7:30 "you'll probably miss it on your first run of the level" I have played that game probably over 60 times in the last 30 years and I am just now learning about this short cut.

@TheMGMfan

4 жыл бұрын

I discovered another way to skip that section a while back: the section right before it has a speed booster which as the name suggests, gives you a boost of speed, and has the same row of slopes as was at the start of Chemical Plant act 1, which is vital because not only does jumping off a slope let you jump higher, but so does building up a large amount of momentum (i.e. going fast), so if you keep that momentum, which you will, you can jump up the slope and skip that section; it's a bit easier to fail it, but it seems to be faster than the actual shortcut.

@Terrkas0

3 жыл бұрын

Me too.

@statz3697

3 жыл бұрын

Same

@XanCrews

Жыл бұрын

It would literally be impossible for me to count how many times. Sonic 2 was my only game for several years growing up and I couldn’t make it past casino night zone until about 4th grade or so, which was like 1998-1999. I played that level… a. lot. I have literally never seen that shortcut before this video.

I wrote: "You are the fastest thing alive, but watch your step."

@jamic6107

3 жыл бұрын

Best Sonic description ever.

@TerraKnyte_64

2 жыл бұрын

That… is PERFECT!

"(Sonic 3) has a pretty noticable drop in music quality," Excuse me?

@hybridvigga

6 жыл бұрын

It so does though... Outside of Sonic 3D Blast and the game gear only titles, it is the worst non-CD chiptune one, but that's the least good one out of a truly awesome collection. Its not streets of rage 3 bad, its not bad at all, but its the least awesome by a distance.

@LazarLime

6 жыл бұрын

Um no. Sonic 1 has green hill and sonic 2 has chemical plant and the rest of the music is completely forgettable. Honestly except those 2 zones they don't really have anything going for them at all. Then you look at Sonic 3 & Knuckles with flying battery, hydrocity, ice cap, hidden palace, there all awesome and on top of that they got a remix for act 2. Sonic 3 has the best music by far and basically you are factually wrong and stupid so take that eiidiot.

@spudsbuchlaw

6 жыл бұрын

Lucy I could sing Green Hill, Marble, Spring Yard, Labyrinth, Star Light and Scrap Brain off the top of my head As for Sonic 2, Chemical Plant, Aquatic Ruin, Casino Night, Mystic Cave, Oil Ocean, Metropolis, Sky Chase, Robotniks theme etc. Don't even try to tell me Mystic Cave or Casino Night isn't memoravle

@shitocodone8940

6 жыл бұрын

Spuds Larsson I would say it has good music but I like 2 music more sonic 3 isn’t bad just not as good as 2

@alexanderstilianov

5 жыл бұрын

It's not bad but it's definitely no Sonic 2. And he isn't talking about Sonic & Knuckles' music quality which really picked up the pace.

for what it's worth, i SERIOUSLY prefer black bars for letter boxing - the blurred mirroring of the edges of the screen are super distracting.

@GANONdork123

5 жыл бұрын

They'd be fine if they were say, a bit darker than the footage they are placed behind, as well as a stronger blur.

@TwoWholeWorms

5 жыл бұрын

I think it just needs a much, much stronger blur, tbh.

@yusuf_kizilkaya

5 жыл бұрын

i didn't even notice them until you pointed it out

@confusingdalek709

4 жыл бұрын

I also really dislike how they're slightly desynced from the rest, too

@codyfabulousyt4920

4 жыл бұрын

me too

"Blue, yeah, fast! Fight eggman and doesn't afraid of anything." Clearly I came up with the best 10 word description.

@cerebrustusbordungolski7183

4 жыл бұрын

"Pinball with a small, ball shaped mammal"

@urmomisurdad5422

4 жыл бұрын

too busy to come up with a clever username no, it’s a *REALLY* old meme

@John-X

4 жыл бұрын

Mine was "Sonic doesn't give a fuck and does whatever he wants."

@helios1_

3 жыл бұрын

“doesn’t afraid of anything” Clearly a young prodigy.

@FrizellaTheBee

3 жыл бұрын

Mine was "Blue, cool hedgehog that is being abused for the internet"

When Sonic Unleashed came out I was in a strange situation where my then girlfriend loved the Werehog levels, but didn't like the Sonic levels and I was the opposite. We really enjoyed the game since we only had to play the levels we liked, but I could never imagine going through the whole thing myself.

Interesting. I've kinda been burnt out on Sonic analyses these days, because most videos like this tend to run in circles or talk about stuff that's already been covered repeatedly, but I was engrossed in what you had to say. I especially liked how you mentioned Yuji Naka's "play to perfection" ideology, because it spelled out a lot of stuff that other analysis videos I've seen have overlooked. It added an interesting new dimension to your argument. Great work. I'll check out your other videos too.

@AtomicTridium

6 жыл бұрын

Ttytyyy4o

@davecross4493

6 жыл бұрын

I've noticed this. I feel like people have watched and copied Sonic analysis videos ever since Somecallmejohnny got popular.

@Scroteydada

6 жыл бұрын

How is he saying anything new?

@MilesTraveler

5 жыл бұрын

And then proceeds to ignore that and complain about that being the basis of the games.

@DodgeThatAttack

5 жыл бұрын

90% of sonic reviews just say "sonic isn't actually about speed. It's a momentum platformer and I want it to be good please"

"Sonic 3 dropped in music quality" ... Say sike, right now

On the bit where "you have to slow down" in Launch Base Zone, you could have used the lightning shield to double-jump over the whole thing. As a veteran player of Sonic 3 & Knuckles I imagined it in my mind's eye instantly on seeing that part. You could also do it without needing the shield using the default spin attack; jump through the first laser, break the spiky dude with the spin attack, and just continue on without stopping.

@Pennyguy3

6 жыл бұрын

I thought the same thing. In addition to shield special abilities that kept momentum, Sonic 3 had the 'insta-shield'. It's a brief shield that could save you from spikes and spike encircled enemies and energy attacks when you're airborne. The insta-shield would save me all the time, everywhere. It took several playthroughs to master it, but I think that's the point. Once I mastered the insta-shield, I didn't need the other shields, unless a level theme meant I needed the protection they provided.

@alexanderstilianov

5 жыл бұрын

Fellow S3&K veteran here. I thought the exact same thing but forgot to comment since I wanted to see what else he does wrong in the Genesis games.

@chowdown

5 жыл бұрын

Not only that, he also had enough time to either simply bust through them all without waiting, or jump past them all.

@MilesTraveler

5 жыл бұрын

Most of his arguments boil down to. "I am not good at the classics and these two new games are easy." I posted an entire breakdown of why I didn't like this video in the comments.

The great thing the Chao garden provided was some progression that wasn't tied to skill so it gave some sense of progression even for more casual players who didn't care about improving their score it was also a great side activity providing some variety preventing things from getting dull or repetitive as quickly And I personally found it pretty fun and nice (though I am not someone who can really comment much on Sonic games as I have only played Sonic Adventure 2 Battle)

@natanoj16

2 жыл бұрын

I loved the Chao Garden even if kid me never understood how to improve the Chao

I must respectfully disagree with you about SA2 rails being automatics. There's a mechanic where you hold the action button to speed up but if you don't lean into a sharp corner you fall off, creating the improvable areas that are key to sonics design. However I will admit most players don't know how it works as the game never explains it. even I don't fully understand it myself. With this newfound insight into the rail mechanics, I'd like to take another look into final rush, sonics final level. while it is absolutely flooded with rails when you know how to go faster on them it becomes a non-linear level with design akin to the old Genesis levels with numerous alternate routes and shortcuts.

@tylerrooney543

3 жыл бұрын

thankkk youu sa2 is the best sonic game of all time

@CrownRock1

3 жыл бұрын

Agreed. Final Rush is actually one of my favorite levels, and taking the grind mechanics out of later games was a huge mistake IMO.

