"Who are you?" "I'm 9mm." "Do you have the slightest idea how little that narrows it down?"

@Sudno

2 жыл бұрын

At least, narrower than "I'm 7.62mm" - it can be anything from pistol to anti-tank rifle ammo.

@betteroywoth2445

2 жыл бұрын

Yo I had that same though

@Larcona_

2 жыл бұрын

@@Sudno I figure 7.62/.30 is the most commonly used size for conventional ammo.

@leovang3425

2 жыл бұрын

@@Sudno I think you're talking about 7.92 BRNO for the anti tank part. Still a monster of a round for such a small caliber

@pineapplesalad6494

2 жыл бұрын

​@@Sudno But 7.62 is physically narrower than 9mm.

"This is also FMJ even though it doesn't say it." Me looking at the giant FMJ written on the box right where he's pointing... 🙃

@fiiv3s

2 жыл бұрын

Lmao i saw that too

@Njazmo

2 жыл бұрын

If it's written too big, you can't notice it. :D

@maxpulido4268

2 жыл бұрын

@@Njazmo yeah if it's too big, your brain assumes it's a brand logo, and therefore skips it as useless information.

@markharris8929

2 жыл бұрын

Can’t see the wood for the trees as the saying goes. 🤣😂 Another excellent educational video Ian, thanks.

@SamuraiChris78

2 жыл бұрын

Hidden in plain sight! lol

“This is also full metal jacket, although it doesn’t say it on there” says Ian, with his thumb next to the massive FMJ!

@zrspangle

2 жыл бұрын

Came down here to comment this lmao

@lucascurp17

2 жыл бұрын

@@zrspangle same lol timestamp is 5:08

@jesuschrist711

2 жыл бұрын

Right? I thought i was tripping, i had to rewatch it a couple times

@SlickBlackCadillac

Жыл бұрын

He is a master troll

@BubblewrapHighway

Жыл бұрын

I think he was looking among the small text because I almost didn't see it either. 😂

9x39mm is another to add to the list. Essentially a 7.62x39 cartridge necked up to 9mm. The goal was to create a sub-sonic round with the same muzzle energy as the 5.45x39 for use in suppressed rifles such as the AS Val, VSS Vintorez, 9a-91 and their derivatives .

@UXB1000

2 жыл бұрын

Ian had discussed about this with Max Popenker in a previous interview. kzread.info/dash/bejne/qJ-k1NV7n6zTgso.html

@yeetergriffin1586

2 жыл бұрын

Cool round and gun. Insanely quiet too

@kirchgoens

2 жыл бұрын

I fired an AS VAL a couple years ago. It was quite quiet.

@yeetergriffin1586

2 жыл бұрын

@@kirchgoens where did u shoot one

@kirchgoens

2 жыл бұрын

@@yeetergriffin1586 I was overseas and got my hands on one for a day. What I recall was that the barrel was shorter than it appeared, cased in the integral suppressor (which could be removed as part of field stripping). It was 6-7 years ago, so some details are fuzzy in my memory.

As a novice in firearms and firearm history, these educational episodes that focus on a larger theme than single weapon are my favorites. They are filled with super-interesting information in one place. I had no idea so many 9mm types exist! Can you do this for the caliber ".30" because there's .3030, .303, 30-06, and others that I do I'd really like to learn about.

@SkorpzOfficial

2 жыл бұрын

I’ve been around firearms since I was a child growing up in the US and moving to the UK. I didn’t even know about all the various 9mm rounds until like a year ago. That’s why I love anything to do with firearms, there is so much to learn and new interests to find! The best community in the entire world 🙌🏼

@cymond

2 жыл бұрын

Is love to see a 7.62mm/30 caliber comparison video, but it would be a nightmare, since there are so many varieties. I'll get started on a list and update this comment later

@badopinionsrighthere

2 жыл бұрын

Same here, I would love to see more videos on the development of different types of ammunition families, I guess it goes without saying but John Browning sure was an inventive fella

@GigAnonymous

2 жыл бұрын

One problem with the .30 cal would be all the "well known facts" around it that are actually misleading, misinformed, or downright untrue. For instance, it is "well known" a .303 British (Lee Enfield...) or 7.62x54R (Mosin...) barrel will NOT stabilize a .308" bullet. "Of course", your bullet will end up tumbling the second it exits the barrel, and worse, your gun is "likely'" to blow up because the smaller bullet will induce higher pressures. Well, the first part is only true for well-worn barrels with poor tolerances. I have 2 Mosins and 1 N°4, and they shoot 147 grs .308" just fine. As for the second part, it's utter nonsense. Even if the 0.1mm of diameter difference mattered for a lead bullet in a steel barrel (it doesn't), how the hell is a smaller bullet (that will allegedly tumble down the barrel, remember) supposed to plug the barrel BETTER?

@meatmissilef111

2 жыл бұрын

Ian doing a video on .30 would be longer than the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy uncut director's edition.

"this is actually french ammunition." yes, we know ian. its your ammo, all ammo you own slowly turns french.

@spooky4124

2 жыл бұрын

They all succum to Ian's Frenchinizing Touch

@tannermcguire7713

Жыл бұрын

Did someone say they had 7mm French long?!

@roempoetliar7995

Жыл бұрын

like jesus turning water into wine

@rogerpartner2648

10 ай бұрын

Tru dat

@davefellhoelter1343

9 ай бұрын

"I can" Turn WINE ino water? @@roempoetliar7995

Here in Russia we’ve another story about 9x18. After the WW2 there was a lot of German pistols in Soviet Union, that was taken there by soldiers as trophies and souvenirs. And the engineers had to design a 9mm cartridge, that is not compatible with German pistols (which were in 9mm Para), so nobody could use their trophy Lugers and Walters (the biggest concern was that a criminal can somehow get his hands on pistol ammo)

@cactus809

6 ай бұрын

... because the only criminal who was allowed to have weapons was Stalin and his state

@vitiate5093

5 ай бұрын

Sounds about right most authoritarian dictatorships want an unarmed population. Taking everyone’s trophies would anger people and be politically disastrous so the best way to do that would be just make a pistol with a new cartridge that isn’t used by those trophies

@musicandguns

3 ай бұрын

that remainds me that time the Soviet union tried banning every music from outside, including the bettles

This is why I always tell people not to simply use the diameter of the cartridge. The amount of times I've asked someone what kind of gun they have and they say "7mm" is honestly infuriating. There's 7mm-08, 7mm Rem Mag, 7mm Mauser, 7mm Spanish Mauser, 7mm Argentine Mauser, 7mm Luger, and probably a dozen more 7mm cartridges I don't even know about. Or when they say "7.62". 7.62x38, 7.62x54, 7.62x25, 7.62x39, 7.62x51, and again, probably more I don't know about

@potatoes5829

9 ай бұрын

7.62x63 (30-06) technically counts

@WhatIsThatThingDoing

9 ай бұрын

7x41 Lantan, for the first list. Special polish round

@Airon79

9 ай бұрын

I believe there is a 7.62 tokarev or spelled different .

@benjadryl_7393

8 ай бұрын

@@Airon79 the tokarev is 7.62x25

@Airon79

8 ай бұрын

@@benjadryl_7393 Thanks for responding .

5:08 - The folks at S&B tried *so* hard to advertise it is a FMJ bullet, but using the single largest font on the box end and placing it at the usual start-point for reading (top left) to be first-read just wasn't enough :)

@justthesmitty

2 жыл бұрын

Hahaha was looking for this comment after seeing the vid

@jacoblattimore5434

2 жыл бұрын

Lol I saw it too

@ldkbudda4176

2 жыл бұрын

@@justthesmitty Me too! :)

@mattfleming86

2 жыл бұрын

I hate to poke at Ian over that because I do that a lot too. I read the "specifications/datasheet" side and miss the big print or info in a different font. I did notice it here, but well after he had already sat the box down.

@goldenhide

2 жыл бұрын

Tbf I think it does the nice function of being the only readable font at a distance (say behind the counter on a shelf). Sorta turns into an obvious thing so obvious you ignore it up close but can't help but see it from 10ft away Aka "I'm also guilty of this."

That 9mm "confusion" got some people in trouble here in Brazil some time ago, because 9mm luger was basically prohibited to civilians and some CZ 82 marked "9mm short" owners were arrested for posetion of a restricted firearm

@lancekilkenny721

2 жыл бұрын

That's 😔.....

@thewindowsexperience489

2 жыл бұрын

Wow, how did I not know this happened?

