Hey everyone, I’ve seen some discussion pertaining to Orcrist and whether or not Thorin would have gotten it back from Thranduil. In this scenario, I do believe that the trade that happened between the Dwarves, Elves and Men (concerning the Arkenstone, the Gems of Girion, etc.) would have likely repaired relations enough for Orcrist to be returned to Thorin from Thranduil. I think this is likely because even though Thranduil’s kin among the Noldor of Gondolin created Orcrist, I do not believe he would have held on to it indefinitely for that reason as he was of the Sindarin Elves. It would have taken much trust for Orcrist to be returned, but I think these allies would have gotten there, especially in return for some trading deals (some more gold or gems from Erebor, a lowered tariff rate on Mirkwood’s goods in Dale or Erebor, etc.). What do you all think about this though? Would Thorin have gotten Orcrist back?

@alexisdias1340

6 жыл бұрын

in that case, i belive yes

@ChaosToRule

6 жыл бұрын

For the sake of diplomacy and alliances I must say yes. Thranduil might be a little bit greedy, but he is not a fool.

@mayalackman7581

6 жыл бұрын

Yes, I believe he would have.

@fantasywind3923

6 жыл бұрын

Thranduil is quite reasonable and wise leader, he is capable of kindness and compassion and to remind in the book he was the one reluctant to start war over gold. The fact that he left Orcrist at Thorin's tomb as a sign of respect says as much that he would return it in reconciliation if Thorin was alive, after all, it was taken from the dwarf in captivity but for all intents and purposes it was already his (even Elrond who would have greater claim to such a weapon, being after all related to Elves of Gondolin acknowledged it as his: "They were made in Gondolin for the Goblin-wars. They must have come from a dragon's hoard or goblin plunder, for dragons and goblins destroyed that city many ages ago. This, Thorin, the runes name Orcrist, the Goblin-cleaver in the ancient tongue of Gondolin; it was a famous blade. This, Gandalf, was Glamdring, Foe-hammer that the king of Gondolin once wore. Keep them well!'" ... "Long will I tarry, ere I begin this war for gold. The dwarves cannot press us, unless we will, or do anything that we cannot mark. Let us hope still for something that will bring reconciliation."). Thranduil also wasn't exactly greedy (it's noted that he had weakness for treasure especially silver and white gems but not that he was obsessed with them, his wealth was already great though he wished to increase it, he wasn't much different from any other king or ruler who requires wealth, as Beleg Strongbow once said to Turin: "…a king or the lord of a great host has many needs. He must have a secure refuge; and he must have wealth, and many whose work is not in war. With numbers comes the need of food, more than the wild will furnish to hunters. And there comes the passing of secrecy." Hehe even magical mystical Elves think of logistics and mundane material matters :)), he was pretty much rather generous, he helped the Esgaroth's refugees: "...great store of goods he sent ahead by water." In general it was a nice speculation, Thorin already made a fine leader (when he provided his colony in Blue Mountains with prosperity working as hard as his people) but he always had pride issues, his experiences during the quest, had he lived through, would make him a bit wiser I think, though I would say that his reign wouldn't differ that much from that of Dain Ironfoot. Dain as king was fabulously rich and his reign brought peace and prosperity not only to kingdoms of Dale and Erebor/Iron Hills, but helped the entire region, Dain from the start was more humble and somewhat wiser individual, he was the one who felt or seen the dark terror of Moria, during Battle of Nanduhirion when he cut off Azog's head and that's why he was reluctant to let Balin go on his expedition to make colony in Moria (it is said that he didn't give leave willingly, but in the end agreed). Under Dain's reign Dwarves of Erebor became numerous and strong again, Dain showed remarkable generosity, Thorin if indeed he came out alive and changed by his experiences, he probably would be the same, so he would be free of 'dragon-sickness'. Problem is that Dwarves would still need lot of time to recover and it is doubtful that even under Thorin's leadership they would expand so fast. Dwarves under Dain are certainly as united as they would be under Thorin, Dain is still a member of Durin's House, a younger royal line descending from Durin the Deathless the eldest of the Seven Fathers. Dain's power and influence was great and he already as lord of Iron Hills commanded great respect. His lordship that he inherited from his grandfather Grór already gave him great following among the Longbeards (also many survivors of the sack of Erebor by Smaug, fled to Iron Hills boosting his people: "Thorin was then a youngster in the reckoning of the Dwarves. It was afterwards learned that more of the Folk under the Mountain had escaped than was at first hoped; but most of these went to the Iron Hills.")

