Sounds like a classic “Confuseopoly.” Keep things so confusing, that no-one can figure out how they're being shafted.

@clemclemson9259

2 ай бұрын

like the government

@adamkozakiewicz6766

2 ай бұрын

You mean airline ticket pricing?

@jurajchobot

2 ай бұрын

No, it's the audience. For example if 90% of your Spotify streams come from India, where only 10% of people bought Premium and remaining 90% is ad generated, while ads in India pay 10x less than anywhere in the world, you might get paid like $70 thousand per billion streams while if most of your listeners are from rich countries such as US or Scandinavia, you might easily see $3 million per billion streams. Also different platforms such as KZread, Apple music and Spotify have different average wealth of a user, so they will pay different amounts even if you get audience from same countries.

@sixmillionaccountssilenced6721

2 ай бұрын

So basically FED/IMF...

@ericanderson9706

2 ай бұрын

Like the American private healthcare+private insurance system.

People often say that the music industry is corrupt ,.... it's actually the whole publishing industry... Not just the music industry

@Mico-Xiyeas

2 ай бұрын

Any industry if you wanna get into it, entertainment industries wrongs are just more well known simply because entertainment is meant to be popular so its well known and personal so we care. Even then, tons of dirt Is hidden or brushed away. Imagine the rest of the world industries that has no interest in popularity while also obscuring and hiding dirt. Very scary world

@blueeyedsoulman

2 ай бұрын

Most people don't realize how evil they really are until it's shown to them. For example "Did you ever tell a lie?" (Yes, I guess) Did you know that's deception and manipulation and is basically pretending to be God? (Hmmmn, never thought of it that way.) How would you like it if someone did that to you? (Well, I guess not.) That's just one lie. Ever steal something? etc etc. There is no such thing as a good person. Only evil people, some of whom are desperately trying to be good. And therein lies humanity's biggest problem. PRIDE. Anyone who calls themselves good is simply lying to themselves. It's deception to oneself. All this boils down to "Do unto others as you would have them do to YOU." But no one does it all the time. They simply can't. It's not human nature.

@brucetowell3432

2 ай бұрын

@@blueeyedsoulman Well, human nature is the "sin "nature. That's why Jesus had to come and be the perfect sacrifice that those who put their faith and trust in him shall not perish. All who have ever lived have sinned. Only Jesus was perfect.

@AdiHazan26

2 ай бұрын

and beyond

@grantwalkersound

2 ай бұрын

Zoom out even further... It's all of entertainment that is corrupt.

As an independent artist and songwriter for my solo music, I've consistently made about $0.003 per stream on Spotify for the past 4 years or so. $3000 per 1,000,000 streams (Apple Music pays more than double Spotify). Being the only writer for my music, I'm able to support my family with that streaming income. But if I had to split it multiple ways, it would make that mountain so much harder to climb. I feel like being a truly 100% independent is becoming the only real way to make a living off stream as a mid level artist.

@Rem_NL

2 ай бұрын

Tom MacDonald does it very successfully. From A to Z only him and a hand full of family members made him very successful

@steveb6718

2 ай бұрын

Where can we listen??

@ZachWirchak

2 ай бұрын

@@steveb6718 If you search my name on any streaming platform, it should pop up.

@jamesd7678

2 ай бұрын

@@steveb6718you’re kidding, right?

@roberthart4224

2 ай бұрын

Hey, I just went through your website and into spotify, etc... Great music, by the way :) Just curious though... Your top song has like 4 million plays, a couple of other ones have like just under 1 million. I'm just wondering how only 12-15 thousand dollars supports your whole family like you suggest it does? (If it's 3K per 1 million) Or is it that Apple music is the one paying the bills? Just trying to work out your maths to help me know what I need to reach to. I ask as a fellow composer with a family haha. (I write for films and games mostly)

I can tell from my own experience (roughly 27 million streams on spotify with my band over the past 7 years) that after all cuts for label, management etc. we probably have enough money to pay some stuff like small video productions, a touring van for a weekend, merch etc. We are talking about less then 10.000$ gross earnings per year through streaming, split on 5 people in the band.

@mattebaloo

Ай бұрын

Don't you have to pay income tax on it as well?

@1chiTheKiller

Ай бұрын

Yeah that is absolutely inexcusable. Everyone is enjoying your music, and you aren't being paid for the art. This is just another way the industry is working to lessen the value of the artist. No one pays for music anymore so people think it has no value. Oh I paid 10 bucks to Spotify (or however much it is) so that's enough. I don't need to pay anything more. Meanwhile MILLIONS of people are listening to this stuff and the creators of the content are getting shafted completely.

@allenk7296

17 күн бұрын

@@1chiTheKillerhonest question - how is that the industry’s doing? Where we are currently was a direct result of Napster and its clones > most everyone stealing all of their music > the establishment of legit streaming services > pulling teeth just to convince people to pay $10/month, all of which the industry fought against the entire time.

Here's why you can't get a straight answer (simplified version) - Looking at Spotify - Each stream is paid at a different rate. Free tier listener payout is lower than the paid tier. Live in a country where the paid tier is super low, like India? Then your free/paid rates are lower on streams generated in that market. Now, in each market, the streaming revenue is a pool of money. The major labels have negotiated payout rates with Spotify for master recordings. These rates are not public knowledge and they are likely higher than everyone else (because the majors were investors in Spotify and had closed-door meetings in the early days). Those 3 majors get their slice of the pie first at whatever their negotiated rate is. When the label gets theirs, they do the split with each recording artist according to the terms of their contract. Artist hasn't recouped the cost of their record yet? They get nothing. If the artist has recouped and they're on a typical 80/20 deal, then they'll get 20% and the label keeps 80%. After the majors are paid, Spotify takes whatever is left over in the streaming pool and divides by % of streams an artist had on the platform and pays out to the master rights holders through their distributor - from medium labels down to independents on Distrokid. The total size of the pool changes every month depending on how many people stream around the world and how often. That's Spotify. But Apple, Tidal, Amazon Music... well they each have their own rates. Now... that was **JUST** for master rights holders (who own the recording). Songwriters & Publishing is a whole separate thing and flows through a combination of PRO (ASCAP etc.), the MLC ( or other mechanical rights org.) Songwriters do not typically get a % on master revenue. If you wrote the song, own your publishing, performed it, and own the master, then you get all the revenue, but only if you've registered everything properly and know where to collect it from. Thank you for attending my TED Talk.

