Thoroughly enjoyable and informative, thank you Sir.

Great content! Keep up the good work. Getting me prepped to build my outbuilding 🙏

@build-better-things

11 ай бұрын

Thanks. Good luck with your project.

Great analysis and further makes the point that if you want to do anything construction related in the UK and have it turn out right, on time and on budget, then do it yourself! Looks like you have an excellent integration of sketchup with the your excel costing sheet, would you do an upload explaining your workflow sometime? I watch a lot of UK based construction related youtube and you content is top stuff and extremely useful !

@build-better-things

11 ай бұрын

Thanks a lot for your comment. On the SketchUp and spreadsheet integration, I made a video about my approach here. It didn’t seem to get a lot of interest so I haven’t followed up on it, which surprised me as I think the workflow has saved me so much hassle over the years and would be great for self builders. Here’s the vid…let me know what you think. GARDEN ROOM Sketchup tutorial build in 12 minutes with Sizes, downloads, order materials from model kzread.info/dash/bejne/ZYOmlLyKmLqwYbg.html

Really good insight provided here with the facts.......... Great video...... I have had a few friends recommending Sips but the math never added up to me

@build-better-things

11 ай бұрын

Thanks for your comment Peter.

@makg4655

11 ай бұрын

U must be using low prices would struggle to get materials alone for that price IMO

Great videos, thanks. However I would like to point out that your timber-framed wall example that reaches a u-value of 0.10w/m2K adds up to an overall wall thickness of 427mm, not 328mm as stated. A similar wall thickness to the SIPS example and no reason why it should be that different in thickness anyway.

Really interesting comparison. I've been researching a lot of content around SIPs recently and very interested in their potential in the UK. I hadn't come across an analysis as focused as this. It seems harsh but the numbers don't lie. I do believe that SIPs will overtake traditional building in the near future once manufacturing processes have improved and costs come down

@build-better-things

8 ай бұрын

I hope SIPs and other prefabricated technologies prosper…..but the problem the UK has always had since the 90s in the construction industry is lack of investment in plant and prefabrication. Volume house builders are just so dominant in the uk, and history tells us they are not going to change, despite their rhetoric. Just look at their sales brochures for what’s important to them. It’s left to smaller companies to innovate and for that, they need investment, which isn’t forthcoming. I know because I’ve been there myself. Thanks a lot for your comment.

This is more like a pre-fab vs. DIY battle. Due to the overhead cost/ logistics of pre-fab, it doesn't stand a chance for small footprints. However, thank you for providing us with the exact numbers!

My company build almost everything with Sip, its a really nice system. We also do traditional timber frame but its a lot of more work.

@build-better-things

5 күн бұрын

sips can work well. don’t agree with you that it’s less work, unless it’s a very big job, or you’ve already got a press, or you do lots of repeat work with a local manufacturer.

I worked most of my career as an analyst in the City. We took a lot of stick for being a bit shark like but at least when I was there, reputation was everything and you kept your word. I the last 4 years of my career I switched coverage to green tech. You almost wanted to count your fingers if you shook hands. No concept of shareholder value, they just expected shareholders to cough up more for no return! Some interesting ideas but no idea how to implement cost effectively . Fuel cell tech was the worst billions pumped in over 4 decades but we still do not have a commercially viable fuel cell. I suspect SIPs is much the same and heat pumps too. You take a simple and good idea and turn it over to the double glazing boys, who ramp up the price and blow the budget. Sips are a very basic concept, 2 sheets of 11mm OSB at £10 per sheet and a sheet of foam £58 ex vat, some glue and a press. Let’s say £90 in materials. So why are they so pricey? Lack of scale and lack of nous! Materials are cheap probably less than £90 presses are not. The number of presses limits production, hence big lead times and deposits required to finance holding the materials. How many presses would a manufacturer need depends on glue setting time but each press would probably cost between £30k and £50k more for computer control. It suddenly becomes a capital an ,machine intensive operation which needs volume for economy of scale.

@build-better-things

2 ай бұрын

Yes. House builders won’t invest in the cap ex because they say demand isn’t there. It’s true. Demand isn’t there because there’s no economies of scale. Classic chicken and egg in construction industry in UK.

Interesting video, full of useful information but you were talking about EPS SIPs not PIR so I'm not sure the thickness comparison for a given U-value, with timber frame infilled with PIR, stacks up. However PIR SIPS would be even more expensive than EPS ones so the cost comparison certainly does.

@build-better-things

6 ай бұрын

The reason I didn’t cover PIR was because the three manufacturers I looked at didn’t use them. Agree with the points you make about thickness and cost, and thanks for your comment.

