What makes a map COMPETITIVE?

Ойын-сауық

No matter what FPS game you play, you always play on a map. If the map isn't good, the game wont be fun either, so how do we make a competitive map, and what are the ingredients needed to craft the new DUST2?
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Пікірлер: 287

  • @Archmeton
    @Archmeton Жыл бұрын

    My first "general FPS" video! How did you like it? 😁 (Also yes, I misspoke at 3:34, I meant "titles that DO have". Also I miss wrote symmetrical a couple times but uhhh... did you notice those mistakes xD?)

  • @recoded2443

    @recoded2443

    Жыл бұрын

    W Video

  • @daddles.

    @daddles.

    Жыл бұрын

    Didn’t notice since I haven’t seen it yet yawn

  • @codertb

    @codertb

    Жыл бұрын

    Great vid lol two busy watching lol

  • @aminikamini8394

    @aminikamini8394

    Жыл бұрын

    Awesome video!

  • @daviderigamonti3304

    @daviderigamonti3304

    Жыл бұрын

    Ping you comment bro

  • @daddles.
    @daddles. Жыл бұрын

    Archmeton is so good at answering questions we didn’t know we had

  • @xxjoebamaxx7782

    @xxjoebamaxx7782

    Жыл бұрын

    fr

  • @TylerTMG

    @TylerTMG

    Жыл бұрын

    arch is better then archmeton because it takes months and is higher quality

  • @bernardq
    @bernardq Жыл бұрын

    I love how he said its competitive time and competitived all over the maps

  • @BalloonFN

    @BalloonFN

    Жыл бұрын

    i hate this copy pasta and love it at the same time

  • @SyllyArdwyn
    @SyllyArdwyn Жыл бұрын

    Truly, one of Archmeton's video ever.

  • @Cyclone15

    @Cyclone15

    Жыл бұрын

    Truly, one of Astra Metre's comments ever

  • @lookinfrontofyou

    @lookinfrontofyou

    Жыл бұрын

    @@Cyclone15 Truly, one of KEIKO's reply ever.

  • @arnavprasad3014

    @arnavprasad3014

    Жыл бұрын

    @@lookinfrontofyou Truly, one of lookinfrontofyou's reply to reply ever.

  • @Rick_roll_offl

    @Rick_roll_offl

    Жыл бұрын

    @@arnavprasad3014 Truly, one of Arnav Prasad's reply to reply to reply ever..

  • @khewara

    @khewara

    Жыл бұрын

    @@Rick_roll_offl Truly, one of K.P. Sivasubramani's reply to a reply to a reply to a reply ever...

  • @guzel9823
    @guzel9823 Жыл бұрын

    I personally do enjoy the practical content of this video more than the niche scenarios portrayed in other videos (The FASTEST MOVEMENT in VALORANT). Those are fun every now and then, but overall I prefer stuff that is more practical (like this video)

  • @iforgetmyname8076
    @iforgetmyname8076 Жыл бұрын

    My bro... After "Everyone want to make their product better" And than "except Ubisoft" text apper... That just hit hard 2:16

  • @ansxor
    @ansxor Жыл бұрын

    the thing with a lot of symmetrical maps (especially a KOTH mode) is that the map becomes assymetrical by what areas the dominating team take up, it is entirely equal at the beginning of the game but then it turns into an attacking/defending team scenario. control point lijiang tower, for example, typically has players go up to the defender's spawn choke point in order to hold them there and the map becomes "assymetrical" in that area where both teams have different options on what choices are available

  • @simplysmiley4670

    @simplysmiley4670

    Жыл бұрын

    it's pretty fun to think about the maps that way because then it turns out that symmetrical maps like king of the hill have quite a bit of similiarities to non-symmetrical maps like payload in how the dynamic shifts around

  • @a_gamer106
    @a_gamer106 Жыл бұрын

    As an Overwatch player, the KOTH maps are not symmetrical; some have a bike or a construction lamp on one side

  • @Archmeton

    @Archmeton

    Жыл бұрын

    Those are decorations to break the illusion of a map being symmetrical, the point still stands!

