Correction, I had forgotten about testing the unswirl in my V400 Review, during that test I used 3d printed tpu gaskets with it, with the gaskets it did beat out the cheater. I was going by how the fan was sent to me. When the new A12x25 come in we will have a head to head showdown between the unswirl and cheater with new prints on new fans with gasket to see who once in for all is the current top dog.

@arnabmusouwir9018

Жыл бұрын

That is going to be such an awesome episode

@Anti-Smart

Жыл бұрын

Put gaskets on both so it's an even playing field.

@barberb

Жыл бұрын

Isn't the point of a turbo fan, not to increase feet per second, but to increase the pressure / velocity of the moving gasses?

@RhoadsChristopher

Жыл бұрын

I saw they made an article about you Jalopnik!

@salimufari

Жыл бұрын

I was most impressed with how tight the output on the Biomass was. Noticeably tight air stream.

Derek deserves a re-test with those gaskets. That was *most* of the air leaking out the sides.

@TurtleGalaxies

Жыл бұрын

Duct tape is always an option! What better application is there for duct tape, than a literal air-duct leaking?

@ryancoates4054

Жыл бұрын

I agree

@andie_pants

Жыл бұрын

✊

@pseudonymity0000

Жыл бұрын

This, the point of a turbo is to convert high pressure air into high flow. That leak would have caused a non trivial pressure drop, which in turn will decrease the flow output.

@StoryMode180

Жыл бұрын

I will say that I'd be interested in seeing some gasket work and tweaking of that fan. I don't necessarily believe it would come anywhere close to beating the Cheater but the design deserves some additional love and screen time in my opinion.

OMG, I can’t believe I made the Showdown! I don’t even care that my Turbinator design didn’t break any records, it was designed for fun and to see what a properly thought out radial flow design could do. Thanks James, you made my day! 🙏

@Lk95rulez

Жыл бұрын

Man, good job on that design. So clean.

@Cybernetic_Systems

Жыл бұрын

@@Lk95rulez Thank you. :)

@Dominik189

Жыл бұрын

The blade angle seems off to me. Did you take your time with a simulation software in the development stage to optimize the flow for the low RPM?

@Cybernetic_Systems

Жыл бұрын

@@Dominik189 I didn't do any simulation - it was just for fun.

@Dominik189

Жыл бұрын

@@Cybernetic_Systems you should, I'm sure the design has more potential than shown here. Proper gasket, a longer, properly optimized intake runner and well optimized blade geometry would really do wonders. It might not beat the cheater but it would definitely come close. Maybe even come in second. It would also be very hard to beat.

I was honestly impressed with the Biomass fan. looked cool and did quite well!

@DerekPetersonLives

Жыл бұрын

I agree, the sound produced was so easy to tune out, and the velocity was insane!

@joe08867

Жыл бұрын

Yeah it pushed way more than I thought it would. Very impressed

@rusg.8347

Жыл бұрын

I was not too surprised personally... The bump on the hub acts like a Noctua fan, helping it take some of the air mass off from around the center of the hub. You would never guess it works like that unless you know about the math.

@dustinroberson1865

Жыл бұрын

@@rusg.8347 That one wasn't the bio mass. The bio mass was the one that had the blades divided out into an inner, middle and outer section with different blade angles

@rusg.8347

Жыл бұрын

@@dustinroberson1865 but looking at the hub it's sometimes the small things that actully make a big difference. So yes it is. Though it may not be the nicest looking spot on the plastic, but it's still there.

Biomass was the most impressive. Visually, it was taking in a lot of air without typical turbulence... and moving it swiftly through, without much exit turbulence. If it were printed with Thinner walls... I think it would have an even greater potential.

@Slane583

Жыл бұрын

I also noticed how you could see the twist in the air that was exiting the Biomass fan, which was pretty neat. It worked really good for just being a random and different idea.

@Sartek

Жыл бұрын

For 52dba, the biomass was surprisingly low key on the sound signature

@Slane583

Жыл бұрын

@@Sartek It was a very interesting and different design choice. Seeing someone go with something other than the tried and true fan blade design was a good change of pace. The open and varied blade pitch design of the Biomass made the exiting air cork-screw out the back nicely. I wonder how affective it would be on a radiator or tower heatsink.