@calvingreene90

2 жыл бұрын

Standard government incompetence in action.

@greycatturtle7132

2 жыл бұрын

Ye, it socks cara

@igoranisimov6549

2 жыл бұрын

I have seen 9×21mm IMI cartridge that was introduced for civilian market. It has the same charge, bullet, and overall length as 9×19mm Luger. The only difference is the case length, extra 2mm. The idea was that it could not be used with any NATO 9mm pistol. I think it was used in Beretta 98FS. However, it is not the same as one of the soviet 9×21mm with more charge and armor piercing bullet. (Actually he was talking about it at the end)

I always understood the "designed not to be used in enemy weapons" thing to be bogus fuddlore, with the real reason for the bullet diameter differences lying in a simple difference of caliber measurement methods (Western being land-to-land, Soviet being groove-to-groove) ... but the Winter War thing makes the fuddlore make more sense. Then I also remembered that German 7.63 Mauser can be fired from captured 7.62 Tokarev weapons, eg the PPSh and PPS submachine guns, and suddenly designing your ammunition so it can't be used in enemy weapons makes even more sense.

@itsconnorstime

2 жыл бұрын

Whenever I’ve read accounts of Germans using the Ppsh, it’s always noted they could use 7.63 Mauser. Was it even that common in German use by 1942?

@samadams8355

2 жыл бұрын

I would love to see some documentation on this point. If it really had been a concern of the Soviets, we would expect to see this reflected in their internal reports. I've never heard of any that address the issue of bullet diameter and incompatibility with Western weapons. Pistols have marginal military importance anyway. If faced with a Western invasion of their territory, the Soviets would have had much bigger things to worry about than the invaders being able to use captured stocks of pistol ammunition.

@Halera-

5 ай бұрын

Agreed. Apart for reverse: West measures groove to groove (that is why western "9mm gun" bullet is exactly 9mm) and Russians measure land to land (that is why russian "9mm gun" bullet is bigger to fit into groves).

Thank you for this inventory of the 9mm cartridges. As a French man, I'd like to add something about France laws about firearms. The 9x19mm is considered as sort of a war cartridge. We use categories to sort the types of weapons, and the use of this 9mm automatically puts any weapon shooting it at least in the B category, the same as an AR-15, for exemple. No matter the way the firearm operates, it will be at least a B cat, which is not the case for every cartridges. Other cartridges are considered the same, i.e. 5,56x45, 7,62x39, 5,45x39, 7,62x51 (but ironically not .308 or 7,62x54R). We also have weird laws about firearms, you Americans are not alone 🙂

@ambi_cc8464

Жыл бұрын

.308 is basically the same as 7.62x51 so that's even weirder, ig maybe because .308's are favored for sporting rifles because of the very slightly hotter load france considers that more of a hunting or sporting round? although almost any battle rifle or lmg (that chambers x51) can handle taking .308's in place of them now, and theoretically .308's would have marginally better performance so i don't get why the technically weaker one would be banned, but not the other

@TomiSauvage

Жыл бұрын

@@ambi_cc8464 it's exactly what you wrote. .308 is considered as hunting cartridge and 7,62x51 as military. Gun laws are made by people who didn't ever shoot a gun, to reassure people who are afraid of guns.

@olde4eyes

Жыл бұрын

On the web-site of Beretta several pistols are available both in 9*19 and 9*21 calibres. I expected that the 9*21 calibre was made especially for the French/Italian civilian market, as stated in the video. Can one nowadays in France have a pistol in 9*19 calibre under the same conditions as (used to) apply to the 9*21 calibre pistol? Just asking for a griend … ;)

@olde4eyes

Жыл бұрын

*friend

@TomiSauvage

Жыл бұрын

@@olde4eyes 9x19 is category B at least, no matter other considerations as length or action. 9x21 is not. So depending on the length and the action, it can be cat B or C. Cat C is easier to get than cat B, but the two of them can be obtained for an adult with no background.

Also quick tip, if you're ever shooting an odd ball 9mm at a range where theres lots of 9x19 brass on the ground, lay down a tarp and have a brass spotter. Because when your hard to find, has to be hand loaded brass gets lost in amongst the the rabble, it's gone forever.

@pbgd3

2 жыл бұрын

my ranges your brass hits the floor it aint yours. No time for people picking brass it all gets swept up.

@richardfitzwell6579

2 жыл бұрын

Im glad I dont go to your range

@callumdonington2227

2 жыл бұрын

@@richardfitzwell6579 Same here

@stevepalpatine2828

2 жыл бұрын

@@pbgd3 I have a friend stand next me with a net lol. Never heard of a range that doesn't let you pick up your brass if you want, even if most people don't bother I reload my own, good thing is my buddy owns a gunshop so I've got an arrangement to buy their floor brass cheap, so I just take the lot and pay one of my kids to sort it. I bet your range is selling it. 🤣

@pbgd3

2 жыл бұрын

@@stevepalpatine2828 tons of folks use brass catchers or similar. The range just had do many issues with people delaying shooting to mess with brass so if it hits the floor the brass is swept up and there is a deal with a company that cleans sorts sizes and deprimes. If you want to keep it off the floor and keep it then you need to make sure it doesnt eject forwards onto the range because you do not get to retrieve. Range officer is required to keep the floor clear of loose brass

It’s amazing that the 9mm parabellum hit the sweet spot so early. It was the first 9mm cartridge, and still the last one standing.

@brittakriep2938

2 жыл бұрын

Most common cartridge in current Germany is blank cartridge 9mm Pak.

@davidh9659

2 жыл бұрын

@@lostalone9320 it's basically the most bang for the size and comfortably fits into lots of grip designs/sizes. What's not to like xD

@charlesmckinley29

2 жыл бұрын

@@lostalone9320 “path dependence “

@teacopem

2 жыл бұрын

@@lostalone9320 that's a good answer.

@SynchronizorVideos

2 жыл бұрын

@@lostalone9320 Wide adoption certainly helped the 9x19mm's success, but even in a vacuum the round really is a good design that balances power, control, and capacity at a point that just works super well for a lot of people. Design choices like a flexible case length-to-OAL ratio, relatively high working pressures compared to its contemporaries, using a rimless case and headspacing on the mouth instead, and committing to a power level above what blowback designs could easily handle; all of that turned out to be right in line with how gun designs would evolve over the years. And improvements in bullet technology really gave it a great performance boost in more recent decades.

"Comrade, we need submachine gun." "No need, comrade, have Kalashnikov." "Comrade, we need sniper rifle." "No need, comrade, have Kalashnikov."

@tedarcher9120

Жыл бұрын

Same with a machinegun

@starliner2498

Жыл бұрын

@@tedarcher9120 and a shotgun

For the newbies: 1 Grain is approximately 64.79mg. It's quite a lot of energy moving down range. Stay safe!

@peghead

Жыл бұрын

7000 grains= 1 pound

@hschan5976

10 ай бұрын

American measuring units continue to amaze the world😂

@prizrak-br3332

9 ай бұрын

@@hschan5976 Actually it was the british that came up with that shit, america just stuck with it for some reason.

@alexmason5521

8 ай бұрын

@@prizrak-br3332the us has tried to switch and is de facto mixed in metric and imperial units.

@kornaros96

8 ай бұрын

@@prizrak-br3332 because they are stuck in colonial times

So many 9's so little time

@tomwilliams8675

2 жыл бұрын

😁😅🤣

@wiledman2430

Жыл бұрын

Solution: glock 18

@Comfort031

Жыл бұрын

@@tomwilliams8675 000000

@CrudeSkiMask

10 ай бұрын

Ayo?

@WhatIsThatThingDoing

9 ай бұрын

9x99 when

There is also a relatively new Russian 9x21 that aimed getting higher power handgun cartridge. It is not widely used but there are few interesting handguns made for it. And also a 9x39 subsonic used by special forces but that's whole another type of ammo

@ForgottenWeapons

2 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/ooF705ShdrfUprA.html

@alcedob.5850

2 жыл бұрын

@@ForgottenWeapons oh, I missed this episode somehow. Popenker is an interesting guest. Thank you for having him.

@rustem123ful

2 жыл бұрын

@@ForgottenWeapons Max Popenker actually mentioned why 9x18 Makarov is 9.2 in this video.

@onpsxmember

2 жыл бұрын

@@ForgottenWeapons Any idea when the avtomat book and dr. shush come out? Next year?