@timberulfur5921

6 жыл бұрын

Men of the West it would happen this way or something very close to it love ur videos

In short, Thorin living = War of the Rings Easy Mode.

@ElfTaleFilms

3 жыл бұрын

I wonder if good forces had more armies to use at pelennor fields battle, what would have even been the difference? In the end it was all up to Frodo Sam and Smeagul anyway

@Prilliyo

2 жыл бұрын

They were really outnumbered in that battle bunch of dwarves would have helped

@JK-zl2ux

2 жыл бұрын

It’s funny, because it’s true!

@Fantasygirl2001

2 жыл бұрын

Heck it would not have been just war of the rings in easy mode but even battle of helm's deep easy mode. Had thorin lived he could have also sent a few hundred dwarves to help Legolas, Gimli, Aragon and Rohan against the enemies they were facing in that battle simple

@debbie4503

2 жыл бұрын

How so? Please respond, I love reading different theory's.

Thorin almost seems like a Dwarven version of Aragorn.

@Kiratsu94

4 жыл бұрын

That's kinda true 🤔

@foolslayer9416

4 жыл бұрын

True, but Aragorn tended to be more unsure of his place as king.

@Z3roPurge

4 жыл бұрын

@@foolslayer9416 because unlike thorin he never lived his life as a king or prince. He only became that when he got crowned. Until then he lived to earn that crown eventually.

@aragornii507

4 жыл бұрын

He is

@waynepotter8575

3 жыл бұрын

Not almost

I would've loved to have read/seen the scene where Thorin finds out the one who's carrying the ring to Mordor was a Baggins from the Shire, like I can just picture him getting up from his throne, and telling his army to come with him to Gondor

@sidneyadnopoz3427

Жыл бұрын

That would've left erebor undefended tho.

@AceTheSkylord

Жыл бұрын

@@sidneyadnopoz3427 I mean obviously he'd fortify Erebor and make sure it's secured

@giornogiovanna3079

Жыл бұрын

​@@sidneyadnopoz3427 Thorin didn't had to send many soldiers I think, I mean thorin and dwalin were able to defeat 100 goblin soldiers and maybe Dain as his steward would defend Erebor with his soldiers

Thorin dying just never set right with me. Oh, it’s very emotionally effective but at the same time, Thorin overcoming the greed, learning from it and ruling just feels better. I guess for me since Thorin’s life really was a horrible mess of tragedy after tragedy, I feel like the guy deserved a break. Or if Thorin must die, let his nephews live! It always felt more tragic for the sake of being tragic to me.

@pathtosciencefantasy7295

5 жыл бұрын

A GEED likes thAt is verey t0 oevercome

@DisneyBarbic

5 жыл бұрын

path to science fantasy I’d agree it’s hard but not impossible. And given the trials Thorin’s family went through I can see why greed overtook him-living in exile, fighting for your family and yourself and now suddenly you have 100 times the means to provide for them...I don’t know many people that wouldn’t be overcome by that. I suppose I just think that showing Thorin’s deep flaw with greed didn’t need to necessarily end in the death of his direct line. That always felt more tragic for the sake of being tragic to me.

@leckey119

4 жыл бұрын

Well that's life. He's a mortal which means his life can be vanquished at any moment in a world full of dragons, orcs and evil

@wpw8570

4 жыл бұрын

It's simply a reflection of the truth of war. People die. Not everyone overcomes their problems, not everyone wins. Thorin, Fili and Kili perish on the slopes of the Lonely Mountain, and in doing so regain everything they'd fought for. Later, Dain and the heir of Bard would die too in defending Erebor and Dale. They aren't fighting orcs and bands of ruffians in these areas, these were massive wars that were only eclipsed in the Third Age by the likes of the Fall of Arnor and of course the War of the Ring, both of which directly involved servants of Sauron himself. Tolkien never shied away from death. The death of Thorin Oakenshield reflects that very well I think, for as tragic as it is, that's the very intent of Lord of the Rings and the Legendarium - great, epic tragedy. From the corruption of Melkor all the way to the departing of Frodo from Middle-Earth, there is as much sorrow as there is joy.

