A bonded neutral power generator is required by code when you have a "separately derived electrical system" where the power transfer switch also breaks the power grid neutral conductor - thus also breaking electrical continuity between the power neutral and the earthing electrode system. In my two years of deployment in Iraq some 15 years ago... we derived all of our electrical power from large diesel generator sets ( Where all transfer switching between generator sets used 4-pole transfer switching that switched all 3 phases as well as the neutral... all generators had bonding jumpers installed across the neutral and the earthing conductors/electrodes... as such, this is what is commonly referred to as a "separately derived system" as the neutrals are separately derived and isolated from each energy source by means of the transfer switch. In my experience, generators with floating neutrals are both dangerous and deadly - as the likelihood of fault currents present will cause the shorted phase to drop to zero, whereas the solidly connected neutral across the entire installation will have a line voltage potential on it to ground or earth... the remaining phases will then have an elevated voltage potential in reference to ground or earth... in a 3-phase system; that would mean a voltage potential that is 1.732x the typical line voltage from phase to earth under abnormal mains line fault circumstances. Under this same condition though, all 3 phases will have what appears to be a "normal" line voltage reading between all phases to neutral - but not to earth or ground. It is still the best and the safest practice to bond the neutral to the frame of the generator set and also ensure that the generator set is also effectively grounded too. Your incoming utility service is only served with phases & neutral conductors - and no earthing or grounding conductor - as the neutral conductor of the service feeder is bonded twice - once on each end of the service feeder - on the utility side at the power transformer - and at the customer side - at the service entrance (meter and/or disconnect switch or main switchboard/panelboard or load center, where the main circuit breaker or disconnecting means exists... however - when designing or installing a provision for an auxiliary power source (such as a generator for emergency power) a transfer switch is recommended for complete isolation from the grid to prevent the dangerous condition of backfeeding the utility - and placing utility workers in danger upstream that are working on the power lines, as well as creating dangerous voltage potentials upon restoration of grid power after a power outage. The incorporation of a power transfer switch or an approved or listed circuit breaker interlocking mechanism is also required by the National Electrical Code (NFPA-70) to ensure safety and integrity of the installation. Separately derived neutrals are best by far - but requires a 3-pole (or a 4-pole for 3-phase-4-wire service) double-throw manual safety switch for typical 120/240 single-phase 3-wire electrical services, and they're more expensive than their 2-pole counterparts, of which will only offer a solidly connected neutral termination that is not separately derived or offering total isolation from the power grid during an outage. Ungrounded 3-phase-3-wire "delta" systems where the electrical system is intentionally ungrounded would be the exception to having a generator set without any grounding performed... although generator sets with 3-phase delta configured alternators are extremely rare... typically in a hospital setting - where a possible use for an ungrounded 480-volt, 3-wire "delta" service is utilized could use a large "WYE" to "DELTA" isolation power transformer installed between a generator set with a 3-phase-4-wire WYE alternator and the transfer switch for the ungrounded 480-volt "DELTA" electrical system. 3-phase generator sets are typically rated in kVA with a calculated power factor of 0.8 or 80%. Power transformers are also rated in kVA. 120/240v generator sets are typically rated in kW - whereas the power factor is 1.0 or 100%.

@buckaroundandfindout

3 жыл бұрын

Yep.

@riverflyswatter

3 жыл бұрын

dustin buck ask him ,”what time is it?” I dare ya. Hahaha

@ComplexOne

3 жыл бұрын

I swear i've seen this in a book/web somewhere before...

@jonwikstrom5564

3 жыл бұрын

I like you're vast knowledge BUT it's over my head thank you

@craigsetzer9726

3 жыл бұрын

In single phase does everything you mentioned above apply?

Kid, I'm an old timer. Your little presentation is one of the best demonstrations of this situation that I've ever seen. Well done and thank you

I needed a unit kzread.infoUgkxOTeIs0vv4_9B5hsmnLsk9r930uDQLu_Y that I could store in my home when I wasn't running, so it being light and running on propane were key requirements. I can store the propane tank/bottle outside yet store the generator in my home when it's not in use as I will never put any gas in the engine. It is so light, and on echo mode, which I expect is how it will be used most of the time, it is pretty darned quiet (certainly compared to all the generators I hear in my neighborhood after each power outage).Many of the previous reviews had me concerned that it would be difficult to start on propane, but I have to say, I had absolutely no problem at all. I primed it first using the choke...3 pulls, heard the engine want to start, flipped it to propane, and one more pull and she started. I ran it for 2 hours the first time and plugged it in my fridge. And when I was done, I put the propane tank away and carried the generator to my basement for next time.I could not be happier.

Of all the videos addressing the bonded versus floating neutral topic, yours is the most concise, to the point, and easy to understand. Translating knowledge into something that others can comprehend is not easy. Teaching is a skill, and you're a good teacher, Ben. Thanks.

I am a journeyman electrician and journeyman marine electrician but I like to watch how some else explains and do things, so that I learn something new.

I worked in the maintenance dept. of a hospital for 15 years. Working on all types of medical equipment. I have been to numerous service schools during that time. I just wanted to say that your videos and the way you explain things are better than any high priced service school that I ever attended. Keep up the good work!

You earned another subscriber. I've heard countless electricians and electrical engineers explain this very thing, but none of them really made me wrap my head around it the way you did. As you pointed out, this is a pretty confusing topic. Great video, Ben. Thanks!!

I tell ya. Extremely good, helpful. A way to present these things you have done. There are many of us here who can do these things and never understand what makes up the process. But many times over, there are people who do not understand it but really wanting to do. I say you are the man!

So much more scenic than the usual basement or garage breaker box video, and the light doesn't die out when the main breaker is switched off!

If you're going to use a generator as a stand alone power source at a campsite or construction site independent of grid power, you'd want your generator's neutral and ground bonded together. If you're going to use the generator as a backup power source for your home through a transfer switch (required), the generator would not be bonded internally. You'd run separate neutral and bond to the home's neutral and ground buss bars.

@scoutskills

3 жыл бұрын

^thits

@JohnRoesner

3 жыл бұрын

@@scoutskills But if you are attaching your generator to a transfer panel, and that transfer panel is a sub panel, sub panels don't have the bonding in them, as its your main panel that does. How should it be wired up then?

@scoutskills

3 жыл бұрын

@@JohnRoesner Only the main panel neutral and ground are bonded. The ground at the main panel is then tied to the earth to a stake in the ground or sometimes the water main pipe. The main panel has a high current two pole breaker for feeding the sub panel and the sub panel feeds the critical loads. In between the main panel and the sub panel is a two pole (DPDT) transfer switch. The generator and the sub panel have the bonding wires removed. The main panel earth ground is the ground for everything.

@CJforUSA

3 жыл бұрын

does ^thits mean cheap goods?? I know the slang meaning of 'thot' but seriously, I don't know what you meant by your reply '^thits'? Just curious.

@jasonjayalap

3 жыл бұрын

@@CJforUSA ^ is an up-arrow and thits is mispelling “this”. He means “what’s written above is true”

Good video. I will mention that a lot of if not most inverter generators use a floating neutral and are frequently used to power an RV. The RV also has a floating neutral and gets it neutral to ground bond through the RV park’s pedestal but a floating neutral generator will work fine. The electrons have to flow from the hot lead back to the neutral and vice versa for AC power. So if there is no earth (ground) bond to neutral you should find no difference of potential between the hot lead or neutral to ground so standing on the ground and touching the hot lead should not electrocute you. The problem would be if there were another neutral to ground or hot to ground somewhere else then you could get zapped when touching either lead while in contact with ground. Same with using an old metal cased drill on an extension cord on such a generator. If an internal short from hot to case happens there is still no source tied to ground so no difference of potential between the drill case and ground just case to neutral would cause current to flow so you should be ok. A three prong plug with the ground lead connected to the case and the ground lead actually connected to ground would be best. Now days I wouldn’t use a metal cased tool without a three prong plug. A plastic double insulated tool doesn’t need a ground pin. The floating neutral generator would operate, safety wise, similar to a battery operated drill. Neither terminal of the battery is going to ground so there is no voltage measured from either terminal to ground. So if you’re on the ground and touch either lead nothing happens. For another opinion: www.rvtravel.com/how-generator-neutral-ground-bonding-for-an-rv-works/

As an electrician of 30 plus years, you did an amazing job. Although people with little to no understanding of electrical systems may find it a bit frightening

I learn something new with every video you release, and it is greatly appreciated.

