Excellent discussion, and Dr. K is very well-spoken and a clear thinker.

I found it very interesting to read the letters to different churches and see various expressions already developing. You guys find great guests.

The books of Veli-Matti Kärkkäinen are really good, have been very helpful for me of the ones I read. Instead of a magnum opus of all systematic theology, he have a book of each subject that would be included in one.

Great episode! The last few minutes was most relevant to me as it spoke to the house church movement. I’m laboring in the Middle East and this is the predominant way we are seeing the gospel advance, churches planted, and people discipled. I would love if there was an episode on the ecclesiological differences between Church Planting movements which place a high value on having biblically qualified leaders who can teach the word and pastor a community, vs the Discipleship Making Movement which has become extremely popular in persecuted places over the last 2 decades. This movement focuses more on the fast expansion of the gospel even at the expense of quality of leaders and follow up on doctrine/holy lifestyles of the people in the groups. Typically church planting communities reproduce at a slower rate than DMM communities. So I’d love a deep dive in to your thoughts on the two methodologies! For reference I have practiced both strategies over the last 6 years with MBB’s and moved away from the DMM method and am focusing more on discipleship within a church planting context.

This was so interesting. I loved it! Thank you so much guys!

Maranatha!

I enjoyed this episode. I was impressed how easily Dr K answered some tough questions. The only thing that bothered me though was on whether baptism and communion are sacraments vs ordinances. It seems a very important topic so I’m curious how he reconciles the different viewpoints.

@TreeOfLifeWoodworking

3 ай бұрын

What are you wanting him to maybe say that he didnt?

I found it interesting that the AG churches I grew up in maintain a system and structure of ordination. It seems unusual for a pentecostal church, while this is normal in high church denominations.

Re: Rountree and wives and beards... Eustace II of Boulogne (also called Eustace aux Grenons i.e. Eustace "with long mustaches") stands out on the Bayeux Tapestry because he groomed his facial hair in the style most likely pleasing to his English wife versus Norman style, despite being a Norman invader.

This may not be the best place to ask this, but I’m not sure what is - would love to hear your thoughts about Curry Blake from John G. Lake Ministries. My mother is very much into his teachings and even as a charismatic myself, I have a lot of questions. Not sure if he’s on your radar or not.

@andrewmattiewalter

3 ай бұрын

I just went and watched some of his videos, he seems to preach a "word of faith" and "prosperity gospel" I would encourage you to stay away.

@chrishollister4833

3 ай бұрын

We went to see Curry a couple years ago. I wouldnt use the term prosperity gospel. He DOES count on God to supply ALL his needs. Nothing like Olsteen. Curry preaches the Gospel. My grandson was healed from a disabling disease after we attended a conference on healing.

As a senior pastor I think we make everything way too difficult. Preach the gospel, love people, speak the truth in love… And quit destroying each other over side issues.

@ninjason57

3 ай бұрын

Problem is everyone has a differing definition of "side issues". Who's the authority in deciding what's a primary issue and what's a secondary issue?

It's not that complicated. Without first acknowledging that hierarchy in the body of Christ is error, churches will find a way to make hierarchy fit, also its in Pastors self-interest to make it fit don't forget that.

@freed.man.1

3 ай бұрын

But are Elder and Deacon not hierarchical? Paul writes and appoints such people.

@joefrescoln

3 ай бұрын

It's not whether you will have a heirachy, but rather which one, or what kind you'll have.

Thank you for highlighting this topic today. Let's lay down some Biblical foundation to begin with. The Greek term, ἐκκλησία (ekklesia), as it pertains to the people of God, is… - a common noun - an informal term - a term that predates the apostles and New Testament writings - a description of the assemblies and congregations of Israel in the Old Testament (Deuteronomy 31:30; Acts 7:38) - a description of the assemblies and congregations of Christians in the New Testament (Matthew 18:17; 1 Corinthians 11:18) - a description of all the saints in salvation history, glorified in heaven (Hebrews 12:23)

@BrotherInChrist

3 ай бұрын

The English translation of ἐκκλησία is assembly, congregation, or gathering. The English transliteration of ἐκκλησία is ekklesia. ἐκκλησία (ekklesia), originates from two terms: ἐκ + καλέω (Greek) - ek + kaleo (English transliteration) ἐκ = out / καλέω = to call / “called out” 1 Peter 2:9 “But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called (καλέω) you out (ἐκ) of darkness into his marvelous light.”

