Many years ago, while at art college working on photography, we had a discussion about creating images and the audience.. someone said that art was for everyone but in counter, it was suggested that was not true. Part of the process of creating art is also presenting art to be seen. And to be seen, someone has to make the effort to enter the gallery and WANT to see it. Your audience is no longer everyone but rather just a pie slice of humanity that puts in the effort. The web extends our audience but still, your audience are only those that make the effort, show interest and search out the images. In business, understanding and targeting your customer by realizing any product isn’t for everyone but if fact specifically fulfills a need is a major element of profitable success. Products that best give people what they absolutely want, even if they don’t yet know what that is, can be fabulously successful. However, in art, giving people exactly what they want often fails because it misses out on surprise and inventiveness. Good art often needs to challenge the viewer. That illusive element is often what separates great from just good.

@Simonsutak

3 жыл бұрын

Really enjoyed reading your comment. I spent a lot of my career in business researching or commissioning research into what people/consumers wanted...or needed, or how they reacted to products and services. And preached the importance of "stepping into other people's shoes" not just in promotions, product photos, marketing etc. but also sales and negotiations, and when trying to implement change. The big thing that could be missing in this kind of "ask the customer" research is that there can be innovations and creative solutions that people never even conceive they need or want, sometimes even when they are initially shown the product or service. These businesses can be hugely successful. And as you say, great art also surprises and challenges the viewer in unexpected ways. I wish I had thought of this when writing the video!!

@Just-a-bystander

3 жыл бұрын

@@Simonsutak - I spent most of my life living in the creative side being a very hands on inventive person. Generally I found business managers to be missing something when it came to understanding the value of both those that create and the effort it took. Often, the intrinsic value came down to a simple formula of cost versus profit. I few years ago I earned a business degree. Frankly, it pushed me to places I had to change my thinking to understand. One of the key points that made clear sense was exactly as you describe, working to truly understand what the consumer wants and fulfilling that need. The origin of the iPhone is a great example of giving people what they didn’t even know they really wanted. You did touch on that in the video. That element of surprise and/or of being challenged. In business or in art, if you are creative by not staying in the common expected groove, sometimes you are rewarded.

@bozhang2434

3 жыл бұрын

Fantastic discussion! I do believe art is for people. However, it doesn't mean the right audience can access the art piece. Sometimes artists need to believe in themselves just like scientists and also believe there are right people in right time will enjoy and benefit from the art work. All those discussion is a little too heavy for my little joy on photography though :-)

Yes, It's the impact on the viewer that I often miss. Thank you for a great reminder. btw It's my shot at 7:44 "Ben Thanh Tourist Building".

I enjoy your videos Simon, always well thought out and well presented. Although I may not entirely agree on 'impact on others' point (other than normal consideration of humane sensibilities), I tend to feel that the creator should not consider the impact of work on others (unless it's work produced for financial gain, client work or print sales etc.). I've found in my own life that achieving an image I make to satisfy myself exclusively, tends to incidentally please others more readily than if I consider others in the creation process. But then again, I don't share images online these days - though I used to when I was in business, naturally. It's great to hear your thoughts on different topics, keep up the good work 🙂

@Simonsutak

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you. I totally agree with your comments about the creative process; its a highly personal process. Unless, as you write, you are trying to earn a living out of the work, and then it can help to deliberately style/position your work so that it's attractive to others and profitable in specific niches. Or if you like the competitive aspects of trying to win competitions, more faves, more views etc on-line. Indeed, for this video, I deliberately avoided reading what others had written about the subject. I wasn't looking for click-bait; I wanted to get across my own views on the subject, in my own style, and in a way that other people may or may not find interesting. Having looked at the video again after a gap, I wish I'd spent a little more time talking about the creative process of photographers who became famous because of their creative work.

Capturing and framing a moment that cannot be repeated with all the p’s you stated is what makes the image a feast for our eyes!! Our lenses are like an artists paint brushes that we use to paint an image !

Another great video, Simon. You should have a hell of a lot more subscribers. Your content is remarkable

I'm often drawn to photos that are really hard to figure out, that forces you to look twice. It can be a macro, where it's difficult to get a sense of scale, of ice crystals or what ever. Or just a simple phone snap down a multistory Hotel staircase, that revolves around the center of the photo.

Great communication style.

