Every Calvinist has their own independent unfalsifiable true and actual interpretation and definition of every word of Reformed Theology; *and simultaneously,* every Calvinist has *ANOTHER,* if necessary, different and opposite, independent unfalsifiable true and actual interpretation and definition of every word of Reformed Theology depending on who they are talking to and the situation they are in.

@TheOverlapLifewithTimBarber

12 күн бұрын

Wow. Sad, but true.

@IdolKiller

12 күн бұрын

​@@SugoiEnglish1 Jesus became like us in every respect, sharing in all the things we've in common or He didn't. It's a true dichotomy.

@timkoelln3826

12 күн бұрын

@@SugoiEnglish1 How is he “attacking” Calvinists? Are you a theology that you hold to currently? If you changed your theological beliefs would you cease to be you? It’s quite possible to critique an idea without attacking a person. That being said, as John Q said, many Calvinists are quite duplicitous and inconsistent. It’s not an attack it’s an observation. Repent and attach your identity to Christ and not some tin pot Pope of Geneva long since dead. The only life is in the One who made all life, not dead men and their foolish pet ideas.

@marthabarletta1866

12 күн бұрын

"Their own definitions"?? What do you mean?? All Calvinists agree that "God chooses our choices". ( sarcasm)

@Dizerner

12 күн бұрын

@@IdolKiller Jesus did not experience having a genetic disease, mental deficiency, being morbidly obese, sexually abused or female. Your "Starbucks Fallacy" is itself the fallacy of presuming your own definition of "like us" can be the only right one, when it also is not an exact equal. You've made your coffee order the only possible order, when it's not. Once you a reject a one to one correlation, you've already admitted you don't accept "like us in every respect."

Dunno if anyone else has found that this a common problem, but Calvinists tend to be (at least seemingly) incapable of comprehending that their “proof texts” can be easily understood, in context, as meaning something else besides their own pre-supposed interpretation. And, since their own understanding is perceived as a “divine download” from Regeneration (gnosis), no other interpretation is even entertained as possible. It’s almost every time this happens: I get talking to a Calvinist, they tell me a “proof text,” I easily tell them it actually means “X” in its context, they freak out and say that their view is the only one ever allowed, they then refuse to elaborate and appeal to their regenerative wisdom as higher than mine. It’s mad. Dear Calvinists, Other, context-fitting interpretations besides your own exist for your “proof texts.” Romans 9, Ephesians 1, and John 6 work just fine and dandy without a single Calvinistic consideration. Easily.

@mikelyons2831

12 күн бұрын

There is a spiritual component at work. 👿 thing has always been "Hath God indeed said"... causing doubt with God's word. He did it with Jesus & even trys to manipulate God (read the beginning of Job). So yes, they often can't see/perceive/understand/get the correct context. Cults indoctrinated their followers with 👿 help...& Calvinism is a cult with a different Jesus.

@dr.tobias3821

12 күн бұрын

Indoctrination breeds unwarranted dogmatism. It leaves no room for critical thinking or for abductive reasoning, i.e. inferring the best explanation from a range of possibilities.

@tannerfrancisco8759

11 күн бұрын

What you described is you offending their calvinist religious pride demon and then them openly manifesting. They respond with vitriol and anger to the truth of scripture just as any unbelieving, demonized transgender proabortion activist would when told that abortion is murder and there's only two genders. Learn to trust the Holy Spirit for discernment and when He speaks to you that word of knowledge or wisdom, "that's a demon," then call out the demon and you'll see the person openly manifest. Address the demon, not the person and he'll see that Calvinist absolutely freak out. They'll try to hide their eyes, get behind you, react violently and angrily, or they might literally run out of the room. They get angry that they've been discovered. These demons are so prideful they think they're pulling the wool over your eyes, so you have to address them very bluntly.

Do any of these people know you lived a hard core Calvanist life for a long time, yet you don’t understand! Absolutely a Gnostic religion

@Fireking285

11 күн бұрын

"He was never really a calvinist" Or something like that

It’s a little odd that the majority of the Calvinist we talk to say that our definitions are wrong or we are misunderstanding what they have said. Maybe the problem is not our understanding is but their inconsistency!