@betteroywoth2445

2 жыл бұрын

The 9x39 is SP-5 / 6 Is the only ones that I know

Asking for 9mm in a gun shop is like going into a car rental and asking for a Chevy, it really doesn't narrow down the selection by much. 9mm confusion has caused some inexperienced shooters to have more than a few accidents over the decades. This video is very informative and should help people understand the issue, hopefully before they are hurt. Thanks Ian

@prizrak-br3332

9 ай бұрын

It's not like the inexperienced shooter will watch this video anyway.

@Dang_Near_Fed_Up

9 ай бұрын

@@prizrak-br3332 Sadly you are not wrong. Too many times the very people who need help are the ones who will not do anything to get that help before they make a bad situation worse.

@jimdavis6833

8 ай бұрын

Almost al 9MMs of today are Luger or Parabellum, which are the same, so it would only apply if you were looking for a unique ammo to use in a unique gun. In that case, you would know already what you needed to ask for. I have a .32 S&W revolver, which is unique, as it's far different than .32 ACP.

@prizrak-br3332

8 ай бұрын

@@jimdavis6833 I've seen some .380 ACP pistols made in europe come with 9mm curto/kurtz on them. It's not out of the question for some guy who doesn't know any better ask for 9mm thinking it's the same. I mean, he is not wrong that it is 9mm but not what will come to mind if you ask for 9mm in a gun store. Same thing could happen with .32, .38, etc.

@marcusborderlands6177

6 ай бұрын

@@prizrak-br3332 worked at a shooting range and had to explain to a lot of people that 9mm kurz is in fact .380, its just the european way of naming it. same iwth 9mm browning. we sold a bunch of european brands of ammo that were marked like that. Also had a guy come in with an ancient 380 marked as 9mm browning and he was so amazed we had any i had to ask if he knew that 9mm browning was in fact 380. dude had been searching for only 9mm browning marked ammo for years lol. When i told him he could google further questions in the future he told me that google would send his info to the police and have him raided if he looked up firearms online (despite the fact that he lived in CA, so every ammo and gun purchase was promptly given to the CA government)

9mm Super Cooper... Guns & Ammo, December 1973... Sometimes called .38 Super Cooper... With a 125 gr bullet, he was getting around 1750 fps -- 850 ft-lbs... I converted a double stack M1911 to it a couple of years ago... Use a .38 Super barrel with a recoil spring a couple of pounds heavier... Take .223 brass, cut it down to 23 mm... Resize the brass with the .38 Super dies, using the shell plate for the .223 cartridges...

I was working in a sporting goods store and had to explain how 9mm Luger, 9mm Parabellum, and 9x19 are the same. I would get the funniest looks.

@con6lex

2 жыл бұрын

When I introduce people to firearms, I have to warn them that cartridge names are not super accurate. 38 special is similar in power to 9x19, but much bigger is size. 357 Magnum is much more powerful than 38 Special. Etc.

@trooperdgb9722

2 жыл бұрын

@@con6lex 38-40 is a 40 cal, 38 Special is .357 while 38-55 is .381...the 219 Donaldson Wasp, 220 Swift, 221 Remington Fireball, 222 Magnum, 223 Remington , 224 Weatherby Magnum and 225 Winchester ALL use .224 diameter projectiles... lol.... Never ending fun!

@JohnHughesChampigny

2 жыл бұрын

@@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz 9mm Luger is for your Luger, 9mm parabellum is for when you're going to war, 9x19 is for when you've got a ruler, 9mm NATO is for annoying the French, 9mm OTAN is for annoying everyone else.

"Is 9mm a big cartridge?" "Depends on context. 9x19? No. 9x39? Yes"

@andrewromig9753

2 жыл бұрын

I'll see your 9x39 and raise you a 9x57 Mauser!

@the_senate8050

2 жыл бұрын

@@andrewromig9753 I'll see your 9x57 Mauser and raise you 9.3x74R!

@andrewromig9753

2 жыл бұрын

@@the_senate8050 That's cheating! :P

@the_senate8050

2 жыл бұрын

@@andrewromig9753 Still rounds to 9mm ;)

@UXB1000

2 жыл бұрын

*laughs in 9x51mm SMAW*

Wow, I never knew the 9mm had such a rich history and variety. Thank you for a great video.

@petrkdn8224

2 жыл бұрын

Those are just 9mm pistol rounds... there is also 9x39 ... And another 9mm pistol round is 9x21 Gruzyia or whatever it's spelled

"This is actually FRENCH ammunition..." as literally nobody is surprised that Ian has French 9mm Luger.

As someone that doesn’t know much about firearms in general, and pretty much watches Gun Jesus for the history stories, this adds another layer to which I want and need to learn. All those 9mm variations are confusing.

@jstud999

2 жыл бұрын

Don’t feel bad man. Most “gun guys” couldn’t name more than one or two of the cartridges in the thumbnail. Most only know 9x19

@joelrodriguez9661

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah dont feel bad. Was only familiar with 3 of those cartridges. 9mm Para, 380 ACP and 9mm Largo. Didn't realize that 9mm Makarov was actually 9.2mm, until Ian shared that bit of info.

@itself227

2 жыл бұрын

At least you're not trying to banish firearms from the face of the earth like other people who don't know much about them (btw I don't think there's many people who know as much as Ian)

@Hellsong89

2 жыл бұрын

Dont worry, here i was thinking i knew lots about the firearms.. sure i know the guns pretty well though there is still plenty i have never heard about but ou boy when we go to ammunition just the different calibers alone are overwhelming let alone things like what ammo works with what guns, for instance i just recently learned that you can fire 7.62x53R from 54R rifle no issues, but on other way around you must be able to easily close the bolt or whole thing might blow up. Then there are the ammo type differences and weights of different bullets, differences between primers and top of all that there is manufacturer tolerance differences, wear on the guns and such things... For most people that is not issue, just get to store and buy ammo that fits to your gun and stay with it, but to find best possible result and avoid the worst.. dear god that it lots of knowledge... And of course you need to filter all the miss information from the info you find, like "222 or 223 can shoot 300 blackout just fine, try it" NO dont, that caliber for some mystical reason fits to magazine and chamber, but it will definitely blow the rifle on your face..

Shame that the Hungarian law doesn't allow private citizens to transport defused munitions abroad, even with the right paperwork, otherwise I could more than happily send a 9 mm (9×25)Mauser cartridge to you.

@jdm1066

2 жыл бұрын

How does it compare to 9x25 Dillon?

@mikepette4422

2 жыл бұрын

ahhh of course Hungary because of the Danuvia submachine gun. Very cool weapon and one of my fav guns.

@kaksidaksi3455

2 жыл бұрын

Its a shame that the rest of europe has such strict gun laws.

@dwwolf4636

2 жыл бұрын

@@kaksidaksi3455 Czechs....

@TheNocturnalEvil

2 жыл бұрын

@@jdm1066 There's no comparison between them. The 9x25 Mauser was a good round but the 9x25 Dillon is a pure monster. The 9x25 Dillon is a bottleneck round. The base and rim diameter of a 9x25 Dillon is higher than the 9x25 Mauser. The 9x25 Mauser can propel a 123 gr projectile at a maximum velocity of 1362 fps, while the 9x25 Dillon can propel a 147 gr projectile at 1495 fps. There are lighter 125 gr and 95 gr Dillon projectiles out there which attain even higher velocities.

The 357sig is also a 9mm cartridge. The “357” in the name was intended to reflect the ballistic similarity to the popular .357magnum, but the bullet in the sig is .355 in diameter - the same as 9mm parabellum.

@sr7312

2 жыл бұрын

I worked with this fellow in the Navy who had bought himself a semi-auto pistol in .357 (Sig). Only .357 he knew of was Magnum so he bought the wrong ammo for the gun! I tried to tell him but he wouldn't listen. Perhaps he learned when he finally attempted to shoot it.

@dirtfarmer7472

9 ай бұрын

@@sr7312 You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink

@maximilianmustermann5763

5 ай бұрын

Isn't the .357 mag bullet the exact same diameter as a .38 spec bullet? But they didn't want to call it .38 magnum because they thought people would blow up their .38 spec guns with the new magnum rounds? Not sure if this is true, but that's what I heard.

