We Tested the Damage Bucket Theory - How Damage Works in Diablo 4

Ойындар

#Diablo4 #Damage #Mechanics #DiabloPartner
Before Diablo 4's launch many people spend their time theorycrafting the best builds possible. In recent weeks the damage bucket theory has been going around that people used to crunch the numbers. With the Diablo 4 early access we managed to verify a lot of important mechanics that confirm the theory. But beware: Don't trust no tooltip!
Northwar's Testing Manifesto: docs.google.com/document/d/1a...
Northwar's Stream: / northwar
Northwar's KZread: / @northwar
The "Damage Bucket" Sheet by SnowRaven: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
Learn more about Damage Categories in Diablo 4: maxroll.gg/d4/getting-started...
Find all my builds on my Discord: / discord
My Diablo 4 Playlist: • Diablo IV
Maxroll's Diablo 4 Branch: maxroll.gg/d4/news/diablo-4-n...
D4 Launch Classes Tier List: • Updated Diablo 4 Tier ...
Timestamps:
00:00 What are Damage Buckets
01:31 Evolution of the Theory
03:03 The Different Damage Categories
06:05 Which Stats to Stack
-----------
Stream: / wudijo
Discord: / discord
Path of Exile Channel: / @wudijo_poe
Twitter: / wudijo
Maxroll Website: maxroll.gg/
Maxroll Discord: / discord
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I cover Diablo 3 & Diablo 4, but also other ARPGs like Diablo 2, Last Epoch & more. For Path of Exile content, visit my 2nd Channel "wudijo PoE". Here you can find game and build guides, highlights, clips from my streams, memes and more! Hope you enjoy my content :)
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Пікірлер: 251

  • @wudijo
    @wudijo Жыл бұрын

    Always remember: Don't trust no tooltip.

  • @jonrich9675

    @jonrich9675

    Жыл бұрын

    audio is so much better. Keep up the good work

  • @melikmollaahmetoglu

    @melikmollaahmetoglu

    Жыл бұрын

    I only trust you Captain.

  • @marsovac

    @marsovac

    Жыл бұрын

    Wudijo can you please tell me something? Does attack speed increase the rate of fire of rapid fire? I see that for whirlwind and incinerate (also channeled skills) it doesn't. My build depends on it.

  • @joethesheep4675

    @joethesheep4675

    Жыл бұрын

    @@marsovacyou need to keep in mind breakpoints for channeled skills such as the ones you mentioned. So the answer is yes and no.

  • @TheBrotipz

    @TheBrotipz

    Жыл бұрын

    Your link to your discord is invalid. It probably timed out.

  • @juanjurado8677
    @juanjurado8677 Жыл бұрын

    “Potion healing seems to be very valuable to the developers” LOL

  • @j.p.2800

    @j.p.2800

    Жыл бұрын

    On his level 78 rogue in the previous video, he got 9 potions. I mean, it almost looks like you can make a whole build around spamming healing potions instead of defensives, lol.

  • @cracwowcrac

    @cracwowcrac

    Жыл бұрын

    @@j.p.2800 Theres also some paragon glyph and abilities ive seen that drop extra potions, i think it would be kinda cool if their was some weird potion spam build

  • @Smashy_RB
    @Smashy_RB Жыл бұрын

    Great video and thanks to everyone that's been busy testing! I know stuff like that takes a lot of time, used to do a lot of theorycrafting back in D2 and the tooltips were wrong there too :D

  • @Tekvorian
    @Tekvorian Жыл бұрын

    Great video. thanks for all the testing

  • @oljomo
    @oljomo Жыл бұрын

    No mention of overpower in that video? Does that scale with everything there or not?

  • @pjandbunzobunnygaming1191
    @pjandbunzobunnygaming1191 Жыл бұрын

    @wudijo, What about Damage while barrier is active. what bucket does it fall to? own multiplier?

  • @KingKull71
    @KingKull71 Жыл бұрын

    Thanks for confirming this - much appreciated.

  • @austinhenson6068
    @austinhenson6068 Жыл бұрын

    This is a great video that really helps explain and break down the damage mechanics in the game, so thank you for posting this! One question though, where does Ultimate Skill Damage fall within these buckets? Is it part of the additive, or is it a separate one?

  • @kevinking596
    @kevinking596 Жыл бұрын

    Hey wudijo, any chance you can a video of your thoughts on Def needs in hardcore? Best ways to get good dmg reduction, such as just stack one form or if there is too much scaling with one Def stat

  • @baTonkaTruck
    @baTonkaTruck Жыл бұрын

    Good explanation, solid video. Some feedback: Do some examples using the actual dmg formula where you: 1. Calculate a chars total modified damage 2. Calculate how swapping a different item will change that char’s damage 3. Repeat (2) for different damage types We need to see real examples with the formula+numbers, because the value in understanding damage mod mechanics is making confident gear upgrade choices. Rules of thumb are nice, but not informative enough IMO.