@raidoukuzonoha883

3 жыл бұрын

And he called shadow edgy when if you played the game he isn’t

@raidoukuzonoha883

3 жыл бұрын

Also 90% shitty god of war clone for unleashed.... he can go fuck himself... there not even that bad

@elibonham4388

2 жыл бұрын

It's really intuitive! I wish this version of rail grinding would come back it was so much fun

Adam: "Before I talk about the next game, a small intermission..." Me: "Damn it, not another sponsorship for Raid Shadow Legends or Squarespace..." "Because I want to talk about Rings." Me: "p h e w"

@guywithknife

4 жыл бұрын

or how you neeeed a VPN because apparently HTTPS doesn’t exist and your ISP will steal your credit card information

@astralm8072

3 жыл бұрын

I was hoping it would be Sonic and the Secret Rings lmao

@raidoukuzonoha883

3 жыл бұрын

Fuck this guy calling shadow emo did he play the game shadow isn’t edgy

@sandraswan9008

3 жыл бұрын

@@raidoukuzonoha883 ?

@raidoukuzonoha883

3 жыл бұрын

@@sandraswan9008 he called shadow edgy when he isn’t at all in adventure 2 heroes

Description of Sonic as a character: Sonic is an ecoterrorist/rebel with super speed. Description of Sonic games' mechanics: Gather items, and keep momentum while dodging obstacles.

@TheReZisTLust

6 жыл бұрын

Khrene Cleaver saving animals used to be his thing.

@eliasklein2580

5 жыл бұрын

Or running into obstacles because you are too fast to react to them

@haruhirogrimgar6047

5 жыл бұрын

@@TheReZisTLust Technically an ecoterrorist is anyone that interrupts a businesses profits for the sake of the environment. Labeled as the #1 threat to the U.S. by homeland security. You heard that right, for freeing those animals that were running the robots that Eggman was profiting from Sonic was legally a terrorist that could be sent to a federal prison. Ecoterrorist doesn't mean what people think. Ecoterrorism is activism for the environment but punishable by law. Handing out a pamphlet and asking people not to use shampoo tested on baby monkeys that were beaten is a federal offense.

@PepperMcLime

4 жыл бұрын

Haruhiro Grimgar based on this description, Sonic is not an ecoterrorist, though. Eggman’s robots are more a military force than they are workers. He’s not running a business, he’s trying to conquer the world. Sonic would count more as local militia or resistance than an ecoterrorist.

Truthfully sonic heroes would have been a decently comparison to being a decent upgrade to sa2 with some of the issues with puzzle design

@youtuberobbedmeofmyname

5 жыл бұрын

oml the stupid forest level for team dark is sooo finicky and broken

@xthatghomiex2939

5 жыл бұрын

Sonic heroes is a much worse game. It's not remotely an upgrade. Even moving slowly one tap to the left and you'll be sent careening off into the perpetual bottomless pit that incessantly kills you because the game controls like a ball bearing on ice.

@Trone2

4 жыл бұрын

I actually agree with you. I think it is an upgrade but not by alot. It still has moments that are... well mainly the bonus stages are a big problem and trying to land/switch onto rails are also a problem. And then there's control on a bingo slot machine in Casino Park... But other than that. Sonic Heroes is actually really fun. For anyone who hasn't played it, i'ld say give it a go; but if it's not your type then don't play it.

@nicoallens345

4 жыл бұрын

I think it's a decent game, but because of the character swap gimmick, you can't really compare it to the adventure games, even though is a continuation of the story.

@Ten_Thousand_Locusts

3 жыл бұрын

Sonic Heroes is the best and only good Sonic game. Change my mind.

"noticeable drop in music quality" Oi m8, are ye pickin' a fight? Very good analysis though.

No matter how hard I try I just can't understand why people are so critical of any gameplay that isn't *sonic* Personally, I'd *love* so see a "modern" version of the other gameplay types from the adventure games, in addition to Sonic's boost gameplay (Yes, I enjoy boost gameplay) Give me a modern Tails level that puts a focus on his technical expertise and gadgetry Give me a modern Knuckles level with larger, more open spaces to search, more things to search *for*, and a touch of beat-em-up gameplay sprinkled on for good measure.

@greyrifterrellik5837

6 жыл бұрын

Actually a psuedo-collectathon version of the old knuckles gameplay would be interesting, imo

@SquidwardProfilePic

6 жыл бұрын

The alternate play styles of the old games weren't good, but that doesn't mean they can't be. If they fix some stuff and make them less boring they could be pretty cool

@alexanderstilianov

5 жыл бұрын

For me at least, it's because the other characters either don't offer much to stand out (notable exception being Genesis Tails and Knuckles of course) or being too different from Sonic's gameplay and as a result, not being well designed i.e. a first person shooter where they spent a lot of time on the gunplay but much less on the melee weapon(s). Not to mention there are very few charaters other than Sonic that are geniunely cool without trying too hard and coming off as edgy (Shadow) or out of place.

@billvolk4236

5 жыл бұрын

Most of the 3D Sonic games did that, including the infamous Sonic '06 and Sonic Boom.

@timberwolfbrother

5 жыл бұрын

I think if they're going to use different characters in a Sonic game, they should first design the level for Sonic, then add parts for the other characters in one important chunk of the game. That way when you're playing as a fast character like Sonic or Shadow, you can just blast through a nice lengthy 2D-esque level that you can break from into 3D if you want to find secrets, but have 3D gameplay made around a small section as the non-fast characters like Knuckles with climbing and maybe punching through cracked walls, Rouge with stealthing around guards, Amy with being a ground-based bruiser with her hammer taking the direct approach, Tails with flying and puzzles given he's a thinker more than a runner, etc. Let the characters and their pieces of levels stand out on their own for their own unique personalities.

"Blue mouse goes fast in various places" I've never played a sonic game. All i know is that Egg-dude blew up the moon in an anime at some point. Why am I here?

@hendix2200

4 жыл бұрын

This happens is a Canon game (sa2). (Sorry my bad english)

@andrewenderfrost8161

4 жыл бұрын

Door monster: blue speed mouse

@sonictimm

4 жыл бұрын

It also happened in the Sonic X anime, there was a "Project Shadow" story arc in which they used SA2's story. @@hendix2200 As a long-time fan, I refuse to quantify games as canon / non-canon. The franchise has occasional connections between games, but for the most part they are as standalone as three stooges/mickey mouse shorts.

@doveseelight

4 жыл бұрын

Hey, if you wanna laugh and dont know anything about sonic go check out sa2 fan dub by snapcube, its fantastic ;)

@ahmadkazan7994

3 жыл бұрын

@@sonictimm uhh,no.Sonic 1 till shadow the hedgehog including rush,and advance/battle amd chronjcles can be sumarized in 4 arcs. Classic ark.G.U.N can't reach sonic's island so eggman hide in it to start a utopia but stopped by sonic. Adventure-The ark that introduces G.U.N,choas and the ark along with eggman's family and other aspects. Black arms ark:creators of shadow come back after 50 years of shadows creation for the choas emeralds and are atopped. Gizoids ark:introduction to the tribe that rivaled the echidna tribe and were their enemies. Gram past these I think are supposed to replicate sonic's personality as "everyday is an adventure" mentality.

"There are no good water levels" Uhm, Hydro City and Aquarium Park would like a word with you, also if you're afraid to check out Sonic Heroes cause of the water platforming in Generations, I'll have you know there are no underwater segments in Heroes, in fact Heroes ia the first of a series of Sonic games where water was just another bottomless pit (the whole set is Heroes, Shadow, 06 and Unleashed) and speaking of Unleashed, I actually like the Werehog, I agree it doesn't belong in a Sonic game but I like it

@Mike14264

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah Hydrocity is quite fun! In fact, water is very prevalent in the whole game, and I never saw it as terrible. I don't think I ever drowned in S3&K, except when I was younger.