@kenchilton

5 ай бұрын

@@maximilianmustermann5763 The .38 Special is much older than the .357 Magnum. Smith and Wesson released the .38 Special in 1898 to replace the .38 Long Colt in the US military. It was never what we would call a “magnum” cartridge. Bullet diameter does not determine whether a cartridge is magnum. A magnum cartridge usually uses a hotter primer and faster burning powder to achieve the higher pressures that define a magnum round. The .38 Special was never in any way a magnum cartridge. The first magnum cartridge, the .375 H&H Magnum, did not come out until 1912. The .357 Magnum was developed by the famed Elmer Keith along with Phillip Sharpe and Col. Wesson and introduced in 1934. Yes, the bullets are the same basic diameter. Note that this diameter varies slightly even within either cartridge, and handloaders often play with the diameter and bullet shape and hardness to affect accuracy in these calibers. However, even with the bullets at the same diameter, the cartridges are vastly different lengths. In general, the firearms at the time made for the .38 Special could not fit a .357 Magnum in their chamber, so there was no danger of anyone mistakingly using the higher pressure cartridge in their .38 Special. This is still generally true today, but it is always highly recommended to check the markings on the firearm and any available documentation and ensure that the right ammo is being used in any firearm. The .38 Special kept the “38” of the Long Colt, but the bullet it uses is nominally .357” in diameter. Keith, et al, went with the actual caliber and not the historical cap-and-ball method of naming them through the heeled bullet era into the turn of the century. In essence, S&W stuck with the “38” to make it clear to everyone that their stretched bullet was intended to replace the older “38” applications. Keith and company invented the .357 Magnum, so they got to name it, and went with the newer method.

@marcusborderlands6177

3 ай бұрын

​@maximilianmustermann5763 357 is the same diameter as 38 special, however 38 special is actually a 0.357in diameter bullet. The name 38 comes from the old 0.375 diameter heeled bullets used in.38 short colt, which were eventually switched out for non heeled 0.357 diameter bullets. .38 special was based on .38 short colt or one of its descendants, I don't remember, but it got it's name from there.

I have a broomhandle 9mm Export that I've been able to reload for. First I take a 9mm Magnum brass and cut it down to size then I clean it up and reload it. I've been working up loads on it with FMJ tops, but originally that cartridge had steel tops. It's fun to be able to work my broomhandle. BTW bro, thanks for the "Low Down" on the 9mm. I did a lot of research when I was working on my export as it got a bit daunting with all the different 9's cartridges and uses. Thank for putting it all together.

Years ago I picked up a Spanish Destroyer carbine, it is 9mm Largo and was issued to the police. It is kind of a mini Mauser but only has the bolt stem as the locking lug (bought it primarily because it was about $175 and came with an unopened case of 1000 rounds of surplus ammo), So much fun for plinking I latter got a Star Modelo A (1911 clone) in the same 9mm Largo but also marked for 38 Super. Both work great.

@tarmaque

2 жыл бұрын

The Spanish Destroyer carbine is a neat little rifle in an unfortunate cartridge. You _can_ get it rechambered in 9x19, but I don't think it's worth the cost. Unfortunately the build quality in them varies wildly since many were made in essentially a variety of garages in Eibar Spain. The fit of the bolt in the receiver varies, as does the quality of the steel. Otherwise they're a handy little carbine. Note that you can use regular 9mm parabellum dies to load for it, and brass is available from Starline. I generally load mine subsonic because then it's fairly quiet (although not quiet enough to forgo hearing protection.) Not the most accurate plinker in the world but fun as an inexpensive big bore. Personally I would be reluctant to shoot 38 Super in the thing. I'm not confident at the strength of those locking lugs.

@PantsSteve

2 жыл бұрын

I shot a Star Modelo A. The trigger was ass

@denniswilson9317

2 жыл бұрын

A couple years ago I bought a Star Modelo B and for a minute before I could research it I thought it might take Largo, but soon learned that's the Modelo A. I am glad I bought it when I did. According to the one's for sale that I have seen lately the price has gone up (like almost everything else).

@teamcybr8375

2 жыл бұрын

This comment hurts my fucking soul. I'd be thrilled with 1000 rounds for $175 even without the gun

@RedXlV

2 жыл бұрын

@@teamcybr8375 Well in this case you'd need the gun as well, unless you already had an Astra or Star chambered for 9 Largo.

Love these types of videos - by the way, in the early 90s I was at a gun shop looking for Soviet pistols (you love French, I love Russian weapons) ... I saw a shelf filled with Makarovs. All were the same price ($127.00 "out the door"). One caught my eye. It was the ONLY Mack made at the IZMASH factory WITH a factory-made .380 barrel. Same price, so being a fan of .380acp, I snagged it up - also remember, during the Soviet era imports of ammo such as 9x18 Makarov was rare. That pistol became my EDC and I carried it 24/7 (yes, kept it under a towel when taking a shower). Decades later, when requalifying for my CCW, the instructor looked at my pistol and off-the-cuff said, "Oh, I love these, especially the made in Russia marked and, did you know that a very few were made in the factory for export in .380acp?"... I showed her the markings on the very worn finish that shoed "Made in Russia" the date and ".380acp"... she nearly fainted as she gasped, "I've always heard about these, but NEVER in 18 years have seen one, may I?" (meaning "take some shots with it") ... I let her enjoy the range. She then pulls out her .380acp Browning and says, "You get this Browning and $800, a free CCW class and I get that Makarov!" Many, many years later, I have that Makarov disassembled, in preservative oil (where needed) and tucked away in a safe. When I got divorced, did the ex-wife demand the Volvo or Mercedes? No, she demanded the Makarov (she loved it, too). The judge made an arrangement: I get to keep the Makarov, but if I ever want to get rid of it, she has to approve. HER word is final... and if I die, she gets the pistol on the condition it goes to our son should she pass. On top of all that, IF she sells it, she owes our son ten times what she sold the pistol for, paid in full withing 6 months of her selling it. She swears she would never sell the pistol, for it means too much to her, too. No, not because of what the range officer told us... but because that pistol saved my ex-wife and our son during a home invasion upon them. They are alive today because the flawless functionality of the Makarov in .380acp stopped three armed home invaders in their tracks (I was away on business in California... CA does not recognize Nevada CCW permits and I was not going to carry illegally). That "Baby Nine"... 9mm Kurz"... the "wimpy nine"... it saved my family's lives and totally stopped the invaders. That Mak means more to us than the value of the frearm.

@leovasquez5501

2 жыл бұрын

Great story! Thanks for sharing :)

@wesleyroberts7119

2 жыл бұрын

My dad also had a Makarov in .380acp. Nobody ever believes me when I tell them that. Without a doubt they always say "no, you mean 9mm Makarov" when I assure them it was in. 380acp they always roll their eyes and give me this look like I have no idea what I'm talking about. Unfortunatly he sold it several years back.

@XxNoPantsxX

2 жыл бұрын

Deciding custody of a sidearm during a divorce is the most american thing I heard today, hah

@pdubowner

2 жыл бұрын

Awesome story!

@hernandovillamarinbuenaven7476

2 жыл бұрын

Great story!!.. 🤯

This is GREAT! I wish I'd had this succinct presentation available when I re-entered the world of firearms ownership in 2001. Most of the information here I picked up, a bit at a time, but I was pretty much in the wasteland when I started. While not specifically a 9 mm issue, the simple explanation of the rimmed vs semi-rimmed vs rimless cartridges, in terms of magazine function, took me a LONG time to figure out. Very much appreciated.

Anyone looking for some point of reference for how powerful 9mm Mauser Export was should note that certain loadings of .357 Sig match the ballistics of it almost exactly. Having shot a .357 Sig, I question if it was really the cartridge having too much recoil or if it was the design and shape of the C96 that exaggerated the recoil

Couple of years ago I went to the local authorities to get my paperwork ready to pickup a CZ Shadow 2 and told the lady to issue me paperwork for a "9mm pistol" She put in "9mm AE" which is probably the first entry in her list alphabetically when looking for 9mm. The dealer realized this and I had to drive 1h back to the authorities to get it corrected. Lesson learned there - everyone is talking about the 9mm but it's not that obvious to some people.

@AgentTasmania

2 жыл бұрын

Lack of diligence on firearms admin, nothing bad could come of this, don't worry about it or spend breath asking for details, just pick the first one on the list

@stevepalpatine2828

2 жыл бұрын

You need paperwork to buy ammo lol? I feel for you having to deal with that bullshit.

@WodanLive

2 жыл бұрын

@@stevepalpatine2828 this was for a pistol - but when buying a firearm the caliber has to be defined in the permit. You can then get a stamp that allows you to buy ammo for that firearm/caliber with no further restrictions

@stevepalpatine2828

2 жыл бұрын

@@WodanLive Got ya. Yeah that makes more sense, I just got the impression you had to go file paperwork everytime you wanted more ammo and had to wait for it, that seemed like a huge pain in the ass, I see what you mean now. Hey hows that Shadow handle by the way?