@BrotherInChrist

3 ай бұрын

Biblically speaking, there is no, "The Church," capital "C." This error occurred in the 4th century when Jerome (Eusebius Hieronymus) transliterated the Greek term ekklesia into the Latin term ecclesiam, while commissioned by Pope Damasus to write the Vulgate translation. Roman Catholics attempted to make "church" a proper noun (Ecclesiam), and thus an institution, comprised of clergy and laity. They were eventually corrected by William Tyndale in the 16th century, leading to his martyrdom. This informal term, ekklesia, is used 66 times in 62 verses of the Old Testament (LXX), starting with Deuteronomy 4:10, in reference to the people of God, gathered before God, at Mt. Sinai. The ekklesia includes faith-filled believers as well as faith-less unbelievers; all who gather; also known as the church visible (Christendom). The formal term for believers in our times is Christian, or, as a group, Christians. 1 Peter 4:16 “But if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but glorify God that you bear that name.” The Old Testament ekklesia was the nation of the twelve tribes of Israel (including sojourners and proselytes), called out of Egypt to be God’s possession; a people in covenant with God. Many in the Old Testament ekklesia were not saved because they were not united by faith with those who listened to the good news (Hebrews 4:2). The Object of faith for the Old Testament saints was the Coming One; the coming Christ who is to bruise the head of the serpent (Genesis 3:15). In Hebrews 11, we learn that Moses regarded disgrace for the sake of Christ as of greater value than the treasures of Egypt, because he was looking ahead to his reward (Hebrews 11:26). The New Testament ekklesia is comprised of Jew and Gentile, called out of the world to be God’s possession; a people in covenant with God. Many in the New Testament ekklesia are not saved because they do not understand the word of the kingdom, some fall away because of tribulation or persecution, and others are unfruitful because the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word (Matthew 13:18-22). The righteous shall live by faith, and those who have faith preserve their souls (Hebrews 10:38-39). The Object of faith for the New Testament saints is the crucified, buried, and resurrected Christ, Jesus of Nazareth; our coming King (Matthew 25:31-46). Within the Old Testament and New Testament ekklesias are the saints of God, counted righteous by faith; the sons of Abraham (Galatians 3:7, 29). Together we are made perfect (Hebrews 11:40)-resurrected and raptured (caught up to God; Greek, harpazo) at the parousia, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ; our blessed hope.

@BrotherInChrist

3 ай бұрын

The "church age" is not a thing unless your starting point is Deuteronomy 4:10. Did the New Testament church begin at Pentecost? When you hear someone speak or write the phrase, "Did the church replace Israel?", what they usually mean to say is, "Did Christians replace Israel as the ekklesia of God?", or, "Did Christians replace Israel as the recipients of the promises to Abraham through the Seed?" Blessings in Christ

@BlastHardcheese194

3 ай бұрын

Therefore Covenantalism and probably Amillenialism, amirite?

@BrotherInChrist

3 ай бұрын

@@BlastHardcheese194 Hi Blast... No, I believe Scripture reveals a premillennial return of Christ (chiliasm), and I believe Israel is restored to God when the Son of man returns as King. Both covenantalists and dispensationalists have a piece of the truth, and both have doctrinal error; the Father's heart is grieved by sons who place their faith in ~isms and ~ologies. Amen? Blessings

38:45 The whole chapter of 1Cor10 addresses two types of communion, good or evil. When that communion is evil by joining ourselves to statue worship communion, such as communion with priests who daily practice adultery or pedophilia or homosexuality or praying to Mary, then those who partake of communion there become a church agreeing with the devil. Verse 21 sums it up. 1Co 10:21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.

Why not ask the disciples of the Apostles and the Church that continues on after the pages of the New Testament. This Church has bishops (the successors of the Apostles and their coworkers), presbyters, and deacons. The Eucharist is the center of ecclesiology. The Church is the Body of Christ. That same Jesus Christ who is a REAL man and entered into matter and real, visible existence. The Church, then, should also be a real, visible existence in the Earth. It is that Church gathered around the bishops who are the successors of the Apostles ministering the Eucharist that is the true Church. It didn’t take until the Reformation for the doctrine of the Church to be developed. It was quite literally taught from the first century. Protestants have an ecclesiology that is incoherent and not apostolic. As a former Protestant I encourage everyone here to read the early Fathers and the ecumenical councils and see how they interpreted the mystery of the Church found in the Holy Scriptures. May God bless.

2:08 so you leave your wife to vent for herself?

EQUALITY is the foundation of the Body of Christ. It was the first error to enter the body of Christ which Paul prophesied about. Jesus talked about it, it's all over scripture. As it was the first error to enter the church so it will be the last error to be corrected in this reformation. Those that hold onto hierarchy in the church are by definition the false church.