@docvaliant721

4 жыл бұрын

Save Throin and kill off Frodo

This is a beautiful timeline, where instead of the 4th age of men, we would ahve the 4th age of Men & Dwarfes. In truth, I was always saddened by the ending of Lord of the rings because the magic left middle-earth and durinsfolk went deeper into the mountains until they were but legends of old. In this timeline, the dwarfes would prosper and co-exist with the humans and keep at least some of the fantastical alive :)

"I am here asking for your help in a battle that will decide the ruler of Middle Earth." -man " And what sort of battle could possibly decide that?" -dwarf leader "isildurs bane. The one ring has been found, and is, as we speak, being taken somewhere to be hidden forever." -man "And why should the dwarves get involved in such a battle? We have our own problems to deal with." - dwarf leader "One word, one name, and I'm sure you will help me with the thousand soldiers I am asking for." -man "And what word could possibly have that sort of meaning to us dwarves!?" -dwarf leader "Baggins." -man "....how many warriors did you want to use?" -dwarf leader

@elliottknifton8902

2 жыл бұрын

I think second breakfast would also convince them

@Nogdog945

2 жыл бұрын

What about luncheon? Afternoon tea?

@thecowboyofoklahoma5866

2 жыл бұрын

"We've had one yes, what about second breakfast?" -Pip "Elevensies!? Luncheon?! Afternoon tea?! Dinner?! Supper!? He knows about them right?!" -Pip

@tylersoto7465

2 жыл бұрын

Bring some salted pork, ale and longbottom leaf lol

@joshuasepeda3289

3 ай бұрын

Thorin: YOU'LL TAKE TEN THOUSAND AND LIKE IT!!!

Soooo basically everything would have been a WHOLE LOT easier.

I think Thorin himself would've appeared in the Council of Elrond

@richardthomas5362

Жыл бұрын

It may not have been a good idea. The concentration of bad asses would have unbalanced the world, or would have turned Rivendell into a sink hole. :)

@SunbaeDan

11 ай бұрын

@@richardthomas5362 Don't worry, the presence of the living dwarven legend would be diluted to his reaction at seeing Bilbo and Gandalf, as well as another Baggins at Rivendell and seeing the living legend himself radiate "me and the bois" and "back in my day" energy.

Truly a happier and less dark and grim storyline to the story of Thorin. The saddest part of the Hobbit is when Beorn found Thorin, "surrounded by orcs and pierced with many spears", and picked him up and carried him from the battlefield. Then returning, he broke the orc lines with the sound like a clap of thunder and crushed Bolg. Didn't care for the Azog theme. Great video as always.

I always liked Thorin yet I always was conflicted about him dying. Like that I wanted him to live but his death was so awesome and sad and I loved it, that I was fine with him being dead

@FoxieShay

6 жыл бұрын

Matthew David I completely agree!!

@mayalackman7581

6 жыл бұрын

I concur!

@lc5286

6 жыл бұрын

Every single thing Tolkien's worte is awesome my friend. From the First page to the last. If you think about the world Tolkien created and all the fantasy beaind It its really all awesome.

@TTFSZ

4 жыл бұрын

First time I read the book "The Hobbit" I was 9..., and I cried when I read Thorin died..., it was tough after building the liking and relationship through the story and him falling it sucked..., for a 9 year old. Now the movies came out and extended editions and its just as bad seeing these deaths play out..., it sucks.

@PleaseNThankYou

4 жыл бұрын

Where is a magic spell when you need one! RIP Thorin.

It would have been interesting to explore major events more explicitly for this theory, like how the Battle of Helm's Deep would have played out had the Dwarves came to aid Theodin, or if perhaps Thorin would have sent scouts after Frodo and Sam upon learning the Fellowship has broken to offer them aid? Hell, imagine if the Dwarves were part of the Vanguard during the Rhohirim's charge on Pelenor fields! Thousands of armored Dwarves mounted on great rams alongside the Horse Lords!