@CrownRock1

3 жыл бұрын

SA2 used water as a bottomless pit for the racing and shooting levels. I also agree that the night levels weren't as bad as everyone says. The platforming was good, except for those stupid balance beams. The combat was a bit tedious, but not the worst I've ever played.

@Cerebrum123

3 жыл бұрын

I tend to like water levels, but then again I liked the Water Temple in Legend of Zelda OoT and TP.

@ericsmith1783

3 жыл бұрын

Tidal Tempest

@bigmonkey1254

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, Aquarium Park was actually quite fun at times given that Sonic could actually *swim* and that the Yellow Drill ability gave you a means of traveling fast down there.

My initial 10 words or less description: "a blue hedgehog runs really fast with good music"

So, the adventure games are more automated than the boost ones? What? And as many people also point out, final rush is one of the best stages in SA2 as it allows for alternate routes, rewards mastery of the level, does not abuse automation/setpieces and taking control away from the player and the rail grinding the level is mainly based upon feels great as it is heavily momentum-based and allows for very cool chains that keep the flow going if you now what you're doing. I couldn't agree more with you regarding to lost world, although I would like to see parkour mechanics trying to be better implemented again into a sonic game, bur more akin to the kind of movement shown in the intro of sonic cd

@raidoukuzonoha883

3 жыл бұрын

Then again he called shadow edgy did you expect much from him

I've never played a sonic game. I'm honestly not interested. I, generally speaking, don't like platformers. If the fact that I sat through a nearly 50 minute video about a topic I'm relatively uninterested in without realising how long it was isn't a testament to your skill as a writer, I don't know what is. Very well done!

@michaelmuller1658

6 жыл бұрын

Irony is a weapon nah he isnt

@SianaGearz

6 жыл бұрын

I've always seen Sonic as a mixed genre between racing games and platforming games though. Alternate paths, shortcuts, momentum and physics based controls, they're really racing game traits, if you were to think of something like early Need for Speed entries. Now sure most Sonic games squander a lot of that design potential, so there's that.

@IkeOkerekeNews

6 жыл бұрын

Siana Gearz Yes he is.

@IkeOkerekeNews

6 жыл бұрын

Siana Gearz "Most" is a overstatement.

@VivaLaOx

6 жыл бұрын

Sonic is definitely a platformer but a unique one

I strongly disagree specifically with your assessment of final rush in SA2. IMO, it is one of the most classic-seeming levels in 3-d sonic, because of the mastery it allows. if you are good at the mechanics it uses, you can completely blow the level apart and turn it into basically a giant jungle gym in space. It has far better replayability than other levels, and lots of alternate routes that feel rewarding.

@involuntaryascetic3602

5 жыл бұрын

if you look at his gameplay, i don't think he realises he can do the fast thing on rails in SA2

@jenniferguajardo1335

5 жыл бұрын

That's probably the biggest thing that I disagreed with him.

@mme.veronica735

5 жыл бұрын

A-Ranking all the levels all the time really shows how much mastery there can be. There are so many things to look for, alternate courses in Sonic and Shadow courses and hidden areas in Tails and Eggman. Knuckles and Rouge, they can go suck an egg, they just memorize.

@xthatghomiex2939

5 жыл бұрын

I don't like Final Rush at all, except the setpieces. The game's physics haven't aged all that well and that level is not flattering of them.

@raidoukuzonoha883

3 жыл бұрын

xthatGhomiex yes it has did you play the game or have you just jumped on the SA2 has aged badly train

21:30 I wouldn't call Shadow an edgy "alter ego". I'd call him an edgy COMPLETELY DIFFERENT CHARACTER! In fact, come to think of it, the titular Sonic is the one character we know the LEAST about. Think about literally any character that isn't Sonic, and compare their backstories. Or, in Sonic's case the lack there of. Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Shadow, Rouge... EVEN JET THE HAWK. We know more about them than we do the main character. In fact, in a lot of the story-heavy games, the villains have just as much, if not more screen time! (I really don't know what the point of this was)

@VictoryReviews

5 жыл бұрын

*Titular character*

@masonjones7777

5 жыл бұрын

yeah, also it's against the rules to use comics (non-cannon) for sonic's backstory. He isn't like Mario who doesn't need one (though Mario kinda has one anyway) as sonic is supposed to have a personality of his own. we now he fights for the environment, he likes chili dogs, and is generally friendly but we don't know why. Heck! there is no real explanation for his speed, unlike shadow (science creation) he doesn't have any backing for why (as a hedgehog) he can go far faster than other members of his species (like amy).

@matti.8465

5 жыл бұрын

I like Shadow because he was created as a way to adapt to the 2000's new idea of cool without putting Sonic in an out of character position. Personally, i think he managed to remain pretty timeless.

@RoyalKnightVIII

5 жыл бұрын

That wasn't a problem in the comics where we got to as in-depth as you'd probably want to with Sonic and more than any game had ever done. In the old Archie comics the writers went into Sonic's parents, his childhood and relationships... Sadly because Sega is paying more attention Sonic's complexity has finally been destroyed by corporate mandate and now he can't even cry or "ever lose" :/ so now he's more or less like he is in the games; very bland but with hints of what could've been

@xthatghomiex2939

5 жыл бұрын

It shows.

I've literally never played a sonic game so I dunno how this will come across. But i think it'd be cool to have a bossfight where the map itself is the boss, or the boss can move through the map, and you have to be really good at quickly navigating the entire map in order to exploit the boss's weak points

@Orange_Swirl

2 жыл бұрын

You come across to me, a Sonic fan, as clever. And, if the Sonic Rush games are any indication, the game designers had the same idea, with there being a whole boss you have to navigate the insides of in order to defeat it. I can't remember the exact name of it right now, but once I do, I'll come back and either reply to you, or edit this comment.

@TechBlade9000

2 жыл бұрын

So you want Collision Chaos' boss but big

"drop in music quality" Madness!

@Hema8551

5 жыл бұрын

he played the pc version

@silkworm2595

4 жыл бұрын

@@Hema8551 there's been the genesis version on steam since 2013 I think. Doesn't make sense that he'd play the first PC version and not notice the midi

I swear this is easily one of the single most fascinating videos I've ever watched on game design and as a developer I have watched literally hundreds if not thousands. Really, really well done. Also @ 11:11 yeah wait WAT????

I have to admit that I'm kind of thankful for Sonic Forces showing me the appeal of Classic Sonic. I grew up with the Adventure games and enjoy them, despite them being broken, and I've always been of the mindset that Classic Sonic wasn't fun because things were always slowing me down, and Sonic's speed prevented them from seeing them coming. But that's the point. Enter Sonic Forces with its challenge system: specifically, finish Ghost Town, a Classic Sonic stage, in under 50 or so seconds. For once, I actually played the game as Yuji Naka intended, and it was actually a lot of fun. Every time a wall or pit slowed me down, I restarted the level until I had the environment memorized. And eventually after learning all the incoming obstacles, I gained a sort of mastery over the level that finally let me beat that 50-second mark. Or maybe I'm just bad and clearing it quickly was a piece of cake. I don't know.

@uneedrambo716

3 жыл бұрын

sonic forces had the worst classic sonic...

@waytoobiased

2 жыл бұрын

If you liked Forces, try Mania. It mops the floor with Forces

Sonic 3's music is far superior to 2's. Did you play the PC version?

