video and spot on! Hopefully some wow dev are also watching :D

I feel like simplifying the combat will help positioning and micro ccs aren’t too annoying if you have a simple rotation

We 100% need both Dragonflight and Shadowlands(choose 1 talent among sets of 3) talent systems at the same time. Some abilities need to be mutually exclusive, which you put in the Shadowlands talent system. The rest you put in the Dragonflight talent tree. PvP talents can be distributed in a separate Shadowlands system too. We also need descriptions of pvp numbers modifiers visible at all times so that people easily understand the difference in ability power between pve and pvp.

a full pvp talent trees might be fix, can easily patch imbalances without affecting pve. But that might be too much work for a small company like Blizz

@B-...

Ай бұрын

Perhaps we can pray Microsoft consumes a talented pvp live service game company that can takeover wow pvp. Like most Blizzard games, our only hope is a non-Blizzard studio doing it.

Such a great video!

I'm just happy Cata is coming out so I can pvp again

@Kanoog

Ай бұрын

Cata pvp will never be like before, people will be hacking and botting like crazy just like they already are in previous expansions.

I love to watch those . Sooo funny :) Comment about evoker was original too :)

you really hit the nail on the head here...

I don't think we need more rating based rewards and especially not limited-time rewards. That will motivate no one. It certainly won't motivate new players who already find it daunting enough as it is to reach 1800 within a given season, let alone anything higher. I would lean on the seasonal mount approach they have where any rounds played above a certain threshold (say 1400 - which I believe is basically the floor) gives you progress. You can make the first win of the day count for more. Let's be honest, most people entering solo shuffle for the first time, likely got their gear from "first win of the day" bgs until they were done. Anyone who hasn't in mostly greens - typically becomes the kill target.

@B-...

Ай бұрын

Ratings are arguably the worst part of the system. I'd much prefer a battle pass system with a very small percentage of rating based rewards. If I kickass for 200 games, and you do mediocre for 2000 games, I think we should both be able to earn the rewards, just I earn them faster for skill, but with time invested you can still earn them too. It's the only way to have a healthy player pool.

Too many arena maps? Nah. Playing the same 3 maps for an entire week is not fun.

cool suggestions maybe we'll see those updates next April 1st.

Great video, all points are being covered except 1 : too much immunity and stuff usable while in stun, it's one of the major thing why setup comp are trash (and also healer trinket cd down to 1m30). Tbh even if blizzard see your video they won't do anything as like venruki said in shadow lands blizzard don't want classes and spec be/played differently from pve to pvp and as m+ is THE priority we have to deal with it.

I feel like every player is saying WoW systems are overcomplicated and the developers add in 10 more talents without taking any away.... Professions and rotations need to be less bloated.

The answer is the same for what happened with retail wow in general, it’s just tooo much, so overwhelming.

The new talent trees, whilst I'd say were overall good for the game, have made PvP too chaotic. A return to simplicity is required. More abilities need to be placed into branching paths or choice nodes, especially if they're micro-cc, stun, or gap closer/creator. In it's current form, it isn't maintainable. Balance patches are too few and classes are far too meta for far too long. Simplify the amount of spells a single player can take, you make the game easier to play, easier to understand, and you simplify balancing whilst still providing class/spec identity and fantasy through choice. Blizzard seriously need to consider the base UI for PvP at this point. I'd have hoped that the expansion bringing a UI overhaul would have addressed the issues we've been complaining about in PvP for years, but here we are again. The first thing you must do to play PvP is download a slew of addons. There's far too much to track and the default UI hasn't even tried to keep up. Make RBG solo-queue-able already. Casual BGs are fucking mess right now with premades and farming. I swear, probably 40% of all games I join are graveyard grinders, meanwhile no one can get into an RBG game. Casual PvP is anything but casual right now, and as the first thing a new PvPer will play... well, I can see why PvP engagement is so dire right now. Currently Blizz are prioritising M+ because it has the most players, but that's only because they've neglected PvP for so long no one is left. They need to shift their philosophy to 50/50 split between PvP and PvE to entice players back into PvP.

well done video, gratz

Honestly the pvp needs a different talent tree, for exemple we can get lich king or cataclysm talents for pvp and the dragonflight talents tree for pve and wold content, make pvp appealing with rewards and a new mmr system with rankings like overwatch is good too. Just an opinion.!

The video had some good points, especially about how pve spills over into pvp and how arenas can feel daunting to get into for new players with an entirely different ui and addon list than most pve players. However, I feel the biggest issue always has been and always will be the community. It's shocking how elitist people are at every mmr I've been in. From fresh toons to 2k-ish, you can't go 2 lobbies without seeing people bicker at each other over nothing important. Did a hunter use their trap on the healer when the other dps didn't want to burst? Someone is getting flamed. Did the healer not use all of their mobility and trinket to follow the warrior around the pillar to prevent him from dying on his own? Someone is getting flamed. Did somebody mess up a kick, giving the destro lock precog to cast freely and maybe get a kill? Somebody is getting flamed. It is even worse for healers because its all those issues compounded with the normal pug mentality that everything is somehow the healer's fault, which makes queues times astronomical because few people are willing to put up with constant abuse just to learn a role. I like the few specs I play in pvp but I'm not willing to wait 20+ minutes every lobby on average because people can't stop being pricks to healers. Instead, I just trash randoms in battlegrounds when I want a pvp fix. Otherwise I just mythic raid and do keys these days.

