Were pre-raphaelite paintings medieval. No. Every culture looks at history thru their own tinted spectacles. Costume historians see all the victorian mistakes, in a hundred years people will see ours. I think the pre-raphaelites weren't trying for historical accuracy, they were trying for beauty.

@SnappyDragon

5 ай бұрын

I so dearly wish I could see what future "romantic" artists will be doing with early 21st century fashions 🤣

@espeon871

5 ай бұрын

@@SnappyDragon i think the new romantic artists are the people who draw characters based in the 2000s and 90s in a nostalgic and tv like way and also people who draw in the 2000s anime style wearing early 2000s japanese clothes lol

I wholeheartedly agree with the cottagecore comparison. These artists were all about the vibes, not academic rigor. Of course it could also be a case similar to how people today use the term Victorian as a catch-all for anything from Elizabethan to Edwardian clothing, despite the term referring to a very specific time period and culture. As long as people see big skirts and structured bodices, they think Victorian. Maybe for actual Victorians, medieval fashion was anything that didn't have bone undergarment and skirt supports.

@johannageisel5390

5 ай бұрын

That makes a lot of sense.

There’s a 1910s dress pattern for a “Marie Antoinette gown.” It’s a simplified lingerie dress with a lace trimmed fichu, inspired by chemise gowns. To my fashion nerd eye, the 1910s dress looks nothing like what Marie Antoinette wore, but I adore the style anyway.

@johannageisel5390

5 ай бұрын

Can you tell us where we can find this pattern? Or a picture of the finished dress? I am intrigued.

@christinegallo4983

5 ай бұрын

Haha yeah, I’ve seen it too, and it reminds me so much of all the “bridgerton” or “regency” dresses I’ve seen on social media that keep a few details of the show’s costumes or the fashion of the era and add them to an otherwise completely different dress. It’s so interesting seeing how everyone reinterprets fashion in so many different ways

I love hearing about the 'this is how people dressed' vs 'this was for the vibes'

"You'll be perfect for whatever Waterhouse is working on." My morning tea just came out my nose. So true.

@SnappyDragon

5 ай бұрын

Sorry but not totally sorry? 😅

@ChrisFixedKitty

5 ай бұрын

@@SnappyDragon Just so. I mean, I commented because I thought you'd want to know! ;)

They may not be accurate, but those dresses are beautiful! Maybe we need Waterhouse Dinners as an excuse to make and wear them

@SnappyDragon

5 ай бұрын

Yes PLEASE.

@annbrookens945

5 ай бұрын

What a wonderful idea!!!

@moniqueleigh

5 ай бұрын

Count me on board!

@AngryTheatreMaker

5 ай бұрын

Would go to one of these, for sure. Sign me up!

I've loved the pre-Raphaelite look for years. When I was a teenager, my grandma made me a bright red satin dress with the drapey sleeves, but with a high waist, and I wore it to several events and loved it--it made me feel like a romantic heroine and it looked different from what everyone else was wearing. I have plans to make an actual bliaut at some point, but I have fourteenth century kirtle to finish up first.

@SnappyDragon

5 ай бұрын

That sound so pretty!

I like to joke if I had infinite money, I would dress like a pre-raphelite painting. One of my personal favorites that hadn't been mentioned is Ellen Terry as Lady Macbeth by John Singer Sargent. I (a working class girl from the Midwest US) got the chance to see it in person on a summer study abroad program to London, and it particularly struck me because the entire trip was about studying history, fine art, and theater, and this painting fit neatly into all three categories. Also, as a crocheter, finding out the real dress from the painting was crocheted with specialty yarn and embellished with beetle wing cases, I NEED THE PATTERN SO BAD.

@SnappyDragon

5 ай бұрын

I LOVE that dress so much! One of the reasons I didn't use it in this video is that we know it was a stage costume, so the story behind it is more concrete and less tangled up with the notion of "accuracy".

@chrisenglund9269

5 ай бұрын

John Singer Sargent was no PreRaphaelite. But that is a marvelous painting.

@annbrookens945

5 ай бұрын

That was crochet??? It's a GLORIOUS dress!

@ApprenticeWriter

5 ай бұрын

Oh, wow, I had not idea that gown was crochet! Things to add to my bucket list of grail crochet projects…

@kellyburds2991

5 ай бұрын

@@ApprenticeWriter same.