This video is right on time. Ben is a true guru.

That’s the best explanation I’ve seen on why we don’t want a floating ground Or non-bonded generator I have made up bonding plugs for mine

Electrical Knowledge: 10/10. Surrounding beauty of your house and property: 14/10.

Thanks for explaining that. I appreciate both views. I just finished watching a Generac generator installation that talked about only one box should be bonded and location of the bond. This was helpful since that video did not quite walk through both concepts independently.

Should have 1 million subscribers. You are so knowledgeable. I feel like maybe because you're so young that maybe some old timers don't take you serious enough, but little do they know how real intelligent you are.

@BenjaminSahlstrom

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks! Yeah, people would always ask me if I was still in high school while I was doing service calls! Hasn't happened for a couple of years though now. Must be my bald spot. :)

The neutrals on commercial vessels are always floating, this ensures that essential equipment will continue to operate. The switchboards have a three lamp system to identify ground faults. Safety ground is the ships hull..

@JasonW.

3 жыл бұрын

Is this also done to also keep electrolytic effects down?

@raymondgarafano8604

3 жыл бұрын

I take it that vessels use a 3 phase system?

@62chevrolet

3 жыл бұрын

Of course they’re floating, or it wouldn’t be a boat :p

@mkrawats

3 жыл бұрын

Interesting! Why neutral floating on commercial vessels? From what I have learned so far, the abyc standards recommend bonding neutral to ground when disconnected from shore power and running generator or inverter.

@lorenzo42p

2 жыл бұрын

a boat is itself a floating ground, never thought about it before. but being serious, what we're talking about is the generator itself having a floating ground. the boat/vessel I would assume has a bonded ground somewhere in the electrical system. I also assume there is a switch of some kind to unbond the neutral when connecting to shore power.

Tying the hot leg to the chassis of the generator only causes the Hot conductor and Grounded conductor to be swapped. That generator is designed to be used as an emergency power source for a home. Neutral and Ground should only be bonded in one location. Since they are bonded in the house this generator is perfectly fine, per electrical code to be used as an emergency home power source. Bonding the nuetral is not an absolute requirement. If you are powering a single device, such as a pump or power tool, it is not necessary. If you are powering a job site, with muliple connections, the bond will be made at the power distribution panel. Do not confuse the circuit breaker with a life protecting device, it only prevents the internal wiring from catching fire due to overload. If you are concerned with electric shock, use a Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter.

Maybe the best video on youtube explaining bonded versus floating neutral generator. I had an "master electrician" tell me that a bonded or floating neutral generator does not matter, all that does is the first means of disconnect needs to be bonded. I said no if you use a 3 pole transfer switch where it switches the neutral as well as the hots, the generator must be bonded with a ground rod attached, and he flat out said no. I know the research I've done and your video further reinforces things. "Everyone is an expert, the trick is to talk to the right expert! - anon

In case you were wondering what the glass of water is for, it is not for when you get thirsty. A pitcher or bucket of water would be better. You use the water to set the 8' ground rod. This is the hydraulic method. AFTER you call JULIE to mark your utilities... Don't rupture any utility lines. Determine where you want the ground rod, usually about 18" from your foundation to clear the building's footing. Dig a 10" diameter hole about 6" deep. Stab the rod into the ground at the bottom center of the hole and pull it out. Overfill the small hole with water. Put the rod back into the hole and stab it up and down, deeper with each stab. Pull rod back out and refill with water. Repeat until rod goes down the whole 8' with one stab to within 2" of the bottom of the ground hole. A hammer is not necessary. You can push the rod the final 2" just by stepping on it. You may need more than 1 glass of water. Most codes in the U.S. require the rod to be below the ground and covered with dirt and the solid ground conductor to be ran in pvc conduit all the way to ground level to defend against lawn mowers and weed whackers. And use the correct ground clamp. Get a copy of your local codes and diagrams from city or county clerk. The ground conductor has to be wired correctly according to local codes inside the meter base. Now go get a drink of water.

@ufartface

Жыл бұрын

i say go get a beer

@ContantContact

Жыл бұрын

I use a fence post driver (25-30#), because..well.. I have two). Providing you don't hit something, it goes in quickly. Use a heavy hammer when it gets close to the ground.

I'm a home inspector with 7 years experience and a degree in building construction. I know a decent amount about electricity, but I'm no electrician. I come to your videos to gain a greater understanding of these things. Keep it up!

@The_Happy_Aviation_Enthusiast

2 жыл бұрын

Don’t forget about the generator safety rules: Always make sure you follow all the generator safety rules whenever you use your portable generator. This is only a reminder. Generators can be dangerous if not used carefully. Every year, hundreds of people die or get injured when using portable generators due to carbon monoxide poisoning and electrocution. Make sure you are using your generator carefully and keeping others safe as well. There is something very serious that everyone should always be aware of when using generators. Some people do run their generator indoors which is not safe and that increases the risk of carbon monoxide poisoning which can cause death of family and you. Some people run their generator in wet conditions which can electrocute them. Please remember that you should never run your generator indoors. Remember that carbon monoxide is an odorless and colorless gas that you cannot see or smell. Carbon monoxide is a silent killer. Keep that in mind. Make sure your generator is 15-20 feet away from your house and away from doors, windows, and vents. Never use your generator in your porch too. Having a carbon monoxide detector is very important against generator safety. Some people also allow children to go near the portable generator which could pose risks. We need to keep an eye on our children making sure that they are not near the portable generator so they won’t get electrocuted or burned by the generator which is dangerous. A locking enclosure also keeps kids safe. A generator shed might look like a tempting place to explore, or take cover during a game of hide and seek, but a generator is a dangerous piece of equipment that can cause injury. It says on the manual that we should also keep children away at all times from the portable generator to avoid injuries. Please do not allow a child or unqualified people to operate the portable generator. It is important to keep your children safe especially little ones. The portable generator can be hot during an operation. Just because some manuals missed what should be listed doesn’t mean it’s safe to do. Always follow the generator safety rules when using portable generators. Generators pose electrical risks. If you need to use your generator during wet weather, you need a generator tent to protect your generator from getting wet. Don’t let your generator get wet. Keep your generator dry and before using your generator, please make sure your hands and your generator is dry. Do not wear loose clothing when operating the generator. Everything that is said on the generator’s operating manual should not be ignored. Never smoke cigarettes near the generator. Please keep flammable things away from the generator. Never overload your generator too. Your generator can catch fire. Never ever try to plug a generator cord into a wall outlet to avoid back feeding. Back feeding your generator is dangerous. Always turn on your generator first before plugging in appliances and shut off the appliances before turning your generator off. Use a heavy duty cord for your generator and the cord should not be worn out. All the instructions should be followed carefully. Never refuel your generator while it’s running. It can cause fire if fuel spills while your generator is hot. You should turn off your generator and let it cool off before refueling it. Having a fire extinguisher next to the generator is also important. This is only a reminder for everyone’s safety of using generators. Make sure your generator is properly grounded. Having a fire extinguisher next to the generator is also important against the safety rules. kzread.info/dash/bejne/e2WetpV6fqi0pqw.html and here is a video more about keeping others safe when using generators and also about our family’s safety. It’s important to keep our little children safe as well. Make sure your little children are kept away from the generator at all times especially when it’s running. Hope this helps.

@ianmiles2505

2 жыл бұрын

@@The_Happy_Aviation_Enthusiast this was generous advice.

Yup. This got me where I needed to be and… I’ll have to watch it a couple more times to fully understand it …. Now I know why my line conditioner doesn’t like my inverter generator…

I did a test run on my Champion Power Equipment 100520 8750-Watt DH Series Open Frame Inverter today. Number 1 problem is RFI. If you have AM Radios, then forget this generator. Champion includes statements regarding RFI interference in the manual. It must be due to the inverter. The RFI is not anywhere near as low as my 1990 Honda EX4500 which does not interfere with my AM radios. This Champion 100520 will not be replacing my EX4500. It will remain a good higher wattage back up.

