Great video. I might do a video on this someday because I made a similar deep dive for where I live in the mountains of Southern California. Propane $45 per million BTUs, Electric Heat Pump $34/mBTUs, Wood $22/mBTUs. FYI, propane here is $4/gal. Electric US$0.35/KWh, Wood $400/cord. (no Natural Gas piped here). I also find it always important to explain to lay folks that while electric radiant heat is "100% efficient", heat pumps are 300-400% efficient. Confuses people and they think "100%" is somehow good...

Gotta note that all these costs vary widely by location and over time. Some states have high electricity prices (e.g. California, or Texas in a cold snap). Gas prices also vary and they're subject to shocks (such as the war in Ukraine, or again a Texas cold snap). You should run the numbers in your location, considering your climate. Electric heat is likely to have more stable prices. And as other commenters have noted, a mini-split heat pump is far more efficient than the options presented here.

Thank you for the detailed report!!

Wow! Quite the study with hard data! I’m impressed! I’ve actually gotten in the habit of using a portable electric heater along with sheets of ply to essentially create a kiln in my shop so it’s both drying whatever I might need to place in there and venting heat into my shop. It’s a trick I learned from Adam Savage.

@WoodcraftBySuman

2 жыл бұрын

Love that trick! How much wood have you been drying that way per batch?

Another vote for mini-split AC/heat pump. Heats in the winter, cools in the summer. Much cheaper around here than natural gas too. You can even buy a DIY kit and install it yourself.

@gcanzano36

8 ай бұрын

Mini splits are an absolute nightmare in any kind of dusty environment

My minisplit is 36000 btu. And it cools too. Electric heaters are efficient in theory, but the more expensive to use.

Been looking forward to this for while! Great info!

@WoodcraftBySuman

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks so much! Glad you liked the info. I'm gonna do something with less graphics next time. lol. takes too long

I just installed 20 feet of infrared tube burning natural gas on my 12 foot ceiling, 48x30 pole barn shop. It's 50k btu, half the size if my suspended 100k btu heater. Super quiet, more efficient, heats the tools, floor, and people instead if the air. Then, the floor radiates heat back upward heating air. Heats the same way the sun heats Earth

Nice breakdown of the info, thanks Suman 🙂

@WoodcraftBySuman

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Shaun. Glad you liked it!

Nice work Suman! I wish we had an average of -1C lol, way the freak up here in Northern Canada NG is the way to go. I cheaped out and did electric though, small shop in my basement and it's working well.

@WoodcraftBySuman

2 жыл бұрын

Lol that was when I actually filmed the bit. Lately we've got -12 to -14C. Def taking longer for my shop to get up to temp. I used to have my last shop in the basement and I miss it in some ways lol

it hit -28 today that stove was stoked for sure, Great video Suman, love the edit, pace and great info Thanks, Sandy

@WoodcraftBySuman

2 жыл бұрын

Ahh you're the kind with the patience of a saint. haha. We're seeing some serious cold chill in the northeast as well. Brrr!

@mackenziemill

2 жыл бұрын

@@WoodcraftBySuman Stay warm my friend

My limitation is that the garage in my duplex style apartment only has one 15amp circuit so I use a Ryobi torpedo style propane heater that can run on either a battery or plugged into the wall. It does a really good job of heating the 2 car garage on it’s lowest setting and I actually need to periodically turn it off because it gets too warm to work comfortably. I can vent it by disconnecting the garage opener and putting something 1”-2” like a 2x4 under the door so it can’t close all the way. Also just got a carbon monoxide alarm for the garage.

@WoodcraftBySuman

6 ай бұрын

Yup- unfortunately you gotta make the best of what you have to work with. Good call on having a sensor to check bc that’s incredibly important. Cheers!

Great video topic and coverage. Radiant floors is the dream. Gas is most common I have seen in Minnesota.

@WoodcraftBySuman

2 жыл бұрын

Oh how I wish I could build a shop from scratch. I'd def do radiant floor heating! Heck, given the cost difference, I'll even take a gas line. haha. I think it would've cost me about $8-12k to run a line to my shop due to logistics and concrete being in the way.

