There is also the historical significance of an original that makes it more special, more valuable, more intriguing. An original is a link to the past, a history lesson, a one of a kind. Even though it is reproduced, it will never be the same as the original. The original was touched and worked on by the hands of the artist in question and there is (almost) always just that one. In a way, it's a connection to the artist, to the past, to a significant moment in history. That is something a reproduction can never replicate. That's how I see it. Great video by the way, it's an interesting subject!

@ghostie7028

Жыл бұрын

This! I collect antiques as a hobby. Buying a modern repro would be pointless, because they dont have the same history.

@jvballatore

Жыл бұрын

You speak of romance, not historical significance. Special, valuable and intriguing are subjective. Touched by the hands or THE artist or AN artist (or forger), provenance trumps the art itself as made explicit in this video. I remember seeing a famous NYC collector mention that MOMA supplied him with a reproduction of a painting he lent for an exhibition and he was struck by the fact that he could not tell the difference from the original.

@ozymandiasultor9480

Жыл бұрын

You are talking about aethereal things, and those don't really exist. The original is linked as much as the reproduction... It is connected...How are those things working, those connections?

@s7robin105

Жыл бұрын

I was going to say the same. With the original you can see the mistakes, strokes and every movement done by the artist. It is the closet link we have to many humans, much like cave paintings, we know someone else worked on it and was there when it was made.

@s7robin105

Жыл бұрын

@@ozymandiasultor9480 Because the painting was handled and used by the artist. It is a direct link to the creator whereas a reproduction was never handled by them

This is a fascinating perspective. When you asked why people don't display reproductions of great art in their homes, my immediate answer was, "But I do!" I own (and treasure) a supposedly perfect resin replica of a small bronze statuette from ancient Lakonia. I bought it from the gift shop of the museum that displays the original, not just as a memento of the visit (which was itself very memorable for personal reasons) but because that statue itself has personal meaning for me. It's a little bronze lion that was made more or less in Sparta...and it's really stinking cute, with big eyes and a funny face that looks like a baffled housecat. I love the idea that some ancient Spartan metalsmith just really liked cute kitties and cast his lion to look like one. The resin replica gives me a sense of connection to an ancient artist whose real name and story I will never know -- and I would never even think about touching the original because I would be afraid of damaging something that I regard as a treasure of human heritage. A few years ago, my 9-year-old niece came to visit me and, while playing with a set of Avengers action figures on my bookcase, seated Thor on the back of the lion and left him there because "he needs a steed". I thought this was hilarious and Plastic Thor is now, in my view, a part of the statue's value because of the connection to someone I love. In many ways, the replica has taken on value (at least to me) that the original doesn't possess. Humans are funny like that.

@soyyoroaldo

Жыл бұрын

Nice! Thanks for writing that out.

@dylandutson1626

Жыл бұрын

This is beautiful. Humans really are funny like that.

@cannabiscupjudge

Жыл бұрын

nice!

Texture. That’s what seeing original art has over a print. It isn’t just colour and image form. Example - the starry night has a texture that is not seen in a photographic reproduction. The art market is just a rich persons Ponzi scheme.

@dazzlingburritoes5693

Жыл бұрын

But is it still important maybe 10 years later when someone figure out away to simulate texture digitally? 3d printing already exists and one day, they will find a way to make exact replicas of paints.

@nicolapayne3275

Жыл бұрын

I agree but I think place and scale is equally quintessential to a work of arts aura.

@macfilms9904

Жыл бұрын

Modern 3d printed copies reproduce texture & brush strokes.

@usernamesrtoostupid

Жыл бұрын

Size is a thing too

For me the original has the textures, the build up of paint that you could physically see and feel if you glide your hand across the canvas. Seeing that is the best part of a painting for me

@ab-hx8qe

Жыл бұрын

Came her to say this, happy to see it’s the number one comment. I’ll add that it’s troubling how often value is limited to simply a dollar sum and how many people with influence hold this posterior.

@eoincampbell1584

Жыл бұрын

Though photography was talked about a lot in the second half, remember the perfect physical reproductions talked about at the beginning. Just as much effort and expertise can go into a perfect copy, and it can have the same textures as the original.

@happinesstan

Жыл бұрын

@@eoincampbell1584 I was prepared to assume he meant this, but when he lists the things we get from originals he doesn't mention textures. His subsequent focys on photography making originals redindant implies he hasn't taken it into account.

I think this is a big part of why people are often disappointed by the Mona Lisa, myself included. We've all seen pictures of it hundreds of times, but I think we subconsciously expect to have some sort of glorious epiphany upon seeing the original. That's the kind of reputation it has

@DailyNihilism

Жыл бұрын

i went and saw the mona lisa and got chills, no disappointment. you probably didn't know the history of it.

