“[Dali] was purposefully confusing and contradictory.” Great, Dali was an internet troll

@ramppappia

Жыл бұрын

imagine Dalì's Twitter account

@bri1085

Жыл бұрын

@@ramppappia twitter account? comes across like he'd been very active on something like 4chan

@niranjansrinivasan4042

Жыл бұрын

@@bri1085 lol, exactly

@nebulis6509

Жыл бұрын

Real, very archetypal

@ramppappia

Жыл бұрын

@@bri1085 4chan too, but on Twitter you can troll the entire world and end up in the news

"the artist whose art i love is a terrible person" have always been an interesting discussion

@eeneranna9795

Жыл бұрын

This is such a common thing in anything that has even a slight focus on art. I mean, Magic the Gathering has this issue all the time. Teresse Nielson, Seb McKinnon, and Noah Bradley just to name a few.

@froggykekinson4365

Жыл бұрын

what exactly makes Dali a ''terrible person'' though

@titus4440

Жыл бұрын

@@froggykekinson4365 Well he was racist and xenophobic, for a start

@lunacy5308

Жыл бұрын

@@froggykekinson4365 also his moustache is too good

@darnfrick3354

Жыл бұрын

@@froggykekinson4365 When did we as a society stop recognizing prejudiced people as "bad"? Do you realize how dumb your question sounds?

Dali feels like the same kind of person who, in modern day, enjoys such a position of privilege that they feel like they’re unique and separate from politics so they have leeway to use incendiary symbols and violent ideologies flippantly for shock value. Basically, because these didn’t actively threaten him, he could be edgy and just casually associate with these aesthetics for the sake of being “absurd”. But if there’s one thing the internet has taught us, it’s that doing something ironically very quickly leads to doing it unironically, and given that Dali was already not one of the groups fascism was targeting, it was very easy for him to adopt it genuinely.

@nebulis6509

Жыл бұрын

Baby first learns about in-group preference lmfao. I hate to break it to you but ideas that can lead to “harm” against others can be correct. Think about who we harm as a democracy, Syrian children? Those are not the people I want the government to be harming. You seem to not understand that people get hurt in every system, you’ve just been lied to about certain things

@neinno8172

Жыл бұрын

Well said

@maydaymemer4660

Жыл бұрын

its kind of amazing how you can turn this completely unrelated thing immediately into you complaining about teenagers making memes leading to fascism

@largeshaftzac8027

Жыл бұрын

@@maydaymemer4660 it’s a good analogy

@NelsonStJames

Жыл бұрын

People believe what they believe, one doesn't have to be in a position of privilege to have a belief, and how people come to believe what they do, is as myriad as there are individuals. Not being able to get into another person's head, no one can presume to know how casually, or deeply anybody feels about the positions they hold. Obviously Dali was trying to express something, because that's what artists do. And while an artist may be provocative, they tend to differ from your typical edgelord in that they aren't doing what they do simply to shock you.

I love how I was 50/50 about it first, and then Dali went, "Yeah, I like, literally hate freedom." My man, that wasn't subtle.

@fromthebackseat4865

Жыл бұрын

That wasn’t subtle? That’s basically communism compared to “yeah the white race should enslave everyone else.”

@jjunbeatable9522

Жыл бұрын

You were 50/50 when he said he would want to have sex with Hitler????

@derekcarney

Жыл бұрын

You were 50/50 about what- his genius? You are so easily swayed. Weak.

@oliverhand9408

Жыл бұрын

@@derekcarney he was probably thinking about Dali's character when he said that, not his genius.

@126theman

Жыл бұрын

Definitely hahaha

As a man that took part in a movement that prones so much freedom that it encouraged unconscious creation, Dalí saying he hates freedom is hilarious. He was obviously lost in the sauce, if not outright so self-absorbed that freedom was only for him but not for others

@Lee-km7qq

Жыл бұрын

Anyone who takes a second to truly understand will begin to hate it. If you haven't, then you aren't thinking hard enough.

@nothingineternityterms

Жыл бұрын

@@Lee-km7qq I doubt you understand much.

@Flozone1

Жыл бұрын

He and some other Southern European fascists have quite a nostalgia for the aristocracy. They want that aristocratic flair for themselves and see themselves as part of an old nobility. As such they have privileges, while others do not.

@bozhanaslavkova3291

Жыл бұрын

I think he sees freedom in a philosophical, not political way. The way I interpret it - he sees the dangerous and scary part of freedom, Hitler got the freedom to rule but he used it "mazohisticly". In his paintings Dali uses freedom but he also he also shows how scary it can be. He bends to some rules and abandons others. Freedom is not bad but it can be dangerous (and a lot of times freedom is not what we think, it's fake, that's why "freedom is shit")

@maestroicarodecarvalho3947

Жыл бұрын

@@Flozone1 this remember me of Jorge Luis Borges and his weird relation with the military dictatorship in Argentina

I had always wondered how Walt Disney and Dalì could have collaborated as much as they did, after knowing each other for a very short time. This kinda makes sense of that...

@ferrisbueller9991

Жыл бұрын

Best buds club

@davidnotonstinnett

Жыл бұрын

Disney wasn’t a fascist. This was a rumor invented in bad faith by labor negotiators.

@sleepysteev2735

Жыл бұрын

How?

@kkilljoy3588

Жыл бұрын

Please elaborate for those of us who don’t know squat and v much want to know all about the squats!

@biodegradablematerial1800

Жыл бұрын

I didn't know that, can you elaborate?

Having just a surface level knowledge of Dali and just coming came back from the Dali museum in Florida, this video was extremely enlightening. From the museum I could gather that he was a troubled individual, but having this real historical and political context that the museum lacks is extremely important.

@Blue-wz5um

Жыл бұрын

The image of dali that the museum portrays is 100% intentional. It's difficult to be a local gem and maintain strong community outreach/ k-12 educational programs (i do highly support the museum's educational outreach) when your mascot is a Hitler loving pedophile (i say pedophile due to a specific written work of his called reverie. Look it up with caution, it was very shocking to me when I first read about it)

@colspaimmaca

Жыл бұрын

@@Blue-wz5um definitely agree. But holy shit just looked that up. Fucking insane.

@Blue-wz5um

Жыл бұрын

@@colspaimmaca i learned about it from the biography the shameful life of Salvador dali which happens to be the book he cites at the end of this video. It's an excellent book that i would highly recommend. The author of the book occasionally editorializes with dry wit comments on the bat shit facts of dalis life that he recites but even without the author's commentary, the details that he includes speak for themselves about the kind of person dali was

@colspaimmaca

Жыл бұрын

@@Blue-wz5um sounds awesome! Will check out if I get the chance. Thanks!:)

@artemis199

Жыл бұрын

The Florida art museum is where I fell in love with his art when I was 12... Definitely glad I watched this video to get a new perspective of him.

The part between Lorca and Dalí is especially sad once you realize that they used to be very close and some people even considered them lovers at many points

@aelspecto

Жыл бұрын

He admired his friend killer, at this point, Dali may be a big candidate for the most spineless man in history...

@javierviana96

Жыл бұрын

The miniseries Lorca death of a poet explores this issue

@imarobot8204

Жыл бұрын

Dali hated Lorca and Pablo. He hated any artist that wasn't him.

judging by this video he didn't just have sympathies with fascism, he was a fascist.

@gentlemancat3100

Жыл бұрын

I want to cry now. This ruins my gay fantasies of him.

@Dervitox

Жыл бұрын

@@gentlemancat3100 good

@neilcicieregamybel0ved

Жыл бұрын

@@gentlemancat3100 you had WHAT

@derekcarney

Жыл бұрын

Yet EVERY thing he made goes completely against "falling in line," tradition, and every other stupid bullet point. He was SOOOOO not a fascist. You all are so misled. So easily misled, you SHEEEEEEEP.

@derekcarney

Жыл бұрын

Which war was he in? Who did he opress? How? What the fuck are you talking about?

His art is fantastic. Revolutionary and largely imitated to this day.....but in most interviews and articles I have read or seen....he came across like the club kid who tries too hard....seeing his political side has been enlightening indeed....

@etsequentia6765

Жыл бұрын

wtf is a "club kid"? what club?

@zeeeeroin9981

Жыл бұрын

@@etsequentia6765 that is a term used for rave goers and night club patrons. A lot of those types in New York and L A are super outlandish and wanna be weirdos.....at least from my experience.

@etsequentia6765

Жыл бұрын

@@zeeeeroin9981 Thank you for answering. But other than some extroverted behavior, I'm not seeing the connection. Guess it works for you. One more thing of note - super outlandish and wannabe weirdos are definitely not unique to club kid culture. Thanks again.

Damn Dali was basically the Kanye West of the 1930s

@anatine_banana_69

11 ай бұрын

Too bad superbad wasn't released yet

@paranoidandroid6691

7 ай бұрын

@@anatine_banana_6921 jump street*

@anthonyprince7989

2 ай бұрын

bro I thought the same!