Romanticism IS the resurgence of medieval ideology (expressed in fashion, philosophy, arts, etc), at the period when capitalism was experiencing its earliest spasms and crises. It is inherently nostalgic. Very fun to examine this period through the lens of clothing and oil paintings, how that admiration and anxieties between the periods were expressed in these styles.

@SnappyDragon

5 ай бұрын

Very interesting how much we're seeing of similar attitudes today . . .

The Pre-Raphaelites have too much of a romanticised Ivory Tower view of chivalry for my taste. I find myself looking clisely at their art because its so good and well composed. Cold, draughty castles and heavy labour for most folk being ignored. They were aware of their own fantastical projections though. The clothing. The wives and sisters of the artists were their models and all of them artists in their own right. They designed and made their own clothes, taking ispiration from old art. The white bliot that you you thought was similar in two pictures, was probably the same dress painted different ways. Thinking of Leighton Burns Flaming June and looking at those tea dresses, its no surprise Mrs Fortuny came up with the Delphos gowns. Flaming June, not only a wonderful colour play but her pose is genius.

I thrifted a HUGE print of Waterhouse's Lady of Shallott and it's the centerpiece of my living room 🥰 I adore the Pre-Raphaelites' aesthetic, and I love the point you made about the loose hair in medieval art! It's a trope, not realism, and that perspective will definitely help me to be less frustrated or at least confused going forward.

Pre-Raphaelite paintings are my mum's favourite so we have a bunch of prints of them literally all over the house (usually cut out from calendars and the like) including such unusual spots as covering the fridge. They are truly so beautiful. I love the way the silk lays on all the women, it just looks so dainty and perfect.

@SnappyDragon

5 ай бұрын

I feel like the way the material drapes is yet another way that art, by its nature, gets to be cooler than reality. If only my dresses lay that perfectly, at all times, in real life!

My favorite work of this genre is "Half Sick of Shadows" by Waterhouse. I love the dark edges, the crimson gown, the tapestry loom and little yarn swift in the foreground. I know that many of the women in the 'Brotherhood' group were into preserving and re-creating all types of textile crafts.

I think my favorite piece of art for historical clothing is the "Shin" page of the First Darmstadt Haggadah by Israel ben Meir, ~1420. It's just so many different types of sleeves, head coverings, and hairstyles all in one page! Plus, it shows the women studying with men which I like to wave in people's faces when they say Jewish women never studied Talmud or Torah historically.

Re: The Beatrice painting (around 8"): Both Dante's collar and the angels' sleeves are very similar to what you see in late 15th c. northern Italy. The background (which I presume is supposed to be a wall and the ground) is also evocative of the mille fleurs backgrounds you see in northern French and Flemish art of about the same era. The left panel of the painting feels like more of a hodge-podge, but you do see similar ear-covering headwear earlier in the 15th c. as well. N.B.: Many of these things existed in other places and eras, this is just what it looked like most to me, personally.

I love the Pre-Raphaelites and went to see The Rossettis exhibition at Tate Britain in London a few months ago! I think in style I do prefer Waterhouse though (and Burne-Jones outside of just painting). The romanticism and aesthetics really work for me, the lush nature depicted is enchanting, it's all very dreamy with a hint of tragedy. The clothing really does a lot of the work, so it's very interesting to see how much of it is idealised and put together from different historical influences.

My fave is the dress fabric with the giant stylised poppies in La Belle Dame Sans Merci. The vibrancy, the boldness! The poppies represent sleep/stupor, so appropriate for the poem. That dress is not intended to be historic at all, but symbolic of the fate overtaking the young man.

I have a print of Millais' Mariana on my wall- a woman in a cotehardie-like dress with a white collar, standing up from her embroidery frame and stretching out her back. Her hair is up in a very 1850s smooth brushed style. I love the movement and posture- it's very familiar to me as a textile person! Favorite garb painting- Bruegel's Wedding Dance. So many people having a good time, and he paints the seams! I have a soft spot for Dutch genre paintings in general- I do SCA lower-to-middle class 16th c stuff a lot, and they're so vibrant. They're also highly romanticized- cottagecore paintings from when those bodices were new and exciting!

@lenabreijer1311

5 ай бұрын

Yes that stretch! I did some tapestry weaving and my that is an accurate depiction! I love that picture.

@SnappyDragon

5 ай бұрын

It me, after editing!