@MultiTieko

5 жыл бұрын

Mark BlackWhite murder it

@Igneeka

5 жыл бұрын

​@Mark BlackWhite I know I'm 6 months late but... kzread.info/dash/bejne/pYWKrY-OdbyTqag.html They kind of ruined it

@silkworm2595

4 жыл бұрын

@Mark BlackWhite midi and generic composition replacements for the copyright restricted tracks

@doveseelight

4 жыл бұрын

@@silkworm2595 actually these were the original tracks, later in development switched with the ones you know now.

@silkworm2595

4 жыл бұрын

@@doveseelight the build was found after my comment

I almost always see Sonic Colors seemingly forgotten in many of these reviews of the franchise. It's actually the only Sonic game I've ever personally played, and I enjoyed myself very thoroughly and the ending was superbly satisfying.

My 10-word description was "explore big levels, find fastest route, and outsell Mario, bro".

“I want you to write down a description of sonic in 10 words or less.” ... *HE’S THE FASTEST THING ALIVE.*

Super bummed to see you didnt include Sonic Advance 2 which was the defining game of the series for me, with replayability the major focus with different character options opening different routes for the entire game, level mastery with sonic being rewarded with super sonic for the final boss fight level, and generally the levels felt like they let you move pretty fast, especially if you mastered them. That was a very, very good sonic game that really turned me off to most of the other games in the series.

Well, the "combo moves" also existed in Sonic 3 and the Sonic Advance series, but didn't require an overly complicated animation to be used (unless you count having to hold the R button on Advance too much an issue, wich i don't tbh)

First, I would like to say this is a *_phenomenal_* video. Lots of interesting information presented in a clear, engaging manner. Second, while I 100% agree there's a relation between _Spectacle_ and _Challenge_ in the best Sonic games, I'd argue it's more important to identify the one or two _Core Appeals_ for a particular product and evaluating how effectively they deliver on that experience. In other words, *_"What is this game trying to do and how well does it accomplish it?"_* And I personally think not determining what the _Core Appeal_ of the game is has caused almost every single design problem in every Sonic game out there. The argument that *_"Being Fast"_* is Sonic's Core Appeal doesn't work because it's too vague of a concept and doesn't define a clear design principle on which to base the game. How does that speed translate into the game? Rapid inputs? Fast moving backgrounds? Momentum based platforming? Parkour? *_In short:_* *Sonic developers often don't have a clear picture of what they want to do and instead add things that allude to a poorly defined concept. Speed can translate into a myriad of different elements, some which don't synergize well.* Hopefully, the next Sonic game has someone with a clear vision in charge that is able to establish a Core Appeal for the game and takes it as far as it can go, instead of throwing out lots of ideas and see what sticks.

To me, the Sonic Adventure games felt like a blue-print of what Sonic Team wanted 3D Sonic to be. They tried to expand on that blue-print with Sonic 06 but failed, so they destroyed the blueprint and made a new one.

Be said Sonic 3 Dropped in music quality than i n Sonic 2. ***TRIGGERED***

@melivundla4410

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah 🤣🤣🤣

"Write down in 10 words or less what Sonic means to you." *me, who has never played a Sonic game but had this video in his recommendeds and wants to know where this is going*: "blue fast spikey guy."

I wrote, "The end is extremely fucking nigh" in blood on my wall when you asked me to at the beginning of this video. I'm beginning to regret my decision.. that shit hurts man. Oh well, the reference was *WoRTh iT*

You sir make great content! Your channel deserves more attention.

Thank you for mentioning the chao-garden in a positive way. I have very fond memories of grinding together with a friend for our ultimate chao.

The cursor being on the screen in the Mario background footage physically hurts me

Sonic was a non-linear platformer with cool moves, spinning up, and being able to play with a friend or cousin that could do whatever they wanted with no downside. Seemed fun as a kid. That's what I thought. I guess I only played Sonic 2 though. Casino zone was the best thing ever.

@FlareStorms

6 жыл бұрын

Casino NIGHT Zone.

@seba83888

6 жыл бұрын

non linear? since sonic 1, 2 and 3 you go from point a to b... wel... if we count the fact that the collectables count... pretty mutch of the games arent linear, and that incluides colors, unleashed, generations and forces

@xthatghomiex2939

5 жыл бұрын

@@seba83888 Yes, this is how travelling works.

Because I feel like posting it, my ten word or less description that you asked us to write at the start was "Momentum based quick decision semi-linear platforming (also boost later)"

Great, now I have a sign describing a blue speed mouse in my epic Minecraft base.

You weren't kidding about calling yourself an outsider of the fandom cause this video had all of the hallmarks of what Sonic fans have had to deal with over the years. Right down to the "Sonic had a rough/rocky history something something 3D" and bringing up Big the Cat.

Sonic Heroes is basically Sonic Adventure 3, but because of the changes they made, it goes by it's own name. It is part of the main line and you probably should've played it for this.

@alexanderstilianov

5 жыл бұрын

I doubt he'd call himself a Sonic fan after playing that mess of a game.

@xthatghomiex2939

5 жыл бұрын

Sonic Heroes is what Adventure 2 could have been as a much worse game.

@ahmadkazan7994

3 жыл бұрын

Sonic heroes is just *so fast* to be an adveture game.

Marble Garden has a secret wall in Zone 3 that cuts off 10 minutes of the autoscroll block part. Specifically the one that was shown with the annoyed Sonic expression. Aswell as the entire next section by jumping off the double chain spike part that looks like a dead end.

all these years and i had NO IDEA about that purple water staircase skipping shortcut omfg you just blew my mind

"The Blue Dude With The 'Tude!" 6 words

After seeing the new live action trailer, I’ve been asking myself wtf is sonic too....

Pretty long thesis on Sonic and all his flavors, thanks for taking the work to point these things out.

This is a very well made video. Clean editing, exellent writing and a lot of work put in. I would be interested seeing your thoughts on the 3d mario games as they had to change a lot in order to adapt to to added axis.

Firstly I think it's absolutely criminal your videos haven't got more views. I know it's early days for you but there's more depth and care taken in them than many KZreadrs on many thousands of times more views. I'm definitely going to try and push my friends to see more of these. Secondly, having spent so much time really dissecting the Sonic games and having about the most fair view of what works across both 2D and 3D have you considered doing an addendum going over Forces considering the pretty poor reception? Many reviewers are picking up on obvious control issues and level length or falling back on a few overly tired cliches but I think you could have some insight that would really add to the conversation. On paper there's stuff there that should work such as iterating on the Generations approach but seem to fall flat. On the other hand the avatar which many were hesitant on is one of the better received parts of the game (my take is that the Avatar levels actually hybridise the Adventure and boost styles, taking a slower character eases the movement somewhat and the wispons add a varied gameplay element in the free movement areas making tight platforming and enemy jumping less important).

@ArchitectofGames

6 жыл бұрын

I considered making a followup for forces but having played through it, I think my prediction at the end of this vid was unfortunately correct, so I'd rather talk about new games than revisit sonic just to repeat myself. That said, here's a quick rundown of what I think: It's easily the most automatic sonic game to date, which really does the classic sonic stages especially a disservice which feel noticeably watered down and linear compared to generations. Modern sonic probably fares best, and benefits the most from the really quite good aesthetic design in this game. The avatar levels are insultingly easy (especially with the flamethrower) and take place pretty much in corridors. But I will agree with you, It's a real shame because there are a lot of great ideas in the avatar bits, the grappling hook is criminally under expanded upon in particular. I also think the writing is appropriately over-the-top to work. It boils down to the fact that every gameplay idea is so simplistic and under-cooked that it feels like I'm playing a tech demo. Maybe if they made a whole game focusing on the avatar stuff it might've turned out better, but I'm starting to think at this stage that sonic team just don't know how to make a sonic game any more which is even more damning stacked up against the total surprise that is mania.

