I always said that Ungoliant did not devour herself but instead fled so far south into exile, that she eventually settled in Australia.

@molochi

2 ай бұрын

That would explain Clock Spiders.

@joebrat6809

2 ай бұрын

@@molochi and then she essentially split into a trillion pieces that became what we now know as the australian spiders.

@marhawkman303

2 ай бұрын

@@joebrat6809 Yeah I was gonna mention Mirkwood, but... those were spawned earlier, indirectly via Shelob. This southern journey.... took her outside the part of the Middle Earth map that Tolkien drew. 'cause that's the real kicker, where the story gets funky.... Middle Earth is a vast place, the key events... are actually a small area of it. the far south and far east, we see little and know little about. But anyways, Mirkwood Spiders are a sentient race of thinking, feeling arachnids... who are spawned of Shelob... and thus Ungoliant. Who knows if more such creatures exist? Let's be real... Tolkein's world is DEADLY. Civilized lands are reasonably safe.... not the rest of the world! What is the Arda equivalent of Australia like I wonder? :D

@joebrat6809

2 ай бұрын

@@marhawkman303 yeah that would have been interesting to see, I think he does mention a few times in the books 'like the monkeys in the forests of the south', hinting that tropical jungle environments indeed to exist in Arda, but the part where the events take place are more similar to Europe.

@cernunnos_lives

Ай бұрын

I freaking knew it

I’d argue she was a Maia much like Ossë who was probably just a spirit of waves, made to gently reshape and soften lands but due to Melkor’s extremes became more violent storms and sided with him for a time, creating havoc . I think Ungoliant is the same. Probably a Maia of shadow, she became the Maia of black holes, gluttony, and despair. She was free to change her shape because she was a Maia and one who specialized in a particularly power realm. She couldn’t overpower Melkor without *external* help and that came in the form of the two trees. If you remember Yvanna sang them into existence but when they were destroyed she couldn’t remake them because like anything else of great worth (simarils, the ring, melkors creations, etc.) they poured so much of themselves into their creations they could never reproduce the same original power. Thus Ungoliant a powerful Maia also took into her the essence of both Yvanna and Nienna whose very tears watered them. She grew to the point that even Melkor was afraid, then she ate all of the crafts forged by Feanor. So I must imagine that a strong enough Maia enhanced with power from several sources, could match a lesser, post - “battle of the powers” Melkor

When you said, "I am Dragon", all I could think is, "This is Flaming Dragon" 😂😂

@khylerbane4523

3 ай бұрын

Now I’m imagining Feaonor or Morgoth as Les Grossman.

@RyanSpike

3 ай бұрын

@@khylerbane4523 😆

@tompaxton8588

Ай бұрын

That made me laugh 😂

Fascinating theory. Never thought of it that way. I always just classified her as one of the nameless things who did enough evil to get on the radar and become named. Thank you.

@marhawkman303

2 ай бұрын

Yeah, I categorize her as one of them as well. Not all of the nameless things are evil though. Tom Bombadil is an example of one that is good.

Love the videos! Thanks so much for the content

Well there was actually a third set of music on the Ainullindale time, Illuvatar´s themes, Melkor´s own variations and a third discordant harmony came from the clash of both previous themes, so indeed Ungoliant as well other eerie mysteries of Tolkien´s lore as the NAMELESS THINGS, of Moria, could have came from that which wasn´t neither Illuvatar´s idea nor Melkor´s variations altering that.

@Catherine.Dorian.

3 ай бұрын

I thought it was said the nameless things always existed in the void but no one knew where they came from

@molochi

2 ай бұрын

Yeah I think that Tolkien wanted Ungoliant to be something else that snuck in. Perhaps because Melkor was making a ruckus.

@marhawkman303

2 ай бұрын

@@Catherine.Dorian. yeah, this ! Not everything in Arda was created alongside Arda. "the void" held things that already existed before Arda was made. some of these got pulled in.

Absolutely perfect theory. This has been initially my thought as well about the nature of Ungoliant and Melkor, which brings me back to what Eru Ilúvatar stated in the beginning. "And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me, nor can any alter the music in my despite. For he that attempteth this shall prove but mine instrument in the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined". In short.... There is nothing Melkor can do because he will only play a part in what Eru Ilúvatar's plan is in the end.

@middleearthtales

3 ай бұрын

This quote by Ilúvatar is one of my favorites too. it says so many things so well...