This is common knowledge among anyone who's read about Dali and not just appreciated his paintings, but it's good to let people know about it who might not. It's one of the examples that's often brought up in the debate over whether a "bad" person's art should still be loved/taught, etc. The most ironic thing, of course, is that most fascist governments would have burned his paintings as subversive.

The relationship between Bunuel and Dali is interesting they started out together making films that were anti-bourgeoisie, there to shock the establishment and to also criticize the Conservatism of the Catholic Church. After making 2 films together they drifted apart. In 1940 Dali went to New York and whilst there his fame soared. Bunuel went to New York in 1939 got work with MoMA. It was the only job Bunuel could find in the US who had a wife and two children. One day, the hugely successful Dalí blithely called Buñuel an atheist in an interview and Buñuel was promptly fired from his post. It was from this that Bunuel came never to see or speak to Dalí again. The way these two artists diverged is interesting Bunuel kept the ideals of being anti-bourgeoisie, questioning the establishment and criticizing the Conservatism of the Catholic Church. A faith Bunuel was brought up in. Whereas Dali came to accept Catholicism, the bourgeoisie and importantly a deep rooted conservatism one that accepted eccentrism and connected with the blurred definitions of fascism. Whereas Bunuel had to leave Spain for the US because of his support of the republic. Having worked in various propaganda capacities in Spain and France that made him a political exile to Franco and the Nationalists. Dali escaped Europe coming to New York to start his journey with narcissism cultivating a fame and fortune that earned him the nickname “Avida Dollars.” In his eight years in the States, Dalí designed shop windows for Fifth Avenue, collaborated on set design for ballets, worked on two Hollywood films including for Hitchcock. His developing obsession from his time in the US with celebrity, fame, mass media, the paranoiac, narcissism, the cult of the individual and the ego, all make sense when one starts to relate Dali to ideas and sympathies around fascism. Just as Donald Trump can be seen to connect with all these things and can be seen to connect to ideas and sympathies around fascism. It is interesting the way Bunuel and Dali came to be having opposite sympathies to a political coin.

@adenizenabroad9593

Жыл бұрын

Holy fuck, this might come off as spectacle horny but a dali vs bunuel feature film would be pretty based

@scardon1940

Жыл бұрын

This is the most well written comment in KZread history

@richardfinlayson1524

Жыл бұрын

Very interesting, good on you mate.

@VuotoPneumaNN

Жыл бұрын

I seem to remember that Dalì actually outed Bunuel as a communist, not an atheist.

@jamessnazell3865

Жыл бұрын

@@VuotoPneumaNN 1942 saw the publication of Dali's autobiography The Secret Life of Salvador Dali. In it he mentions that Bunuel was an atheist. When the Catholic Church authorities in New York discovered that he was an atheist, they put pressure on the New York State Department to get him fired. In the end, Bunuel was so disgusted that he resigned and then confronted Dali in a New York bar. In Bunuel's memoirs he says, "I was beside myself with rage. He was a b-----d, I told him... his book had ruined my career... I kept my hands in my pockets so as not to strike him.' I'm not sure how much Bunuel actually confronted Dali in the New York bar but nonetheless this was the last time they shared each other's company. Their friendship had already soured prior to when they were both in New York around the time of the production of the film L’Age D’Or, Dali was involved in the writing of this film but they had a falling out prior to production starting and in reality it is not a Bunuel and Dali film it is more of a Bunuel film. For Dali the drifting apart from Bunuel around the time of this film included a dislike of Bunuel's political views and his leaning towards Communism. For Bunuel L’Age D’Or, was the turning point where he drifted away from the Surrealist movement and more towards the influence of Communist views. This time was also a pivotal time for Dali because it was in 1929 that he first met Gala who came to have a profound influence on him. Gala was a Russian Jew and would have an influence on Dali in terms of influencing his religious viewpoint. Gala being Jewish also played a big part in their decision to leave Europe and go to New York. So this is a long winded reply to say that Dali did state that Bunuel was an atheist but it was also in relation to what Dali would describe as disliking what he saw as Bunuel being a Communist.

I have long known how problematic Dali was, especially after reading his autobiography, The Secret Life of Salvador Dali. I subscribe to "even a broken clock is right twice a day". You can enjoy art made by terrible people as long as you recognize that they are, in fact, terrible people and not to be emulated, and teach how terrible they really were. Even better - find out who were the other surrealists and enjoy their work.

@Stigstigmamatata

Жыл бұрын

a lot of the surrealists were pretty horrible but dali took the cake for fascism, for instance I like a lot of breton's poetry but recognize his xenophobia and rascism. but yeah the whole cannon of art is a smattering of bad people making things that take the publics breathe away

@richardpowell1772

Жыл бұрын

I like him even more.

@Seeker12x12

Жыл бұрын

Indeed. For example reportage indicates that Picasso was often repellant as a person. By extension of virtue Chè Guevara was a murdering rapist and Marx was an irresponsible neglectful husband and father as well as a fraud who refused to pay the bills he ran up with local artisans and shops. It really isn't fair to put anyone on a pedestal. We all have feet of clay.

@sofia8194

Жыл бұрын

I don't think the bottom line of the question is the personal enjoyment of an individual's art, but having the tools and capacity to look at it with a critcal point of view, and how it perpetuates or comments on certain topics

@thenowchurch6419

Жыл бұрын

He was a flawed person, not terrible. Terrible is a bit hyperbolic.

I really wish there were subtitles for the interview.

Great video! Just a side note: The Spanish republicans were not alone during the spanish civil war: they had brigades from many countries known as the international brigades with fighters from France, Italy, Germany, Poland, United States, Ireland, Yugoslavia, United Kingdom, Belgium, Canada, Cuba, and Australia to name just a few

@maximilianolimamoreira5002

Жыл бұрын

he is talking about the lack of direct intervention of western countries in the side of the Spanish republican government

@jordanhedington2421

Жыл бұрын

@@maximilianolimamoreira5002 ah ok that makes sense

@maximilianolimamoreira5002

Жыл бұрын

@@jordanhedington2421 there was a kind of neutrality agreement between France and the UK, to avoid direct conflict with Nazi Germany and fascist Italy, so, the volunteers from these two countries, and others to some extent, wanted to punish the volunteers for violating this agreement, though, latter, they learnt that these men and women weren´t wrong for fighting against fascism.

@tomtomtrent

Жыл бұрын

@@maximilianolimamoreira5002 in some cases, the governments didn’t even learn that. In the US, a lot of people who supported the republicans were labeled as “premature anti-fascists” and persecuted during the Red Scare

@Melaka_Pill

3 ай бұрын

@@maximilianolimamoreira5002 and they still lost hahahahahah

yknow i enjoyed the art analysis videos but once you got a guy who lived through francoist spain to say "there are fascists operating within the federal government of the united states" i knew you were dope and had to sub. thank you for the analysis

The “surrealists” should’ve let Dali’s art remain the way he originally wanted, so there will be no vagueness of what his ideals were to future generations.

@sourgreendolly7685

Жыл бұрын

Why should other artists drawn to the style hold back just to show his ideals? Why is having this conversation (as with this video) not enough? Genuinely asking.

@Blue-wz5um

Жыл бұрын

Dalis association and connection with the surrealist party meant that his work would stand to an extent as a reflection of the surrealists beliefs as a whole. I would guess they made him change it as a compromise instead of kicking him out of their group entirely. The surrealists tried multiple times to cut ties with dali, as explained in this video, but each time he would just barely explain himself away. Dali and the surrealists both benefitted from each other. I assume it was the best course of action at the time to simply have dali remove nazi iconography from his painting. When it got to the point where they could no longer deny dalis fascist sympathies the surrealists did cut their ties with him. And I dont believe they ever tried to hide or obfuscate the fact of his fascist/hitlerian sympathies. Tldr; dalis connection with the surrealists was complicated and I dont believe the change in the painting was intended to hide his beliefs but rather to compromise with a man they were desperately trying to believe was not a fascist

@jemmapellemma8185

Жыл бұрын

@@sourgreendolly7685 Honest answer. Because we have to have this conversation or watch this video instead of being able to: just look at a Dali painting, see the fascist imagery (the Nazi armband for example) and conclude "oh obviously: Dali was into fascism." It must be understood that we are _not_ merely talking about surrealism as a cultural movement - we are talking about "The Surrealist Group" which you had to officially join, and could be officially expelled from - as Dali was. The Surrealist Group was not, as you suggest, "artists drawn to the style" - no, these were instead a specific group of creatives that all knew each other, and so they made Dali censor himself so as to not make it seem that they, or the group, condoned Dali's fascist ideals (which they did not).

@nebulis6509

Жыл бұрын

People like you are why I agree with Dali lmfao

@SlashCampable

Жыл бұрын

@@nebulis6509 Don't cut yourself on all that edge bro.