@johannageisel5390

5 ай бұрын

Oh my god those codpieces in the Wedding Dance painting!

Waterhouse is pretty much my favorite artist. I love all of his paintings, but especially his Greek myth ones. I don't even think I could pick just one.

Glad you’re feeling better! We (my family and I) still take Covid precautions and wear n95s. It’s really great seeing someone actually not just pretend like it’s disappeared and no one gets it any more. I wish you the best for the new(ish) year and that you don’t get long term effects of Covid. Great video, by the way. Quite interesting!

@sarahr8311

5 ай бұрын

You're not alone! I'm still masking and avoiding large groups, abs so is my family!

@lenabreijer1311

5 ай бұрын

I am back to masking after our Christmas celebrations happen with all of us alone dealing various versions of flu, covid and cold and maybe that RSV( ?). I still have presents waiting to be given.

@SnappyDragon

5 ай бұрын

Absolutely! I still mask in indoor public places and now that I'm over the lung infections, I'm getting the most recent booster. I feel fortunate I was able to avoid it long enough that good treatments have developed, so it was unpleasant but not as bad as it could have been.

I love the pre Raphaelites. So much drama such colours and pretty clothes. Pure fantasy but so well done. I will admit i was tripped up by those paintings in the 70s trying to make costumes. But one learns.

@SnappyDragon

5 ай бұрын

Also, it is absolutely a thing to make a costume that is a painting recreation! I bet your makes were gorgeous.

@lenabreijer1311

5 ай бұрын

@@SnappyDragon they were, but I have a really hard time staying in the lines of historical costume making anyway so I was never too upset about it. I just made a st Brigitte coif, it is shibory dyed (tie dyed of sorts) lavender...

This reinforces so much how medieval art was about the style and vibes and not about realism

Glad that you’re feeling better! A lot of Pre-Raphaelite inspiration has been popping up in Warhammer Fantasy, and it’s made making LARP costumes for a Bretonnian Enchantress (think a fairytale fairy godmother in a space inspired by the Hundred Years War) complicated. Because a single dress can have up to four time periods represented.

Thanks for having the hair color I've always been too lazy or too cheap to do on myself. It looks exactly as fabulous as I imagined.

@SnappyDragon

5 ай бұрын

Thank you! It's dyed 😁

@johannageisel5390

5 ай бұрын

@@SnappyDragon If you can't make the pigments yourself, store bought is fine.

This is fitting since I'm currently working on my dissertation on Aesthetic dress with a segment on Pre-Raphaelite dress 🌻🦚

When I was 15 I did a report on Rafael. One of my favorite paintings was the Lady With a Unicorn. It was a favorite becuase unicorns are my thing. Plus it started my interest in the Renaissance era and my love of historical dress. I'm mildly aware of the Rafaelite painters. Mostly from reading Anne of Green Gables and the Lady of Shallot where Anne and her friends grabbed a leaky boat and voted Anne to be the Lady of Shallot only for the boat to sink and Gilbert just happened to be in the area and came to rescue her. The Victorian were fond of their fantasy and their art showed it. Though I favored the impressionist artists, over the Rafaelite. Specifically Edgar Degas. Mostly becuase I love working with pastels and becuase I used to dance. I even did a picture in one of my art classes where I had to insert myself into a famous piece of art and I chose his Dancers in Blue. At the time I was heavily into dance and dancing 12 hours a week. I couldn't help but wonder how victorian ballerinas danced in corsets. Of course this was at the time where in my ignorance I was still being fed the myth that corsets were insturments of torture. Yet at the same time Zorro had just come out and we all saw Catherine Zeta Jones sword fight in her historically inaccurate underwear with Antonio Banderas. That also begged the question how could she do that if she couldn't breathe? Now that I know better I can see how they did it. I fell a couple weeks ago and broke a rib, and I've been wearing a corset since. Let me tell you, this corset is great! Now Ironically I'm about to send my 15 yr old duaghter off to dance the night away in a bustle gown complete with a corset. Crazy how life works out. One day corsets are instruments of torture, next they are the greatest thing since wifi.

