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@sebbes333

4 ай бұрын

10:00 Please make a static-pressure test of Anti-Stall: With & Without the yellow ring. To see if it is the geometry of the fan, or if it is the ring, that adds all that extra performance, and how much it adds. Thanks :D

@_WyreTheWolf

4 ай бұрын

Time for you to start watching "The Mighty Jingles". You will get a chuckle or two.

@RobbyRobinson1

4 ай бұрын

I found this game because of your channel and I really love it.

@bojik2616

4 ай бұрын

Curious how much more you can get out of a noctua using wd40 specialist silicone fast drying on the bushing. On smaller laptop style fans i use fot assorted things i get rpm, airflow and qbout 30-40% reduction in amp draws. I am curious if you can see a noticeable change in a non sideblower fan with your airflow and pressure tests

@pwatoscry2087

4 ай бұрын

Thank you for 6 seasons :D

You should test the Anti-Stall with the ring vs without the ring 😄👍

@beholder8467

4 ай бұрын

And maybe a little bit of smoke too.

@CrashPilot1000

4 ай бұрын

My 1st thought as well. Why in the world wouldn't you do that after talking so much about that ring?

@hurrai5519

4 ай бұрын

crazy guy didnt think of this. you add something new, test it test without.

@DUKE_of_RAMBLE

4 ай бұрын

Hell, I'm further curious on what this thing pulls off in terms of CFM! 😅

@No_Way_NO_WAY

4 ай бұрын

Just wanted to write this. Its a super easy comparison test. Should be done with every fan in the showdown. All fans should be tested with and without shroud. Maybe the submitters can tweak their designs based on the results.

I would be interested to see shrouded fans measured with and without their shroud. Another data point to compare.

@802Garage

4 ай бұрын

Exactly what I was thinking.

@spedracer55

4 ай бұрын

agreed

@jacobrollins37

4 ай бұрын

Definitely want to know what the difference is.

@TheRattleSnake3145

3 ай бұрын

No difference as there is no airflow.

To see if the shroud helps on the anti-stall, couldn't you do a pressure test with and without it?

@theshinken

4 ай бұрын

I'd be interested in that as well.

@shankyoncloud7420

4 ай бұрын

That should be a test for any fan that comes with a shroud. Or maybe a shroud design challenge (while keeping the fan the same)

@reverse_engineered

4 ай бұрын

@@shankyoncloud7420Yes! I love the idea of specifically trying to design a shroud. Considering how many people include one and the concern that maybe it's "cheating", it would be interesting to see how much that matters, especially for static pressure. It seems more likely to me that a shroud would matter more at high air speeds than with high static pressures, but fluid dynamics aren't at all intuitive, so it would be interesting to see what happens.

@wombatillo

4 ай бұрын

Yeah. It's a clear 'duh!'.

@azriel5

4 ай бұрын

I like how as he's saying 'it is hard to see if the shroud did anything' as he is pulling the shroud off, and never thought 'I could run a test with the shroud off' lol

I don't know why, but KZread stopped recommending the fan showdown series for a long time. I'm so glad it's still going!

@cadeawesomeface

4 ай бұрын

Literally, I would watch these when I saw them but never realized I wasn't getting them anymore

@azriel5

4 ай бұрын

funny how I completely forgot it existed, and here I am again

I would like to see the anti stall tested in two more scenarios: Without the anti stall ring Without any shroud I think it would be very interesting to see how each component influences the result.

The Raxial was pretty impressive all things considered. I would have liked to see the Anti-Stall tested with and without the ring and the Pressure Master tested with and without the intake cone. Just for fun. Also either that filament hides lines super well or those prints just came out incredibly clean.

Hi, hobbyst engineer here. Ring on Anti-stall will make sense if you test this fan against a rediator with FPI above 16 ar with X-fins :)

@lapin46

4 ай бұрын

common feature on current turbo compressors

The Slim is interesting - it shows that people fundamentally do not understand that weight has little to nothing to do with speed. For a fan it can be 0.1g or 5g - if it has the same form it will perform the same, including RPM. The thing that influences speed is the blade-geometry and how well that profile fits the power-curve of the used fan-motor and controller.

