Live how im getting a rabbit hole of Daggerheart rather than being funneled down to dnd! Glad people are looking into it and giving feedback!

@whitefoxplays

3 ай бұрын

Me too!! It's definitely one of my favorite NON-D&D systems to date!

@RecklessFables

3 ай бұрын

The best experience I've ever had running a game was my Star Wars campaign that used the Genesys system. That this game's primary inspiration is listed as Genesys has me all sorts of excited.

Thanks so much for your in-depth review of the topics you were able to cover!

@whitefoxplays

3 ай бұрын

Thanks!!! We could have talked for several hours! lol. We'll cover it again for sure!

Thanks for this breakdown - as the GM for an actual-play stream, I really appreciated your thoroughness. We're seriously considering starting up a 2nd table (running a dark fantasy war story for the primary), and I was looking for something different enough to not be derivative, yet still within what our audience might find interesting. Daggerheart's now in the running!

@whitefoxplays

3 ай бұрын

Awesome!!! Glad to hear it! I think you'll find it a fun system to run, and as I said, the onboarding is incredible for both players and GMs alike! My players are going to adventure using Daggerheart whenever we have schedule conflicts on Hearth & Hammer. :-) - Seth

They may end up printing cards on full sheets of cardstock with perforations for the basic set, because you can package that as an insert. I mean maybe a whole booklet for the basic set, because that's a lot of cards - but a double pack of "book plus cardstock booklet" would save them a fortune on product cost. Cardstock sheets could be an insert for expansion content pretty easily though. On the other hand, a box set does give them the opportunity to include a dice set with different colored d12s which might something they're looking to do. It's too early to say, but they definitely have an array of options depending on what price point they're interested in marketing at. Oh last thing - like many have said, I'm definitely of the opinion they will offer a basic version with many fancy options in the merch store for those who want it. Cheers y'all

@whitefoxplays

3 ай бұрын

Thank for watching and the comments! I agree card inserts would be cheaper, but CR doesn't really do anything cheap, and will most likely opt for high quality gloss cards. They've already sent out prototype box sets to certain youtubers like Bob World Builder; and they were fully printed card decks. I'm sure there will be several options for class specific decks or books only, but we'll see. :-)

@TherronKeen

3 ай бұрын

@@whitefoxplays oh that's awesome, I hadn't seen any info about the test material. And yeah I can imagine they don't want to make anything that feels "cheap". I'd be perfectly happy to add another gorgeous box to my shelf!

@whitefoxplays

3 ай бұрын

@@TherronKeen same!!!! I have ideas for all the fiddly bits though for sure, because I don't think the box will have enough.

Great video, gentlemen!! and I'm so sorry we ruined "Seraph" for you, @whitefoxsg! (but secretly glad that we're not alone on that feeling).

@whitefoxplays

3 ай бұрын

HEY!!!! Thanks for watching and the kind words! No problem at all, I was already not sold on the name when I heard your logic, and it was irrefutable! lol. - Seth

@RecklessFables

3 ай бұрын

Fantasy pulls from all over the world for inspiration. Look at the origin of Berserk, for example. Or literally every god in any of the pantheons. Or Demons and Devils before they got so watered-down they became some sort of universal generic collection of races. Give is a decade and Seraph will be common fantasy verbiage for something similar-to but not-quite the original meaning, just like everything else.

GM gets their turn if they roll with fear OR they fail their attempt. Feel this second part is missed by a lot of folks. pg119 - Oftentimes, these moves will happen when a player rolls with Fear or fails the action they were attempting, but a GM can make a move any time the narrative demands it.

@whitefoxplays

3 ай бұрын

You are correct! I think it's easier to realize when you have a physical action tracker. Not a great option for digital yet.

Angel can just be a nickname. I get it but not a big deal with me.

@whitefoxplays

3 ай бұрын

Not a deal breaker, but definitely not my favorite design choice.

I think wintery d&d mentioned using an action token cap. like 2 action tokens per player before they have to wait for everyone to spend their 2, then all players get their action tokens back. I would also say that, unless they're alone, no player can spend two actions in a row.

@whitefoxplays

3 ай бұрын

A Cap might be good, but I can also see some exceptions maybe of going twice in a row, depending on the abilities needed, but I tend to agree that it should be in turn most of the time. I am going to get different colored tokens for sure for each player. - Seth

33:40 A critical success isn’t just two ones. It’s any time both duality dice match.

@whitefoxplays

3 ай бұрын

Correct! I believe I worded it correctly, I was just trying to point out that even if the roll would have failed otherwise, the doubles were always a critical success. Thanks for watching and commenting!

I do hope they have Aasimar and Genasi or something like them in the game.

@whitefoxplays

3 ай бұрын

Hopefully so!! I'd suggest giving them feedback about it!