@shamusenright5387

2 ай бұрын

Great post. Rick should interview you next!

@wetawatcher

2 ай бұрын

Nice work dude.😎

@dsa513

2 ай бұрын

Can you tell me where you have to register your stuff? What organizations? I would be infinitely grateful for information from a gentleman like yourself. 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

@owens4534

2 ай бұрын

People with the mentality of @wordsSHIFTminds is why they think music doesn't pay. Here's a nugget of information. Every time a song is played, money is generated.

@AdeleMcAlear

2 ай бұрын

@@dsa513 I’m a woman. It depends on which country you’re in. You’ll have to do your own research.

The fact that even the people working in the industry have no clue is telling. Looking forward to hearing more.

@krusher74

2 ай бұрын

its not, since record deals began people have got different payments. its not like everybody used to get the same money for each record, cassette or cd they sold.

@williestyle35

2 ай бұрын

As the other commenter noted - it is hard to even estimate because every payment arrangement is different for each writer, producer, and publisher. Then personal agents, managers, publishing agents, the "record labels", and distributers all get a cut of the artists money. It is ridiculous.

@MrSaltybloke

2 ай бұрын

Rick doesn't have a clue about why he didn't get paid any royalties for a song he co-wrote. SMH.

That is one of the reasons I still buy CDs. From what I have heard, the artest gets paid more from CD purchases than from the streaming services, and I want the people who enrich my life to be paid well.

@Martin-fb3ic

2 ай бұрын

❤

@cuebj

2 ай бұрын

So do I. Goes back to 1970s when Brinsley Schwartz were popular but made no money as most people taped their records. I did tape records I owned for use away from the record player

@klinkklankradio

2 ай бұрын

I will buy CDs within reasonable prices. If a physical copy is more than $15, I'll still purchase the artist's music, but either used or digitally (iTunes). Purchasing music is a big help to musicians, however all of my favorites will tell you to support by going to live ahows and buying their merchandise. Those are the 2 biggests supporters over buying their music and/or streaming.

@overtonesnteatime198

2 ай бұрын

cd's might make a big comeback! They got new tech that can apparently hold petabytes on one disc....

@deadpoetlive

2 ай бұрын

@@overtonesnteatime198 That would be one long album

Rick most of the money does not get split between the publishers and writers. Only a small portion goes there. Most of the money goes to the owner of the master recording which is not always the writers and publishers. This is paying the people who put up the money to make the recording not the writers.

@kkeiros

2 ай бұрын

For sure. I was surprised Rick got that mixed up (even flat out wrong)

@criskos2224

2 ай бұрын

Totally agree. The streaming platforms are mostly working for the big record labels and (sadly) not for the writers. Universal Music even owns a percentage of Spotify. Most of the streaming money is made by the labels and looking at the history of the music-industry, there is no reason to be transparent because it might jeopardize the business. The fact that even people high up in the chain have different answers for a very simple question is saying a lot.

@Malakawaka

2 ай бұрын

I'd guess label, producer(s), agents(s), writers, interpreter(s). And if it's a collab between artists that have exclusivity with different labels, then some kind of royalty for each. If your band's name or concept is Simon Cowell's then he earns more than any writer just for the name.

@ChrisTondreau

2 ай бұрын

The people who own the master recording get paid when someone wants to use a sample. Mechanicals and performance royalties are writer and publisher.

@ChrisTondreau

2 ай бұрын

The owners of the master also get paid for synchronization - use in a film, for instance.

“The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.” ― Hunter S. Thompson

@brokenacoustic

2 ай бұрын

"Yaarrgggargagha" Also Hunter S. Thompson

@tonylewis1803

2 ай бұрын

Awesome…..HST was the bomb!

@katielowen

2 ай бұрын

I think you meant to say “-Steve Albini” 😏💯

@brianwood7237

2 ай бұрын

"SWINE!"

@tranceemerson8325

2 ай бұрын

it's because its a marketplace where the customers do not get to decide the value of your work, instead there are a group of gatekeepers you have to work through, and they get to decide if they think your art is good, and not the customer.

Crazy how much things have changed. Back in the very late 90s, I was talking to country artist/songwriter Radney Foster and he said that his mid-level solo hit "Nobody Wins" (one of the most-played recurrent records on country radio) "will put my kids through college." But he also co-wrote an album track on The (Dixie) Chicks' "Fly" record, and that? "Honestly, I never have to work another day in my life if I don't want." The money was in the songwriting.

@kinseymilkbone

2 ай бұрын

Back in the day there used to be these big houses built around the Nashville area that were referred to as Elvis houses. They were built by people who managed to get a track on an Elvis Presley album. It didn't even have to be a single - it just had to be a piece of filler that he used to pad out an album.

@mistermac56

2 ай бұрын

@@kinseymilkbone yep.

@GungaLaGunga

2 ай бұрын

Chris Stapleton i think said one song bought his house.

@rfichokeofdestiny

2 ай бұрын

There’s also that famous Michael Caine quote about Jaws 4: “I have never seen it but by all accounts it is terrible. However, I have seen the house that it built and it is terrific.”

@williestyle35

2 ай бұрын

The songwriter does make good money *if they retain the publishing rights* . The real big money is in the publishing side, that is why you have seen artists like Bob Dylan sell their "back catalog" of songs for millions in recent years. Just recently Motley Crue sold their entire "catalog" including songs, albums, books, and even "live" performances for a large chunk of change.