@FearsomeWarrior

2 жыл бұрын

@@WoodcraftBySuman I had to chop and hack my way through a lot of drywall and struggle for days to get the line through the long wall of my three car garage but I got it. I put it in but didn't connect. Then paid the guy to connect everything. Then I left the walls a disaster for a year.

3:57 Hey Suman, great video, thank you. While it’s true that incomplete combustion of propane can produce carbon monoxide, as long as there is adequate oxygen present the combustion process produces only CO2 and water vapor (and heat). My propane heater has an auto shutoff feature when ambient oxygen levels get too low. This has only triggered twice while using it in my garage, and coupled with a CO detector, which has never alerted, I feel it’s fairly safe. But, as you stated, there is still a fire risk, so I only use mine to pre-heat the garage and turn it off before I make sawdust. Still, not the best heating option, but it’s worked for me until I can justify the upfront costs of something more permanent, hopefully a mini-split. Another downside you didn’t mention is the water vapor. We want the moisture content of our wood to stabilize before using it, so adding a lot of humidity to your shop isn’t the best idea. Running my propane heater for and hour or two can push my shop’s humidity from 40% to 50% or 60% in just a couple hours. Thanks again for your videos, they are top notch!

Nice video man keep it up

@WoodcraftBySuman

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you so much! Really appreciate the kind words.

Thanks, you just confirmed my decision to add duct work to my garage shop when building my house vs. a mini-split system. Only drawback to the duct system is, by building code I'm not allowed to put a return in the shop because it's a "garage" (I elected to put a garage door on it vs. French doors). My work around for this was pretty simple. I had the HVAC contractor frame up a return in the ceiling and leave all the return ducting materials along with cutting the hole in the main return line and then putting the cut out back in and taping it over. The workshop is also completely insulated. Once my final occupancy home inspection is done I'll cut out the sheetrock in the ceiling, install the return duct (complete with a filter) and heat and cool my shop. The house is our retirement home, so we don't plan on selling it to anyone and there isn't any risk of carbon monoxide gas getting into the house because the woodworking shop is a separate room from the garage. The workshop is also completely insulated. I

@WoodcraftBySuman

9 ай бұрын

That's great! I hope it works out well for ya. Setting up a new shop is always such an exciting time.

Agree 100%. Gas heater all the way.

Great tips! Thinking about a mini split for my garage shop, but it is definitely an expensive opinion. For now, I have a cheap natural gas unvented wall heater for warmth, and a garage door to open when it's hot.

@WoodcraftBySuman

2 жыл бұрын

Soooo after I posted the video, buddy of mine pointed out that mini splits BTUs are not comparable to electric heating BTUs. Apparently they can put out more heat than their BTU ratings would rather indicate. This is why I shouldn't have smart friends. But in such a case, a mini-split might be an even better option for both heating and cooling.

@MakewithJake

2 жыл бұрын

@@WoodcraftBySuman Smart friends are the worst! But yes, I was kinda wondering about that. I will have to continue doing more research!

@rickbaier706

11 ай бұрын

I have a 12,000 BTU mini split in my garage/shop (23 x 40 ft and 13 ft ceiling). Walls and ceiling insulated to R30 and 1" rigid foam insulation on the segmented garage doors. The 12,000 BTU mini-sp[lit does a fantastic job, taking less than 30 minutes to heat or cool the entire space. I previously tried a 12,000 BTU window A/C for cooling and it barely made any headway even after running on high all day long. I don't really understand why there is such a tremendous difference between the 2 different systems, but my suspicion is that window A/C units are rated with highly inflated BTU scales. In our environment, cooling in the summer is critical and the heating in winter is less important, but still a nice addition. The one drawback to mini splits that I can see is that they loose heating effectiveness in really cold weather, becoming almost useless below 5 deg F.

Heck yeah. The shop gets cold in the winter. Great ideas!!! Is there a great heating and cooling all in one solution?

@WoodcraftBySuman

2 жыл бұрын

Yup - Mini Splits are your best bet for an all-in-one solution. Expensive up front but definitely worth looking into.

We put a mini-split in our shop after years of trying other solutions that were just so-so. Yeah, it cost more than the solution here but we have heat, AC, and dehumidification. The shop is 420 sq/ft with an 11-foot ceiling. I had to add a ceiling fan for the winter to bring the hot air down from that high ceiling. We love it.