@lhadzyan7300

3 ай бұрын

@@middleearthtales it´s a great quote and makes sense about Melkor´s own variations as part of a complex-clever work of Eru to make good to have SENSE on CONTRAST with evil to exist than to be just Good alone because that´s how usually works better, henceforth Melkor corruption was part of all to make things interesting or ever happen for a dynamic balance it´s needed for opposite-complementary forces to exist all or well make SENSE of his goals. However Ungoliant seems something ODD even for Melkor and Illuvatar´s too, and the quote of him to his corrupted Ainur seems to be applying only for him, yet Eru might be a self-ADAPTATIVE creative being that actually isn´t so perfect and might be hints of higher outer powers matching him - Older Being-Gods wicked or at leas AMORAL in contrast to him - and well if his creation ever knew on that, all will shake in despair about the no-sense of all broader than Eru and his creation within, so all will breakup again. (It´s unknown if Eru has ever made former universes before or if will be others, all that rellyies is dogmatic theological ideas direct from Christianity beliefs of Tolkien forced into Pagan European lore, and well this has leakings for a neutral non-theistic views anyways!!) Henceforth Eru might be lying too, to hide some bigger than him outer truth that might make a lot of harm if knew, but well those are views for a non-Christian or not-monotheistic or non-theistic centric fan of Tolkien view after all.

@jacobfreeman5444

3 ай бұрын

​@@lhadzyan7300I think it can be summed up simply. Of all things known Eru is the source. This being is the consciousness and will that predates creation as revealed thus far. But that doesn't mean Eru willed beings like Ungoliant into being like he did his servitors. Rather we can see them as the echoes of that creation. The balance within his being casting strange reflections and horrible shadows. Not directly his creations so much as a necessary part of the act of creation and something he did take into account. Where as Eru's servitors and other creations were acts of conscious design the things like Ungoliant were the unconscious echoes of these things. He knew they would be but had no control over them. Perhaps Morgoth was always meant to be the one to gather up these loose ends so when the end came they can all be cleaned up nice and tidy. Now that doesn't mean Eru is the only one of its kind. Just that there can be no evidence as all things we are exposed to in Erda find their beginning in Eru. Its like asking what the gift of men truly entails. It is a thing beyond the knowing of that world. Only Eru knows for sure

@marhawkman303

2 ай бұрын

@@lhadzyan7300 Tolkein does make claims that not everything in Middle Earth was created alongside Arda by Eru. We don't know where they came from, so they could be older works, or perhaps not his creations at all. Was this the ONLY creation of Illuvatar? Or perhaps, Illuvatar was acting to eradicate some of these forces by trapping them in his grand plan? Hmm... the world may never know. :D

@lhadzyan7300

2 ай бұрын

@@marhawkman303 and I know that having Iluvatar had made other versions of the Universe or the Earth or Solar System equivalents before at least, or well indeed himself not being actually true alone outside the dimensional realm surrounding him and the Ainur alongside their creation universe, and that are equivalent if not higher darker unknown multiversal forces that are evil or amoral in contrast with him being the only exception of Goodness on his own type, therefore the statement of just One Lone God of Good remains even if he isn´t the only or higher one ever (thus making all his efforts even more VALUABLE in tune without endangering moral values of Christianity and so on), however as a core-dogmatic theological-believer that Tolkien was he didn´t wanted to acknowledge more. I´m happy to know that neverthless Tolkien acknowledged that there is stuff happening that it´s even outside of Eru´s plan (or Melkor´s as well), very likely from the recessive yet importan third set of discordant notes made on the clash of both the tunes of Eru and the ones from Melkor, so weren´t part of any of those plannings. (Or indeed could might have some other additional darker ancient origin that undermines Eru´Illuvatar´s status as lone and highest divine being ever in that legendarium, as that´s something beyond his own universe creation too, as was the eliminated idea of the cursed town in Beleriand in northern side of Doriath which later became the site where Ungoliant came to linger there and produced most of his giant-spiders descendants.)

Epic video mate possibly my favourite lotr channel! Love the early lore especially ungoliant! Solid theory of her creation too! Would be interested with a video on Shelob!

@middleearthtales

3 ай бұрын

I keep asking myself, am I doing it right? how can I do it better? When comments like yours come, I feel that I am on the right track. I really appreciate it!

@bencross3759

3 ай бұрын

@@middleearthtales you are doing a great job! Quality content and really well explained! Look forward to the next upload!

@d33763

2 ай бұрын

Her desire is so great, it bends the fabric of space time.

@marhawkman303

2 ай бұрын

@@middleearthtales I think you missed a plot point. Not everything in Arda was born from the act of creation that created Arda. some things (Tolkein never listed which ones) pre-date Arda and entered it after it's creation. This is generally understood to be the origin of Tom Bombadil, thus explaining why he is immune to the Rings. It COULD also be the origin of Ungoliant, but.... this is by no means certain.