Rick - I would love it if you could bring on Liberty DeVitto (Billy Joel's long-time drummer and collaborator during the height of his career) for an interview. He was such a great and consistently excellent contributer of great rhythms and drumming on some of the best and most beloved songs of the 20th Century. I'm sure you two would have a very colorful and musical conversation :)

Mr. Beato, your videos are informative, to say the least. I am always learning when viewing them.

Its insane no one can give you a straight answer. A the industry is shady and they really dont want people to know, or B no one has taken the time to figure it out and people just accept it. Hopefully you can bring balance to the force Rick. Good stuff as always.

@dragons_red

2 ай бұрын

My guess is most of them, similar to Netflix with movies, guard their numbers because they don't want the competition to know how their business is doing, and every artist they pay out for probably has a slightly different contract amount that they're being paid, same goes for the advertisers that sign with them, so it can all be quite circumstantial and nebulous, which also works to their benefit

@clemclemson9259

2 ай бұрын

like the medical field...

@damham5689

2 ай бұрын

Has anyone on the money side of music ever given a straight answer to the artist ?

@jurajchobot

2 ай бұрын

No, it's the audience your songs are getting. For example if 90% of your Spotify streams come from India, where only 10% of people bought Premium and remaining 90% is ad generated, while ads in India pay 10x less than anywhere in the world, you might get paid like $70 thousand per billion streams while if most of your listeners are from rich countries such as US or Scandinavia, you might easily see $3 million per billion streams. Also different platforms such as KZread, Apple music and Spotify have different average wealth of a user, so they will pay different amounts even if you get audience from same countries.

@kentjohnson873

2 ай бұрын

It's not amazing. It's 100% by design. The execs know EXACTLY how much they make. They are lying sacks of sh!t.

A million sounds like a lot but it takes a billion streams to make it. A million seconds is 12 days. A billion seconds is 31 years. THAT paints an incredible picture.

@aussieguru01

2 ай бұрын

Just in time for retirement 🎉

@gregmann5687

2 ай бұрын

@@aussieguru01 lol right!

@reginaldperiwinkle

2 ай бұрын

And if a song is say, 3 minutes and 10 seconds long, that is 3,100 years of listening.

@gregmann5687

2 ай бұрын

@@reginaldperiwinkle A GREAT song is great forever!

@DavidDicksRFR

2 ай бұрын

A stream is 30 seconds right?

It seems like the best thing to do is to simultaneously build a fanbase on a platform like KZread or maybe TikTok and then use that to drive album sales instead of streams. Because even only selling 1,000 digital albums at $10 each if it’s self-published is probably going to pay out way more than Spotify will for a million streams. Plus you’d get revenue from the KZread channel you built.

Congrat's on hitting 4 mil sub's, You rock!

My biggest takeaway is that I’m really old and out of touch because Tate McRae has almost 900 million streams and I’ve never heard of her or that song. Now, get off my lawn.

@sovereignbrehon

2 ай бұрын

😅😅😅

@bobleglob162

2 ай бұрын

I haven't heard her song but I would bet you aint missin' anything.

@Firedog-ny3cq

2 ай бұрын

Cue the pump shotgun sounds.

@muziklvr7776

2 ай бұрын

Mid 40's never heard a Taylor Swift song in my life, at least, that I know of. Never once watched an episode of the Kardashians or Survivor.

@nolongerblocked6210

Ай бұрын

Never heard her music either, I'd bet a lot of money we're better off not hearing it

My band had one of the big songs of the mid-80's. I won't say the title. We get around 1.5 million streams a month, 38 years after it was released. I'm the only writer and we own the publishing. Our publishing admin company takes 15%. This adds up to somewhere between 150 and 200 thousand dollars a year. Hope that helps.

@solaris70

2 ай бұрын

the 15 % for the publisher ? is 150k - 200 k per year ?

@dsa513

2 ай бұрын

What publidhing admin do you use if you don't mind me asking?

@GucciButNotGuilty

2 ай бұрын

Say the song title so you can get more streams!

@julianklietz6558

2 ай бұрын

​@@solaris70no, His take is 150-200

@music4life80s2

2 ай бұрын

@@GucciButNotGuilty It's I can't wait by Nu Shooz

As always great stuff from Rick. The topic made me think of all the Apple iTunes 🍏 music - both albums and tracks - I bought for 10+ years ago which kind of vanished the day we all converted to Streaming 🤷🏼‍♂️ I hate the idea of a possesion just disappearing… don’t they owe me something?! 🤔

I never miss a Beato post, and 1/2 the time, when he's speaking of a b-minor changed into a c, with a riff like that in a Beethoven sonata etc...I of course agree...to what, I have no clue, but I feel like I'm in the room, and he cares not if I actually know this stuff...he just makes it so damn consumable. Like a great tune!

What I can tell you is that 1 million streams on Spotify is about $3200 for us. The problematic thing with the calculation and why it‘s difficult to give an exact answer is that the money you get paid depends on the territory. There are countries that generate more money per stream than others. It’s indicated by the price of the relative subscription. We publish through CD Baby. I‘ll keep you updated once we hit a billion. Only got to 100x our numbers 😅

@moonstruckmates

2 ай бұрын

1000x if I‘m not mistaken.

@sonicclang

2 ай бұрын

I go through CD Baby as well. My revenge each month from Spotify is fairly predictable. I get 10,000 monthly listeners, 20,000 streams, and make about $75. Sometimes more.

@hard2c488

2 ай бұрын

Did you have to create an LLC for your band in order to sell merch online?

@Gracchusmusic

2 ай бұрын

@@moonstruckmates We have around 10 million streams on Spotify right now

@Gracchusmusic

2 ай бұрын

@@hard2c488 No. Although there are clear benefits to it. We are in the process of creating one

Love your channel Rick and another great post. Congratulation's on getting to 4 million subs.

Just a suggestion for an interview -- Justin Hayward/Moody Blues. And I still love CDs -- maybe it's the whole package experience that I grew up with LPs.