You seriously saved my ass with this video; had I not just installed a new furnace, I would never have known that my generator hasn’t been grounded since I bought it...extremely frustrating, I was getting a Hot/Neu REV on my ground fault tester, it was actually flickering both sides of the tester. I showed your video to the repair guy for Ryobi, he didn’t have a clue either. He said these are dangerous to use with extension cords and was surprised that none of the books mention this from any manufacturer. In my opinion there should be a toggle switch to be able to use bonded or otherwise, as well as a clear explanation as to why you need bonded or floating. When my warranty is up, I am installing a toggle for this. Thanks for making this video, I did purchase one of those plugs from your link... Curious though, does just doing one plug fix all the plugs. The Ryobi dude said one should do it because they are all hooked together, but I thought I would ask. I have a Ryobi 4000 inverter. ROCK ON!

@Phat4040

3 жыл бұрын

UPDATE: I could not believe that this caused my generator failure. I bought the same generator and plugged it into the new generator and it worked perfectly. There must have been an internal issue with my other generator. It’s off to the shop to figure out what happened to it...My GMVC80 Goodman is working perfectly now as well as everything is grounded...THANK YOU! Your advice was sound and I now think that something was wrong with the other generator that the plug exposed. THIS METHOD YOU HAVE POSTED IS SOUND AND WORKS PERFECTLY. ------------------- I guess my praise was too soon. I heard a snap sound when I tried the plug recommended, and I heard a snap. And the engine kept running but slowed down 20% from idle. None of the circuit breakers snapped, but now there is no power from any plug and the engine knocks hard when I try to start it. 😕 Looks like this turned my generator into a paperweight. Very upset right now...I checked the plug to be sure it’s wired right and it is...no idea what happened. I was so convinced this was going to solve my issue, and now my inverter won’t start at all. Something seriously didn’t work well...

Just check continuity between the neutral plug and the ground plug on one of the outlets on the generator to determine if neutral is bonded or not.

@snap-off5383

2 жыл бұрын

He did.

@The_Happy_Aviation_Enthusiast

2 жыл бұрын

Don’t forget about the generator safety rules: Always make sure you follow all the generator safety rules whenever you use your portable generator. This is only a reminder. Generators can be dangerous if not used carefully. Every year, hundreds of people die or get injured when using portable generators due to carbon monoxide poisoning and electrocution. Make sure you are using your generator carefully and keeping others safe as well. There is something very serious that everyone should always be aware of when using generators. Some people do run their generator indoors which is not safe and that increases the risk of carbon monoxide poisoning which can cause death of family and you. Some people run their generator in wet conditions which can electrocute them. Please remember that you should never run your generator indoors. Remember that carbon monoxide is an odorless and colorless gas that you cannot see or smell. Carbon monoxide is a silent killer. Keep that in mind. Make sure your generator is 15-20 feet away from your house and away from doors, windows, and vents. Never use your generator in your porch too. Having a carbon monoxide detector is very important against generator safety. Some people also allow children to go near the portable generator which could pose risks. We need to keep an eye on our children making sure that they are not near the portable generator so they won’t get electrocuted or burned by the generator which is dangerous. A locking enclosure also keeps kids safe. A generator shed might look like a tempting place to explore, or take cover during a game of hide and seek, but a generator is a dangerous piece of equipment that can cause injury. It says on the manual that we should also keep children away at all times from the portable generator to avoid injuries. Please do not allow a child or unqualified people to operate the portable generator. It is important to keep your children safe especially little ones. The portable generator can be hot during an operation. Just because some manuals missed what should be listed doesn’t mean it’s safe to do. Always follow the generator safety rules when using portable generators. Generators pose electrical risks. If you need to use your generator during wet weather, you need a generator tent to protect your generator from getting wet. Don’t let your generator get wet. Keep your generator dry and before using your generator, please make sure your hands and your generator is dry. Do not wear loose clothing when operating the generator. Everything that is said on the generator’s operating manual should not be ignored. Never smoke cigarettes near the generator. Please keep flammable things away from the generator. Never overload your generator too. Your generator can catch fire. Never ever try to plug a generator cord into a wall outlet to avoid back feeding. Back feeding your generator is dangerous. Always turn on your generator first before plugging in appliances and shut off the appliances before turning your generator off. Use a heavy duty cord for your generator and the cord should not be worn out. All the instructions should be followed carefully. Never refuel your generator while it’s running. It can cause fire if fuel spills while your generator is hot. You should turn off your generator and let it cool off before refueling it. Having a fire extinguisher next to the generator is also important. This is only a reminder for everyone’s safety of using generators. Make sure your generator is properly grounded. Having a fire extinguisher next to the generator is also important against the safety rules. kzread.info/dash/bejne/e2WetpV6fqi0pqw.html and here is a video more about keeping others safe when using generators and also about our family’s safety. It’s important to keep our little children safe as well. Make sure your little children are kept away from the generator at all times especially when it’s running. Hope this helps. This is only a safety reminder

I'm glad you mentioned "exclusively with extension cords". Running thru a transfer switch kinda cancels the worry out

Binge watching your videos ever since I found them looking for an explanation of bonding. Clear video, precise definitions and explanations, overall great quality. Keep up the good work! Will be purchasing the bonding jumper plug after the video. I have a generator that I am going to need that for.

@The_Happy_Aviation_Enthusiast

2 жыл бұрын

Generator safety rules: Always make sure you follow all the generator safety rules whenever you use your portable generator. This is only a reminder. Generators can be dangerous if not used carefully. Every year, hundreds of people die or get injured when using portable generators due to carbon monoxide poisoning and electrocution. Make sure you are using your generator carefully and keeping others safe as well. There is something very serious that everyone should always be aware of when using generators. Some people do run their generator indoors which is not safe and that increases the risk of carbon monoxide poisoning which can cause death of family and you. Some people run their generator in wet conditions which can electrocute them. Please remember that you should never run your generator indoors. Remember that carbon monoxide is an odorless and colorless gas that you cannot see or smell. Carbon monoxide is a silent killer. Keep that in mind. Make sure your generator is 15-20 feet away from your house and away from doors, windows, and vents. Never use your generator in your porch too. Having a carbon monoxide detector is very important against generator safety. Some people also allow children to go near the portable generator which could pose risks. We need to keep an eye on our children making sure that they are not near the portable generator so they won’t get electrocuted or burned by the generator which is dangerous. A locking enclosure also keeps kids safe. A generator shed might look like a tempting place to explore, or take cover during a game of hide and seek, but a generator is a dangerous piece of equipment that can cause injury. It says on the manual that we should also keep children away at all times from the portable generator to avoid injuries. Please do not allow a child or unqualified people to operate the portable generator. It is important to keep your children safe especially little ones. The portable generator can be hot during an operation. Just because some manuals missed what should be listed doesn’t mean it’s safe to do. Always follow the generator safety rules when using portable generators. Generators pose electrical risks. If you need to use your generator during wet weather, you need a generator tent to protect your generator from getting wet. Don’t let your generator get wet. Keep your generator dry and before using your generator, please make sure your hands and your generator is dry. Do not wear loose clothing when operating the generator. Everything that is said on the generator’s operating manual should not be ignored. Never smoke cigarettes near the generator. Please keep flammable things away from the generator. Never overload your generator too. Your generator can catch fire. Never ever try to plug a generator cord into a wall outlet to avoid back feeding. Back feeding your generator is dangerous. Always turn on your generator first before plugging in appliances and shut off the appliances before turning your generator off. Use a heavy duty cord for your generator and the cord should not be worn out. All the instructions should be followed carefully. Never refuel your generator while it’s running. It can cause fire if fuel spills while your generator is hot. You should turn off your generator and let it cool off before refueling it. Having a fire extinguisher next to the generator is also important. This is only a reminder for everyone’s safety of using generators. Make sure your generator is properly grounded. Having a fire extinguisher next to the generator is also important against the safety rules. kzread.info/dash/bejne/e2WetpV6fqi0pqw.html and here is a video more about keeping others safe when using generators and also about our family’s safety. It’s important to keep our little children safe as well. Make sure your little children are kept away from the generator at all times especially when it’s running. Hope this helps.