A lot of Tolkien strict-to-canon fans faill to properly get a grasp on realization on how powerfull and special Ungoliant was, because it´s not just what happened to Melkor/Morgoth alone in front of her at the end of their mutual colaboration - because by then he wasn´t nearly on the peak of his earlier power-self then and she actually got on her peak after feeding herself by the power of the Trees, the holy water-springs of Varda and the jewels Melkor gived her aside the Silmarills, so she was very more powerfull than him then anyways! - but actually the big deal if about when she totally drained and ruined on Varda´s water springs nearby to the Trees which both helped they never regrew again, and well she totally undermine the high special power gathered on the water spring which was direct of Varda´s own influence and as she actually was the most feared by Melkor of the Valar, as the only one gifted to have Illuvatar´s power of the Unperishable Flame on herself - though she shared it with Manwe neverthless - and Ungoliant utterly ruined that, seems that Illuvatar power himself was very hindered at the same time, very much as it´s so eerie bizarre that none ever got noticed of her before so nearby to Valinor´s realms at Aman, or Illuvatar ever daring to have the Valar get steady ready for furtherly menances than Melkor alone to stand for, being then Ungoliant something very unexpected and ALIEN of all of Middle Earth and Illuvatar´s creations - or even Melkor´s twisted changes too - as if something ELSE had been playing on to mess with Illuvatar´s creation which actually was if not higher matching his power and being able to infiltrate within on the Darkness being both the source where Melkor got self-corrupted in the first place and then Ungoliant came from there somehow too!! There is something so eerie and ghastly terryifing about her that actually all the Valar couldn´t make a stand on her, and even the fearsome Tulkas which overcame Melkor actually got CONFUSED and IN FEAR about the darkness and UN-LIGHT set by Ungoliant to leave out the crime scene alongside with Melkor. Simply there is something that seems being missed on but Tolkien conveniently left on mystery either because of liking the confusion or more likely because having to find some barely common sense of it would be to left to any unsatisfactory end, because disminishing her as just a random corupted Maia doesn´t make sense as... it´s so ODD she wasn´t ever counted before, and why Melkor didn´t thought of something else alongside with his more trustyworthy loyal followers as Sauron and the Balrogs, eventhough if ever considering joining to her in his side, but... he kinda knew since the beggining he shouldn´t have trusted on her in all, but... knew about the power she held on herself which... sounds so CONVIENENT and something eerie about why Sauron or the Balrogs didn´t need to be involved anyways as a back-up as if Melkor was dealing with someting so much dreadfull even beyond comprehension of his most loyal followers as something so UNNATURAL to all Illuvatar´s creation or even his own alterations of it, thus Ungoliant isn´t a Maia henceforth neither an Ainur but SOMETHING else deriving on something as powerfull if not higher aside and outside of Illuvatar´s power and realms himself, but these logic needs to avoid the Judeo-Christian monotheistic influence that Tolkien used for Eru and his creation, and having to relly both either on pre-Christian paganistic views for these cosmic horror entities or to address something non-monotheistic (even agnostic-atherstic) free-thinking way of having Chaos and Void as entities besides the Being (Eru) and well... the no-sense of this makes (or well usually seems to make) moral values on good vs evil issues to be plainly unsustained if a natural core of order (Illuvatar) as Goodness couldn´t stand against Chaos alone or had to be on a complementar balance which isn´t a Christian view and so i guess Tolkien UTTERLY DEPISED THAT, so he didn´t ever dared to go that path and left Ungoliant on purpose mystery on herself as she was undermining the core foundations of his world buidling or at least to have it with his own personal religious beliefs. Furtherlymore, Tolkien was also kinda against on making female characters as possible of evil deeds as much - if not even more - than males, henceforth that´s why Ungoliant is left so underveloped too, however it´s a common trend on her, Shelob, Queen Beruthiel of Gondor and Thuringwethil being all of them the only villainesses of Tolkien lore. (Well there is Lobelia Sackville-Bagginess but she is more of a nuance annoyance to Bilbo and his family than a proper true threat on herself to others.)

@middleearthtales

3 ай бұрын

Great theory! the idea of Ungoliant being a completely different being who was attracted to this creation led by Iluvatar is very intriguing indeed. although Tolkien never gave a single hint that he had such a concept in mind. I'm gonna have to think about this.

@lhadzyan7300

3 ай бұрын

@@middleearthtales there were hints later dismissed by Tolkien about other Older Evil Gods than Melkor himself on some part on his earlier work on the place that later was reelaborated as the Dreadfull Valley near the northern region of Doriath´s realm, where Ungoliant lurked for a while and mated with older giant spiders to create the later spawn fighted by Beren there. Seems as a place where a cosmic outer dark entity - Ungoliant - got summoned and turned his followers into spiders then. Well that´s my idea.