Nice video set up for your channel, Rick... Looks awesome!

More videos about the business of music is great!

@nobot87

2 ай бұрын

I would rather more What Makes this Song Great

@karleyyork9001

Ай бұрын

Yes.

For all of the people asking about playing on a hit but no writing/publishing credit, you get nothing unless you’re a pro studio cat who is able to include royalties as part of your deal. Even many studio players just make scale and don’t receive royalties even if the song goes big. If you’re in a band concept with a group of friends, make sure you’re all listed as writers.

This, it is an issue that needs to be made transparent and straightforward for everybody. Creating music is a talent that brings so much to so many and deserves remuneration.

Great video, great topic. Respect!

Rick, this was a truly excellent video on the this topic. I have no idea how any of that works and like yourself I've tried to find it out from people to no avail, and they find it even more confusing than you or I do. Please do follow ups on this topic and let us know what you find.

All of the Pro Band Musicians that I know today generally say the same things. "There is no work for Bands and the Music industry is a cut throat business." Thanx Rick for the curious info and You are correct about somebody knows about the money side. It is always "The big secret." 😃

Great video and great insight Rick. You just got a new subscriber 👍🏼👊🏼👊🏼

Great topic, love these new info videos.

I still buy CDs 😊

@bennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

2 ай бұрын

Nice, would you like 2 CDs?

@findinggspots6441

2 ай бұрын

Yep same here!

@gilldavidmour4199

2 ай бұрын

That's right. And you 'own' it. Big difference.

@imjustherefortheks

2 ай бұрын

I have never bought so many CDs in my life as I'm doing now... Both new and used...

@gilldavidmour4199

2 ай бұрын

@@imjustherefortheks A wise move on your part!

Wow dude! you did it, 4M! Congrats Rick.

Thank you for your videos Rick.... You've interviewed many of my colleagues and long term friends & collaborators.... you do a fantastic job & please keep 'em coming! Regarding this video...my understanding is that the performers get the bulk of the royalties generated ...not the songwriters. If an artist like say Elvis has a billion streams he gets the artist performance royalties for those from the DSP's (through his record co or distributer) and then the songwriters like Leiber & Stoller get the Mechanicals for the streams from the MLC which are usually a lot less as you point out so the performer and songwriters are not getting the same royalties however if they are the same person(s) they get it all! My only problem is I am not close to a billion streams yet.... my hats are off to those that can stream that much!!

Rick great video as always! To clear somethings up in what you said, most of the money made doesn't go the songwriters and publishers. There are 2 copyrights in music itself, one for the Musical Composition (Publishers/Songwriters), and one for the Master Recording (Record Label/Performing Artist). As a general rule of thumb, 80% of the money goes to the master recording copyright holder (Record Label/Performing Artist), and 20% to the copyright holders of the musical composition (Publishers/Songwriters). So that $4000 per million you gave, about $3000 goes to the master recording copyright holder and $1000 goes to the musical composition copyright holder. So let's make a scenario, so let's say I'm an independent DIY performing artist, I had 4 people help me write a song (I didn't write any of it), I record the song they helped me write. The writers had no part in the sound recording, and I didn't have any part of songwriting. I release the song and used Distrokid (which collects the master recording royalties), the song gets 1 million streams, I would get (as the Master recording copyright holder) $3000. The songwriters would get $1000 (as the Musical Composition copyright holder) from the PROs and MLC (if your in the US). The songwriters split it evenly at 25% each, so that means the songwriters got $250 each while me the recording artist (the sound recording copyright holder) got $3000. This is just an over simplified explanation The second thing, about the not knowing what the streaming platforms pay and why it's so complicated to know exactly is because it's all negotiated. ASCAP, BMI, MLC, Distrokid, Tunecore, UMG, Sony, Warner Bros, Kobalt, United Masters etc... all have their own agreements negotiated with Spotify, Apple Music, KZread etc. So when you sign up with ASCAP/BMI, you are agreeing to accept whatever they negotiated with the DSPs, same thing with Distrokid/CD Baby/Tunecore whatever they negotiated is what you get. So that's why no one can say exactly what the DSPs pay because it's all different! It's like asking how much rent is? It all depends on the property, location, and what you negotiated with the owner of the property! There is no universal price for renting out an apartment. Hopefully this clears things up a bit, I'm not even scratching the surface with this stuff

All of a sudden the.term Music Industrial Complex just came to mind. Never heard it said before but it seems appropriate.

@Music--ng8cd

2 ай бұрын

The MICrophone

Love the videos Rick!

Great info, Rick, I have often wondered how the streaming money thing works.

Very interesting and open review.. - very much appreciated what you are sharing; Since I am just the "innocent bystander" not in any way in the Music Business - my gut feeling with all this is - I would ask - who is able to achieve 1 billion streams (that are actually long enough to be monetised) ? I guess that's for the already big artists.. - but for an upcoming band or artist?? - and - I remember a video with Steve Vai where he told about his time with Frank Zappa and the greatest advice he got from Frank "Own your publishing!!" .. - you're proving the point here Rick!

I made over a million plays on Spotify with my catalog and that payed a little over 4.000 dollars, so that checks out, now I just have to do the same every month 😅

@ast4127

2 ай бұрын

Congratulations anyway!

@diegooliveirabenjamin

2 ай бұрын

@@ast4127 thank you friend!

Leads me to believe that its convoluted for a reason.

Thank you for being honest, Rick, about the industry and even your own finances, which you are not obligated to divulge to anyone and i applaud your revealing this shady industry! Someone should get enough VCs going into a new platform that presents new music to hear and view and the writers get fair compensation with no bewildering payment schemes.

Thank you for raising this interesting topic. I would say the minimum is around 1800USD for 1mil. streams for all music services annual gross income of the phonogram rights divided by streams, excluding composers and text writers copyrights. The composers and text writers income is extremely country specific. Much more complicated than the phonogram income because of collecting societies lobby power. The phonogram income is also county specific and refers also to the locations where the stream was made and uploaded. We can say that the location based revenue share business model is a partly systematic business model for the phonogram and partly lobby driven business model for the composers and text writers.