"Separating the art from the artist" is 100% impossible for multiple reasons, but the thing is, I think that framing is dishonest. Let's face it. We don't really care about whether the art and the artist can be separated. We don't give two craps about that, because it's not really about the author, or even about the art. It's about ourselves. What we really want to know is if, by enjoying a piece of art made by a bad person, we are doing something immoral ourselves. If we somehow get some sort of blood on our hands because our enjoyment is helping evil to spread, however indirectly it may be. I don't know what the answer to that maybe (right now I'm more inclined to "no" for multiple reasons that are too long for a KZread comment format, but I might either change my mind or double down as I grow older, who knows), but I think it would be more productive to frame the debate in that way, rather than the "separation" wishful thinking thing.

@luxill0s

Жыл бұрын

To sum up an argument I saw elsewhere: we want to know if what we consume is “good,” if it makes us “moral,” because it is our only outlet of control in a world where what you consume is top priority. We can measure ourselves and others based on the morality of what we consume. You can like something and not agree with the intended motivations behind it. The perception of what an artwork means to someone is up to that someone. The artist leads the viewer to water, but that does not mean the viewer will drink. They may just stare at their own reflection.

@nebulis6509

Жыл бұрын

Wait til these guys get to heaven or hell and find out that fascism is literally the closest we have to a morally good governmental system in the modern world

@patricknorton5788

Жыл бұрын

I no longer (for the past thirty years) listen to Miles Davis because of his reported treatment of women. Just can't enjoy it, however talented he was. But I can't say that I can hold myself to this standard in every area. Homer, for instance- I have no idea of how a decent person he was. But we do need to have standards, and to raise them when and where possible.

@luxill0s

Жыл бұрын

@@nebulis6509 Fascism is a system that forms hierarchies of the worth of human beings based on idiotic criteria. Yet it is "morally good"? I think your moral compass is in an entirely different gravitational setting...

@nebulis6509

Жыл бұрын

@@luxill0s imagine thinking fascism assigns different moral worth to different individuals, you are literally just brainwashed, we are all equal in the eyes of God, but hierarchy is not only natural, it’s a metaphysically reality. And there’s nothing you can do about it lmao

Love his artwork, strongly dislike him as a person. My impression is of an astute business man who hid behind eccentricity to ride out whatever brought him the most controversy and as such money. Someone in the comments described him as a 'club kid who tries too hard' which I'd say is spot on if you see club kids as ultimately bored with society, acting like court jesters in hope of attaining enough interest in their creations to sustain their lifestyles (a bit cynical I know but things got quite dark in club kid scene).

@derekcarney

Жыл бұрын

As someone who was in NYC and hung out with many of the club kids at that time, you are really not too bright. Dali lived his life completely as performance artt. The club kids were like dollar store versions of wanna be freaky, famous, and talented without the talent and with LOTS of mindbending concoctions in place of the talent. HIS PAINTINGS are masterfully rendered. His work in every way was so far ahead of everything that came before it and among his peers he raised the bar on every level. The man will always be a genius and nothing you sad nothings that have never made anything that anyone in the future will ever make a video about or mention in a book can say about him will change the fact of his genius and the amazing body of work he created. I think you are all jealous. So sad.

@emmasimon4005

Жыл бұрын

​@@derekcarney bro my man was explicitly a fascist, no matter how good his art was

@derekcarney

Жыл бұрын

@@emmasimon4005 What did he DO? WHO did he hurt? What negative impact, result, damages? Otherwise you thought police should kick rocks.

@emmasimon4005

Жыл бұрын

@@derekcarney do you really see no material impact from being a public figure who directly and loudly supports and befriends a fascist dictator? supporting fascism, especially with that much vigor, makes you partially responsible for the horrors of a fascist state.

@legoqueen2445

Жыл бұрын

@@derekcarney as I said, love his artwork, strongly dislike him as a person. I don't think you'd find many who dispute his genius. But what the video documents was Dali's tendency to align himself with fascists and Catholic conservatives even when these agencies were committing crimes against humanity such as what occurred in Spain's civil war. For all his charm and whimsy when interacting with American media (which in turn lead to millions being made by Dali) Dali himself didn't support democracy or freedom for the masses (ie. American values). He valued his own personal freedom and liberty, which is why he kept on the right side of those in power in Spain, but he didn't see those rights as universal. Definitely his artwork was genius, amazing, unique etc. But as a person he was not very likeable. But it's interesting you say Dali lived his whole life as performance art. To me his whole persona of being quirky, saying things to get reactions etc was all done to sell more of himself, ie. make more money. As for the original club kids, I love the who faux celebrity/create your own character playfulness and creativity of the scene. It very much echoes Andy Warhol's Superstars era. It must have been fun to have lived it though I'm guessing you saw a lot of dark stuff too. It's interesting you mentioned people taking drugs to make up for a lack of authentic talent, that makes me wonder how many of the Club Kids doing interviews on day time talk shows were the true creatives and which ones were just trying hard. I'm a boring 90s kids, a lot of grunge, a bit of raves then some New Age festivals and travelling around the world until settling back home in Australia. I love pop culture and wish I had a time machine to go to New York during Studio 54 and the early Ballroom scene plus London in late 70s and Early 80s so I could ponce around as a New Romantic. Would def hit HebeGeBeez around that time to check out Talking Heads. Damn it Derek Carney, I'm not jealous of Dali but am jealous of you if you were part of that whole era!

Thank you. This presentation was not enjoyable, bu was edifying. You made your case. I am sadder for that knowledge. I was always aware of Dali as a catholic iconographer (strict sense), but loved his application of psychology and perception science to his art. He was a great technician. No artist can participate in a movement to elevate barbarism against the many for the purposes of an elite few and not diminish his humanity. There is a constant tendency of critics to divorce the object from its creator. That is as wrong for paining as it is for dance.

@desanctisapostata

Жыл бұрын

Why is it wrong tho? Ethics and aesthetics are (although closely related and interwoven to each other) after all diferent things, and in strict sense, they are even opposites.

@desanctisapostata

Жыл бұрын

@Anonymous D?NGO exactly!!! Moral has always and will always remain relative to space and time.

@ouroboser

Жыл бұрын

@Anonymous D?NGO It is impossible to separate art from the artist. The artist created the work to share their worldview and beliefs. As a musician, even my most apolitical works are deeply affected by by politics and experience just as much, if not more so, than my contemporary influences. However, we still don’t throw out work from 100+ years ago because the generation who was alive and curated that generation’s artwork already sifted through much of that. Furthermore, we should not destroy fascist art, as that makes us no better than fascists, nor should we destroy any art from any time period that moves counter to the culture or movement, but it is eternally important to discuss their contexts, creators, and motives for the sake of education and freeing the minds of all observers to come to their own conclusions.

@hotboxhearse

Жыл бұрын

​@@ouroboser if you want to treat the concept of separating art from the artist like that it is such an unuseful phrase. people use it all the time because they enjoy music but denounce whoever created it. saying "um ackshually you cant but thats fine" is such a weird noncognitive, pseudo high ground to try to take. the phrase is incapable of being literal, and is solely used to communicate the idea of "i dont support this person, i just enjoy their art". that is literally all there is to it. no need to act like its deeper also what the fuck do you mean by "the artist created the work to share their worldview and beliefs"? are you really convinced that no one makes art for the sake of art, whether it be beauty or for the fun of creation? and the person you are responding to never even claimed to want to destroy fascistic art, you are literally restating their point in the second half of your comment, they dont want to destroy art no matter how controversial or outdated. you are fucking fascinating. i really hope all you said was coming from your egos desire for people to agree with your empty "smart-sounding" blabber and not you attempting to think critically or logically, because that would be an embarrassing attempt at any sort of unique intellect

@nebulis6509

Жыл бұрын

@Anonymous D?NGO real, most people today have no historical literacy so they think that the things they feel and think are normal, when in reality we are a unique couple of generations and if you go back, not even 100 years, if you go back before a certain large event where many people supposedly died then you’ll find people think a little differently than you

Just found this channel, love the video and formatting of it. Very informational, my only gripe is that while there were subtitles for when you were speaking, there were none for Mr. Navarro. I understood most of what was being said but I think having subtitles for the person being interviewed would be extremely helpful. Keep up the wonderful work. 💗

@allanrichardson9081

Жыл бұрын

Yes, the oscilloscope tracings are harder to understand than the speaker’s accent!

Dali is a better artist than Picasso

The Surrealists: _WHY CAN'T YOU JUST BE NORMAL_ Dali: **screeches in melting clocks**

Just a small nitpick: you pronounce several Catalan and Spanish names as if they were French. They're not.

@dovette3595

Жыл бұрын

también pronuncia la u en Guernica aunque no tenga diéresis

@lucasosis

Жыл бұрын

I was digging for this comment ;)

@derekcarney

Жыл бұрын

I love you, Guillem. Thank you. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!

@m.s.9744

Жыл бұрын

That's because he's a Facist 🤞

Good video! Also, it was funny how you pronounced all the spanish and catalan names in a french accent.