@jevinday

2 ай бұрын

I don't think the fact that we've already seen pictures of it really matters, there are plenty of paintings I've seen pictures of that I know would still break my brain if I saw them in person.

great video as always, i think people subconsciously have a hard time giving attention to massproduced reproduction because they are exactly that, massproduced. It almost feels like disrespect to the artist because a painting of theirs which embodies so much soul and emotion has been turned into a soulless cashgrab. But after this video my perspective has most def’ changed, if it wasnt for reproduction all of these amazing links to history would be enclosed to the few elites in our world & im thankful thats not the case nomore.

Reproductions aren't that accurate sometimes, in terms of size for example. When I see an original painting/work, I do not only take a look again to composition, colors, etc Looking at the stroke details, takes me back in time and somehow humanizes the painting. I can see their energy, struggle, their human effort. Also it puts me in perspective from the painter. The colors, brush strokes, size, etc makes me feel for a second part of that painting process.

@jennyjohn704

Жыл бұрын

Poor quality reproductions are just that.

Very interesting. I assume it is the history of the object, it’s provenance, that makes it compelling. Knowing that Picasso touched the painting. And thousands have looked at the same object which imbues it with “magic” that people want to feel. A reproduction does not carry same weight and gravitas.

@winifreddensmore7969

Жыл бұрын

As an artist I have to add that no matter ones skill at copying you can't paint the same painting twice. Though they may look alike they are never the same.

This is one of the best channels on KZread. Love it ♥️

The part about original artwork closing the gap between you and the moment, and being like history happening before your eyes... I think that's really it, for me. If I'm looking at an original artwork, I'm looking at the thing the artist touched, the thing that they acted upon, resulting in the creation of a finished work. It's a lot like how I feel about one of my other great loves -- going to concerts. I'm hearing the band play their music directly into my ears. There is no separation. So if I'm looking at the original Mona Lisa, or the Starry Night (both of which I have seen) it's like, from Da Vinci's or Vincent's brush, in their places and times, right into my eyes. The nearest I can figure is that it's akin to reliquery/idolatry, in my case 😅

Its like ancient coin collecting. People want actual real coins because they feel and know they are holding actual history in their hands. they can sit and wonder who once held that coin in their hand. Was it a Noble? A Roman solder? A street merchant? Perhaps even a Roman Emperor himself? If the collector knew the coin was a fake, then the coin instantly loses all that magic and wonder. No matter how close to the real thing the fake coin looks, the collector knows it is a fake piece and he simply throws it into his junk drawer or gifts it to the family kids letting them do with it whatever they please. I imagine it is the same with paintings. A real painting is deemed priceless by the fact that it came from the original artist's working hands. And then it was passed down by potentially famous collectors over the centuries. A fake painting could had just come off the printing machines of some factory just a decade ago and has no magic to it as to it being from the original artist's hands and it being owned by such persons over the centuries. Things that have actual history gives it its worth. that is my two cents.

Did Berger ever pose or write about the machine art scenario? The internet is buzzing with a funny notion that “creativity is on the verge of dying.” Did the democratization of art set the stage for a paradigm that undercuts the power of the artist? For the moment art feels more accessible than ever. On the other hand, painting with computers is now in the hands of software engineers. Maybe it speaks to a convergence of societal roles?

@happinesstan

Жыл бұрын

Creativity IS on the verge of dying. Less independent thinking leads to less creative demands needing to be filled. Who needs artists when everybody would be happy with a banksy copy?

@happinesstan

Жыл бұрын

@@mazolab Creative juices will always flow, of course. I'd take a banksy copy but I'd call it a poster.

@DailyNihilism

Жыл бұрын

saying a computer made that art is the same thing as saying leonardo's paintbrush made the mona lisa. an artist created that AI art program.

If it was a fake, it would be epic cos that would be so fitting with Mona Lisas cheeky smile.

I value originals over reproductions simply because the artist physically interacted with the canvas, paint, etc to create an image. When seeing a painting in a museum it makes me appreciate each paint stroke and little detail. Seeing a picasso in real life would probably make me appreciate it a bit more than a print (which my parents have) or image online. For me I can't get the same through a print than a real painting in terms of experience. I can have a print I love and always look to, but a painting has more of a connection to me. Hell, I have prints of my digital art I've made that I love and can remember every stroke and how the image was created, but something about it lacks this real life connection to it

There is no way a reproduction, even the best reproduction, has the same impact as seeing the thing in person. I remember going to the New York Museum of Modern Art for the first time in my life in my late twenties and seeing the works that I had grown up savoring in photographs. The immensity of a Jackson Pollock, literally filling up an entire wall, with the palpable brush strokes, it was awe-inspiring. It was like looking at the raw chaos of matter at the most primal level. The value of a painting isn't in its monetary value and the religious awe of standing in front of the original is based on something ineffable, a spiritual connection between the viewer, the work and the hand that made it. It's like seeing the face of God.