  • @emotionalsupportyt1721

    @emotionalsupportyt1721

    Жыл бұрын

    @@Archmeton i think he was kidding lol

  • @a_gamer106

    @a_gamer106

    Жыл бұрын

    Some of the capture hitboxes aren't symmetrical so one team could touch the point 0.15 seconds faster

  • @toaq4710

    @toaq4710

    Жыл бұрын

    @@a_gamer106 bruh

  • @tiny_mage

    @tiny_mage

    Жыл бұрын

    @@a_gamer106 let me guess, it's always the other teams side

  • @demonicious_
    @demonicious_ Жыл бұрын

    I feel like even though they're the most popular, CS maps are still underrated in how drastically they've affected the competitive fps mapping culture. Most of the vintage CS maps are legendary masterpieces. With dust 2 at the top.

  • @bluewuppo

    @bluewuppo

    Жыл бұрын

    mirage and nuke are some of the most refined and balanced maps ive played, across all games

  • @VERYR4RE

    @VERYR4RE

    Жыл бұрын

    @@bluewuppo nuke is a balanced map?! haha

  • @uniworkhorse
    @uniworkhorse Жыл бұрын

    Loved how you revealed how the context of a game mode completely changes the balance of a map. Super interesting topic, game design is "just" a giant UX problem - testing is needed sooooo much.

  • @junk6700
    @junk6700 Жыл бұрын

    great video as always, glad tf2 is still getting some love out there!

  • @zarovik
    @zarovik Жыл бұрын

    in overwatch king of the hill gamemode, you play at 3 different maps every game to make it less repetitive and i love that because it solves the issue of "symetrical maps are boring"

  • @nojukuramu
    @nojukuramu Жыл бұрын

    I remember making a map on Minecraft to 2v2 with my friends. I didnt knew my ideas are lined up with competitive standard 😂 I called it dynamic map. It uses redstone contraptions and command blocks. At start, the map will be symmetrical like mirrored block by block. But when one side wins, it will reduce some covers giving the losing team an advantage. And the more winstreak a side does, the more covers will be removed. But it wont get to the point that theres no more cover. Instead it will make some areas into ice surfaces, making them to move harder in exposed area. and sometimes it will just completely block the views in high ground making it useless. Then theres a button on enemy side that you can press to undo the changes one by one. There are 4 buttons in there. But, when the other side wins, the map will reset to start (not the round 1 map but the round 2 adjustment) I made that map like 5 years ago and the laptop i used back then is already trashed. And now im learning to create games. maybe i can implement the same thing and see what it can do in FPS game instead of Bows and swords 😂

  • @breakinmadly

    @breakinmadly

    Жыл бұрын

    Super creative that’s awesome

  • @flouride

    @flouride

    Жыл бұрын

    Very interesting to have a map that gets tougher for the winners.

  • @breezeless_7665
    @breezeless_7665 Жыл бұрын

    Tf2 and overwatch only works with symmetrical maps because of the characters being so different from each other, which on itself gives replay abilities even on a map that would theoretically be boring. But even then unsymmetrical maps generally tends to be more popular due to its design and game modes, switching sides are still extremely fun and adapting to it always presents a challenge for us to overcome even if this is the 1000th time playing the same map

  • @wek7369
    @wek7369 Жыл бұрын

    Thanks Archmeton! Really wondered about this one since the past few months, now I can think of advanced strats on every map

  • @tasuu_
    @tasuu_ Жыл бұрын

    Usually videos like this give me questions I didn’t know I had and leave me with more confusion than anything but this is a really good video, hope I can see more from you!

  • @Xelafy_R
    @Xelafy_R Жыл бұрын

    Thank you for improving my mapping skill! I’m currently mapping a map for the shooter Phantom Forces in roblox.

  • @im4j0r
    @im4j0r Жыл бұрын

    That was very fun to watch . Even tho there's a lot of talking , I didn't feel bored at all ! you earned my sub .keep up the good work .

  • @hrinn
    @hrinn Жыл бұрын

    this is such an insightful video from a game developing perspective. good job Arch!