I love to take any opportunity to gush about my favourite painting of the era/movement being Frejya and the Necklace by James Doyle Penrose. I know you can't really cry "historical accuracy" when it comes to a mythological figure per say, but I find the vibes immaculate. The floaty feel of the garment, the contracting blue cape/cloak, and the gold embroidery - I desperately wish to recreate that garment one day 😭

@johannageisel5390

5 ай бұрын

I have the matching circlet for you. Ages ago I made a simple circlet from a band of brass. It looks the same as in that painting. I wanted to wear it with a 12th century bliaut outfit, but I messed up the project. At some point I want to attempt a new one. I also have a nice silk veil that would go well with the circlet. Anyway, if you are anywhere near Germany, I'll lend my circlet to you for the Freya outfit. ^ ^ (You can also make your own: You need a strip of brass sheet metal and then you take a small square or rectangle of brass and solder it on the inside of the line where the ends of the strip meet. You'll only have a fine line visible as a joint at the back of your head.)

@SuiSweetRose

5 ай бұрын

@johannageisel5390 Bless you dear that is so incredibly kind of you to offer! 🩷 Unfortunately I'm all the way in Australia 😅 Thank you so much for the instructions though! Maybe that'll but a fire under my butt to give it a go~~ 🩷

@johannageisel5390

5 ай бұрын

@@SuiSweetRose Best of success in your endeavours!

One of my favorite paintings depicting period dress is the Arnolfini Portrait by Jan van Eyke. He was a master of texture.

@jayneterry8701

5 ай бұрын

We had that print(?) in the hall of my public school and it bothered me for years until it was explained that it was showing a couple getting married and no she wasn't pregnant, that's her dress 🙄

I went to a talk a couple years ago specifically about textiles depicted in painting, at an exhibition based around the Frederic William Burton watercolour Meeting on the Turret Stairs (voted Ireland's favourite art piece). I don't think they ever discussed whether the dress was appropriate to the period or not (but it's possible I was distracted by the pretty dress - it's truly gorgeous), but it was so interesting to have as an additional element to the exhibition.

@SnappyDragon

5 ай бұрын

I just looked it up and it's super pretty! Could definitely be a bliaut, although the side-lacing isn't shown. What I couldn't get over is how the end of her braid is tucked into her belt 🤣

@kyerin

5 ай бұрын

@SnappyDragon Yes, I always wonder about that too 😆

1) I feel you on the dodging COVID for 4 years, and then getting slapped in the face by it. Same thing happened to me, and likewise because of my chronic conditions my dr got me on Paxlovid quickly and while I can't get the cough to go away, I was over the rest of it pretty quickly. 2) Amateur art historian (went to school for it, but then life happened). I did a quick chase up of the "The Death of Arthur" by James Archer, and the one thing that struck me is that no one seems to know/agree on who the women around Arthur are, other than Guinevere, whose lap his head is in. Now I suppose one could potentially argue that the woman in black could be his mother, since as mother of the king she could arguably wear a crown, but Arthurian legend doesn't discuss her much beyond Arthur's conception. However, I PERSONALLY find it interesting that it's specifically FOUR women, and their clothing spans a number of time periods because there's a little know poem that falls somewhere within the Arthurian cycle (which is hellish to pin down, because it was just constantly re-written fanfiction reflecting a wide variety of, often contradicting, cultural morals of vastly different time periods/peoples/societies/classes) which mentions that Arthur was married 3 times, and in fact took a lover during his last marriage. All three of his wives were named some variation of Guinevere, and the first one married him before he was actually king, the second one not long after he was crowned, and it was only the third and the lover who were with him during the most prosperous/decadent part of his reign and at his fall. If we follow my string and thumbtacks theory here, and assume that's something that James Archer was referencing, then their styles of dress could be an entirely intentional to reference the different parts of Arthur's life/reign to which the women belonged and his feelings for them. Certainly the woman with Arthur's head in her lap is the most richly and romantically dressed, where the figure in black is likewise obviously richly dressed, but there's precious little romantic about (which in my hypothesis would make her the Guinevere that was cheated on). The woman at Arthur's feet is dressed in a style we can identity as rich, but not as elaborate as the other two. Meanwhile the woman leaning against the tree is dressed quite simply, and very much in the early medieval chic while also appearing much younger than the other women. As I recall, the poem referenced the first Guinevere as a youthful love match, the second and third as duty, and the lover as the queen of his heart. While I obviously can't tell you for sure who the women are, I AM more sure that their different modes of dress are intended to be indicators of their status (obviously), and the fact that they're all from different time periods while still being "medieval" might not have actually been considered at all during composition, since it passed the vibe check for the fantasy piece. Important caveat: I am NOT a professional art history, and I COULD be talking entirely from my ass. Thank you 🙏

We had to do a project in my twelfth grade French class about a French artist, and I chose Jean-Honoré Fragonard. I still love A Stolen Kiss, it's a beautiful painting and the clothing in it is gorgeous, especially with how he paints it.