@lilschleem1640

Жыл бұрын

i was thinking this exact thing

@screaminglemon3642

Жыл бұрын

kinda annoying tbqh

@joaquinbaume1291

Жыл бұрын

yeah i was so confused lol

@donlasagnotelamangia

Жыл бұрын

He didn't pronounce Eco's name correctly though :(

Sounds like Dali was the original Kanye

@Strange9952

Жыл бұрын

No.

Dali was a weird man. I'm not convinced he was legitimately a bona fide fascist, more than he was contrarian to an obnoxious degree. He was obsessed with going against the societal norms, regardless of what that looked like. His dedication to being "anti popular opinion" got him in trouble. Societal expectation was to get married, have kids, and be monogamous, so Dali was very loud about doing none of that. Part of me thinks he only spoke of Hi†Ier the way he did was because it was controversial to support him in any way, shape, or form.

@schmlif8839

Жыл бұрын

Maybe he didn't consider himself a fascist but he sure did act like one. At the end of the day, actions speak far louder than words At the end of the day how different is a fascist from a "non fascist" if they both act the exact same way?

@weatheranddarkness

Жыл бұрын

I think Amelia, if it were just the images in his paintings that would be a decent perspective, but his active support of, and friendship with actual fascists, i think goes a lot further than say Siouxsie Sioux wearing a nazi armband for a show. That was all about about just rustling jimmies, and she disavowed the nazis outright. I think whether it got him in trouble or not isn't the question, it's more about what he's getting at, what are the between the lines truths and consequences of his ethos, and influence.

@Ozhull

Жыл бұрын

Doesn't matter what his intentions or thoughts were. Act like an asshole long enough, even in parody, you're just going to become an asshole.

@derekcarney

Жыл бұрын

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!! Amelia nailed it. Finally someone will some sense in their brain. YOU NAILED IT. This is exactly what was in my head but couldn't articulate it due to the RAGE AND ANGER that these fools have sparked in my soul. THEIR NONSENSE could literally mislead fools with no thoughts of their own to destroy such irreplaceable masterpieces.

@mackcyran5939

Жыл бұрын

The portion of the video where the author criticizes Dali for not taking a similar political stance like Picasso on a painting of the same subject matter really highlighted that. Why should we be spoonfed information through the art we look at? Dali really challenged the viewer if you take a non-partisan look, we don't have to agree with works to find them profound.

This is exactly the youtube channel I've been looking for all these years! Thank you for doing what you do!

@TheCanvasArtHistory

3 жыл бұрын

That warms my heart!! Thank you and welcome onboard!

Great video. Never understood why this part of him was not highlighted more.

I know that I come to this discussion very late, but I thought it was interesting at the end of the video that you asked "Have I convinced you [the viewer] that Dali was a fascist?". The answer is "no", but only because it was Dali himself who convinced me that he was a fascist. His words and actions solidified that fact in my mind, regardless of his early dissembling on the question. The next question which has been alluded to by earlier replies in these comments, would also make another great video for you to produce - how do we receive his art now, given his background and what we now know about the man? This was a wonderful video and I get great value from all your work - thank you.

Dali's Enigma of Hitler is the debate-bro "Change My Mind" of surrealist art

This is a fabulously researched and insightful video. One suggestion: could you post subtitles for the recording of Professor Vicente Navarro's commentary? It is extremely difficult to understand him due to his accent.

this was such an interesting theme and video, so full of information that really left me open mouthed. thank you for the work u put into your research, i'll look forward to your content :)

Dali had a brief impressionist phase when young. When studying art in Madrid Dali was deeply interested in Cubism , even boasting that he know more about the subject than the teachers.

i have to say your pronunciation of "Miró", "Lorca" and "arriba" with a french r is pretty funny as a catalan and spanish speaker. not that it detracts from how good this video is at all!

I found your channel as I have had Magritte on my mind and I am very glad I did so. This was a well done and informative video.

@TheCanvasArtHistory

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you very much! Glad you appreciated :)

this might be the best channel I've ever stumbled upon

I had no idea about the depths of Dali's fascism. Thank you so much for documenting this.

Your videos make me really happy. I always get a really excited feeling by your approach and style

To the people who say "Separate Art from the artist", keep in mind that the art that the artist does is very much influenced by their beliefs and actions. And ultimately, any talent anyone on this planet has cannot be a reason for absolution for people. "He was a terrible person but a great artist." So does this argument mean that it would be inexcusable only if his art was terrible? Why should art matter? Art reflects our beliefs, exactly as the Canvas (I'm sorry I don't know your name, I just discovered you) pointed out with the Cannibalism, The Enigma of Hitler and the Weaning of Furniture Nutrition. There are many extraordinary artists in this world. You can appreciate talent, but I don't think it's wise to fall for it. Thank you for this thorough video. I first watched your video on John Heartfield which convinced me to sub to you and will keep watching your videos. I'm grateful KZread recommended you to me.

@xero0015

Жыл бұрын

Art does not necessarily have to reflect our beliefs and we can find value in art that doesn't align with it or goes against it, the point is every artist you know could be a terrible person and you just don't know it yet, is because it hasn't been revealed to you, is it only okay to support an artist if you don't know them fully? Some of the most beloved pieces of music and art are made by arguably morally questionable or terrible people by today's standards, just because I am heavily appreciative of the writing or melodies of one John Lennon does not mean that I share his same aptitude for beating women

@Spookspek

Жыл бұрын

I, for one, like fascist aesthetics despite being pacifist. I also enjoy Soviet propaganda music despite leaning libertarian. Chinese too, despite viewing the CCP as a current threat. I listen to Christian music despite finding some of their core beliefs absurd and may sprinkle in a nasheed for good measure. So my favourite painter may well be a fascist, or, hell, even a serial killer.

@sardonicus1739

Жыл бұрын

Strongly disagree since literally every artist imaginable could be a terrible person without you knowing it. Should we just ban art all together unless everything is screened by your personal standards of morality? How does any of this invalidate the beauty of the art? If you later found out your favorite song in the world that you've loved for years was written by a monster, would you ban yourself from enjoying that song anymore or be able to get out of your black and white thinking to realize something can still be beautiful regardless of who made it? And if you found out an absolutely awful hideous piece of art was made by the kindest most loving most morally pure human to ever live, does that art suddenly become beautiful to you? Is the only standard of what's worth viewing or not based solely on how pure the person doing that medium regardless of quality? Normal humans can separate art from artists cause they don't see art as a way to pat ourselves on the back about how moral we are for enjoying the "correct" art that's by the most pure soul.

@SaladDongs

Жыл бұрын

@Marlo Kartel Yikes

@Stroheim333

Жыл бұрын

Why not separate the artist and art from the viewer...? I can find art absorbingly fascinating _because_ it was made by crackpots, fascists and communists. OF COURSE that doesn't make me as a viewer a crackpot, fascist or communist. You look at the movie The Godfather, and nobody expect you to sympathize with the maffia or being a mafioso yourself. That's simply not how it works.

Brittany Broski sent me here on a research assignment

@user-pb5me7ng5z

6 ай бұрын

sameeee 🫡

@ThatTurtleGirl

6 ай бұрын

Same, I’m here to do my duty for the Broski nation 🫡

Dali seems to be inspired by "Ubermensch" ideology and he was, atleast by my standards a narcissist and its convincing to believe he was attracted towards narcissistic ideologies like fascism, nazism etc.

I remember years ago when Dali was in poor health and would soon die, me and some friends went to the fancy part of town to go see some Dali prints at a gallery. We were all very excited because we were going to cut class from high school. On the way there one of our older friends told us the whole story of how Dali was a fascist who loved Franco. At that time I really had no idea who Franco was or anything about the Spanish Civil war. And only vaguely knew nazis were bad, and if you were a socialist or communist you had extra reason not to like either. So we kind of brushed it off and went anyway. Honestly we spent more time at the gallery with plasma globes than looking at Dali prints. Plasma globes had just come out that year. PS you need to turn autofocus off.

This turned out to be one of the best videos on fascism and it’s history I’ve seen, after doing a lot of research. Very interesting topic and absolutely right to use Ecco’s definition. It is often important to separate art from the artist. In both art and music.

@yetanotherrandomyoutubecha4382

Жыл бұрын

I've never been the biggest fan of Eco's 14 characteristics, because they are more a work of semiotics than a definition. Basically, he is describing what fascism usually *looks like*, but not necessarily what it *is* at its core. So fascism continues to be a bit of an elusive concept with that framework

@felix4645

Жыл бұрын

@@yetanotherrandomyoutubecha4382 I think the vagueness is actually part of the ideology. It’s not a defined thing as socialism is, for example.