  • @bitcoinzoomer9994
    @bitcoinzoomer9994 Жыл бұрын

    "You would get bored of a map if you play it for long enough" Except Hightower and 2fort

  • @ArkendOfficial
    @ArkendOfficial Жыл бұрын

    Archmeton I would like to thank you for making this video. This will help a lot with my new game

  • @strawberrana
    @strawberrana Жыл бұрын

    I like what Overwatch does with its CtF map Ayutthaya, set in a temple in a Thai jungle. It's symmetrical (rotational symmetry, not mirrored), but each side is still unique, because one side is overgrown and run-down, whereas the other side is preserved and ornate. All the map geometry is identical (or as close as it would reasonably need to be), meaning it's balanced, but each part of the map still feels unique because of the different aesthetics present.

  • @matoas7102
    @matoas7102 Жыл бұрын

    Nukedown from all call of duty: perfect asymetrical Raid from cod bo2: perfect symetrical

  • @dreamofficial9957
    @dreamofficial9957 Жыл бұрын

    2-Fort never gets old 😋😋😋 Keep up the great work, Love your vids.

  • @rokeeh
    @rokeeh Жыл бұрын

    you really opened my eyes here as a game developer, thanks and keep it up!

  • @MurrayFrost
    @MurrayFrost Жыл бұрын

    The legend can put out so many high quality vids. Man! I wish I was this good and fast at it

  • @unfished33
    @unfished33 Жыл бұрын

    I love the type of videos you make great vid mate

  • @benfox4281
    @benfox4281 Жыл бұрын

    another common Archmeton W. Great vid!

  • @helmetbro1685
    @helmetbro1685 Жыл бұрын

    your sound like a nice person, love your videos

  • @justtofu
    @justtofu Жыл бұрын

    great video man keep it up!

  • @Avinomus
    @Avinomus Жыл бұрын

    Great vid archie!1!!

  • @Rodrinator75
    @Rodrinator75 Жыл бұрын

    Great video as always, keeping it interesting every time :D

  • @sevitoburito4417
    @sevitoburito4417 Жыл бұрын

    Your growing so fast your going to get big mark my words

  • @fourgiants6070
    @fourgiants6070 Жыл бұрын

    very interesting video. love the game design topic

  • @benryt
    @benryt Жыл бұрын

    Very nice video :)

  • @thomaszbodula8617
    @thomaszbodula8617 Жыл бұрын

    My favorite youtuber uploaded again 😍

  • @Julesx
    @Julesx Жыл бұрын

    great video!

  • @abu_1238
    @abu_1238 Жыл бұрын

    Definitely your best video

  • @Archmeton

    @Archmeton

    Жыл бұрын

    Thank you! If you like content like this you should check out my other channel, you can find it on my channel page

  • @Ineedmentalsupportrn
    @Ineedmentalsupportrn Жыл бұрын

    This is the most underrated channel I've ever seen

  • @RainbowDark
    @RainbowDark Жыл бұрын

    gg good vid man

  • @JooshandKnut
    @JooshandKnut Жыл бұрын

    Very good video. You should do one like this for weapons in shooter games maybe?

  • @codertb
    @codertb Жыл бұрын

    Nice vid:)

  • @cem8015
    @cem8015 Жыл бұрын

    this is a really good vid

  • @Stelaras03
    @Stelaras03 Жыл бұрын

    I love your videos

  • @SashAFP
    @SashAFP Жыл бұрын

    damn this was sick

  • @asfsvn
    @asfsvn Жыл бұрын

    babe wake up a new archmeton video

  • @balanced5
    @balanced5 Жыл бұрын

    to many compliments, i have to say thank you :)

  • @LightPink
    @LightPink Жыл бұрын

    You should have talked about how player skill level can change the balance

  • @zaggazao
    @zaggazao Жыл бұрын

    wow good upload

  • @xen2653
    @xen2653 Жыл бұрын

    Such a well made video and a underrated channel :)

  • @FiletoFish4
    @FiletoFish4 Жыл бұрын

    I actually forgot about splitgate lol it was so fun I played in beta and alpha xD thanks for reminding me

  • @lanzcordero2132
    @lanzcordero2132 Жыл бұрын

    5:48 that poor bear

  • @jacquesblack3080
    @jacquesblack3080 Жыл бұрын

    good video as always. I wish the CoD devs would understand this. 😂

  • @lucakaiwang3069
    @lucakaiwang3069 Жыл бұрын

    Nice vid, liked the different perspectives on looking at a map. Little comment: In 5:52 symmetrical is spelled wrong, gotchu :) hehe

  • @aicraglednay
    @aicraglednay Жыл бұрын

    Seeing dust II is making me how would that play out in valorant and how could it be balanced to be fair and fun.

