This is the "is a hot dog a sandwich" question of the FGC lol

@thegrimreaper144

3 жыл бұрын

It is, honestly.

@Neoxon619

3 жыл бұрын

You aren’t wrong

@namelol.mp4561

3 жыл бұрын

*The real questions are being asked*

@JoJo-ov5kq

3 жыл бұрын

A hot dog is a sideways sandwich imo

@NurseLee

3 жыл бұрын

OMFG LoL Fucking Nailed it.

I read a post that said: "The smash community calling all fighting games' reps Shotos is the equivalent of your mother calling all videogames Nintendos" An I couldn't agree more

@chaotickreg7024

3 жыл бұрын

Can we keep doing it if it's funny?

@benjaminspanklin1662

3 жыл бұрын

Back before E3 2019, I recall some people saying that Erdrick/Luminary from Dragon Quest would just be a generic anime swordfighter and it took a bit of time to see if those remarks would come to fruition. But when I saw some people saying that Terry was just "Ken with a hat" before his showcase, I already knew they were wrong.

@bbbsharank4667

3 жыл бұрын

@@chaotickreg7024 no because its the equivalent of a kid screaming of not knowing how to read an that it sullied your pants, it's "funny" in the sense that everyone will buly and mock said kid for the rest of their lives for being stunted mentally and saying dense things, you dont want people laughing at you like that, kid

@RRRRRRRRR33

3 жыл бұрын

At the end of the day, nobody is right or wrong regarding this stupid and childish subject. It's just fun to discuss game mechanics. If the smash community comprehend "shotos" as the main characters from a fighting game franchise, so be it

@mykr0324

3 жыл бұрын

This

Alternate title: Max explains how Mario is a shoto in 18 minutes.

@MiguelDLewis

3 жыл бұрын

Funny but where’s his quasi-tatsu?🤔

@GameGod77

3 жыл бұрын

@@MiguelDLewis In 64 and melee it's his down+B, in brawl onwards it's his down aerial.

@tenslein8977

3 жыл бұрын

@@MiguelDLewis down-B

@MiguelDLewis

3 жыл бұрын

@@GameGod77 Why of course, how could I forget? That's his bread and butter XD

@Xenos_hive

3 жыл бұрын

@@MiguelDLewis doctor mario

Shows Mario "Is he a Shoto?" Me: "Wait... change him to fireflower colors"

@zjohnson101

3 жыл бұрын

Mario and Luigi are both shotos I'm not letting this go

@naeonixion

2 жыл бұрын

I mean.. they don't have a Tatsu.. But they *do* spin attack

@AngelLozadaBlindNun

2 жыл бұрын

Mario and Luigi both had (have) a spin attack in melee that moves them forward caled (X) Tornado. Definitely a Tatsu. Those attacks were later changed to FLUDD

@Logos_Loki

2 жыл бұрын

@@AngelLozadaBlindNun Luigi still has his. Luigi is still a shoto

@AngelLozadaBlindNun

2 жыл бұрын

@@Logos_Loki Haha ha I was actually talking about how in context of Melee is from the past but we still played in the future

What Heihachi was thinking when he threw Kazuya off the cliff: “If he’s a Shoto, he’ll shuryuken himself back up.”

@gustavomartin2565

3 жыл бұрын

* Thunder god fist to the top of the cliff *

@johnmarstall

3 жыл бұрын

"I can come back from this!" "Shuryuken."

@MclamoreGamingYt

3 жыл бұрын

*Wave dashes up volcano* Heihachi: My god!? El Diablo

@pokeng

3 жыл бұрын

"Kazuya might be in smash someday, so I'll give him experience being thrown off a cliff."

@AlexHernandez-fc3bu

3 жыл бұрын

"Shury you can!"

Maybe a Shoto are the friends we made along the way.

@aggressivebuttonmasher5486

3 жыл бұрын

found the band kid, get em' boys

@leekotvfilms5236

3 жыл бұрын

Checkmate lol 😂 😂

@ianthorpe1925

3 жыл бұрын

*Slightly bows in recognition of this comment. lol

@chipshornierthaneverbefore7771

3 жыл бұрын

Oh you don't know? The real shoto was inside you all along!

@Scrubermensch

3 жыл бұрын

Lmao

You know what's funnier? As someone who's actually a shotokan karate fighter, I can tell you that the character that most resembles real life shotokan is actually Makoto, who is technically not a shoto by definition. Go figure.

@TonyTarantula

3 жыл бұрын

Mattheus, can you do an EX Shoryken - FADC - Metsu Hadoken?

@matheusb.bergara5251

3 жыл бұрын

@June Shotokan Karate is the original style of karate, founded in Okinawa by the karate master Funakoshi. There are other styles like Kyokushin, that resembles a bit more Jin Kazama and Kazuya Mishima from Tekken, but yes, Shotokan is very real.

@matheusb.bergara5251

3 жыл бұрын

@@TonyTarantula No, and neither can Makoto lol

@KenjiAsakura09

3 жыл бұрын

@@TonyTarantula otherwise known as the UmeShoryu

@murasaika2776

3 жыл бұрын

huh... how ironic.

I was dying when he said "Is that shoto" and pulls up a pic of mario

@ESFAndy011

2 жыл бұрын

Where I lost it was the MK Ninja rainbow bit

I love the concept of Mario being a shoto lol

@ShyRanger

3 жыл бұрын

Me not being an SF player, when I saw Mario first get his Final Smash in Brwl I thought it was him basically getting the hadoken.

@Darktotaled

3 жыл бұрын

he is a shoto in dong dong never die tho

@DanielThomas-nv1gz

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah Mario a Shoto and Luigi is too

@itsaname7448

3 жыл бұрын

Smash player here. Luigi is more like a shoto than mario, because luigi's fireball doesn't have gravity, he has a rising uppercut, and he has tornado which can move

@M644theawesome

3 жыл бұрын

Mario is a shoto if you go play dong dong never die

Internet: "he punches and kicks and he's from a japanese fighting game, guess they added another shoto" Max: "You can't even begin to understand the history, significance, and gravity of that word let alone the variations and correct applicaple usages"

@bandawin18

3 жыл бұрын

He is a true Fighting game historian

@Waveburd

3 жыл бұрын

im gonna say the S word.

@adbee621

3 жыл бұрын

Okay, here's what happened: Smash terminology developed independently of the FGC history of the 'shoto' term. When Ryu/Ken were released, they were called shotos for all the traditional, historical FGC reasons. Once Terry was added, he was close enough to Smash Ryu/Ken (fireball, uppercut/spinning kick, auto-turnaround, AND having command inputs in addition to normal Smash controls) to also be called a shoto. Kazuya has now expanded the Smash 'shoto' term to be a trad fighting game character with command inputs and auto-turnaround. THESE TWO parts superceded the specific movesets to use 'shoto' as a way to identify characters with non-traditional movesets (Inkling doesn't count here because lack of auto-turnaround and command inputs outweigh Shield+B). In short, Ridley is not a spacie.

@mexitalican99

3 жыл бұрын

@@adbee621 🤣🤣 ok buddy.