@BRUXXUS

Жыл бұрын

@@Slane583 Hi! I designed the biomass fan and was pretty surprised by the results too! I didn’t have a Noctua fan to test it on, just a DC motor that I printed a hub for to test. I think the fan’s frame helps a lot. Seeing the smoke test and results sort of motivate me to try updating the design a bit. Although, I do sort of wish there would be a classic and open category, where fans can be a bit more defined based on practicality. Haha

@Slane583

Жыл бұрын

@@BRUXXUS It's very interesting indeed. Vastly different than a normal fan. I read a comment on here of someone mentioning maybe thinning out the blades a little bit. Though I'm no engineer myself. I wonder what it would do if you filled in the middle that mounts on to the fan hub and made it into a bullet shaped nose-cone.

The turbo designs will not work very well ever due to the limitations of compressor rpm. They will generate high pressure but low volume until you can get them really spinning. Figure the average production turbo compressor wheel is spinning at well over 60k rpm under load. I love the design and thought behind the designs but they all have the same flaw of needing significantly higher rpm to get the volume. Not to mention the flaw with the wind tunnel itself being 120mm in diameter vs the turbo design outlet being a mere fraction of that size contributes greatly to pressure and volume lost upon exiting a 20mm opening into the much larger 120mm wind tunnel tube.

@talyrath

Жыл бұрын

Yup. If the fans were tested on their resistance to backpressure or flow restriction, this would probably destroy the cheater. As it stands though, it's a Ferrari competing in a tractor pull.

@350speedfreak

Жыл бұрын

Yep. Based the power of the fan, lower pressure high volume is what it’s designed for. Need to maximize the area, not restrict it.

@jwalster9412

Жыл бұрын

A Smaller turbo would work better with less rpm, as far as I'm aware.

@Dominik189

Жыл бұрын

It can work well if the turbine is properly designed for the low RPM of the fan base. It could work, but it needs serious work.

@mariohernandez1111

Жыл бұрын

@@Dominik189 Not really. Radial compressors are not designed for high flow rates, but high pressure rises. If what you want is flow rate, you go axial. There's a reason fans are axial and not radial.

love the biomass straight air flow, looks good

When you get the gaskets, it would be a great episode to just re-test the top 10 fans with the gaskets, plexiglass partition, the new sound setup, and the wind tunnel. The setup has changed so much from season to season I'd love to see if the rankings change too.

Purely educational, I think retesting the turbonator with the gasket will grant designers a data point on how much efficiency they can gain by leveraging the geometry of the gasket.

@goiterlanternbase

Жыл бұрын

Thats only half of the issue. The outlet produces to much resistance. All in all to tight of a channel.

Biomass did a lot better than I thought it would, well done Bruxxus.

@BRUXXUS

Жыл бұрын

Thanks! 😅 did better than I expected, too.

You should have the Turbonator guy redesign the inlet to be longer. With a longer runner, the air approaching the turbine blades would have more velocity and should improve CFM. This is why the inlet of actual turbos are as long as they are😁😁👍👍

@the_chomper

Жыл бұрын

damni love the npc show,good to see our taste is quality.

@Dominik189

Жыл бұрын

Yeah a better intake runner would definitely help

@smallmoe

Жыл бұрын

I wonder if it would make a difference if the spike coming off the back of the fan was elongated to something more like an aerospike nozzle.

@TheNPCShow

Жыл бұрын

@@the_chomper Thank you! ^_^ /

@Deiphobuzz

Жыл бұрын

False. For best flow just a little stack. Never been at the dragstrip? Turbos are just sticking out of the hood.

Gotta see that biomass fan really evolve now.

BioMass! I want to see the evolution of this monster!

Hey! My BioMass entry finally got in! Thanks for testing it. Did better than I expected. :) Believe it or not, I designed it in TinkerCAD, imported into 3D Builder, and used the smooth edges feature to create the smooth lines. I think maybe I should properly model one to be more efficient.

@RedStefan

Жыл бұрын

You did great, I knew it will be good right after the smoke test.

@BRUXXUS

Жыл бұрын

@@RedStefan Thanks! ☺

@user-oc1cp4uf7v

Жыл бұрын

I LOVED THE BIOMASS

@BRUXXUS

Жыл бұрын

@@user-oc1cp4uf7v Thanks! :D I've been wanting to design an "Evolution 2" for it, but haven't had much time. Eventually!