@jasminnchestnut3993

3 ай бұрын

Jesus is the foundation of the body of Christ. And the chief cornerstone. 1 Cor. 3:11, Eph. 2:20

@brandonjohnson4822

3 ай бұрын

I’m sorry, but you have to define “equality” as the term has been so mangled and hijacked that it subjectively means all types of things. With that said, the church clearly had spiritual hierarchies from the standpoint of roles and authority. Biblically speaking, there’s really no way to get around this when the Bible not only clearly articulates the roles of the apostles, profits, elders, etc. but also what their function was. How did you come to this conclusion?

@stevendonohoe2150

2 ай бұрын

​@@brandonjohnson4822 Hi, sorry for the late reply, Hi brother, as an elder & a mature beleiver who has been around sometime. Let me bring some light on this subject. The premise that there is such a thing as a man of God a leader to exalt and follow is error. The greatest Evil in the body of Christ today is the error of Hierarchy. The majority of the dysfunction we see comes from this error. The truth is every beleiver is perfectly equal in regards to authority which is opposite to the hierarchical church system we see today with a top down authority. Even those with Ephesians 4 functions are still to be seen as equals and are equal in authority. As the Apostle Paul taught we are to manage honor amongst our brother & sisters to ensure it is always equal knowing that when equal honor is established the love of Christ will flow throughout the body unhindered which is the goal. (LOVE) To achieve this some brothers & sisters may need to be given more honor & others that are naturally gifted already have worldly honor. In this situation they are encourged to be servant of all as this is the way of the kingdom. If we were living by the truth there would be no fall of a minister as you have to be exalted first in order to fall. Pastors (ministers in many cases have usurped the authorty of Christ by operating under a hierarchical system) The only one to be exalted is Christ alone as he is the head we are the body. Different functions working perfectly together while maintaining equal honor. And when one's amongst us try to exalt themselves as an authority or give the perception of acting in a hierarchy manner are to be lovely corrected. If they don't listen then tell it to the elders who are the overseers of equally in the church. Scripture teaches us to avoid even t appearance of Hierarchy. Examples of perceived or actual hierarchy can be as follows buy not limited to. 1. A stage 2. Front row for VIP's 3. One individual who does most of talking every week when beleivers gather. 4. An individual who likes to be named by title. 5. Where equality is not the main theme of doctrine taught. Elders are to be recognised & appointed (Mature beleivers) to exhort & rebuke & to ensure equality is maintained in the local community of beleivers. Paul warned with tears that times would come when wolves would arise & draw deciples to themselves. You can tell who they are because they exalt themselves & beleive in individual authority which is the Antichrist spirit & the foundation of the false church system we see today. A true Elder (overseer) never claims individual authority & teaches equality & and encourages unity with fellow elders who uphold the same doctrine. Stay humble brothers & sisters. Pursue equality & the love of Christ ❤

@stevendonohoe2150

2 ай бұрын

​@@jasminnchestnut3993Hi brother, I agree Jesus is the foundation❤ I beleive the greatest Evil in the body of Christ today is the error of Hierarchy. The majority of the dysfunction we see comes from this error. The truth is every beleiver is perfectly equal in regards to authority which is opposite to the hierarchical church system we see today with a top down authority. Even those with Ephesians 4 functions are still to be seen as equals and are equal in authority. As the Apostle Paul taught we are to manage honor amongst our brother & sisters to ensure it is always equal knowing that when equal honor is established the love of Christ will flow throughout the body unhindered which is the goal. (LOVE) To achieve this some brothers & sisters may need to be given more honor & others that are naturally gifted already have worldly honor. In this situation they are encourged to be servant of all as this is the way of the kingdom. If we were living by the truth there would be no fall of a minister as you have to be exalted first in order to fall. Pastors (ministers in many cases have usurped the authorty of Christ by operating under a hierarchical system) The only one to be exalted is Christ alone as he is the head we are the body. Different functions working perfectly together while maintaining equal honor. And when one's amongst us try to exalt themselves as an authority or give the perception of acting in a hierarchy manner are to be lovely corrected. If they don't listen then tell it to the elders who are the overseers of equally in the church. Scripture teaches us to avoid even t appearance of Hierarchy. Examples of perceived or actual hierarchy can be as follows buy not limited to. 1. A stage 2. Front row for VIP's 3. One individual who does most of talking every week when beleivers gather. 4. An individual who likes to be named by title. 5. Where equality is not the main theme of doctrine taught. Elders are to be recognised & appointed (Mature beleivers) to exhort & rebuke & to ensure equality is maintained in the local community of beleivers. Paul warned with tears that times would come when wolves would arise & draw deciples to themselves. You can tell who they are because they exalt themselves & beleive in individual authority which is the Antichrist spirit & the foundation of the false church system we see today. A true Elder (overseer) never claims individual authority & teaches equality & and encourages unity with fellow elders who uphold the same doctrine. Stay humble brothers & sisters. Pursue equality & the love of Christ ❤

This here is a wee bit dry.