@theexaltedlt8222

3 жыл бұрын

@@adbee621 terry's spinning kick doesn't work like Ryu or Ken's tho. Neither does his uppercuts.

As a professional Shoto with a masters degree in Shotology, I can confirm Max's Shoto analyzation is true.

@anenemystand5582

2 жыл бұрын

I was going to major in shotology but I accidentally mixed it up with uh... something else.

@gustavonunez5959

2 жыл бұрын

Holy "Shotopedia".

The fact that Gouken, Ryu and Ken's sensei, is not a shoto is just hilarious.

@devils_kin0449

Жыл бұрын

He is a shoto-like tho

@elcreyo

Жыл бұрын

@@devils_kin0449 Gouken is a completely different character than Ryu and Ken. The way he works is not even close to a shoto.

@TheGamersState

10 ай бұрын

@@elcreyo Hang on....how is Gouken not a shoto? Yeah I agree he plays very differently but he still has the base fundamentals for being a shoto. He has a Shoryuken, a Hadoken, A Hurricane Kick, and even his atire is very similar to Ryu and Ken. If Gouken isn't a shoto, doesn't that mean Sakura, Akuma, and Dan aren't shotos?

“What is a Shoto?” Ya know… it’s that guy.

@TheDatabaseNetwork

3 жыл бұрын

Okay, "BokuNoHeroAcaFan67" 😂

@pantyosashu8137

3 жыл бұрын

SHOTOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

@TUCell-ps5mi

3 жыл бұрын

Well we know what a “shota” is that’s for sure.

@PathFinder1490

3 жыл бұрын

Ken: “You’re not that guy. Trust me, you’re not that guy.” Kazuya: “Okay. And you are?” Ryu: “Absolutely.”

@LightningFlare95

3 жыл бұрын

And that guy? Ryu, from Streets.

"Hello, I'm Sagat. And I *conveniently* murdered Dan's father."

@whitenoise0065

3 жыл бұрын

Dan's dad still pulled out his Eye

@AlonzoTompkins

3 жыл бұрын

@Whitenoise 00 It made it more convenient.

10:13 well technically Dan was created to mock ALL of SNK not just ryo, more specifically it mocked Robert (face) Ryo (Body and gi design) and Yuri (pink was her original color, her victory pose was literally ripped off by dan and her fire ball is exactly the same as dan's)

@KitsyX

3 жыл бұрын

I feel like I remember Dan and Robert share a move too... It wasn't that kick move he has instead of tatsu is it? It's been a while since I played an SNK game, but I feel like I remember noticing that... Might have been Ryo... I need to play some KoF again or something...

"How close is the character to Ryu in terms of moveset and gameplay" is the question that should be asked. Ryu is the definitive Shoto, so it's much easier to class others as Shotos by using him as the point of comparison.

@trunnellstaverntales6228

3 жыл бұрын

So then, in terms of smash, Kazuya is definitely a Shoto. His similarities to Ryu is far closer than Kazuya to anyone else in the cast.

@matu239

3 жыл бұрын

Damn, this might be the best definition of a shoto, at least to me

@espurrseyes42

3 жыл бұрын

@@trunnellstaverntales6228 Terry is closer to being a shoto (frankly, he kinda is a Shoto save for that Charge motion and Power Wave not being a traditional fireball) that Kazuya. The only thing he has is the look, and that is irrelevant as far as Archetype classification goes.

@trunnellstaverntales6228

3 жыл бұрын

@@espurrseyes42 the definition for Shoto in smash seems to most accurately be "Input character with an auto turn around".

@espurrseyes42

3 жыл бұрын

@@trunnellstaverntales6228 Shoto is already an established fighting game term, and even if that's the term you want to go with as a "Smash version", that's all they share. Kazuya doesn't use his inputs in the same way Ryu, Ken, and even Terry do, having numerous extra normals outside the usual, a special Dash, and numerous specials that can ONLY be done with inputs (including a command grab) whereas the Shoto Bois and Cousin Terry's Inputs are for stronger versions of their existing Specials and one or 2 Input Exclusive moves. Kazuya and the Shotos (and Terry) function distinctly different from each other despite using similar gimmicks, and to refer to him as a Shoto would imply that he does play like them, which is misinformation. That'd be like calling Guile a Shoto because he has a fireball and a DP, completely ignoring the fact that he executes his moves differently and has to play the game differently from Ryu.

I'm not even a fighting game guy and "Is Mario a Shoto?" _still_ feels like a cursed question to me.

@jasonduhela9597

3 жыл бұрын

Short hop dair is a pseudo tatsu Neutral b Up b There’s an argument there but it’s mostly a meme

@SenshuRysakami

3 жыл бұрын

@@jasonduhela9597 In Luigi's case, what about the green missile? Does that count as a Tatsu?

@jesuschrist1049

3 жыл бұрын

yo luigi is definitely a shoto no room for debate there

@lordzooq8987

3 жыл бұрын

I mean damn he kinda is

@GameGod77

3 жыл бұрын

@@SenshuRysakami Luigi's down+B is a tatsu, the Luigi cyclone.

Laughed a little too hard when he showed the mortal kombat ninjas. “Are these shotos”

@DX5555555

3 жыл бұрын

*Pulls up DBFZ SS Goku and SS Vegeta* are THESE shotos?

@greylithwolf

3 жыл бұрын

@@DX5555555 gi = check Ranged projectile with the hadoken stance = check Super uppercut = check Spinning kick = not check Goku is definitely mostly Shoto, but not 100%. So depending on your metric he either mostly is or simply isn't.

Luigi is definitely some form of a shoto, especially in brawl. He has a fireball, he has a spin move with cyclone (and in brawl, it is significantly faster on the ground for approaching), and he has an uppercut. But I’m all seriousness, it’s definitely an interesting topic to discuss but I feel has become more of a “is a soup a cereal?” argument

@alondjeckto

20 күн бұрын

Cereal is a soup, not reverse

Damn, I thought "Shoto" was just the name for the all-rounder/balanced archetype.

@iChoseScylla

3 жыл бұрын

For me a Shoto is - Dragon Punch - Fireball - Tatsu - Can feature the staple design but not limited - Average height, build, reach (obviously they’re ripped lmao but in terms of other fighters) Sagat takes up way too much of the screen and his fireballs/tatsus aren’t standard to other Shotos

@huevonesunltd

3 жыл бұрын

For me this is how a pure shoto is like - Horizontal Fireball - Has a reversal (doesn't have to look like an uppercut, has invincibility) - the reversal is not a charge move, bonus points if the move is done with a DP motion. - Bonus points if the reversal moves upwards but doesn't have to - bonus points if they have a special move that moves them forward and is airborne More bonus points if: - They are an all rounder - Has "footsies" kind of normals - Simple gameplan, somewhat limited offense options - You can pretend you are playing Ryu and you will do fine with pure fundamentals even if you are completely new to the game

@jimmycruz7172

3 жыл бұрын

@Connie Ford not in fighting game standards

@jimmycruz7172

3 жыл бұрын

@Connie Ford saying shoto means anyone that uses shoto karate isn't a actual definition. people define characters based on playstyle and their "goal" when playing, so you can't call them something based on a fighting style(which would only be animations in the game) when their play styles could be complete oppisites. so no. you cant just say "shotokan karate" and call it a day

@johnpetersantiago2630

3 жыл бұрын

That could be true. However we have characters like Dan who has bad frames, but is still a shoto when it comes to gameplan. For me what defines a shoto is 1. Inputs, usually when they're not a charge character and not a grappler character 2. Gameplan

I wouldn't mind a mini series going over every fighting game character archetype and the history related to them.