Regular turbo: shtuututu Noctua turbo:

2:30 am perfect for some fans

I highly recommend Teaching Tech's 3d printer calibration guide. It's really good.

@mikeyearwood

Жыл бұрын

Seconded!

@KeithZim

Жыл бұрын

3rd.

@horuswasright

Жыл бұрын

No.

@paulthetexan

Жыл бұрын

@@horuswasright Yes. Infinity no tagbacks.

@jamesg3391

Жыл бұрын

Thank you kindly for this!

0:56 many fans you have tested have variable angle of attack. It is standard practice to decrease angle of attack for parts that are moving faster through the air, and increase it for parts that are moving slower. Almost every fan is shaped like this so the blade closer to the center is tilted more, and further it gets from the center it will be twisted less.

I had an idea… Classes for the fans to compete in. Class C: fans that fit inside the A12x25 frame. Class B: fans that extend beyond the frame Class A: fans that have additional attachments or shrouds beyond the frame. That way you could have a combined leaderboard, and an individual leaderboard for each class.

@mrh5303

Жыл бұрын

It would have the additional benefit of if you wanted to use one of the designs, we could look at the leaderboard for the class.

I'd love to have a fan that's as quiet as the Biomass

@Leadvest

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, we've seen quieter fans, but the way it spreads the load across the spectrum makes it so much harder to pinpoint. Sounds like the background noise of an old office building.

The Biomass looked cool and performed pretty damn good.

Heck some of the other multipart fans need those gaskets too. However the turbinator definitely needs those gaskets as at least a third of the air flow is leaking.

The Turbinator is a turbo, so it's naturally better at compression instead of outright airflow. If there was a way to test the static pressure of the fans, I bet this one would be quite high up there (With gaskets of course)

@manicdan481

Жыл бұрын

The wind tunnel could have some kind of resistance, maybe just a simple 120mm radiator, so we test how well these fans work on water cooling rather than as a case fan. I'm sure a lot of designs would shift around because of that.

@pr0xZen

Жыл бұрын

Could use 2 gutted 120mm fan frames (1" each) to make a very short "tunnel", then hang a cover of lightweight, finely masked screen (to simulate the characteristics of a fin stack or a radiator, instead of a solid surface) down in front of the exit, hinged up top. Then test static pressure by measuring degrees of deflection of that hanging screen. The result metric wouldn't be ideal for comparing with manufacturer specs for commercial fans, but Fan Showdown fans are one-off prototypes in an isolated testing regime, so the test and its results would be perfectly fine for _this_ use case. If you want "the real deal" for testing static pressure with millimeter/inches of water result metrics, you make a closed box for the fan to mount to, with a transparent pipe mounted vertically out of the bottom. The pipe needs to make a 180° U-bend and be open ended. Then fill the pipe up 3-4 inches from the bottom of the U-bend. Run the fan, and the resulting mm/inch delta between the water line on the two sides of the pipe bend is your pressure metric.

We all wanna see the turbonator with gaskets, we understand it won’t beat the cheater but everyone deserves a chance to prove their real potential. Even if it only moves them up 5 positions from 1000 it’s still a improvement. Especially considering how much effort he put in to make it work perfectly with a gasket of some sort in mind.

@LordxJoe

Жыл бұрын

and put a huge pipe on the runner to extend it about 10 inches.

That pitch on the FS1 was nails on a chalkboard Also the biomass fan looks sick and I'd use it on builds even if it wasn't as good at airflow as the original. Might be able to tweak the blade angles for static pressure instead of airflow for a rad radiator fan

The golfball is probably the most misunderstood aerodynamic phenomena. The dimples actually increase drag by creating turbolence, but on a ball shape the turbolent air can follow the curevature of the ball for longer, thus the ball has a smaller wake and the overall drag is lower. If your wake is already small (such as from a thin blade) dimples will only increase drag.

Biomass is just brilliant, varying each set of fins angle of attack depending on how far from the center they are, reminds me of this concept called "Modularization", each set of fins is designed depending on the role they have to develop, the set located farthest from the center has wider angle of attack resulting in much more drag, while in the center much narrower angle of attack results in less drag and less noise, and less material used, so effectively the fins under heavy load are the outer ones and to some degree the middle ones! Brilliant!