@WodanLive

2 жыл бұрын

@@stevepalpatine2828 Absolutely in love with the Shadow 2 .. even got a second one (optics ready) and got a 6" slide made for them so I can shoot it in precision competition.

0:00 intro 0:38 ones he's not going to cover (9mm glisenti/.38 ACP) 1:22 9mm Luger 5:22 9mm Largo 7:01 9mm Browning Long 10:11 .380 Auto/9x17mm 12:08 9mm Mauser Export 13:38 9mm Steyr 15:50 9x18mm Ultra/Police 18:08 9x18mm Makarov 21:15 Others that he doesn't have (9x21mm/9mm Winchester Mag/9x25mm Dillon/9x23mm Winchester) 24:28 outro

@ForgottenWeapons

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks! I'll put those in the description; didn't think about it when I was posting the video.

@Pigness7

2 жыл бұрын

No problem 👍 great video

I've been around firearms my whole life, but I still learn something from every video. Your presentation is outstanding. I love how you break the guns down and really show how they work. Have to admit I'm a little jealous of some of the firearms you get to handle and fire.

Thanks Ian. An informative and entertaining vid as always. It's good to have some idea of the varied and obscure origins of all the 9mm rounds that have made themselves known. History always has its little quirks and it's always a joy to find out about them.

Well, the Soviet Union did decide to make its main mortars in 82mm for the reason you give for the larger bullet diameter if the 9mm Makarov. Everyone else had 81mm, so captured ammunition FROM the Soviets couldn't be used against them, but the reverse didn't hold. It is possible to fire an 81mm round from an 82mm mortar, all be it with a reduced range.

@sergeireischel1610

2 жыл бұрын

Mortar shells were a thing, but the real reason for 9mm PM to suddenly be 9.2 is a different one It's actually happened because of a difference in caliber measuring methods between countries. In USA and most of the NATO countries a caliber is measured as a distance between opposing bottoms of grooves, while in Rusian Empire-USSR-Russia - by opposing _lands_ of grooves, and cuz a bullet diameter is bigger than that distance in order for grooves to cut into the bullet's jacket - that makes all russian actual bullet diameters slightly bigger than declared gun calibers It was a thing for 1891 Mosin 7.62x54r, so you can't blame soviets trying to deny enemy use of our ammo (not to mention that caliber is not the only cartridge dimension)

@solidoxygen7873

2 жыл бұрын

Albeit* That's very interesting

@yoboikamil525

2 жыл бұрын

The soviets are pretty smart now that I think about it But still you could just adopt their cartridges

@sergeireischel1610

2 жыл бұрын

@@yoboikamil525 Always has been)

.357 Sig probably deserved a mention, since despite its name meant to evoke a revolver cartridge it shoots the same projectiles as 9mm Parabellum.

@MarvinCZ

2 жыл бұрын

Ian announced at the start that he won't go into these cartridges. He covered only those that are actually called "9mm".

@JD-tn5lz

2 жыл бұрын

Didn't stop him from mentioning the .380ACP... Yes, for .357Sig he should have made an exception. It meets all the other parameters of the calibers he mentioned except the naming convention. More likely he didn't want to antagonize the 9mm luger lemmings by introducing a 9mm cartridge that completely outperforms 9mm luger.

@MarvinCZ

2 жыл бұрын

@@JD-tn5lz But this was all about the naming convention, not the parameters. The question asked was "Why are there so many calibers called 9 mm" ?

@MarvinCZ

2 жыл бұрын

@@JD-tn5lz The .380 ACP is also called 9mm Browning, 9mm Kurz, 9mm Short... It's all about the name.

@micahj9828

2 жыл бұрын

I know. I was like, "Why isn't he talking about the bestest 9mm? The bastard son of the 9mm and .40S&W?" Sig even did us a favor by not putting a 9 in the name. Some dudes will only shoot something with a 4 in the name, but 357Sig has us, "Eh. Close enough. I guess this is OK."

THANKS for including the 9mm WinMag! I owned 2 of the AutoMags and reloaded using custom ordered dies and Starline 9mm WinMag brass. I started out using 9x19 dies and "short stroking" them. Yes, I mangled some brass finding the "sweet spot" but it worked very well!

Ian never ceases to amaze me with his knowledge of firearms and cartridges.

The 9x23mm is also a fully rimless case, basically an improvement on .38 Super (A semi-rimmed case based on .38 Browning Long/ACP) Ironically, .38 Super is still around, and 9x23mm is slowly dying out.

@Hidalguense

2 жыл бұрын

We have to keep 38 super alive.

@Ashcrash82

2 жыл бұрын

It looks like 9x23 is slightly longer (~0.5mm) than 38 super, and since 38 super went fully rimless eventually, I suppose there just wasn't enough incentive to alter firearms that were already chamber for the 38.

@Psiberzerker

2 жыл бұрын

@@Ashcrash82 That, and it was also an extremely narrow niche round, that had no appreciable advantage in competition over the firmly established round (.38 Super.) Basically, nobody really wanted to rechamber their .38 Super guns in 9mm Super, and spend the money on the more expensive round, when .38 super already does the job, well, and you can actually get it.

@sethrich5998

2 жыл бұрын

Well the 9x23 Winchester is also loaded to higher factory pressure than .38 Super. There’s also .38 Super Comp which is the rimless version of .38 Super. And .38 TJ which is essentially the same as Super Comp. There’s actually a ridiculous number of only slightly different cartridges around that “9mm Major” threshold for competition shooting.

@Psiberzerker

2 жыл бұрын

@@sethrich5998 Yep, from what I hear, it shot flatter too, but not enough to get new sites, new barrels, and new ammo, at the ranges that IPSC generally sets their targets up (Well under 100 yards/meters) It was basically too much money to spend on minimal returns. Also, the fact that they were both called .38 Super, and 9mm Super, while not quite being interchangeable was potentially confusing.

Som useless trivia, The "swedish K" submachine gun used a 9x19 round known as m/39B. We had LOTS of this ammo in bunkers. In the 80´s we had the finnish Lahti pistol, but it was getting old. So the military started to look for a new pistol. The police already had the Sig 226, which the folks in boots hoped to get to. But alas, testing showed the Sig didnt handle the m39/B. That round had a slightly hotter load. In order to use up all the old ammo, we got the Glock 17, which handled the stored ammo. I didnt cry, carried the Glock for ages and was happy with it. This is not a new thing. When sweden got the FN Mag (m 240) in 58, they came with 6,5mm barrels. Not until all the old mauser ammo was spent did we get 7,62mm barrels for it. The beancounters!

@RedXlV

2 жыл бұрын

I always thought it was a step backwards when Sweden switched from 6.5x55 to 7.62 NATO. Maybe not for machine guns, but for rifles anyway. Imagine a G3 in 6.5mm.

@josephahner3031

Жыл бұрын

I wish more governments would be as thrifty as the Swedish instead of trying to spend our way into hyperinflation.

@bullzebub

Жыл бұрын

heh. when i did my service in the early 2000s i found a couple boxes of 6.5. so i guess the stores of 6.5 where huge

Ian, the fact that you look like Wild Bill Cody and I'm getting all this wonderful education and advise from you is visually awesome. I love your videos and share them with my sons and nephews. As a reloader, I played around with creating wildcat cartridges, my favorite was the 9mm X .223, 9mm case with a 5.56 NATO projectile, it looked lethal not sure how it would feed though, The .45ACP X .308 was a fun one too. I tried the lightest projectiles I had, never had any barrels created for them, although I have a Thompson Contender and could get barrels made for my wildcats someday.

This was an absolutely great video! And it's always a delight to see such nice footage of one of those old Bergmann pistols!

5:05 "This… is also full metal jacket, although it doesn't say it on there." - the box literally has "FMJ" in large letters in the upper left corner. Sorry, Ian, but opportunities to correct you on anything are rare, so it's good to relish them. 😆

@mrs.vasquezz

2 жыл бұрын

FMJ

I never realized 9mm Makarov and 9mm Ultra are slightly different. I have a commercial Makarov pistol I bought many years ago and I’ve been shooting 9mm Ultra through it all this time. Probably a good thing I wasn’t trying to shoot the larger ammo through the smaller bore gun!