@yetanotherrandomyoutubecha4382

Жыл бұрын

@@felix4645 Maybe. It is explicitly anti-intellectual, after all

@daddykarlmarx6183

Жыл бұрын

@@yetanotherrandomyoutubecha4382 I think the vagueness makes sure that there's basically no fascists that don't fit some of those points, while not being as vague as just calling them totalitarian

@thepants1450

Жыл бұрын

How do you separate art from the artist when their own direct ideology is covering the canvas? Wtf lmao

I personally have three theories on why Dali seemed to admire fascism. I would first like to note I am not a fascist myself, nor am I being an apologist for Dali, I just find it strange how a man of his character would hold such a bias. It is indeed not impossible, like Picasso being abusive or the philosopher Albert Camus being unfaithful to his wife. 1. Dali is so surrealist that he sees himself above morality and politics. I’d say his actions seem similar to that one friend everyone has who makes racist or sexist jokes but we all know they don’t really mean it. He rejects the naturally left leaning politics to surrealist art and instead becomes what he sees as a pure surrealist, as in being so absurd that your beliefs can go this way or that. 2. He admired fascism because of the esoteric nature of it. One of the core principles to fascism is some form of strange mysticism, esotericism or other such ideas in its ideology, culture, and even art. An example is how Fascist Italy supported Futurist art, which is seen as a form of modern art. Another is the esoteric paganism in Nazism that sees the “Aryans” as descendants of an alien race, Jews as evil wizards, and the belief that the world his hollow (yes those are all real things the Nazis believed). I can see Dali being attracted to fascism because of how inherently absurd, contradicting, and fantastical it is. 3. (My favorite one) Dali is just committed to a bit. Rather for his own humor, some art reason, or just because he is Dali he thought what if he pretended to be fascist. Though it’s probably not true I would not put it past him.

@poopymcstankbottom3479

Жыл бұрын

I feel like, other than the first suggestion, it would be a lot easier to explain these standpoints than to just flat put deny the association like he chose to do. I exclude the first one because in my opinion thats just the long way of saying "hes fine with fascism existing but wont strongly associate because he needs to preserve his image" and, again in my opinion, thats exactly the case. Something ive learned after years of interacting with fascists and their rhetoric, is that if you have to ask "are they a fascist?" The answer is almost always yes, regardless of if they try to hide it behind comedy, deflection, or denial

@Ducks4lif3

Жыл бұрын

Option 3 is basicly dali is am early sam Hyde lmao

@nickkorkodylas5005

Жыл бұрын

Lefty meme tier of wall of text. All that was needed for a person to admire fascism was to learn about Spain's Red Terror.

@RapidBlindfolds

Жыл бұрын

I think point 2 summarises really well what I’ve always thought. Dali was interested in the æsthetic potential of everything. He said he found middle class people boring, but the extremely impoverished and extremely wealthy fascinating, ergo a fascistic, hierarchy society generates more of these divides

@poopymcstankbottom3479

Жыл бұрын

@@RapidBlindfolds i mean this makes sense for dali, but its kind of a garbage way to see the world. Like "ah yeah i just like fascism bc it makes life a lil more quirky and fun" not really the hill i would choose to die on

In the late 19th century and early 20th century, the Futurist art-movement was a great inspirer for people such as Benito Mussolini and the Proto-Fascists before him.

As an Spaniard I want to thank you for such a thoughtful and we'll researched video essay! It's a shame not even people in Spain want to look into this and refuse to address it, ignoring it even though the Spanish civil war and the fascism that ruled the country for so many years is still very tangible. Looking away is still a big part of the problem. No wonder Buñuel and Picasso turned their back on him. I wonder what Lorca would've thought of Dalí calling him the most apolitical person he knew, especially considering how political his death was. I found your channel not so long ago and have watched a few videos and they are all incredibly delightful!

@dovette3595

Жыл бұрын

@@okay8136 what

@marionmolina2225

Жыл бұрын

@@okay8136 I suppose you are a fascist too. We are not talking here about communism. That´s another chapter to discuss about...

@pepo4990

Жыл бұрын

Lo que se ignora de la misma manera, es lo que hubiera pasado de haber recibido la República apoyo de la Unión Soviética. El bando rojo no sería ni de lejos admirado o tratado con indiferencia. A veces es mejor pensar que ha pasado lo mejor que ha podido pasar. Y no, no soy un fascista. Mi familia es rusa y murieron por el comunismo.

@marionmolina2225

Жыл бұрын

@@pepo4990 Pues tú serás muy ruso y no dudo que el comunismo no es la panacea pero los cuarenta años de fascismo que vivimos en España fueron atroces… cuando el resto del mundo había acabado con ellos nosotros aquí aguantando. Y ahora aparecen los herederos de esta gentuza criminal a darnos por el culo otra vez… Pues no, hay que echarlos fuera donde quiera que aparezcan.

@_extrathicc

Жыл бұрын

@@pepo4990 "No soy un fascista" dice el que literalmente defiende el fascismo. "Mi familia es rusa y murieron por el comunismo" dice el que defiende a la gente que consideraba a los eslavos subhumanos y deseaba exterminarlos... Si tu familia realmente es rusa, la única razón por la que estás en este mundo es gracias a que los bolcheviques derrotaron a los nazis y evitaron que le hicieran a tus ancestros lo que le hicieron a los judíos de Europa Central. Si la persecución política te parece mala y odias a Stalin por eso, es entendible y te apoyo en ello, su paranoia causó un sufrimiento innecesario y decenas de miles de inocentes murieron por su culpa, sin embargo, si criticas a Stalin y defiendes a Franco que hizo lo mismo, lo mismo tu problema no es la persecución política o el asesinato. Lo mismo sí que eres un fascista y tu problema es que tienes un deseo de sentirte superior a otros y abusar de ellos. Y no importa que tan autoritarios hubiesen sido los estalinistas, de haber ganado la República y haber dado un golpe de estado el PCE, aún así, España hubiese estado en una mejor situación que con Franco. Si bien la persecución política hubiese estado a un mismo nivel, no habría habido el aislamiento internacional que causó hambrunas durante los primeros 20 años del franquismo. España se habría industrializado más gracias a la ayuda soviética, y eventualmente se habría liberalizado sobre la misma época que lo hizo en la realidad. Y claro, esto es suponiendo que el PCE hubiese tomado el control, pero el PSOE e IR seguía teniendo fuerza en el bando republicano y hubiesen mantenido la democracia. Y también asumiendo que los nazis no invadirían España en ese caso en 1940 tras ocupar Francia y eventualmente hubiésemos acabado con un bipartidismo entre socialistas y radicales tras la Segunda Guerra Mundial justo como Francia. Eso hubiese hecho que España hubiese estado incluida en el Plan Marshall y se hubiese desarrollado económicamente mucho antes. Resumiendo, no, no pasó lo mejor que hubiese podido pasar, de hecho, es casi al contrario. Solo podría haberse empeorado con una victoria Nazi en la 2ªGM.

The canvas posts, I click! Keep up the great work 😃

@TheCanvasArtHistory

3 жыл бұрын

Oscar comments, I answer! Thank you so much!!

I must say, I absolutelly love how you make connections with references to other videos, so I can endlessly jump between them

Even artists as radical as Dali aren't immune to the bad seeded yet seductive ideologies. This was really enlightening.

@brianmiller5444

Жыл бұрын

such as Breton’s evident love of communism? I kept waiting for that side of the story to come out…And this blindness remains on the left today as well as the right???

@fgsz291

Жыл бұрын

@@brianmiller5444 This is a video about Dali and facism, why would he talk about Breton and communism?

@Josep_Hernandez_Lujan

Жыл бұрын

Picasso was based AF

@quedtion_marks_kirby_modding

Жыл бұрын

Most radical artist follow radical ideologies tho? Like just see the vanguards, surealist were mainly communist, futurist facists, etc.

@h...........................

Жыл бұрын

@@Josep_Hernandez_Lujan woman beater, sadist, chauvinistic, macho...

There are no captions when Navarro is speaking, as someone with hearing issues I would like to be able to understand all of what he’s saying.

@andretyroneii941

Жыл бұрын

There is CC!

@shannernanner

Жыл бұрын

@@andretyroneii941 There is for the video but I didn’t see anything when Navarro was talking.

@andretyroneii941

Жыл бұрын

@@shannernanner when I get to the part when he's speaking, I try to write to you what I heard, if you still need

@andretyroneii941

Жыл бұрын

@@shannernanner I'm not hearing that well too (music ruined me haha) and not a native speaker but, from what I understood, Navarro was a member of anti fascist underground groups and knew Dali's side many people didnt know, cause in mainstream he was known as a great painter. During Franco presidency he was supporting his inhumane actions and Navarro perfectly knew it and this interview just gave it a proof. After Spain became more democratic and denounced fascist ideologues, Dali left country in hurry cause he was afraid that people in underground who just raised to power would lynch him. Navarro said basically all things said in this video, you can just trust him alot more cause he was in this political situation and knew almost all fascists in the industry

@andretyroneii941

Жыл бұрын

Second part is alot more hard to transcribe, but I tried my best. It's very interesting. Short version is, after Spain regained democracy, it was half democratic, some forces and political leaders that was active during Franco, stayed in place as there was never a public execution and outlawing. As Dali was financially helping them before, they returned a favor by burying his fascist legacy through their connections. Like, telling current politicians not to ban him from galleries and all those things. That what gave him needed break into mainstream and most probably only reason he wasn't "lynched". At the very end he say that there is no apolitical art, and ignoring fascism will make it worse. Also he said that there is alot of nazis still (he's right, sadly), and we still need to see it as a threat

You have convinced me that my art history education was wholly inadequate.