@naomiam687

4 ай бұрын

It would affect spin up speed/time but not top speed.

@laurencefraser

4 ай бұрын

well, beyond there being an upper limit to how much weight the motor can move at all of course.

@RyTrapp0

4 ай бұрын

Land Speed Racing cars are heavy AF - because they race on dry lake beds(dirt or salt flats) where traction is at a premium and they have a 5 mile run up to get up to speed. Just about all the weight they can add is a benefit to setting a high top speed, not a detriment. Even if they were on pavement, all the weight would still help because the wheel driven cars(the fastest of them anyway) are trying to put down 4000+HP through hard skinny tires designed to hold together at 500+MPH lol. Take it ALL out the moment you hit the drag strip though!

@justwinclassic

4 ай бұрын

A bit like a flywheel in a car… the mass difference doesn’t make it faster or slower in top speed, just in the acceleration.

@techno1561

4 ай бұрын

Wonder if it's a bit of confusion from the motor getting bogged down with the bigger fans. Since it's getting bogged down by big heavy fans, logic would suggest that a lighter fan would go faster than normal, except that there's a top speed for how quickly the motor will go.

Hi audio guy here. I feel its worth mentioning that pure DbA isnt a true representation of how "loud" something actually sounds like. Instead of measuring pure DbA id measure the fans noise output in LUFS, which is a measure of how loud something might actually be perceived to the human ear. Id say its worth looking into, even if getting a LUFS reading might be more complicated than just a pure DbA and spectrum measurement.

@Hyratel

4 ай бұрын

pending that (and laypeople knowing what it's talking about), that's why he has the frequency chart. some designs (like the Pressure Master in this Episode) have clear spikes (looks like 30, 120, 480? that'd make it what... 4th harmonic? I'm not an Audio Guy), I'd like to see those LUFS scores against ones with a Noise Only plot (like the Slim for this one. no clear spikes)

@SuperAd1980

3 ай бұрын

As the fans are already different distances from the mic, the test is already invalid, so anything further would be even more pointless

Very neat! With all the talk of "I wonder if this ring makes a difference?", I'm surprised you didn't try testing it with it off. Especially considering how easy it was to remove. Perhaps you can throw that in for the next video?

I was seriously surprised by the Raxial. It was probably the most homogenous looking exhaust I've ever seen on this show.

@cosmic_cupcake

4 ай бұрын

That's probably because the fan blades blow sideways instead of sweeping directly over the Frames' support struts. if the fan was open on the bottom we'd see more turbulence.

The smoke distribution on the Raxial was extremely satisfying.

Anti-Stall definitely looked like it was energizing the boundary layer around the intake funnel. There's a noticeable gap between the sides and the main smoke flow region and the smoke doesn't seem to be losing velocity along the boundary at the same rate as other designs I've seen. Worth investigating further for sure.

@ANonnyMoose5

3 ай бұрын

The Anti-Stall is based on a well-established feature in the design of turbocharger compressors, but we would call it an MWE-slot (Map Width Enhancement). In most designs I'm familiar with, the slot would be further down though, past where the blades start. I wonder if tweaking that would allow for greater static pressure performance.

looking back at the competition, I should've pobably pulled the edge of the shroud over the Raxial's fan blades. That gap is an obvious source of pressure lekage. Still, I'm quite pleased with the noise testing. thanks for getting to my fan so quickly!

@cosmic_cupcake

4 ай бұрын

Also that anti stall ring looks curious, we should investigate further.

It would be interesting to see if there is a difference from the Anti Stall fan wit and without the ring

The only series on KZread I drop everything for new episodes of…

That Anti-Stall is just gorgeous, though.

I watch this show on and off for the last few years now, and it is a little bit like coming home every time. Keep up the good stuff 👌

I like the new "wall mounted" smoke test. It shows thier ability to "suck" air much better than the "floating" setup 👌

What I saw about the Anti-Stall was the intake on the smoke test. The incoming airstream was focused & seemed to have a solid amount of pull. Accelerating the air from several more inches away from the intake body.

You should do a season eventually where you test the best fans from every previous season with every other season's tests. A comprehensive exploration of which fan actually offers the best all-around performance across the board.