  • @aicraglednay

    @aicraglednay

    Жыл бұрын

    Think, slight stroke while typing

  • @MattIsFine

    @MattIsFine

    Жыл бұрын

    @@aicraglednay y'know you could just edit the comment

  • @yapflipthegrunt4687

    @yapflipthegrunt4687

    Жыл бұрын

    do you need a bondulance?

  • @bluewuppo

    @bluewuppo

    Жыл бұрын

    it would be a 100x better than every preexisting valorant map lol i swear its like those maps were made by an ai

  • @joethecaveman
    @joethecaveman Жыл бұрын

    You should do a video on how wall bangs and stuff like that work

  • @soap6264
    @soap6264 Жыл бұрын

    I think the issue with having one op spawn and one not op spawn is that a lot of games don't switch at half score (for example you can get 12 points in the first half of val) this means the op side gets a massive advantage going into the bad side as they don't have to win as much

  • @VskutkuTrigen
    @VskutkuTrigen Жыл бұрын

    Also consider u start on Unbalanced losing side... U will feel down before you get to play the stronger side... state of mind also play a role and U will probably lose because of it even after the change

  • @weirdibibfishiplop3644
    @weirdibibfishiplop3644 Жыл бұрын

    TF2 has the big misbalance things but lesser and changing throughout the map. Upward for example changes which team has the high ground through choke points and check points

  • @varshithk2212
    @varshithk2212 Жыл бұрын

    "What makes a map COMPETITIVE?" = A box

  • @SaberVS7
    @SaberVS7 Жыл бұрын

    >First mappers in the original Quake Doom WADers: "Am I a joke to you?"

  • @seventh-hydra
    @seventh-hydra25 күн бұрын

    Some things that weren't covered about Dust2 and why (CS in general) is very competitive, while CoD, Apex, etc aren't. Which basically boils down to fairness and skill expression with both mechanics and decision making: 1. 3-Lane design: This opens plenty of tactical options for a team. With 5 players each, defenders can't heavily protect every position. You have to make choices, how to divide your team. As an attacker, rushing isn't super viable either. If you put all your chips in one basket with a rush, you risk walking into their strongside. Or, their weakside might be able to hold you off with grenades/heavy covering fire until their team rotates or flanks you. This has skill expression too though, "Can I outfight the enemy before reinforcements arrive/the rush overwhelms me?" And that's related to: 2. Loops, Flow: Despite having 3 lanes, there are multiple pathways to switch between them. This enables _both_ sides to quickly rotate to another objective, but they're spaced out so you can't just immediately overpower a fight. This also enables opportunities for outflanking as both sides, but it's risk/reward once again if you make it too late. Or if the enemy keeps someone behind to camp it. This also leads to skill expression on whether or not you can 'outfight' the guy covering the rear. 3. Reasonable Chokepoints: Players are effectively funneled into certain 'combat areas' which means there's a consistency in where to expect fights and to plan ahead. But because there are a variety of options available, you can't account for _everything_ and have to try to predict your opponent and out-think them. These areas allow for a variety of tactical decisions, and skill expression, without being so 'random' that you ever feel like the enemy just gets lucky. Choices were made. - Why games like CoD/Apex are bad: 1. Wide Open Maps: This just makes it so you have no movement control over players and essentially can be outflanked from anywhere at any time. There are _too_ many options which introduces chaos and randomness. And randomness is the enemy of balance. You want to be able to understand _why_ you won/lost, what you did wrong, what you did right. How to improve. And that it was all _fair_ and not left entirely up to chance. 2. Too Many Angles: There are usually a LOT of buildings which, instead of being used for lane control, can be freely entered. And usually have verticality and lots of windows. While it's important that someone can't cover an _entire_ area with their line of sight, it is important that there aren't _so_ many places to get shot from that you just get killed by chance. Another thing is that maps are super-cluttered instead of having fairly placed cover. So people can be hiding behind a trillion different crates, barrels, vehicles etc. 3. Limited Skill Expression: Because the maps are so wide open, and there are too many lines of sight, you can effectively be killed from anywhere at any time. You can frequently get killed, with zero opportunity to shoot back, because they popped out of 1 of 100 windows/doors/objects, and killed you before you could realize where you even got shot from. You can frequently get killed because some guy happened to take one of a million pathways to you, and you had zero ways to account for this and make intelligent tactical decisions for where to place your teammates, because there's just too many routes.