"What do you call a professional musician without a girlfriend?" "Homeless."

@romererunamerika9437

2 ай бұрын

lol I like that one.

@zitherzon2121

2 ай бұрын

@@romererunamerika9437 That's because it's a classic. Like maybe from Aristotle or Shakespeare? (Hence the quote marks.)

@SteamvilleQuintet

2 ай бұрын

Overheard at an aged woman's funeral: "Hey maaan, sorry about your Mom. So DUDE!, what's your new address?"

I am grateful for being born in the era of radio and buying vinyl records before the internet.

@joeshoe6184

Ай бұрын

If I had a vinyl copy of all the music I listen to, there wouldn't be enough room left in my apartment to sit down.

@catherine6653

Ай бұрын

@joeshoe6184 I would need a warehouse to store records if I bought all my favorite songs.

@joeshoe6184

Ай бұрын

@@catherine6653 for real! I never really got into vinyl, but I had pretty substantial tape and CD collections back in the days before digital.

@mikeonfreeserve2926

Ай бұрын

​@@joeshoe6184 Not true. You would find your vinyl would fit into a 4 x 4 IKEA Kallax. HTH

Thank you Mr. Beato. This is good information. I have one song on these through Tune Core 50 50 split. Creator and player of guitar and his band doing drums etc. Me playing solo, lead guitar. Last night was a practice disaster on our second one. Some leads I was playing is just not working. Back to the drawing board with a new one here plus fixing that one before release. I am on spotify now, etc. Next is how in the world to get people to see the songs?😮 Hmm. Being listed as Indie Artist etc. Sighhh ... lot of work here. Meadows of Serenity Artist here.

Snoop Dogg popped up on a short yesterday saying he got a billion streams on spotify and it was less than $45,000.

@DickNasty480

Ай бұрын

Anyone who would listen to that garbage needs a full cognitive review.

@Gramercy_Stiffs

Ай бұрын

I think this was contentious as he may have sold the rights to that song, so the 45 was what is left over after that process.

@toocat2000000

25 күн бұрын

That still too much .

@GoranBackmanMusic

18 күн бұрын

Song writers take a bigger cut than the artists for streaming but that sounds like a really low number. It doesn't say much without knowing his contract etc though.

I'm listening to that book right now called "All you need to know about the music business" by Donald Passman and besides the fact that most of the info in there is so complicated and convoluted it makes you want to run away screaming from even trying to write music for a living, the thing he says about streaming, and spotify in particular is that it pays a lot less than you would think because the vast majority of the streams on there are actually coming from free users which means it's paid by ads which is a pittance really. Other service which are premium only may pay better but they're probably having far fewer streams. As it turns out, KZread is the worst in terms of revenue as very few people pay for youtube and there's a lot of music on here.

@bylund77

Ай бұрын

And still: the Most important question is ”Do you own the master?”. That’s the big confusion for Rick, and this whole commentary section. If you own the master (= you uploaded the song via an aggregator, or uploaded your song on KZread) then you’re the master owner = there is money to make. If you’re a writer of a song where a label owns the recording/master = the writers gets to SPLIT a FIFTH of the ”per stream amounts” mentioned in this video. (Via BMI/Ascap). That’s the whole confusion.

This what Im currious about because the next question is how many are "bot" streams and if the streaming services only pay out "authentic" streams and how they differintiate. Playlists stream music 24/7 and how do they pay out royalties for radio play verse streams?

@sovereignbrehon

2 ай бұрын

Great question

Interesting video. You brought up how song writing credits are divided amongst writers in Nashville. How do people who write songs, in general, decide who should get writing credits? I especially wonder about certain bands which may list several of the artists as writers. Seems this might be a grey area in many cases, as to who wrote what and how much. Would love to here you're insight on this.

There is also a difference between countries and currencies. Countries because streaming companies charge various fees for advertisement and subscriptions to streaming platform cost different amounts (in local currency). Plus , even if you consider US streams only, the amount payed for stream vary. It makas a difference if you are a paying subscriber or if you are campaign subscriber. So one stream is not always equal to one stream.

The Nashville arrangement is particularly interesting; I think of Jerry Wexler, who got a songwriting cred for Goffin-King's "You Make Me Feel Like A Natural Woman," just for suggesting the title. In Music City, he'd get a full third of the action!

@urbangorilla33

2 ай бұрын

The title is pretty important actually.

@jimwalshonline9346

2 ай бұрын

@@urbangorilla33 Absolutely

@heythere6983

Ай бұрын

I would reject any song title suggestions, save myself a third of the pie

This reminds me of the VH1 Behind the Music episode with the group TLC. They asked, how does a group who sells millions of records go bankrupt?

@stevenponte6655

2 ай бұрын

That’s because they didn’t write any of their songs. Babyface who wrote a lot of their stuff made millions

@robnhood1416

2 ай бұрын

I heard that artist even needs to pay RIAA to get gold/platinum certification.

@andre.bouchard

2 ай бұрын

@stevenponte6655 ​ Exactly. For reference, i watched a french documentary about a tour of old has-been french musicians and singers and in it two artists were very candid about the money they made. One was a guy i have never heard of who was a one hit wonder, he had a disco hit in the late seventies and his song is in english so it was a worldwide hit (Born to be alive). Since he wrote the music, the lyric and he produced it himself, this one song made him rich and he's spending his old days living in a mansion. He does the tour just for the love of performing in front of an audience again. On the other hand, a very popular singer who had several french hit in the 80s, didn't write any of her music nor lyrics and she basically now live just a bit above poverty level. The has-been tour is an opportunity for her to make good money after the success faded away decades ago

@damon_aaron

2 ай бұрын

In a word: Pebbles. She signed them to a shady deal that kept them in debt. An artist herself, and married to Babyface’s production partner LA Reid, she knew how to take advantage of 3 clueless teenagers.