This channel is like the warthunder forums but people actually need to construct files to "win" in their theory/argument. Love the community.

Whoa! The fan showdown still continues! I saw all of season 1 and partly season 2... and somehow got lost in the depths of the internet. ...and now the algorithm pusht me here again. you style is way more professional now - i love it! just put all of seasons 5 & 6 to my "watch later" list. will work through it in the coming days. thanks very much for your awesome content!

We need a test with the anti-stall ring off, and one with the triangle holes covered with tape.

Was watching you when you only had a few subscribers, now seeing how many you’ve gained is so good to see! Something different and unique

The anti-stall fan's ring is very similar to anti-surge turbocharger housings, and fills a similar role.

You need to test these WITHOUT the intake shrouds also!

The Anti-Stall isn't really anti-stall, but stumbled on a boundary layer design. The recycled pressure creates a layer of air separating intake airflow from the surfaces reducing drag. Redesign the fan like (or just use) the Slim and it will rage.

7:36 - "I'mma subsiting in a cube. I'mma subsiting in a cellulose cube!"

Best series on YT!

Gear Ratio for the Win! Optimum mix of pressure and dB. When I built my server cabinet, it had space for four case fans. I pointed two in and two out, in a configuration which provided (IMHO) the best cool-air flow to both the processor and graphics card. Here's the Kicker: I wired each pair in series! So, half the flow, but a quarter of the power, and far lower noise. Did my chips overheat? Far from it. The key was finding a case that supported four large fans. As a result, it didn't need a screaming jet of airflow. As they received a steady flow of cool air, the proc and graphics fans were more than capable of keeping their respective components quite cool.

There are some people who invented an "acoustic metamaterial" a few years ago, which looks like a ring with grooves throughout. Nearly all sound within a certain frequency range is canceled out through passive destructive interference. Look it up when you can!

@SilvaDreams

4 ай бұрын

That isn't destructive interference, that is done by playing back the inverse sound wave to cancel it out which is the basis of sound canceling ear phone/buds. What you described is stock standard sound dampening which is used for all sound proofed rooms. As the sound waves encounter the sharp edges it breaks the wave up so it can't bounce off a hard surface.

@AmaroqStarwind

4 ай бұрын

@@SilvaDreams Actually, what I described is *not* sound padding. The ring has channels along its surface through which sound waves can pass through... But only of a specific frequency range. These sound waves then interfere with eachother.

Almost every time I watch one of your videos. I notice that the fans almost always seem to do better when a gasket is used between the fans and the barrier wall reducing the amount of air leakage around the entire fan setup allowing the fans to better pull or push the air better.

I would be curious if we went on an adventure of testing just the intake designs using the top X fans. Seems like there might be a design that works best and might improve fans in general.

Might have been neat to see what happened if you removed the triangle cut outs from the anti-stall or just taped over them. That might show if those cutouts made a difference- I feel like they did though.

Can you re-test the anti-stall without the ring to see how much difference it makes?

@josepheads559

4 ай бұрын

Please

I'm noticing a distinct lack of gasket material in this episode

Just dropping a comment to say I've been watching the series since season one, and am still enjoying it. Thanks for the entertaining content.

Man those prints are so good, so smooth. Really impressed

Static pressure smoke test should be implemented

It would be nice if designs would focus on quiet operation more.

@float32

4 ай бұрын

If one wants low noise, one just attaches a box fan to the side of their computer.

@frankdobs

4 ай бұрын

@@float32That doesn't get rid of heat

@alttabby3633

4 ай бұрын

@@frankdobswouldn't be "low noise" either

@frankdobs

4 ай бұрын

@@alttabby3633I know i use mine for noise canceling lol

Love this series!!

You're putting a lot of effort into making these assembling the setups , collatin the results and whatnot - How consistently do those designs print & mount with/without needing a ton of work balancing them? I'd _really_ like to see you smash it over the line; get some LUFS figures recorded for the apparent noise and neaten up those smoke tests - maybe find a way to incorporate back pressure into those too?

I wonder if Noctua is more focused on dBA than on throughput? Maybe try to match their static result result, with the lowest dBA?