@dylancasey1702

4 жыл бұрын

If we are going with that than the dwarves can bring out their anti arrow ballista that we see in the extended version of the battle of the five armies. Also i can just imagine the dwarves and men just mixed up then charging causing havok amoungst the orcs

well that was great! I do enjoy your alternate histories, awesome, but sensible, not crazy like some people do. -Orcs show up at the Shire, see hundreds of Dwarves who love the Hobbits dearly------ ..... crap

@joshuaanderson1369

4 жыл бұрын

I didn't even think about that. The scouring of the Shire either wouldn't have happened, or Frodo, Sam, Merry and Pippin would have had a lot of reinforcements.

I think Sauron's Military strategy would change greatly if The Dwarves were so United and powerful. The Northern assault would probably have been scrapped completely. Which means the Battle at Minas Tirith would have also been altered. It's a hard one to predict.

@loonowolf2160

3 ай бұрын

Nha Sauron would still gone same way, he had huge armies to spread on both fronts anyway

The thought of parts of Khazad-dûm being reclaimed is a sweet, sweet thought. Though, admittedly, I would've liked it if the Hobbits fought alongside the dwarves to prevent the Scouring of the Shire. As horrible as it was, it proved the might and resilience of the hobbits to the entire world and to themselves. That was something I really appreciated, and was kind of sad to see omitted in this timeline, but still a great theory!

@mrgrey21

4 жыл бұрын

The scouring wasn't the only time Hobbits fought. The battle of Greenfields, and even during the war between Arnor and Angmar, bands of Hobbits were noted fighting for the doomed free people of Arnor

@karlfranzemperorofmandefil5547

4 жыл бұрын

I don't think Khazad-dum could be reclaimed permanently because of Durins Bane.

@isaiahsellers6278

3 жыл бұрын

Most of groups from hobbit couldn't fight they never did

@leiflyon3583

3 жыл бұрын

Karl Franz Durins Bane (the Balrog) is killed by Gandalf after he makes his stand on the bridge of Khazad Dûm when the rest of the Fellowship escape Moria. Which because of the battle between the Balrog ( aka Durin's Bane) and Gandalf, Gandalf dies and is brought back by iluvitar (the major God in Tolkien's lore of middle earth) and is brought back as Gandalf the White. Which Gandalf later reveals to Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli in Fangorn Forest in the movie the Two Towers. So the retaking and permanent settling of Moria is completely possible and logically a very sensible thing to do if you are a dwarf lord under the rule of king Thorin Oakenshield. Just a little handy bit of information for you. 😊

@vorpalsword8165

3 жыл бұрын

@@leiflyon3583 since this is an "alt timeline"where Thorin lived, how would you know that what happen in the movies will happen here too?

Would have loved to see the interactions of the 2 high kings Thorin and Aragorn I wonder how Aragorns character development would have ended up if he grew up in a world in less fear due to a larger dwarf presence and how his values may conflict with Thorin's. 1 would hope by the time of the 2 meeting Thorin would be a more mature leader and not as rash in his hobbit days.

Thorin might've been able to convince Balin to stay in Erebor or at least take such precautions as enlisting Gandalf for his own quest. Given that Thorin had that connection with Mithrandir that Dain did not have.

Oh my god finally. This is an excellent video!