@SnappyDragon

5 ай бұрын

I love how you can see the texture of the shot silk on the overdress!

I think La Belle dame sans merci by Dicksee is one of my favourite pre raphaelite style paintings, although I don't think the artist was actually considered a pre raphaelite. Also Destiny by John William Waterhouse. That is at my local art gallery and I've loved it for as long as I can remember

@missvioletnightchild2515

5 ай бұрын

I adore La Belle Dame Sans Merci, I have a small postcard of it framed on my wall, bought when I lived in Bristol where the painting is held :) (I wish I had a bigger version tbh)

I would LOVE a video on historical cottagecore movements. Signed, former farmworker & so over it.

My favorite Pre-Raphaelites-tangent art: a short story. The Kelpie by Patricia A. McKillip. The main characters are part of a painter community in a semi-Victorian England. It's wonderful!. (It appears in her short story collection Wonders of the Invisible World.) Also--a majority of the covers of McKillip's books have beautiful illustration by Kinuko Y. Craft. Vaguely medieval fantasy dresses abound, so much flowing fabric and loose hair, with plenty a detail lifted from the stories around the edges. Od Magic, and the Bell at Sealey Head are among my favorites, though I regularly reread most of her books.

I actually love the real clothing items inspired by this view of history. Victorian does Medieval fancy dress is a really fun genre to explore.

this video is my favorite kind of ultra niche rabbit hole. this exact topic is my roman empire.

Edwin Austin Abbey - 1900 - The Penance of Eleanor, Duchess of Gloucester I absolutely adore the Duke with his super-dramatic purple-lined hooded robe and pasty skin.

Pre-Raphaelite = Medieval, the good parts version. 😀 I suspect that the death of Arthur was meant to have all those time periods represented, to show him as "beloved" across time.

@MossyMozart

5 ай бұрын

@wallysrebecca498 - If that wasn't the artist's intention, it should have been! However, Arthur was as mythological as the rest of of the Pre-Raphaelite fairy tale worlds.

I have a print of Lady of Shallott on my wall. There’s a stained glass window of a lady in Classical Greek inspired dress under a pergola with wisteria done by Tiffany in the Chrysler Museum of Art in Norfolk VA by where I live, and that’s my favorite piece in the museum. The pre-Raphaelite dresses may not be accurate but they sure are pretty

It's not Pre-Raphaelite (pre-Pre-Raphaelite?), but my favorite and most-referenced painting is and always will be Benozzo Gozzoli's 'Procession Of The Magi' (15th c.). It's such a wealth of ideas for beautiful horse barding and tack, and there's even a riding mule fully shown!

"Your ok honey, you'll be just great for whatever Waterhouse is doing...i admit to making a loud thunder of laughter..good one.🤣

My favourite not historical correct but historical paintings are C.G Hellqvist "Brandskattningen av Visby" from 1882 and Carl Larssons "Midvinterblot" from 1914-1915. The former is in the style of the prerafalites...and carl larssons painting is more at the cartoon-ish side of things.

SO many artist and genres to love...but...one great favourite of mine is Maxfield Parrish. GREAT video!

Favorite Pre-Raphaelite painting: Sargent's Ellen Terry as Lady Macbeth. That green dress covered in beetle wing cases is a marvel to behold. Favorite painting depicting a mythical/fantastical figure: Artemisia Gentileschi's Clio, The Muse of History. (The use of color and draping here is exquisite.) Great video!

@SnappyDragon

5 ай бұрын

I love that dress so much!

@AngryTheatreMaker

5 ай бұрын

@@SnappyDragon Right? It suits both character and actress so well--and I'd wear it myself, like a shot.

Another excellent discussion of a fun, influential, AND controversial movement. Thanks for your work, and it’s great to see you’re feeling better!

I'm glad to see you again. Best wishes on your continued health journey & thanks for the video!

Thank you for this very interesting and entertaining piece. I appreciate your humour a lot and also your honest expressions regarding your chronic condition.

Perfect timing on a video. I'm doing research into Medieval Fashion right now for an upcoming costume. Great information.