@chu-pay

3 жыл бұрын

I wanna see grapplers next

@anotherinternetperson8495

3 жыл бұрын

@@chu-pay megaman is a grappler

@lunarSoul0

3 жыл бұрын

Yea I'm on board with this

@realssanne

3 жыл бұрын

That’d be amazing

@thegreygoblin5165

3 жыл бұрын

Nice idea@@chu-pay

Max really gave me the thought, “Mario is a shoto,” and I can’t stop laughing lol

@kylewoodowens4488

3 жыл бұрын

Well I thought for a long time that shotos was what they call main protagonist characters in fighting games.

@blacksiopao

3 жыл бұрын

Let me tell you of a game called _Dong Dong Never Die_

@phlixcarbon

3 жыл бұрын

@@kylewoodowens4488 No that is false because Mario IS a Shoto and he’s not a fighting game character.

@deco7217

3 жыл бұрын

@@phlixcarbon In smash, everyone is a fighting game character. But mario started as a platformer one.

@abhipatiri

3 жыл бұрын

He basically was in Smash 64 when he didnt have FLUDD replacing his tatsulike move.

one thing that might contribute is the fact that in smash; ryu, ken, terry and kazuya share the auto-turnaround mechanic to emulate the games they are from. Since ryu and ken represented the posterchildren of this mechanic for all of sm4sh and much of ultimate, meaning people would lazily call terry a shoto cause he shares a defining characteristic of the actual shotos. There's also the fact that because of how these four characters are designed, they end up playing quite differently to the rest of the smash cast, especially when it comes to combos and how you execute them. In this way, one could argue that in the smash dictionary, a shoto is a character with auto-turnaround, special inputs, special cancelling and other features that replicate the experience of a traditional 2d fighter, which makes them feel like a whole genre of character. The name shoto only remains because that is how people refer to the pair from street fighter, who were the originals. or maybe the FGC is *awful* at giving things consistent names that make sense. IDK.

my favorite thing about this is that the smashers like me who play fighting games broke it down as to why Kazuya isn’t a shoto and the immediate response from the other smashers that don’t was literally “we know he isn’t. we just don’t wanna call him by his name”

@toastadasd8578

3 жыл бұрын

Smash being such a different fighting game should be allowed to have its own definition of shoto, idk if he auto turnarounds and has rewarding inputs he's a shoto

@maceinfaceinc

3 жыл бұрын

That's the most annoying part they know their wrong but simply don't care

@ashtar3876

2 жыл бұрын

@@toastadasd8578 it should have a different name so people that call shoto's by their movelist don't get confused

@LeinRa-Reaction

2 жыл бұрын

@@toastadasd8578 or you guys can just...use different terms altogether.....

@phabiorules

2 жыл бұрын

@@toastadasd8578 meanwhile in an alternate universe. "Smash being such a different fighting game should have its own definition of a Korean backdash, idk like jumping then immediately air dodging towards the ground to get better movement and offensive tools."

i cannot wait for sakurai’s presentation next week where he just casually says “kazuya is not a shoto” and then IMMEDIATELY moves on

@joecoolmccall

3 жыл бұрын

O I would love that...you have no idea lol

@ziongamer6905

3 жыл бұрын

I’d love he just opens it up with “He sorta looks like Ryu! But he is not a shoto. Anyways-“

@Sharkofspace

3 жыл бұрын

I want this so bad

@srrorsas7811

3 жыл бұрын

I can totally see him mentioning it and people loosing it thinking he knew about this argument lol

"He does not have a Gi" I guess we know what Sagat's next DLC costume gonna be.

@benjaminvo1872

3 жыл бұрын

Lol it won’t work cuz Muay Thai doesn’t use Gis

@ryanm.8720

3 жыл бұрын

@@benjaminvo1872 Technically, Muay Thai also doesn't involve shooting fire from your fists.

@benjaminvo442

3 жыл бұрын

@@ryanm.8720 You must be learning the wrong Muay Thai

@NirodimosNeedAKing

3 жыл бұрын

@@ryanm.8720 no martial arts use pyrokinesis

@xpotatohamster7051

3 жыл бұрын

@@NirodimosNeedAKing you ever seen avatar?

everyone always ask "what is shoto," nobody ever ask "how is shoto." :(

I usually look at two main things when considering that a character is a shoto. The moves of the character (DP, fireball and tatsu) but also the type of inputs. The overall look of the character is a bonus.

He's a shoto, youre a shoto, im a shoto, everybody is a shoto.

@thesupernintendokid4012

3 жыл бұрын

Are there any other Shotos i should know about?

@Sonic09Hedgehog

3 жыл бұрын

Meow

@Zachygee412

3 жыл бұрын

He she we…..shoto

@WandererRedux

3 жыл бұрын

Oops! All Shotos!

@pyr0_jack

3 жыл бұрын

@@thesupernintendokid4012 Hadouken!

So Luigi's a Shoto. Just everyone afraid to Admit it lol

@loonieboy9697

3 жыл бұрын

Ive been saying this for years but everyone looks at me like im crazy.

@djsercy5879

3 жыл бұрын

I came to that realization the moment he was brought up. Heck it could potentially be argued that Dr. Mario and Melee Mario are shotos

@shungokusatsulol

2 жыл бұрын

Mario and Luigi (more so in melee) were smash shotos, both have a ranged option an advancing move and an uppercut

New drinking game: drink every time Max says “shoto”.

@unclepaul1995

3 жыл бұрын

Or Drink everytime When They Joke about Dinking Games. Now Drink.

@TKNinja37

2 жыл бұрын

Hear a shoto, take a shot oh

@naeonixion

2 жыл бұрын

When your stomach turns inside out from all the shots, remember to try saying Tatsumaki Senpukyaku

I was under the impression it meant the "all-rounder" character relative to each game. By the definition presented here a game with no projectiles can absolutely not contain a shoto no matter how much karate gi and allroundedness a guy might have

@Astraision

3 жыл бұрын

Same.

@ManoloRibera070

3 жыл бұрын

well luckily now you know.

@twistedtentacles9621

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah a character that shows gameplay elements from there serious and was a all rounder char with no defined weak points

@ashtar3876

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, which is why kazuya and stuff are called mishima's

@thisisobviouslybait

2 жыл бұрын

@@ashtar3876 Mishimas are just characters with 3 defining things, god fist, wave dash, a flash punch combo.

Bruh, I died when he went "Isn't that guy a shoto?" and pulled up Mario. Omg..