  • @chair7713
    @chair7713 Жыл бұрын

    What software did you use to create those maps? Also great vid!

  • @niffz

    @niffz

    Жыл бұрын

    prob unreal engine

  • @spacexdemo8254
    @spacexdemo8254 Жыл бұрын

    With some gamemodes, symetrical maps are also unbalanced. Because, if there's a lot of ratty close corner shotgun angles and long corridors for sniping on both sides, it's advantagous for the defenders (in the case of val)

  • @MattIsFine

    @MattIsFine

    Жыл бұрын

    I can't think of a game where the map would be symmetrical and have a strictly attacking and defending side. TF2 has symmetrical maps but it's for the capture modes where both teams are attack.

  • @solarx4166
    @solarx4166 Жыл бұрын

    The ubisoft part got me good

  • @Coolmech808
    @Coolmech808 Жыл бұрын

    Man this guy is smart

  • @kilometers6088
    @kilometers6088 Жыл бұрын

    Entertaining

  • @Knitrokr
    @Knitrokr Жыл бұрын

    Sheesh dude nice video. Dude you're like very smart . Can you make an effective fps boosting video for valorant for low end pc?

  • @hotelvictortango
    @hotelvictortango Жыл бұрын

    I wish developer were more open about level design positions, often times when applying the job is buried between game design and environment art, because it takes a little of both disciplines to truly create something unique. Good Level Design is hard, but Great level design can often take a large amount of trial and error, play-tests and balances to even get close to likable if not lovable.

  • @nelaginkcraft
    @nelaginkcraft Жыл бұрын

    Nice Vid

  • @Sheelzy
    @Sheelzy Жыл бұрын

    “It will get boring if you play it enough” Raze satchels: “Do I not exist?”

  • @malablondi77
    @malablondi77 Жыл бұрын

    4:44 and also amphibious assault on Normandy beach

  • @eclipture
    @eclipture Жыл бұрын

    Can you make a video about Raze super boost jump?

  • @Shadowedits9
    @Shadowedits9 Жыл бұрын

    Hi its me again 😁, remember me, can't wait to watch. P.S noti gang I V

  • @fuckvalo
    @fuckvalo Жыл бұрын

    Wow the map in the thumbnail is already better than fracture

  • @S11ushie
    @S11ushie Жыл бұрын

    a great example of an unbalanced map would have to be junkertown on attack from overwatch. if your tank isnt aggressive enough to push out right as the match starts, youre likely to just be stuck getting spawncamped the whole game

  • @alexgrimm354
    @alexgrimm354 Жыл бұрын

    Splitgate also has both symetrical and unsymetrical maps Also nice video

  • @hypnopyr9084
    @hypnopyr9084 Жыл бұрын

    I think the issue with some ow2 none symmetrical maps are that while the first point may be fairly balanced, point 2 is usually a steamroll for the attackers while point 3 is more favourably weighted depending on the map. Although an upside to this is that in esports (where u could pick ur map if u lost the one prior) it added strategy as some compositions would work better than others on certain maps. 2cp sucked tho cos both points sucked to attack.

  • @lucaskim2126
    @lucaskim2126 Жыл бұрын

    Day 1 of asking Arch to make a battle-royale sized map of valorant with all the maps combined

  • @Archmeton

    @Archmeton

    Жыл бұрын

    good one... damn!

  • @anhaadevoursyou
    @anhaadevoursyou Жыл бұрын

    so which valorant map is best in following - i) competitive ii) attacker friendly iii) defender friendly iv) unlimited fun (you can play endless amount of games in these without getting bored) v) 1v1 with friends lets see who's better vi) trolling (practical question ig) vii) learning game mechanics viii) difficulty xi) easy for high elo hard for elo xii) easy for low elo hard foe high elo xiii) most symmetrical map xiv) least symmetrical map xv) most repetitive /boring map xvi) best for deathmatches xvii) best for shotguns/ar's/snipers xviii) easiest/hardest to master also i just realised i gave ya next video idea thank me later

  • @snorpus
    @snorpus Жыл бұрын

    what program are you using to make your own valorant map? is it just hammer/ue with valorant assets?