Fantastic video. Really concise assessment and level-headed analysis. One quip I do have is on the camera work. It was distracting when the camera's auto focus would repeatedly shift back and forth between you and the background, I would recommend locking the focus to prevent this.

I think members of my family were in the Lincoln Brigade because they are buried in a special place for Spanish Freedom Fighters in the cemetery where they are buried. This was a very fine video. I studied so much art history and I am shocked I never knew this about Dali. As to Fascism here, oh yes, it’s here and always has been. Thank you.

Nobody was ever in as much awe of Dali as Dali himself. Perpetually looking for people to tell him how much of a groundbreaking genius he was. Exceptionally tiring man who mistook the tiny thoughts inside of his head for world-changing ideas, yet who made a few decent paintings, but doesn't deserve most of the attention he recieves.

@gamewizardthesecond

Жыл бұрын

Youre being too harsh. Dali has made several leaps when it comes to surrealism and his paintings diverse, not to mention 2-3 iconic pieces that are instantly recognizable. Im obviously on the "separate the art from the artist" - which in turn makes him that much more interesting to me, then before

@gentlemancat3100

Жыл бұрын

Well he blew Picasso out of the water as far as raw talent not mention skill. Heil Dali.

@derekcarney

Жыл бұрын

I would LOVE to see you make anything better than his worst painting or drawing. Tell us more (MISTER OR MISSES OR THEY/THEM) ART GENIUS. He spoke the truth. Would you expect him to lie and say he was not the greatest painter to ever live? Why, so people with no talent like you don't feel inferior? OMG you people are truly awful. He was amazing. Stop hating.

@derekcarney

Жыл бұрын

@@mazolab What did he do to hurt anyone? How is he a BAD person? For having thoughts about something you do not agree with? I don't get it. How is everyone judging him as if he is Hitler (who was both a terrible artist and terrible person! I have 6 million receipts if you don't believe me.)

@derekcarney

Жыл бұрын

@@mazolab He *JUST* painted in a detailed way???? You don't see ANYTHING visually absolutely DIFFERENT that broke all the rules of what was before it in all of art history?!?!?! Just painted detailed??? Show me all the physics-defying, strange morphings, smeared line between recognized form and kinda-real and completely unreal paintings that came before him. Way to belittle his unique visions. They are conceptually like nothing painted before that. Prove me wrong.

Eco's definition is terrible. He might as well be describing any authoritarian.

@quedtion_marks_kirby_modding

Жыл бұрын

To this day I don't understand why so many people still cite him. Like under his "definition" even Cuba and the ussr would be considered fascists.

@Samuel88853

Жыл бұрын

And stating that supporting even 1 element can make you a fascist is way too broad.

@mostlycusimbored

Жыл бұрын

If you want a clearer picture of fascism focus on Italian fascism, conservative revolutionaries in Germany and integralism. I mean none of it is good stuff to believe but it's worth understanding the layout of modern and contemporary hard right belief

@quedtion_marks_kirby_modding

Жыл бұрын

@@mostlycusimbored I just read what they define themselved over. The best definition of facism (which comes from doctrine of facism) is that "everything they do should be for the good of the nation (nation the population, not necesairly the state) no matter the cost (and often at the expense of those outside it)" it definitebely is a better definition than the eco one.

So, he basically was 20th century Kanye West.

@brukernavn3409

27 күн бұрын

Or Varg Vikernes.

I loved one of the final statements that Navaro made along the lines of apolitical art being inherently political. Like the popular quote used by white supremacist group Proud Boys, "Stand back and Stand by". Although Dali wasn't too keen on hiding his fascist ideology- Using your privilege to ignore discrimination and violence towards minorities on the basis of being "apolitical", is what gives fascism a platform to continue spewing bigotry. Beautiful video essay!! Thank you for providing education on art, film, and literature!

@Firefly-dy5zc

Жыл бұрын

The Proud Boys are most definitely NOT "white supremacists". If you stopped listening to the constant barrage of propaganda coming out of mainstream media you would know this. But then you would have to become brave enough to actually think for yourself, rather than mindlessly parrot the lies you're being fed. Are you up for it? Because once you look behind the curtain, you can't go back.

@derekcarney

Жыл бұрын

IF your awful misunderstandings cause the destruction of any of his works, you should truly be ashamed of yourself. Horrible essay. Find an actual cause to promote, because trying to smear people who are dead is really LAME. Shame on all of you.

@nbeutler1134

6 ай бұрын

@@derekcarney i think you're a troll but in case you're not-- what cause are we promoting? it's not smearing, because everything the video points out are simply known facts about Dali's fascistic beliefs/tendencies, smearing means FALSELY accusing someone of something. If you've been reading since Star Wars came out, I'm surprised you didn't know that already

To me, this adds depth to Dali’s philosophy and paintings - like what sadness brings to the image of a clown

@derekcarney

Жыл бұрын

Huh?

@parkerstroh6586

Жыл бұрын

@@derekcarney never heard of a clown?

@derekcarney

Жыл бұрын

@@parkerstroh6586 There was one in The Terrifyer that scared me more than Trump and Biden and Hitler combined. I don't get the sad part and what it has to do with clowns. Also, I know about Fancy Clowns kzread.info/dash/bejne/q3mNpaWiiK-2hNo.html

@parkerstroh6586

Жыл бұрын

@@derekcarney a clown is just the mask, there’s a person behind there and they aren’t as whimsical as their image presents also fuck yes fancy clown

Thank you very much for these very interesting insights!

Once again, am grateful to you for your insightful narrative! Always leave your channel more aware and informed. Thank You🤙

I feel like Dali was saying Hitler was a ridiculous person in that he was worthy of ridicule. Dali loved ridicule, and it makes sense therefore that he would love a man who was so ridiculous he was inherently and naturally surreal by definition. Can you really blame a surrealist for loving real-life natural surrealism? That and Dali clearly shows traits of being a troll wayyyyyyyyyy ahead of his time, he trolled the trolls that were the surrealist group

This is amazingly underrated, more people need to watch this. Fascism always creeps up on people's insecurities, telling them the disgusting things they wanna hear, and their passive stance to all of it lets the gross hate take over. Passivity and tolerance towards fascism will always lead to the deaths of many innocent, we must always fight it anywhere it shows up if we value our loved ones.

@cliffgaither

Жыл бұрын

@Blacksun Sigrune88 ● Is that the best you can do ?

@cliffgaither

Жыл бұрын

@Blacksun Sigrune88 :: Your choice. August 3, 2022 ( 4days ago, meaning my response :: "Your choice" was last month ) :: @Blacksun ! Why did you delete your comment ? You pulled the rug from under me ! It looks like I'm commenting to the _invisible_ man. What gives ? Ya can run, but ya can't hide ! I'll find ya, one day ... if not here ... on some other video-commentary ! _Blacksun Sigrune88_ is not a name to forget ! _😁 ( Just messin' w / U, Bro. ! )_

@horrifyinggelatinousblob

Жыл бұрын

I’m Spain the “fascists” were morally superior to the commies that raped and robbed

@33paulx

Жыл бұрын

how many died under communism stalin and mao?

@cliffgaither

Жыл бұрын

@@33paulx :: 100,000,000.00 MILLION is the usually-contrived # the Capitalists push around ! Oops ! Were you addressing me ? You talking to me ?! You talking to me ?!

Thanks for an interesting video. If you happen to see this and can possibly caption Prof. Navarro's bits, that'd be helpful to people who have trouble hearing or figuring out what someone with an accent is saying-- I'm for captions/translations everywhere possible, but statements like especially. The stuff Dali said is disturbing but also read to me very much like a pre-Internet troll. Dali and a modern Internet troll can both use their personas to be whimsical or whatever about their politics, it's just a certain shock value style. I noticed other commenters making the same kind of observation. I find it amusing (but sad) that Breton said he made sure there was no humor at one point when trying to get out Dali's true feelings. This is basically something any professional or hobbyist comedian has said to a comedy friend at some point-- "So wait, this isn't a bit?" Because a lot of outlandish things people say in that community are jokes to get a laugh or reaction, but sometimes the outlandish thing is true. Usually something more mundane than whether you really like Hitler or not. I feel kinda bad for Breton, I think he was trying to do the right thing for years, but going up against a big personality can be frustrating. Someone who knows history better may know if he came across as censorious or witch-hunter-esque at the time or to people later looking back.