Pretty sure its going to be a box set with all the cards and some tokens all in one. Maybe provide your own tokens if you want them but they arent necessary

@whitefoxplays

3 ай бұрын

Yea, Bob World Builder has already shown off a Prototype box set sent to him from CR/Darrington Press. It looks pretty good, but I think it's going to take more tokens and more card decks. Player Class decks will surely be a thing I bet. - Seth

@erikofthenorse

3 ай бұрын

@@whitefoxplays I think the extra cards may be optional.. from my understanding the default game rule is when you select a domain card it removes it from play from others of the same domain giving more varied spread of game play amongst pcs. So surely 1 deck would suffice for that. Though many might choose to allow domains to be shareable so extra individual deck packs will likely be available.. I used to play mtg so I have sooo many glass bead tokens to use for this already lol

@whitefoxplays

3 ай бұрын

@@erikofthenorse that is incorrect, domain cards are not single user only. That would be severely limiting and the rules definitely allow for more than one character taking the same domain. So all the domain cards have to be available for each player. Now obviously people can share as needed, but ideally you hold all your cards.

@erikofthenorse

3 ай бұрын

Sorry I did not word that correctly. It would be my default way to play. But the rules does state both are options as seen in other reviews. I would prefer it limited in that way since there are limited number of domain cards a player can get overlap seems redundant but that's just an opinion. With larger groups I imagine that would be trickier. My gaming group is just 1 gm and 3 players

@whitefoxplays

3 ай бұрын

@@erikofthenorse ah, I get it. I mean that's the beauty of TTRPGs, play as you want! No one can stop you. :-) I have 5 players, and they balance each other out, though some might have a few spell overlaps, like a heal or something. There is not a lot of healing in the domain cards, so it's one of those instances where I think limiting them might hurt.

I prefer the domains to be as cards, if for nothing else, at 5th lvl and beyond you only have the 5 active cards in your load-out. by lvl 10 you'll have 5 in load-out and 6 in your vault, if I've got 11 domains with their full description on my sheet (that will actually require a whole separate sheet of its own) how do I remember what's in my load-out and not. If they choose to modify the character sheets to somehow incorporate the 11 domains, I'm just going to write out my deck on index cards and stick with this method. Tokens: Let's not forget that 5e has it's own acutrama, from the little rings to denote poisoned, cursed, etc. to the measuring tools to determine precisely if that Cone of Frost hit or not. While not being 'required' some mother's basement dweller is going to insist, the cost for all this usually falls completely on the DM. With these tokens if a player wants pretty ones that they bought or made for their character, cool. But going to the bank and getting a roll of quarters is just as valid and the cost is spread equitably.

@whitefoxplays

3 ай бұрын

All excellent points!!

I watched the pocket dimension thing too and I disagree with the seraph thing because "seraphim" is an angel in the hierarchy.. seraph is a name meaning angelic (think matrix revolutions had a program character named seraph).. its fine for a name of a holy class

@EnterThePocketDimension

3 ай бұрын

I really want to give them the benefit of the doubt, @erikofthenorse! I've looked everywhere for a definition where the word "seraph" could be applied to a creature, not actually defining a creature. I even asked GPT, and got this: Q:does "seraph" mean "angelic"? Or specifically "angel"? AI: "Seraph" can refer to an angelic being or specifically to a type of angel characterized by having six wings. Q: but by "angelic being", could it be applied to a human? AI: No, the term "seraph" typically refers to a celestial being or angelic entity and is not commonly applied to humans. And we ALL know how accurate GPT is! :) But still: you have given me a great reason to re-watch Matrix Revolutions!!

@erikofthenorse

3 ай бұрын

@@EnterThePocketDimension I understand where you are coming from an asimar like race called seraph or seraphim would certainly work great. Seraph may be interchangeable to seraphim the biblical term for an angel with siz wings. However I have seen seraph used as a name like the example given. So I am perfectly accepting of using it as a name for a "holy" class or archetype.

@whitefoxplays

3 ай бұрын

@@EnterThePocketDimension I definitely agree, seraph is a noun, a creature unto itself. Also, there are so many more appropriate names for a class. Templar, Crusader, Inquisitor, Sentinel, Radiant, Zealot, Chaplain. I could MAYBE get on board if they wanted to call the particular SUBCLASS with wings a Seraph, but that's still a stretch in My book.

@whitefoxplays

3 ай бұрын

@@erikofthenorse I mean, I've seen some crazy names given to people; that doesn't mean that they SHOULD have been named those names, lol. But if you prefer it, totally acceptable! I plan to leave feedback and often however that it would be less confusing if they changed it.

@RecklessFables

3 ай бұрын

Guild Wars 2 has a military org called the Seraphs. Perhaps in related news, Matt is one of the major voice actors for that game.

I think Seraph is fine, because in this setting seraph is an occupation or a rank, and not an ethnicity or race.

@whitefoxplays

3 ай бұрын

Not yet anyway. There is not a particularly established setting as of yet, at least not that has been publicized. However, I think if they are going to keep the name Angel, then both subclasses should have wings. It's just another inconsistency IMO.