I always enjoy your videos as I sew, clean, or drive. It's so funny and I learn so much each time❤

Thank You for pointing this out. I've watched a few of your videos, and enjoy the fact that nothing has been sugar coated. Take care.

Please do give us a rant about William Morris! I adore his artwork, but don’t know how his Arts&Crafts movement dealt with politics at all. Always happy to see people talk about Leighton’s The Accolade. My mom made my wedding dress based on it. Don’t know about his model, but MY under sleeves were just safety pinned on at the shoulder (and still are 12 yrs later 😅). I never got around to making an underdress either, so there’s just a modesty panel (also just safety pinned) across the front. But it’s beautiful and I’ve worn it several times since the wedding, so it’s perfect. 😍

Thank you for the lovely video. I admire the preraphielite paintings very much, and like many of them. I can't choose any one specific painting, but, thank you for the opportunity to speak up.

That "Elizabeth I when a Princess" goes so hard, but also Damn: having to live your life with a name like "Bill Scrots" unu unu

I liked the 2009 TV series “Desperate Romantics” about the PRB. I’m sure they took some liberties, but it was well done.

I went without covid the whole time until early January as well! Cool topic for your video!!

It warms my heart to see a fellow art history major killin it! Love the Pre-Raphaelites, too. Pax et bonum.

Thanks for this neat video!

First time viewer. Very impressed. Subscribed !

For my English literature A level I studied Christina Rossetti, thus I studied a little bit about the brotherhood & I am truly fascinated by the style! From the biblical and literature references to the aesthetic, I adore it! Edit: I should mention, an A level is a qualification in England you would do for two years (age 16-18) after secondary school (from age 11-16)

William Morris is my main man, but he has some competition from Alphonse Mucha. The arts & crafts movement and the subsequent Art Nouveau movement are my favorite art movements in history. Also love the comparison of pre-Raphaelite to cottagecore. I was all over cottagecore when it first started trending and honestly still am. I just can't help but love romanticism and fantasy.

Hello! What a great video! I’m not sure where you’re located - but the Delaware Museum of Art is known for having a huge Pre-Raphaelite work in its permanent collection plus I think they’re having an exhibit on the Rosetti’s

the absolute *screech of delight* i let out when i saw this in my inbox!! (((o(*ﾟ▽ﾟ*)o))) edit: super glad you're feeling better! the intro romp was also so incredibly funny!

Just today I was looking at some photos of German actors, actresses and opera singers from ~1900-1920 and exactly the same things you're talking about were also happening in their costumes! Lots of men in weird armor with little lad haircuts, and lots of women with long flowing hair and big sleeves

I’m actually looking into this disparity for my current research essay in my 19th century art history class what a coincidence haha

This was really interesting!

Fascinating! I honestly don’t know much about this movement, but I am fascinated by the (similar) movements across Europe during the romantic era in which modern folk costumes evolved out of as a response to industrialization, as well as a rise in nationalism. (the idea of “the national cottage” emerged in many nations, though i’m remembering an article i read specifically on czechoslovakia). and, similarly, folk costuming being a (usually) upper class interpretation of lower-class life, though there are exceptions to this with several folk costumes (i’m remembering biłgoraj specifically, which is a fascinating folk costume!) i’m most familiar with poland, which has an incredible spectrum of upper class interpretations (żywiec is also So interesting. and is an incredible blend of several different historical motifs) to folk dress developed by the peasantry, and everything in between.

the Pre-Raphaelites' impact on art was MASSIVE, around the same time period Art Nouveau was beginning to boom and there's lots of overlap between the two that can even be seen in the artistic images and personas of musicians such as Florence Welch and Nolwenn Leroy

Honestly just started noticing how so many historical depictions the women have veils/hoods/caps/head coverings as compared to the fantastical arts and that along with this video has answered so many questions I’ve had about hair-care and culture on the matter haha. This video being suggested to me makes me feel like I’m being stalked tho ;v;

You hit my two favorites and told me that they were the same painter which I didn't know. The one with the queen doing the nighting and another a little later with the boat and the lady on the boat. Although I would also put the one with the ladies. Tying her favor to the gentleman in that list, which based on those two being the same artist i'm guessing is also the same artist.