@MrDrProfessorSir962

3 жыл бұрын

Was he wrong ? Luigi my boy is a shoto too. Is chun li a shoto?

@CoolVictor2002

3 жыл бұрын

He doesn't spin kick, but he does spin

@enlongjones2394

3 жыл бұрын

Mario definitely was in Smash 64. Later on, he lost that when he traded his Tornado for FLUDD. Luigi and Doctor Mario fit the mold. And it makes sense. Sakurai made Mister Nintendo the shoto of his fighting game. Plus, Mario already had most of those moves, with the fireball and jumping into things (like he does to blocks).

@EduardoFlores-bt4fo

3 жыл бұрын

@@MrDrProfessorSir962 luigi is a grappler actually

@blockchainballer4542

3 жыл бұрын

The moment you realize Mario was the original shoto

"You could look like Owen fucking Wilson" damn looks like Max is a shoto

@brotherpanda

3 жыл бұрын

*Wow*

@Sly_Maverick_31

3 жыл бұрын

@@brotherpanda Wow, that's a huge snake.

Mechanically: a projectile, an anti-air/reversal move, and a move that carries you forward and ignores projectiles.

Max is so good at articulating how popular tropes permeate through various Fighting Game series and influence future titles. These 'deep dive' style videos (though this particular video could probably be described more as a dipping your toe in the ocean) are my favourite that Max does. This, and 'GIT GUD'. I WORSHIP sCrUbLoRd

Smash fans complain about shotos, then go on to play Mario who literally has a fireball, a spinning attack that keeps you in the air, and a jumping uppercut.

@hecetewest5411

3 жыл бұрын

Mario’s spinning attack doesn’t actually keep him in the air, it’s just a move he can use in the air. Dr. Mario and Luigi though

@nightshadeii9248

3 жыл бұрын

I was literally about to say the same thing, then I saw your comment. Big ups my guy.

@Gionmaru

3 жыл бұрын

Then again, Mario, Luigi and Doc have similar concept moves and follow the shoto variance trend much like Ryu, Ken and Akuma do. Gameplaywise they're much closer to a shoto than Kazuya, Jin and Heihachi are (they're their own thing, the Mishimas)

@kingofthesharks

3 жыл бұрын

@@hecetewest5411 you must have not played ssb64 and melee haha Mario and Luigi were both very obviously intended to mimic ryu and Ken with their 3 original specials. And mario tornado can lift Mario up if mashed, even aiding with recovery. FLUDD was added in Brawl cuz the devs wanted something from Sunshine in the moveset I guess

@Gilthwixt1

3 жыл бұрын

​@@hecetewest5411 only since they gave him the FLUDD. It was pretty clear when Sakurai made Smash64 he was paying homage to shotos with Mario's moveset.

Game History with Maximillian. Should have a whole playlist about it.

@bfuryy

3 жыл бұрын

Honestly

Makoto is the gritty, realistic Shoto reboot where they go back and make it actually faithful to the Karate it derives its name from.

@StriderZessei

Жыл бұрын

The proto-shoto?

Really missed the opportunity to define Dan Hibiki as a "Shit-o"

@Plasmacat1

3 жыл бұрын

Dan is cool though.

@IAMSTRINDOM

3 жыл бұрын

@@Plasmacat1 hes cool BECAUSE hes shit tho, like u have to be a shit to have an air taunt

@francescolombardi3438

2 жыл бұрын

a Shiti

It does suck that Smashers referred to the Fighting game characters in Smash “shotos” because the auto-turnaround does make them a legitimate archetype, they just decided to give it an existing name.

@retrozaid1600

3 жыл бұрын

Yep

@rando9556

3 жыл бұрын

Well really the same term could be used to describe different things

@issabino9903

3 жыл бұрын

@@rando9556 or you could make a new name so that confusion like this doesn’t happen

@EWOODJ

3 жыл бұрын

Many people in the FGC do the exact same thing.

@meathir4921

3 жыл бұрын

@@issabino9903 *coughs in Fuzzy*

If the definition of shoto is “the main character”, then 70% of the Smash cast are shotos

@nopewmv3377

3 жыл бұрын

on the other hand SVC Chaos is literally Shoto: The Fighting Game

@akumaisreal2090

3 жыл бұрын

the main character of a fighting game, he's talking about fighting games specifically.

@marin9412

3 жыл бұрын

Well there is a bunch of characters that are the main character of their franchise, but only Mario is the main character of smash.

@Levi_Skardsen

3 жыл бұрын

That would also make Alex a shoto in SF III because he's the main character.

@greylithwolf

3 жыл бұрын

TIL Pikachu is a shoto.

Bruh the smash fandom is exhausting lol. It’s unreal how many characters we have gotten. We are so blessed and they have no idea.

@zegreenemachine8160

3 жыл бұрын

As someone who plays a TON of smash, it is kinda frustrating to see people get upset that (blank) character isn’t in the game, and “my character deserves to be in the game” or “it makes complete business and logical sense for my favorite character to be in this game.” Never mind most people don’t understand the hell of licensing and how difficult some companies are to work with. That being said, I feel like that’s a consequence of having a wider install base and an extremely broad range of demographics. The VAST MAJORITY of people who have Smash are not competitive players. Most don’t know a competitive scene even exists. So I feel that the massive amount of people who doesn’t play competitive or watch competitive make Smash players like Myself look like I don’t understand anything other than “My Nintendos.” I’d also liken when people don’t understand Smash Bros and it’s finer gameplay details but are sort of picking up the terminology and have a vague grasp of its ideas to being near people who speak a different language than you, and you are just trying to interpret what the hell these other people are saying. Also: it’s super frustrating hearing people denounce Smash as something worth considering without understanding it at all. People who look at the Punching game with Mario and Pikachu and say “that’s stupid” and act like “WhAt ThE hElL iS a SeX KiCk?!? (Flying Kicks that weaken as time goes on) Or “wHaT’s a DaCuS?” (Dash attack Canceled Up-Smash) It just bugs me that the same people who say it’s dumb and stupid also know very little about it and are unwilling to listen and learn about it.

@manicpixie566

3 жыл бұрын

I quite enjoy smash. It's not a game I play competitively like some other fighting games, but it is fun to just play, and the kind of people who knock it without even trying it should try it. It's a very solid game with a hell of a roster. Smash is like getting a shot of liquid fun directly into you blood stream. It's really a good game to chill too if you play it casually. However as a fighting game fan in general I do find the Smash community at times quite infuriating especially when they demonstrate their ignorance when it comes to other fighting games. I mean seriously calling the likes of Kazuya, and Terry shotos, and so many people not knowing who Terry was. Maybe if they announced Akuma or Sakura but uhgg then you would have another Shoto, though Smash Akuma, or Sakura, even Dan would be interesting to see. As for me I am happy with Kazuya though I still main female Byleth, Sephiroth, and Peach.