  • @watercat1248
    @watercat1248 Жыл бұрын

    I will try to make multiplayer fps game I don't know if this game going to be competitive or not but one thing I know is that I will try to create as fun as can't

  • @oskargrankall4551
    @oskargrankall4551 Жыл бұрын

    even as a man that dissents Valorant i was able to watch and enjoy this video, well done sir.

  • @Archmeton

    @Archmeton

    Жыл бұрын

    I'm glad

  • @oskargrankall4551

    @oskargrankall4551

    Жыл бұрын

    @@Archmeton :)

  • @hi_its_jerry
    @hi_its_jerry Жыл бұрын

    1:00 i feel represented. thank you for speaking up about this struggle, Archmeton.

  • @eclipture
    @eclipture Жыл бұрын

    Why you still only have 40K subscribers? You should have more than 500K subscribers. Most useful valorant yt channel I've ever seen. ❤️

  • @stormcraftcph7423
    @stormcraftcph7423 Жыл бұрын

    nice

  • @sierde
    @sierde Жыл бұрын

    Archmeton

  • @qwertyijk3208
    @qwertyijk3208 Жыл бұрын

    it is because of moral due to each team which starts on attack will likely lose and become disadvantaged in terms of mind set

  • @v12val
    @v12val Жыл бұрын

    Ima be honest, I’ve played splitgate for enough times to realize they have symmetric maps, and have not actually realized that they have symmetric maps. In fact I can’t remember a single map that is symmetric in that game.

  • @abhinavtharalla6487
    @abhinavtharalla6487 Жыл бұрын

    This video is just a formal explanation on why split should come back

  • @DageLV
    @DageLV Жыл бұрын

    you can completely switch the map while still having the same map, by mirroring it. Play dust2 but mirrored, or mirrage. Its completely different map now.

  • @mithrandirbruh
    @mithrandirbruh Жыл бұрын

    hi archmeton :)

  • @snowyjx4560
    @snowyjx4560 Жыл бұрын

    good video

  • @shtwick
    @shtwick Жыл бұрын

    I think it also depends on the game too

  • @blackout1054
    @blackout1054 Жыл бұрын

    New video idea: who is the best agent for a 1v1

  • @DoctorDoody
    @DoctorDoody Жыл бұрын

    would like to see your thoughts on the map data center for the game pavlov. it is a symmetrical map, but it is easily my favorite map where i have probably out in a few hundred hours into

  • @Archmeton

    @Archmeton

    Жыл бұрын

    I think I played it before, I think it's a good map because of verticality on the map, I will make a video about VR gaming in the future!

  • @G00seLord
    @G00seLord Жыл бұрын

    "Most competitive map" *picture of CUBE*

  • @PIVfirestarkproducon
    @PIVfirestarkproducon Жыл бұрын

    Dust II is the gold standard of FPS map design, and for MANY more reasons than listed in the video. If interested in FPS map design I'd highly recommend checking out more videos on Dust II. The map has been played for over 20 years and will likely never retire.

  • @bluewuppo

    @bluewuppo

    Жыл бұрын

    mirage is better ;)

  • @dutssz
    @dutssz Жыл бұрын

    5:35 There are also other reasons for why a heavly sided map is not balenced for Valorant. 1. As the gameplay works, the heavily sided team can win the game even before switching sides if they win every round before the switch. And since is favored towards them the game hardly will flip, thus making it unbalanced 2. Regardless of whether both teams can win, heavily siding the map makes people dislike to play the rounds. The unfavored side will just try to win one round and after they do give up until it's their turn to win the game. This is just wasteful to everyone in the game as the unfavored team spends the entire first half of the game not winning by the design and the favored team spending every round after their first loss losing hope to achieve victory by design.

  • @MrManiacc
    @MrManiacc Жыл бұрын

    2:16 *ahem* and EA

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