One of my favorite paintings is Saturday afternoon on the Ilse (island) of Grand Jatt. Ok ive spelt it wrong but if you look at this pointalist painting you see that all the women are the same! I tried my hand at making the costume of the lady on the right in the shadow.❤

Of the Pre-Raphaelites, my favourite would be Waterhouse's Lady of Shalott.

This. Is. Amazing.

Flaming June by British painter, Frederic Leighton

I can also imagine that a not insignificant answers to "why are they dressed like that" would be "because the client requested it." Most artists painted on commission or under patronage. Even if *you* know it's not historically accurate or doesn't make sense, you're gonna paint what your client wants or you don't get paid. Even if what the client wants doesn't make any sense.

Lovely

I’d love to hear your thoughts on Mr. Morris, especially since both he and Mr. Frank Lloyd Wright seem to have their patterns and designs plastered on all sorts of merchandise these days.

So that L'Morte D'Arthur painting by James Arthur sent me down a little bit of a rabbit hole bc I like Arthurian lit and I was curious about the intentions behind costuming the women that way. Considering the title of the painting, it is based off of the book L'Morte D'Arthur. The woman in the dark costume is probably Morgan le Fay, which makes sense because she's an on-and-off antagonist. Two of the other women are the Queen of the Waste Lands and The Queen of Northgalis. And another woman would be Nimue, Lady of the Lake. However, the Manchester Art Gallery says that the woman in blue in the background is supposed to be Nimue, so if this were based on the L'Morte D'Arthur book, then she would be there twice? As far as I can tell, there is not really any obvious reason why they are from different eras. But it would be sooooo cool if he painted Nimue wearing early medieval clothes (since she's magic), and Queen of the Waste Lands in slightly outdated clothes, and Morgan in clothes from her period, but with a twist. Also, good to hear that you are doing better!

Any of the Dolce far Niente works of John William Godward . I think he used the title multiple times?

Lucretia by rembrandt is my favourite

The vibe I'm getting from this is that our "Rennaissance Fairs" should really be called "Pre-Raphaelite Fairs" but that is less catchy.

Considering that artists in almost every era prior to realism painting historical subjects in the artist's "modern" fashion, at least the pre-Raphs were making an *attempt* at putting their subjects in something closer to what they might have worn? LOL, and hey, when your subject is pure fantasy, you can put 'em in whatever clothing you want! As far as my favorite pre-Raph? Aaaaiiiiiieeeee, don't make me choose. (It's probably Waterhouse. But tomorrow it may be one of the others.)

Man, I wish modern costume designers were as committed to make fantasy costumes pretty as the Pre-Raphaelites were.

The women in “The Death of Arthur” are immortal Fey from the Isle of Avalon, taking Arthur away to a place where he can sleep through the centuries until England needs him again. So yes, I’d say the decision to have them in different eras of clothing is intentional, meant to invoke that sense of timelessness.

accurate or not I love 19th century interpretations of the middle ages I love them soooo much it makes me want to live in those stories and paintings

Bunny trail and hot take: Christian iconographic religious art (spoiler alert, mostly cosplay) I live near L.A. (used to live in L.A.), my grandmother was an art teacher who used to work at notable fine art museum gift shop. I got a LOT of fine art exposure to the kind of art you'll find at the Ringling museum in Florida, and have spent a LOT of time at both LACMA and The Getty Center. For a variety of reasons, I have a special interest in Christian religious iconography of various forms across many centuries. There were two influential things that really tipped the scales in favor of there being a LOT of Christian religious art: 1.) If your income relied on patronage, there could be good money in painting it 2.) In certain periods secular art was not really allowed, but sacred art was, so the only art that wouldn't get you in trouble was religious art That said??? For some really unsavory, r*cist, and anti-s*emetic reasons, no one in Europe was interested in having culturally accurate paintings of what the actual characters in the Bible or Lives of the Saints looked like. Almost all of the sacred religious art of this period was painted featuring individuals who looked like the people of the culture for whom the painting was created, and are often wearing clothes more closely associated with the culture for whom the painting was created than actual anything related to the period in which the Biblical or religious characters lived. I'm not well versed enough in specific fashions of various religious orders through the centuries to know if they got the saints of various religious orders perfectly correct, but I do know that things vary WIDELY when it comes to the folks featured in the sort of "Sunday School" Bible story scenes. I actually spend a lot of time looking at this type of art NOT for revelations on anything related to the actual scripture or story, but to give me cultural historical clues for how the artist was directing the original audience of the art to interpret the story. It's quite striking, especially in the figure of Mary Magdalene, who is often combined with a few other gospel characters to meld into a person that is none of the characters at all. In fact, there is actually a lot of sort of "fashionable" ways to depict Mary Magdalene at the crucifixion (usually with John and Mary the mother of Jesus). For awhile it was fashionable to depict her hugging the foot of the crucifix with blood running into her [ALWAYS UNCOVERED] hair. You want to talk about "uncovered hair," as part of the recasting and melding of Mary Magdalene into this character that combined several characters and somehow made her a prostitute? One of her literal saintly attributes (along with an oil lamp) is uncovered hair. Regardless of anyone's position on the validity of various religious traditions, the historical and cultural significance of the religious art is really notable and worth studying from a cultural historical perspective. And most of it? Cosplay.