@zegreenemachine8160

3 жыл бұрын

@@manicpixie566 I get that. It sucks that lots of people don’t want to experience some new stuff. Different fighting games other than the one they’re used to. It’s not helped at all that many fighting games are a) not on Nintendo Consoles (Guilty Gear, SF5, MvC, Tekken 7) b) the ones that are have to deal with Nintendo Online. Which, PLEASE GOD NO. I would love to give other games a chance (been watching loads of SF5, Strive, AC+R, DBFZ) and just Sajam, Kizzie Kay, HookGangGod, JWong, Max, Bafael, and so many more have broadened my understanding (if limited) of other fighting games. Part of the issue is that people may have SOMETHING of an idea of what’s happening, but they don’t fully understand it. Like When Max explains what a Shoto is, and in other Vids doesn’t seem to understand how to do cool Smash Tech nor want to understand it. The use of language is so important, and when you don’t have a good grasp of another dialect or language, their words might escape you. I’ve been in rooms with people that speak languages other than English, and it’s tough to my points across. So, I have to do things that those people could potentially understand. And when I learn words that others say, I may not initially know what they’re saying, but I will eventually pick it up slowly over time. Even as I make mistakes in understanding and delivering my own broken version of that dialect.

This video just blew my mind

Fun fact about Ryu, Ken, and Makoto. Ryu and Ken don't actually use Shotokan Karate, that was just something the localization team came up with. As a little joke, Capcom made Makoto. She actually uses Shotokan Karate and they intentionally made her look like Ryu to poke fun at the incorrect localization.

@edusoares20

3 жыл бұрын

Man thats interresinting✌🏾

@LowTierDio

3 жыл бұрын

Makoto uses Rindokan Karate, I thought?

@endlesspath250

3 жыл бұрын

@@LowTierDio Yeah, but that was heavily influenced by Shotokan the same way Ryu and Ken’s style was heavily influenced by Kyokushin Karate…at least for the normal moves.

@bacj9868

3 жыл бұрын

Then by your definition, the Kyokugen guys (Art of Fighting, KOF series) aren't shoto as their moveset was inspired by Kyokushin in the first place. 🤯

@endlesspath250

3 жыл бұрын

@@bacj9868 Nope. Honestly, as catchy as the term “shoto” is, it’s not really all that applicable.

Knowing that Sakurai is a fighting game fan, it's really clear to me that he designed Mario and Luigi to be Ryu and Ken of Smash 64. They only have 3 specials: a fireball, a spinning move, a jumping uppercut. Luigi's spin is a multi-hit, his fireballs have different properties, and his uppercut is stronger. Things evolved as specials were added and changed, but in smash 64 they are absolutely shotos

@ESFAndy011

2 жыл бұрын

No, in 64 Mario was the multihit with his uppercut *and* spin. Luigi was single hit in both, with early hit uppercut being an almost insta-kill. I think it's kinda clever, Mario being closer to Ken in that way and Luigi to Ryu.

ok. 16:46 you really got me with super mario example after all the previous explenation of Shojo xD

You said Mishima was it’s own type of character. I would like to see a video where you break down all the different classes and types of fighters in Tekken games and maybe trace their origins and inspirations.

@se7en6277

11 ай бұрын

Mishimas - Martial Arts Style + DORYA/Electric King - Brawler Hwoarang - Taekwondo Xiaoyu and Lei - El Diablo

Best part of the stream was everyone in chat asking "Is ____ a shoto?" and Max answering them for 30 minutes.

@TheDwarvenDefender

3 жыл бұрын

If you put the Fire materia on Tifa, is she a shoto? 🤣

@maxxcreese9911

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheDwarvenDefender asking the real questions lol

@jonteguy

3 жыл бұрын

Did that happen? Lmao, poor Max.

@chakivang8586

3 жыл бұрын

Link lol

In conclusion: Kazuya is not a shoto and Eddy Gordo is a backup dancer

@anthonygerardotorresgonzal6269

3 жыл бұрын

Lucky Chloe: And He Will wear that cute dress

@BeretBay

3 жыл бұрын

underrated

@Sgt-Wolf

3 жыл бұрын

@@anthonygerardotorresgonzal6269 "Fuck you Chloe!" Said Kenny.

@polar6066

3 жыл бұрын

Brenda: I mean that shit is nasty!

@dannyboots

3 жыл бұрын

Eddy Guerrero

This would actually be a super cool video, Max goin on about fighting game archetypes. If it’s already it’s thing I haven’t seen it unfortunately but that’d be pretty neat.

Mario in the first Smash Brothers arguably is a shoto. His down B special was that spinning fist attack, which they later moved and replaced it with the pump from Sunshine.

@BroadwayRonMexico

9 ай бұрын

Mario was a shoto until Brawl, but Luigi and Dr Mario still are Though despite technically being a shoto, Luigi's kit is so jank and weird that he's pretty much a grappler in SSBU

Max just blew the minds of so many people by pointing out how Mario is more of a Shoto than Kazuya.

@RRRRRRRRR33

3 жыл бұрын

Naah, not really. If that kind of definition is centered around on the idea of the "main character" in a fighting game, then yes, it's a definition that could exemplify Kazuya. He looks like the main character, he has a uppercut, a tatsu of some kind, etc.. he just don't have the fireball because of the 3d nature of tekken, but you can be sure, if the devs at the time could implement fireballs in a satisfactory way, Kazuya would most definitely look and play like Ryu

@GVirusG

3 жыл бұрын

@@RRRRRRRRR33 Tekken 1 and Tekken 2 were 2D fighting games with 3D graphics

@crazydiamond3403

3 жыл бұрын

@@GVirusG with 3d space

@GVirusG

3 жыл бұрын

@@crazydiamond3403 absolutely correct

@aghniyananda8268

3 жыл бұрын

@@RRRRRRRRR33 What about Dan Hibiki? He isn't main character, but he is Shoto. Shoto designed as beginners characters in the game. Kazuya isn't the one. He is the hardest characters in the Tekken. Throughout the series, Kazuya's moves have some lag if not some very unhealthy frame data on whiff or block, limiting his arsenal of safe pokes and panic moves.

Luigi is a shoto. He has a fireball, spin-attack and an uppercut.

@fordgt5383

3 жыл бұрын

So does mario

@thedapperdolphin1590

3 жыл бұрын

@@fordgt5383 Mario doesn’t have the spin anymore since Brawl, unless you count the down air

@Fireroderickcummings

3 жыл бұрын

@@thedapperdolphin1590 dr. Mario is a shoto

@Lordratatosk1

3 жыл бұрын

@@thedapperdolphin1590 dair exists

@driftingswordsmanzer

3 жыл бұрын

I would put both the Mario Bros in the shoto tier.

Thanks to smash im now neck deep into fighting games. I love the genre now

Thanks for this video, I really needed this

I’ve heard “shoto” so much these past few days that it’s not even a real word anymore. All I’ve gotta say is that yes, Mario, Luigi, and Dr. Mario are shotos.

@RetroPillowcase

3 жыл бұрын

I think a shoto needs to have 2/3 of those ryu moves. This adds chun li, sagat, terry, takuma, and many more.

@AngrySonMetaphist

3 жыл бұрын

@@RetroPillowcase wouldn't the "Yahoo" qualify as a tastu?

@saucy208

3 жыл бұрын

@@AngrySonMetaphist yeah. mario's dair and luigi's/dr. mario down-b are tatsus.