@freddiwilkins9985

2 ай бұрын

TLC didn't even own their name. It's as bad a deal as the one the Robinson family done on the original creators and members or the Sugarhill gang to this very day!

My take on this is that attorneys are heavily involved and the legal language is so convoluted for a reason. It is for obfuscation so that the publishers rake in more money than is paid to the writers/artists and the writers/artists don't have any clue they are getting screwed over. I dare say that this obfuscation also goes on in the motion picture industry. This is why attorneys that specialize in royalties , whether they focus on the music business or motion pictures, make a LOT of money.

I cannot speak to the music business but can speak about tech startups having started three. Basically the only way developers make any money beyond salary (if the company actually pays this), is if the investors make so much that some of it spills off the table and they don’t notice. Human nature being what it is, one expects the same in pretty much any industry. And, before you ask, we never missed a payroll, and everyone made out OK if the company was successful.

In Brazil the musicians get a cut as well from the songs they played. I’m not sure if other countries are like that.

The best way to take advantage of someone is to make your financial relationship with them so complicated they can't figure out what they should receive. What a racket.

@Mi_Mono

2 ай бұрын

And smaller artists don't actually get that %. Stream royalties from smaller artists actually contribute to big artists actually getting paid more for their "hit" songs. Racket.

@OMGWTFLOLSMH

2 ай бұрын

"A racket" is a perfectly succinct way to describe it.

@gilldavidmour4199

2 ай бұрын

@@OMGWTFLOLSMH Yes! A green tennis racket swatting at dollar bills.

@arthurdanu1809

2 ай бұрын

That's the way the U.S. Federal Income Tax works, too!

@diatonicdelirium1743

2 ай бұрын

@@arthurdanu1809 At least you know how much you pay, just not what for.

Great video Rick, already making plans for when my big one breaks.

Love your content Rick. Inspiring people of all ages to continue with music

Rick, talk to (a) an accountant for a songwriter who has had a number one hit; (b) the department heads of the accounts payable for the streaming service, or (c) the accounts receivable or accountant dept for the publishing firms / management firms. The people who pay the money, and the people who receive the money as part of their jobs would know. It may be something where you have to get info form both payers and payees; also what financial information is publicly available about the financial activities of these companies? Somewhere, Alphabet / Google has to make a public filing with the gov for KZread, and there are public shareholder meeting minutes as well, and quarterly reports (if they are public companies.)

@OhioCruffler

2 ай бұрын

People who know the details probably have to abide by an NDA.

@kinseymilkbone

2 ай бұрын

Back around 1990 or so I had a temp job at RCA Records, aka Where Careers Go To Die. I was only doing some basic data entry, but I was dying to get into their system to find out some of the real numbers behind the label. The job ended before I could really get into it, though.

Rick, I think it would be very interesting if you did a series on the business of music. Also when doing interviews, it would be interesting if you also asked some business-related questions.

I’m loving your interviews with a great amount of my favourite artists. Thank you 🙏🎵😃 Would love to see you interview the following in particular: Dave Grohl & Jeff Skunk Baxter as well as The Eagles as I’d imagine they’d have some great stories and would to know more about when they had individually worked with Steely Dan. I would love to hear stories from all these guys including yourself Thank you 😃🎵🙏

Reminds me of that line in There Will Be Blood - ''What would you give us for it?'' - ''I don't know'' - ''Something you don't know?'' - ''That's right.''

@Alex-cw3rz

Ай бұрын

Reminds me more of the line in terms of the publishers of "I drink your milkshake"

@SeemoreDunkan

Ай бұрын

@@Alex-cw3rz That's a good one!

The fact that no one knows for sure is insane. Someone's making out on it, and it's probably not the artists.

@carstenmoss5025

2 ай бұрын

it never is

@PBLeagues22

2 ай бұрын

Different platforms, different ads rates.

@joecolaninno4195

2 ай бұрын

It is DEFINITELY not the artist.....

@MisterManuva

2 ай бұрын

It has never been the artists. Just like most business models, really. The people actually making stuff that generates money (be it a physical product, artistry or a service) don't get to share the biggest slice of the cake

@Barb.....

2 ай бұрын

@@MisterManuva Yes, that's why I said that.

We need an internaional standard for this streaming stuff! I hope music making will pay off for artists again in the future. I just hate how the quality of new music goes downhill because there is no budget anymore for big productions

Rick is overlooking a main factor! The biggest share goes to the label! UMG, Sony, BMG etc.. they earn the most from streaming! The CEO of Universal Music earned more in 2021 than all the sales and streams of UK songwriters combined!

@bigbaddms

2 ай бұрын

how about CEOs and other execs that still get paid huge money and bonuses, even when their companies do terrible, lose money, layoff people, and even go bankrupt. "Golden Parachutes" pay out ungodly sums. Remember when Michael Eisner (Disney) hired mega-agent Mike Ovitz, and he was a disaster? I think they paid him something like $200MM in a Golden Parachute for 6 months work.

@scottmctaggart8171

Ай бұрын

Ok, so why are Major record labels still makeing this kind of money with so many able to be indipendent artists? Do the tech companies manipulate exposure with algorythms. Do they suppress some artists but promote major label artists and dies radio air play still have a mojor effect on the internet? This leads to the question that is posed when it comes to money. Is there still payola going on? 2. Why are the same artists always getting the big exposure? Sick of hearing the same bands and artist all the time. Thats why I go internet to find new artists in the Independent arena.

@piloadami_

Ай бұрын

Catalogue music, thats how record labels make most of the money and then invest back into artists who might never break it even. @@scottmctaggart8171 Most people/passive listeners are happy to listen to the same old songs!

Everyone needs to go back to the Chuck Berry system and get the cash up front. Great video Rick.