@chaoaretasty

6 жыл бұрын

Understandable wanting to focus on new games. I have to agree on the automatics, not just in terms of the little moments but also mechanics themselves, taking drift out severely reduced the things to do in 3D boost and the wisp boost pickups took out much of the decision making in when to use it and managing its levels. It almost feels unfair to talk about classic Sonic's level design after Mania. Undercooked tech demo is definitely a fair summary. Thanks for your thoughts and keep up the good work.

@wilburdemitel8468

6 жыл бұрын

I was about to say the same.

no sonic heroes?, sonic advanced, or sonic rush?

@ablationer

6 жыл бұрын

No joke, Advance and Rush seem to have just went under everyone's radar.

@4shtia

6 жыл бұрын

It's sad because Rush Adventure is genuinely fun, and manages to balance automatic and organic segments. With the exception of boss battles and the pirate ship, all the levels have alternate routes, centered around the boost mechanic, and automatics that on a speedrun, can be skipped and if they can't be, don't take too much time. I spent a good amount of time speedrunning the first acts of Plant Kingdom and Machine Labyrinth, and learnt a bit of Act 2 Plant Kingdom so I can personally attest to this. Also, while the lock-on attack is present, you definitely don't need it. I know. My R button is broken.

@Scroteydada

6 жыл бұрын

Sonic rush is worth discussing

@cliffturbo2146

6 жыл бұрын

Kobo me too. The R button is broken *you can't complete Rush ever again*

@4shtia

6 жыл бұрын

*NOT THE TUTORIAL*

Description of Sonic: super fast blue boy fucks with Egg shaped man

That was a really interesting breakdown, thanks. It helps me understand why I never really played sonic past green hill zone (aside from not actually owning the game). I remember I really enjoyed that level, but then was immediately disappointed with marble zone. One game that I think is worth looking into that I didn't hear you mention at all - Sonic 3D Blast. I can understand why it doesn't really belong here, as it represents an enormous departure from the usual formula. Nonetheless, I found it really enjoyable - it is the only sonic game I've ever beaten.

"Speedrunning in game form" were my less then 10 words, still feel like it fits to and oh man the shear amount of times i played the levels in generations, idk how many times i went through green hill and city escape trying to get perfect runs

my description is: a guy who runs fast and saves a thing

@thealientree3821

4 жыл бұрын

So Mario?

@ahmadkazan7994

3 жыл бұрын

@@thealientree3821 mario doesn't run fast.

"What the fuck is a SONIC?" - JonTron's Friend

Preserving inertia + platforming puzzle solving + multiple paths: this is what defines a sonic to me You go as fast as your instincts can take you, but may be stopped or may need to slow down to solve a puzzle or find a quicker way around and you always have multiple routes to one or more goalposts. Just gonna post that one up before continuing and see what's up ahead.

"sonic is a platformer that uses ball-like physics to achieve flow."

Pretty good analysis, but you're kind of making a mistake in claiming that every Sonic game should and indeed does try to capture Naka's original design intent. SA2's linear levels and focus on automatics shouldn't be seen as flaws inherently, as the game was trying to go for something very different from the games that came before it, same as Unleashed. It's just not right to say that every new Sonic game should pursue one singular ideal, when the definition of what Sonic *is* has changed radically many times over the years.

@ArchitectofGames

6 жыл бұрын

I think that's probably the biggest hole that can be seen in this argument: that maybe sonic doesn't actually have any sort of unified identity. Personally I feel like the adventure games weren't that great because they tried to go for something new, but kept a lot of genesis sonic's mechanical underpinnings like momentum and the jump physics which compromised this new vision they were going for. Ultimately it's all down to taste though, I imagine someone who liked the adventure games would come to a completely different conclusion.

@Zimran03

6 жыл бұрын

Adam Millard - The Architect of Games I feel like there’s a way to mix adventure and boost gameplay well in both mechanics and level design. Look at Sonic World, a fan game I’m sure a lot of Sonic fans heard of. But only look at Sonic gameplay and the stages Metal harbor, Wave Ocean, and Green forest. The rest of the characters and stages are pretty bad.

@fireflocs

6 жыл бұрын

'They were trying to do something new' is no excuse. If you suck, you suck, and not every new thing is worth trying out.

@IkeOkerekeNews

6 жыл бұрын

fireflocs What excuse? And did they actually "suck?"

@GANONdork123

5 жыл бұрын

fireflocs Poor implementation of ideas does not mean the ideas are bad to begin with. This is why Sonic Forces failed. It has no depth and the little it does have to offer is unrefined and poorly done. Games like Sonic Colors and Sonic Forces are extremely vapid and devoid of any new ideas save for the shallow gimmicks that those games have, I.E. the Wisps, the Custom Avatar, and Forces's version of Classic Sonic. This "don't try anything new" attitude will lead, and in some ways has lead to stagnation similar to the likes of the New Super Mario Bros. and Super Mario 3D series of games. Innovation is necessary to keep people invested, but these ideas should be used in tandem with what already works and not work as a crutch or hinder the experience.

I like how you analyze things. Very personalized and in depth. On another note, i though i was the only human being on the planet that enjoyed the chao gardens. I think i spent more time there than the actual game.

Edgy, funny, fast, quippy, free, carefree, wild at heart, sweetheart.

I think that the sonic advance/rush series should get all the attention 4 is given, and I actually liked episode 1...

@ablationer

6 жыл бұрын

It's like nobody has ever heard of either Advance or Rush. Hell, I even enjoyed Sonic Battle on GBA quite a bit even if it wasn't technically a "real" sonic game.

@nngnnadas

6 жыл бұрын

Actually I thought battle was pretty lame even as a kid.

@silkworm2595

4 жыл бұрын

The silent majority. People are more likely to comment on something if that comment is a complaint. Dimps was up to snuff up until Sonic 4. I'm sure the name, marketing and console ground it covered didn't help.

(for the quiz of 10 words or less at the beginning of the video) Too fast for the Naked eye, Sonic The hedgehog.

I think that what we wrote on our papers at the start of the videos are more about what makes us like Sonic games rather than what is a Sonic game. For example, on mine i had written "Platforing game that rewardd mastery with a sense of speed", which is more true of the earliest games as speed is less earned in modern games. I guess its obvious which era of Sonic games i started with :p

For the complaints about classic Sonic not giving enough reaction time: play one of the widescreen ROM hacks. It totally changes the entire feel of Sonic as a whole in a good way. That little bit of extra screen space makes the game feel much more fair without really taking away too much from the skill, because I feel like I get going faster with that but of extra visual information. Also, check out Sonic CD. It's the definitive 2D Sonic IMO.

nice to hear an objective read on the sonic franchise. also, you dont have nostalgia clogging up how you see things. i unfortunately do so its nice to hear this relatively objective analysis. this video was well put together and i enjoyed watching it

@lpflowrider8619

5 жыл бұрын

Bless this comment and this video. There should be more people like you in the fanbase

@ketrub

5 жыл бұрын

same, many comments are "MUH ADVENTURE PERFECT I HATE BOOST IT AUTO REEEEEEE"

@ketrub

3 жыл бұрын

@Xavior boost is like, it killed my family. I agree that it killed my family. Gonna play some Adventure 2 Knukles (genius design) .

@thefrubblewarrior4678

2 жыл бұрын

Subjective, this is a subjective analysis from an outsider like me, trying to bring everything under one banner, with his own definition for what makes a good sonic game.