Im looking yo build a 50sqm extrnsion for a house in London, so heavily researching SIPS. With labour costs being so high in London, SIPS is looking considerably cheaper than traditional methods (not timber frame however). The other factor is the general standard of builders in London is very poor in the domestic residential market. Having the extension facrory made is very appealing as if planned well glazing can be order once the SIPs design has been signed off.

@build-better-things

7 ай бұрын

If you can make the economic argument work, and you don’t have the supply issues I mentioned in the video, yes SIPs will definitely help as you’re not so reliant on checking they’re using the right insulation, breather membrane, vapour barrier etc. Your quality control issues will centre around the glues they use for the stick junctions, and the junction with the sub structure. Thanks for your comment

Very interesting. I always found SIPs companies to come across a bit ‘salesy’. I wonder if they become more cost effective with larger buildings, like a 3000sqft new build.

@build-better-things

11 ай бұрын

Yes, that’s when SIPs can get a little more competitive, through the prefabrication process then speed of construction to wind and watertight. Even then, I’d be very careful about marketing claims of the benefits, and forensic with the comparison (hidden costs such as crane costs, engineering costs, costs of drawing up the schedule of panels). Important to remember…places like in the USA, land availability means 3000sqft new build house opportunities are not uncommon, in the UK, for example, due to the planning policies and the cost of land, you’d need to be very wealthy or very lucky or be in a very remote location to have the luxury of a new build home of that size. Thanks for your comment.

Hi @build-better-things, I'm wondering how you batten out the exterior of the stud wall over the insulation and which side of the I insulation the breather membrane goes? Finally, the DPM, would you lap that up over the insulation or between that and the OSB and over or behind the breather membrane? I was totally sold on SIPs but I've done the sums and it's madness how much cheaper timber framing is. (I'm looking at building an approx 6mx6m infill extension on a 1930s detached house). I've commented about suspended v solid floor as I'd like suspended but until now the solid seemed marginally cheaper, however now I've done the sums on the framing suspended flooring seems like a winner. Just need some hefty joists (or easi-joists) to span the 6m! Unless of course you would recommend at least one block support and divide the flooring up into sections?

@build-better-things

2 ай бұрын

Hi. Breather membrane on cold side. If you mean the battens for the cladding, long screws through the insulation and membrane and into the wall studs. I’m not sure what you mean about DPM. That goes under your concrete slab or below the solum fora suspended timber floor. In terms of my preference, I’ll go for timber floor with solum over concrete all day long. I’ve made videos about Dpm, timber walls with insulation, and solum so check those out and thanks for the comment

@philij83

2 ай бұрын

@@build-better-things Thank you 👍🏼 The DPM laping was something I had seen advised elsewhere. The idea being that you pin the dpm excess up against the side of the structure, however that felt like a way for condensation to run down and get trapped 🤷🏻‍♂️ I'll go and find those other videos now.

Pricing up for an Aframe in Sweden, self build,,for some reason the local building planner is pushing for SIPS, which makes no sense, as my last roofing project was all stick with 380mm insulation/truss depth. Seems to be a breakdown in thought between architects and builders.

@build-better-things

11 ай бұрын

Everyone loves SIPs, especially architects. They think they’re better, but I don’t think they’ve ever actually analysed them, because they’ve never actually had to go through the experience of buying them. I would imagine your local planner in Sweden can only make rulings based on performance, not choice of specification, so for example, heat loss, air tightness, breathable aspect. All of this can be objectively compared and demonstrated using either technologies. I wouldn’t have thought they would perform any differently with regards Sweden’s specific climate given they’re both made of essentially the same materials.

@skaraborgcraft

11 ай бұрын

@@build-better-things Given my current house has walls made of sticks wrapped in straw and mud, they lose the "green" argument everytime, but seem fixated on "R" value above all else, including what people can afford.

Great vid. How can i calculate u value of my wall, is there an online calculator or better yet a spreadsheet? Thanks

@build-better-things

Ай бұрын

Yes, you choose which insulation manufacturer you want, and most of them have an online calculator where you fill in your wall, floor or roof makeups, and it selects the appropriate insulation. Good luck.

@DoctorRetina

Ай бұрын

@@build-better-thingsThanks Jerry, that's great. Is there a calculator that can then help me work out how much energy is required to heat a space given the estimated u value. That would be useful to work out ROI of various types of insulation. Thanks again.

@build-better-things

Ай бұрын

For that you need to calculate the volume of each room, then you can go to a heating company, one that sells radiators, and that have calculators that do that.