@chrispo7610

Жыл бұрын

And would later finding out that the painting you saw was a reproduction devalue your experience?

It’s not always about the subject matter. Sometimes it’s knowing the artist touched that. Made that. It’s like time travel.

@jennyjohn704

Жыл бұрын

You do not and can not 'know' that, you can only accept somebody else's word for it.

@DailyNihilism

Жыл бұрын

the way we see is when light bounces off something and hits our eyes. light bounced off the same thing into my eyes as it did for leonardo da vinci and countless kings

I visit a lot of museums concerning medieval and renaissance art, but I also love the works of artists such as Delvaux, Magritte, Dix and Grosz, to name a few. It relaxes me in a way little else does. One of the things I like to do when looking at the works is to let my mind dwell and think of the hands creating this very work in front of me, letting that thought awe me. "Bosch or Brueghel or even Duchamp has touched this, years and years before I even came to be. I am in the presence of greatness." It's a feeling I can't really convey to someone else. I don't care about the monetary value, but I know that having the knowledge that this or that work would be a contemporary fake would greatly falsify that feeling.

@LoneWolfCODYT

Жыл бұрын

Same, it's like having a fake autograph of your favorite artist, why would you want that?

@jennyjohn704

Жыл бұрын

@@LoneWolfCODYT Many artists, particularly musicians and actors, sign tens of thousands of items. Many (such as Dylan and he's far from alone in this) use a machine to sign things for them. How is that less fake?

@LoneWolfCODYT

Жыл бұрын

@@jennyjohn704 it isn't, I wouldn't want that

You are truly underrated

i am an artist, i don't care about the market value, i think when they go for millions it's money laundering by the mega rich, however what i want from art, making, showing, appreciating, is all possible without the market even existing, if it was done so everyone involved could survive comfortably but this wouldn't add to millions very often

What a thought-provoking essay, thanks a lot. For me, aside from content (and yes, the risk of easy reproduction, for sure), and the “awe of having survived” as Borger well said, it is the 3-dimensionality of the canvas (impasto on Van Gogh’s canvas), the framing, its original context (Last Supper, in Santa Maria delle Grazie in Milan), sometimes the conversation with other paintings in the viewing room, that make it so worthwhile seeing original works. I don’t feel conditioned ! But the other point is that there are reproductions that make absolute sense like the replica of the prehistoric Lascaux paintings in France (for conversation reasons), placed in their original context ! Thanks again for the great channel. B

I'm not sure why this is really a question. It's the same if its the mona lisa or a concert Tshirt....it's about being there, or by their hand or in their studio or apartment. Authenticity is all that's important...its never really been exactly about the painting. Maybe its over my head. I appreciate your channell and insights. Thanks for the effort

I think the space the original painting is in plays a big part in how we see the painting. The environment of an art exhibit vs my bed room are two different spaces entirely. In an exhibit I am meant to ponder the subject matter and look at the space as a whole. Not to mention the scale of the piece. In my bedroom I am invited to lounge and wouldn’t give too much of a second though to the art. Which might now even be the same scale.

congrats on 100k subs! I love your videos

I just found this channel, and holy shit you’ve blown me away. It usually takes me a little before I sub to channel but this is the second vid I’ve watched and I already got notifications on. This is some great content, thank you for this.

I disagree. There is more to art than the mere image. The Huntington Library has The Blue Boy and Pink Lady in the same room at opposite ends. The experience of seeing the magnitude of the two paintings in this environment is unique.

@personperson719

Жыл бұрын

However it still is a mere image, just one we are enchanted by

@elizabethlee2136

Жыл бұрын

And what if there was no way to experience the art except as a reproduction. Not everyone is going to see that painting in that room. Would it be fair if a second hand observer admired the image, but was considered invalid. And the architectural set up of the room is an image to pay homage to the original paintings which emphasize how invalid a second hand experience is so you'll visit that museum. Not an attack, just a thought experiment.

The reason I (and probably other people) don't like replicas is because they're usually printed on a flat surface and thus lacking the texture of the original, be it brush strokes or impasto or imperfections. I love to look at paintings from really close to see all of that - which makes paintings like the Mona Lisa, where accessibility is not given, quite uninteresting to me. Funny enough, because no visitor comes close enough to study the texture, no one could be 100% sure it is the original. To me, the romanticism around highly valuable art is similar to the cult around famous people. The alleged higher importance is simply a higher degree of publicity and nothing inherent in the art or person. Replicas of art raise their level of popularity and leads to increased demand, which results in higher prices.