  • @Winterhe4rt
    @Winterhe4rt Жыл бұрын

    What about passives and legend aspects that do "[x] % damage". Arey they individually multiplied or do they go into the same [x] -bucket together?

  • @Ellesenar
    @Ellesenar Жыл бұрын

    I have 3 questions about rogue: 1. Did you try Flurry build? Is it good enough in endgame? 2. What weapon are used when you use Puncture: swords or bow ? 3. How you manage to survive in endgame, is it hard? Had you problem with staying alive ?

  • @SandrigoZoilo
    @SandrigoZoilo Жыл бұрын

    The legend, rendering while recording new videos! Keep it up!

  • @doyleatreyu
    @doyleatreyu Жыл бұрын

    While explaining i can't get my eyes on the premiere pro app being done. so I will be expecting another video soon. keep it up wudi!

  • @NicoBlackXIV
    @NicoBlackXIV Жыл бұрын

    One question: is "Damage vs vulnerable" different from "Vulnerable damage"? On my rogue I got all the skilltree nodes that increase damage vs vulnerable BUT my vulnerable damage stat doesn't change from 20%. I understand it may not add the one specific to bow but it doesn't make much sense for the other one.

  • @spncrptrsn

    @spncrptrsn

    Жыл бұрын

    I came here to ask the same question.

  • @bryanbryan6108
    @bryanbryan6108 Жыл бұрын

    My question with this, is why isn’t this in-depth information provided by game developers after THEY thoroughly test the game THEY created? They know they are making a game that revolves around maths…so everything an advanced player needs to know to push their character as far as possible should be available officially.

  • @Archangelmd
    @Archangelmd Жыл бұрын

    Thank you Wudijo!

  • @VseNikiSukaZanyaty
    @VseNikiSukaZanyaty Жыл бұрын

    What is the difference between "[X] % Damage" and "[+] % Damage"? How to distinguish them?

  • @FluxFresh96

    @FluxFresh96

    Жыл бұрын

    It's just gaming design for scaling your damage through multiple sources. Multiplicative damage is powerful and rarer than additive damage but you still need both in order to scale your dmg. How do you know if the % increase is additive or multiplicative ? Well you enable the extended tooltips option in the settings and closely look at the skills and also with the help from the community like this spreadsheet in the video. How does the calculation work ? Its simple. First you have to be 100% sure if the dmg increase is additive [+] or multiplicative [×]. Then you add all the additive [+] numbers together. Example: 10% + 30% + 50% + 60% = 150%. This final number itself is a multiplier btw (1 + 0.1 + 0.3+ 0.5 + 0.6) = 2.5 Now you look at your multiplicative [x] % damage sources and simply multiply everything with each other. Lets take the same numbers like above: 10%, 30%, 50%, 60%. Its important to not add these numbers together like we did with the [+] numbers. You multiply them with each other because these are multiplicative [x]. 1.1 x 1.3 x 1.5 x 1.6 = 3,432. Now we have calculated the multipliers from all the [+] and [x] numbers and need the base damage to apply these numbers on. Lets say our twisting blade does 100 base damage. Then you simply: 100 x 2.5 x 3,432 = 858. This means our Twisting blades do 858 dmg. Now to understand the difference between the scaling between [+] % and [x] % lets go further. You dropped 2 gloves. Glove A gives [+] 20% dmg and glove B gives [x] 20% dmg. Glove A: Since this is additive you have to take our first calculation and add the new number: 10% + 30% + 50% + 60% +20% = 170% This means our new multiplier from all the [+] is (1+ 0.1 + 0.3 + 0.5 + 0.6 + 0.2) = 2.7 The multiplier from [x] hasn't changed and is still 3,432. We take our made up base damage from twisting blades again and: 100 × 2.7 x 3.432 = 926,64. Now Glove B. Since this is multiplicative the beauty is that we can take our already calculated number from Twisting Blades, which was 858 and simply multiply it with the [x] 20% and get: 858 x 1.2 = 1029,6. We can clearly see that glove B adds more damage. About roughly ~11% more damage than glove A to be exact.

  • @Name-..-

    @Name-..-

    10 ай бұрын

    @@FluxFresh96Thx

  • @ThijsSchrijnemakers
    @ThijsSchrijnemakers Жыл бұрын

    Very enlightning, thanks

  • @islander1
    @islander1 Жыл бұрын

    Your discord link in description does not appear to be valid anymore, I just tried it.

  • @Thing_0
    @Thing_0 Жыл бұрын

    so what happens when it doesnt show + or x before the number?

