To those that say they could’ve made it out, clearly y’all didn’t pay attention to the narrative or the words uttered by the characters. As far as we know, they were doomed. To say otherwise is speculation. Facts. Not feelings, ladies and gents. Leave video suggestions in the comments!

@Coid

2 ай бұрын

To be fair, most of the fan discussions that have any real potential to be interesting involve some amount of speculation.

@LethalByChoice

2 ай бұрын

Dude what you said is speculation. Everything behind the "was Shane right?" question is speculation. There are no facts. It's viewer interpretation. None of the characters agree that Otis should have died. Shane only said it had to be done so Rick and the group didn't think he was some kind of killer. You're just wrong. Shane and Otis could have gotten away, the walkers weren't fast enough to catch up to them. Dunno where you get the impression that it had to be done.

@TheRealCaptainGold

2 ай бұрын

@@LethalByChoice 1. " There are no facts. It's viewer interpretation." Morally sure. But there are certainly facts about the incident. What a silly remark. 2. "None of the characters agree that Otis should have died." I thought you said we can't take their words seriously, in a previous comment? You're out here throwing special-pleading fallacies around like they grow on trees. Those survivors weren't there with Otis and Shane. Nor would their disagreement mean they are right (and it wouldn't mean they're wrong either). 3. "Shane only said it had to be done so Rick and the group didn't think he was some kind of killer." Okay? 4. "You're just wrong." But you just said there weren't any facts?... So, how could I be wrong? 5. "Shane and Otis could have gotten away, the walkers weren't fast enough to catch up to them. Dunno where you get the impression that it had to be done." Depends on how far away the car was. If you've ever done real physical labor and had to work with a leg injury, you'd know hiking with heavy ass medical bags filled with tanks would weigh heavy on the legs. Shane could barely walk. Otis was also tripping over. Each step they took, they slowed down (have you seen season 2? those walkers ain't slow). They were cooked my guy. Regardless of that fact,this is also *FICTION*. Suspension of disbelief is part of it. The writers wanted this moral dilemma to happen. If they could just get away, it would dampen the effect of Shane's act. Unless you can provide some actual information, aside from real speculation, you should probably resist the urge to talk with authority.

@thegifting267

2 ай бұрын

Wouldn’t really say it’s speculation considering zombies are extremely slow. The whole situation was badly written too.

@TheRealCaptainGold

2 ай бұрын

It’s speculation. The walkers were catching up to a running Shane earlier in the episode. Season 1 & 2 walkers were on crack. I’ll never forget how one used a rock to break a glass door in season 1 or how one literally vaulted over a fence in the same season. lol But it’s speculation to assume they could have made it. People arguing that have probably never tried to hike multiple blocks with heavy bags while limping on an injured leg. Those bags had heavy medical equipment too, not just gauze and masks lol And this ain’t city blocks either - they’re out in the country. That truck was probably a good half mile or more away. Shane and Otis were limping, tripping, clearly slowing down, while the walkers weren’t slowing down at all. They were definitely cooked and there wasn’t a dumpster to save them. I’ll agree though, poorly directed scene.

his one major flaw was his obsessing over Lori

@st4rgazings470

2 ай бұрын

bro thought he was joe goldberg 😭

@simunator

2 ай бұрын

bitches are trix. if he never violated bros over hoes, he would've been a G and a cool uncle character

@McCrapweasel

2 ай бұрын

Lori was stank ass trash.

@GhostPanther_X

2 ай бұрын

@@st4rgazings470😂😂

@citizenvulpes4562

2 ай бұрын

That's what I'm saying!!! If the dude just accepted that Lori wasn't his then he'd have been alive for most of the show.

Shane was just ahead of the curve. In the end, everyone became like him.

@user-wk3rd7yb2m

2 ай бұрын

Basic

@grantgordon6268

2 ай бұрын

I don’t remember any of the main group trying to rape someone lol. Or setting up a trap to kill one of their own because they wanted to be them

@michaelperkins7070

2 ай бұрын

that’s what i’ve been syaing

@mexagodtvg8937

2 ай бұрын

Deadass

@CoriAnder82

2 ай бұрын

Damn, you're right

Shane adapted so fast that everybody thought he was crazy, now everyone's like this in The Walking Dead💯💯💯.🙏🏽🩸🦅🦅🏟️

@ApocalypticGamingYT

2 ай бұрын

Right?? Rick is like 10 times worse than Shane ever was 😂

@NZealandese

2 ай бұрын

​@@ApocalypticGamingYT Rick would never sacrifice his survivors and always find a way for all to survive. In that situation where if Rick was with Otis instead of Shane, Rick would've distracted the walkers instead of sacrifice one or the other. Shane was just bred with pure jealousy after Rick joined the group. He always downplayed his decisions(which he was right to an extent), but Rick always had the Plot Armor and 'Talk no jutsu' to get over any obstacle

@YoitsGoose

2 ай бұрын

@@NZealandese honestly, if he didn't envy Rick's position, they would've been a super duo! I'm sad I think about what ifs so much because Shane was such a complex character. He could've been so much more. He just couldn't overcome his flaws, though his mindset was obviously right in terms of the world being the way it was.