@barryallen6744

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you

I really hoped this would have happened. In the books Thorin and Dain were an exceptional Dwarves, their leadership and wisdom led their kin to the new age and strengthen their holdings and numbers after the sufferings of the War between Orcs & Dwarves and Battle of the Five Armies. I loved the idea that Thorin would send expeditions to find new holds and colonies to reclaim the old ones. I really would believe that some of the Dwarves from Thorin's company became in fact Lords and Stewards of newly established holds, for example; - Balin would eventually become the Lord of Moria after its being fully reclaimed form the Orcs and Goblins. - Óin would become Balin's steward, Guardian of the Gates of Moria and possibly Balin's heir if he does not get married. - Ori being the youngest of the Company would probably settle in Erebor and become Thorin's personal royal scribe and one of the emissaries, but he would eventually accompany Balin and Óin to help them keep the connections with Erebor. - Glóin would become one of Thorin's bodyguards or at least one of the advisers, he would then accompany his son Gimli to the Glittering Caves in Rohan and possibly settle there with him. And when Gimli becomes the first Lord of Glittering Caves I would believe that Glóin would probably become his steward and adviser. - Bifur, Bofur and Bombur would become Thorin's Honor-Guard (this has been hinted/supported in the books) and remain in Erebor for most of their lives following Thorin where ever he went. - Dori and Nori would lead the expedition to the Blue Mountains since they have lived in the northern parts. Together they would establish settlements and wealthy trading routes that would reach to the Bree & Shire, across Eriador, eventually with Gundabad and Grey Mountains, possibly also with the Elves of Lindon. - Dwalin I imagine would alongside Dain lead the armies of Erebor & Iron Hills against the Cold-drake in Grey Mountains and together after long skirmishes against it they would reclaim the Dain's Halls. Dain II Ironfoot would return to the Iron Hills, but leave his forces to Dwalin who would continue to purge the mountains from every/any possible Orcs and Goblins that still infested there. From there Dwalin would lead his forces to help the Valesmen and the Beornings in Anduin to push the Goblins/Orcs deeper and further in to the mountains. Valesmen and Beornings would then help Dwalin to liberate Gundabad. Afterwords I think that being his longtime friend and for his bravery Thorin would make Dwalin either the Lord of Dain's Halls or Gundabad.

I love how you give a good example of the lesson taught by the story and how it represents basic parts of life

Loved this video, Thorin is my favorite character. After watching this, I wish Tolkien would have left Thorin alive. I also would have liked to see his sister Dis, given more time in the appendices (since she is the only named female Dwarf in Tolkiens works). Like her being the only Dwarf who was upset with Thorin after he was renamed Durin, because of the loss of her sons.

I’d like a what if Kili had lived I always thought Fili had the most potential as a king so how would the emotionally driven Kili have ruled?

Here’s a unique “what if” video idea for you: what if Frerin (Thorin’s younger brother) lived? Frerin died in the battle for Moria at age 48, but what if he instead survived and accompanied his brother on the quest to reclaim Erebor? Could Frerin add anything new to the story? Also, what if Fili and Kili lived? I think Fili would have made a great king, and I was sad to see him and his brother die in the Battle of the Five Armies.

I always loved Thorin and Aragorn. I wish we got to see them meet.

This is a discussion I’ve wanted since I first read the hobbit! Thank you for making this video. This is one of my favorite channels on KZread and my favorite Tolkien channel. All I want to say is: thank you.

Thorin would've made a great king if he lived.

if thorin had survived he'd never had orcrist back since thranduil only placed it on his tomb after he died, not to forget Dol Guldur remained a threat up until sauron's defeat, so it's very likely thorin and the men of Dale would have continue fighting the raids and invasions slowing down the process of rebuilding erebor to it's former glory

@tuko4082

6 жыл бұрын

That is true

@tuko4082

6 жыл бұрын

yea once peace was established, thranduil would return it.

@kyomademon453

6 жыл бұрын

why would he return a gondolindrim sword let alone a sword of turgon to the dwarves? he only did out of respect for thorin and kinda as an apology for keeping him as a prisoner, if thorin survived thranduil would've kept the sword knowing the dwarves can make better steel

@tuko4082

6 жыл бұрын

That is true, after all it belongs to his kin. Yeah I agree with you on this one.

@kyomademon453

6 жыл бұрын

not necessarily his kin since we know he wasn't fond of the noldor due to the whole feanorian wars and ''noldor bring war'' (which they did), more like keeping it as a relic of the times of Beleriand

In this universe, Frodo never gets knifed at Weathertop because Thorin insists on Bilbo and Frodo having Dwarven bodyguards at all times, or regular visits anyway. Gandalf's letter of warning arrives in time because the frequent Dwarven visitors bring it, or at very least, the Dwarven bodyguards are urging haste due to having better battle strategy than the hobbits. Frodo's out of the Shire by August, safe in Rivendell by end of September, the Nazgul completely miss him and Frodo is safe and away. Might be he never goes West as a result.