@WoodcraftBySuman

8 ай бұрын

How big is the mini split? I’ve been considering it as an option.

@KRWoodworks

8 ай бұрын

@@WoodcraftBySuman This is my woodworking channel. I posted that form my irplane channel. The one we have is a Mitsubishi 15,000 BTU 21.6 SEER unit pst number msz-gl-15na. It's an old unit and is discontinued and has been superseded with a newer unit. I did a video years ago about what led me to the decision and the install. I can't post a link but this is the video code, pgD5rdQkpOs The title is "Let's add some comfort to the shop". Forgive the old camera.

Good speaking Suman 👍

@WoodcraftBySuman

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you

The higher end mini splits from Mitsubishi, Fujitsu, Panasonic and Daikin are far more efficient at creating heating BTUs than any gas-fired overhead unit.They do a lot longer to get a space up to temperature when starting up from cold though.

@WoodcraftBySuman

10 ай бұрын

Yea it seems like I did not fully understand efficiencies of mini splits. Now I want one in my shop 😂

@peter_kelly

10 ай бұрын

@@WoodcraftBySuman Matthias Wandel did a deep dive into mini-split efficiency last February: kzread.info/dash/bejne/mKx507iumavOfZM.html

For me, there is only one good option: An air-to-air heat pump. Nothing is burning, the heat is instant and cheaper than natural gas.

Never have I seen a video use the word "ubiquitous" so well.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Shivering in a garage is always an option ))) i am considering portable ac units that do both - heating and cooling, but concerned about their power. Easiest install though.

@kz.irudimen

2 жыл бұрын

The problem is not just dealing with the cold, it's also that the cold will prevent wood glue from working properly. You can't tell your glue to just suck it up lol

@GeometryBuild

2 жыл бұрын

@@kz.irudimen yeah, true!

@WoodcraftBySuman

2 жыл бұрын

I've kept an old jug of glue in the shop going through the heating and cooling cycle. I wonder if it will still work in the summertime. haha

@GeometryBuild

2 жыл бұрын

@@WoodcraftBySuman it should! Lol! Let us know!

@kz.irudimen

2 жыл бұрын

@@WoodcraftBySuman I haven't had any issues doing that so far but the weather doesn't really get extreme where I am, it rarely gets below 0°C and when it does it never lasts.

why not just use old rags soaked in rubio to start a fire?

@WoodcraftBySuman

Жыл бұрын

I hear it’s a great conversation starter.

Can I just run the fan on the gas heater for summertime

I have a small oil-filled electric room heater I bought used for $30. I set it to 67F all winter. In central California it works fine to keep the chill away in my two-car, uninsulated garage. Even when the outside temperature is at the freezing mark, it keeps the garage above 60F. My portable A/C also has a heater, so that helps go from low 60s to 68F when I'm working in the garage on a cold day. The most important benefit of keeping the garage shop warm-ish is preventing condensation (and rust) off your metal tools. Worth the $30/mo to keep the heater on all winter, 24/7.

@WoodcraftBySuman

Жыл бұрын

That’s great! I wish the cost was as reasonable in colder parts of the country. I can’t justify keeping the shop warm 24/7 when I’m in there 2-3days a week max.

@PeterC3400

Жыл бұрын

@@WoodcraftBySuman Agreed. California is fairly mild. It's 27F this morning, but we don't have that many days like this per year. My goal, mostly is just to stay above 60F so the tools don't rust from the daily cooling-then-warming cycles. Great content on your channel so far. Keep at it! Maybe reach out to do joint projects with some of the long-time KZread woodworkers to gain more exposure and subs. You deserve it.

If by any chance you're in the Minneapolis, MN metro I own an insulation company*. I could make you one heck of a deal for insulating the attic for some shout outs! *first company listed on Centerpoint and Xcel Energy's preferred provider lists.

Why do people always insulate their walls before the roof? Heat rises, therefore all the heat escapes thru the roof so all the wall insulation is useless. Now if the roof keeps the heat in, thats when the walls can actually do their job.

@WoodcraftBySuman

4 ай бұрын

You are absolutely correct. I was being lazy.