@TherronKeen

3 ай бұрын

the issue is that in all other connotations, seraph is a "specie" of angels from mythology. Sure, they can use the word, but it's weird. Like if there was a class called "Pickup Truck", sure there could be a cargo hauler specializing class, but in all other contexts, Pickup Truck is a wheeled vehicle.

@RecklessFables

3 ай бұрын

​In Guild Wars 2, in which Matt voices one of the main characters, an entire military organization are called the Seraphs ​@@TherronKeen

@TherronKeen

3 ай бұрын

@@RecklessFables That's a name of an organization, that's not redefining the word "seraph." Like a military squad calling themselves the Cobras doesn't equate to "now the word Cobra also means soldier."

@RecklessFables

3 ай бұрын

@@TherronKeen I'm going to paste my argument from another subthread since YT comments don't thread well. Fantasy pulls from all over the world for inspiration. Look at the origin of Berserk, for example. Or literally every god in any of the pantheons. Or Demons and Devils before they got so watered-down they became some sort of universal generic collection of races. Or Paladin. Give it a decade and seraph will be common fantasy verbiage for something similar-to but not-quite the original meaning, just like everything else. Let's be honest, as soon as you heard there was a class named "seraph" you pretty much got it, eh?

I disagree that there will ONLY be box sets. I would put high bets there would be the "box sets", which would include the book rules, and all the decks and some extras (like I made a tracker for Hope, Stress, Hp, and Armor) and probably a set of dice with an extra d12, and then just the book rules sold by themselves (also just a .pdf version for even cheaper), and then decks sold by themselves. (And the book / .pdf would have them set up like the beta version now where you could print your own.) Because only really one person at each table needs ALL the things. They almost certainly could share the decks. And honestly the decks aren't really necessary. Sure, I've made cards for D&D abilities years and years ago, so for ME they work great. But really just noting the abilities for DH, especially in the lower levels where you only have a few, would work just fine. My big question, especially the more I think about it, is; if you can swap any abilities/cards at any time, why are you only supposed to take a couple at a time? It seems like it might make more sense to say 'here are all of your abilities for this class and each has a hope and/or stress cost', because that's effectively what it boils down to if you can swap at any time for the cost of the stress. I get it if they are doing it to limit how much players are learning at once. Or even more importantly to make characters of the same class different from one another, but can they ever really be different if all abilities are effectively available at all times? And how different are they really since classes share 1 of 2 'decks' with another class? Like if you look at Bard and Rogue, who each only used Grace, that would make them far more similar than not. Yeah, it's a lighter / less complex game compared to things like D&D and Pathfinder, but I think maybe it could use a bit more depth than it currently has. (Like increase each deck by 30-40% and don't allow things to be swapped outside of long rests.) They are going to have to do expansions at some point, or do more before launch. Because right now there is no Monk class at all. You can't even force an existing class into it, it just wouldn't work. Same with Gunslinger, or even trying to pretend to be one with something like Warrior and using Finess. A ranged Warrior just wouldn't really work due to what the class cards do. (You could try, but it would be very challenging.)

@Pandormu

3 ай бұрын

post level 5 the vault opens up for you, which based on the rules allows for "hot-swapping" of cards during play, for a stress cost, and you can also make a loadout during a rest, so it means packing more powerful cards for combat and not suffering when rp happens, as most of the rp cards are 0 stress, but that does mean to get the strong combat card back in a pinch its 1-3 stress, which is pretty good balance imo. all in all the system is more story /rp based, and more friendly to newer players as it heavily limits base cards etc.

@Pandormu

3 ай бұрын

my hope is that the game comes out with a nice binder with all the cards printed and sleeved, and that they add books with, a class, and adventure etc.

@rabb1tdotcom-ie3vk

3 ай бұрын

​@@Pandormu Hum. I guess limiting it to level 5 and up it's more for easing people into what the cards do then. I still question how unique I'd feel compared to others of the same class if anyone can do everything at any time just by swapping.

@rabb1tdotcom-ie3vk

3 ай бұрын

@@Pandormu That seems a bit extreme. I'd say if they did that it would have to be a specially printed binder (like the special cover versions of things they've done) and probably limited to a run of only 500 because that's a LOT of effort. And, of course, very expensive. No doubt there will be expansions. Like I mentioned, Monk and Gunslinger are the obvious classes missing so far. I could see them having something like 2 other classes with those, then if they were 'designed right' that would be an expansion of 4 new decks (since each class shares 2). So that's a new smaller circle compared to the large one they have now. Races too. Like I've got a character now I'd run from Marquet who is an Iguana lizard. There currently isn't a lizard race (so I'd have to modify Ribbit) and there's no "Desertborn" background. (Closest would be a flavored wanderer.) So there definitely are options. (No bird race currently either.)

@Pandormu

3 ай бұрын

@@rabb1tdotcom-ie3vk no different from playing at a table with 2 or more of the same class in dnd 5e, that's were the domains really shine, each class has 2 domains so even if you have the same class at the table, then yo can have wildly different builds or "decks"