  • @FireSwordable
    @FireSwordable Жыл бұрын

    Good to get this resolved. I am a bit disappointed by the result, however. This removes a large part of the endgame character building complexity, that I thought would be super cool.

  • @AugustusMcCrae_LD
    @AugustusMcCrae_LD Жыл бұрын

    Any chance you know how sorceress legendary node “enchantment” works being 20% stronger enchantments and how that applies to skills with no damage? For instance Ice blades (40 sec cooldown spent to spawn ice blade). Would it be 20% reduction in cooldown?

  • @AaronBurnsVoT

    @AaronBurnsVoT

    Жыл бұрын

    I've wondered this too

  • @Gamesager
    @Gamesager Жыл бұрын

    damage while healthy increases your attack stat, which is where your main stat increases as well. and putting on damage while healthy, will directly make the damage while standing still aspect give you more damage and multiply off of it. So I think its actually just inaccurately labeled as + when its not

  • @ricardoabh3242
    @ricardoabh3242 Жыл бұрын

    In one of his video, he mentioned a lexicon for beginners, does anyone know the link?

  • @thehatebringer8005
    @thehatebringer8005 Жыл бұрын

    does anyone know if the sorcer aspect that gives increased vuln dmg while you have a barriar up count as the flat vuln dmg or does it go into the same bucket as the other while heathy type bucket because its really hard for me to tell

  • @basedanon420

    @basedanon420

    Жыл бұрын

    Pretty sure the conceited aspect is bugged

  • @OpenWrldHeadHunter
    @OpenWrldHeadHunter Жыл бұрын

    I REALLY want to play bleed/thorns barb. Raxx suggested not to play it anymore after the server slam but I wasn’t sure if he had his hands on end game info or not and was giving a big wink wink. I’m still going to try and play it and I’m really hoping that it’s viable.

  • @Justinl12086

    @Justinl12086

    Жыл бұрын

    I started a bleed barb during server slam and wasn't disappointed

  • @eroll2

    @eroll2

    Жыл бұрын

    Can't find it now but there's a lvl100 Nightmare dungeon bleed Barb video I saw a few hours ago. So it can't be too bad!

  • @chrismartin3462

    @chrismartin3462

    Жыл бұрын

    Yeah Raxx answered me on stream yesterday and said endgame bleed/thorns will be viable. Was going to be my go to and will still be working to build it starting Thursday!!

  • @OpenWrldHeadHunter

    @OpenWrldHeadHunter

    Жыл бұрын

    @@chrismartin3462 awesome!

  • @OpenWrldHeadHunter

    @OpenWrldHeadHunter

    Жыл бұрын

    @@eroll2 sweet I’ll try and find it!

  • @dannyrie1
    @dannyrie111 ай бұрын

    where would you rank weapon dps in this? for example, if a Wep A has 10% more dps than Wep B, is this a bigger difference than having 10% more vuln?

  • @templarclips9235
    @templarclips9235 Жыл бұрын

    Damage to vulnurable is the same as vulnurable damage or it goes to upper bucket?

  • @socraticknowsnothing

    @socraticknowsnothing

    Жыл бұрын

    I hope he answers this.

  • @kyoukatsuariadust6744

    @kyoukatsuariadust6744

    Жыл бұрын

    there is just the condition vulnurable which is +20% dmg baseline, everthing else is dmg to vulnurable enemies and is additive so 20% + 10% + 5% = 35% dmg to vulnurable enemies afaik from rykker, raxx and wudi

  • @socraticknowsnothing

    @socraticknowsnothing

    Жыл бұрын

    @@kyoukatsuariadust6744 Do you have a link where they say that? I have watched a ton of their content and have only seen it referred to as "multiplicative" but never actually explained. +20% damage to vulnerable enemies could be: 1. Additive with the main +% damage bucket (the big one, with most other affixes). Wudijo seems to be saying it is not, and is just "Vulnerable Damage" and is in some way multiplicative. 2. Multiplicative with the base Vulnerable bonus (20%), so 20% x .2 = 4 so makes the Vulnerable bonus 24%. 3. Additive with the base Vulnerable bonus, so 20% + 20% = the Vulnerable bonus becomes 40%. There are other stranger options, but those are the main 3. Would really love to know which one it is, in non-ambiguous terms. Wudijo saying it is "multiplicative" probably rules out option 1, unless "vulnerable damage" isn't the same as "damage to vulnerable enemies", but the details matter.

