Should we be more optimistic about post-industrial Western societies? Leave your thoughts in the comments. To watch the full debate, head to iai.tv/video/the-tears-of-the-west?KZread&

@seanhewitt603

Ай бұрын

I get unreasonably frustrated when I watch discussions like this, knowing people for what they are, and listening to apologists try to justify not acting against the ultra wealthy, just to avoid rocking the boat, I say tip it over !, start fresh, because, at this rate, chaos is an empty belly away.

The answer depends on one's socioeconomic status. Progress to most of us isn't the growth of corporations; it's their greed that controls society. Telling us 'good news' will only underwrite the lie and exacerbate the fundamental problem.

With due respect, and acknowledging that mindset plays a role, there's a distinct difference between being in a position of relative comfort, at some remove, and commenting on the socioeconomic reality, and living it. It is that bad, only the further removed you are from the impact point (i.e. the more money you have) the more abstract it is.

I've heard some convincing arguments that one of the largest problems of modern Western economies is how ownership is distributed. Certain European countries have their own economic problems -- the lack of per-capita GDP growth in the UK and France, for example, are obviously concerning. That said, in the US, we've seen steady per-capita GDP growth yet the economic prospects of many Americans haven't improved at nearly the same rate at per-capita GDP. Regarding how ownership is distributed, just 18-20% of workers have access to some form of employee ownership, and this is at a time when the percentage of businesses owned by private equity has dramatically increased while the number of publicly-traded companies has plummeted relative to population & economic growth. And to be clear, employee ownership doesn't have to mean that employees have control of a company -- ownership can range from full control (i.e. a workers' cooperative) to a seat at the table (much like what is common in Germany, albeit without ownership) to no meaningful control (what we often see in mature tech companies). When employees have some form of ownership, an event like an acquisition by a private equity firm can generate significant capital gains even for lower-level employees. The wealthiest 10% of Americans own approximately 90% of company shares -- why don't we implement policies to help balance this out a bit more, particularly if we're going to keep capital gains in such a tax-advantaged status? Market economies work exceptionally well for creating wealth. Now we just need to figure out how to distribute that wealth creation more equally in a way that doesn't dampen economic growth, and I suspect encouraging employee ownership across the wealth & income spectrum is one of the best ways to do this. I'd also say market economies don't function properly if pricing isn't as accurate as possible, and on this topic, what Arlie Hochschild brought up about plastic pollution is one area of the economy grossly underpriced. Carbon emissions aren't priced accurately, lots of destructive land use activities aren't priced accurately (i.e. cattle ranching), plastics aren't priced accurately (they prices would be substantially higher if the costs of their pollution had to be involved), on and on.

This video made me feel good. I have come to hate money. I take one shower a week and a I have a bag that I take to the store in order to place all my items into. And this all came about after I gave up sex. What a horrible vice.

Celebrate our success in rightly identifying injustice AND setting it aright! ALL MILLENNIALS GET OURSELVES A LARGER PAIR OF ' INTESTINAL FORTITUDES ! '

I love the ending “NO”

@UniversalSovereignCitizen

Ай бұрын

I truly love you!

@UniversalSovereignCitizen

Ай бұрын

👍💜

Progress is just whatever the observer thinks is moving in the direction they like. Another may view it as a degradation, or as a costly alternative, or as premature.

@UniversalSovereignCitizen

Ай бұрын

Interesting comment. It reminds me of a dog chasing it's tail.

@UniversalSovereignCitizen

Ай бұрын

Most people are smart enough to see when something is not good for... 'society on the whole.' By paying close attention, I believe this is the crux of the video here.

@thstroyur

Ай бұрын

You just described the problem with relativism

Things only get worse as time goes on, and at some point it is not hard to imagine neolithic hunter-gatherers had a better quality of life. And in exchange for exactly nothing, we are presented with a planet dying in the name of ‘progress’. Tears suggest tragedy, but we’re much closer to comedy.

There hasn't been anything that has got cheaper since the 90's. The only improvement in life has been new toys.

@MrPhesodge

Ай бұрын

That's not fair, the capitalist incentive is supposed to drive research, and our progress on certain fields (medicine, space) has been the healthiest its been in a long time this past couple of decades. I agree it's critical we need to watch out and legislate when the capitalist incentive falls short of what society needs, but claiming things like 'there's been no progress' just weakens the argument.

Kind of a silly title "Tears of the West"? lol

@thstroyur

Ай бұрын

Tears of the Woke

@GermanBionic 🤝 @Amazon