@snek9353

2 жыл бұрын

Woops, people have been known to fire .380 from the Mak as well

@mpk6664

2 жыл бұрын

@@snek9353 probably because there's maks chambered in .380 as well

@Gieszkanne

2 жыл бұрын

Why, 9mm Ultra is much more expensive. And because of the smaller diameter it must be very inaccurate .

@fryingpanhead8809

2 жыл бұрын

Those lousy commies thought they were being slick.

@ambi_cc8464

Жыл бұрын

@@Gieszkanne .223 is smaller than 5.56, and theres almost no accuracy issues with it in guns that are popular to use both cartridges interchangeably in, like an ar15

Thanks, Ian. Your knowledge and ability to explain and, where necessary, condense the information in your videos is unmatched by any other YT channels. Very informative and easy to digest. Great work 🤙

As a firearms enthusiast I'm so glad I discovered your channel. This is great educational content and so fascinating. Thanks for your work.

I can listen to this stuff all day. I love the period of 1890 to 1930 where it seems everyone was trying new things and there was just a riot of innovation unhindered by practical experience :)

@stinkmeaner3016

2 жыл бұрын

And in the 40’s the Germans procrastinated and didn’t get a lot of their homework in on time. They had some good designs. MG 42 is still in use (some variant of it) today I think.

@boxcarz

2 жыл бұрын

@@stinkmeaner3016 Yep, the MG3 is still used by the Bundeswehr today.

@Halinspark

2 жыл бұрын

It was also largely because patents. You couldn't use the good ideas unless you wanted to pay for them, so most people just kept designing alternatives while they waited for the good patents to expire.

Good stuff! I’d happily watch this for all sorts of calibers. It would be interesting to see ammunition grouped and compared by other measures, like muzzle velocity or projectile weight. I’m not sure how far we are getting from “forgotten” but it’s pretty clear that’s a heuristic, not a firm rule, and I entirely agree with the utility of that approach.

@andywindes4968

2 жыл бұрын

Pick up an edition of Frank Barnes “Cartidges of the World.” Great reference source for stuff like this.

Good breakdown and discussion. The explanations were poignant and had enough detail to make it interesting without bogging down into specific details. Well done I am looking forward to more of your fun and informative talks. Keep up the good work

Glad you touched on the 9x18 Makarov. I was unaware of the slight size difference. And was considering reloading. Thanks

Italy actually removed the restriction of 9x19 as a military caliber. This was during early 2021 if I remember correctly, though I am unsure if that was just the vote for it and if it is coming into effect later or if it is already in effect.

@scipio10000

2 жыл бұрын

It has by the upper house in June this year. In fact an high court had already pointed out that the rationale for forbidding tbe 9mm luger was baseless, since it is no more powerful/letal that 9×21mm.

@RandomUser-cx9kn

2 жыл бұрын

It isn't. It could be in effect in early 2022 if all goes well.

@ScottKenny1978

2 жыл бұрын

@@RandomUser-cx9kn hope that clears up for you guys, so you can own the classic Beretta 92!

@maledetto1221

2 жыл бұрын

False, it was presented the request to do so, the last month it passed the Senate and now it's going to be debated in the Chamber. Probably it's going to pass but we don't know until 2022

@maledetto1221

2 жыл бұрын

@@ScottKenny1978 They just modify the chamber to get 2mm more of space and they are already sold to the public

Another great video, but don't forget the distinction between 9x21mm used in countries like Italy and Israel and the 9x21mm 'Gyurza' round developed by the Russians to be anti-body armor, with the capability of causing a substantial wound to an unarmored target. Definitely would love to see you hands on with weapons like the Russian SR-1 pistol and SR-2 Submachine gun that use this round!

@wastedyears282887

2 жыл бұрын

Came to say the same thing.

Always excellent explanations. I have followed your channel for years. Please keep it up

I hear these blow the lungs out of your body

At the very least, 9mm makarov adjusted case dimensions to make it not tapered which lets it feed in magazines a bit easier, which might have been the real reason why they went to 9.2mm

Ultimate flex would be "Hey, look at my pistol, it's in 9mm. 9x39mm that is."

@Sosaparks

2 жыл бұрын

Matt Robson “If a drive-by happens and no one was there to hear it, did it really happen?”

The .356 TSW was worth an honorable mention. I shot IPSC in the early '90s and purchased one of the .356 TSW guns for IPSC competition. Really a nice gun to shoot. I purchased a couple thousand rounds of ammo and saved my cases for reloading as I used to shoot several hundred rounds a week back then. Interestingly when I chronographed the 124 gr hollow point ammo I had purchased for the gun it ran quite a bit slower than the 124 gr FMJ ammo. I called Federal and they said it was to keep the bullets from fragmenting in flight :eek. Typically loaded the 147 gr TMJ for competition use - really knocked down the steel poppers.

Love that Ian has started to use timespamps now!

Not only did we chuckle at guys who would come in and say, "Give me a box of Nine!" when I was a Junior Merchant of Death (tm), but I even saw a guy bring in a piece for consignment that came with a loaded magaizne that had no less than *three* different flavors of 9mm in the magazine - 9x19mm, 9x18mm (Makarov), and 9x17mm. Which was hilarious, being it was a rather worn 9x23mm Largo caliber Spanish 1911 looking pistol (I don't recall the exact model), and it didn't have Largo ammo.

@Psiberzerker

2 жыл бұрын

I've heard this goddamned stories so many times, right down to the "Junior Merchant of Death." It wasn't you. So, I'd suggest you stop claiming Trademark rights (When that would be Copyright) over actual arms dealers. Chances are, they won't find out about it, or do anything about it, but still. We're talking about just about as insanely stupid as trying to load 9mm Makarov in a 9mm Largo. (Or Tokarev in a Mauser, which I have actually seen.)

@Psiberzerker

2 жыл бұрын

AFAIK (Admitting my own ignorance) the story comes from a later 80s article in Soldier of Fortune magazine, and it was a picture of a drawstring bag, from Afghanistan. Since it was published in an actual Magazine, and "Jr Merchant of Death" wasn't used, it is officially copywritten, by Soldier of Fortune Magazine. (Sorry, I don't have the exact year, and issue to cite here, in the comments on youtube.) I'm guessing that's not the Magazine you're talking about, though.

@geodkyt

2 жыл бұрын

@@Psiberzerker Yes, they will fit, just fine. Matter of fact, after reading your reply, I went and tested the fact (albeit not in a 9mm Largo magazine, since I don't own anything in that caliber). Had exactly zero issues loading 9x18mm Makarov in two different models of .380 magazines (Ruger LCP and Beretta 85) and multiple 9x19mm magazines (Sig P250, Sig SP2022, Glock G19, Springfield XD, GP35, Beretta 92, and Sten). Exactly zero issues encountered with any of these. Also, I have been telling this story AND using that humorous tag line (complete with the sarcastic (tm) tag) on the internet since the late 1990s. So it's entirely possible you've run across it from *me* in the first place. So, "Lighten up, Francis."

@geodkyt

2 жыл бұрын

@@Psiberzerker Heh, and a later comment downthread also reminded me of a factual error on your part, that can be independently verified without having personal access to 9x18mm Makarov ammunition and a variety of 9mm "Other" magazines... The CZ82 (9x18mm Makarov) and CZ83 (.380ACP, AKA 9x17mm) *use the same magazine* .

@Darelumga

2 жыл бұрын

@@geodkyt I don´t own any firearm. Mechanical his first sentence makes no sence and got me confused. You would need to give the bullet some room to move reliable in the Magazine, not to metion double stack Magazines. Thanks for your test

You mention that the 9mm Winchester Magnum was developed for the Automag pistol. I believe it and the 45 Winchester Magnum were developed for the Wildey, not the Automag. Although the 9mm Winchester Magnum was later chambered in the Automag III.

@matthewspencer5086

2 жыл бұрын

There was a .357" automag cartridge initially, but it was a bottleneck and you more or less had to make your own. So the 9mm win mag would have been slightly more attractive _once it was available,_ but it wasn't around for the first automag pistols. Other bottleneck .357" pistol cartridges were available, which is why Ian is keeping out of this rabbit hole. edit, added a bit. You are quite right about the Wildey: it used to say this in Cartridges of the World when Frank Barnes was still with us.