  • @radamtechnology5912

    @radamtechnology5912

    Жыл бұрын

    @@socraticknowsnothing See many videos today. All that says vulnerable +% is additive... 20base + 5 +5 +5+ 10 +100(glyph) + 10

  • @radamtechnology5912

    @radamtechnology5912

    Жыл бұрын

    @@socraticknowsnothing See Rob2628, he beat a game to lvl100 and clear the hardest content. His Barb stack vulnerable to 455,1%, so he deals X5,551 multiplier to vulnerable enenmies

  • @xLymee
    @xLymee Жыл бұрын

    Do we know if there is a snapshot dot mechanic? For example, let's say we have a damage bonus on healthy enemies, and we applied bleed/poison on them. Does the damage bonus calculated per tick, or from initial hit? (let's say we deal 100 poison damage per second on healthy enemies, if they go below healthy bar, is the poison dot that was applied earlier will stay at 100 or lose its damage bonus?) I assume that if it works the same way as dot works on dodge chance, than dot damage should snapshot when the hit itself occurs.

  • @kylebusc3624

    @kylebusc3624

    Жыл бұрын

    Also wondering the same thing

  • @qizhenggu20
    @qizhenggu20 Жыл бұрын

    hi there I want to swap out one aspect for avalanche, which one is least effective? aspect of control/ edgemaster/ conceited? Are they all overall multipliers? I believe control is most effective from the docs attched in the description. Say I have full mana with a barrier active and enemy are frozen. My damage would be *1.2*1.25*1.35 compared with otherwise. Am I correct?

  • @pititful

    @pititful

    Жыл бұрын

    No you're wrong

  • @chrismoore1372
    @chrismoore1372 Жыл бұрын

    So then is something like the Druids passive natures reach pretty useless later on? Does that skill also just add into the Damage from/vs bucket?

  • @DkDerek

    @DkDerek

    Жыл бұрын

    Absolutely not, it has an [x] next to it.

  • @3illy5
    @3illy5 Жыл бұрын

    I want to play a melee only necro and I’m not a longtime Diablo play so I don’t know how main stats affect classes. Does the intelligence affect necro period or does it affect things like spells rather the physical?

  • @eroll2

    @eroll2

    Жыл бұрын

    Period

  • @3illy5

    @3illy5

    Жыл бұрын

    @@eroll2 thanx 😊

  • @mattcross399
    @mattcross399 Жыл бұрын

    Here’s the real question though. If you have say 3 of the (x)+ damage categories that are multiplicative…are they added amongst themselves or do they count as a multiplier on top of the base damage

  • @ayyyylmaoooo
    @ayyyylmaoooo Жыл бұрын

    are rare and magic paragon nodes that give %dmg their own bucket or do they go in grey category bucket ?

  • @DkDerek

    @DkDerek

    Жыл бұрын

    grey

  • @Dzagiel77
    @Dzagiel77 Жыл бұрын

    Thanks!

  • @bobnewkirk7003
    @bobnewkirk7003 Жыл бұрын

    was any testing done on overpower damage? its known to be based on fortify, but if we are talking about damage in the hundreds of thousands, a fortify value of your base life is only going to add a couple thousand in the endgame.

  • @jetrpg22
    @jetrpg22 Жыл бұрын

    What about "damage vs vulnerable" vs "vulnerable damage"?

  • @beowuulf

    @beowuulf

    Жыл бұрын

    All damage is additive , vuln is multiplicative, So always go for vuln then crit dmg

  • @cgctorrag
    @cgctorrag11 ай бұрын

    how does paragon non-physical damage fit in this?

  • @hamszynka
    @hamszynka Жыл бұрын

    I'm pretty sure that Basic and Core Skill Damage bonuses are their own buckets respectively to each skill. I was testing Basic Skill damage with gems during the beta on my barb with Lunging strike and its upgrade that makes enemies bleed. With 6 gems socketed in the Basic Damage would be increased by 75% total. And that's what I noticed exactly both in tooltips and in performance. I had decent gear, no Basic Skill Damage on weapon stats, but plenty of close, vulnerable and other sources of damage. And would still note that aproximate damage increase. And this was even more evident in the skill Tooltip. If lunge did 200 direct damage, and 120 bleed damage, after putting in all the basic skill damage gems the numbers would up to 350 and 210 bleed damage. I'm pretty sure that Close, vulnerable and other stats would be added afterwards multiplicatively.

  • @TickerSymbolYOU
    @TickerSymbolYOU Жыл бұрын

    So Versus, While, With, and From are all the same bucket. Very interesting.

  • @shakalocco

    @shakalocco

    Жыл бұрын

    Yo! Nice to see you enjoy D4.

  • @dexterbennett1054

    @dexterbennett1054

    Жыл бұрын

    Eh, I guess I can skip the video now

  • @BBpoopin
    @BBpoopin Жыл бұрын

    Gimme that Diablo 4 content BOI

  • @stevenashford4174
    @stevenashford4174 Жыл бұрын

    Blizz really should just have an icon to indicate multiplicative or additive. Would make it far easier to weigh up gear and make builds without all this hidden info. Depth is good but not when things work in inconsistent and unexpected ways ..