Love your video! Wanted to know indepth relationship between Dali and facists and got a lot more than just that! One tip from another videomaker, since your video is on tripod and you dont move, leave the focus on manual, that way the autofocus wont struggle and miss focus all the time.

I feel like the last decade has rendered the word "Fascist" completely meaningless.

The Spanish Republicans were not alone in their fight, as you claim, but had support from the Soviet Union. The Republicans were, in fact, increasingly pro-communist as the war dragged on. So much so that streets in Republican controlled Valencia were renamed to the names of communist figures like Marx and Lenin. It’s a common misconception to portray the Republicans as simply being “Democratic”.

@gaffgarion7049

Жыл бұрын

Well the channel owner is a communist so he doesn't care.

@guillemmoreno5522

Жыл бұрын

True. It's also true, however, that Communists and Anarchists never represented the larger bulk of Republicans at the time.

@gaffgarion7049

Жыл бұрын

@@guillemmoreno5522 Lol you can't be serious!

@SirPercival13

Жыл бұрын

The rising prominence of the communists during the Civil War is due to a number of factors, ranging from NKVD intervention to the PCE's organising capabilities. For instance, the communists produced the most effective fighting forces of the conflict. Also communists want a democracy for the working-class, communism and democracy are inseparable. Please see look outside of Cold War narratives and propaganda

You did NOT have to make a 30 min video. There is one interview. Is one interview when he said he is. That is it. Simple.

You certainly made me rethink my sympathy for Dali, and you gave me a topic to think about for upcoming days, which is "separating artist from art, in case of political art". Thank you so much for this video, it's very much appreciated

@TheHortoman

Жыл бұрын

Who the fuck had sympathy for dali? I guess he never fooled us spanish

@milosevicmihajlo499

Жыл бұрын

Dont worry, you should not lose simpaty for the Dali beacuse of this little new age comunist who tries to put dali to trial again

@TheHortoman

Жыл бұрын

@@milosevicmihajlo499 lol rip dali was shallow and boring nevermind him working for the governmement that ruined my country

@milosevicmihajlo499

Жыл бұрын

@@TheHortoman goverment that saved your country, trust me you guys would suffer under leftist scum

@jackroberts2704

Жыл бұрын

@@milosevicmihajlo499 Sounds like that's just your opinion

Your channel is such a treat.. thank you so much

Hello. English is not my native language, so I have some trouble with accents. Would it be possible at all to create subtitles for when Mr. Navarro began speaking?

Thanks so much for making it clear what Dali was about. I've studied his paintings throughout my painting career, and found minor stories of how he didn't get on with Picasso and the likes. Now I clearly see why. He was playing with fire, and his provocative stance crossed a dangerous line at some point. I always just thought he was perhaps the first troll using surrealism as a means of usurping fascism. I'm convinced he deluded himself into thinking he could avoid the gas chambers whilst steeped in his perverted surrealist fantasies (I still admit I love).

Excellent Work on This One! Thanks very much for making and posting this highly controversial yet fascinating video.

In the beginning I thought this was just an unhinged KZread essay, but this video essay actually changed my mind

It doesn’t matter what his thoughts were in personal life. It is his art, that he is famous for not his political view.

Was not expecting this topic, especially at this length! Just starting the vid and looking forward to it

@TheCanvasArtHistory

3 жыл бұрын

I hope you enjoy! I felt that the accusation was a pretty big one, so it needed a lot of arguments to support it. I hope you liked it! Thanks again for commenting and giving consistent feedback!

I'd be curious to see a review of yours regarding Dali's "Crucifixion" (Hypercubic Body), it's the only Dali painting I ever really liked, and the information provided in this video is making me think what meaning could be hidden within it

@adamoarquitecto5245

Жыл бұрын

Don´t let critics change your vision if your guts don´t belive it. Dali was a genius far from wat most people can understand Dali is above most peoples critical conscience he was dealing with the subconsciense

Excellent video. Thanks for your research and time.

Thank you for making this! I enjoyed while I learned as well, You made me feel start to read Andre Breton, plus he’s interesting man 💘

Great video! I never knew any of this.

Wow I love this channel, glad I found it! Great video. Subscribed!

Your channel is my new guilty pleasure

Picasso lived in France. Lorca was killed. Dalí was basically avoiding running foul of the government in his country so that he did not have to live in exile or die, but instead live lavishly. This is not exactly commendable, but he was no different to millions of Spaniards who did exactly the same thing out of self preservation. Additionally he revelled in irony and parody. The quotes about him hating freedom and saying the fascists were so intelligent was steeped in sarcasm. Basically, Dalí was over and above all, self serving, and would have probably sided with the communists if they had been the ones left standing after the civil war. I recommend watching films by Spanish director Luis García Berlanga for another example of an artist who managed to stay in Spain during the dictatorship while making subtle parodies of the regime, and caricaturising it.

One of your best videos yet! Fantastic work! I will definitely be signing up to your patreon in the near future!

@TheCanvasArtHistory

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you so much Adam! That's very nice of you!

Just discovered the channel. Loving it!

This is, indeed, a scholarly analysis of Dali’s complex political stance, and the young narrator is excellent!!!

@derekcarney

Жыл бұрын

I think you meant pretentious smear campaign. Gross.

@eddiebeato5546

Жыл бұрын

@@derekcarney Salvador Dali is one of my all-time favorite artists.

@derekcarney

Жыл бұрын

@@eddiebeato5546 Then I'd hate to see what you do your enemies! LOL. Just kidding. No, it is good to be open to awful truths. Although, after what happened to some confederate statues and Washington and Jefferson etc. statues and such...I think the movement with this type of ideology today is absolutely DANGEROUS to important artworks and such.

@eddiebeato5546

Жыл бұрын

@@derekcarney I think you are absolutely right, and I should reprimand myself for advancing the agenda of those who hate the Christ of St. John of the Cross by Salvador Dali. The world today is going through tremendous tensions, politically, religiously, culturally and economically, and I think the end of of this era is just around the corner. Like the Bronze Age, our civilization is teetering and tottering into the awful cracks of history. I am sorry Salvador Dali did himself a disservice by not being constant to his personal convictions, his moral compass, but it is even more pathetic when he, seeking the attention of the social media, had to debase himself with self-mocking antics and clownishness unworthy of an artist so supremely gifted. For up today, no one alive can paint better hyper-realism than Dali: just look at his religious paintings. But he left behind a veritable plethora of junky stuffs (including forgeries, early 1980s) trashy paintings, Avant Garde, passing for arts in the depiction of dreams (surrealism) that he was apt to justify as the “baiting potion” for a nihilistic society going to the dogs, and committing suicide in masses (First and Second World Wars). Later on, Dali, a self-proclaimed genius, was keenly aware that as an artist, he was beyond reproach and praise, and so he knew that whatever he painted, as long as it had his signature, could pass for the “work of genius.” But inside, Señor Dali, inflated by his monarchical mentality, suspected a herd-mentality incapable of recognizing genuine works of arts, for to the very end, he admired Diego Velazquez, Vermeer and Raphael, as the supreme visual artists of all times. It is very likely that Spanish philosopher Jose Ortega Y Gasset (who authored the Revolt of the Masses, so prophetic of our times) and Dali knew each other well. They both feared the rule of the mass-man, our hyper-democratic society, which eventually, as evinced a few years ago, would tear down and raze to the ground the once-standing statutes of our indignation. The sad case of Salvador Dali reminds me of landscape artist Thomas Kinkade, whose unbridled ambitions for mundane glories and the blessings of Mammon ($$$), tragically culminated in their own undoings and well-reported wretchedness. Of course, Salvador Dali became immortalized in his masterpieces, but it seems that Fate had to purify him before departing from this world. Stricken with the Parkinson disease, and abandoned in the most desolate of solitary confinement in his castle, he attempted suicide, and was almost consummated by a conflagration in the last throes of his final days. He died of heart failure, and even to the last moment, he was exploited as a cash cow artist.

@derekcarney

Жыл бұрын

@@eddiebeato5546 Ouch- I can't stand Kinkade. Wasn't he in a fire or didn't his room catch on fire around the time of his death? I have a great book about him somewhere that is mostly images of his work, including a number I had never seen elsewhere. I made an appt with the Prints & Drawings department at the Cleveland Museum of Art years ago to view some prints and drawings by Dali that they do not have publicly displayed for temperature control, humidity, and light. It was free to do and so cool. You sit at a table and hey bring out the works one at a time and set them on the table in front of you. You are inches away from them although you cannot touch them. It was incredible. He was hilarious, too. kzread.info/dash/bejne/m4yIlKdyc8bJaKQ.html

Great video, very informative, Thanks a lot.