The ‘church’ is not scriptural it is the ‘theological echo-chamber’.

@shawngillogly6873

3 ай бұрын

Church is a valid English rendering of Ekklesia. Which is used in both the NT and LXX for the people of God. Not just a local gathering.

@brandonjohnson4822

3 ай бұрын

Jesus, His disciples, Paul, Peter and many others would say otherwise. The real question is, how did you come to believe this?

@kenbarber6592

3 ай бұрын

@@brandonjohnson4822 • Thanks for asking. The inspired scripture uses the Greek word, “ekklesia”, “called out”, or “the called out”. This is a word that has no need of further interpretation/translation. The word ‘church’, charitably, is derived from ‘kuriakon’, ‘the Lord’s house’, which sounds pious and Jesus-honouring but it bears no relationship to “the called out” who were of Israelite heritage, “144,000”, “12,000 from the 12 tribes of Israel”, in the 1st century AD. The obfuscation of God’s description of this unique company, and their completed mission within “this generation” (40 years), has hidden the the finished work of Jesus Christ at the cross that was completed when He came again, as Christ Jesus in 70 AD, to judge Israel at the “great and terrible day of the Lord”, “the day of vengeance of our (prophesied to Israel’s) God.” Jesus “disciples, Paul, Peter, and many others”, were of “the called out.” They were “the elect of God”; “the wise (and not foolish) virgins”; “the scattered sheep” that Jesus was “only sent to”; “the body of Christ”, “chosen in Him from before the foundation of the world.” The unnecessary, arbitrary, and religiously insinuated mistranslation of ‘church’ or ‘the church’ (80+ times!) has hidden what God demonstrated through “the called out” which is the birthright of all humanity - which is that we, all of mankind, have the Father and the Son dwelling in us in Spirit. ‘The church’ is sectarian, it has “a form of Godliness but denies the power thereof”, they “have made the word of God of none effect through your traditions, and many like things do ye.” I hope this helps. Peace. 🙏

@kenbarber6592

3 ай бұрын

@@shawngillogly6873 •. Thanks for sharing, but … nope. That is what you have been taught, but it is not the truth. The inspired scripture says, Greek, ekklesia, “called out”, or “the called out”. This is a word that has no need of further interpretation/translation. The word ‘church’, charitably is derived from ‘kuriakon’, ‘the Lord’s house’, which sounds pious and Jesus-honouring but it bears no relationship to “the called out” who were of Israelite heritage, “144,000”, “12,000 from the 12 tribes of Israel”, in the 1st century AD. The obfuscation of this unique company, and their completed mission within “this generation”/40 years, has hidden the finished work of Jesus Christ at the cross that was completed when He came again, as ChristJesus in 70 AD, to judge Israel at the “great and terrible day of the Lord”, “the day of vengeance of our (Israel’s) God.” Jesus “disciples, Paul, Peter, and many others”, were “the called out.” The unnecessary, arbitrary, and religious insinuation of the mistranslation of ‘church’ or ‘the church’ (80+ times) has hidden the birthright of all humanity -which is that we, all of mankind, have the Father and the Son dwelling in us in Spirit. ‘The church’ “has a form of Godliness but denies the power thereof.” I hope this helps. Peace.

@kenbarber6592

3 ай бұрын

@@shawngillogly6873 • The inspired scripture says, Greek, ekklesia, “called out”, or “the called out”. This is a word that has no need of further interpretation/translation. The word ‘church’, charitably is derived from ‘kuriakon’, ‘the Lord’s house’, which sounds pious and Jesus-honouring but it bears no relationship to “the called out” who were of Israelite heritage, “144,000”, “12,000 from the 12 tribes of Israel”, in the 1st century AD. The obfuscation of this unique company, and their completed mission within “this generation”/40 years, has hidden the the finished work of Jesus Christ at the cross that was completed when He came again, as ChristJesus in 70 AD, to judge Israel at the “great and terrible day of the Lord”, “the day of vengeance of our (Israel’s) God.” Jesus “disciples, Paul, Peter, and many others”, were “the called out.” The unnecessary, arbitrary, and religious insinuation of the mistranslation of ‘church’ or ‘the church’ (80+ times) has hidden the birthright of all humanity -which is that we, all of mankind, have the Father and the Son dwelling in us in Spirit. ‘The church’ “has a form of Godliness but denies the power thereof.” I hope this helps.