Really surprised Max didn't bring up Jago at all. Totally the KI shoto.

@venkateshshenoy4888

3 жыл бұрын

It was mentioned in passing on stream. He said most of the characters in the original KI would be considered shotos

@legendaryhero90

3 жыл бұрын

Oh snaps! Jago is a shoto too!!

@jorgeaugusto6076

3 жыл бұрын

@@legendaryhero90 Both Jago and Fulgore

@mamodokod4613

3 жыл бұрын

He did, he talks alot more in the actual stream, they're also not shotos Fulgore and Jago only have uppercuts and fireballs not tatsus

@bruceleeds7988

3 жыл бұрын

Jago is 100% a shoto

It's so crazy how much the template of Ryu and Ken has created so much variance in games that we can recognize this base. It feels like these characters have enough tools for many fighting situations (balanced I guess you can say). Then, you get AOF's Ryo, Robert, Yuri, and Takuma who follow the template. Ryo is much focused on punches and Robert on kicks to differentiate, but similar enough that they follow the same discipline. I think the closest to the template is Yuri's early incarnation in KOF where she had an actual tatsu (same with 94' Kyo) I'd put it out there that technically, Kyo, Iori, Shingo, K', and Kula are shotos. They follow the base template though they are wildly different from their predecessors. Ash, as much as I want to say he is, he wouldn't be. He has some of the base characteristics but gameplay wise, he's a charge character. Terry would be one. Rock would be. I also mostly think it's also why certain characters get picked more *cough* Ken *cough* not only because of the situatual balances in their respective games but also they feel more familiar with them because the move sets are pretty much the same for the most part. So I say shotos are most identified by their place in the game they're from, their base moveset and base gameplay (for the most part. If you know Ryu's moves, you could PROBABLY play this character. I've had friends tell me 'oh this character (kinda) plays like Ryu' when playing a game I wasn't familiar with and I pick up on quirks immediately.)

Mario kinda had a tatsu in Melee as his down B was like Luigi’s back then.

@Nouxatar

3 жыл бұрын

and his Dair is. . . still kinda that? more limited, yes, but it could act as a tatsu (unless I'm remembering the move wrong, which I might be, haven't played Mario in a hot while)

Just a bit of info on the origin of “shoto”, it does come from Shotokan Karate, despite that those characters use a made up martial art called Ansatsuken (assassins fist). It got popularized that it was shotokan for some reason (comic adaptations I believe, got this wrong and it endured lore wasn’t really consistent in the 90s). The closest thing to real Shotokan Karate in SF is what Makoto uses, and it’s still closer to Gojuryu Karate than shotokan.

@mindwarp42

3 жыл бұрын

The reason for the Shotokan misconception: incorrect info/translations in international versions of SF II. It actually came from the game.

@nopewmv3377

3 жыл бұрын

Ansatsuken sounds like a ninja martial art. Assassins Fist

@paperluigi6132

3 жыл бұрын

@@mindwarp42 It's the same reason for the infamous Sheng Long hoax, which resulted in Akuma and Gouken.

@Levi_Skardsen

3 жыл бұрын

Capcom USA thought kids would be confused by ansatsuken and changed Ryu/Ken's style to shotokan.

@JesterNR1

3 жыл бұрын

So THAT'S why my sensei never taught me how to throw a fireball...

*SLAMS jeopardy button* Me: What is… what Low Tier God hates?!

@SonofTiamat

3 жыл бұрын

Sorry, answers in the form of question. What _is_ what LowTierGod hates?

@Sonic-oe1in

3 жыл бұрын

Preach!!!

@RotaAbyssian

3 жыл бұрын

Sorry, that's the question for "Everyone who is better than him, both as a player and a human being (a.k.a. Everyone)" It was a long answer, so I get the confusion.

@codyloayza

3 жыл бұрын

@@SonofTiamat my mistake! Fixed :)

@PK-vw3gd

3 жыл бұрын

gtab

I've always thought of shotos as the character/characters who represent the games core mechanics. I.E mario/ ryu/ ken/ sol and so on.

We need a Shoto tier list, and we need it now!

This is just a overly complicated way for smash fans to say, “Stop adding fighting game characters to my crossover fighting game” I have come to the realization that smash fans do not respond kindly when fighting game characters, sword characters, characters who remind them of anime or characters who don’t have a super strong history with Nintendo, so I have personally contacted Sakurai and together we have come to the conclusion that the only character that makes sense to end on is Sol Badguy, thank you for coming to my ted talk

@thenightstir7159

3 жыл бұрын

"Stop adding fighting game characters. Now whens that next Fire Emblem dlc?" lol

@Redxan600

3 жыл бұрын

What's funny to me is that there's only three fighting game characters in the roster. Four, if we count Ken.

@akatsukitheassassin3503

3 жыл бұрын

No joke they get mad when you don't call smash a fighting game but get mad when Nintendo adds high profile fighting game characters to it.

@Maloz-se1rf

3 жыл бұрын

@@Redxan600 yeah the only thing I can nitpick there is that I'd rather have Akuma than Ken, other than that I love these characters, even if I can only play terry

@BrickBreakerXX

3 жыл бұрын

@@Redxan600 Uh, Arms is a fighting game too, so Min-Min would be another fighting game character.

**raises hand** "Is Mayonnaise a Shoto?"

@anthonygerardotorresgonzal6269

3 жыл бұрын

No, JahJab...The Mayonnaise isn't a Shoto?

@christianbethel

3 жыл бұрын

@@anthonygerardotorresgonzal6269 Horse Radish is not a shoto either.

@Wolfedge75

3 жыл бұрын

Is this the part where we start (hurricane) kicking?

@SuperVada

3 жыл бұрын

@@Wolfedge75 sure you can

@neandeteren418

3 жыл бұрын

no mayonnaise is a mishima

I just got back into playing fighters again after not playing them for years when I was younger and started watching videos on your channel recently and up until now I never heard anyone use the term Shoto. When I first heard it I assumed it was a character who was user friendly like Ken and Ryu. Then I watched this video and was enlightened by Professor Maximillian. Very interesting video; and I thank you for it.

I feel it will be quite a while before I find someone on the tubes with a better intro. gets me hype everytime

Now I Need a VideoCalled "What is a Faust or What is a Yoshimitsu"

@41tinman41

3 жыл бұрын

They land in the unorthodox archetype, as far as I know. The weird kid of fighting game characters.

@brentsta

3 жыл бұрын

what exactly is a Faust i know who the character is but what is he

@Vohlfied

3 жыл бұрын

NAMU NAMU NAMU NAMU NAMU

@carlbloke8797

3 жыл бұрын

@@41tinman41 so basically like Game & Watch too

@41tinman41

3 жыл бұрын

@@brentsta Honestly, Guilty Gear lore is bonkers. You can find an hour long breakdown on one character alone.

Kazuya already has a term for his archetype. It’s Mishima, clue is in his name to be fair

@Loyal2law

3 жыл бұрын

Spot on. Just like Shotos, Mishimas are already their own. Generally, Jin is considered by many as a "Mishima" because of his EWGF and Hellsweep, which are two distinct moves associated with the archetype.

