"Veronica" is not a Jewish name. It appears to be a conflation of the Greek words "vera" and "iconica" which mean "true icon." From the year 944 A.D. to 1204 A.D. the Orthodox Church in Constantinople was in possession of the Image of Edessa which was a folded up linen cloth which had an image of Jesus' face on it. This cloth was what we now call the Turin Shroud folded up so that only its facial aspect could be seen. The Byzantines painted icons of the Image of Edessa, and these icons were called "true icons" or "vera iconica" because they had been copied from the original scene, i.e. the Image of Edessa. The Byzantines also invented a new legend which better explained the blood and bruises depicted on Jesus face, and that legend said that the image of Jesus' face had been imprinted on the cloth when a woman offered that cloth to Jesus as he carried his cross. This legend along with the term "vera iconica" accompanied exports of icons to the West. The populace in the West applied the Greek words "vera iconica" to that woman and conflated those words to "Veronica." See minute 31:31. The truth of the matter is that the story of Veronica is a legend that has no basis in historical fact. It is not recorded in the Gosples, and did not come into being until the 10th or 11th century. For a detailed account see: "Holy Faces, Secret Places," Wilson, 1991.

@saveriosalemme5366

9 күн бұрын

Excellent!

@Nanaof_8

8 күн бұрын

So make a vid

@jeffreyerwin3665

8 күн бұрын

@@Nanaof_8 Don't know how. My primary interest is the Prophecy of the Popes which is poorly understood. Veronica can wait.

The question put forth by this video is whether the Veronica is a miracle or a forgery. The answer is "neither." The Veronicas (there were more than one) were simply Byzantine icons of the Mandylion that were painted on cloth. An icon is not a "forgery," it is just a painting of some kind of religious scene. In this case the scene was the allegedly miraculous image of Jesus' face that was on the Mandylion. When those icons were exported to the West, the populace mistook them for miraculous depictions of Jesus' face. But that mistake does not make those icons "forgeries" as they were never intended to be understood as anything more than painted icons. In this regard, it should be understood that the Manoppello image is not a Byzantine icon and was not made using the Mandylion as a model. Most likely it a watercolor painted by Durer on a transparent fabric. It has the characteristics of a Medieval European rendition of Jesus' face.

....and it coincidentally exhibits decidedly late medival/Renaissance style.

So we're all going to pretend that my 4 year old couldn't produce a more convincing drawing than either of these? How ridiculous is this?

@jaynepointon8284

23 сағат бұрын

😂 thank goodness you said this, I thought I was going crazy 😂😂😂

No wounds on the forehead, no crown of thorns, no blood transfer. An artists impression.

@jeffreyerwin3665

7 күн бұрын

Good point.

@Jan_von_Gratschoff

5 күн бұрын

Considering we know next to nothing about Jesus's crucifixion nothing you cited can be used to prove anything. Every account of the crucifixion vary so vastly in detail, from the day of the execution down to the more minute details, that we can't say anything more than that an apocalyptic lunatic most likely called Jesus was crucified.

@jeffreyerwin3665

4 күн бұрын

@@Jan_von_Gratschoff "We?" Speak for yourself, sir. Many of us know a lot about these things and can say a lot more, too. The "lunatic" slur is more aptly applied to your own self. (LOL!)

@chuckyoneill9029

2 күн бұрын

No one alive was there let alone you!

@chuckyoneill9029

2 күн бұрын

@@jeffreyerwin3665 Lunatics no nothing so should have no opinion 😂

Interesting......but still only objects, real, false or otherwise....not to be prayed to, or venerated.

@busterbiloxi3833

3 күн бұрын

It was a miracle!

Miraculous images of Christ are known as acheiropoieta. It is generally thought that the most influential image of Christ was actually above the Chalke gate in Constantinope, it was known as Christ of the chalke. This image influenced so many mosaic masters that even today we may get a good idea of what it actually looked like from Byzantine and early Russian churches.

@jeffreyerwin3665

3 күн бұрын

The "Christ of the chalke," as far as I can tell, was an icon which was not regarded as miraculous in its origin. It was propably based on the Image of Edessa which was expropriated to Constantinople in 944 A.D.

@nicholaswestley9851

3 күн бұрын

@@jeffreyerwin3665 There has been some speculation that Christ of the chalke might possibly have been a mosaic and it is referred to as an icon in a number of texts. I agree with you that from our perspective it's not a miraculous image, but from a Byzantine perspective many may have believed that this image of Christ had properties of the individual it depicted, including miraculous properties. When Theodosia saw a soldier trying to destroy this image it made her so angry that she knocked him off his ladder and he died. She was executed for this, but then canonised as a saint later for defending the image of Christ, she obviously believed that there was more to this image than just a representation of Jesus.