Lately I've been wondering what the point of my photography is. You've made a critically important point that helps to provide me with a new focus and purpose in my work. Thank you for this thoughtful and clearly articulated video.

Another excellent youtube channel which adds to this discussion .. looks at great historic photographers and what makes them good: The photographic Eye .. worth a look

@Simonsutak

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you - I'll take a look.

New to vintage gear. I just scored for $10 an old range finder Branded DED. I can't find anything on the brand. The lense is why I wanted it though. It's an Industar 61. For $10 at St. Vincent's.

Hi Simon, Your question, What makes a great photograph?, has already been answered. It is "the decisive moment" (HCB), the moment when elements of a scene come together and the photographer captures it by anticipating the moment, or by chance (being in the right place at the right time with any kind of camera). I am a big fan and love your work. Cheers

Excellent.

A good photo is one that elicits a visceral response in the viewer. Miroslav Tichy shot on cameras made from junk, with plastic lenses ground from cigarette ash. His photographs were underdeveloped, impermanently fixed, lacked tonal range, were strewn on the floor, and partly devoured by the mice that shared his house. Tichy's subject was controversial, young women photographed candidly in his Czech locality. By conventional standards they defied every metric of what makes a good photograph, yet they are fascinating insight into the photographer's mind and aesthetic objects in their own right. What people lack is not a good camera, but a curator's eye.

Beauty, or Ugly, is in the Eye of the beholder!

@Simonsutak

3 жыл бұрын

Yes! I had this saying in an earlier draft, but it go lost somewhere.

Thanks for bringing up critical points. There are too many images of blurry water waterfalls and over colour enhanced sunsets. Photographers are too concerned with perfecting their technique than an original image. Taking yet another image of a famous landmark seems pointless. I wonder if digital photography is so easy that photographers are not developing a photographers' eye. Few have learnt to see the way a cameras does anymore...

@Simonsutak

3 жыл бұрын

So true! It's become so easy, and also so well drilled/corrected by software. Some mobile phone camera users I know are better at developing a photographer's eye, than some of my digital camera owning friends/family. Because the phone users know they want to share their photos and want try to do something more interesting, with a different point of view etc.

Transfer of felt emotion; from photographer to viewer.

To me, you produce such good videos with very relevant content. This one is another one, because we still think about your thoughts for a long time after watching it and when we press the shutter. Bravo!

@Simonsutak

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

This topic seems to be appearing more frequently by creative professionals. Dan Milner of Blurb has made a similar point in discussing the difference between content and real photography. One is consumed and is discarded, the other stays with you for life.

@Simonsutak

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you. I'll go and take a look at Dan Miller's comments.

Hi. I agree with you that a picture must shout its message to the viewer, otherwise it is worthless. I waited until the end and was surprised not to find any reference to the ingredient which alone is 80% of any picture: light. No light = no picture. Good light = you have an excellent chance of taking a good picture...

Seen from my perspective your videos about photography in general (like this here) are excellent and standing out here on KZread. My absolute favorite is the video about bokeh in photography. Thank you for putting all this dedication into sharing this great work. You motivated me to start this year also a channel about my (plenty) vintage lenses and how to use these in the digital age. When it comes to the question "what makes a great photograph" I agree with your perspective that gear is overrated and the subject of a photo, the composition and the storytelling are too often underrated. What concerns me is that many people are nowadays more digital editors (post-processing artists where the subject is exchangeable) than photographers.

Well, I just skipped over the first 5 aspects and went straight to the one that you said was going to be the secret mystery one. Anyway, I do like that you are focusing on the impact on others rather than a dogmatic, "every photograph must tell a story" BS. There is more than one way to impact others. Telling a story is one way, but simply evoking an emotion is another way even if it doesn't tell a complete story.

@Simonsutak

3 жыл бұрын

Good call! It's promoting me to add time lines in the introduction, so people can get to the part they want to.

I took some time to process your formula and watched this video three times to do it justice. I was moved by this comment: "How could sharing a particular image hurt other people?" I liked the sensitivity you showed here, in addition to a thoughtful treatment on creating images.

@Simonsutak

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you! The use and abuse of images shared on-line was a huge issue with our daughters in the last year at school. Watching the video again after a break, I think I should have given more emphasis on the work that the great photographers produce. After some doubts I'm glad I posted this.

@trinityharbour7054

3 жыл бұрын

@@Simonsutak So sorry to hear that. Images are sometimes too powerful in the wrong hands.