@Narikku

12 күн бұрын

This increasingly seems to be the case. You'll notice that, when you ask clarifying questions, Calvinists will tend to speak out of both sides of their mouth. You have free will! You always do according to what you desire! You just can't choose what you desire! You can understand spiritual truths in some sense! But, in order to assent to the fullness of the truth, it cannot be done without the guidance of the Holy Spirit. You can respond to gospel! You just can't ever respond in a way that isn't rejection. Calvinist language is designed to co-opt the standard meaning of everyday language, and present the terrifying conclusions of determinism in a way that "sounds" like the way that everyone else in the world means them. It's all in the word "Compatibilism." Two ontologically opposed truth claims aren't "compatible." You've just changed the meaning of the words of your opponent so that you can say you've won. It is the ultimate deceptive way to speak to someone.

No true Scotsman fallacy should be renamed to no true Calvinist

Discussing with calvinists is one of the most frustrating things. For a group of people who claim that creeds and, confessions and systematic Theology is SO important, no one can agree on anything. If you quote one, someone else will say you're misrepresenting calvinism, that's a strawman, no one belives that, or you don't understand what they mean etc.

@AnniEast

12 күн бұрын

You would think that one of them wouldve figured out how to explain it better by now

It is convenient to accuse someone of not actually understanding, instead of accepting the reality of the statements made and defending or abandoning them. Calvinism is toxic, both mentally and spiritually.

Im up to 1:55:00 at the moment. Its hilarious listen to Chris repeat and affirm exactly what Warren has been saying...

Original sin and total depravity is the biggest sin excusing heresy ever taught and sadly it has infected most of Christendom since Augustine.

@lawrencestanley8989

12 күн бұрын

No, original sin is found in Romans 5:12, and total depravity is found in John 3:19-21. These are very basic Christian concepts that have nothing to do with Augustine.

@EngagingTruthwithDesi

12 күн бұрын

@@lawrencestanley8989 Romans 5 does not teach original sin. You read it into the text. Romans clearly teaches that death, speaking of spiritual death, is a WAGE! It is earned. You worked for it. It’s not an inheritance or a spiritual birth defect. Romans 5:12 tells us WHY death passed to all, and what does it say? It doesn’t say it passed to all because you are born dead. It does not say because ADAM sinned. It clearly says death (again, speaking of spiritual death in context) passed to all BECAUSE ALL SIN! The spiritual law of sin and death is found throughout scripture. The soul that sins shall die. Paul is clear in Romans 7 that he was ALIVE before the law, before he willfully sinned against the knowledge of right and wrong, and he then DIED BECAUSE OF HIS OWN SIN! Your moral depravity is your own doing. John 3:19-21 is speaking of men rejecting the light! This is clearly because of rebellion and their willful choice to love their own sin over truth. It does not say anything about an inability to receive light. It tells us WHY they rejected the light and it was because of their own rebellion. Romans 1 tells us the same thing. There is a general revelation of truth that God has given to all humanity, the reason the wrath of God is revealed from heaven agains unrighteousness of men is because they SUPPRESS THE TRUTH IN UNRIGHTEOUSNESS. It says nothing about inability but that God brought them truth and they rejected, and suppressed that truth in order to sin against it! Your proof texting is also no excuse for your rejection of truth. You are being shown truth here, and I pray you choose to submit your mind to the truth of God’s word, rightly divided, and stop eisegeting.

@tannerfrancisco8759

11 күн бұрын

​@@lawrencestanley8989 Romans 5:12 says that we inherit mortal death from Adam--not that we are born sinful from Adam. If you're right, then Jesus was a sinner or you're denying He actually took on human flesh. And John 3:19-21 completely defeats your entire argument and disproves original sin and total depravity. V 20 & 21 literally imply that those that want to do evil flee from the light and those that want to do good go to the light. That completely negates any concept of total depravity AND irresistible Grace AND determinism. Is your calvinist religious pride demon you think is the Holy Spirit changing the words in the Bible? Because it happens very frequently with the demonically deceived.