Let's see...Passover in the Holy Land. Jesus has been up all night. Been scourged, tears of pity for his torturers...beaten...sweaty, oily skin, sandy dry terrain...why WOULDN'T there be an imprint on a cloth given to wipe his face?:

Interesting documentary.💯👏

Archie. And Veronica.

@busterbiloxi3833

3 күн бұрын

Betty and Veronica.

I CAN'T. Paul and that priest actually have dinner IN Turin. IN TURIN. THE most studied artefect of ANY type, in all human history, is practically down the street, and these foremen go and get ga-ga over a cartoon charactiture. Lord help me.

@robertschumann7737

9 күн бұрын

The shroud of Turin has already been proven to be a fraud. They are all frauds. Every last one of them.

@jeffreyerwin3665

9 күн бұрын

In 1978 24 scientists spent five days examining the Shroud and its images. They had four TONS of equipment and went over every inch of the cloth. If the images on the Shroud had been any kind of medieval forgery, those scientists would easily have found that out. They spent three years analyzing their evidence, but in the end they had to admit failure. They could not explain how the Shroud's images of a crucified corpse had been imprinted on the cloth. Currently, there is a standing reward offered of one million dollars to anyone who can accurately reproduce the images found on the Shroud. No one has even treid to claim that reward.

The written introduction says , ". . .with no one knowing if the copy held by the Vatican is the real deal or not." Actually, many scholars do know, and what they know is: 1. The story of Veronica is not in the Gospels and only appeared in the 11th century. 2. In 944 A.D. the Image of Edessa was expropriated to Constantinople. The Byzantines painted icons of this relic which had an (allegedly) miraculous image of Jesus' face on it. Some of the icons were painted on cloth and then exported to the West under the guise of "Vera Iconica" or "true icon." 3. The Byzantines invented a new legend which better explained the facial features of Jesus found on the Image of Edessa. That legend was that a woman had offered a cloth to wipe Jesus' face as he carried his cross and that his facial depiction was miraculously imprinted on the cloth. 4. The Western populace mis-understood the words of "Vera Iconica" to mean the name of the woman who had offered Jesus a face-cloth, and they conflated those two words into "Veronica." 5. More than one so-called "Veronica" was exported to the West, and, at one point, the Pope had to intervene to sort out which one was the authentic "Veronica." (LOL) 6. See: "Holy Faces, Secret Places," Wilson, 1991, for a well researched run-down on all of this Veronica nonsense.

Curious if the Veronica image matches up with the Shroud of Turin.

@robertschumann7737

9 күн бұрын

The Shroud of Turin has already been proven to be a medieval fraud.

@jeffreyerwin3665

9 күн бұрын

That depends on which Veronica you are talking about. Most of the Veronica depictions originated in Constantinople and were based on the facial image of the Mandylion. They are similar in appreance and sepia color to the image of Jesus' face on the Shroud. The highly touted Manoppello image did not originate in Constantinople and is most likely a watercolor painting by Durer on a transparent fabric. It does not match up with Shroud's image.

@jodienovello5881

2 күн бұрын

it doesn't

What about the dimensions?

What a con.

"So-called" Stations of the Cross? That sounds like the person making that claim is calling Jesus a fraud.

@David-og7di

4 күн бұрын

Charing Cross ?

The Mandylion is also in the Vatican collection; neither portrait looks like the other!

@jeffreyerwin3665

8 күн бұрын

The Vatican may have an icon of the Mandylion. The actual cloth was lost from history when the French 4th Crusade sacked Constantinople in 1204 A.D. It may have surfaced in Lirey, France, in about 1357.

WAS HER NAME ACTUALLY REALLY VERONICAM?

Cannot believe a priest just stated that Pontius Pilate condemned Jesus! He famously washed his hands of Jesus - the pharmacies condemned him.

@busterbiloxi3833

3 күн бұрын

Walgreen’s or Duane Reede?

@hildahilpert5018

3 күн бұрын

What that,s in the bible.

@nicholaswestley9851

2 күн бұрын

I think you should understand that crucifixion was a Roman punishment, if Christ had been sentenced by Jews he would have been stoned to death as that was their punishment, and as far as I'm aware no pharmacies were involved in condemning Christ to death.