I watched hours of videos and no one explained how to use a generator as a back up using interlock! Thank you Ben! Happy Fathers Day

I rarely add comments, but this was a great video for such a challenging subject. Thank you for taking the time to explain. I would have really enjoyed seeing this video 3 months ago when I installed a Reliance Controls 10 Circuit 30Amp Generator Transfer Switch and bought a Westinghouse 6500 Watt Gas/Propane Bonded Generator. After many days of research and some hair loss, I went ahead and switched the generator over to a Floating Neutral and labeled generator for others to be aware. This video confirms my research. Keep up the good work and sharing the knowledge.

@BenjaminSahlstrom

4 жыл бұрын

I think what matters is how the switching is done. Some transfer switches also switch the neutral in which case you would want the generator to remain bonded. An easy way to check would be to see if there is continuity between the neutral and ground on the generator cord before plugging it into the generator. I need to learn more about it but something Mike Holt said the other day made it sound like some types of transfer switches allow for the generator neutral to remain bonded.

@adhambarghi

3 жыл бұрын

​@@BenjaminSahlstrom That is correct, some transfer switches automatically switch the neutral and in that case you want to have your generator set up with a bonded neutral. I called the Reliance manufacture and my transfer switch works with a floating neutral on the generator. I only use this generator for house power only and it is labeled "Floating Neutral". I also added a label "Generator for House Power Only" because when I took a survey NO one knew what "Floating Neutral" meant.

@bigpardner

3 жыл бұрын

@@BenjaminSahlstrom Is it safe to say that the generator should always be bonded, but only in one place? Although at 25:50 didn't you do just that, bond in two places?

@fyuecd2

3 жыл бұрын

@@adhambarghi I would think if you were using this for house power only you would want your generator to be bonded. If a metal frame appliance shorts to ground inside your house the breaker on the generator will not trip.

@adhambarghi

3 жыл бұрын

@@fyuecd2 The transfer switch box will trip a breaker for the shorted metal frame appliance in our example. Hope this helps.

Thank you brother! Your channel is a life saver. Love your and your viewers comments. Gratefully.

On some Champion duel voltage generators they use a floating neutral and a multi contact switch to parallel both 120 vac windings to increase the amperage for the 30 amp 120 vac socket for campers and small RV's. So if you would bond ground to neutral with the switch to 120 vac you would get a direct short. When the switch is at the 240 vac setting the switch also bonds the neutral of one side of the 120vac winding to ground. With that being said most of the Chinese generators come out of the same major factory. So they don't have a bonded neutral. Remember China home power is 220 vac. So split phase is not used.

And for those about to buy a generator, 1st thing I would do is check to see if the panel your tapping into is bonded or not. If yes then get a gen with floating neutral. If not then get bonded neutral generator. Or you can just get a bonded neutral generator and unbond it if you need to.

@BenjaminSahlstrom

4 жыл бұрын

If you are connecting via an interlocked breaker then you really always want a floating neutral generator regardless of if the panel you are connecting to us bonded or not. Sub panels are not bonded but up stream they are fed from a main panel that IS bonded so either way you want a floating neutral UNLESS you connect the generator via a switch that also switches the neutral. Confusing as ever. Ha.

This would be the same as an isolation transformer. Depending on some applications and circumstances, isolating power systems is a good thing sometimes. Bonding the genset chassis and the building electrode is required if the neutral is tied to the genset/grounding rod. I think a floating neutral is not actually floating because it's not actually neutral if it is isolated. It's just a secondary of a transformer (Not an autotransformer) . If a shorting fault occurs in the windings or other fault occurs, it could be lethal. Either way, bonding the genset chassis to the building electrode is required. If worms start flying out of the soil, don't go near and RUN!

Yes I am a electrician myself and I do find your videos interesting just explaining electricity and trying to put it into simple terms alot of people have a issue with it because they haven't had the schooling or training.

Great video Ben, thanks for being so thorough in the explanations and experiments

You are a great teacher. Not even my EE professors in college explained the subject as well. Love the examples.

@rmac6420

Жыл бұрын

Might as well be one. So confusing!

Sounds like a lot of us are trying to do the same thing. Run most of the house with a generator connected to the main (or sub) panel. Using a generator in the 6500 to 6500 running wattage range, they mostly appear to be a bonded neutral generator. The problem becomes when hooking it up thru the 240V 30 amp plug to a main panel that’s got a bonding screw which would trip GFCI breakers. I believe one solution is to modify the bonded neutral generator to a floating neutral ( and label appropriately). If you later wanted to use the other plugs or use it as a stand alone generator, you could use a neutral to ground plug into one of the 120V plugs to convert it back to a bonded neutral generator. Did I get it right?

@bramcoteelectrical1088

2 ай бұрын

Yes that is correct😊

Thank you for the video. You helped me understand the grounding options enough to fix my new generator tripping the GFCI breaker. Thanks again !!

Ben I have a Champion 3500 watt floating ground generator. Using extension cords to power up my furnace, it will run the fan, but has red lights on the power processor. A local electrician had me drive a ground rod for the generator, and a ground rod for the LP furnace. Furnace still would not make the LP light. Another electrician told me to take a ground 15 amp plug in, take 6” of #18 green wire. Connect 1 end of the wire to the silver- neutral prong, the other end to the ground prong. Plug it into the 120 volt plug in on the generator. Now the generator runs my LP furnace! Hello from north east Montana. 10 miles from the Canadian border.

In that configuration you are sending current through the neutral, through the ground wire, and through the soil itself. You have a connection from the neutral to the ground on the generator to the ground on your disconnect. Some of the current will be flowing through the dirt. If your generator is close enough to the panel and you touched both then some of the current would flow through you! If your wiring is good this will not be much but if your connection was faulty you might be the path of least resistance. Leave it unbonded!

@The_Happy_Aviation_Enthusiast

2 жыл бұрын

Don’t forget about the generator safety rules: Always make sure you follow all the generator safety rules whenever you use your portable generator. This is only a reminder. Generators can be dangerous if not used carefully. Every year, hundreds of people die or get injured when using portable generators due to carbon monoxide poisoning and electrocution. Make sure you are using your generator carefully and keeping others safe as well. There is something very serious that everyone should always be aware of when using generators. Some people do run their generator indoors which is not safe and that increases the risk of carbon monoxide poisoning which can cause death of family and you. Some people run their generator in wet conditions which can electrocute them. Please remember that you should never run your generator indoors. Remember that carbon monoxide is an odorless and colorless gas that you cannot see or smell. Carbon monoxide is a silent killer. Keep that in mind. Make sure your generator is 15-20 feet away from your house and away from doors, windows, and vents. Never use your generator in your porch too. Having a carbon monoxide detector is very important against generator safety. Some people also allow children to go near the portable generator which could pose risks. We need to keep an eye on our children making sure that they are not near the portable generator so they won’t get electrocuted or burned by the generator which is dangerous. A locking enclosure also keeps kids safe. A generator shed might look like a tempting place to explore, or take cover during a game of hide and seek, but a generator is a dangerous piece of equipment that can cause injury. It says on the manual that we should also keep children away at all times from the portable generator to avoid injuries. Please do not allow a child or unqualified people to operate the portable generator. It is important to keep your children safe especially little ones. The portable generator can be hot during an operation. Just because some manuals missed what should be listed doesn’t mean it’s safe to do. Always follow the generator safety rules when using portable generators. Generators pose electrical risks. If you need to use your generator during wet weather, you need a generator tent to protect your generator from getting wet. Don’t let your generator get wet. Keep your generator dry and before using your generator, please make sure your hands and your generator is dry. Do not wear loose clothing when operating the generator. Everything that is said on the generator’s operating manual should not be ignored. Never smoke cigarettes near the generator. Please keep flammable things away from the generator. Never overload your generator too. Your generator can catch fire. Never ever try to plug a generator cord into a wall outlet to avoid back feeding. Back feeding your generator is dangerous. Always turn on your generator first before plugging in appliances and shut off the appliances before turning your generator off. Use a heavy duty cord for your generator and the cord should not be worn out. All the instructions should be followed carefully. Never refuel your generator while it’s running. It can cause fire if fuel spills while your generator is hot. You should turn off your generator and let it cool off before refueling it. Having a fire extinguisher next to the generator is also important. This is only a reminder for everyone’s safety of using generators. Make sure your generator is properly grounded. Having a fire extinguisher next to the generator is also important against the safety rules. kzread.info/dash/bejne/e2WetpV6fqi0pqw.html and here is a video more about keeping others safe when using generators and also about our family’s safety. It’s important to keep our little children safe as well. Make sure your little children are kept away from the generator at all times especially when it’s running. Hope this helps. Stay safe

Nice job. Recognize most of your subscribers are going to be diy guys without NEC knowledge or tech background. They will be using the local box store tools and need to see those very tools in action. Hope you see 100k in less than a month. New vid every week will do it!