Great video. Been to a Dali exhibition today that mentioned his fascination with Franco so I wanted to learn more about it. It’s disappointing to hear all of this but that’s reality. I think his celebrity and privilege also had a lot to do with his views. He didn’t have to feel threatened by war or famine so he had the privilege to be “apolitical” and not to think of anyone but himself. His ego and others criticism probably got to him so he just accepted fascism as the way to go. Too bad seeing some comments here not being able to accept that their favorite artist was ideologically a monster. Again thanks for a great video.

@roriksteader

2 жыл бұрын

The falangists were the good guys.

@sudanipropagandist6214

2 жыл бұрын

Ideogically based

@spiritbond8

2 жыл бұрын

it's really not "a shame" considering he is a hack and a shit painter that ruined surrealist art, check out real surrealists before he ruined it forever

@nickkorkodylas5005

Жыл бұрын

Marxism is at least 10 times worse than fascism by death count.

@gaffgarion7049

Жыл бұрын

Why be sad? should he have sided with the bolshevicks destroying the country?

This is deeply enlightening. thank you for your work!

This was a long video, but an excelent one. Most illuminating.

At 09:32 - This is the most simplistic summary of the Spanish Civil War I have ever heard. The Soviet help wasn't little. The 600 T-26-tanks were modern weapons ensuring the material supremacy of the Republic for a very long time during the war. But its true that the Republic was very stupid to trust Stalin and the NKVD with the spanish Gold reserve which was never seen again. Also there were the International Brigades which were significant larger than the irish, romanian or other volunteers on the nationalist side.

@rojorosa

Жыл бұрын

If we're looking at things on a relative basis (which he probably is) the aid sent by the USSR was lesser than that of both the Fascist nations so he's technically not wrong if we'relooking at if that way. Also I'm pretty sure the number of T-26s was closer to 250 to 300 plus 50 BT-5s.

@ferkitchen4111

Жыл бұрын

It doesn't matter how simplistic they make their summaries, it doesn't change the truth that every spaniard knows: They lost and they became the eternal losers of the Spanish contemporary history. They can keep crying all they want.

2:29 I disagree with the first two points as hitler and Mussolini would both be considered Modernists, rejecting any idea of restoring the monarchy, which is this context would be tradition. The only one that really fits that bill would be Franco. This is what Evola meant by referring to himself as a “super fascist”

@Ozhull

Жыл бұрын

He already addressed the difficulty in defining fascism, but I'm glad you were able to demonstrate how much smarter you are than the rest of us morons

@owenswabi

Жыл бұрын

@@Ozhull stay mad

Now I understand why Dali’s Last Supper is next to toilets in the Smithsonian

I shared this with my partner and she is very upset. But hey… There are probably tons of people we admire while their dark sides are unbeknownst to us.

I find Dalis work the exact opposite of contemporary fascist works... At the end of the day he left us with great works of art and three great places to visit.

@TheFreeAdviceMan

Жыл бұрын

Dali was a very disturbed person... All his life! Upon learning that his friend Federico Garcia Lorca was murdered by the monstrous fascists ( 1936 ) during the Spanish Civil War, he exclaimed ... with insane 'joy' ... "Ole!" Meaning ( I am Catalan Spanish/French ) the equivalent of "Wonderful!" or "Excellent!". Nothing about Dali's sadistic outbursts and acts of cruelty ... towards practically anyone and everyone...including such sweet fellow mammals as cats ... and I am and have always been a lover of cats ... in the proper sense of the expression ... none of all those irrational, illogical and senseless ... psychopathological ... exhibited countless incidents throughout his life provides any reason to think Dali was a mentally healthy and mindfully conscious person with sufficient compassion and empathy for anyone at all! That he seems to have glorified his wife Gala means little to nothing; given that she probably was part of the reason that he became less sadistic and slightly considerate in the Autumn of his life: when he became more and more dependent on the mercies and kindness of others. Dali was definitely not a true fascist at all. If anything, Dali exhibited a set of deepest contradictions, and the inner child hiding all along inside him...the one who had suffered one of the most terrifying of traumas by his own parents' absolute primitiveness and selfishness in damaging Dali from the earliest moments, by repeatedly telling him that he was the reincarnation of a previous Salvador...who died at the infancy age of 22 months,,,,whose death preceded his birth by literally 9 months ... WHAT A TOTALLY HARMFUL THING THEY DID TO THE POOR CHILD.! .... Dali was a sequential traumas victim and similar to those who suffer Stockholm syndrome, admired and envied the most grotesquely evil, ruthless persons....fascist leaders.... not because he really meant any of it, but exactly on account of the coping mechanism that he became addicted to...for lack of ever being properly helped by anyone at all. If Picasso or Breton had understood that Dali had such a most traumatising formative period and had never been properly helped by truly considerate super-conscious persons; they might have done what Freud, who was too old and resigned, could have done. Dali would have needed reality therapy.....by. being placed in the home of a family of people suffering from klepto-plutocratic fascism ....preferably a Catalan family! Dali was not a fascist. He was insane and sensed it acutely, but quickly invented a way to hide his insanity. And yet his invaluable insight into his disturbed mind are truly fascinating images that raise a most profound question....perhaps an unanswerable one at that: is the most interesting and shocking art ever the product of a truly balanced person, or is all of the greatest works of art the result of traumas....perceived, real or both? In other words: was Dali truly one of the most revolutionary of artists...or was his extreme surrealism basically the same thing as when a war-traumatised child, removed from relative danger, is given crayons or whatever and encouraged to draw whatever that child wants to? Was it just that Dali was technically advanced in artistic techniques and could express his mind's chaos, his conscious and sub-conscious fears and his hatreds, angst, anxieties and contempt for a World that truly tends to fail to care properly for one-another? Fascism is anti-humanity, anti-spiritual, anti-scientific, dangerously irrational and evil. Fascism is anything that is not real democracy, and that is designed to eradicate democracy, human rights, the inalienable right, freedoms and liberties that all individual persons are universally eternally entitled to, but which are too often denied by the various types of fascists and their dangerously brainwashed, idiotic supporters....from feudal monarchists to theocratic fascists, ultra-nationalists to pseudo-nationalist idiocratic fascist plutocrats....oligarchs and their chosen dictator. Was Dali a Fascist? NO! Was he an anti-fascist? Sadly; he was deep inside....held hostage by his chaotic state of mind! Dali did not lie at all when he stated that he was both a Monarchist and a Monarch of Anarchism...of his own Realm and Mind. Dali's art is profoundly important; as evidence of just how messed up our World was and still is. Only through conscious anti-fascism and total respect and concern for the rights of all non-fascist persons...as well as the rights of the fascist to be placed in a safe place where they can do no harm to others....until their inner child finally is able to break out of their dangerously convoluted mindset and warped world-view. Dali's innermost child did manage to .... unconsciously ... thwart fascism after all, by exposing their dementedness. Picasso was a chauvinist and totalitarianist....and his anti-fascism was thus undermined by his own lack of true enlightenment. Stalin was a fascist, and Stalin's pact with Hitler...through Molotov....was half of what allowed Hitler and Mussolini to be able to launch World War Two. The other half was what fascist Horthy did in providing access through Hungary to Romania and Bulgaria; the mineral and metal and fossil fuel resources needed for the fascists to build their huge array of war machines. And Franco was the fascist who destroyed what could have been a key democracy able to prevent World War Two. Dali was too disturbed to truly understand any of it. The Catalan people suffered horrors and Dali was as blind as a rabid bat flying into the flames of Historically senseless horrors....

@campacolasworkshop6042

Жыл бұрын

@@TheFreeAdviceMan Thank you for your reply, very well thought out & informative.

@shamusson

Жыл бұрын

@@TheFreeAdviceMan Also how tf is fascism anti-spiritual lmfao, bro we here dealing with capitalism, scientific humanism, marxism, materialistic liberalism, managerial consumerism, anti-spiritual my ass

@derekcarney

Жыл бұрын

THANK YOU FOR SPEAKING SENSIBLY.

9:44 > ☭Land Redistribution☭ > "these ideas sound moderate to us" Are you from Cuba?

@MM-vs2et

Жыл бұрын

Are you from North Korea?

Thank you for making this.

I absolutely adore this channel!

Dali just seems like someone who chose to side with the powerful... It shouldn't be overlooked that Dali was an anarchist and supported Trotsky's red army in his youth He may have had disdain for the weak and admired the strong who he perhaps found sublime, which it seems to Eco to be a facet of facism The admiration for Hitler is comprehensible, and not uncommon for someone from the 20th century. Overall nothing really surprising, I just never thought about Dali's political ideas ...although dreaming of Hitler as a woman and obsessing over his skin IS surprising...

@rojorosa

Жыл бұрын

@@okay8136 Ah yes because being a follower of an inherently contradictory ideology makes heaping piles of sense.

@rojorosa

Жыл бұрын

@@okay8136 You do know what intersectionality is right?

@djenniomaricon

Жыл бұрын

@@rojorosa overused ideology for college undergrads

@rojorosa

Жыл бұрын

@Anonymous D?NGO I don't why your saying that to me and not @okay but pop I guess.