Just say Shroud of Turin.

@krystinaland4137

9 күн бұрын

It's not tho. Whole different relic

@atlantic_love

9 күн бұрын

Downvote the video if you disagree with it.

@jeffreyerwin3665

9 күн бұрын

@@krystinaland4137 The Veronica icons were derived from the facial depiction of Jesus that is on the Shroud.

@krystinaland4137

8 күн бұрын

@@jeffreyerwin3665 did you not watch the doc? And that can't be true because the picture on the shroud looks nothing like the Veronica. They didn't even know the shroud contained an image of a face until negatives became a thing. However I don't Believe it to be real because I know how God feels about images and idols, he hates them. So why would he himself make an image of himself for man? It's like creating a stumbling block and I don't think that's God's character. But hey I could be wrong.

@jeffreyerwin3665

7 күн бұрын

@@krystinaland4137 God's commandment to man is that man must not make idols for worship. God can order men to make a "two golden cherubs" as embelishments for the Ark of the Covenant (Ex. 25:18), but these are not representations of any god and are not worshipped. God commanded man not to kill, but God himself is not bound by that commandment (see 2 Sam 6:7) The reason that Jesus left the images of his corpse on his burial cloth is to fulfill his promise of a sign from himself (Mt. 12:38) that would be for "an evil generation." Jesus defined that sign by predicting that his burial would only last a short time (Mt. 12:40) The images of his dead body that are on the Shroud validate that promise. They prove that his corpse was removed from that cloth less than 48 hours after death. That is why those images are there. They fulfill Jesus' promise of a sign and they prove that he was a real first century person in this evil era when people try to say that he never even existed. Since the images are miraculous, they also prove that he worked miracles, and they validate his teachings. In ancient times the Shroud has hidden in a secret vault until the sixth century. When it was recovered it was always viewed folded several times so that only its facial aspect was shown. An idea of what Jesus looked like was derived from this facial image even though it is like a photographic negative. Many Veronica icons have been made, and these are similar to what is seen on the Shroud. The Manoppello image was not derived directly from the Shroud and is most likely a watercolor painting by Durer on a transparent cloth.

Oh my word, are we really meant to accept a painting on a thin piece of cloth as a the magic image of somebody? Come on, if you smeared your face with oil and dirt, and put a cloth over it to gain an impression, it would be a smear, a mere skidmark.

They are all forgeries.

@GizmoFromPizmo

9 күн бұрын

I mean, the event never took place in the first place. This is much ado about nothing. The Empire's religion is an amusement park that expects us to take it seriously.

@JohnBieniaSongbook

9 күн бұрын

​How do you know it never happened? How can you possibly know that. Where's your faith?

@JohnBieniaSongbook

9 күн бұрын

​How do you know it never happened? How can you possibly know that. Where's your faith?

@David-og7di

4 күн бұрын

@@JohnBieniaSongbook where is your understanding of art history? that image has more to do with a quattrocento stlye of depiction than an artifact from 2000 years ago

When God was the ten commandments he didn't say the three of us you got to worship us all he said there's only one God

@EffectPlaceboThe

7 күн бұрын

There is no god

@shilohmjh7628

5 күн бұрын

“Let Us create man in Our image.” Genesis, God at creation “I and the Father are one.” -Jesus’ own words

@joshwilko4430

22 сағат бұрын

old Testament and New Testament are clearly, not the same god.

Aya varonikagaa kathava magaa ammata athmayan labunu balaya jasugan avasara ganeema kapu gass vava ganeemata avsaraya ahara valata amatharava radhe saha anik avsyathaa vanuvan kapu pulun gass vavemaa avsaraya labaa ganeemata ammata labunu suddhathma dahaya

If Jesus hands were tied to the cross as he carried it, how did he wipe his face and hand the cloth back to her? Nonsense.

@hildahilpert5018

3 күн бұрын

No his hands were not tied while he carried the cross.Whete are people getting this stuff??

The veil Never existed and you are bonkers.

Wrong ethnicity

I still can't believe people believe in this nonsense it's just a bunch of stories even if there was an historical person that existed stories are not logical there's nobody I can come back from the dead stories of illogical

All of these are just silly none of them are real.

What is wrong with you people I just don't understand God is God is God is god. God is not a trinity he is one God not three😮

@gladeloy3341

2 күн бұрын

God IS God ! IS God IS ? God equals ALL that IS ! There IS only the One ! All other is but a fraction of the One !

A painting 😊