  • @Icemario87

    @Icemario87

    11 ай бұрын

    they do, it's just inaccurate. "[×]" & "[+]"

  • @hibbity_hooblah
    @hibbity_hooblah Жыл бұрын

    Thank you for this

  • @Vegan-sj1cv
    @Vegan-sj1cv Жыл бұрын

    what about damage vs vulnerable? is this is a multiplier or is it just increased vulnerable damage that is the multiplier?

  • @retnuHDJ

    @retnuHDJ

    Жыл бұрын

    I think it just gets added to the vulnerable multiplier of 20% extra damage

  • @haroldhamburgler
    @haroldhamburgler Жыл бұрын

    You completely left out overpower damage which is very important for the necromancer since they can get it consistently with blood surge and Rathma's vigor. It is kind of its own bucket. It's a bit different because overpower damage % stat only multiplies the part of the overpower damage from health and fortify and doesn't effect the weapon damage.

  • @coffeeteapvp5512
    @coffeeteapvp5512 Жыл бұрын

    Wow! Ty

  • @GlobalFreeBeats
    @GlobalFreeBeats Жыл бұрын

    Isn't crit damage also conditional? If you don't crit than that multiplier is useless yeah?

  • @adriaandavel9540
    @adriaandavel9540 Жыл бұрын

    A zero rng test dummy will be very nice for this sort of thing. WoW has it, I was really hoping they'd add it d4 too

  • @lvic4

    @lvic4

    Жыл бұрын

    so many youtubers would be out of job tho :D

  • @zeb4360
    @zeb4360 Жыл бұрын

    Is that the Lilith edition Secret Lab's chair I see?

  • @Boser3
    @Boser3 Жыл бұрын

    I am getting an expired error on the discord link. Is this a me problem?

  • @XxTheRocket9xX
    @XxTheRocket9xX Жыл бұрын

    Is this sheet available anywhere?

  • @OrganicJKW

    @OrganicJKW

    Жыл бұрын

    It's in the Description: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Om18GXa0BU7_hjLEKPt2915eWencDtR-SNS9WnVTEcs/htmlview#gid=0

  • @tinfoilpapercut3547
    @tinfoilpapercut3547 Жыл бұрын

    So this kind of sucks in the fact that now it's: "Bigger number better ungu bunga" when evaluating gear and skills / paragon. Also, if your character can't keep vulnerable up as close to 100% then your character sucks. It's mandatory like slag in BL2.

  • @diluca1977
    @diluca1977 Жыл бұрын

    shock lightning doesn’t need vulnerable at all so it’s not mandatory in this case

  • @KamiLabsNews
    @KamiLabsNews Жыл бұрын

    What about overpower damage ? own bucket ?

  • @greyalice

    @greyalice

    Жыл бұрын

    Wasn't tested.

  • @CakeDayZ
    @CakeDayZ Жыл бұрын

    I'm really glad a bunch of damage is additive, gearing would be a nightmare looking for exactly one of each of these unique mutlipliers.

  • @DkDerek

    @DkDerek

    Жыл бұрын

    Instead you stop picking up gear at all unless you need gold. Lol.

  • @Warfalcon
    @Warfalcon Жыл бұрын

    Unless I'm just unlucky there is no affix with a X in front of it. I think that X is just a placeholder for your actual percentage amount that the person used to make this sheet. 6:00

  • @DkDerek

    @DkDerek

    Жыл бұрын

    do you have advanced tooltips on? what class? most of mine say [x], passives as well.

  • @rafaelyser7935
    @rafaelyser7935 Жыл бұрын

    Is overpowered damage a multiplier? I see it on 2h maces for druid but nowhere on your sheet.

  • @kiss2

    @kiss2

    Жыл бұрын

    The overpower damage bonuses only scale with Health and Fortify, not the base damage So actually u can expect overpower underperforming lategame 🤔

  • @lucassinrod6471
    @lucassinrod6471 Жыл бұрын

    where does overpower fit into this scheme? is it its own bucket like crit? else are overpower #s only ever additive?

  • @DkDerek

    @DkDerek

    Жыл бұрын

    added as flat at the end. it's bad

  • @donmanolito1980
    @donmanolito1980 Жыл бұрын

    Is it true that overpower doesn't scale with other multipliers but just willpower, HP and fortify? It sounds so that it's getting weaker with higher level.

  • @bobnewkirk7003

    @bobnewkirk7003

    Жыл бұрын

    ya coming out of Macro's Necro vid and this is a top priority for me. if overpower is an entirely separate system the blood builds are dead at endgame.