@lawrencestanley8989

11 күн бұрын

@@tannerfrancisco8759 Who said anything about John Calvin? Your obsessed with Calvin. The key phrase in verse 12 is ἐφ’ ᾧ πάντες ἥμαρτον; literally, it reads, "for that all sinned." This clause informs us why death passed on to all men - all sinned. Paul is not referring to the present sins of men (cf. Romans 3:23) since in verses 15-19 he refers to the one sin of the one man, Adam as being the cause of the reign of death for all those in Adam (cf. 1 Corinthians 15:22). Furthermore, the phrase “all sinned” is in the past tense, meaning that the sin of all occurred at the same time as Adam’s sin. While it is certainly true that all men presently sin, that is simply not what Paul is referring to here. In Genesis 2:17, Yahweh told Adam (אָדָם: man, mankind) that in the day that he eats from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, he will surely die. *What we see is that all mankind surely die, therefore all mankind ate from the tree.* God does not condemn innocent people, therefore if all men did not eat from the tree, then the universal reign of death would be an unjust judgement from God, however scripture declares that “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23), “death spread to all men, because all sinned” (Romans 5:12), and “in Adam all die” (1 Corinthians 15:22). Regarding Romans 5:12, the word "sinned" translates a Greek aorist tense, indicating that at one point in time all men sinned. This refers to the time that Adam first sinned. All mankind sinned along with Adam, because all mankind were in his loins when Adam sinned (Cf. Hebrews 7:9-10), therefore all mankind are condemned, and through this condemnation, all mankind were appointed sinners (Romans 5:19). Note that corporate solidarity is also seen in passages like Galatians 2:20 where Paul declares “I have been crucified with Christ, and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me.” Here, just as with Adam’s sin, we see the one action by the one individual being representative of a larger group and applied to them, even though the action took place long before the birth of the individuals for whom it is applied. Through Adam’s disobedience, all who are in Adam were appointed sinners, likewise, through the obedience of Jesus, all who are in Christ will be appointed righteous (Cf. Romans 5:18-19). Since the general rule is that everyone is condemned for his own sin, and no one is condemned for the sin of another (Deuteronomy 24:16), how is it that through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men (Cf. Romans 5:18) if all men did not commit the one transgression? All mankind are born having been guilty of committing the one transgression as they all were present in the loins of Adam when he sinned (Cf. Hebrews 7:9-10), therefore all are under condemnation (Cf. Ezekiel 18:20), “God has shut up all in disobedience” (Romans 11:32), and “the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin” (Galatians 3:22).

@lawrencestanley8989

11 күн бұрын

@@tannerfrancisco8759 The conversion of the Apostle Paul on the Damascus road (Acts 9, cf. John 6:44) stands as a lesson to all that God must change the will of man when it comes to salvation, that God’s call (1 Corinthians 1:9) and regeneration MUST precede man’s faith (cf. John 3:3, 5, Philippians 1:29, 2 Peter 1:1, Ephesians 1:3-6, Ezekiel 36:25-27, Jeremiah 31:31-34, Acts 13:48), or else man is perfectly happy to continue hating God and doing his best to avoid Him. After all, “men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed” John 3:19-20, and “everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin;” the Son must make him free (John 8:34). The imputation of Adam's sin to the race (cf. Romans 5:12) has a consequence; because we participated in Adam’s sin since we were in Adam when he sinned, all men are born into a sinful condition that makes them children of wrath by nature, hostile to God, to whom the message of the cross is foolishness to him (1 Corinthians 1:18). If this were not the case, then no man would have need of being “born again.” If man is to believe, he first needs a miracle of regeneration, from which faith follows because in his fallen state, he cannot please God; it is impossible that faith could come before his regeneration (Romans 8:7-8). This is what is being taught in John 3:19-21. Men loved darkness rather than the light for their deeds were evil - all men participated in Adam's sin, and because of this, every thought and intent of man's heart is evil from his youth. He who practices truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been done by God. That last phrase is VERY important, and one that every free willer I have ever met wishes was not in the Bible.

If "our Lord and Savior John Calvin" himself came back from the dead and went on a podcast to give his definition of Calvinism, you would still have Calvinists saying "well, that's not REAL Calvinism, he just doesn't understand Calvinism." Calvinism is absolute cringe 😂

@tannerfrancisco8759

11 күн бұрын

The same demons are still at work in Calvinists today as we're in Calvin and his zealots 500 years ago, so we can argue with the mind and spirit of Calvin everyday.

One of my favorite preachers is a Calvinist. He admitted in an interview (intervention?) with other pastors that his recently adopted views on eschatology undercut the who and what of the Calvinist definition of “predestined,” and by extension all of TULIP. Fifteen years later he’s still a Calvinist, even though all of his other views are very carefully adjusted to be inter-compatible. He’s also changed a lot of his other views on theology and other hot button topics in that time. So it’s not an unwillingness to change. His Calvinism is even seen as a negative in the Eschatology circles where he gets his audience, so it’s not a peer pressure issue either. There’s something about Calvinism that really traps people intellectually/emotionally.