@stevenponte6655

2 ай бұрын

In India writers get an upfront fee. The big ones get huuuuge amounts. Then anyone can use the song, don’t have to worry about tracking plays and payments.

@bluegoose555

Ай бұрын

I once heard CB say he got 1/2 a cent for ever 50c 45rpm sold (1%) and apparently Albert King wanted (and received) $10,000 cash upfront for his session with Gary Moore

I love these videos about the behind the scenes stuff on the industry.

Just listened to a great Interview with Rene Meredith from Exploration on this very subject. MCL’s will depend even on what country is listening to the music/watching videos, etc. and add in different pay out schedules. This all makes it very difficult to get a full number, since you may never get paid from certain regions at all even. Time for a reboot, the rules were made in the early days of streaming.

I asked you about that some time ago and respect for answering that question- I think other asked the same. But what matters is - do you feel better now than before

Would love to learn how bands usually set up legally as corporations? What if key members get replaced due to quitting, get kicked out, death? Band hires a replacement, is new corporation set up? How are the old members treated with royalties, etc..

its .004 across the board for everyone on Spotify, goes directly to the person or company who uploads it. After that who knows

Great atitude from Rick tô open this theme for ALL,there are many with the same doubts

I'd like to know more about the financial side. How much does a band /artist make with streams, physical sales, ticket sales, merchandise etc.? Maybe an idea for future videos?

They used to put only the name of the actual lyric writer in the writing credits of bands, but that person would make a disproportionate amount of money compared to others. The biggest ethical artists will now put most collaborators they can on songwriting, as it makes them some money on all versions, not just their direct interpretation. Divided by twelve: that’s actually the entire point.

You talked about the publishers and writers. Where do the artists come into the equation?

@strandedinparadise8202

2 ай бұрын

I run a community radio station in New Zealand and we pay royalties to 2 different entities, one is for the use of the recording and one is for the use of the composition (the publishing rights). If the performer hasn't been stiffed by their manager or the record company they'll get some cash from the recording rights. There's no guarantee that they do it the same anywhere else though

@stevenponte6655

2 ай бұрын

artist has to be a writer to get a mechanical royalty payment. It’s why every artist insists on having a writing credit. Although in the old days artists like Sinatra never wrote songs but songwriters would have to hand over 50% of publishing if he recorded their song. Still a good deal

@alexanderpetrenko79

2 ай бұрын

@@strandedinparadise8202how much do you pay? How far is it from .001 - 0.004 per stream?

@BJMauck

2 ай бұрын

Good question! I was wondering the same thing.

@joeshmoe7967

2 ай бұрын

If the Artist is NOT a writer, they don't get paid for airplay. In the 'old' days. A non writing Artist would make money from mechanicals, the sale of the record/cd/tape. The publishing would got to the writers. The Artist also made decent money on the road. Now records don't sell much, so no mechanicals. It pays to be a writer, but even now with out hard sales the pay is not as good. For album sales, you as a writer, could have the most mundane 'filler' track, on a record and still make very good money. It is a tough business, and everyone is willing to sell you short for that extra nickel.

Great subject on paying out and I always wonder what about copyrights❤

Hey Rick, very interesting topic and one I think about a lot as well. I think it's even more complicated than you suggest. For instance, writers don't see much of the streaming royalties at all. I've written songs with millions of streams and I barely see a cent. Instead, it's the master recordings rights holders. For example, for my own productions, I own the masters, and even though I have co-writers, the streaming royalties that are paid from my distributor, go 100% to me. Not my co-writers (unless I decide to split master royalties with them). My assumption was there is a small % of publishing royalties that gets paid out to a PRO... which the writers collect. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong...

Rick, my average publishing and mechanical royalty right now from Warner Brothers through BMI is about $1.52 every quarter. And my album was just re-released in Europe, and I got paid $50. I am the writer, I have two musician spots on the record (lead vocals and guitar.) And that’s all I get paid.

@russtyruss_i-Invest

2 ай бұрын

That's pretty sad, but it's the whole reason why I never made any effort to become an artist in that way, I always only did it for my own pleasure as a hobby and still do. I always had to have two jobs most of my adulthood. I put two songs out there for people to listen to for free, I never made even one penny for the now over 26000 plays lol and the only place they can be heard is on N1M and people still ask me how they can buy my songs, yet I still don't even know how exactly to do that because life is just busier than the music business and knowing that it barely gets you a loaf of bread once a month, I'd rather put my efforts somewhere else where I get paid better and more responsibly. The music business is such that it turned off and still turns off massive amounts of people we will never hear about because of its complexity and discouraging nature of cut-throat individuals and groups and associations and managers and whatever others who can be added to the list of sharks out there who make it just a shark-tank world. My songs are probably not the best out there, but they do make it to #1 of top plays occasionally and I did it all on my own, writing, composing, playing, recording in my tiny home studio. I still have a couple of songs in the works, but again, life is too busy for me to be able to assign time to it...and no one is going to pay me to do it lol I'll continue to take my chances investing in stocks instead. Cheers! Just Russ on N1M

@PepperWilliamsMusicBlend

2 ай бұрын

Mickey 'D's is hiring

@Psychodermia

2 ай бұрын

Sounds like my story. 👽✌️

@overtonesnteatime198

2 ай бұрын

Guess what? most of us are making 0$. Congratulations on your Album

@wilkeymusic2

2 ай бұрын

Harsh, but needed to be heard. Too many think a label deal means money. I have so many stories about how this is NOT the case. You’re often better being independent. We need to unite as artists and turn the payout game around ✊🏾✊🏾

I don’t want to brag but my Tunecore account has $104 dollars in it.

@jokoolone

2 ай бұрын

You’re turning into a real music industry typhoon!

@bryanwilliams3665

2 ай бұрын

Golly, almost enough to re string the guitar ?

@moonstruckmates

2 ай бұрын

That is nothing. Mine is at 0,54 cents. Time to invest…into something else.