  • @boybakergg
    @boybakergg Жыл бұрын

    that's bad for the game, and makes it easier to build characters. But it saved me points for a full paragon board.

  • @coulterjb22
    @coulterjb22 Жыл бұрын

    wudijo- Would a lot of CC damage on a boss help trigger stagger? So a build focused on stuns, or freezing is not great for boss fights?

  • @pederikodelaguza

    @pederikodelaguza

    Жыл бұрын

    yes and yes

  • @debikichi
    @debikichi Жыл бұрын

    It pleases me to know the D2 legacy of the LCS is being carried forth into the next generation.

  • @generaltso1076
    @generaltso1076 Жыл бұрын

    I like the facial expressions you make in all your thumbnails

  • @kisuant1217
    @kisuant1217 Жыл бұрын

    So the yellows are additive? Appreciate the efforts with this. I still think it's mad they don't simply have it in the stat page, broken down stats with an indicating it's x or +.

  • @dio4296

    @dio4296

    Жыл бұрын

    the grey ones are the additive. Yellow is the crit dmg/chance increase bucket. The tl:dr is to increase the first 2, then yellow and Vulnerable damage as much as possible. Increase attack speed if your build has no resource issues and then go for the grey ones that your build can keep online as much as possible for example "against burning enemies" is a very good one for sorcerers since you can have a 100% uptime on it.

  • @goseals6
    @goseals6 Жыл бұрын

    If this bucket is still in place it means that the rare glyphs that give % increased damage while X are the worst glyphs from the paragon board, because they fall into the additive bucket. I'm a werewolf druid main, and I tested with with our werewolf glyph that gives % increased damage while a werewolf. There did not not seem to be any increase in damage dealt with this rare glyph. In fact, I'm leaning towards it being worse than the blue glyph that gives a flat % crit damage increase. The damage bucket calculations really forked up the paragon board which was supposed to be our largest source of increase in damage.

  • @Anthony-mf3pu
    @Anthony-mf3pu Жыл бұрын

    I’m actually glad it’s not too complex.

  • @Neonmirrorblack

    @Neonmirrorblack

    Жыл бұрын

    Well, it makes the entire system a sham. It makes it look complex, but in the end it's the same as it ever was: main stat, crit chance, crit damage, vulnerable...yawn.

  • @bubbleillusion5968

    @bubbleillusion5968

    Жыл бұрын

    ​@@Neonmirrorblack yep, pretty much ruins it

  • @goalkeeer316
    @goalkeeer316 Жыл бұрын

    What about overpower? Is it in different bucket?

  • @VimDoozy

    @VimDoozy

    Жыл бұрын

    "Overpower is not a multiplier. Overpower just adds some damage on top of your hit". - Maxroll I think that means it's not in any bucket.

  • @toddschwiebert9100
    @toddschwiebert9100 Жыл бұрын

    I will say as I was an avid pvper, if your potion heals you for 50% more HP than your enemy and there is a cooldown on your potion it is certainly a gigantic advantage in pvp if you don't have to sacrifice a huge amount of damage to obtain the increase. That is just my opinion.

  • @susulemons
    @susulemons Жыл бұрын

    instead of find another more accurate damage bucket sheet, would be super cool if maxroll contributes back to the open source google sheet

  • @hagaiak
    @hagaiak Жыл бұрын

    What about damage from? You didn't test any damage from bonuses, like "damage from dodging".

  • @kristin149
    @kristin149 Жыл бұрын

    What about overpower?

  • @aras8539
    @aras8539 Жыл бұрын

    Would be an understatement to say that my brain is frying, but time to learn this

  • @Flying_Scorpion
    @Flying_Scorpion Жыл бұрын

    5 buckets to multiply eachother. I just hope that the numbers don't scale into the billions because adding more zeros to the damage numbers gets kinda stupid after awhile.

  • @exisfohdr3904

    @exisfohdr3904

    Жыл бұрын

    How about they do the math to convert to damage into a percent of the enemies' health? That way, people can stop complaining about numbers that are too big.

  • @retnuHDJ

    @retnuHDJ

    Жыл бұрын

    @@exisfohdr3904 Or they can just disable the numbers showing in the options menu

  • @dzzzzzt
    @dzzzzzt Жыл бұрын

    Does this mean that all those types of Critical Strike damage sources are multiplicative? Say, CS Damage and CS Damage vs Vulnerable. Do both increaase the damage multiplicatively when CS-ing a Vulnerable enemy? What if they're CCed, Vulnerable and you strike them with a Core skill? That's four different xXX to damage, is it not? Just want to make sure I understand it correctly.