@thefrubblewarrior4678

2 жыл бұрын

@@ketrub You do know- well, this was three years ago, nevermind

I completely disagree with your verdict on Unleashed as a package. The Werehog just BARELY makes up half ths game, has just as much depth as many other beat em ups, and most of its levels dont go beyond ten minutes if you keep the pace up (Which isnt long considering the type of playstyle it is) Lots of people also love to neglect that Unleashed isnt JUST "Sonic and Werehog". The story is one of the best in the series, the game is packed with bonus acts, the hubworlds are small and charming and NPCs all have Majoras Mask-like sidestories that make the game feel cohesive and whole. Unleashed Project is certainly a good way to just, play the 8 main stages (eggmanland not included) but it takes too much away and even fucks with the controls and ranking system too much for me to recommend it. Give the Werehog a chance, and give Unleashed as a whole a chance. Please.

@rynobehnke8289

5 жыл бұрын

Well I personally hate Unleashed so in case you are interested in the thoughts of someone that doesn't Like Unleashed you may continue reading. The Gameplay abandons the Classics fairness that Rings created in favor of NES like Try and error Design in which not knowing when to press which bottom preemptively will just kill you the Boost was certainly not all translated from 2d to 3d at least in my opinion so I find little to no joy in the Day time stages because of this design which wouldn't even that bad if Unleashed wouldn't be so stingy with its Extra lives but unlike The unlimited Extra lives of the Story Book games or the easy acceptability of extra lives from Advance 3 does Unleashed makes it really had to get multibel extra lives for first time players meaning I there have to start from the start of the whole level again. Add on top of this just because the terrible decision to make the Homing attack Jump Boost instead of Jump Jump which caused enough issues already by this combo taking slightly longer to perform while the game is faster than ever but ones you get the Air Dash does this bottom layout just completely break. The Werehog is also not all that Great beside the obvious Issue that the music with him gets really stall really fast because there is only one battle theme for the whole game does his platforming also often suffer from fixed camera angles that make precision jumps like the ones the Game expects to be done much harder and most of this are over who could have guessed it bottomless pits makes them even more of a lives drainer than there need to by levels that are at least 10 minutes in length and will more than likely take even longer for first time player. The Tornado sections in unleashed are hands down the worst Tornado levels in the series the levels from Sonic 2, Adventure, Pocked Adventure,4 episode 2 and Mania are all far superiore to the ones in unleashed with are just the most uninspired QTE's you will see in a while which actually have the bottom you have to press overlap each other (seriously in the same year was Sonic Rush Adventure released and all 4 of its vehicles play much better including the U-Boot which used the same kind of Gameplay but with less enemy over saturation and far easier executions thanks to the touche screen) The Hub maps feel way to small for Day Time sonic and that the hubs are always strictly split into Enemy and puzzle field sections and NPC filled sections makes them come of as far more artificial and immersion breaking than there should be SA1's hub do a better job at this.(and this one is purely personal But I hate the character design of the Unleashed NPC's) So that would be my biggest reason for hating Sonic Unleashed out side of the Story which I hate just as much be it for completely disregarding any pre-established continuity, killing Amy and Tails Character development there received between 1998 to 2006 turning them into cowered's which is just so disrespectful to this characters I use to like because Unleashed took almost every away that I like about them (especially Amy is hit hard losing not just the power she trained so hard for but also completely losing the core part of her personality her want for adventure which is what made her fall in love for sonic, which is for what she trained so hard for, which was always her prime motivation in live beside protecting her friends and hugging up with Sonic). Chip is really annoying because he with his goofy antics just takes the drama out of every scene he is in until his lost Memory plot line is suddenly resolved properly because the designers realized there still had to finish that loss end and cramped it into the very end of the game. And the entire story is just completely hollow and with out live between Start and End.

@MultiTieko

5 жыл бұрын

Mellon "don't go beyond 10 minutes" wtf most of the later werehog stages took me 30-40 mins to finish

@TerrorOfTalos

5 жыл бұрын

Unleashed has garbage controls

“Fast blue hedgehog, don’t stop running”

I honestly find Sonic Adventure 2 to be the best gameplay the series has ever seen, at least in 3D. I do agree with the points about linearity and many areas having the feeling of being cool when pulling off high speed individually instead of automation, but the overall control felt good and a great translation from 2D to 3D, and the idea of including some elements like the aforementioned puzzles and other routes to the goal occasionally has been really well designed and implemented imo. I think the reason some things like the puzzle elements being included was just them experimenting and taking advantage of sonic being in 3D. But that’s just me though, I do enjoy the other gameplay styles as well, but nowhere near to the extent of SA2. Interesting video btw, throughly enjoy it.

Sega has it all wrong. They need to bring back Sonic 3D Blast.

@alexanderstilianov

5 жыл бұрын

That game gave me actual headaches as a kid. Probably the colors.

Why dose every one hate on unleashed? The night stages are not bad, not perfect, but pretty decent.

@kenjikuroiwa99

6 жыл бұрын

Quality whiplash, the great day sections contrast too hard how not great the night sections are, people also don't really play sonic games for hack and slash gameplay. If it was a spin off like mario kart which was completly dedicated to it's gimmick maybe it would have been a bit better in that aspect.

@Scroteydada

6 жыл бұрын

Better than the day stages

@SquidwardProfilePic

6 жыл бұрын

Nah they're pretty horrendous imo. Definitely not what I play sonic games for.

@staticshadic

5 жыл бұрын

Night stages not bad actually

@Scroteydada

5 жыл бұрын

Still terrible if you're gonna bring in the competition but no where near as broke as the day stages.

1:47 sonic are games about skill dependant but rewarding movement andplot

You:”first 10 words to describe sonic” Me:”really super duper Uber fast hedgehog thing that is fast...?”

Cmon now, big the cat is great! I love fishing for froggy and when he never grabs the hook it's really engaging.

im i only one that uses insta shield in sonic 3

@111riffi

4 жыл бұрын

Me too. A life saver XD

holy shit how have i not seen your videos before, i love you and this video.

Sonic in ten words "fun but slightly janky hold up or right platform games" Oh and the blue borders on sonic 1 footage, PAL version. Best sonic retrospective video I ever seen by the way, well done fella.

"Running through levels with obnoxious obstacles or none at all" Ten words exactly.

arrogant blue anthropomorphic hedgehog saving animals from genius robotics madman

@weridpikachucharizardfan3927

6 жыл бұрын

Arrogant? to be fair he was only like that during colors, generations, lost world and forces

@alexanderstilianov

5 жыл бұрын

Sounds like a very weird porn title.

@matti.8465

5 жыл бұрын

@@weridpikachucharizardfan3927 He wasn't arrogant then, Sonic just acts like a jerk when interacting with Eggman.

9:59 I'm going to show this to my math teacher, he might have a seizure.

My 10 word or less description was "He's about being cool and exciting" which best describes Sonic's automatics and "spectacle" nature you mentioned, most noticeable in the 3D and later games. When Sonic first came out he was a cute blue hedgehog with a round tummy and fox for a friend, Sega's Mario, but later eventually Sonic found a new image, being cool. He slimmed up, got cooler looking games like Riders, and obviously there's Shadow. Since Mario is about being fun and accessible, it makes sense he's cute and playful, but when you think of going fast you think of F1 and fighter jets, all of which have an essence of being cool and edgy. So maybe his nature of gameplay drove his new aesthetic and then that drove for more automatics to provide cool set pieces and moments rather than fun and meaningful gameplay. It was definitely good that they caught themselves before it was too late and found a way to merge the gameplay with the spectacle in a satisfying way. A bit saddened you didn't mention the Sonic games I've spent the most time playing; Heroes and the Rush games.

Sonic is fast with level design that slows you down.

@Scroteydada

6 жыл бұрын

Joshua Brown so git gud

@IkeOkerekeNews

6 жыл бұрын

Joshua Brown That is good.

@SquidwardProfilePic

6 жыл бұрын

So u need to learn the levels and then you'll go fast.