@myggggeneration

Жыл бұрын

I like the analogy of celebrity people and celebrity art -- it really leaves it up to the educated (or uniquely sensitized) observer to understand these categories and whom they apply to, at least in that one person's opinion. But, do we really all need to be on the same page on this? I actually don't care if that particular Mona Lisa is fake - I don't connect with her either way.

Some paintings I’ve been able to appreciate and love even from reproductions because the message they convey is readily available. Even with some Picasso’s or Van Gogh you can tell it’s a woman or a landscape. But there are certain paintings that their true impact, their true meaning, is only apparent for me, in real person. Pollock and Rothko come to mind. Only by seeing their art at the MOMA was I able to truly see and understand how it made me feel.

@happinesstan

Жыл бұрын

Have you seen Van Gogh in person? I thought his paintings to be childish. Flat and uninspiring, until I saw the real thing.

There is scale to consider as a reproducing an original at a much smaller size loses a lot in translation. Also colour is often not the best; I have bought catalogues to exhibitions I've been to and been disappointed at some of the colour. Texture also plays a role, and that is a lot harder to reproduce - the lighting in your house will be very different to that in a gallery and thus the shadow on impasto tracts will not appear correct etc.

I have a copy of Primavera by Botticelli on my wall. I love it! It’s not as big as the original, its in my dining room and I don’t care if it’s not the original, but still pretty big. I payed $250 for it. It’s on the wall right in front of me every night when I eat dinner and it makes the food taste better and dinner time more pleasurable. I would say I made my own shrine around my painting, it’s a part of a ritual I and my husband I every night. It’s also in a traditional gilded frame, to honor its origins. I am an artist my self so I truly honor art. I believe you can do so with a copy if you have specific intent.

I am here to appreciate the way you mimicked the original video with your own image. Chef's kiss!

I LOVE YOUR CHANNEL!!!!! Glad I found it!

Amazing video as always. I understand your point and agree with you too. However, I would still want to at least see the original artwork and it will always be special for me, because, well the Artist touched those paints, and canvas and created that masterpiece. By seeing the original painting, I would be in close proximity to something that the artist physically interacted with. THAT feeling will always be very different from any printed replica - no matter how authentic it looks. I am not an artist, nor am I studying art, but I do enjoy exploring artworks and knowing their story, hence it is important for me to see the original painting!

How did you write this and not approach Benjamin? It's almost a breath of fresh air!

Just found your channel and have to say I really like your work.

Thank you so much for your videos, I love people that make me rethink my whole life, that make me question things I tend to think of as obvious. Love your channel!! Food for thought

this might be the most profound concept you've covered. Love it

This takes me back to reading “The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction" by Walter Benjamin and his discussion of Aura of the original work of art and how mechanical reproducibility inadvertently increases its value

@tthomas184

Жыл бұрын

That's the definitive work on this topic, thanks for posting.

Thank you, as an Art teacher I'm sure John Berger's series will be of a great interest. On the same theme, did you watch Orson Welles' "F for Fake"? It revolves aroung art forger Elmyr de Hory, exploring and deconstructing the very concepts of authorship and expertise, another way to tackle the notion of authenticity in Art.

I enjoy (and sometimes get overwhelmed by) the presence of humans before me. When I stand in front of a Van Gogh, one of my favorite artists, I'm not just admiring his technique, or the subject matter, or even the emotion that's been invoked in me, I'm also remembering...he was here. Over a hundred years ago, the man himself touched this canvas, swirled that paint, gazed out the window and put down what he saw. A man, who like so many others, suffered. But when I see his art I can say: You were here. You did this. It's not just Van Gogh. Any piece of original art carries the trace of artist, if only because we stared at the same canvas. You don't get that with mass produced reproductions.

So much food for thought here. Thanks for another great video!

also interesting to think about works whose processes involve physical reproduction, such as printmaking or bronze casting, where there was always meant to be more than one final object

Because with original paintings, the artist touched it, stood before it, held it, breathed on it, gave their energy to it...

Didn't know Calson like things other than chess.

In my opinion, it's the imagination and narrative of the original artist putting their soul into the original painting that is the attraction.

I've always been fascinated by the ephemeral nature of art. The obsession with art preservation is one aspect of that. The idea of the great artist drawing in the sand on the beach, knowing the tide would wash it all away hours later. Does that make the art more or less valuable? Can a duplicate be as meaningful as an original? Is the soot-stained, cloudy ancient fresco more or less valuable than it was when it was vibrant and fresh?