Thanks for the info. As of this writing we have a tropical storm approaching and I've thought that I had it all ready. Turns out that maybe not. Going to check that as soon as I post this. Also sharing this video with my brother in law. I'm no electrician, just a HVAC tech and this was very informative and thorough. Once again thanks.

It's always very interesting, helpful and well done when you post a video. Thanks.

You can bond the neutral to the ground case, thus bonding it, however a fault within generator that would put voltage on neutral, would then put it to case for sure, even with ground rod. A GFCI protected transfer switch would require a non bonded neutral, which may be the reason they did this so the GFCI would trip.

@waynecram2021

Жыл бұрын

this... is why I hire an electrician. bond.. neutral... ground case.. fault... voltage on neutral.. ground rod... non-bonded neutral. my god... hire an expert, says me. :)

Hello Ben, Thanks again, good video, difficult subject. I have a 7.2Kw continuous duty generator that was bonded by default when I purchased it. I intended to use it primarily as backup power for my home. The bonding was done inside the generator cover which I promptly disconnected. Occasionally, this generator is used in standalone mode (not supplying power into a system with its own bonding) and at these times it should be bonded. I considered two solutions to solve this problem. The first was to install a toggle switch on the generator which could control bonding on/off. The second was to construct a short extension cord (

@snap-off5383

2 жыл бұрын

So a 3 conductor connection to the panel would work just as well right, and in that case you would WANT it bonded so that your generator case has continuity to ground?

@deanrhodenizer938

2 жыл бұрын

@@snap-off5383 Here’s my take on this… For the backup power example, you still want all four wires in your connection from the generator to the panel. You just don’t want any bonding done in the generator for this use case. Instead, you let that bonding occur in the panel in your house. Then the ground wire that runs from the generator to the panel does not carry any neutral current that it shouldn’t be carrying.

@snap-off5383

2 жыл бұрын

@@deanrhodenizer938 ideally yes, practically, in many cases someone is going to have a 3 prong welder receptacle with perfectly adequate 6 gauge conductors and want to use it on "emergency basis" to backfeed (me). Lacking the 4th conductor, a user *would* want the bond at the generator, to set the chassis potential equal to ground potential. So in the case the chassis gets shorted hot, it trips the breaker immediately instead of waiting for a grounded human to touch it. In that case there is no grounding conductor to be conducting any electricity, its just two hots, one neutral, all of the neutral and chassis being at ground potential due to the bond in the box.

@snap-off5383

2 жыл бұрын

@@deanrhodenizer938 OK turns out I'm wrong, if bonded the ground ITSELF can become a fault path back to source, whereas if the generator is floating neutral and case-grounded the only fault path back to source is down the main neutral, not through the ground or a person happening to touch the case and the service panel. So even with a 3 wire config, you'd want to float the neutral, and copper-stake the generator ground.

Hey excellent video tutorial. I work in a small engine shop and there’s a lot of people with Chinese generators out there. Everyone with a generator should watch your video.

Really appreciate the video in Bringing together the theory and practical side of electrical engineering

Good video and very informative. Generator companies should advise which system is needed based on the intended usage, and provide an easy way (switch or connector) to select bonded or unbonded on their products. Thanks Ben for the great information and I love your farm.

I’m an Electrical Contractor just like to say you did a great job on the video.

I did a bunch of research on all this stuff then I found your video, thumbs up well done and thanks for the demonstrations! Best video I found on this!

Question? If you only have a bonded generator what would be the issue of just omitting the ground connection in the four prong generator cord and using the ground/natural bond at the main panel. Wouldn’t this allow current to travel back on the neutral just as it dose for the utility connection? Great video btw!

Another thing that could happen if the generator and utility power are connected at the same time is that the generator could catch on fire as the generator and utility power will not be in sync or phase with each other. There has been fires because of this. In solar systems there are grid-tie inverters that match up with the utility power.

@BenjaminSahlstrom

4 жыл бұрын

I wondered about that while editing the video. It's amazing that they can sync all of the different power generation systems to the same 60hz frequency on the grid.

@JoshuaBlomberg

3 жыл бұрын

@@BenjaminSahlstrom I imagine most frequency-matching systems in grid-tie converters are based around the zero-cross detector, which is basically a full-wave rectifier feeding into an opto-isolator (which is basically an LED matched with a photosensor inside an integrated circuit housing); LED on means the phase is not zero (or 180, which is functionally the same once you've used a full-wave rectifier), which shows up on the opto-isolator's output, so LED off means no current, which means the phase is at zero. A lot of electronic lighting dimmers (not the knobs or sliders or whatever but the bigger ones used for theaters or offices or industrial buildings or what have you, or even the ones you can get off of Amazon for like $100) use a zero-cross detector to trigger pulse-width modulation on the live line (by way of a TRIAC, generally) going out of the dimmer, thereby chopping off part of the wave proportional to whatever percentage the dimmer is told to use. With an incandescent light, the thermal inertia of the filament allows it to continue emitting light during the portion of the phase where the modulation has turned off the current (the curve of light emission compared to time-powered-on is enough the same between various makes and models of incandescent lamps that a compensating curve can be programmed into either the control computers or directly into the dimmers themselves). However, LED fixtures do not have the same sort of carry-over during the point of the phase where the current is shut off, which is why they tend to flicker (also, they require a certain voltage before turning on at all).

@Honestandtruth

Жыл бұрын

@@BenjaminSahlstrom Hello Benjamin......... Do you know what is the THD=Total Harmonic Distortion of Duromax Generator ❓❓

Great Video Benjamin.....I'm planning on installing a portable generator on my house for unplanned power outages and this video was spot on. I'm looking at several brand name hybrid generators (8.5-10KW) using a manual transfer switch.

I have this generator I have used this when the power is out ! 12 hrs no problem

I could have been killed back in September because an electrician got the generator panel wrong!!! Get the bonding/flloating wrong and the generator frame becomes live and you get 120 volts between earth and the generator frame. I grabbed the generator frame to move it slightly in its little building to get the exhaust to point outward and I got zapped. Had I not been wearing safety boots I probably would be dead. I took the meter and put one lead in the dirt and one on the generator frame and got a solid 120 volts. It's crucial to get it right!!!!!!!!

@pierredoucet4556

3 жыл бұрын

agree... see my post 4 days ago

@Veritas-invenitur

3 жыл бұрын

Your not going to be getting anything from sticking your probe into the ground.

Could a generator be designed with a switch of some sort to toggle between bonded and floating neutral? And if so how much current capacity should it be capable of handling?

@bramcoteelectrical1088

2 ай бұрын

It could but my feelings are the manufacturers either dont want the liabilities.

Most portable generators sold in Canada are with the neutral bonded to frame I believe. The manual transfer switches we install have specific instructions about the ground and neutral as it relates to the generator used (if in fact it is bonded to frame or floating etc)

Thanks Benjamin for helping us with your knowledge!

It is spooky to find a floating neutral in a consumer product. That completely removes the protection of a safety ground wire for any appliance plugged directly into the generator. CE and CSA are labelled on the frame, but evidently the authorities who approved this didn't look beyond the schematic. They should have bonded it, with documentation available to disconnect the bond for those few who plan to feed a main panel.

@BenjaminSahlstrom

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly.