@smarttrainingnutrition1046

3 жыл бұрын

When actual FGC fans speak and not Smash-tards 👍

@MeatOfJustice

3 жыл бұрын

Mishimas are to Tekken what Shotos are to Street Fighter, right?

@DJmouchi777

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheEduardoAlex I know why they did it, but it's weird that the archetype is named after a certain family but there are characters in that family that aren't part of the archetype.

@NirodimosNeedAKing

3 жыл бұрын

The same goes for kazamas too

Got me thinking about all kinds of shotos now. Hanzo and Fuuma from World Heroes come to mind. I believe companies do this because people that already play SF don’t want to relearn combos or stuff like that. Familiar shotos usually have familiar controls.

Ryu's actual fighting style (minus the fireball shenanigans) is something pretty similar to MMA, but with strictly Japanese martial arts. Most of the punches are from karate (because of the hooks I'd say Kyokushin), the kicks are from karate & taekwondo and the throws are from judo/jiu-jitsu

"We trained Sean wrong as a shoto...on purpose."

@onceuponagamemaster1588

3 жыл бұрын

I think they were just more scared they made him too strong in 2nd Impact and backpedaled. Haha

@michaelbesser5348

3 жыл бұрын

@@onceuponagamemaster1588 I think I agree. I don't think Sean was necessarily meant to be bad, but I think that they went really far overboard on nerfs going from 2nd Impact to 3rd Strike. More Capcom over nerfing Sean by accident to me than trying to make Sean bad on purpose imo.

@CHAOSKlNG

3 жыл бұрын

We can appreciate his face to foot style. *squeak squeak*

@r.f.switch5847

3 жыл бұрын

I almost had tea go through my nose, you dick.

@kingcold298

3 жыл бұрын

@@CHAOSKlNG I'm more a fan of the nuts to fist style. Clearly more effective.

I’ve heard the word “Shoto” so much in the last twenty minutes it doesn’t even sound like a word anymore lmao

You’d have to play the games to feel and see the differences between all these characters shown. He does a good job to explain that.

I love these video game Max-Ted Talks!

I'm a Smash player and a FGC member of other games. Explaining what a shoto is to people usually connects it for them, but I don't have the energy to explain it to every single person who makes the assumptions just using terms they've heard on the internet. I appreciate this video so much and will definitely share it with others who aren't familiar with what the term really means.

@Thalanox

3 жыл бұрын

@Beats Beats Because idiocy is bad and knowledge is good. Living principals is difficult, but having community resources like this video specifically targeted at this kind of question makes things easier.

@Protosilver97

3 жыл бұрын

@Beats Beats Because know is power, and you know who has a lot of power? Top tiers!

@megamecha100

3 жыл бұрын

@@Thalanox Just because it provides you with knowledge doesn't means it suddenly matters. You can gain knowledge from anything, but everything can't be important

@kyurei4478

3 жыл бұрын

​ @Succulent Boi Either way, having knowledge will always be better that not because it will become important eventually depending on the situation. And I can't think of a knowledge that couldn't potentially be useful.

@foxbear60

3 жыл бұрын

To folks commenting on why it matters: It's just about helping people understand what they're talking about. Imagine having a conversation with someone where they say, "I love driving a Mustang; it's my favorite type of SUV." If you were someone who knew what a Mustang was, you'd acknowledge that statement as confusing and try to clarify. "A Mustang isn't an SUV. Did you mean to name a different brand or did you mean to say car?" It's for clarity and for helping others be accurate. My example is mild, but the same thing could be said about a medical procedure, or a law, or anything more important.

Imagine when smash fans learn that Pokemon Trainer is a stance character.

@crimsonwizahd2358

3 жыл бұрын

Aren't't Pyra/Mythra also a stance character then? As well as Zelda up to Brawl?

@fernandobanda5734

3 жыл бұрын

Wouldn't that be Shulk or Min Min? I mean, kinda, but your "stances" changes absolutely everything, so it's more like a tag than a stance character.

@HoodWeegee

3 жыл бұрын

@@fernandobanda5734 Shulk and Min-Min are weird. I want to call them "gimmick characters" because Shulk's whole gameplan is centered around the Monado and flipping his stats around to the situation similar to Min-Min changing her ARMS if she wants extra range, power, or comboablity. Yeah I know damn near every Smash character has their gimmick or trick, but unlike Pyra/Mythra, Zelda/Sheik, and Pokemon Trainer, who would be the stance characters of the Smash series with varied moves between each character, Shulk and Min-Min's movesets don't change at all when they switch things up, only their stats.

@fernandobanda5734

3 жыл бұрын

@@HoodWeegee That's fair, but "gimmick" is an incredibly generic term. Min Min changes a bit more than Shulk (for example, Ram Ram has a different hitbox vertical range while Dragon shoots a laser) but I agree that the essence of the attacks is the same.

@HoodWeegee

3 жыл бұрын

@@fernandobanda5734 I wish there was a better term for it rather than "gimmick character" because in some games, like Smash, EVERYONE has a gimmick. But that's been the only term I've found for those type of characters that center around a certain feature only they have on the roster and are essentially playing by their own rules.

I love how Max almost accidentally compared Ryo to Akuma. Of course, Akuma can throw a fireball with one hand in mid-air.

for me shotos are those characters that have the basic kit of moves from that specific game, kinda like the standard yellow lego minifigure shotos are the base from where all the other characters can branch out.

21xx -Potemkin *gets into smash* -Smash boy: "lol another shoto"

@Jairjax

3 жыл бұрын

Triggered

@jenschneider305

3 жыл бұрын

Dam bro you got the whole squad laughing

@ikagura

3 жыл бұрын

Sol would be rad

@terry-

3 жыл бұрын

lol

@perboscious

3 жыл бұрын

Potemkin in smash you say...

A shoto is he who struggles against the Satsui no Hado.

@anthonygerardotorresgonzal6269

3 жыл бұрын

So Akuma isn't a Shoto?

@Lolololololololololo123

3 жыл бұрын

@@anthonygerardotorresgonzal6269 Akuma embraced the Satsui no Hado bruv.

@dragons_hook

3 жыл бұрын

@@Lolololololololololo123 he fully embraces it in sf4 as the "what if" character Oni.

@matheusvasiliauskassoares4361

3 жыл бұрын

Luigi is a shoto, got it

@alexknight81

3 жыл бұрын

@@matheusvasiliauskassoares4361 always has been, I mean have you looked at the dude? He breathes the Satsui no hado

Fighting games have developed so far with so many gimmicks like charge or negative inputs or grapplers, that people started looking for a term for characters with simple button imputs. Good introduction characters to any individual game.

Are they all shotos? Maximillion: Well no, but actually yes

“Why is Smash Bros. getting so many fighting game characters?”

@damionbaxter4912

3 жыл бұрын

It's pretending to be a fighting game.