@elizabethlee2136

Жыл бұрын

And aren't museums, ruins and sites just images themselves on a wider scale to enhance the prestige of the originality of the original artwork people already saw. How is the Louvre, Moma or Persepolis any different then a wide scale installation that make you feel glad you shelled out money for going to Paris, New York or Iran, so just another image

what an amazing video on an extremely interesting topic!!!! much to think about truly. thank you

I felt compelled to reflect on three "copies" of art that have affected me personally. While on a research trip to England, I scheduled an out-of-the-way trip to a tiny village to see Shandy Hall, the home of Rev. Laurence Sterne, the author of "The Life and Opinions of Tristram Shandy". This book, which I had purchased in paperback form, contains all the ideas of the original manuscript. Although I don't recall seeing a manuscript copy, I was astounded to see cabinet after cabinet of leather bound first editions of these works from the mid 1700s. Now here's the thing: looking at these books on the shelf filled me with wonder not because I read the words within, but rather because in that moment I was in the presence of so many books that must have given their readers similar experiences as I had when I read my paperback copy. And since they had the advantage of being much older than myself, I can only imagine how many readers must have encountered Sterne's ideas through these tools of expression. When I saw Duchamp's "Fountain" at the Philadelphia Museum of Art, I had already seen dozens of pictures of it. Seeing the work in 3 dimensions gave me no extra appreciation of the piece. But seeing "it", the thing, the object, the urinal turned into a statement, now exhibited as an example of high art worthy of public attention, recontextualized it in my mind. I could no longer think of the piece as a mere concept, but instead as a locus of the attention of critics. I imagine their eyes locking onto the photons reflected from it's glazed ceramic surface slamming at light speed into the retinas of the taste makers of the day, exciting electrical impulses that wound their way around their brains eventually illiciting emotional reactions of laughter, anger, awe, grief, etc. One more meditation: at Harper's Ferry, West Virginia, there is a bible. This is not unusual. It's an old bible, but then again, not old enough that would make it outstanding among surviving bibles of it's era. The reason it's on display is because this particular bible belonged to John Brown, the slavery abolitionist who attempted an armed uprising against slaveholders. It was that particular bible that inspired Brown's zeal, it was that particular bible that he turned to for guidance. One can imagine any other bible of the same printing would be functionally interchangeable with the one on display, yet the importance of it's preservation and exhibition, just like Sterne's first edition prints, doesn't come from the text, but rather from the object itself. This was *the* copy of an artwork that connects the present time to a crucial moment 160 years ago.

@DocBree13

Жыл бұрын

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

One thing for sure, as long as the original exists, it can be copied and compared. If it were to be lost, we'd never know sure if the copies got it right.

I really wouldn't mind a replica, but an original has remnants of the soul of the artist in my opinion. A copy to me tends to feel cold and lifeless, knowing a machine produced it, even if the image evokes positive emotions. The original you can just feel it was constructed by human hands, the artwork has a soul.

Great video. I enjoy this topic a lot as it's almost so obvious yet difficult to explain. It's the same conversation being had right now about the value of NFT's and the perception of value.

@WobblesandBean

Жыл бұрын

I think NFTs play on the human psychological desire to "own" something. Even though a buyer thinks they own an NFT artwork, they don't, but they're convinced they do. Which apparently is good enough.

Seeing the thickness of the paint on the Picasso was worth the trip. It was amazing. And I did get close. So close that I set off the alarm.

what is the usic playing in the background of so many of these videos?

anyone know what the song is that starts around 2:20? thx

this is an interesting point ive never thought about. but i think i have my own personal answer. my favorite painter of all time is van gogh. but i dont base this only on his paintings, its who he was as a person. his story, his mind, what he went through. i adore him and i pity him and i love him and i miss him, even though i never knew him. when i see his paintings, what came first into my mind is not an appreciation of it as an art, but as an extension of his mind and daily life. when i see his sketches i see him sketching, when i see his paintings i see him sitting in front of a canvas set up on the streets, meadows, fields. i see him when i see his paintings. to be able to see the original would have moved me so much in this case. he made this! every stroke of paint was made by his hands! what could he be thinking at the time? what did he see? does he stop to consider the angle of this one flower? or the shade of that womans face? i think of him and of how the real painting im seeing right in front of my eyes is so very loved by millions of others, each with entirely different reasons of how i loved it, so far into the future. a perfect copy done by third parties still would not have contained his soul in it. i think things like these matters to a lot of people.

@happinesstan

Жыл бұрын

If you've never seen the originals you've never seen his art. A photograph doesn't do it justice. I spent the first twenty years of my lie pouring scorn on the art world for celebrating his efforts at finger painting, until I saw them in the flesh. It is at that moment that art occurs. It's not in the creation, nor the finished product, it is when it comes to life in the mind of the eye.