@mikelyons2831

12 күн бұрын

There is a spiritual component as well. 👿 is all about causing doubt with God's word. He did it with Adam & Eve, with Jesus, he even trys to manipulate God in the beginning of Job. 👿 wants them to be & remain Calvinists & continue to be purveyors of this perversion that malines our Heavenly Father.

@piopod9083

12 күн бұрын

Yes, Calvinism zombifies one's brain

@ravissary79

12 күн бұрын

It is a completely self contained vision of reality.

@tannerfrancisco8759

12 күн бұрын

The ideological possession prevalent in Calvinism is due to literal demons-- primarily religious pride demons. So if he has shifted his view significantly but is still professing to be a calvinist then I would speculate that perhaps he got free of some of those demons but is still retaining one of the lesser demons or he has not been able to fully purge the demonic strongholds from his mind. Once you realize that Calvinism is demonic and that the most staunch adherence of it are idolaters and not Christians and do not have the Holy Spirit, but instead have a demon acting as a counterfeit "holy spirit" it makes it much more clear to understand why adherents to it believe and behave the way they do.

@mikelyons2831

12 күн бұрын

@@tannerfrancisco8759 I couldn't agree more. Some perhaps are saved from believing on Jesus at Youth Camp, from Granddad sharing the gospel, reading a gospel tract & calling upon Jesus... however, they can then be led astray by Doctrines of Demons later: Speaking in tongues is THE evidence of one's salvation? Mary answers prayer & the Pope speaks Excathedra/by God's command? After accepting Jesus you must keep the Sabbath & eat Kosher...so it really wasn't finished, Jesus misspoke? Anti-trinitarianism? Baptismal-Regeneration? And one of the worst, because it so malines the nature character of our Heavenly Father wanting to redeem everyone from the sting of death caused by sin... Calvinism.

Chris Harris has never met an objection he thought understood his point. It’s the height of arrogance to assume no one who disagrees with you understands you.

Dang Warren! You make my brain go faster every day! These long videos take me a few days to get through, but are soooo worth it! I often listen through them twice. I think most people, myself included, have not understood Psalm 51 correctly, even though I have never believed Calvinistic ( twisted ) theology. Thank you for my ongoing deeper understanding of our loving God!

Yip!! You got it right. GOD BLESS you.

What did Adam and Eve do when God asked them how they knew they were naked? They admitted the TRUTH - they ate from the Forbidden Tree. So why weren't they totally depraved after the Fall, unable to see or admit truth?

Well, thanks for wasting everyone’s time, Chris. Lol Warren, it was great to see Chris affirm your definition.

~ "Because you don't accept calvinism as true, right and good, that just proves calvinism is true, right and good." Deadpool: "Maximum effort"

It's clear that Chris just likes to hear himself talk. He's obviously not concerned with what he's saying, or not saying, so long as he can hear himself talking.

Typically Im not able to watch a long video, but this was very good. Thanks for a great video.

I pray that situation works out for you

Just got introduced to Shield by Wearethegood. Wow!🔥 Now I’m ready to watch and learn.

Where can i find Chris' video? Im trying to search for it and can't find it anywhere.

Total and Utter are synonyms and another Calvinist equivocation. They don’t mean total depravity, they don’t even mean total inability. They believe in one particular inability.

lol, so its total depravity, but not really, as soon as you literally read their own definiton. classic Calvinism 😂😂

In all honesty and I am not trying to be controversial, but I really can't help but wonder how this is any different than a cult. It's like they cannot step out of their own system; they cannot see that there may be other ways to interpret passages of Scripture. My Bible study leader is a devout Calvinist and when I share different interpretations of Calvinistic proof texts it's like her mind stops working, her eyes glaze over and her defenses go up. Chris did the same thing by rejecting Warren's definition and then preceded to defend that exact definition. It really is amazing to watch and sad at the same time. I have no doubt that Chris wants to be true to God's Word but he is so engrained in his systematic that he can't seem to get out of it long enough to consider he might be wrong. AND if Calvinists are right then God determined it to be so and that certainly paints God in a bad light!

I’ve heard a Calvinist say: If Jesus died to save everyone then there is an “accounting error” if someone is saved for whom Jesus did not die for. Well if we use that same logic, there is an “accounting error” when Calvinist say that God has decreed everything that comes to pass. And when we ask “so he decided to decree sin then?” The response is “oh no he didn’t decree sin, that’s just a mystery we don’t understand”

Where is his original video?