I love this show. I know absolutely NOTHING about any of this stuff, but I've been happy to watch since season 1 simply because you make a great show! I'm amazed at the quality improvement of everything, how you learn and change to improve the testing and even including the acrylic screen as well as the tunnel device! Great job as always! Thank you again for doing this stuff!

I wouldn't believe if somebody say to me that NOBODY make this joke before: this channel would have to be called ONLYFANS

I really enjoy this KZread channel/community. I look forward to new fans and testing. I really wish more channels could capture the same vibe this one has. Thank you for your dedication and hard work!

I'm here for the Turbinator. Go Derek, that thing rocks even if it's objectively worse than a standard A12. :)

@totosam8271

Жыл бұрын

He had the fan spinning in reverse. That fan, when printed and done correctly, could inflate and pop and big balloon.

@Cybernetic_Systems

Жыл бұрын

@@totosam8271 when it was powered it did spin in the correct direction.

What the smoke test needs is a laser to bisect the smoke past the exhaust.

The Biomass is really cool! Glad it did so well.

The video quality on this episode seemed especially good, loved all those smoke tests. Great work as always!

As intense as the drama always is with these fan showdowns, I'm mainly here for the awesome 80s style muzak. It never freaking grows old

I didn't expect the Biomass to have such a nice flow.

Biomass looks fantastic, with all the different pitches I think that the sound spectrum would spread out nicely to make a "silent" fan, for the CFM produced.

The BIOMASS blew right into my heart

The Turbonator is a beautiful piece, for sure, but biomass was the most impressive from this episode IMO. Really interesting concept. Worth to keep developing it.

Was watching you about a year ago but forgot to subscribe. As expected, KZread decided to show me other channels. The other day, I just remembered the fan showdowns and rushed here. And oh my! I love growth when I see it. Improvements are everywhere! In sound, studio, production, and even printing if I dare say. Congrats man! Also, I have subscribed now.

Hey James! Simplify3D has an amazing "Print Quality Troubleshooting Guide." You can use the thumbnails to visually identify a printing issue and then click on it to learn how you can fix it. :)

On Biomass, the multiple blade segments with different angles of attack totally make sense. Most blades we see on the fan showdown have a twist to them to give a consistent angle of attack at different radii. The multiple blade segments are just a piecewise approximation of that, using a fixed angle for each segment, but change the angle of each segment depending on its radius.

this was great. also, the propane torch randomly in the background next to the fire playing on the monitor was unnerving :D

nice I was rooting for the Biomass, that design speaks to my heart, and I like what it says.

I don't care what the outcome is, Biomass is the sickest (dare I say, illest?) looking fan!

Gonna say the absolute lack of wobble on the Turbinator in the plexi mount part is amazing!

I would love to see some kind of pressure testing with these fans as well as max air velocity testing. There's more to fans than pure flow rate!

I just sat down to eat after a garbage day, and this was the first thing in my recommended. Thank the algorithms for knowing I needed this today 🙌🙌 (also ty MH for uploading obvi lol luv u bb ❤️)

That was a beautiful showing of what engineering can do. Sure it didn't move as much air as I would hope. But that assembly, so SWEET!

That Turbinator definitely deserves a revisit with a proper gasket on the back. It looks absolutely amazing. Just from the losses to the side I'd say it could go a lot further when properly sealed.

Damn, turbinator works wonderfully! You can really see how much vacuum there is at the inlet. The outflow is nice and stable too. Great job on the design, especially the attention to detail and testing to ensure it would print well.

Biomass had quite an impressive draw range! All 3 of the other fans had smoke that piled up and bounced against the plexi, but nothing escaped the biomass and it maintained a tight spiral out the other end.

Video quality, especially the editing are just on point. Well done. I'm thinking the Turbinator deserves a place on the wall, that much effort doesn't belong in the recycle bin.

Biomass is quite possibly the coolest simple fan design.But that turbinator my oh my that is a beauty. I bet once you get the seals it will drastically improve. It lost so much pressurized air.

The quality of the flow with the biomass was impressive!