Thank you, it's very interesting 🤝

@Simonsutak

3 жыл бұрын

Glad you liked it!

YES. As you were starting to talk about the Impact photos have on others, what popped into my mind was "story", and then moments later you said the same thing. I recently did a year-long photo-a-day challenge. Some of the photos I produced were just okay, some were technically excellent (if you'll forgive the arrogance of asserting so), but one photo above all the others had the most likes, commentary, and even went on to win an online competition. In terms of time and effort, there are other photos from the project that took more effort and longer for me to take, process, etc. than this one. But because its subject matter coincided with the zeitgeist of the pandemic, resonated with how people were feeling, and told a relatable and amusing story, it rose above the rest as "great". I've pondered a lot about how to achieve this kind of storytelling again as I continue to grow as a photographer. I really enjoy philosophical discussions like this - thanks for posting!

@Simonsutak

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing this. I like the phrase "zeitgeist of the pandemic", and it's something I've personally failed to capture despite trying quite hard, so congratulations. I'd like to see this image, if you could link to it. Particularly poor were my shots of empty London streets at the height of the first lock-down (even with an ambulance in sight). Just not unusual enough; you can see empty streets and even ambulances most summer mornings at 5am or so in normal times.

@christopherbgriffith

3 жыл бұрын

@@Simonsutak Sorry for the delay in my reply. Here's a link to the image I referenced: instagram.com/p/B-uZ-WZHv8U/ And here's Hugh Brownstone's video about the entire project: kzread.info/dash/bejne/kYOFj8aHfqvdmrw.html

Am I alone in thinking that Simon sounds like Alan Rickman? Great voice.

@alexherr6907

3 жыл бұрын

He reminds me of the computer in courage the cowardly dog and I love it

Fine video, Simon. I agree that you correctly found the missing element, which I might add as thought or reflection or narrative or message or mood conveyed by the photo. I think these are at least partly related to photographers seeing others’ photos, especially classics... so one can avoid cliche and become an auteur (as they would say on film studies) (or find one’s style and theme). I do think that older gear and primes - over zooms -- and B&W over color - encourage a different way of engaging with subjects. One thing I liked about Japanese photographers and photo magazines is that many were interested in these deeper things. Photo magazines and videos in the states are more driven by G.A.S. - partly because I think advertisers or sponsors developed a more consumerist drive. It’s always fun to take an old Spotmatic or my ancient EOS 5D and just enjoy and see what is possible with what you have. Friends do that with pinholes or large format. Aloha from Honolulu. 📸

Could discuss this subject for hours. New to this and I'm trying to take an art approach to photography rather than technical and rules .. There are actors and method actors. I like to think there is such a thing as method photography. Historical figures like Alfred Stiglitz and his 'The Terminal' are unique. What's wrong with out of focus? Enjoy your stuff so keep going it's the best by miles. .. I need a geiger counter any recommends?

@Simonsutak

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, I wanted to keep this video down to 10 minutes, but it could have gone on much longer and perhaps I should have spent more time talking about the great photographers by name... The geiger muller counter I use is this one: www.amazon.co.uk/QG-GMC-300E-Plus-Radiation-dosimeter-monitoring/dp/B00IN8TJYY/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=geiger+counter&qid=1618215719&sr=8-5. It's not too expensive and doesn't pick up alpha rays, but it works well for other types. In case you haven't seen one of my video using this here is one: kzread.info/dash/bejne/jJV1sa-Jps-6kbg.html

Sounds somewhat right, but is based on a classic logical error, called "fallacy of the convers". That it is erroneus can be seen by the fact that many great pictures had for a long time no impact on others but much later were considered "good pictures". (Unless you define "a good picture" as "a picture having at some time an impact on others", in wich case it is a tautology). Vivian Maier is just one example.

Proszę włączyć napisy

In a way, this is a very political video. We always treat GAS like it is a individual symptom confined to a hobby, not part of a broader distortion caused by the absurdist consumerist societies we inhabit. In a dizzying amount of ways we are pushed into interfacing with each other and our art through monetizable, exploitable connections (i.e. gear). I imagine it is insanely hard to be successful as a youtuber without focusing on gear reviews for example. Also, I firmly believe another part of your good photo equation has to be "how uniquely itself is a work of art?". What makes art so compelling is that it makes the incredible variety and diversity of the world visceral to us in a way that soothes our cynicism. The job of the artist, photographer or not, is to recognize what makes their subject uniquely itself and demolish everything in the way of that uniqueness punching through to an audience. By definition that makes this factor ungeneralizable beyond a certain point but it is still important to underline since nothing else matters if you do this well.