1:50:17 Maybe you said some of the words of the definition of TD in the wrong order.

1:18:00 this is the crux of the plot of Les Miserables... a man TOLD he is bad because he's bad, he's then given grace and love and he's confused at first, and is them changed by that love because he sees its cost... takes this second chance at life and tries to be good. He scceeds a bit but mskes mistakes, people are hurt abd he takes it upon himself to try to make it right while evading legalistic punishment for his past crimes for the rest of his life. The policeman who obsessively persues him has a thoroughly deterministic view of human nature and condemns sinners as if they're another species, guilty by nature, while "law abiders" are good by nature, not because they love and forgive, but because they are a better species who tends to obey and fit in. So stubborn is his belief that when hes finally proven wrong, he's so unable to accept love and forgiveness himself, that unalives himself.

This is what calvinists do..if you describe one of their distasteful tenants they say " you don't understand " they can't own it.

Warren. Do you have a good “non-Calvinistic” alternative to GotQuestions?? Something that has a similar question/Answer format..? Ultimately, if it doesn’t jive with scripture, it must be rejected.

The new song sounded very Franz Ferdinand to me. It's quite good.

@IdolKiller

11 күн бұрын

@@the_guitarcade thanks!

01:02:00 - Jeremiah 17:9 - There is a whole talk on just this verse comparing the LXX SEPTUAGINT and the Masoretic Text - kzread.info/dash/bejne/aHWdla6Mm9HMccY.htmlsi=QMslzFXsuORar_fa

Apart from the goodness of God, we descend into total depravity. Rebellion against God separates us from the only source of good. That's the reason for the flood that destroyed all of mankind except 8 people -- "...the wickedness of man was great in the earth...every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." (Genesis 6:5).

I noticed that the list given by Warren (not sure how he got the list) of components of the human being "intellect, will, body and spirit", which are "so corrupt that they cannot seek God", does not include the "heart". If you go to a searchable Bible cite (like BibleGateway) and search for the word 'heart', you will be presented with a very long list of verses. And if you read that list you will be presented with what amounts to a summary version of the entire Book (it seems to me anyway) with 884 results. No such thing will appear if you type in 'intellect', or 'body' or 'will' or 'spirit'. But, for some mysterious reason 'heart' didn't make that list . . 'Intelect' tops the list, but doesn't appear even once in the Book (KJV version). 'Body' occurs 152 times, but lacks the "summation" quality I find with the 'heart' listings. 'Spirit' (along with variants) occurs quite a bit, 523 times, but again lacks the summary of events quality I see with 'heart' results. Wouldn't it be a good idea to undertake a "deep dive" into what that word means/meant in the language(s) of the Book? I mean, just in case it has some sort of significance in the mind of God, such that He would mention it so often, and often in conjunction with important (and relevant to this discussion about "depravity"), events? (A very small sampling) "And the Lord said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go." "Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger: for ye know the heart of a stranger, seeing ye were strangers in the land of Egypt." "And I, behold, I have given with him Aholiab, the son of Ahisamach, of the tribe of Dan: and in the hearts of all that are wise hearted I have put wisdom, that they may make all that I have commanded thee;" "But if from thence thou shalt seek the Lord thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul." "Then thine heart be lifted up, and thou forget the Lord thy God, which brought thee forth out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage;" "Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked." "And the Lord smelled a sweet savour; and the Lord said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done." "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? I the Lord search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings." `

@pascalpowers

12 күн бұрын

That list was from RC Sproul explaining total depravity. Why heart wasn't included in his list beats me, but I don't think you'll find much disagreement about what the Bible says about the heart.

@johnknight3529

12 күн бұрын

@@pascalpowers - It seemed that's where he got it, but he was talking about the variations of what Calvinists say about such things . . It seems rather strange that 'heart' would not be on such list, especially since getting a new one to begin with, during regeneration, is often stressed. As well as the very high number of times the Book features heart in significant and varied ways. (I happen to be rather sure what is being referred to by the term, but haven't noticed any discussion about that. Strange.)

@pascalpowers

12 күн бұрын

​@@johnknight3529 Lingonier says body, mind, will, spirit. Got Questions says mind, will, emotions, and flesh. Desiring God says the mind, emotions, and so on. CARM says body, soul, spirit, mind, emotions. The MCF says "wholly defiled in all the faculties and parts of soul and body". A couple that I found mention heart, like GBT Seminary. It doesn't seem to me at all that this was somehow done intentionally, it's just that Calvinists don't mention it either, as much as might be assumed.