@shotokanclau

3 жыл бұрын

It'd be awesome if Smash was good 🤷🏻‍♂️

@megastorm1013

3 жыл бұрын

@@damionbaxter4912 exactly lol

@adamlodge8093

3 жыл бұрын

Who cares? I’m enjoying it either way

@gatsiro7585

3 жыл бұрын

So many fighting game characters XD bro 4 out 75 are 5,33% an that’s not many

Tune in next time on "FGC History with Max" to see the next hot topic: *_What is a Grappler?_*

@JoJailo

3 жыл бұрын

What is a stance ?

@Taktaagic

3 жыл бұрын

What is a Zoner?

@JoJailo

3 жыл бұрын

What is rushdown ?

@yegorlarychev9810

3 жыл бұрын

What the hell is Faust?

@Deadagent

3 жыл бұрын

@@JoJailo "Hey Hit, can you comment on the matter"

Well now I want Max to go into deep Shoto lore with a damn flowchart and everything.

Great, great analysis, really informative specially with younger people/players/audiences. To me more than calling these main characters "shotos" it would be more on how you perfectly put it almost at the end, when you talked about the protagonists of every fighting video game or franchise. What's common? The moves on these protagonists. Ryu and Ken were the main balanced primary characters you commonly adopted in the early days, so other fighting games copying and/or taking inspiration in SF were basically assuring that players would have this same entry experience on their titles. That's why a Terry-Andy / Ryo-Robert / Haohmaru-Genjuro / Demitri-Morrigan / Kyo-Iori / Reiji-Keith / Makoto-Ray / Sol-Ky / Ragna-Jin and so many more were a constant formula. Shotos? Nope, but the primary protagonist archetype were so that could cause some confusion. Mario... great example of an easy entry move wise protagonist character. Again, excellent video Max, thank you.

I swear he was gonna show Jago as a Shoto, because he has the exact characteristic of a shoto, but his tatsu works kinda different, AND he has a sword.

@bp42213

3 жыл бұрын

Was kind of hoping he'd show Gran from Granblue Fantasy Versus. His tatsu works a bit different as well, but the character plays very much like Ken Masters.

@samquik

3 жыл бұрын

Fulgore's pretty much a shoto too, except his tatsu is chargeable and he has a teleport

@d3c0yBoY

3 жыл бұрын

That’s Max’s opinion. Having a ryu fireball/DP would definitely qualify Jago/SJago as a shoto, sword or no sword. It’s all about the inputs.

@terry-

3 жыл бұрын

I gues he didnt want to go too deep into the topic, just a quick chat

@bjwaters

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I'd agree that he's very Shoto-inspired, not only through his mechanics, but also as a main character of the KI series.

Everyone who has played or watched YVG play *_Dong Dong Never Die_* knows that Mario is indeed a shoto.

@audiovisual51

3 жыл бұрын

And he has a Raging Demon

@SoapChill

3 жыл бұрын

ROFL I forgot about that video. I'm gonna go watch it right now! XD

He said shoto so much that it no longer sounds like a real word, it doesn’t even sound like a human sound, it’s become some lovecraftian nightmare sound

I’d love to hear your option on whether any characters from the rival schools series qualify as a shoto 😁

I feel like I learned nothing and everything at the same time.

I now need a MUGEN edit of Ken that says "Wow" with every DP.

@MrSkerpentine

3 жыл бұрын

Why could I *totally* see an out of touch clueless American film executive want to make a Street Fighter movie with Owen Wilson as Ken lmao

@squishsquishimafish6348

3 жыл бұрын

You're tempting fate, here.

Max “Father Time” Dood. Love your videos man

I'd say in my opinion what defines a character as a shoto is their ease of use, follow by the button inputs that are remanences of Ryu's button inputs and while they might not have all the same moves as Ryu's, their moves deliver similar properties that achieve similar results of what Ryu's does. If you can use the muscle memories of playing Ryu and apply it onto that character, I would consider them a shoto even if they don't have a similar appearance to Ryu.

Makoto is not a shoto, she's a shotokan practitioner. Same goes for Lidia.

@ghosttactician403

3 жыл бұрын

So a literal shoto

@Tropical_Panda

3 жыл бұрын

@@ghosttactician403 A real life shoto

@dush.1746

3 жыл бұрын

"he's not a karateka he just practices karate" (She's not a "shoto" tho)

@smileytlj23

3 жыл бұрын

As is Sub Zero during the 3D era

@bruceleeds7988

3 жыл бұрын

That's right

Ryu and Ken - YES! Terry and Kazuya - NO!

@ThaShogun

3 жыл бұрын

Terry is a shoto. Anti Aerial, fireball , and a rush down

@pedrojackson8416

3 жыл бұрын

@@ThaShogun Did you even saw the video???

@pedrojackson8416

3 жыл бұрын

@@ThaShogun Ryo Sakazaki and Robert Garcia are the SNK’s shotos, not Terry.

@ThaShogun

3 жыл бұрын

I watched it but I disagree about it seeing as he has the three elements. But then again I see Sagat is borderline shoto also and Ryu/Kens master considered a shoto on SFIV by a majority of players

@pedrojackson8416

3 жыл бұрын

@@ThaShogun Well im letting you know KOF has shotos, Ryo and Robert, also Yuri as hybrid.

Honestly this is my favorite episode of Maximilian Dood

To me a shoto refers to a playstyle rather than just a character type. I use it to help understand characters. A shoto in that respect is: Someone who possesses a fireball, an uppercut, and a 'tatsu' spin and uses them for a variable combat style with many options. Sean is a shoto in the same way Jago from KI could be called one. He has the tools but they are presented in a different style, often to distinguish them from other similar characters. Sagat on the other hand isn't because while he has many similar options, they are used and behave significantly differently. Shotos have a particular feel at their core, a root combat approach that is clear as you play them. They may have added or altered moves but you feel it as you use them to fight your opponent and learn their options.

@v8bitecho

3 жыл бұрын

To further this explanation the way I see it is a character with core basics that can be applied almost universally without being "the best" at any particular playstyle, a solid anti air, a general space keeping fire ball and an air link move to to take full advantage of a pop up. I think narrowing it down to the specifics makes it muddy and confusing, like what character these days doesnt have an uppercut of some kind? But theyre not shotos because the application is different its not just about smacking your opponent for jumping in its about actually punishing them for it and blowing them back, its not just a hadoken because that negates grounded fireballs despite a lot of them olaying in the same way but I wouldn't say a beam character falls intk the same category of a shotos playstyle, a shoto fireball should almost always be a way to force the opponent to either hold ground or retreat and a tatsu is really just a ground to air follow up to link your combos. Its why even though your Jins and Kazuyas dont fall into Shoto as a category your Sol badguys ands Johnny Cages could arguably fall into this style of play

@yugijak

3 жыл бұрын

@@v8bitecho Good point. In a way the shoto is effectively the baseline character. They are the character designed to take advantage, at least a little bit, of all parts of the game. Though I think the specifics help distinguish from stuff like charge characters. Specifically flash style characters like Guile. I've always felt Sol is a brawler over a shoto though with his very in your face playstyle and command grabs. Ky might be a better example of a shoto in GG

@ununun9995

3 жыл бұрын

Luigi