@lhadzyan7300

3 ай бұрын

@@middleearthtales think about the issue of the bias of Tolkien to make properly on female villainesses on the rare they ever appeared in all and how little they´re developed contrasted with males and well the seemely bias on his personal view that deemed females only able to do more good than evil on their own than males, and how he actually made the same sexist view on a gender that actually it´s the very partial opposite vew he intended to avoid about myssoginist ideas for females doing worse than males on their sake and power-trusted, instead of having a fair more egalitarian way for both genders in that. Tolkien seems to be unwillingly a forerrunner of supremacy feministic views on contemporary times where seems to have that very mistaken bias of females never able to do wrong on their own natural will as the same as males, which of course it´s so bad as the previous opposite view, but... Tolkien kinda helped to pave this view on having less female antagonists than males - and very underdeveloped - and when having female heroines though rarer they´re actually more impressive on their own for good-sake than their males counterparts, which it´s a very biased view afrer all too - close to missandry then.

@mikeroman5208

2 ай бұрын

As you write, by the time of Melkor's and Ungoliant's collaboration he wasn't as powerful as he used to be. That's actually an understatement. He had weakened himself to such a degree that he could even be seriously hurt by an elf. I'm of course referring to his duel with Fingolfin.

@lhadzyan7300

2 ай бұрын

@@mikeroman5208 neverthless Fingolfin was more than any simple Elf anways and well Morgoth got that showdown later on after he faced the earlier threat by Ungoliant and it got its pay-off then

There was a comment I saw on another video that was a great theory. Since Arda was sang into creation via a glorious choir/orchestra, it can follow that there was a time before the start that noise was still being made. As everything is getting ready, there's the odd twang of an instrument being tuned... someone coughing or loudly drinking water. A chair scraping. The idea was that Ungoliant is the result of one of *those* sounds of creation. An accident.

@middleearthtales

3 ай бұрын

Yes I've seen this comment too and it's really fun to think about. Manwe coughing, Ulmo making harmonies... 😀 But according to Tolkien what's important are the thoughts during the music. While Manwe thinks of the air Ulmo contemplates the water... But the idea of Ungoliant emerging from Melkor's cough is also very amusing.😆

@iainballas

3 ай бұрын

@@middleearthtales judging by her insatiable hunger, I'd say a soft belch would be more appropriate!

I think before Ungoliant take the classical towering giant spider form, she was kinda a darker version of Varda herself as she kinda is the proper twisted mirror image of her, but she is Darkness whereas Varda is pure Light! Henceforth that´s why Melkor knew her so well early on and appreciated because she was alike what he couldn´t get - as he was into Varda before she left him for Manwe, as she knew he mostly only wanted her to controll and harness the power within her derived from Illuvatar for his own goals, whereas Manwe didn´t wanted that and just liked for herself - neverthless I think Melkor also hated and feared Ungoliant, because she wasn´t and could never ever became as Varda eventhough being much alike her early on in a twisted way, and... well she actually ended being even MORE POWERFULL than her and eventually wanted to do things on her own ALONE!! (Varda wasn´t a loneler self-powered modern-feministic supremacistic female type, she wanted to SHARE equally, but Ungoliant was kinda the dark and usually outcome twist of self-power as enforcement ambition on everyone else either on females or males, and... that´s why he feared and hated her and both set appart and... she became the spider as no need to be fancy to others then as before, she could be the most hideous of all shamessly!) Of course this is mostly my headcanon view but... guessing logically on the free-spaces of what little Tolkien left to know about Ungoliant, Melkor and Varda then too.

Ive always thought Ungoliant resembled qualities like that of a black hole, but the more i think, the more she might also qualify for other things like; - She is the proverbial 'ash' of Eru's Secret Fire or - She is the manifestation of the primordial shadow that lays beyond light itself

@primordial.sounds

3 ай бұрын

I asked my cousin, Primordial Shadow, about it. He never heard of her.

@moshladaan

3 ай бұрын

I think it's fair to say Ungoliant is something between a Valar and Maiar. As far as what and who created her, I'm guessing Iluvatar wanted Melkor to have a friend/pet?

@marhawkman303

2 ай бұрын

@@moshladaan Actually, not everything in Arda was born from the act of creation that birthed Arda. So it's possible Ungoliant is an outsider.

@differous01

Ай бұрын

After the First lesson in Music (Heydol!) the Valar began weaving their individual music into harmonies, and Melkor introduced discord, but Eru embraced the discord to make a greater theme. If Ungoliant is the Discord it would explain how a Maiar, Melian, was able to single-handedly evict her from Doriath: out-spinning the spinner.

Thoroughly enjoyed uR video, i agree on much if not all of it. I especially liked uR reference to the song of Iluvatar, which i believe plays into all ages of Middle Earth more than most ppl express. tyvm... subscribed

Lovely video. I think Ungoliant was the inspiration for the spider entity in Stephen King's IT

Very Well theorized!

Great video

Thanks for the video.

Well done!!! Great content!!!

Incredible work as always!