@johnknight3529

11 күн бұрын

@@pascalpowers - I doubt any of them know what the term 'heart' is referring to., and that's why they don't mention it on such lists.

Important Critique: I've seen Harris and others point out that Leighton, you, myself and others misuse the term "decree" to be a causative thing. Technically he's right. However this is a smokescreen because the decree still prefigures all evil by design and cannot be controverted, in their understanding of this concept anyways. "Providence" is the real issue at play. They claim God uses secondary causes abd free agents to accomplish this Providence, not merely necessity or coercion, and they think this makes evil the fault of the secondary cause/free agent, that God doesn't ever actually cause evil. But meanwhile I've seen Chris, Brenton and other conversational "moderates" actively say that since man is created to be what we are and God caused us to be, that he has this caused everything... but 30 seconds later "no you don't understand, the decree isn't causal". And while i underestand there's logical room in this presentation, hypothetically, for God to cause a man to exist and for evey setting and person they contend with to exist, that this doesn't cause the man... a free moral agent... to go left instead of right.... yet this hypothetical space for human culpability evaporates instantly when you realize they posit the decree or plan is that unregenerate person x WILL sin like A and then burn in hell for it for all eternity. And that man x cannot do otherwise, afterall there are no rogue molecules, much less, moral choices. Interestingly he rederences Millard Erikson saying man is blind to goodness and truth and can't discern it, yet I've heard Chris and others say depravity doesn't nean a lost person doesn't simply not understand and thus can't believe, but they have full intellectual capacity to understand the words of the gospel, but because they hate the good, the one thing they can't believe is the gospel. But this isn't just a refinement of Eriksons position, its a contradiction. How can a lost person who is blind to truth recognize it so as to reliably reject it? These are two different kinds of depravity which actually block the reliable performance of their ability to reject the gospel. If they just sincerely can't recognize it, they could easily believe it the way a child does, since children often trust what they're told without understanding or perceiving it as true of their own merits or powers of perception. But such a scenario wouldnt evince a TOTAL Depravity. But conversely, a model of total depravity that evinces perfectly averting the salvation of the unregenerate by faith, to ensure primordial election and reprobation arent falsified, is one that says all depraved people HATE the good, and this reliably reject the gospel BECAUSE it's good and true. But this couldn't possibly function if they're blind, deaf or simply can't understand truth. How can you reliably hate only the good and true if you can't reliably decifer and discern what is true and good? Theyd need BETTER logical and epistemic faculties that are FLAWLESSLY reliable, in order to unfailingly always recognize the gospel as that perfectly good and true message, because, afterall, calvinists acknowledge the lost CAN believe false religion, even passionately, even if doing so costs them or calls them to discipline, self sacrifice or service. It's disastrously contradictory.

Calvinists have proven beyond all doubt they are incapable of understanding spiritual truth.

@johnknight3529

12 күн бұрын

@@SugoiEnglish1 - Calvinists have proven to me beyond all doubt they are incapable of understanding many spiritual truths. (Better ?)

@alisterrebelo9013

12 күн бұрын

@@SugoiEnglish1 How many meanings existing for the following text? *"I didn't say she stole your money"*

@brendaleehayter8464

12 күн бұрын

@@SugoiEnglish1 Blah blah blah….. more assertions This is a good example of. “ total depravity “ in real time Thank you @SugoiEnglish1 👍

@cunjoz

12 күн бұрын

@@alisterrebelo9013 1 meaning and 7 different emphases

@alisterrebelo9013

12 күн бұрын

@@cunjoz Are you Calvinist/Reformed?

If you are born guilty then God is literally the one creating sin in psalm 139 where it says He knitted me in my mothers womb

The most fundamental truth of Calvinism is that it (when rightly understod) is correct. Any interpretation or understanding of Calvinism that fails to recognize this most fundamental characteristic does not properly understand the heart of Calvinism.

Warren, I noticed you are having to clear your throat alot. This is a sign of having an allergic reaction after eating. If you just ate, then you may be allergic to something you ate. A good naturopathic doctor can test you for allergies. Peace.

@tannerfrancisco8759

11 күн бұрын

Like muscle testing?

@sonnyh9774

17 сағат бұрын

@@tannerfrancisco8759 No, they can test any substance frequency with your body and tell if there is any resistance that would manifest in an allergic reaction. Science is stranger than fiction.