@JRbiker1

2 жыл бұрын

9mm Win Mag was also in the LAR Grizzle Mag pistol

@FoxtrotFleet

2 жыл бұрын

I believe you are correct, I have a bit of an interest in the Wildey and Auto Mag have collected a few images. In a scan of Guns & Ammo May 1979, there is a review of the Wildey by Howard E. French which includes one in 45 Win Mag and one in 9mm Win Mag. I haven't found any more current information on the 9mm Win Mag Wildey pistols so I'm not sure if they were ever put into production (or if they just had very low orders) but a picture in the scan shows it lined up with 15 rounds.

@matthewspencer5086

2 жыл бұрын

@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine All these things are good fun. But the ergonomics of the semi-autos are always going to be awkward when you need good ergonomics to handle the recoil. As Ian said of the Wildey when he shot a backup gun match with one "it's made of sharp edges and corners." Revolvers can be better. But I can see why two or four-barrel Howdah pistols existed. A modern Howdah might be the best solution for the very hot cartridges because it would eliminate frame-cutting and control setback. Would cost money to get the barrels regulated, though. I don't want anyone to go after a Cape Buffalo with a single-shot, pistol or rifle.

@PC-vq5ud

2 жыл бұрын

@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine I shot IMSHA in the 80's and flame cutting was definitely a problem on the Ruger 357 Max Blackhawks. I saw examples. Dan Wesson dealt with it by using a longer cylinder on their DA revolver. Ruger used the same length cylinder as their 357 magnums cut deeper for the Max cartridge. You see the same thing happened with some 454 Casuul revolvers more recently. Ruger quickly withdrew their 357 Max from the market. If that is not a problem, I don't know how you would define problem.

I knew there were a few 9's out there but that was a great, diverse review! Knowledge is power and you wielded it well. Thank you!

Among handgun rounds, the 9x25mm Dillon is hands down one of the most powerful 9mm rounds out there. I own a double-stack Delta Elite chambered for it.

@thomaswashburn3513

2 жыл бұрын

I have a 9X25 Dillon barrel for my G29… I love making fireballs at dusk! I only set it up a couple times a year, but it is enjoyable to shoot… not much more recoil that a standard 10mm… I typically fire around 5,000 10mm a year (last two years, not so much). That and my .357 are my favorite plinkers.

@JD-tn5lz

2 жыл бұрын

9x25 Dillon is the most impractical of all rounds...however...sure is fun to shoot out of a G29. Now if I could find a barrel chambered for it to fit my G40; then it's useful. Fyi, caribou hunting

@thomaswashburn3513

2 жыл бұрын

@@JD-tn5lz I hope you get this! Look up Bar Sto barrels. I think they have them for G40’s also. The major issue is Doubletap and Underwood are the only two commercial companies to provide ammo. It’s not cheap either. I only shoot between 20-40 rounds a year… usually at dusk for the fireball.

@thomaswashburn3513

2 жыл бұрын

@@JD-tn5lz I checked… they do sell them, but yt will not allow me to post the link.

So that's what the "rimmed, rimless, and semi-rimmed" thing means. I figured it had to do with the rim thing on the back, but was always confused when rimless had what looks like a rim (just within the diameter of the cartridge).

@marcinpawelw

2 жыл бұрын

There has to be something for the extractor to catch, right? Rimmed cartridges are better for revolvers - otherwise you need some moon lip-like contraption to keep cartridges from falling into the cyllinder and allow extraction. And the opposite goes for pistol (and rifle) magazines. Rimmed cartridges don't stack in stick mags as well as rimless, and may jam. Rimmed cases have and extruding flange, hence their name. Meanwhile, rimless cartridges have a groove (recess) near the base for the extractor to catch. That's the sole difference.

@jamestarbet9608

2 жыл бұрын

Mind-blowing time: There's even another, this time the rim and the bolt face are SMALLER than the body of the case! Cartridges such as the .50GI, .50 Beowulf & the mightiest of blowbacks... The 20mm Oerlikon!

@AgentTasmania

2 жыл бұрын

@@jamestarbet9608 Rebated Rim, for anyone wondering.

@jamestarbet9608

2 жыл бұрын

@@AgentTasmania Yes, thank you. I forgot to include the term earlier.

@tristacker

2 жыл бұрын

Rimmed cases have a rim significantly wider than the case body. Semi rimmed the rim is slightly wider. Rimless has a rim the same dia as the case with a grove for the extractor. Rebated means the rim is narrower than the case diameter.

I have a simple solution to not having Finland using your own ammo against you; don't attack Finland.

@alexdemoya2119

2 жыл бұрын

Hank_Scorpio_Slapping_His_Forehead.gif

This is one of the best videos on this channel because it actually explains how ammunition classification works really well. I am a bit disappointed that 9mm Glisenti wasn't included but I also know why it wasn't.

So would the 350 legend fall in this category as 9x45, it is technically a 9mm straight walled rimless cartridge

As Ian said "All the ones you might find in a store today" a tear rolled down my cheek in this foul year of our Lord 2021

@suspicioustumbleweed4760

2 жыл бұрын

Have you shopped in awhile? Sportsman’s is full of ammo where I’m from.

@bebopwing1

2 жыл бұрын

@@suspicioustumbleweed4760 Yeah, 9x19mm is back where I'm at, but that's about the only 9mm you're going to find around here.

I just had a conversation the other day with a friend and was trying to explain all the different 9mm rounds out there...i missed a few of these but thats why i love what Ian does, very informative, you actually learn something from him instead of him just doing mag dumps into random things....not that i dont also enjoy that lol

You showed us a video a while ago with a small collection of your rifles, but it'd be cool to see what you actually have for pistols. Great video.

But I guess the big question is why 9mm? It's like everyone agreed that a 9mm diameter cartridge was the way to go but why? Even in revolvers you have .38/.357 which are also 9mm.

@Stevarooni

2 жыл бұрын

There must be a balance in heat build-up, ballistic efficiency...lots of technical reasons, I imagine. It's probably a little arbitrary, but it's been around for so long that it must have some real utility. Even .50 BMG is losing out to .337 Lapua for long-distance shooting, a bullet shy of 9mm in diameter.

@rmhaven142

2 жыл бұрын

well you pretty much have a range ob like 5mm to 13mm wwith handguns and 9mm is just like right in the middle, not to puny and not to much of a kicker

@jonathanferguson1211

2 жыл бұрын

It goes back to the ".36" calibre settled upon by Colt for his 'Navy' calibre. The .38 Short Colt designed to replace this used a 'heeled' bullet the same diameter (.375). Removing the heel reduced the diameter to .357 and the rest is history.

@Larcona_

2 жыл бұрын

It's a good size for getting a balance between power and fit for an average hand basically, and very oversimplified, kinda like .30 for rifles.

@MartinMizner

2 жыл бұрын

5 mm to 7 mm can do anything against bulletproof vest and .45 (11.5 mm) is overkill. That's why 9 mm.

There is also a relatively modern Russian 9x21mm which is more powerful than 9x19, it is used in a small number of specialist pistols and SMGs.

@ArminHartinger

2 жыл бұрын

Yes please.

@ForgottenWeapons

2 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/ooF705ShdrfUprA.html

@rapemachine

2 жыл бұрын

@@ForgottenWeapons steve

@rob6850

2 жыл бұрын

Nothing is more powerful than 9x19.

@paleoph6168

2 жыл бұрын

@@rob6850 10mm Auto, .45 ACP, and all rifle calibers: allow us to introduce ourselves

Always like your videos! Very informative. I ran across some 9mm Ultra brass not long ago, and did a little investigation to figure out just what it was. One thing not mentioned in the video is that the rim is slightly rebated, so the rim is roughly the same diameter as a 380 cartridge while the body is the same diameter as the 9x19. I believe this was done on purpose so that the blow-back 380 pistols would not need a change in the slide (same diameter breech face) but would only require reaming the chamber to the new dimensions. It is also known as the 9mm Police, so I believe the intended market was largely the police forces in Europe, many of which had standardized on the 380 platform.

5:11 "This is also a full metal jacket, although it doesn't say it" _with a massive FMJ text in the top left_

5:00 it literally says FMJ really large at the topleft lol

Ian, the Austrian army also used 9x25 Mauser Export cartridges in their submachine guns in the 1930s (in contrast to their pistols in 9x23 Steyr).

@themcbaisen

2 жыл бұрын

the police also used 9x23 steyr for their mps!

Another gun chambered in 9mm Largo was the Destroyer Carbine. Basically just a little Mauser with a detachable 5rd magazine, made for police but saw a lot of use in the Spanish Civil War. It's really ironic, for something with a name like DESTROYER CARBINE, you'd expect something a little more substantial, LOL

I had heard mention of the Sig P320 being chambered in 9x18 Police, but had no idea what that was until watching this - very informative!