That biomass fan performed pretty well and was very interesting. The different blade angles in a one piece print is a relatively unexplored idea on this channel (sorry if i missed some). I would like to see a function over form build using this technique.

That Biomass fan looked like it had a great flow pattern and noise signature. Beating the cheater fan would be nice but it's not the be all end all.👌👍

Glad the biomass did well, it's a rad-looking shape.

Biomass by far has the best smoke in, it would work nice as a case extractor fan

that biomass tho. thats the fan i would buy. it sounds great, and did well.

That biomass is awesome

Finally someone used a golf ball texture!!!! I have been thinking about that for a long time but I haven't had time to make it myself!

Turbinator is great. Immediately wanted one upon seeing. Also what i think you should do is divide designs by sub-categories. Like, based on a standard noctua fan size: "Base, double, triple the height". And sure thing get a "ultra-large". :D That way Cheater is not so unbeatable for some really nice designs.

@3:20 Hahahaha, the screws falling out of the turbo. Awesome.

All these fans are quiet nice, but imho the biomass with its low profile (fits in the dimension of the original fan) and performance (considering the smoke test) is medal worthy.

The ingenuity of the turbo Fan is great.

I loved the turbo design! It even sounded like it!

Biomass fan was suprisingly pleasant sounding. The decibels don’t bother me as much when the fan makes a nice hum, and Biomass has been a favorite so far.

love the channel, keep up the good work, love from australia

My first printer arrives tomorrow and I can’t wait to jump in on this! 👍🏼

Hey Man No praise for the biomass the top fan out of the four. Thats a sick fan.

Turbinater needs a wind tunnel retest with gaskets. Sweet episode!

I loved the turbo design! It even sounded like it!😁😁

Yessss! That turbo is exactly what I imagined 😍

🔥The fire in the background has to go 'till later in the fall. It's too freaking hot to see that in this hemisphere 🥵

That "Turbinator" thingie would be hilarious to place on my case, but it'd probably crowd out all the actual components.

I can't believe you don't have a million subscribers yet 😳

That organic fan looked sweet in action.

printer tips: 1600 or lower acceleration, lower is better but 1600 should be fine on pretty much any printer clean your nozzle and hotend, make sure the PTFE tubing is perfectly flat on the end that goes to the nozzle. For the nozzle, the PTFE tubing, the top mounting point at the hotend for the tubing, the pushfit thingy, tighten them not fully, then heat the hotend to 240, THEN tighten all of them, and press the PTFE tubing down all the way only then. Otherwise, you'll have gaps. For the lock nuts (not the 1 larger adjustment nut if your printer has this setup) at the v-wheels of the Z carriage, Y carriage AND the X carriage, they aren't meant to be fully tightened, or else you'll put too much pressure on the bearings. Tighten so that the wheel moves when the printer (not your hand) moves the axis, but not much further than that. This is major. DRY YOUR FILAMENT. If your filament has been sitting out for a while, especially if it's one of the more hygroscopic ones but this REALLY fucking counts for PLA as well, it'll make dogshit prints no matter what you do. Put the roll (while on the plastic thingy, its fine) in the oven at 50-70 degrees for an hour or 1.5 hours. maybe more if you need it. But heat the oven BEFOREHAND, not while they're in. kitchen ovens overshoot during heatup like youve never seen before. voila, perfect prints. Tune your settings. No, not those settings. The settings you don't think about. You might even need to recompile firmware if you need to change some values for steppers etc. Retraction settings: fix that shit. direct drive needs really fucking low values, while bowden usually needs really fucking high values. Retraction tower will help you with this (cura has a calibration shapes plugin, the github for it has the instructions for each of them, makes life easier). Some setups with some speeds don't even need retractions at all. If you use pressure/linear advance, you dont need as many retractions as you used to, like at all. Maybe not even any retractions. Print temp, retraction, speed towers. Use 0.6 nozzle while using the same layer height, if you use cura. shit works wonders with the new engine. leave "enable bridge settings" enabled permanently in cura. it will know where things are needed for you, you dont need to worry about it. Dual gear extruder. ya need it. but if you have it already, make sure you don't tighten it too hard, not loosen it too much. you want the filament to grip well but not get crunched up by the gears. Switch to klipper. Seriously. fucking out of the box better quality for me, even before I changed any settings from the default config for my E3V2. If you use a BLTouch, you have to calibrate the Z offset for it OFTEN, this is important as hell. idk how easy this is with marlin, but with klipper its excessively easy, and really accurate, AND you can do the babystep method during a print, and use a command to "apply" the offset to the Z Offset when not printing. PID tune your hotend AND your bed heaters, EVERY time you make ANY change to your setup that could in any way, shape or form affect temperature while printing. Even changing your nozzle will require this. (it would also require calibrating Z offset for a BLtouch). Dual 5015/4020 part cooling fans will be fantastic for you. You can run them at lower speed for less noise and better cooling than 1 fan at 100%. 4020 is great, but 5015 is what all the custom ducts support, so its a safer purchase. Ahem. do, uh, NOT use supports, as often as possible! removing supports always leaves scars on your print, and fucks with tolerances and aesthetics, especially if you use top/bottom support interfaces, which usually don't come off when the other supports come off, leaving you with an ugly surface even if you try to cut it away. Thats all ive got off the top of my head, hope some of it helps!