It's basically: "They reject it because it's the truth" - JMac; Calvinists "That's right!" But: "They reject it because it's the truth" - JK; Calvinists "That's not right!"

Warren, you misinterpret his approach. He is not trying to construct a logically coherent argument in favor of total inability. His case is much stronger. He is living it out.

@IdolKiller

11 күн бұрын

@@screwball1010 😆

When you blend philosophy with the Bible you get Calvinism. 🥴

*Soli Deo Gloria?* But... Are you sure you're not giving the glory to yourself? *Calvinist* friend, why did God choose you? You are smart, you know well that it wasn’t a draw. The idea is just… ridiculous. Therefore… there is only one logical option left, right? And your heart knows it very well. God must have seen something special in you. But there is a BIG problem with that “god” of yours: It’s *UNBIBLICAL.* We know that God doesn’t have favorites. He is no respecter of persons. (Romans 2:11). Therefore, it is *impossible* that God chose you because of something in you. You are not worth a cent more than anyone else. The only reason He did, it's because He knew your response to his call. (Romans 8:29). Just like you wouldn't go out to the streets to force a woman to be your wife without her consent, Jesus isn't going to do it. (Free will). "... Many are called, but few *chosen.* " (Matthew 20:16) How terrible is that you don't care distorting God's character just so you can feel “special”, better than others, chosen! Because… let's be reasonable, a “god” who, being able to choose, chose the vast majority of human beings to be destroyed in hell, without any option for salvation, is not loving, merciful, or good*. It’s not the God of the Bible. Therefore, let us be *VERY CAREFUL* ,lest while trying to give glory to God, we are found to be liars. “ *For the heart is wicked and deceitful above all things.* ” (Jeremiah 17:9).

Thanks for fighting the good fight, Warren. I try not to let this stuff get me into tribalistic petty nonsense myself, and stay a cool cucumber as you have... but alas, at times i fail. I found myself lobbing unsubstantiated jabs about James White the other day. I felt they were warranted and more than earmed by his years of inordinately vitriolic character assassinations of other Christian... but throwing out what I FEEL and SEE as earned isn't the same as making a case for why word ordeed x is wrong. And it openned the door for the appearance of evil and a weirdly threatening retort saying i shall receive mockery in kind. Now to be sure, this is a totally unjust, and oddly specific announcement that this other person now believes i deserve to be stalked and harassed with mockery the way i mocked James White... 🤔 one of these things is not like the other. But regardless, when we dig into our baser natures and call out bad behavior without PROVING bad behavior, it invites these kinds of self-righteous retaliations from their cult-followers. Afterall, people who are brainwashed into a cult will defend its leadership with PASSION, believing deeply and truly that all who critique them are sinning. So why feed this delusion by having the tone they expect? I'm not saying you are, I'm preaching to myself. We must not get into ego-validating power struggles; we must not FEED the self righteous fantasies of these accidental agents of division.

God didn't just decree that i would sin in some generic way. He decreed each specific sin precisely as it occurs

@tannerfrancisco8759

11 күн бұрын

So then are you your own god or is the devil your god?

@HoytRoberson

11 күн бұрын

@@tannerfrancisco8759 What are you talking about?

Calvinism is unbiblical and illogical.

It's called blasphemy

Augustin literally strawman everything Pelagius taught, so we can't expect anything else from augustinian calvinists.

Can you be a Christian and vote for Joe Biden?

@tannerfrancisco8759

11 күн бұрын

Sure, Christians sin and disobey God all the time. This is literally a discussion about total depravity--Calvinists (supposedly Christians but not really) denying accountability for their own actions and denying having the capacity to know right from wrong while also denying the possibility that they themselves are wrong about anything at all. So a Christian can choose to believe the lies of the media and can choose to vote for someone they know will do horrible evil things. Even as Holy Spirit-filled Christians, God does not make us automatons.

@Pablo9989-lj7pm

4 күн бұрын

Well, yes, but…. I’m not a huge fan of “ Trump the man”, although I do think he has changed in the last 20 years. I did not vote for him in 2016 ( or Hillary, who is evil ). I voted for him in 2020, because I knew/& know, that Biden is a weasel. If you look at who he ( and his administration ) who he is, I don’t think that voting for Biden, is a good choice. Is it a sin..? Maybe. Look at all of the evil that has flourished in the last 3 1/2 years, encouraged by Biden and company. Sadly, It seems obvious that Biden is also suffering with some sort of dementia. I find no pleasure in that, as my Father went down a long Alzheimer’s road. It is 100% clear to me, that Trumps policies, on just about everything, are far superior for our country. Can a person be a Christian, and vote for Biden…? I think Yes, but I do not think it is something that honors our God! Too many people vote with their feelings or emotions ( IE: I don’t like that guy! ). We all need to vote with our brains. Who is the best candidate, for our country! I hope this helps. Blessings.