@Scroteydada

6 жыл бұрын

"Dark Souls is a game where you come to life, but then there are enemies that try to kill you! What were they thinking?"

@xthatghomiex2939

5 жыл бұрын

@@Scroteydada If Dark Souls made you drop your weapon by using it, you may have had an argument in analogy there.

Even as another outsider the way you describe the some of the stuff here (like calling shadow Sonic’s edgy alter ego) it kind of feels like you’re missing half the puzzle here.

@TechBlade9000

2 жыл бұрын

You know the phrase jack of all trades, master of none No one realizes this applies to understanding IPs

@thefrubblewarrior4678

2 жыл бұрын

@@TechBlade9000 That does seem to be the case.

No matter what you think, you must admit, the OSTs are LIT

Duuude, an in-depth review about sonic and not a word about the bonus levels to get the emeralds of chaos in the first generations? Or Sonic 3D? Not saying that they're good or memorable for what they are but I feel like a big part of the picture got left out here. Although everything else was quite relevant and interesting to hear! Maybe with the exception that some of the water levels weren't that bad, and that some of the puzzle aspects of earlier sonics were still quite interesting and fun because they still relied on agility and speed to complete.

I think the other major problem with unleashed that bogged it down was the need to collect these medals to be able to advance to new levels. Though it encourages the finding other shortcuts (though by far not all of them were hidden in shortcuts) that worked in the past sonic games, it also forced you to play some levels ad nauseam. It also forces you to go slowly through the sonic stages to find them all unless you really don't mind repeating them even more. This wasn't the case for the werehog stages that were slow to begin with... but those weren't particularly good to begin with either. Sonic heroes was the first sonic game I've ever played. If I had to rate it... it's probably better than sonic adventures. It has some good speedy moments, and even more automated moments like rail grinding usually involve something to do like switching between them to avoid obstacles. At the same time though, it has that same complaint you have with sonic 4 and sonic adventures. In every stage you can switch between speed, flight and power modes on the fly. These modes give you either an effective way to punch things or to go vertically... neither really adds to going fast. I also can't remember the levels having too many shortcuts particularly. But as a sonic scrub I might've missed them all xD I'm always available for some gaming discussion. Personally I bolted on Xcom 2 the moment one of those shapeshifting aliens came out of nowhere, activated something explosive and killed 2 team members in a way I didn't even know was possible. But I guess I can at least talk along on Xcom 1? XD You have my discord regardless.

@JDReC100

5 жыл бұрын

hm... about the medals in Sonic Unleashed....it really depends on the version you have. the progression system in some versions is entirely different than in others.

The boost to win formula is not the ideal Sonic game... It's funny how you criticize automation when those games are 90% automated.

My 10-word essay on Sonic the Hedgehog: "He's a cocky, blue speed demon with inconsistent game developers." Well, I guess you're right. My description is pretty close.

explore large environments very quickly with nice music and stuff

I will start with a disclaimer as well because that seems to be the get out of jail free card for criticism these days. I don't know you, I mean nothing ill of you personally, and I don't watch your channel. So there will be assumptions in here, as well as attacks against your arguments based only on what I can assume from this video. I will start by saying, the only person less qualified to say “What is a Sonic anyway?” than an outsider, who played a handful of Sonic games, is out of the loop of Sonic culture and cannot even properly formulate the primary complaints about the old or new games. Is my grandmother who has never touched a computer or game machine in her life. Especially if that somebody takes some of the highest selling and most praised titles, and puts them below average selling good, or awful titles. With little context for technology, era, development and total bias on how they are portrayed. I also believe this video would have more downvotes, but internet mentality is often that if it is a long video it must have informed and intelligent arguments. Plus you already have a following to back you up on likes. This is not to attack your channel but instead the quality of the arguments made and how informed you are overall in this one video. I will begin by setting aside opinions on art. Like the quality of soundtracks, which most people rank S3&K above S2 for example. And assume you either played the PC version or are just a contrarian trying to say things other people don't. Mind you. I enjoy the S2 soundtrack more, but I would never say S3&K had downgraded quality, with one of the most famous and highest quality 16 bit soundtracks ever made. Poor Argument 1: Repeat the mantra of Yuji Naka, then ignore it and complain about it five seconds later. Yuji Naka was absolutely right. In execution a Sonic game, especially the classics, is a game built around replay value and perfecting speed. And you somehow knew that, then complained over and over as your primary complaint that “Later levels are hard and I cannot move fast!” and given the infomercial style video in the background I can either assume you are intentionally exaggerating or not very good at the game. I have introduced many people first time into Sonic with S2 or S3&K, and watched them be very successful, not fast, but successful at the later levels. But as you stated, you aren't suppose to be FAST unless you are GOOD. The game is meant to be replayed over and over so you can improve your performance and mastery of the mechanics until you have smooth, fast runs through levels. If you aren't having fun doing that, it doesn't mean the games that set the standard for what Sonic is are wrong, it means it probably isn't a game style for you or that you are the kind of player who likes autoplay, movie “games” and games with minimal upfront challenge. Given your excessive endorsement of the boost gameplay, I would say that is true. Boost gameplay is okay, but moderately challenging at best, watching the game play itself at worst. This is the primary flaw with your entire argument. And given that Sonic Mania has been so successful despite being a low graphics throwback game, and is considered the best Sonic game in years. I would say that you are simply wrong. People do like the old style of gameplay, that is about natural, fluid feeling of getting to go faster by getting better. Games where even most of those 'automated events' were still just an extension of natural gameplay, as there was very little of the automation you show, you were just selective in picking what zones to show. Game devs back then made games to be played, not watched. Poor Argument 2: Cherry picking levels and segments of levels to make your argument seem coherent. This effects this entire video as well. You frenquently pick just one level in each game to make it look bad, good or back specific bits of logic. Then choose specific segments to showcase, and either perform them perfectly to show why it works or if you don't want it to work you infomercial it, showing a very exaggerated worst case scenario. I could literally flip this and show the worst parts of Unleashed(even boost levels) and the best parts of Sonic 1 to make it looked reversed. I will conceed Sonic 1 had some issues, mostly resolved by Sonic 2 in level design and the creation of spin dash. But even Sonic 1 you pick the worst level, worst segments, and worst specific moments to try to make your point. Then act like that is the entire game. Poor Argument 3: Sonic didn't work as a 3D game. Given how many people still beg for Adventure 3, and that those two games were some of the highest selling across multiple platforms and recreations. No. The games weren't sloppy because 3D, momentum based, open movement Sonic didn't work. They were sloppy because all 3D platformers were in the beginning. Sonic Adventure was released in 1998 and Adventure 2 in 2001. The technology wasn't there for Sega. They gave up on trying to develop the technology and instead made awkward things like Heroes with strange mechanics, Ow the Edge and then the flopped Sonic 06. Convincing themselves that Sonic didn't work in proper 3D without ever properly trying it beyond the early technology Sonic Adventure games. You would know that if you would have played more than a handful of Sonic games, or knew anything about the culture, community, history or development of Sonic games. Sega has always been killed by poor development decisions, that means poor quality games. By the time they put out some games with decent quality again, people were so desperate for a good Sonic game they'd claim anything was a return to form even if it had nothing to do with Sonic design philosophy. Poor Argument 4: “Sonic Generations was good because it brought these factors into balance” Sonic Generations was well received because it had more in common with the classic games, period. No awkward humans, the story was Sonic enough, you didn't have to play weird search or werehog levels, and there was a mix of platforming and speed that let you grow in skill over time. Plus commemorative games sell well, especially when they literally have classic Sonic in them. That is why Mania was even more well received critically. Unleash initially sold well due to the post '06 era where people were seeing this as Sonic not sucking anymore, and initial good advertising. Then fell apart critically in the community rather rapidly. The Werehog parts were not only awful, but after the initial hype the boost levels split the community. About half likes them because they think Sonic = speed without effort. And about half dislikes them because they think Sonic is suppose to earn speed through skill. Neither is wrong, both can enjoy what they like. That said, it is far from a return to form for Sonic, it is a new form. Welcomed? Sure, but it isn't back to the formula that is Sonic. Closing statement: I don't speak for all fans. But there have been dozens upon dozens of Sonic analysis videos and articles that did a much, much better job. Were well informed. And didn't shit on the classic games for no reason. Some of these I disagreed with, but they were still respectable efforts that other people may agree with. Some of them are in line with what I say. Either way, I think my main point is, you claim an outsider opinion but then go into detail of trying to define what makes a Sonic game good while shitting on some of the most well received games and kissing up to one of the least liked. Making this video very much come across as “I enjoyed/was good at these two Sonic games but not these couple others. So let me show how good mine are and how bad yours are in the most bias way possible!” For the most part your complaints about the classics were... the later levels were not easy. As for adventure, most of the problems were some of the side characters since, looking at only Sonic levels, they were pretty solid giving concession for the technology of the time. I'm not impressed. I will consider looking into your other videos, maybe they are better. But I would highly suggest more research if you are going to make a video almost 50 minutes long. And claim to crack the code of why a series, you know little about and have little experience with, is good and bad.