@Simonsutak

3 жыл бұрын

GAS is an interesting topic in its own right. And I've been planning a video ion this for some time, but as you say, gear reviews or "top 10 lists" (for example, of photographic techniques) are what people tend to look for on KZread. So I'm mixing in the "other stuff" with gear reviews. I agree with your addition to the equation. I should have made "photography as art" more explicit (something I've tried to do in other videos), rather than simply using the analogy of judges saying what they are looking for in painting competitions.

If you take Arnold Newman's image's of Igor Stravinsky and Krupp the images take on a life of their own. A life in the ancient Greek meaning of Newman made me in reference to each image.

@borderlands6606

3 жыл бұрын

Newman's Stravinsky shot was cropped to about half its original size. It transformed a mundane environmental portrait into a memorable composition.

After finding Moises Levy and his photos I have been considering to put all my effort into music.

Interesting that when you pose the question of what makes a great photograph I think almost entirely of the eye and imagination of the photographer. Technical matters, which make up most of your list of ingredients, are of very little consequence to me. In my view the only necessary ingredient is that vision and imagination. All the rest are incidental. I know many technically capable photographers with good equipment who are incapable of taking any photograph that has any creative or emotional impact. I love camera gear as much as the next guy. I love shooting film with beautiful mechanical vintage cameras but I love them for the personal experience of using them. No one who sees the photos should be in any way concerned with the equipment used to make them.

@Simonsutak

Жыл бұрын

Many thanks for your comment. And I agree with you about the the eye and imagination of the photographer, and how some technically capable photographers with good equipment lack creativity and emotional impact. (Emotional impact on others was what I meant by the missing ingredient). I remember before posting the video that I wanted to articulate how the ingredients changed over time, and my narrative probably got lost in the details/producing the video. In the early days of photography, it was all about gear and the challenge of capturing light on some kind of substance(s). Then as gear improved and became available/easy for the mass market after WWII...creativity became more of the key ingredient. And now, in my opinion, the creativity of millions of mobile phone owners is driven by a mix of the gear, computational software and opportunity meets creativity. And yes, only "gear-heads" wonder what equipment was used to take a photo!

@motodiaries8204

Жыл бұрын

@@Simonsutak I really enjoy your videos. Have you done one comparing modern lenses to vintage lenses?

first :)

It's knowing how to use your equipment I can get pictures out of my 6 megapixel Pentax cameras in daylight I cannot tell from my 24 megapixel cameras. Lenses make a difference my Takumar 50mm 1.4 is a sharper lens than my Pentax 50mm 2.0 . The subject makes a difference I feel all my Pentax cameras take great landscape pictures. My Pentax K3-11 with the 55-300 Pentax PLM lens makes photographing wildlife easier than photographing wildlife with my 6 megapixel Pentax * istDL with old Tamron 75-300 screw mount lens as the PLM lens will not autofocus on the older Pentax camera. All this means if you can take good pictures on a older camera with a older lens the newer equipment is easier to use will you get better pictures maybe maybe not.

@Simonsutak

3 жыл бұрын

Did you see Jordan at dpreview posted a video saying using the "crappy" K-01 had made him a better videographer?! I personally still enjoy using that "crappy" camera for it's sensor - not large but love the rendering/colours.

Well constructed argument but I found the dialogue delivered a little too quickly - an extra second between sentences might be beneficial. Have to agree - all about getting a connection between photograph and viewer.

@Simonsutak

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you for this feedback. I was trying to keep the video to 10mins, but that ended up being counter-productive.

What makes a great photo, is the same thing that makes a great work of art or what make a girl very popular: mass appeal!

@roybixby6135

3 жыл бұрын

Blurring hundreds of faces together may make the "perfect Girl" But photography is more about noticing an photographing what others miss...

To me great photographer is not about gear o subject or presentation etc. Best gear with good photographer can produce well made picture but nothing behind it. In our digital era we've lost some kind of soul of the picture... Tons of great photo looks attractive but empty. That's why in my point of view today photographer is more about psychology but not about something else.

Let's flatter the algorithm