"I carry a 9mm glock" "oh yeah? I heard 9mm parabellum is great for conceal carry" "9x19? Not enough stopping power, I carry 9x25mm so I wouldn't have to shoot twice"

Few people know that there’s that many 9 mm I knew most of them but you pointed out some that I never heard of great video thank you so much once again

I think that 7.65 luger round should come back. That would be a nice service and carry round. It's like a magnum 32acp. 32acp is a 7.65 right? (32acp is one of my favorite cartridges!)

@trooperdgb9722

2 жыл бұрын

Its very noisy and recoils more than its actual power would make reasonable. And THAT is in the big ol' 96 Mauser. I can't imagine it in something smaller and lighter.

@tedarcher9120

Жыл бұрын

@@trooperdgb9722 7.65 luger and 7.63 mauser are very different beasts

@trooperdgb9722

Жыл бұрын

@@tedarcher9120 Ahh..missed that!

I would love more videos like this! I’m trying to learn more about guns as I will likely purchase my first one in a bit over a year (21 is the legal minimum age to carry in my state) and these sorts of videos are super helpful. Overall, I’ve learned a lot just by watching copious amounts of your videos, but I feel like I have a lot of major gaps in my knowledge.

I have a Llama "Extra" in 9mm Largo and have had a Destroyer (wish I never sold that) and had the opportunity to stock up on that (cheaply) 10 or so years ago... Very happy I did that.. Great shooter and historical touchpoint.. Great video as always!

@Hidalguense

2 жыл бұрын

I have shot 38 super for years on my star largo, with no problems. ( modelo super and model A)

@dmytro732

2 жыл бұрын

@@Hidalguense The late production ones (1970s, 1980s) are probably strong enough to handle it, but I wouldn't put .38 super through some early 9mm largo pistol.

@Hidalguense

2 жыл бұрын

@@dmytro732 I met a guy that worked with the original owner of interarms of Virginia. I ask him if was ok to shoot 38 super in the star pistols and he said no problem. I had been doing it for year before I met him. Now he is the owner of interarms Texas here in Houston.

@harveynailbanger

2 жыл бұрын

@@dmytro732 my 1946 llama is actually marked 9mm 38....

@harveynailbanger

2 жыл бұрын

@@Hidalguense same in my llama mkv

The 9x18mm Makarov also illustrates a doctrinal choice. The Soviets wanted the best terminal performance they could get from a simple blowback pistol that would be convenient to carry... however, they felt that a service pistol was of minimally *adequate* terminal performance if it caused the target to quit the field of battle to seek medical aid - they understood that handguns don't have "stopping power" (particularly with FMJ bullets), and didn't think the other headaches that come with trying to get the most powerful handgun issued out as a service pistol were justified given the low effectiveness of handgun bullets compared to rifle bullets (or even pistol.bullets fired from a SMG with the longer barrel and multiple hits expected at close range). After all, the chap who *only* has a handgun as his issue weapon isn't expected to be a primary casualty producing platform - if he's getting his handgun dirty, he's not doing his actual job (or, as we used to say, "If the CO has to clean his pistol, the company is already screwed.") As for the bore diameter "discrepancy", I believe that is actually due to the Russian tradition of using the land to land measurement when naming "caliber", as opposed to using the unfired bullet diameter or the groove to groove measurement.

@ForgottenWeapons

2 жыл бұрын

If it was jut a naming convention difference, they would have used a .355 bullet and called it 8.8mm Makarov.

@alexandermarinin7036

2 жыл бұрын

One of requirements to the new cartridge was impossibility of both using 9x19 mm cartridge in new pistol, and using new cartridge in pistols for 9x19, to prevent accidental missloadind and illegal usage. So 9x18 was made so wide so it cannot be chambered in 9x19 gun

@geodkyt

2 жыл бұрын

@@ForgottenWeapons *If* they were intent on using the same dimensioned bullet as everyone else. But, since they didn't have any major weapons builds that were in a "Western" 9mm caliber, there was no reason to use a "Western" 9mm bullet and designate it in the Russian fashion - the RFP said, "Use a 9mm bullet in a round capable of fitting in a compact blowback" and the design teams used a bullet that measures 9mm *by Russian standards* . So, it measures an even 9mm across the lands, despite using a bullet the West would probably designate as 9.2mm, or 9.3mm (depending whether they chopped the last decimal place or rounded it), or 9.27mm. The 7.62mm Russian rounds they issued are the same, which is why they are fatter than "Western" 7.62mm rounds - they measure 7.62mm across the lands and use 7.92mm bullets.

Hi Ian, thank you so much for your informative videos - kudos for the efforts and the extensive knowledge you share with us, along with the right amount of fun. At 5:07, are you sure the Sellier & Bellot package doesn't say it's FMJ? ;)

Thanks for the info, Very professional as usual. Altough a fan of 9 Parabellum my self I was not sure about all the rest altough I knew about most of them. I will keep this video as a reference for future discussions.

Ahh... the 9mm, the USB type C of gun world

@igoranisimov6549

2 жыл бұрын

Did you mean that it can be chambered by either end? 🤔

@shahnankamildewantoro8623

2 жыл бұрын

@@igoranisimov6549 lol maybe 🤣

@isaacberry93

Жыл бұрын

So 45acp is lightning cable?

I was sitting at home, drinking my tea and watching this - nodding along, as you do - and I suddenly realised... I am a huge nerd! LOL As usual, fantastically informative video, thank you Mr. M. (I now think of you as being like an MI6 boffin, like 'Q'!) :)

@Moses_VII

2 жыл бұрын

I keep confusing MI6 Intelligence Agency and M16 Rifle

Type 26 Japanese revolver used a 9mm rimmed. I think you may know that though. I have heard that the 9mm Makarov was designed to fire the absolute largest cartridge that could function through a blowback automatic.

As always ! very clarifying and informative. Thank You

Interesting video! Speaking of cartridges, I think it would be very interesting to invite Maxim Popenker, to talk about the SP-4 (СП-4) cartridge, used in the PSS (ПСС) and the OTs-38 (ОЦ-38). A very interesting technical solution!

This video is just begging to be summarized by the Forrest Gump "kinds of shrimp" meme. Awesome content as always.

Ian, you'll kick yourself around the five minute mark (5:00)... "This is full metal jacket", while pointing at the 'FMJ' initial on MagTech ammo box. Followed immediately by, "This is also full metal jacket, although it doesn't say it on there" I giggle just a little, having made the same type of grossly obvious mistake. Box in question, initials 'FMJ' at only double the size of all the other writing on said box.

Very detailled and clear video. I also learned that Luger P06 and P08 use the same magazin. Many thanks

Fun fact - parabellum is Latin for ‘Prepare for war.’

@SteelHorseRider74

2 жыл бұрын

si vis pacem - para bellum!

@tisFrancesfault

2 жыл бұрын

It's kinda cringe, I prefer calling it luger.

In my 50 years of reloading there have been several occasions to reload a 9mmMak thinking it to be standard 9x19. Since the case was resized it could become elongated and actually fire. The sound and recoil let you know something was wrong. Two others fell to far into the chamber and the firing pin would leave a small mark on the primer which did not fire.

@igoranisimov6549

2 жыл бұрын

I have never seen Boxer primed 9×18 Mak.

@schinderiapraemeturus6239

2 жыл бұрын

@@igoranisimov6549 Seller's and Berthold makes 9 x 18mm Mak with boxer primers.

@igoranisimov6549

2 жыл бұрын

@@schinderiapraemeturus6239 S&B is one of the best, made in Czech Republic

@schinderiapraemeturus6239

2 жыл бұрын

@@igoranisimov6549 I trim once fired 9mm luger brass down to .700, re-size using a 9x 18 reloading die, then build loads with .363 cal bullets. It is perfectly feasible to do this but I would recommend a 90% max powder load (or +P .380 load) for first firing as the luger case will expand slightly to fill the 9 Mak bore.

@QuasiTraction

2 жыл бұрын

You can actually drop a 9×19 luger/paraballum into a Makarov, and it will fire & eject. But it won't feed from the magazine. The projectile nose is too long.

This was the best video on this subject I have found to date!!! Great work!!!

Wow, did I learn a lot! Thanks for the details.

I was sad that you didn't mention the PP Super when talking about 9x18 Ultra. I used to have one and it was a really neat gun, even though the magazines cost more than my monthly car payment.