Glad you're feeling better. My 7 yr old and I made it until August before we got COVID. My mom and my 9 yr old still are covid free. Knock on wood

I think the loose hair style is situational in any era. I never were my long hair like this during work days because they tangle like crazy. But when I'm sitting inside (no wind :)) doing nothing (just reading, not moving much) and just looking pretty - then why not?

I'm neither an art historian nor a fashion historian, but my personal hypothesis is that loose hair is often associated with religious figures and possibly meant to symbolize purity/virginity??? You can also see it with high status women, and I like to believe that the artists used this feature to give those women an attribute of religious specialness. Basically making them look saintly/Madonna-like. BUT: It could also be a matter of time period. The statues from in my local cathedral (ca. 1250) all have loose flowing hair, from the Queen over the foolish and wise virgins to the Madonna depictions. The Codex Manesse pictures (ca. 1300) also have the loose hair as you already mentioned. The Madonna depictions by Jan van Eyck (around 1400) also have their hair open, as has St. Barbara, but Mrs. Adolfini wears a hood. The portrait of Margaret van Eyck, 1439, is also veiled. Contemporaries of him also depicted women with covered hair if it was in a portrait. This supports my hypothesis that loose hair was reserved for the virgin Mary and other saints (and also angels). Maybe it was a synthesis of the two things. Maybe simple portraits of random people were not as wide-spread before the early 1400s, that's why we have more depictions of "extraordinary" people who receive the "saintly" marker of loose hair. But when portraits and depictions of commoners become more commonplace, we see people be painted in their realistic headdress. Now I want an art historian to come and tell me if my idea has any merit. ^ ^

succes content❤

cottage core vid plez

@SnappyDragon

5 ай бұрын

working on it 😁

I too broke my 4 year no covid streak a week ago. 😷

Mad King Ludwig was a fan, Neuschwanstein has a room chock full of medievalesque paintings on the walls.

Is it bad that I found it hard to differentiate between the two groups in Frith's painting at first?

@SnappyDragon

5 ай бұрын

They're intermingled a bit. The center seated figures are in "typical" early 1880s clothes, and the front-most figures to either side in "Aesthetic" dress.

I got massively distracted by the Lady of Shallowe - it's pronounced shall-otte, exactly how it's spelt, and rhymed with Camelot and Lancelot.

Bella dama San Merci Woaterhause

i LOVE the preRaphaelites!!!!

Speaking as an artist, one possible reason both medieval and pre-Raphaelite artists drew loose wavy hair, even if it wasn't accurate, is because it's just plain fun to draw. :)

I've had a print of "The Accolade" on my wall for 20+ years now. It's obviously a fantasy version of medieval times, but that's OK. 😊

@SnappyDragon

5 ай бұрын

It reminds me very much of what you'd expect to see on a fantasy novel cover from the 1980s. which is probably backwards, but then again I grew up in a house with a huge number of SFF books and no appreciation for the arts . . .

I was under the impression that only unmarried girls and women wore their hair uncovered in the medieval period, especially during their wedding ceremonies, and that donning the first coif or cap was a bit of an after wedding-night ceremony to indicate their married status. Also, that wearing uncovered hair after marriage was the prerogative of queens, especially for events like their coronations.

Up until now, I actually thought Pre-Raphaelites were medieval, like they dated to before the Renaissance artists like Raphael. Most what I saw seemed to be strictly Fantasy/Mythological, which I figured was fine to be just a little weird. The movement is much younger, and more “Vibes” than I realised…and I’m just a tiny bit salty about the name now.