I pictured an alternate ending where Thorin lived in BOTFA and it looked really good. Still a super emotional one with him and Bilbo

So basically you made the ending of the Battle of the Five Armies a happily ever after story... Nice

The last three hours i've been constantly checking KZread, waiting for this😅

I like your well thought out views, but I have a couple of suggestions. The first is that I don’t think the dwarves could have expanded as much as you suggested. That is because they simply did not have the population to do so at that time. Only 100 years before it took all seven dwarve houses to fight in the Goblin wars and that merely gave an army of 20,000. I do think that they would have done the Moria Expedition, though I think the stealth approach would have caused the Western team to see the pool as suspicious and they would have slowly drained it to ease the passing into Moria long before the Fellowship arrived.

Hey Yoystan, (huge fan btw), I think it’d be great if you made a video on Earendil, because I’ve always felt like he’s one of the most important characters in tolkiens world, but I feel like he’s sort of a confusing character, and I feel like Tolkien is sort of vague about his character on purpose, but I always felt things like the Silmarillon and the Unfinished Tales say things about Earendil and Elwing sort of matter-of-factly (for example, how Elwing transformed into a bird), even though a lot of what he does is confusing. Plus, it’d be a great video because of everything he ties into.

@TheMinecraftHype

6 жыл бұрын

John Smith Aiya Earendil Elenion Ancalima!

@lc5286

6 жыл бұрын

John Smith You're right! A video abaut It would be' awsome

I disagree, Thorin would not be Durin the seventh. The Durins were dwarves who were almost identical to Durin the Deathless. so Thorin would have been Durin already before the events of the hobbit.

I would be interested to see what would have happened if Thorin had died and Fili, aided by Kili had inherited the throne

Your Sunday night videos are a great end to the weekend that I've come to look forward to - thanks for the uploads!

Always looking forward to your videos. Always a treat!

I like your version better then the original :-D I always wondered what the role of the Dwarves was in the LOTR

Your channel is truly excellent - the timeless quality of the works of Tolkien really comes through in the respect that you show the material. Thank you.

Just started watching your channel, I love it!

I've been watching a lot of your older videos lately, and I must say this is my favorite. Well done.

this is one of my favorite What if videos? of yours and one of the few with a happy ending :)

Great video! I love everything about your videos, the structure, detail and the music and art you use.

I just wanted to say I love your videos bud and I actually look forward to them every week. You do an amazing job. O was wondering if you could possibly do a compilation video on the history of the great men of middle Earth like Aragorn, Turin, Beren, and Elros. I think that would be a good video. Anyways, keep up the great work cause I'm a huge LOTR, Hobbit, and Silmarilion fan!! Wouldn't that be awesome if they did a movie about Beren and Luthien. One thing that's has been lacking in the Hobbit and LOTR movie is real romance and love. Except of course for Aragorn and Arwen.

It's a nice theory, but I don't think Durin would've been any greater of a king then Dain. Dain made Erebor strong again as well, and his son eventually started recolonizing Moria again.

@Chazwozel1

5 жыл бұрын

I think Thorin would have unified all of the dwarves as the video suggests. Dain was a good ruler, but Throrin being the primary heir to the throne and the arkenstone as his heirloom would without question unite the dwarves of Middel Earth to flourish across the land; not just Erebor. Moria was attempted to be retaken, however, even after Gandalf destroyed the Balrog, dwarven strength was not sufficient to retake it.

@Jesse_andrew

3 жыл бұрын

Balins company failed but Durin the seventh (Dains son I believe)did reclam Moria

@imanguhathakurta662

3 жыл бұрын

@@Jesse_andrew Grandson, son of Thorn III Stonehelm

What if Thorin had accepted Saurons offer? This would be an alternate version of this video. Or what if Balin had accepted Saurons offer?

@MenoftheWest

6 жыл бұрын

Wheatly That would be an interesting story to discuss! In the desire to recover the Dwarven Rings and Khazad-dûm, he might’ve betrayed his non-Dwarven allies.

@kitten2799

6 жыл бұрын

Men of the West yes that’s what i think.