@ScottsSynthStuff

3 жыл бұрын

The vast majority of Chinese products with CSA/UL labels did not actually pass testing and are not certified - the manufacturers apply those stickers fraudulently.

@Wuety06

3 жыл бұрын

well.. for most products on mains yes.. but using this Gen with extension cords.. idk you would need a situation where one half is on frame shorted to h and another hand is on frame electric ly isolated from first part of frame but conductive to other wire.. kinda odd circumstances. cause floating just grabbing hot shouldn't do anything. it's not ground refed. dry unbroken skin is 100k ohms. add 30ft of dirt and even if not well isolated.. ie there is a Gen head path to dirt from n... not much current is going to flow. do the math on just skin resistance and 120. isolation transformers are pretty standard in med environments and electronics test benches.. and I thought they were still mentioning one arm rule to electricians and well it works better with isolation it's still not a bad rule in general

I just discovered MIKE HOLT he is the end word on grounding watch him thks .

@bramcoteelectrical1088

2 ай бұрын

He's mega😊

Can't get enough your videos. Great explanation!

A wealth of great information. Excellent videos all around. Definitely subbed. Thanks. 👍

Ok, I am convinced you know your stuff; but I must admit after watching, I still don't know how to hook up my generator correctly.😢

@miket8376

3 жыл бұрын

I too have to agree with you! Questions I now have after watching Benjamins “Very Descriptive” video = But I am confused??? If your generator is Bonded, and you hook up to the homes circuit panel (which in most cases may have a bonded (with ground) Neutral, what do you do? What are you supposed to do then? Do you have to “Unbond” the generator, or is it ok to leave it alone? One thing I think I understood, is if your generator is NOT bonded, and you want to use power directly from the generator with an extension cord to say power a component directly, take an old cord: tie the ground and neutral together, cover the hot wire and plug it into an empty receptacle on the generator - and now the generator is bonded. Is that correct? But to just repeat my confusion and need an answer to the question that remains, if my generator IS bonded, and I DO hook up to the homes Circuit Panel, do I have to Unbond my generator, and How would I do that?

@olegig5166

3 жыл бұрын

@@miket8376 man I feel your pain. You should ask someone besides me. Maybe a local electrician. On the other hand might search KZread for generator bonding. I know of some who buy a male plug end and internally make a jumper from ground to neutral.

@williammaldonado6132

Жыл бұрын

May I suggest that you download the entire course (video) 👌

24:50 WIFE: Hey the electric power is OFF AGAIN

It's not the documentation, it's the translation someone has to sit down and take it from whatever Chinese dialect it was originally produced in and convert that to English. I have worked for a Japanese company, and the manuals were crazy. But there you have it. There's my 2 cents. Thank you for your video. Merry Christmas. Thomas

This happened a few years back installing a generac transfer kit to a residence, after wiring everything up correctly when going to test everything , first tested utility side and everything was good, then for a simulated power outage and running from the generator, since the generator was set up with a OSHA type bonded neutral/ground it would trip the breaker on the generator becuase of the multiple pathways for the bonded neutral and ground in the main panel, the manufacture did have a solution wich was to instal a neutral switch kit, but, being a older home there was a possibilty of shared neutrals which would cuase a almost simular situation, solution was to have a generator that has a floating neutral so that it would not trip out it's own breaker.

Great video and I learned something new: bonded neutral. The only thing that slightly bothers me is the jab that the generator is from China. Duromax is based in California and designs their generators in the USA and outsources production overseas. Duromax has a responsibility to make sure units are quality controled to their design spec as well as making sure their manuals are also correct. Duromax is 100% at fault here. In addition, basically all Honda generators are made in China.

@ianmiles2505

2 жыл бұрын

I am not in the USA and I have the same generator albeit with a different name. They are Chinese.

Great video, Ben...Subscribed due to your knowledge and clear delivery in layman's term. I just got my 5000 watts gen made by A-ipower (4250 watts running), and tested the receptacles as you demonstrated...The panel said that they are bonded neutral, but I tested them and found that only the 120/240V L14-30R is bonded, while the four 5-20R are not. I am baffled. 1). Do you know why this is so? The electric schematic diagram clearly showed that all four 120V receptacles and the 240V receptacle have neutral wires connected together and to the ground. 2). If I hook this unit using extension cords separately from the main panel to my 120V appliances or tools, will there be a problem, being a floating neutral 120V receptacles? 3). As you mentioned, a bonded neutral(240V in this case) may be used for the interlock back feed (current in the ground is small?), does this mean you will need to set up a ground bar/line to the gen panel's ground connector? 4). The interlock back feed is a safe way to ensure that there is no chance of making a mistake for the main power switch. To my understanding, what is the difference between this and the one people hook the 120/240V L14-30 line to the 240V dryer receptacle, when the main power switch is off and taped over (no chance to activated it)? Thanks in advance for your help...

@BillyBobDingledorf

2 жыл бұрын

Did you test with the breaker on?

@NoName-sx4cz

Жыл бұрын

The difference with an interlock and back feeding by taping the main breaker off is if you get caught doing it you won't be able to get utility power again. They will cut you off. Also if a fire happens in your house that's electrically related during use of a backfeed cord without a proper interlock you can bet they won't cover the damages. Don't do it. Just get an interlock/transfer switch, or use extension cords. People make mistakes under stress, and the mistake of backfeeding lines during an outage is just too much risk to take for yourself and utility linemen.

@slchang01

Жыл бұрын

@@NoName-sx4cz thanks for the info. It's been a while since I asked the question, and I bought a Predator generator instead from Harbor Freight., 4350 watts/3500 watts. I acturally tested the backfeeding once with it, and no problem to feed my two refrigerators and one small chest freezer, plus my internet modem and router with LED lighting when I needed them. Taping the main switch off with all the 240 volts breakers off except the dryer breaker. Someone used/suggested interlock device, which is the same as taping mechanism, though with a seperate line/240V outlet to backfeeding. What is the difference between the two methods? Using extension cords look easy, but you need to get several long cables runing around for each devices that a located far away, it can be problematic/messy as well.

Great video. Clear and concise. Thank you

Very informative & confirming my studies, thanks.

I like the focus of your video which is mainly safety . I feel I need to draw attention to what occurred when the circuit breaker tripped. It tripped due to over current. it is probably rated at around 30 Amps (depends on the power of the generator) You had the Neutral and Ground wires connected together and hence the Neutral was connected to the frame of the generator . You then touched the Live to the frame effectively causing a short between Live and Neutral. It is important to understand the difference between types of circuit breakers. The circuit breaker on the generator will trip when excess current is drawn and is there to protect equipment , the generator and wiring . Sadly it will probably not trip in time to save human life in the event of electrocution. The circuit breaker called an Earth Leakage circuit breaker is fitted on distribution boards and these are to protect human beings [and /or animals :-) ]. from electrocution. At AC voltages of 110 and 220 volts it takes very little current to cause a fatal shock - around as little as thirty milliamps ( 30mA) So the mechanism inside the Earth leakage breaker detects this tiny difference between the Live and Neutral and will trip. Okay why ? The current flowing in the Live going out to an appliance must be the same current that flows back through to neutral and ultimately back to the power station. If it is not ,it means that the current is finding another path back to the power station through ground. Or put another way , if an unlucky individual were to touch the Live wire ( or what Americans call the Hot lead ) then the current would use their body to find an alternative path to ground . If this happens there will be an imbalance in the current in Live and Neutral and the Earth leakage circuit breaker will trip in time to save the hapless individual. If we were to rely on just the overcurrent circuit breaker to save us , then we would be required to endure approx 30 A for several seconds before current were interrupted . Our demise would occur long before then . There are several videos on KZread that explain this far better and in more detail than I have . I hope this helps.

So, in other words. The bonded neutral generator that I use for my house when the power's out (through an interlock breaker, as yours) needs to be a floating neutral? But if I take same generator out to a jobsite to run power tools, it needs to be a bonded neutral to be safe?