What kind of foundation would you recommend for those wooden frame extensions. Does it have to be concrete base with brick border

@build-better-things

11 ай бұрын

Strip foundation with timber suspended floor. Reason being if you’re doing timber frame for the walls and roof, with all the set up that entails, why not do it for the floor as well. Concrete floor is fine as well, but you’d still need a strip foundation for the loading of the walls. If it’s a simple garden room, I’ve seen people building their walls off a slab they’ve poured, not sure I’d do that, without thickening up the edges to take wall loadings, then you’re as well saying, why don’t I just put in mini piles as I’m doing here, which is perfect for a suspended timber floor. Don’t underestimate the work that goes into pouring a slab with insulation and Dpm as well. Hope that helps

@jmom687

11 ай бұрын

I like the piles idea as its an easier option. Another idea I seen was steal beam on concrete small patio type slab foundation with suspended timber floor. Which looks even easier.

@stepheno2462

9 ай бұрын

I’m sold, going to do timber frame and spray foam insulation. Great video

@build-better-things

9 ай бұрын

@stephenosman2462 Be careful with spray foam and make sure you read up on it. It’s not something I would recommend.

Ive just built a garden room using sips. For me the cost increase (not all that much) was worth it for the speed of construction which saves me money - because quite simply money is time!

@build-better-things

3 ай бұрын

Good to hear. My experience was different from yours. I tried for several weeks to get them to just reply to my emails, all 3 companies. Then the only one to come back , minimum of 10 weeks for delivery of panels… after the engineering!!!?. So probably 3 - 4 months. What a joke. No speed. For timber frame on the other hand, I can get the whole kit delivered to my door within a few days, and built within a couple of weeks tops. My thinking was, imagine if they’re like that now, what it’s going to be like once they’ve actually got my deposit. Hopefully your experience was different.

@davidjack9522

3 ай бұрын

@@build-better-things Don't get me wrong, I contacted a couple of companies and heard nothing. The one I used had good customer service from the start i.e. responded to my e-mails! I ordered ahead of when I anticipated to build and even though I live in the Scottish Highlands I received them around 5-6 weeks after ordering which was pretty decent (they were up front about how long it would take and kept to this schedule). I'd agree that if you want the materials quickly, SIPs have a definite draw back next to going to a merchant and picking up all that you need that day or so.

Great comparison, but there seems so much bias in it. Cost comparison alone it would have been great to have 2-3 quotes for the timber frame build. Seeing the sips build cost was based on a fully built structure. I imagine timber is more expensive with labour factored in from a non DIYers persepctive. Also the likes of kingspan tek-13 achieves a 0.13 u value for a wall thickness of 370mm as a reference.

@build-better-things

11 ай бұрын

I really don’t care which system I use, I just want to use the best, which is why I do the analysis. I mention in the video I went for 3 quotes…did you see that bit? On the labour cost, I factored in industry timber frame build rates in the spreadsheet part of the video, as I need it to be a like for like comparison with SIPs without the diy element. For Diyers further savings over SIPs could be made therefore . Kingspan Tek13 is not a like for like comparison as it returns only 0.13. I used 0.10 as the u value benchmark for the comparison. Maybe it’s you that has the bias 😉. Only joking and thanks for the comment.

Since I was in the carpenters union, and I have built several kinds of construction, I personally stick with SIP. Our company put up seven metal SIP schools in Florida versus another company who put a eight conventional. WE were done 7 months ahead of the others guys. Wood SIPs are slightly more difficult because of weight. However, Planning is always the secret on every job, but SIPs are too easy.

@build-better-things

11 ай бұрын

SIPs should be easier, except they’re not, at least not in the UK, and I hope I made it clear why, in the video. Pricing is one thing, SIPs in the UK is very expensive, I don’t mind paying for value, but, customer service is non existent, pathetic in fact, from all three of the manufacturers I approached, there’s no excuse for it, it costs nothing to engage with your potential customers and it says a lot about the attitude of the people running these companies .

@stevemcc4447

11 ай бұрын

I can understand because I once dealt with a manufacturer there. The regulations and taxes in the UK are over the top, as well. Sorry. In 2006, I traveled thru the US to find a good. cost effective manufacturer. I have great support, better pricing, and a refined process. Things have improved in the US because this kind of construction is more widely known and understood than 20years ago. Now, from a build perspective, it is hard to beat a SIP. I am restarting my building business and only building Timber frame with wood SIP overlay, metal SIP for garage and barns (and houseboat). Easy process, super solid house, very flexible and scalable system. @@build-better-things

Your thickness calculation is wrong for the timber frame. Its actually 427mm thick.