This series is so interesting. Dunno why but I just love the idea of an efficient fan contest.

I'm a simple fan. Somebody spins me, I create pressure.

Love these videos. Later, like next season, you could add a frequency sampler so you can graph the median frequency range with the noise chart. Some of the fans appear quieter than the DB reading suggests because the frequency is not as intrusive to the ear as that generated by other fans.

Can we have a series of fans with bird wings, fish fins replicas?

Awesome as always thanks

You should have done a test with the ring off and with it on so you can know for sure if the ring made a significant contribution to its performance.

Fan weight only impacts how long it takes to get to speed - not max speed which comes from the motor details vs the force applied to the fan by the air.

I'd like to see different "divisions" shrouded fans, normal sized fans, low noise fans ect...

The anti stall Flow test looks really nice

Creative video, thanks :)

It would be cool if once you show the fan scoreboard, you also put in pictures of 1. 2. 3. place just so we remember what best fans of the season look like. Love the channel btw! been watching since forever!

@float32

4 ай бұрын

I would rather see a flow vs pressure curve.

Jet engines intakes are designed to swallow the air at cruise, the increasing area is designed to slow the air for the fan because if the air is moving too fast you can have sonic shock conditions occurring when the air touches the fan blades.

That " raxial fan " reminds me of the cooling fan on late model corvair engines .

I've noticed that there's a relation between the better performing fans and their smoke tests, the better fans seem to better redirect and speed up the air behind them on a clean vortex on the fan hub's axis while the worse performing fans seem to spew the air out more randomly

@Hyratel

4 ай бұрын

I'd like to see some serious engineering analysis of those smoke tests! They're very interesting to watch as an Interested Layperson

YES more New Major Hardware videos ! 😊

I would like to see a comparison of each of these with and without the shrouds. I would be interested to know what the boost in performance is for different shroud styles.

I'm watching this for a while now and my favourite fan will still always be the slug V1. But the anti stall ring still looks kinda nice.

9:58 you were saying its 'hard to see if the ring did anything' as you pull the ring off, it would be easy to see if you just ran another test without the ring for the anti-stall and I would be curious of the results

Would be pretty cool to see a smoke test with a capped off transparent tube to see if it forces the smoke into the tube or if air is going backwards through the fan

I only just discovered the channel, from the video with the big Australian centrifugal mod. Thinking about the basic principles; any normal axial fan has a very limited static pressure capability, as once the air stops moving through it, the air in the blade area just rotates with the blades - most of the force is then radial. Venting (like the anti-stall ring?) to allow airflow past the blades to be maintained is one option. Another possibility, that I don't think I've ever seen in use, would be a slightly smaller fan with a fixed set of stator blades around the periphery to accept the radial flow and direct that to the exit side? Those would be within the same plane as the rotor, with a diaphragm at the inlet side to block reverse flow. Having the outer static blades rather than the normal smooth duct should also interfere with the air in the rotor "spinning" and increase the axial pressure there? I've too many other projects on to take part, but something for other designers to try??

I hope one of these seasons is just the top 10 or so from all previous seasons being tested in each of the different test setups they weren't in yet. find which is best in general rather than for a specific task.

Anti stall design reminds me of the HKS T51R turbo.

Every episode brings me one step closer to start designing a fan of my own.

I’d love to see a test of fan weight vs rpm across different “fan categories” like you had in this video.

You should build a smoke box; an enclosed clear chamber that you fill with smoke and see how long it takes the fans to evacuate the smoke from the box.

I wonder if static pressure is limited by the fan motor itself. Recently built dust collector for my wife and used 3 of these PMD1212PMB1-A(2).F.GN ,I am not expert by any means in ventilation systems, but these seemed to be good for the price and static pressure, as they need to suck air through paper filter, 16,5mmH2O seemed good idea. In the end she is using about 75% of power usually to my knowledge, so pretty much nailed fan sizing. For the reference paper filter is car interior air filter about size of 250x300mm as it defines working area too.

love the channel :D

Cool stuff from all the entries in this one! The Raxial looks really beautiful. Almost wonder how it would work without the back plane taken off so it's more of a standard fan, but same blades.