@fantasywind3923

6 жыл бұрын

I don't think neither Balin nor Thorin would accepted the offer, first of all Thorin would have personal grudge against Sauron for death of his father Thrain in dungeons of Dol Guldur, second even if they desired the remaining of the Seven Rings (which they did, as another Balin's hidden motive for expedition to Moria was hope of finding one of the Seven Rings, the one that belonged to kings of Moria since Durin III, that he believed must have been either buried in secret tombs of the kings or lost there after murder of Thrór by Azog, he was wrong of course as we learn). Balin and Thorin would also know well that revealing information on Bilbo and his home would put him in danger and both in the end were loyal friends to the hobbit (Balin especially seems to be close with Bilbo and would never want him to be in danger). Thorin's eventual political moves would also make him wary of making any deals with Mordor, knowing that it's a dangerous game and too risky, Dwarves in general didn't like attempts at foreign power dominating them, making deal with Sauron would put them exactly in such position (also Dain would advice against it, he was one of the wisest Dwarves, and that's why his portrayal in movie makes me angry, Billy Connolly might be good comedic actor but he wasn't good for this role).

@kitten2799

6 жыл бұрын

fantasywind yeah that’s true.

@KossolaxtheForesworn

5 жыл бұрын

what if we disregard the shitty peter jackson movies. now that be a great theory, we just go back to the book that was a hell a lot better.

I love this... I wish Fili and Kili would've seen this! T^T

These theory videos are my favourite thing on youtube. They are something new and surprising. Keep it up!

Awesome video! I started playing your vids like a month ago while Im at work. Its been great!

Thorin when he heard of Saruman and his folk been sighted in the Shire : "You messed up big time Saru-boy. Sons of Durin, bring me my 1000 best soldiers, I'm about to go and stretch my legs. This disgraced Istari is going night-night."

This was great, i forgot this was a theory in the middle of it. Keep up ur good work mate / love from Sweden

Another great video! Thank you for your hard work!!

Absolutely brilliant video! I've just found your channel can't believe I didn't know about it!!! Now going to binge watch all your videos. Thanks for the great content!,😊

The 6 people that disliked this were all listening to creed and watching twilight beforehand.

Another excellent video! Great job Joystan!

there is nothing more then i wish our king thorin would lived... in old vision tolkien wrote that thorinand fili annd kili suppose to live but it seem he change him mind

I always love your "what if" scenarios. Quite entertaining

Love this channel your insight and knowledge of the ages of middle earth is wonderful great work mate RESPECT FROM NEW ZEALAND

Love it so much. Great work as always.

Literally cannot LOVE this possible/alternative storyline more. Losing King Thorin most. It's incredibly heartwarming to see that you saw the same amazing potential of his role/rule. Beautiful!

I love your theory videos KEEP THEM COMING!

8:06 Omg that's the MC LOTR Golden Easterling design!

@FoxieShay

6 жыл бұрын

Arcen yep!!!

@arcen3169

6 жыл бұрын

Molly Shay Glad to see someone else who will join me in my conquests

nice video, and i must say i'm glad for once you've come up with a what if history that doesn't have a dark twist to it Also how would Gondors protection of the Shire be affected by this theory?

@MenoftheWest

6 жыл бұрын

KingdomH342 Thank you! I doubt it would have changed Gondor’s protection of the Shire much, as King Elessar would have likely still banned men from entering the land uninvited.

@douglasallar9176

2 жыл бұрын

@@MenoftheWest but not Dwarves and Elves.

some 4 years later and its still my favorite! can never get enough of this!

I think the biggest issue to me was that there wasn't some plot inducing reason to kill Thorin, Killi, and Filli. With Boromir, there was a reason, Gandalf's 'death' had reason. But this one just felt like Tolkien was using him as a punching back honestly. I felt so bad for him.

Great what if I always love your vids I hope everyone has a nice day

Amazing Video, as always!

excellent video! How preventing one death could have changed so much. great topic of discussion!

I keep missing the upload minute! I’m gonna keep trying to catch them! So good!

Awesome!!! Thorin was one of my favorites, was good to see him survive :-) These are great btw.

All this would've come to fruition had Thorin not died so much would've been accomplished.