I would disagree with "if you saw a perfect recreation in a hallway you'd ignore it." I saw a reproduction of Cafe Terrace at night by Van gough in a friend's house and it _haunted me_. Every time I was there I would take some time to look at that print.

Great question! I really enjoy your videos - please keep with the challenging questions. I would say the one word - which was mentioned - AUTHENTICITY - people like the encounter with the actual - that's what brings the meaning -- thank you

i think its the fact that i am seeing the painting that a great artist has once touched many years ago. it's like a message from the past. it connects me to the artist imo. a perfect copy would be functionally the same, but it would not really be the very first iteration of the artwork that survived to our day. I think this is why it means much to me. maybe it's different for other people. and I am glad that art is being more and more democratized, it means more people can enjoy it

I like the meta thought of understanding that this video is itself a representation of easily accessed art for all, that we choose to still watch because of the mystery of art.

What is the painting at 9.00 called? Great essay, also love the discussion in the comments

@DocBree13

Жыл бұрын

“Birth of Venus” Alexandre Cabanel

I see art that is superior to the Mona Lisa on Instagram and Tumblr every day. But the Mona Lisa has the history and backstory to make it more interesting

I think to me what makes the originals so special is the human contact that was involved with a world long gone. People generations before me I have seen with us some very few people have touched it, it’s kind of like looking at a metal sculpture and seeing the shiniest part where people would be touching something and the oils of their fingers causing it to shine brighter than the rest of the statue. It’s the human connection

A photo isn't the same as the painting, they have texture, the way the light hit them changes the way they look.

Only at 4:36 so if this is addressed please excuse my comment, but for me when it comes to what the significance it honestly comes down to the sheer age being the main reason. And the fact such a respected artist being directly connected to the work

…just a casual art expert coming through…it is obvious that the competition is not exhaustingly arbitrarily Mutual. Naturally the meaning can be derived from the experience granted by its own mastery and I am positively convinced that this arrangement is stellar in its execution

It's an interesting subject. One way to see it is how Walter Benjamin saw It: the originality of an obra depends of Its "soul". All the story behind the obra. Some times even a copy at the beginning starts to have an artistic value because (in words of Heidegger, I think I don't remember well) it's in the artistic constellation and has a original soul (or aura). It's an interesting subject. And, in my things, the market (and the price) is an interesting thing but not a way to see the value of an obra. Jaja.

Where can I buy perfect reproductions for $20 ? I only seen posters in that price range. It would be cool to have a brush stroke perfect reproduction of Mona Lisa and if it so cheap I could buy several.

Reproductions of historic art are incredibly sought after by myself & others here on your channel. It’s true I don’t display religious art from the renaissance in my home but I do seek it out along with its history here on KZread. The power of historic art does not hold most modern viewers in the same awe as those who viewed in originally in the worshipful atmosphere of cathedrals but we are in awe of not just the art but the culture of those who originally produced and consumed it. The monetary value is just a means of curating and preserving it. We don’t all get to know or feel it’s true meaning and value, this may take years and elude some, even most, of us entirely.

Why will I sit and stare at a beautiful sunset and merely glance at a beautiful photograph of same? Copies just don't have the emotional connections of originals in anything. Would you be interested in going to the Smithsonian to view a replica of the Wright Bros plane?

Maybe it just me, but there are some art pieces in person feel so much diffrent in person then online, now thus might be that some piece have so interesting textures when looked closely. Maybe its not the point of the works to be looked so closely but to me it give them a big diffrence

It must be said that original works are important for research and study. For example , with radiology techniques the scholars can discover older versions of that painting underneath , that were modified by the artist later.

I mostly agree with these points, Though for me this "religiosity" originates from the respect and awe for the artist. That is why I would stare at the "real" Starry Night more than a reproduction, even if the "original" one is fake. The knowledge that the real Van Gogh worked on this is what turns it into a religious icon worthy of worship

A copy is like a clone, it draws itself from the original without which, there is no standard to compare against or worth to bother with making a replica of at all.

Wait though... a print of the MonaLisa wouldn't be the same, what about the brushwork and all the layers.

I saw a documentary on TV back in 1979 showing that the Mona Lisa is fake. It has "THIS IS A FAKE" written on the canvas in Sharpie but you can only tell with an X-Ray. Though strangely the fake was also painted by Leonardo.

Texture and the essence of the artist

If it's fake, then honestly at this point it's hung there long enough not to matter.