@middleearthtales

3 ай бұрын

Thank you! 🙏

Cool a new channel for Tolkien fans. Well done narration and displayed artwork. I am happy to subscribe and add this to my regular Tolkien content :)

I always assumed she was one of the "nameless things" Gandalf mentioned. They gnawed endlessly on the bowels of the world and just speaking their name brought darkness. They were powerful enough to be worshipped as gods by the early men and that a Balrog and Gandalf fled from them. These all match Ungoliant, even the darkness or unlight. Perhaps the description in this vid for Ungoliant is also a description of what all the nameless things are?

@marhawkman303

2 ай бұрын

This was my thought as well. Not everything in Arda was spawned by that single act of creation.

i like this. it basically makes her one of the first two sentient beings born within Arda. i say this because i believe she has an opposite character born at the same time as her who ended up outliving her (if she did eat herself). that character i believe is Tom Bombadil.

I like your theory on her possible origin. I have thought that the "nameless things" of the deep dark were from the same origin. Not his creation directly but a result spawned from the discord he sowed. If such was indeed the case it is little wonder that Gandalf was hesitant to speak of them. I can't help but wonder when he said "I will bring no report of them to darken the light of day", if he might have meant that literally.

@marhawkman303

2 ай бұрын

My thought was that most of those "nameless things" were nameless because they were outside the realm and thus discussion of them was unneeded. I joked earlier about Arda's version of Australia... and I really have to wonder if the far reaches of Arda... might be islands full of monsters.

Great video and fantastic art. Just subscribed..

Loved this tale!!

Is there any suggestion in Tolkien's writings that Ungoliant might have been terrible in appearance because of her inhuman beauty, rather than her hideousness? How did she appear *before* she assumed the shape of a great spider? She was, after all, a divine being of at least Melkor's level, and Melkor was so magnificent -- so beauteous -- that "the light of his eyes was like a flame"... so perhaps Ungoliant was created as an equally splendid being, a female complement to Melkor's male perfection.

@talesofgore9424

3 ай бұрын

Spider-Lillith or lolth from DND

@iainballas

3 ай бұрын

Someone wants ome Ungussy? Spoiders :3

@llDarkPheonixll

3 ай бұрын

​@@iainballas not ungussy 💀😭😂

@bencross3759

3 ай бұрын

I may be wrong but didn’t Shelob take the appearance of a woman also in the early eras?

@brianstanton2721

3 ай бұрын

I don't know that seems pretty valid, I could see ungoliant definitely in female form using her immense beauty to lure pray and then completely devour them lol

This needs a movie

*Ungoliant* is one of two entities that don't fit into the comprehensive scheme of the Ainulindalë, the other being *Iarwain ben-Adar* (Tom Bombadil). They have enormous power (for example, Bombadil was unaffected by Sauron’s ring, which so frightened both Gandalf and Galadriel, while Ungoliant caused genuine fear in Morgoth, something none of his Maiar, even Sauron, were ever to do), and the limits of that power were never made clear. They do *not* appear to fit into the scheme of the Ainur or the overall creation story at all. I'm aware of no evidence in the primary sources which link Ungoliant to the Music of Ainur at all, including the “themes of discord” repeatedly introduced by Melkor. What Tolkien considered them to be, at least from my reading (and I stand to be corrected by primary sources), he never explained. They are loose ends, which add a certain mystery, a sense of the ineffable, to his Legendarium. With respect to the Battle of Utumno, and its overthrow, I have never seen any written indication that Ungoliant was present for that confrontation. From what I remember of _the Silmarillion,_ all that was written was that she had entered into Arda, and dwelt in Avathar to the far south of Aman. My Tolkien language nitpick (sorry): Early in the video, the narrator uses the term “a Valar” (from the phrase “potentially rivalling that of a Valar”). This is not a correct usage. Valar is a plural noun, like children, goats, or chairwomen, and as such cannot be preceded by the indefinite article. The singular form of _Valar_ is _Vala_, just as the singular of _Maiar_ is _Maia_ which was used correctly in the same sentence.

Thanks!

I really like your channel!😊

I always wondered if Pennywise from Kings universe is based off a spawn of ungoliant. Not the clown but her true form.

@solyluna4967

2 ай бұрын

The True form of "It" is the "Death Lights"

good video :)

I kind of like the idea that Ungoliant was a product of the Void and thus, not created by Eru. It explains why she's so different than any of the other beings in Arda.

It is very curious that there is no literature from any time or place that remotely compares with the complexity and thoroughness of Tolkien. Truly one of a kind to an astonishing degree.

God this storytelling is so awesome

The problem is we never see her face down any other valar besides melkor. Whose power was waning. If she had faced manwe and he was scared it would give a true scale of her power

@marhawkman303

2 ай бұрын

Also it seems that Ungoliant's power grew the more she devoured, and that it wasn't until she ate the trees and those treasures that Ungoliant had such great power.