@BenjaminSahlstrom

4 жыл бұрын

Technically, yes. But as I mentioned I wouldn't be too concerned if you're interlock breaker is connected to your main panel where the neutrals and grounds are bonded. With the bonded neutral generator that you have there will just be a small amount of neutral current on the ground wire in your generator cord and, though it's technically not right, I doubt it would ever cause any issues.

@jjdj92

3 жыл бұрын

@@BenjaminSahlstrom Question? i have a duromax 10000EH, which states it has a floating neutral. i have continuity from the neutral to the ground/frame. So this means the neutral and ground are bonded at the unit and because the the ground and neutral are indeed bonded at the generator making it a "floating neutral" do you eliminate the ground at the twist lock receptacle that goes back to the main sub panel? I smoked my ground contacts on my 4 wire receptacle and duromax said that having the ground connected at the receptacle as well as a neutral conductor creates a "power loop" thus allowing a stray current to flow on an alternate circular path and this is what smoked my plug on the ground contact. Essentially, the two line leads 240/120V support power, the neutral and ground are bonded to return the unbalanced load on any 120V circuits and you need a bonded ground to an earth path to a rod in the ground connected to the chassis bond lug that will carry shorts that the neutral cant handle thus this is how it needs to be wired for proper safety... would you agree? in your previous video i saw you install a ground wire on your plug and it worked because you generator was not actually bonded to neutral. make sense?

@BenjaminSahlstrom

3 жыл бұрын

@@jjdj92 Confusing as ever isn't it! If you have a floating neutral then there should be NO continuity between neutral and ground while the generator is disconnected from your system. If there is continuity then you somehow have your neutral and ground bonded together at the generator and you may need to remove that cover as I did to see if there is a jumper installed. If so then just remove it to make it a floating neutral generator then your issues should be solved. Grounding the generator is unnecessary in my opinion especially when connecting the generator to a system through an interlocked backfed breaker. I'm going to make a video explaining this hopefully soon. Interesting to hear when Duromax said regarding the current loop. I'm surprised that it could actually fry your plug though. Let me know what you find out.

@JasonW.

3 жыл бұрын

With a 10kva generator, it is probably using a 50a plug. If 4 wire 50a, like L14-50, that plug cable is probably 3x 6ga and 1x 10ga for ground. That would fry the 10a ground wire if it somehow took an unbalanced load, anything 35a (30a NEC) or more would overload the wire, 50a might burn it.

@toddlaroche5831

3 жыл бұрын

Jason, when your plug smoked, did you have a ground rod attached to the grounding terminal on the generator panel?

Thank You! Great video, very informative and perfectly do for hands-on people like myself. I have this exact generator; Now I can keep my children safer in an emergency use situation.

Thank You so much. This is exactly the information I was looking for, so I have the same setup you have with my inlet box connected to a circuit breaker and the metal interlock plate. I just need to find an unbonded generator. Thank you again keep up the great work.

Ben: the worms in that field are pushing up the crop.

@BenjaminSahlstrom

4 жыл бұрын

Ha, no kidding!! The corn is going wild this year and is taller than average for this time of the year in Southwest Minnesota.

@RameshPatel-cb9yc

4 жыл бұрын

Lol that is true .....

@JasonW.

3 жыл бұрын

It's all that blue earth making the corn grow. Soybeans are on a sprint too this year.

@ron827

3 жыл бұрын

@@JasonW. In agreement from Blue Earth County, MN.

@thedaddechannel

3 жыл бұрын

Little late to this: When I was a kid we had something we'd 'hunt' nightcrawlers with. Seems it was electric and we'd stick it in the ground, like an old TV picture tube anode tester but homemade. Don't remember a cord tho. But oh man, up thru the ground came every nightcrawler around it and we'd be grabbin' em. Alive to tell. What the heck?

8:32 It's not open lead... It's over load or limit. _"OL - Overload (the reading exceeds the display range)"_

@BenjaminSahlstrom

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you. I assumed that it was for "open lead" but should have researched that first. Thanks again for informing me.

@WeatherNut27

4 жыл бұрын

Nope. It's not overload. It's Open Line. there's no continuity, there's no path for electric current to flow from one probe to the other.

@ksdavey1

4 жыл бұрын

@@BenjaminSahlstrom just because in the Fluke manuals they call 'O.L' Overload, does not mean the manufacturer of your meter is using the same. That said, in ohms mode, if the reading is so high that the meter thinks the leads are not even touching anything, an Open Lead would be what it thinks is the problem. So would a very high ohmic value, with the leads not see anything, be an Overload, or an infinite reading, or no reading at all. Hmmmm . I've always called it an open, just plain open. Benjamin, keep up the good work.

@BYENZER

3 жыл бұрын

NO. NO. NO. Nuclear Weapons trained technician here. OL means OUT OF LIMITS. As in, the meter function, currently selected, cannot handle, (too high or too low)/read what is currently being input to the meter.

@xephael3485

3 жыл бұрын

@@BenjaminSahlstrom It's Overload, I have books older than anyone posting here that document that😂. Even Dave from EEVblog (electrical engineer) agree...

Hi Ben I had a very nice Cat 2200 generator that was neutral bonded.. I have an interlock and before had a Honda 2000 that was not neutral bonded.. It worked great with the interlock.. On the twist lock I tied the Xand Y together so as to get both sides of the panel.. Worked great until my son wanted it back as it was his.. I then bought a Cat 2200 and it was neutral was bonded to ground. Kicked the GFCI every time.. I very quickly found that the Generator was seeing too many or so grounds.. Went out and bought a Honda 2200 without the GFCI.. Now Ok again.. Also if you use the 30 amp instead on any large unit it works fine even if the unit has GFCI receptacles.. Thanks for the great video again

Beautiful presentation! Got it in one. Subscribed.

Wow, I was in the midst of buying a firearm light as well!

@BenjaminSahlstrom

4 жыл бұрын

Sweet! The Odin is an excellent product. Great warranty too. What lights were you considering?

@dakoderii4221

3 жыл бұрын

Firearms are dangerous. TV god told me they grow legs at night and kill people. They weigh more than "10 moving boxes". AR's fire ".50 cal bullets" at the rate of "100 clips per second".

@JasonW.

3 жыл бұрын

@@dakoderii4221 no, they shoot clipozines at rates unable to be scientifically tested

@petebovenzi8119

3 жыл бұрын

Hilarious ! My NY compliant AR14 holds a pinned ten round magazine clip that I can readily convert to 11 . Lord help us all . Thank's Uncle Andrew Cuomo , for keeping us all safe ...

and that is the very reason the old electric tools went from metal cases to plastic cases and invented the GFCI. Too many guys getting fried.

@petersack5074

3 жыл бұрын

PLASTIC.....MORE modern junk.....gears in the garage door opener on the roof, plastic gears....absolutely mindless engineers....$$ for parts, but, NOT FROM THIS GUY.....

Very well presented. Thank you.

Amazing in depth video on this. Thanks! @12:46 for those that dont get it... you would get shocked by touching the generator with that situation. The metal parts were live with voltage

@cedricpomerleau5586

3 жыл бұрын

Not really. The phase was grounded and assuming your body touch the ground too, both are at the same potential and you're safe. The real danger with that situation is that now the neutral is 120V relative to the ground. Assuming again that you're grounded and you touch the neutral (frequent with small appliances without ground where the frame connected to the neutral), you'll get shocked. Another danger is with 240V appliances where the phases are usually both 120V relative to the ground, but now if one phase is grounded, the other is 240V relative to the ground, making it way more dangerous.

@jeffreystroman2811

2 жыл бұрын

No you would not, it simply would make the generators white wire now the hot.

Ben, another great video! Thanks for all the time (and guts) to do this one! Disturbing how your generator’s schematic was not in alignment with the actual wiring! I do think DuroMax suffers from misleading or inaccurate literature in many cases. Also adding layers of understanding to this video is the particular fact that the DuroMax generator ground circuit is not actually bonded to the exterior frame. What would you say to using an approved grounding rod to ground a bonded neutral generator that is wired directly to a main panel (using no transfer switch) WITHOUT A GROUND WIRE between the generator receptacle and the main ground buss??

@toddlaroche5831

3 жыл бұрын

PS. This scenario I just mentioned (ground rod/bonded neutral/no ground wire from panel to generator) is DuroMax’s recommendation.