The last time one of your videos showed up on my feed, you had hair. Glad to see you are still at it.

The turbinator needs a retest! It had so much going for it.

@Maccaroney

Жыл бұрын

Lol like what? The only thing it has going for it is that it's cool.

@drumlineking07

Жыл бұрын

@@Maccaroney and that's all it needs lol

Teaching Tech's calibrations tools are handy. Turbinator definitely needs a gasket.

The bio-mass sounded almost silent to me. Was there an issue with the sound for that clip? If not, that would be a win, honestly. I’m rather sensitive to high-pitched sounds, make me exceptionally irritable. Hence the reason the only boosted vehicle I might drive is a diesel.

The Biomass was a surprise for sure!

Im shocked how good the biomass is. Super quiet and moved a lot of air

There is something to be said for designs that produce a more laminar flow. The fan will have greater time exposure to the fins of the radiator vs a fan that kicks the air out in all directions (FS1 vs Biomass).

ngl, the Turbinator has 1st place in my heart as well! Nothing beats ol' stutututu noises

The turbinator should get retested. TONS of airflow was lost out the sides.

I doubt the noctua motor can get enough energy into the flow stream to offset the turbinator's reduced cross section area of the flow channel.

Best thumbnail ever!

Biomass has the potential to be a really impressive design! Look in the smoke test it forms a vortex column of air behind it, awesome.

The new smoke test against the acrylic really shows how bad you need that gasket. I feel like results on a bunch of previous fans would change

For the printer tuning. First off. Use cura. It’s the best. Second. There are multiple tuning things to do. E-steps for x,y,z and e axis. Ensuring layer height it correct. And lastly. To get the best print quality. 0.2mm nozzle with a much slower speed. Something like 30mm/s.

Great videos, love the content. Gotta say, the shaved head suits you man!

there is this print design called a temperature tower that is essentially a tower printed at different temperatures with the temps marked on their relevant block. what this does is that when you print a certain material you can use this tower as a reference as to which temperature works best so that you don't need trial and error. just one temp tower print and you have all the info needed to get perfect prints everytime

I’m terms of print quality. I would recommend trying the beta for prusaslicer with the arachne slicing algorithm to improve small walls like fan blades. I would have printed the turbonator intake without supports with the small intake side pointing up. The prusa with pla can handle it. Where possible, use 3 permitters to prevent infill overlap from showing on the outside. With basically any non mechanical part I run 5% gyroid infill. More permitters contributes more to strength than infill. Besides that I’m very happy with built in profiles with prusaslicer.

Wow every one of those looked better in the smoke test than they actually performed, weird. I expected higher results

@TheRealAlpha2

Жыл бұрын

I've said it in the past that they can look awesome, but if the smoke test creates a chaotic fog then they probably didn't do well. The Biomasss continues that trend. I think from the look of the Turbonator it could do much better with some tweaking.

You should do 2 separate air flow measurements, 1 unrestricted, and 1 with a restriction, so you can also test for static pressure, and that is probably where the turbo design really shines.

I found that fire bucket video and it's genuinely terrifying.

Voting for a retest of the turbinator with a gasket.