Freaking awesome scenario, love it!! Keep up the great work sir!

Just seeing this video now. One of my favorites, if not my favorite theory video. I kind of wish it had happened this way. Great assessment and theory!

An uncharacteristically upbeat what-if, quite enjoyable! Thank you for this video!

You are the first lotr youtuber i have ever watched and this is the first video of your's i watched,and i subscribed when i just watched the first 5 seconds.

i love your videos, im super happy i found your channel for i have leard so much more of a would i love so much

Oh, how I loved this! Thank you for this video.

loved it thank you keep up these videos

This was the Best Theory Ever ! Wonderful ! So filled with Hope and a Bright Future !

I bet the Dwarves wouldn't have faded in the 4th age, since they'd be essentially entering it as a new Golden Age.

Nice work dude thanks

Great theory as ever. If your interested, try exploring what would have happened if Arnor never fell.

@rfigueiredomusic

6 жыл бұрын

sauron would have never invaded Minas Ithil, and never had a hold on osgiliath, he would be curbsumped by the might of Arnor and Gondor alone.

@rfigueiredomusic

6 жыл бұрын

also i don't think that moria would fall, has Arnor was allied to the dwarfs of khazad dum and would probably help them reclaim their ancestral home, that would make middle earth so much stronger in the third age.

Very good, keep up the good work bro

Thank you Yoystan! Blessings upon you, informed one.

I don't think Thorin would have been renamed Durin VII. The other 5 dwarves named Durin were named such because they so resembled their ancestor that it was thought they were Durin reincarnated. They wouldn't rename just because of great accomplishments. He would have gotten another nickname, though.

He came to his realisation in the end and was courageous till the end.

I love it when you do episodes on Dwarven history. If possible, do you think you could do an episode on the great war between Dwarves and the Goblins that took place before the capture of Ariadore by Smaug. Or do an episode on the traditions, and likes and dislikes of Dwarven culture? Keep up the great content!

This was very well done and entertaining I enjoyed it.

Hey. I know it is a little late but I still hope you see this man. I love all of your works on middle earth and I hope you do these as long as possible. I have two theory ideas to propose and I think would be fun to make a video on and/or research. Firstly, what if the bright lord from shadow of Mordor/war existed. I personally think it would have made sauron weaker, but would have possibly aroused more fear than hope. My second requested theory is one I have mentioned pleanty of times before, and that is what if Smaug dominated the one ring. These are requests and I doubt they are likely to happen... but still, thank you for the amazing content man. And keep it up

Thanks for the video! It is nice to see a what if video that doesn't end in tragedy :)

Teared up listening to this video. The possibilities of things to come if Thorin were to survive the battle. As always man, a joy to listen to you good sir :)

Plese do what if Durin's bane got the One ring.

@KonnyP

5 жыл бұрын

shit breaks loose

@spaghetii5337

5 жыл бұрын

Everyone would die.

@KonnyP

5 жыл бұрын

@@spaghetii5337 Sauron: Hey you balrog gimme back that ring tho Durin's Bane: No bro I wanna summon Morgoth back into Middle Earth Sauron: *Conflicting emotion noises*

@spaghetii5337

5 жыл бұрын

@@KonnyP You. Are. Amazing! 🤣

Nice storyline! Thanks

Fantastic video! I have often wondered what the story of Middle Earth and the Lord of the Rings would have been like had Thorin survived the battle of five armies. He was a great Dwarf, incredible warrior and a true leader of his peoples. Had he lived Middle Earth would have been far more prepared to deal with Sauron and Saruman having such a leader as him in the north, the casualites in Rohan and Gondor may well have been far fewer. Every time I watch battle of five armies even knowing what happens part of me is will Legolas, Dwalin, Gandalf... anyone to arrive in time to save Thorin. Wonderful video, expertly discussed.

I love your videos. This was just perfect.

Great video I really enjoyed this one. Could you do one on the maps of middle earth I saw a few in this video in it roused my interest

Such a great video 👌 ,please do more dwarven stuff i love hearing you talk about it.

These videos are cool keep up the great work

Another great video!! Thx :)

what a lovely idea :) love it - very in keeping with Tolkien's view of his world