  • @Blickter

    @Blickter

    Жыл бұрын

    Crit damage is just a conditional bucket of it's own. Any modifier to crit damage would apply to a crit. Those modifiers would be additive together, and multiplicative to other buckets. Conditional sources of crit damage would apply (and feed into the additive crit damage bucket) when the conditions are met.

  • @dzzzzzt

    @dzzzzzt

    Жыл бұрын

    @@Blickter So all crit damage (vs stunned, with core, etc.) are additive in the crit group but the whole crit group is multiplicative to other buckets. Do I understand it correctly now?

  • @Blickter

    @Blickter

    Жыл бұрын

    @@dzzzzzt Yeah that's right. Just remember that crit is a conditional multiplier itself (unless you have 100% crit chance). So when you crit, damage is multiplied by the cumulative crit multiplier. Within that bucket, everything is additive.

  • @dzzzzzt

    @dzzzzzt

    Жыл бұрын

    @@Blickter I got it. Thank you for the explanation!!!

  • @RamonAlek
    @RamonAlek Жыл бұрын

    Berserking is a multiplier.

  • @lewchootrain
    @lewchootrain Жыл бұрын

    Just like in my magic the gathering deck builds/in my dating life: if it’s too conditional it’s probably not good

  • @MrFrmartin
    @MrFrmartin Жыл бұрын

    What is difference between [X] % damage and [+] % Damage?

  • @Blickter

    @Blickter

    Жыл бұрын

    Aspects were the reference for [X] % damage. So like, "Deal 20% increased damage with core skills" as a legendary aspect would be a multiplier.

  • @jeffreyramiro4521
    @jeffreyramiro4521 Жыл бұрын

    Is Storm Skill Damage% Additive or Multiplicative? Thanks!

  • @DkDerek

    @DkDerek

    Жыл бұрын

    additive within that huge bucket. its probably bad depending on the piece of gear

  • @Szabysvk
    @Szabysvk Жыл бұрын

    The amount of hours as a druid to calculate where to put what and how much, I am pissed that it went to waste :D

  • @Dgnine

    @Dgnine

    Жыл бұрын

    Same I think the bucket system had been dumbed down too much. I was excited to choose my paragons based on dmg bucket diversity...

  • @iamdopeasfcuk

    @iamdopeasfcuk

    Жыл бұрын

    it's not really a waste because all those hours made you more familiar with the different paragon boards, glyphs, etc. that will help when making future builds

  • @susulemons
    @susulemons Жыл бұрын

    basically one huge bucket there is to give you a sense of variety but its not

  • @CV-lm7pv
    @CV-lm7pv Жыл бұрын

    Sorc's lack of access to the critical damage multiplier is the reason why their base skill damage needed to be high. But for some reason we demanded it to be nerfed. Now what? Also, how is overpower not a category by itself? I mean I'm happy it's not, I'm just curious if it actually behaves like a critical additive

  • @andrewf7732

    @andrewf7732

    Жыл бұрын

    Yeah, destruction glyph (core skill builds) and exploit glyph are mandatory for sorc builds. Mastery based builds won't be able to use destruction, though, but fire has access to crit damage passive.

  • @etrosknight2254

    @etrosknight2254

    Жыл бұрын

    This is an instance of balancing around endgame leading to bad balance while leveling, which led to everyone playing sorc and the "17 damage" druid meme. It's not good design to have both classes end at the same power level, but 90% of the journey to max level someone playing druid has a much worse experience than someone playing a sorc. If the change they made nerfs sorc in the end game too much then hopefully they can make other changes to compensate

  • @Neonmirrorblack

    @Neonmirrorblack

    Жыл бұрын

    Similarly with the Necro pets. They were terrible *end game* pre-nerf, and after Blizzard gutted them into the ground from whence they came, and then "buffed" them (LOL) slightly, they are still going to be garbage tier at level 100. Fantastic foresight they don't seem to have, and they've just been entirely reactionary to the whining crowd who also don't really know what pets were like late game, only how they were up to level 25...

  • @johntan8343

    @johntan8343

    Жыл бұрын

    Did I see correctly? I thought Barb has the least crit multiplier

  • @CV-lm7pv

    @CV-lm7pv

    Жыл бұрын

    ​​​​​​@@johntan8343t's not the sources what matter, different means of Crit end up in the same multiplier (bucket) It's the % what's important and apparently overpower is just another form of Crit. This is why Sorc is fuck3d, she doesn't have access to OP, or significant critical damage via skills and on top of that Staffs and wands apparently DO NOT have crit modifiers 😱 Even if Barb didn't have a good skill based crit build, it wouldn't matter because their arsenal allows them to do anything they want and it will only get more and more powerful by season when new weapons are introduced. Rogue is in a similar position with a semi-arsenal and tons of Crit. While Druid gets their own version of crit via overpower and it's completely nuts. Sorc is fun but meaningless, but at least it's not Necro (poor boy) 😅 And it's all OUR fault, we asked for this 🙃

  • @oscargn14
    @oscargn14 Жыл бұрын

    Are you Canadian...?