@Kayem237

5 жыл бұрын

I agree with this assessment. I only really started playing the series at Adventure 1. I do enjoy boost games for some silly fun, and the more complex ones like Generations does have an element of getting better and faster at the game. A friend of mine made me play Sonic 3K a couple of years ago, it was much more difficult and much more engaging than any of the other sonic games I have played. The thing is, that the classic games were designed with momentum in mind, you used skill, level knowledge, and momentum to rocket through levels as fast as possible, or to explore the levels. It accomplished the same goal as 2d sections of boost games, without relying on set pieces to do so. Then when I played Mania, which was similar to Sonic 3k, but with the engine limitations removed I was blown away, now, I don't feel that Mania's level design is quite as good as Sonic 3k's, but I've played more time on it than I have Generations or Forces. The thing is, that those latter two games lack a crucial element to the feel of the baseline format that the classics and Mania had, in my opinion, Momentum. If I play classic sonic in Generations and get to a slope and press down, nothing happens, if I start running down the slope and press down, nothing happens. The only way I can roll downhill in Generations is by spin dashing down it, and even then it eventually stops or forces me to run again. Forces is even worse. These games lack ways of maintaining momentum, and you lose momentum at the slightest action. Even Sonic Adventure had a little bit of momentum gameplay, though it was lacking a lot of it as well.

@superkami63

4 жыл бұрын

this is the most pseudo intellectual thing I've ever read lmao

50 minutes of video invalidated by two statements 1. Sonic 3 drop in music quality from 2. Say what, now? No, just no. 2. Saying that you have to wait for the lasers to stop shooting in Launch Base to advance while at the same time the video shows Sonic destroying a laser... I played the Genesis Sonic games for years every Saturday morning as a kid it is as much about speed as it is about platforming. You talked about going slow in Sonic 1. Slowness has been there since day 1. It is a 50/50 split. End of story.

@killswitchlee123

5 жыл бұрын

Jonathan Morgan going slow makes you appreciate the momentum / speed segments more.

That was a fun ride, I was entertained throughout. For the record, my explanation was "Speed, flow, skill, balancing reaction with exploration and experimentation."

I think this study of Sonic's game design brings something really interesting to the table that few people are saying. Sonic's game design is about fast and engaging game-feel, with levels that are fun to play through once, but even more rewarding to explore and master. 3D Sonic can work if linear game design were removed, and more steam-lined levels with secrets and alternate paths were implemented.

Hehe, Sonic Colors isn't like Sonic Unleashed in the slightest... The gameplay's pretty clunky and bad. You're playing the absolute worst version of Sonic Adventure, of course you wouldn't like what you're playing. Did you forget about Starlight and Scrap Brain in Sonic 1 (that had a lot of speed moments)? Why did you pick the Sonic 2 level that is unlike every other level in the game? Why did you pick the Sonic Adventure 2 level that is unlike every other level in the game? The puzzle in Labyrinth is just destroying an item box to reveal a switch, how's that grinding the game to a halt? And you can skip parts of that other puzzle in Crazy Gadget (I think they've intended you to do that since it plays with gravity for a reason, right?). Which level did you pick for Unleashed...? You've shown most of Jungle Joyride but also parts of Rooftop Run. It'd be better to actually say the level that you're talking about and only focus on the specific level. I've written down "Sonic is all about fast paced platforming.", not "Sonic is about rings, spin dashing, optional routes and Metal Sonic.". Also, roll down hills to move faster. You really didn't talk about a specific level in Sonic Generations and instead have talked about the whole game itself. Sure, there is a tiny bit of you talking about a specific level but most of the time, you've shown multiple levels again and mish-mashed all the levels into one description. Also, just boost in the water or get the better paths that don't have water in Generations. Boosting gives you quite a bit of distance, especially in water where you slowly fall to the ground. And then a quick stomp to land and boom, fast gameplay in water. Sonic Heroes is absolutely a game you should've played, it mixed the gameplay from previous titles up a lot. If you included Lost World and 4 Episode II... Heroes should've been there. Seaside Hill isn't a water level, it's just a reference to Labyrinth Zone. Crisis City's backstory to this level is about a fire monster-of-the-week breaking free, destroying a city and Sonic being in the distant future of this place. 4/10 video. Expected worse.

@tyson9670

5 жыл бұрын

You are way too critical. Also his opinion is different than yours so if you are going to “review” the video than take out bias

I don't agree with your analysis. Were you alive and playing games back when Sonic was new? I question because the way you expressed yourself, it seems that you are missing some context. You only mentioned "Mario" as a comparison. First of all, that was the time of the 2D platformers. Each of them had a "gimmick". Something to differentiate them from all others. From example, there was one called Aero the Acrobat (I remember very little, but I think he could glide), Decap Attack (you controlled a mummy that could use its own head as a weapon), James Pond (a fish that could stretch its body), Ristar (a star that could streatch its arms), etc. You are taking the "running fast" too literally. It was just a GIMMICK and a way to show the power of the Mega Drive. Sonic is a side scrolling 2D PLATFORMER. Most Sonic levels were standard 2D platform stages, like most games back them. For example, Forza Motorsport. It's a driving simulation game. One of the features that differentiated it from the competition was the customization of the looks of the cars and pilots. Does it mean that "Forza is all about customizing cars. Therefore when I am not customizing something, I am not having fun"? It's a GIMMICK! It's something its creators thought it would help them sell their game to a more casual audience. The game is still a driving simulation regardless.

This was actually really interesting!

I honestly think a Sonic game would do great as an open world. 1. Mastery of the world, you mentioned this. In an open world game you master the world, learning how it works and the environment of it. The more you play the better you are. 2. Speed, a huge part of Sonic is speed. Making an open world game where you focus on speed is something that hasn't been done before (except a fan game for Sonic), so it would be a new idea in an old game type. 3. It can work well, remember that fan game I mentioned? It is fun as hell, with a quick search you should find it. Try it, it's 100% free. 4. Chaos Emeralds, why is this one of my points? Make the chaos emeralds a secret, a reward for exploring in a game type about exploring! Hidden in the world, in the deepest cavern. In the highest cloud. In Eggman's space fleet, we've been to space before why not make it explorable? 5. Story, again why a point? Sonic is about speed, not story to some players. Make the story optional! You can unlock abilities without it (Ring Dash, Homing Attack, Boost, Teleport, Etc.). For the players who want story, they can go through it and get a reward (Play as shadow, have tails be a companion)!