Great questions, I think the answers of what it lost with reproductions has a lot to do with the ideas of personal prestige "I saw the original Mona Lisa" not so much as to getting any insight from it as to "getting associated" with something remarkable, like taking selfies with famous people: association and to get a aura of prestige. Also a fetishist pleasure. So the satisfaction from originals, not just in art, also with historical objects, trips, persons met has a fetishist basis. Not better, not worse, but has little to do with the art enjoyment itself. So fetishism, associations, prestige and elevating oneself... which is very childish in the worst sense :P

7:15 Very interesting Indeed 🤔 But... what exactly is an Owiginal Weplica?

The answer lies in the scam of art valuation - buying art early and holding it for a time before reselling can generate enormous wealth. I have a friend whose parents are moderately wealthy, but they were 'into' art and bought Warhol's, Hockney's, Koons and others early on, for not terribly much $- purchased so many to the point my friend had a stack of these leaning against a wall in a spare room - millions of dollars in art not even displayed - but increasing in value year after year. I think Warhol's screen prints of Campbell's soup cans and Marilyn Monroe were commentaries on the commidifying of art - and of course now they are highly prized (and priced) pieces of art - which is pretty ironic when you consider it.

For me, and perhaps others in earlier comments (forgive me if I am repeating) the attraction to the original is that it was touched, breathed upon, created, changed, manipulated, loved hated... by a real human being who was a genius, a flawed, living human being...and when I have my minor struggles with brush, canvas , paint I know that I am not alone. They too ...(. I don't give a tinkers dam about the money. Banksy shredding his art, as an act of art to create new art was perfection.) The breath of that old flawed genius in Florence is in that aged, cracked paint and that is the soul of the piece.

For me its also the material that plays a huge role, old parchment, canvas, handmade paints artist mixed himself. It used to be much more personal and labour intensive. The elevation of paint that cannot be experienced by 2d scan. To think someone poured their skill and soul into that very material with their own hands. A reproduction especially printed one looses that completely.

Personally for me, it depends on what kind of painting it is to make me prefer the original over a replica. Things like texture, provenance, and the artist's original touch can't be easily reproduced. But if those things aren't particularly important to me for that particular painting, I'm more than happy to just hang an image up on my wall just to see the picture. I display Monet and Rockwell pieces taken from calendars up in my room because I care for the image more than anything else. For any paintings I buy in the future, I probably won't care about the provenance so much as I care for the image and the life it brings to my life because in the end, that's what it's supposed to do! I may never have a real van gogh in my home at any point in my life, but I can get a replica of starry night or irises and still get the same feeling I'd get from being with the original because the meaning is still the same. Van Gogh painted his work only once- he put that love and time and energy into that one piece. Because he put the work into that painting, creating that image, any reproductions- in my mind- will carry that same weight. It's like a book. No matter how many times it's been re-printed, or what version of the story I'm reading, Frankenstein, as a work, will always move me because it's forever going to be made of Mary Shelly's love and energy, no matter how it's reproduced. Also, sometimes you can just like an image! Who cares about the provenance if its a nice painting that you like and wanna keep around! Do we care about the provenance of our furniture or our dishes? Then why drop your love for a piece if it suddenly isn't as special as you thought it was? Art should be loved for art's sake, not for how fancy its history is.

The question is, why is the mona lisa so famous ?!!!! 🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️1

Your point around 11:00, that people use art to place themselves into class even if their art is the same as someone in a lower class, reminds me alot of NFTs

It's coz it came from the artist's genuine, sheer mind & idealism, that's the importance of authenticity. It came from the artist's definition of a certain imagery. "This is how the artist sees the world." That's why works of artists like Van Gogh hold high value, as oppose to picture copy produce.

if the mona lisa was fake or not, it wouldnt change the outcome. still travelled, admired, payed, took a photo, and so on. you wouldnt know, so its pointless. atleast its the closest to the real thing. for example me seeing a copy of the mona lisa in the school hallway doesnt bother me or give me any kind of reaction or satisfaction, is because it just wouldnt be possible for the real one to be there. even if it wasnt the real thing inside the louvre i wouldnt mind going there anyway, its the closest thing… you get what im trying to say?

@cliffgaither

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Vaino ■ That makes sense ! But you _know the Mona Lisa_ in the hallway is not real. When you travel to see the original ... the curators of the museum are presenting a copy ... not telling the public ... that is deliberate deception. It kinda taints the whole experience of traveling w / anticipation ... of thinking you are going to have the experience of seeing the real art-work of a famous printing. If the public knew the truth, before going to the Louvre, the curators would lose money ; attendance ... their bottom-line isn't about sharing the work w / the public ! Their purpose is commercial-value which cheapens the art. In another of his insightful videos, The Canvas, pointed-out that the Mona Lisa was placed in a very obscure place, surrounded by many other paintings. It wasn't until the Mona Lisa was stolen & then recovered, that the public ( by the hundreds of thousands ) lined-up to see it. It now has a distinctive place in the museum [ the only painting in the room ]. We should not be lied to when it comes to Art. The Artist (s) would not appreciate the forgeries / photo-copies, imo.