@mikaelbentley9870

Ай бұрын

The truth is, PvPers killed their own content by behaving as you say. Every tier of skill has multiple players who think they’re better than they are and it’s the other pugs in the lobby holding them back. It’s hilarious but sad. If you want a bunch of collectors to just show up as fodder for skill players just add old sets that are obtainable from games played rather than rating. Of course if the goal is to maintain that elitism of old sets no one wears then I guess the attitude continues to hold the content back.

I personally like solo shuffle but what I don’t like is how punishing it is. I’m a heal main and would like to learn dps but playing dps is just a waiting simulator. It takes soooo long to even get a q. I got everything I wanted for the season on my main so I’m taking a break for a while until next season. I don’t even bother pushing higher than 2100 as 2400 is unattainable for most people so there’s no point.

I agree 100%, well said skill capped

I am a beginner pvp healer (I did a lot of m+ before) and n1 reason discouraging me from queuing solo shuffle (or any other rated pvp) is just the huge ton of information I need to learn to even begib to be competitive. It took me few months to master my spec (I am a holy priest) and now what, I have to master 30 + other specs? I decided to play 60 lvl version of each spec to get an overall feeling, but even that would take a lot of time and effort to do.

@B-...

Ай бұрын

And on top of that you need to keep up to date on them. As someone who has a max level of all classes, I have no idea what any of them do merely because I took a break since 10.0. It all changes so damn fast. Used to be if you saw a priest, you kinda knew what it did, but with the new talent trees and new builds, every new large patch has a bunch of classes radically change.

Here is another idea: Separate into 2 types of bracket, Main and Alts. Main Ladder : Each account can only have one character in this bracket. Your highest rating char will be automatically chosen, or you can pick a class. How many time you played at like 1800-2000 rating and was matched up against MGlads or even pro players in their alts? On avg, ppl have 2-4 characters, which makes the ladder filled with those high rated players playing in lower mmr, especially with less and less ppl playing, only good players remain because lower player gave up. Moderate players don’t feel sense of progression doesn’t matter how much they play. This method will make sure that people with their respective skills is at the rating they belong. Alts Ladder is just any other character you have but won’t be as respectful as the Main Ladder.

@DankMemes-xq2xm

Ай бұрын

This is a good idea, but you'd need to make it Main Class and not Main Char, otherwise you'd have glad players smurfing on alts of the same class.

@user-hc4hk5bs8l

Ай бұрын

This is convoluted and a bad idea. Blizzard just might adopt it.

@KaewSaBa

Ай бұрын

@@DankMemes-xq2xm Yep I noticed it and that’s why I said “or class” :)

@DankMemes-xq2xm

Ай бұрын

@@KaewSaBa didn't see it :P

Pruning absolutely needs to happen but there would just be to much backlash and they are so afraid of that

I luv solo shuffle more than any wow contents. got first elite sets, no more LFG. But These days, it's hard to press the join button because of the queue time. Blizzard can fix this? hm.. TY for nice video and contents skill capped!

Well said!

As someone who prefers healing I'd love for people i'm meant to keep alive to not get deleted in a global, even moreso though wall or otherwise.

@B-...

Ай бұрын

It took me all of like 5 games into shuffle before a met my first Zerg warrior who leapt across the map and around a pillar and died instantly then was like "WTF are you doing healer?" Then he afked every game with me. Like... just lovely...

@H4zz10

Ай бұрын

@@B-... yep sounds about right? 😂

Summed up the whole reason why i prefer wrath/mop or even cata :)

Started playing in S2 of dragonflight since MoP. Barely attempt any rated PvP because of the Q times. Shame

Here’s an idea to fix pvp. Change the pvp template. And what I mean by that is maybe prune the abilities on the action bar every time you enter pvp activity or zone on world map. Make it so there’s no more than 15 or so relevant abilities for pvp. Also remove addons and overhaul the PvP ui to compensate. All of this will simplify the game and attract more players. And to bring old players back maybe add vendors that give PvP blues, for the current season, for free! Then progress normally from there based on rating, adding better gear from higher rating and all that. Treat every season like an arena tournament server. This will remove the unnecessary grind so that everyone at anytime can hop back into pvp.

There was almost a time where each class was a pvp spec and a mythic spec. Now all specs got mashed together

45 minute queues are the biggest thing; No one outside of streamers with 2 accounts can actually sit through these things. There are certainly a lot of other issues, but I'd be willing to put up with a lot of them, if I could actually play the game.