I like the ending “and that’s it”

It´s so interesting on how both times that Ungoliant appears and where she sems to end happend to be on Southern regions, though she was first on southern Aman continent and later she moved to Southern Middle Earth, which both happened to be the polar opposite of Melkor´s area of control on extreme North - though he actually never lingered on northern Aman as the Valar thought of him, but indeed was on nothern Middle Earth since when living on Utumno and later on Angband - though it was on Northewestern more actually. (Shelob later on kinda moved to a southern region of later Middle-Earth northwesten regions on the Second and Third Ages near to Mordor., Sauron´s domains.)

@kingmasterlord

3 ай бұрын

this fills the cardinal points left by the wicked and good witches

@lhadzyan7300

3 ай бұрын

@@kingmasterlord interesting data!

@marhawkman303

2 ай бұрын

@@lhadzyan7300 hmm... more and more... I think it really is true that Ungoliant went to the Arda version of Australia.... which is slightly less deadly than the real Australia, but only slightly.

The silmarils burn him anyway regardless how tightly he holds them...

@marhawkman303

2 ай бұрын

You know who enjoyed basking in the glow of a Silmaril? Smaug. Smaug's hoard contained a Silmaril.

Well that's the thing, how did Melkor know where to find Ungoliant?

Just a theory here but I wonder if what remains of Ungoliant lies underneath mount doom

Right or wrong, I always pictured Ungoliant as an antithesis to Tom Bombadil.

Awesome video! Although is there any actual wriiten evidence that Ungoliant devoured herself? Andif so could you site it from the legendarium? Because I have never read that before...

@DanBeech-ht7sw

3 ай бұрын

It's somewhere in the Silmarillion or Unfinished Tales, ".... where, in her uttermost famine, she devoured herself..."

@theodoreanderson5994

3 ай бұрын

@@DanBeech-ht7sw Thank you for responding. I appreciate that although directly before that line it says nobody knows and no tale tells and that was just what people assumed happened to her.

@DanBeech-ht7sw

3 ай бұрын

@@theodoreanderson5994 Tolkien liked to be vague sometimes. A lot of the time things are described as "it see med" when it's clear one way or the other: "For the grim years were removed from the face of Aragorn, and he seemed clothed in white" - well, was he or wasn't he? "It [the Ring] seemed to grow larger as it lay for a moment on his big brown-skinned hand" Again, either it did or it didn't. So, he sort of tells us that Ungoliant ate herself, without committing himself. Or to paraphrase Tolkien, "It seemed that the book gave an amibivalent ending to the story of Ungoliant. Or maybe not".

@DaBIONICLEFan

3 ай бұрын

​@@theodoreanderson5994 "Of the fate of Ungoliant, no tale tells. Yet some have said that she ended long ago, when in her uttermost famine, she devoured herself at last". - around page 80 of the Silmarillion depending on the edition, ch. 'The Darkening of Valinor'.

Tolkien gives us a seeming easy to understand structure of his cosmos... Iluvatar, the Valar, the Maiar, elves, dwarves, orcs, humans. And we well understand their origins. But there are creatures without explanation. Beings whose history we can only whimsically guess at... Ungoliant, the Watcher in the deep, the Nameless Things... even someone as beloved as Tom Bombadil remains a mystery. But that is that point, isn't it? We aren't meant to know...

@middleearthtales

3 ай бұрын

And that's why it's so much fun to talk about it

2:36 to 2:45 TRUE 2:58 to 3:07 'Utumno' 3:36 4:10 to 4:19 'Avathar' 4:22 Melkor 'pardoned by ''Manwe'' 4:35 to 6:00 Melkor flees to the 'South'; finds Ungoliant there (who resides there, secretly) 7:14 The plot to kill the 'two trees', Telperion and Laurelin, 'at a time of festival' (Sed?) 7:30 to 7:36 Melkor uses 'his Black Spear', deeply wounding the Two Trees. Melkor starts to fear Ungoliant 8:22 to 11:00

I thought that Ungoliant was a product of entropy, Ea's opposite. Not involved in Middle Earth's creation by Illuvitar and his crew, but interested enough to infiltrate it with an avatar of its own. It's singular personification would then, of course, be stronger than Melkor or any other single being in a straight up battle of power, but epitimised other entropic ideals besides hunger, like despair and fear. Other avatars had their material forms destroyed, but Ungoliant had to devower herself.

I thankee Dragon 🙂👍

She could be the consciousness of the void that was once where Ëa is, displaced from her natural existence as a part of the void.