@gene2200

3 жыл бұрын

@@toddlaroche5831 after don't know how many hrs finally found 1 mention of a Preditor on the DIY page. Ground and nutrual are bonded at the ground lug, schematic I found was wrong, imagine that! Could easily put a switch there to change it, 4 bolts and 6 nuts. Full steam ahead!

@tlangdon12

2 жыл бұрын

I think I have a similar problem (but in reverse) with a Greengear generator I'm looking at buying in the UK. The manual says that that the neutral is bonded, but the wiring diagram shows that it isn't! I can't see any alternative, but to go to the store, ask them to prove that the neutral is bonded to the frame (and the earth pin on the main receptacle) and only buy it if they can. It should be possible to trust the documentation, but you really can't if it is based on information supplied by the Chinese manufacturer.

Ben, you can't have the ground bonded in both places because of possible fault conditions. If someone runs over your generator cord with a mower and cuts the neutral wire and ground wire, you would then have a voltage potential on everything that is bonded in the house, along with the generator and the panel. If you were barefoot and touched the generator or your panel outside, you would then complete the return path through you and the ground to the generator. If you pushed your plug in mower over to the generator to see what was wrong, and touched the metal frame of the mower and the metal frame of the generator, you'd be in series with every 120v electrical load in your house and really get lit up. Obviously in regular conditions it is no big deal, but these rules are written in blood, just like OSHA regulations. This type of fault condition has happened, and has killed people. If this problem happened with a floating neutral generator, you would have cut the ONLY return path for the current, and the neutral at the generator itself would no longer be bonded anywhere. The whole point of the NEC is to provide multiple fail-safes in the event of a fault. Please don't tell people that it's okay to completely remove one of those protections. Your bonded generator would also backfeed the power lines through the neutral (your interlock isn't up to code for use with a bonded generator for that exact reason). Unrelated: most generators can be converted from floating to bonded neutral easily, and most manufacturers provide instructions on how to do it legitimately.

@HaloWolf102

3 жыл бұрын

I recommend you watch this video again, because he clearly goes over all the information you have listed in your comment.

Great video, Checked my Champion, found continuity from neutral to bond. Wiring showed bonded.

Excellent explanation not only about the difference between floating and bonded portable generators but the electrical safety reasons and now you've earned yourself a new subscriber. Bingo!! "The electrons want to return to the SOURCE, ground really has nothing to do with it." @ 13:30. As a journeyman electricain and electrical safety instructor, you'll be amazed how many electricians, technicians and even electrical engineers have been incorrectly taught that "current always wants to go to ground" then magically disappears. This is why 'grounding' and 'bonding' while related, are two distinctly different things. Excellent example of what it means for the generator's neutral to be bonded (not grounded) to the generator's frame @ 14:55. Bonding the neutral to the frame of a portable generator provides the exact same function as the Main Bonding Jumper (MBJ) or System Bonding Jumper (sometimes called Neutral Bonding Screw inside a service rated panel) @20:00 that's required by the NEC, article 250.28. And why the 'hot or phase' wires, (red, black, etc.) is called the "ungrounded conductor" which carries current to the load, the 'neutral' (white or grey) is called the "grounded conductor" which carries the current from the load back to the source and the green or bare wire is the "equipment grounding conductor" (EGC) which should never carry any current other than during a fault. The EGC provides the low impedance path for fault current to return back to the source to promptly trip your overcurrent protection device (OCPD), i.e. circuit breaker or fuse. In other words the grounded and ungrounded conductors are the active parts of the circuit while the EGC is your safety insurance policy. Getting back to portable generators. You also did a superb job explaining about the requirement for the interlocked circuit breaker from the generator to the panel. You can also use it or a transfer switch to isolate the generator from the utility circuit. Too many linemen have been injured and killed because someone was powering their home during a power outage with a generator that backfed the utility transformer. And this is where a floating neutral generator is required to be used because using a bonded to frame generator here results in dangerous current flowing on the EGC. You showed 1.28 amps on the EGC @ 26:30. Many people probably don't think less than an amp and a half of current is very dangerous but if we recall it only takes around 16mA to cause muscles to 'freeze up' and 30 to 60 mA for ventricular fibrillation to occur, then 1.28 A is very deadly. The other safety challenge when using stand alone portable generators with floating neutrals, is how it prevents GFCI's from tripping during a ground fault, just like your circuit breaker example. Class A GFCIs are supposed to trip somewhere between 4 to 6 mA, well below the ventricular fibrillation threshold. So using the built in GFCI outlets in the generator or a portable plug in GFCI device will only provide you with a false sense of security that you're protected by the GFCI. While OSHA only has authority over workplace safety and health, some of the electrical safety regulations pursuant to 29CFR part 1910 or 1926 can help you remain safe when using portable generators at home. OSHA understands the importance for the neutral bonding to the frame for people safety that they have it mandated in at least four standards that I know of. So if you're using portable generators in the workplace or construction site, please be aware, a savvy OSHA compliance officer will check your generators and issue citations. But thank him, because while a citation will cost you money, he may just saved a worker's life. Check out the following OSHA regulations for more portable generator safety information: 1910.304(g)(3) www.osha.gov/laws-regs/regulations/standardnumber/1910/1910.304 1919.269(i)(3) www.osha.gov/laws-regs/regulations/standardnumber/1910/1910.269 1926.404(f)(3) www.osha.gov/laws-regs/regulations/standardnumber/1926/1926.404 1926.956(c) www.osha.gov/laws-regs/regulations/standardnumber/1926/1926.956

Ah I see, having the generator bonded at the generator and at the panel makes the ground wire and the neutral wire essentially into one wire which then causes current to be drawn through the ground wire rather than exclusively through the neutral wire. This could especially become a problem if the ground wire is thinner than the neutral.

@chris2790

2 жыл бұрын

Well, the thicker wire is going to carry more current than the thinner wire. Not sure this in and of itself presents a problem.

it is only confusing to the unlearned and untrained in electrical Theory and application

Good job, I learned something today! Thanks.

Thanks, very helpful! I just replaced my main 200 amp panel as water had been getting in it and seized my main 200 amp breaker. I couldn't replace that breaker as it is an old panel so I replaced the whole panel. I have been watching videos to understand bonding. I installed a 30 amp breaker in that panel to supply a plug box to have a back up using my generator and was wondering whether my generator needed to be bonded or not. I am going to check by 2 -100 amp panels in the house and make sure they are not bonded. I think I am understanding all this now. Very helpful video 😊😊

kick ass. more fluke. get rid of your old meter please. it sux.

@BenjaminSahlstrom

4 жыл бұрын

I accept donations! ;) The good ol' Fieldpiece just keeps working! It would be great if I could get Fluke to sponsor the channel. Maybe I'll reach out to them.

@rubenp8750

3 жыл бұрын

I am afraid that even fluke has been touched by the long arm of the cheapness. Got to keep them shareholders happy!

Ben, "OL" does NOT mean open lead. It refers to being "over limit" of the meter's capability.

@ethanoverwatch407

3 жыл бұрын

False. A quick google search proves your statement wrong.

@christopherswanson1628

3 жыл бұрын

Only when you are in voltage or current readings is this true. When checking continuity it means open loop. Just happens to have the same abbreviation

@SoundzRite

3 жыл бұрын

@@christopherswanson1628 And also should be "over limit" when you are measuring a resistance that is greater than the range limit on a locked resistance range . This is NOT an open loop! We have all gotten too lazy with auto ranging DMM's. That's why "over limit" is a far better term. It works in all situations, including continuity.

@SoundzRite

3 жыл бұрын

@@ethanoverwatch407 If I have a DMM that declares continuity OL at readings above 200 ohms and I'm probing a 300 ohm corroded connection, is that an "open loop" or "open lead"? I think not.

This was very helpful. Thanks!

Very nice demonstration. Thank you.

That UL socket printing means nothing, get a HONDA!! Live longer

Nice video pal... I'm learning a lot with your videos 😊👍🏻

Incredible video. Thank you so much for this!

Ben: Your previous video did show us that it would not trip 120V to ground. Unless a GFCI breaker on the line. You taught us well.