@cosmic_cupcake

4 ай бұрын

Probably not well, since it goes against a lot of the conventional wisdom of fan design. Then again, I like going against the norm, so maybe I'll mock something up and make a new submission. :)

I think emulating a water jet pump would give you amazing static pressure it might have trouble with RPMs due to weight though

The anti-stall fan is pretty smart, with some adjustments you could probably get even better results.

I think what makes the anti-stall special is that it takes the opposing force and turns it into an assistive force, that's an important principle.

Rando Idea for a new test. Build a plexiglass box with an exact internal volume. Maybe something like half or .75 of a meter or 1 foot (cubed duh lol). Use the smoke machine to fill it. Use light sensors to shut off the fan when a desired visibility is reached, measure how long it takes a fan to empty the box. Might not produce the most scientific data but would be cool to watch and as well could be used for some bar napkin kind of measurements. Also you should have shown the results of the Anti-Stall without the ring to see if there was any difference.

plenty of GPUs still come with blower fans. But they are designed more for use in server racks. Blowers work well, but are noisier

With the anti-stall, I can see how that ring would make some difference where rather than air sticking to the sides of the intake from something like the Coanda Effect, the surface is covered by a thin layer of air moving back into the intake, reducing some frictional losses Not that friction makes a huge difference with these fans but it is interesting

Turbochargers have a similar concept to improve performance at stall, it's referred to as a ported shroud.

Every time the music comes on all I can think about is "The Journey Across DaFan"

have you tested the anti-stall without the yellow ring? that way you can easily tell if it makes a difference

Love how YT put their ads right in the MIDDLE of your Warships sponsorship.

IIRC, the engines on the 707 jetliner had these added intake ports too. Everything old is new again. ;-P

@float32

4 ай бұрын

The Reynolds numbers are ludicrously wrong at these speeds, though.

@wargamingrefugee9065

4 ай бұрын

@@float32Thank you for introducing me to the concept of the Reynolds Number. I learned something new from you.

Would it make any sense to shoot the smoke down from the top in those side-on shots? It would really demonstrate the fans ability to pull in air.

Never change the smoke test music 😊

Something is pushing the smoke away from the edge of the anti-stall keeping the smoke in the centre path. Wonder if this could be taken further and directed back into the fan slightly instead of up and out of the intake? Has a 'Dyson' feel to it somehow.

you should start measuring current draw to see how much load each fan design causes on the motor, it might be an interesting metric

Your fans love Fans!!

I'm curious how well the anti stall fan would perform when made out of one solid piece. It had a lot of wobble, which means it is not as efficient as it could be.

I understood that reference Also you need to spend more time balancing the big boys because most seem to lose because of unbalanced vibrations

that anti-static pattern kinda reminds me of the Eletech Baroque eartips

Anti stall definitely was recirculating the air and had a noticeable vacuum pulling the smoke into the center. Maybe an a12x25 type would fare well

We need FPM data for these fans too! And how they preform without shrouds etc!

id love to see a side by side with antistall with and without the extra ring piece

In regards to The Slim being as light as possible to increase RPM, assuming the bearings are decent, weight only affects how long it it takes to spool up. Air resistance dictates the steady state RPM.

I've been following the fan showdown since halfway into season 1. I noticed that recently, no fans seem to exceed the stock A12x25's rated RPM any more, while in seasons 2 and 3 we regularly saw fans that would spin faster than the A12x25. Now, that might be because of how the fan designs (particularly blade shape) have changed over the seasons, or it might be because the fan motor is starting to wear? Hard to say from my position, but I don't recall seeing a fan in season 5 or 6 (so far) that went up to 2000RPM or higher. A fan like the Slim is probably lighter than the A12x25 and it was designed to allow high RPMs so I'm thinking it should spin faster, but maybe I'm wrong, maybe the motor is fine and the Slim is just not capable of higher RPMs due to its blade shape or something. Anyways, keep up the good work!

i so hope my beast of a fan gets shown someday 😭

I don't think the anti-stall ring helped, but I could be completely wrong, and either way it's great to try new ideas out.

You could do a smoke test when doing the static pressure test, to be able to see the way the air is flowing back out.