I have always felt that the most likely origins of ungoliant is melkor. But i do not think it was intentional. He had one unending desire that he could not fulfill. The need to create. He sought through the void searching for the secret fire. But he never found it. And when Arda And the universe was created, during the singing of his discord which he wove into creation, he unwittingly created the only thing that was 100% of him. Ungoliant. She was the manifestation of his unquenchable thirst. Born of the void, not the secret fire, and possessed witht he power of the unseen world. And all that Melkor sought to dominate and control, she sought to consume. And she was his great bane. The one creature in all of existence and non existence that alone, singularly, could face him at the height of his power. To the extent that she even tried to consume him, just like his ambition ultimately did. And as Eru said, everything he wrought was ultimately of iluvitars hand. So in allowing all of this to transpire, the Iluvitar allowed Melkor to create his own undoing. I like to think theres a reason. The end game... in Tolkiens universe, is that at the end, Melkors ring ( yes he had one, it was the earth itself) would be destroyed and Arda would be remade as it was always intended; free of the corruption of melkor. And all that had been done would be undone. Perhaps even Melkor and Sauron would be allowed another chance if they could prove they had learned and were free of discord. Because they cant be killed. At least none of the valar can kill them because they are all just pieces/aspects of Eru. Or maybe in Earth 2.0 they would just be left in the void, endless being hunted by a crature that cannot kill them, but would never stop trying too, and one which they cannot kill. Like a serpent eating its own tail for eternity.

😍😍😍😍👌

3:10 : "it was during this flight that she took on the form of a giant spider" okay so what was she before that? just shadow?

Always remember that Eru created Arda but nowhere does it say only Arda was created, or that Iluvator was the only one doing the creating. Ungoliant existed before Arda was created. She may have been spontaneously born of the Darkness. She may have been created before Arda by Iluvator in another creation and left behind in the Darkness, or created by his creations in some other creation. Or even created by some other creator as part of a creation unrelated to Iluvator and Arda and simply found her way there via the Darkness.

A pure form of the void. Unseen by even Eru.

Melkor is an analog of Ungoliant.

This video was more entertaining than the entire first season of RoP

Is there a reason why we have to have AI write a script and also provide the voice?

👍👍👍

But u didn't mention, when did she meet Frodo through her story?

earned you a sub, You just hit the algo btw.

Somehow it reminds me of the Super Size Me story.

There should someone write Tolkien/H.P. Lovecraft horror stories.

Cool video!

I dont believe Melkors discord or Eru had anything to do with Ungoliant. I dont think Eru is alone out there, i believe there are other powerful entities out there in the void not connected to Eru. And one of those was Ungoliant. She saw Eru and the Vala create Arda and she wanted a piece of it and descended.

@bencross3759

3 ай бұрын

Interesting theory but if she was on the level of eru how did she die? Like “the dragon” said in the video melkor seemed to have a connection with ungoliant and knew exactly how to find her. The beauty about Tolkien lore is I guess will never know for but open to speculation.

@bajingo4759

3 ай бұрын

@@bencross3759 We dont know she "died" all we know is theres a roumor she devoured herself. A roumor. I dont necessarily think she is more powerful than Eru, i just believe theres other beings, entities out there who isnt connected to Eru.

@bencross3759

3 ай бұрын

@@bajingo4759 no expert on the lore my speciality is elder scrolls lore but I thought only eru could make life and he created everything! I just think melkor discourse fits nicely! Be interesting if there is more out there than just eru.

@bajingo4759

3 ай бұрын

@@bencross3759 You are correct. Only Eru had the power to create. My headcannon is that there are other beings like Eru out there.

@viktorkolaric4156

3 ай бұрын

I'm afraid it's theoretically impossible to have more than one omnipotent entity. Tolkien was a Catholic and Eru is basically Christian god in all but name. I sincerely doubt Tolkien would be comfortable with the idea of fhere being other gods out there.

Basically, my only problem with Tolkien was his hatred for spiders. Spiders are amazing. They catch flying things and they mostly keep to themselves in the corner. By my last count, I share my room with about 150 of them. Thank you, Ungoliant, for spawning the creatures that keep the fruitflies, mealmoths and mosquitoes at bay.

I think it would be funny if she found great jungles in far harad, jungles that grow faster than she can consume them.

My mom has really heavy Arachnophobia. I often randomly send her Ungoliant fan art or change her wallpaper. It´s hilarious.

@middleearthtales

3 ай бұрын

then there is plenty of material for you in the description of this video. Just make sure she's okay. 😀

@bencross3759

3 ай бұрын

Haha I do the same with a friend of mine! Deadly scared of spiders once ages ago he asked me to get rid of a spider in his car and was willing to pay me! I declined but got rid of the spider. lol

@DanBeech-ht7sw

3 ай бұрын

Does your mother find your "jokes" amusing?

I believe the nameless things also came from Melkors music.

Ungolianth wasn't created by Iluvatar. It was a primordial daemon - the incarnation of eternal darkness itself.

Yeah that's what I think

This has to either be a script read by AI, or a person who *clearly* doesn't actually care about Tolkien's works. The sheer amount of times names are seemingly intentionally mispronounced is inexcusable. It's either a computer that doesn't know better, or a person who doesn't care enough to try. Either way, it's bad.

@JGibbgg

2 ай бұрын

UN-GOALIE-ENT is driving me mad.