Well Rick, good timing... my first single dropped and I was wondering this very question... and I still don't get the ISWC and ISRC bit. There's no obvious connection between them, hence you can't track you're earnings...

Would be interesting to hear how much similar hit would have made during the CD period. For artist and for the manufacturing. I bet they all made a lot more. It had to be the perfect business to sell plastic disk for such a high value.

What makes a song #1 anymore? It used to be either record sales or radio airplay. I don't know what it is now.

@alexjenner1108

2 ай бұрын

In the US it's a mix of sales, streams and airplay, and they change the formula all the time, so no-one really knows.

@JosephWalker-ip7pd

2 ай бұрын

​@alexjenner1108 whatever they can manipulate most is what they prefer. Pay per play is alive better then ever today.

Great topic!!! I was wondering why so many hits today have a million songwriters in the credits. PLEASE INTERVIEW MAX MARTIN!!!

@KYLEJT

2 ай бұрын

yes

@alexjenner1108

2 ай бұрын

Mitski currently has a song in the Top 10 of the Spotify global 50, where she is sole writer, sole performer and signed to an independent label. There are still a few that don't have 20 writers per song.

@kinseymilkbone

2 ай бұрын

Some of it has to do with sampled material - after a certain threshold, you have to credit the writers who created the music that was sampled.

Love this content Rick !!! We have the same problem in Argentina. They pay according to what foot "they" got up from the bed.

Great stuff Rick, keep digging please!

Thank you for "Getting down to Brass Tax". This was quick and informative. So many times people over-explain and loose the audience

@TheDesertwalker

2 ай бұрын

"Brass Tacks" to "Brass TAx"...very good!

@almightyantichrist

2 ай бұрын

Gotta love a loose audience.

“This would be a great business if it wasn’t for the artists.” -David Geffin. The powers in the industry is pricing bands out of the business. This needs to change.

Anyone here remember an article in guitar world from the 90s or early 2000s that had a graphic that broke down how much a band would make off of a gold record? It was quite illuminating then, and showed a 4 piece band would only walk away with under 30k. It considered a CD sold at $15 and the 500,000 units sold that made $7.5million. It was and still is unbelievable.

@holygoat

2 ай бұрын

Steve Albini has a great video on YT that breaks this down, too.

@bigbaddms

2 ай бұрын

I remember it! Pretty obvious why playing live/concerts became the main way to make money

Hey, Rick! Streams on Spotify, and Video streams on KZread primarily pay the rights holder of the work. That is, the person who paid for and owns the sound recording/music video. For major label artists, that's usually their record label (there may be an agreement for the label to pay out a share of that to the artist). For an independent artist who owns their sound recordings/videos (like myself), they will receive all of that income. There is a miniscule share of streaming revenues that writers/publishers recieve via ASCAP/BMI (or SOCAN for us in Canada). For a recent release of mine (Wine & Whiskey) I received about $1000 in streaming royalties as the rights owner across all streaming platforms. But as a songwriter/publisher (with a 1/3 share) I've only received only a couple dollars for the performance royalties.

Omg I've always wondered, thank you for making this video!

As an independent artist, Spotify pays me roughly $0.0024 per stream. That fluctuates a bit, but that is roughly it. Almost all of my streams come from Spotify, so I can't really say much about other services.

@tomwright7418

2 ай бұрын

That would be $2.4m for 1bn streams.

@pnwtn

2 ай бұрын

@@tomwright7418 2.4m cents, not dollars I think?

@GregManningVideos

Ай бұрын

.0024 $, not cents.

@stevenwalker2926

Ай бұрын

@@GregManningVideos right: $0.0024.

I would love to see an in-depth comparison of how musicians, bands, artists, & song writers got paid, & how much, between the old era- CDs/Cassettes/LPs vs the new Streaming service world.On a basic level at least. Artists used to get points on sales of a record - labels obviously made the lion's share, the bulk of earrings came from those sales - then there were the licensing & performance royalties for radio & terrestrial plays. ASCAP, BMI, etc. How does that compare to earnings sources today with the vast majority coming from streaming services? How much - if anything do artists make from physical ales any more? And how does recoup ability factor in today?

@timerdmann

2 ай бұрын

When someone bought a physical copy of your record in the past, that person would pay $14.99 (as an example) they would go home and play that record - how many times? Once? 100, 1000 times? Doesn't matter. they paid $15 - how was that split between Label, manufacturing, writers, Recouping advances & marketing costs, then finally paying out the artists? So 1 million physical records sold generated some dollar value. Add to that the royalties from ASCAP, BMI, SESAC (how was radio & bar/restaurant play ever accurately tracked?). Now - earnings are almost exclusively from 'listens'. Which, in this age are totally trackable down to number of times played, how much of a track was played (:30, 2:00, 4:00?), and where in the work that play was delivered.

Thank you. "To those that have, more shall be given." Perhaps you should research and interview people associated with Playing for Change.- Tedeschi and Trucks both contributed to "When the Leve Breaks." What was that worth? Roberto Luti is part of Playing for Change House Band and gets a lot of work. Is he living happily ever after?

the windows 95 computer tracking all this is the real mvp

@stevesheldon8616

2 ай бұрын

And the printouts from the dot matrix printer. (Actually, the U.S. government still publishes its "Confirmation of Traders" report using a dot matrix printer. In 2024.)

I'm thinking about Sting laughing while telling about being able to buy a huge mansion just from the money he got from Puff Daddy's "I'll be missing you"!!!😀

Hey Rick, money is created from nothing when someone applies for a loan , the loan application is monetised ( as a literal book keeping entry) and is then lent to the alleged borrower , this is how the monetary system is kept topped up with extra money , I think this is much more important than profit share in any industry, unfortunately most folks won’t understand what I have said and do will not get the info

It's so interesting that even music insiders don't know what's what! Amazing.

There is an argentinian saying "A rio revuelto ganancia de pescadores." A river troubled, gain of fishermen. That means if you don´t know what exactly is going on with your money some one is fishing there.