Total depravity - John 3:19-21.

@jeffreymagedanz8130

11 күн бұрын

I think you made a typo by including verse 21.

@lawrencestanley8989

11 күн бұрын

@@jeffreymagedanz8130 Nope.

This was embarrassing...

Perhaps the main reason why men hate the doctrine of total depravity is that it makes man dependent on God's grace for their salvation. The effect of the fall was to create an insurmountable enmity towards God in the heart of man. The problem is not with perception but what makes you interpret what you perceive in a manner hostile or indifferent to belief. imho.

@Fireking285

12 күн бұрын

Hard pass. Rejecting Total Depravity has made me realize more than ever that I'm a sinner who's actually responsible for my sins and in desperate need of God's grace and mercy. Calvinist OS, TD, and determinism makes all of it God's fault and God fixing what he himself did.

@Timdawgj

12 күн бұрын

I can't speak for many men, but the reason I reject TD (other than not seeing it in the Bible) is that when you take into account the rest of reformed theology, it has God rejecting people before they were ever born, never giving them a chance to turn to him, these men are supposedly born with no hope, with a God who rejected them before the foundation of the world. Even if this is "what they deserve" our guilt doesnt nullify the faithfulness of God. ‭2 Timothy 2:13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself.

@finnthewise

12 күн бұрын

You're totally dependent on God's grace on either model. The rejection of total depravity doesn't necessitate the rejection of God's grace.

@tannerfrancisco8759

11 күн бұрын

A denial of Total Depravity is not a denial of depravity. Your suggestion is often used as a straw man argument by Calvinists because they claim that's what people would believe but real Christian who deny the doctrine of Total Depravity do no such thing. The world/unbelievers who refused to humble themselves and acknowledge God's call obviously do that, but the fact that Calvinist think that Christians who deny TD do that shows they in fact don't understand what it's like to be a real Christian--their just a nominal Christian who doesn't know God's grace.

If you deny that children of men are born spiritually void/dead.... then you are taking the position that children of men are born regenerate. If that were the case none are born children of men, but all are born children of God. If all are born children of God , then you hold the position of universal salvation and no one goes to hell.

@Fireking285

12 күн бұрын

False dichotomy

@AnniEast

12 күн бұрын

The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man,[c] 25 nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all mankind life and breath and everything. 26 And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place, 27 that they should seek God, and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us, 28 for “‘In him we live and move and have our being’;[d] as even some of your own poets have said, “‘For we are indeed his offspring.’[e] 29 Being then God's offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man. 30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, 31 because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.”

@tannerfrancisco8759

11 күн бұрын

Literally everything you just said is wrong and not just wrong but stupid and completely unscriptural and ungodly. Children aren't born regenerate because they don't have sin they need to regenerate from--they haven't fallen yet. The Bible says we are literally born spiritually alive and die spiritually when we willfully sin. And the Bible says we are returned to innocence, reconciled to how we used to be, made as we were when children, born again, brought back into right relationship with God, etc. about 1000 times. ‭Romans 7:9-11 I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died. The very commandment that promised life proved to be death to me. For sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. Seriously, dude--get saved. Believe on the Lord Jesus instead of whatever demonized false converts you've been trusting.

@fionamillar6842

8 күн бұрын

??🤪

Week seriously, what did you expect. This is standard Calvinist fare. Hey all riled up and then just confirm everything the non Calvinists says. Moving the goal posts - running propaganda interference - is standard too. No one argues that you save yourself - Pelagius didn't say that. No one argues you have ontological merit to stand before God and demand he save you - Pelagius didn't argue that. No one argues - not even Pelagius - that you didn't need a savior. They don't actually have an argument and this waste of time is no different. I think they just like to hear themselves talk.

Creeds can be twisted just like the bible can be twisted. They are not rigorous to the point that they cannot be misinterpreted like IK does.

@Narikku

11 күн бұрын

@@paulanchor867 It appears that Total Depravity applies to man-made things like Creeds and Confessions, too. ):

@paulanchor867

11 күн бұрын

@@Narikku Could be -:)