  • @Purplenbrown
    @Purplenbrown Жыл бұрын

    Owerpover - LuL

  • @tylermoon6397
    @tylermoon6397 Жыл бұрын

    easy to "freeze" a boss with shards/barrier sorc

  • @Steph1
    @Steph1 Жыл бұрын

    This sheet doesn’t include overpower though. Is that additive or multiplicative?

  • @DkDerek

    @DkDerek

    Жыл бұрын

    added at the end as flat damage....so it's probably worthless. yay i added 10k damage at the end of a 3 million hit

  • @cmdrjoshhawkins1888
    @cmdrjoshhawkins1888 Жыл бұрын

    where does overpower fit into this?

  • @wudijo

    @wudijo

    Жыл бұрын

    It's seemingly unaffected by most or any of these and just its own little bonus

  • @RocketCatRTS
    @RocketCatRTS Жыл бұрын

    Mah Imbiber stonks

  • @toddbryant8193
    @toddbryant8193 Жыл бұрын

    Did you find a shako?!?

  • @CV-lm7pv
    @CV-lm7pv Жыл бұрын

    True, damage vs CC is a waste in the current state of the game. Bosses go down before they can even be staggered. I was going for the staggering Sorc, but what's the point? If you are not a Barb or a Rogue, you are dead weigh in a world boss fight, specially in Tier 3 & 4. How can this be addressed?

  • @exisfohdr3904

    @exisfohdr3904

    Жыл бұрын

    Not exactly true. Other classes can still contribute significant damage. Necro for example, slows and makes enemies vulnerable 100% of the time. This frees up any skill you may have been running for vulnerability. Necro also brings debuff damage mitigation with curse. Possibly allowing you to drop a defensive skill for something more offensive.

  • @metalniro1
    @metalniro1 Жыл бұрын

    bruh im gonna have to watch this shit like 5 times. water on a ducks back🤣

  • @horus666tube
    @horus666tube Жыл бұрын

    imho its pretty bad that berserking just is one of thousand additive dmg modifiers imho ... a class defining ability shouldnt work like that

  • @mcteags
    @mcteags Жыл бұрын

    So glyph choices really just come down to crit damage and vulnerability damage plus whatever else gives you the highest non-conditional additive damage numbers? That seems kind of boring…

  • @nathanaultman7465
    @nathanaultman7465 Жыл бұрын

    Omg. Thank you Northwar. I look forward to seeing your test results of Druid farting in wearbear form. 🤣

  • @cdave2006
    @cdave2006 Жыл бұрын

    I think it's better in the end, people will have been forced to go for weird multiplayers, instead it's just all the same except vulnerable

  • @sean78745
    @sean78745 Жыл бұрын

    So every BiS item will have main stat, attack speed, cc and crit damage. Diablo 3.5

  • @exisfohdr3904

    @exisfohdr3904

    Жыл бұрын

    No, it will also include vulnerable damage.

  • @MisterMenPlays
    @MisterMenPlays Жыл бұрын

    potion healing is very valuable in PvP where cooldown of potions are higher.

  • @thetruestking2767
    @thetruestking2767 Жыл бұрын

    Can you go over PvP. Rob2628 hit 7 billion. Does this mean that PvP will be nothing but ranged classes. And the first to land will win. 99% of 7 billion is 6.9 billion and some change. Leaving 70 million leftover. Players only have 10k health at most at level 100. Are we missing something?

  • @exisfohdr3904

    @exisfohdr3904

    Жыл бұрын

    Nope, you're not missing anything. PvP will be one shots at endgame.

  • @bos7522
    @bos7522 Жыл бұрын

    This discovery killed some of the hype for me. I liked the other version of it much better, it gave the game so much more depth and diversity, not wanting to invest too much into a single stat and finding the right balance to maximize ur multipliers across the buckets... So disappointing

  • @mavor101

    @mavor101

    Жыл бұрын

    It still has a few "buckets" though yea there are still some thing like vulnerable forcing some specific glyph/paragon board choices unfortunately. Also "crit damage" sitting all alone and being locked to some very specific things depending on the class. :(

  • @Ragnar0321
    @Ragnar0321 Жыл бұрын

    Why can’t blizzard just release the information? Are this kind of stuff usually kept secret??

  • @exisfohdr3904

    @exisfohdr3904

    Жыл бұрын

    This kind of stuff is part of the experience: learning what does what on your own.

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