@c.atoffer1146

2 ай бұрын

I would tend to agree with you 👊💥

@mihousebot3045

2 ай бұрын

@@MegaBaconMonsterAs an American- no it isn't, and a proper GFYS. What an ignorant thing to say. SMFH 🤦

@PlayNiceFolks

2 ай бұрын

​@@MegaBaconMonster Correct pronunciation is a collective agreement by people. To really care about it when it doesn't affect your ability to understand what's being said...lame.

@samclark4962

Ай бұрын

Lighten up, Francis.

MOTHER

All about her origin, her true nature and her end was so UNSATISFACTORY mystery!!! Tolkien kinda FEARED to delve and develop her more!! Kinda a mix of his never properly treated deep-arachnophobia - so he loathed to deal with that - , then about how it seems he hated to have females as villainesses, and later on because if making propery sense to her origin could imply that actually there was something aside of Illuvatar even greater than him, that he though did his best to make a stand against it, neverthless leaked over and over ruining eventually all - who knows if this is only the very last time all went ruined and endless creations had been done from zero of Illuvatar´s behalf or if it´will be lasting forever afer fixing it on the Dagor Dagorath aftermath in all. After all it´s just Illuvatar´s word alone and... somehow eeriely it had to be granted as a dogmatic truth with no corroboration than blind spiritual faith that reliyies on Christian views than on a proper Pagan influenced new-mythology he builded, where actually a being as Ungoliant could have existed indeed, but needing to leave all the Christian dogma core too!

I don't agree. Even if she did condense from the music of Melko she was still a spiritual being of power. These are subdivided into Maiar and Valar. The Valar are few and named, I doubt if one was overlooked. I say that she was therefore a very powerful Maiar.

You never mentioned tulkas

Could you please record next time

She doesn’t take the form of just a spider I’m pretty sure the text talking about her form says she’s spider like meaning a lot of her features resemble a giant spider but in truth her form was probably much worse like shelob who was one of her first generation children had a spider body but also had a stinger that even shelobs children didn’t have so ungoliant probably had features from a few insects that love dark crevices especially a stinger considering that shelob had one but later generations didn’t but she probably had other more frightening features too

@luisperez-lt3xc

2 ай бұрын

Also ungoliant doesn’t just like darkness while taking this form gives her a more physical appearance in truth she’s more akin to darkness then anything else so she has physical control over it and that’s why as she consumes light she grows more bigger and more putrid it’s better to think of it just like how melkor corrupted things ungoliant in a way was doing the same turning blessed things like light or creations of light into power to empower her darkness by feeding on it and this is also why she starved as she grew the hunger grew with her and very few items were left that she could feast on anymore so over the years she grew so hungry that she basically feasted on herself and returned to the nothingness she came from

She is Melkors discord. So strong was his malcontent that it nearly swallowed him. Not an uncommon tale even when compared to the meager experiences of man.

Ungoliant is everything that Iluvatar isn't.

So she is his Frankenstein

Why would she take on the form of a spider?

Pennywise’s sister!

i believe ungoliant is an entity that is born from the void, the darkness of nothingness before the light of eru, she behaves like darkness, she is always on the border between darkness and light, but she always desires to stay close to light, like darkness, its always on the edge of the limit of light but once the light goes out, the darkness immediatly rushes and consumes the rest of it and fills all space with darkness, but it also fears the light because it cannot enter the light as long as there is a light source active.

interesting, in tolkens world beutifull things are usally beautifull inside (exept melkio and sauron both being beutiful to start with and if you are right possibly darkspider) in reality though some of the most beautifull people, creatures and plants are poisonous

Did she ate herself, or did she overate the light of the sun, or perished by the overwhelming light of the sun, or starved because she couldn't reach the sun ?

bro nice video, the vallars was always so quick to judge the elves for there many mistakes but who judge them for being dumbasses and let melkior come back they should be jailed for that shit because morgoth fuck everything up after this

She was created by morgoths song

Eru Iluvatar _IS_ the secret fire/principle of creation. Similarly, Ungoliant, with all her vomited darkness, is the principle of destruction personified.

Tolkien is just spooked by spiders.

If Ungoliant consumes Melkor I believe he is dead dead. She was watching while Eru was creating.

Frodo shot first.

This lore has to be protected from the likes of Amazon, who will only corrupt it.

Ungoliant is penny wise

Pennywise the dancing clown

I can't escape the conclusion that the Valar are profoundly stupid .

What if Melkor and Ungoliant had made bae bae's?

666 Ungoliant

Thes would be far superior videos, if you didn't us the generic AI voice....

I feel like she could be a depiction of depression. Most likely as a war veteran Tolkien knew depression. Desiring light, yet still fearing and destroying it.

You are not Dragon. You are more like rabbit. No offense meant.

Not a fan of the AI voiceover

@irishmanatthepub

3 ай бұрын

Can’t stand it.