Great naming

i agree with adam savage on a lot of this kind of stuff he prefers relicas and good copies of props than the actual thing he appreciates and admires the true object, he has even worked on expensive props of iconic movies like star wars, but the true value of an item for him is being able to touch, hold, and feel it rather than having the true object locked away in a glass case for display he will even make elaborate themes cases for some of his stuff just to pack it away nicely in an interesting way in terms of paintings? the image and depiction itself is what matters - i admire the original, i admire the work that went into it and th history behind it, but i would rather buy a copy of my favourite painting than the actual thing, under any circumstance. i would want to display it without having to worry about whether it could become faded or damaged, without having to care for the value of it - just caring about the substance now on whether a painting that looks like its from a famous artist and feels the same put isn't? that's fine. as long as it is a good piece of art - all this stuff is just made up, it's all stuff someone has made into an artwork, why is it so crucially important who did it? face-value is what i care about. do i like the art? great, that's it. i dont care if your grandmother or leonardo da vinci painted it

If tomorrow we find out the Monalisa isn't authentic, I wouldn't feel deceived, since I haven't had the chance to look at it longer/closer enough to connect with the humanity of the painting.

I was told by a friend who had worked at the Louvre over 20 years ago that the Mona Lisa painting in the Louvre is a fake. The reason behind this is because a. if it ever got destroyed by a terrorist attack, which are many in France, then that would be it, no more Mona Lisa which is arguable the most famous painting historically, and b. no one would be able to tell the difference (spectators and experts alike would not get anything less from looking at an exact replica) - a replica would be an exact copy, the only difference is the paint used, and that it's not the original.

The artist's physical presence with the tangible item is why we view things "mystically" or assign greater "historical value." We are basically obsessed with fame and knowing any historical figure touched and sat before the work, laboring over it meticulously, means that it's worth something. It's not a benevolent advent, it's a sickness.

When you see the original Starry Night you are seeing the painting done by Van Gogh personally in Saint-Remy-de-Provence, France in 1889. Reproductions and photographs do not have this distinction.

How can one assume the feeling, evoked by the fake, is the same feeling, evoked by the original, if one has never seen the original?

I am never going to see a Van Gogh in my life so being able to study his work online and thru reproductions is more than fine to me. Yes Van Gogh touched the original and that connection is amazing and makes them historical and cultural treasures, but me personally, I would be thrilled with a good fake.

I doubt the mona lisa would be so famous without the invention of photography.

Of course it is different. The original is the one the artist touched, felt, was around, inspired by. It is THE ONE. The original is the artist. What if your favourite person in the world was cloned. Would it be different? Yes, because they are not the one. They are not they. They are because of and off of they.

Thank you for another insightful perspective. This dialog about photography making the image democratized and accessible conjures up comparisons to AI and the democratization of style and skill. It will be a short time before 3d printing will make both textures and styles accessible to anyone. We already have complex plate-making processes that produce high-quality reproductions. It's just another latest step in substituting human skill with technical precision. The tension many of us feel about this latest democratization of skill through automation, robotics, and AI, perhaps has more to do with our current social structure; capitalism. As long as a person's ability to survive is tied to their ability to produce a specific skill, there will be tension between technical advancement and skilled workers. It's certainly not a new phenomenon, machines have been reducing human labor since the first human used a lever to pry out a rock. However, there is a limit to all things. What might this mean to art and artists when the 3D-printed version is nearly indistinguishable from the original? What happens when AI replaces the need for the artist?

It is a feeling and it is the story of the painting. A link to the past

I disagree. 1 - Art was often made to be public: handprints in communal caves, frieses on Greek temples, frescoes in cathedrals, mosaics in Roman bathouses, statues in public squares, etc. 2 - The copy will never be identical to the original. Posters are made with dyes on paper, not oil on a canvas. The tv screen doesn't convey the feeling of looking up at the ceiling of a cathedral. 3 - We already make copies to protect the more valuable original. There's a reproduction of the whole Lascaux cave made solely to protect a prehistoric work of art from the visitor's body heat and breath. 4 - Sometimes democratisation is the point. There was recently a scandal of a tycoon having illustrated prayer books in his home which should have been in the national museum. No one would've cared if he had copies, the offense was that he claimed exclusive right to the "peasants'" treasure. 5 - It's about a labor of love. My family has given and recived hand made art as gifts. Machine made copies would only be acceptable if the originals were lost. Mass producing them would be an insult to the gift-giver. The price of Mona Lisa varies so much because it is priceless.

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