@Bob.isthebestxp

2 ай бұрын

Even Rick is just like him in his spin off

@HungrySolarSystem-BB25-09Alpha

2 ай бұрын

He still learned the right way to kill the dead from rick Not all the time were guns needed made shane more deadly till.....

He was right when he said rick couldn't keep lori and carl safe

@FDR_progressive_liberal

2 ай бұрын

But really, nobody could.

@Blargy2inch

2 ай бұрын

@@FDR_progressive_liberal Shane would beg to differ

@FDR_progressive_liberal

2 ай бұрын

@@Blargy2inch And yet Shane couldn't keep himself alive.

@TheLoneLander

2 ай бұрын

@@FDR_progressive_liberalfact

@Blargy2inch

2 ай бұрын

@@FDR_progressive_liberalwell he did commit suicide by cop so to speak. But that's because he couldn't live in a world where he killed his best friend and stole his family

Jon bernthal's walking dead character is one of the reasons why i like his acting skills! "Let me tell you something..." Always got me! More love captain gold!

@TheRealCaptainGold

2 ай бұрын

Lemme ask ya somethin’ **Rubs Bald Head**

@GOREDWINGS96

2 ай бұрын

Jon Bernthal actually says "Let me tell ya something" in almost every movie role he has, not just TWD. Look it up 😆

@jarrettpeters6225

2 ай бұрын

He said it in the punisher I just laughed my ass off

@TheRealCaptainGold

2 ай бұрын

@@GOREDWINGS96He even did it in a video game. lol

@ProdMisguided

2 ай бұрын

​@@GOREDWINGS96he plays the same role in everything lol

I loved Shane and he pissed me off that he wouldn't just move on from Lori

@DeadX2

2 ай бұрын

He tried to but Lori manipulated rick and Shane into fighting and Lori lured him back in

@ipodsandtea8981

2 ай бұрын

@@DeadX2lori definitely pitted shane and rick against each other, but she didn't intentionally lure shane back in. he tried to rape her in season 1. that wasn't her fault

@Mouchoo

2 ай бұрын

​@@DeadX2 THIS. every fuckin people acting like Shane was the vilain.. while *Lori was.* This bitch is the reason Rick had to kill his best friend

@shootingreal5945

2 ай бұрын

Yeah..him simping for Lori was cringe..she wasn't wroth all that.

@randywilliams3044

2 ай бұрын

Lori definitely played her part in keeping him hanging on. Same time, my man should have been clapping Andrea's cheeks after every shooting session 🤣🤣

Don’t come back with a dead man’s gun lol

@stevedenis8292

2 ай бұрын

The other beach boys song.

@EliteGrinderQV

Ай бұрын

It was Rick’s gun. Rick gave his gun to Otis

Shane broke the bro code.

@chancebrown98

2 ай бұрын

He thought rick was dead. Thats a pass

@Hedge_Knight_Gaming

2 ай бұрын

@@chancebrown98But he still kept trying after he found out otherwise.

@Fuegoaries

Ай бұрын

@@chancebrown98that does not matter he coulda gone for any girl but ya bro wife💀 it jus make it look like bro had a vendetta since the beginning lmao

@aquaticsplashes

Ай бұрын

@@chancebrown98 that don't make it cool, it was still only like a year barely of separation after death too soon

@JaymeeCole

Ай бұрын

@@chancebrown98 he never even told Rick about it how is that a pass?

Shane died for the group’s naivety and refusal to adapt. His death meant people dying and the survivors being forced to learn to make difficult choices to keep living and sort it out later.

@williamflowers9435

2 ай бұрын

They would have been so much stronger if Shane was still with them.. idk how he preferred Lori over Andrea

@argyllrose4569

2 ай бұрын

Shane died because he tried to lure Rick out to steal his wife and kid

@mewlogyakajace7018

2 ай бұрын

No shane died because he chose to die. He was definitely right but him killing the kid and attacking rick were his choices.

@IamProcool

2 ай бұрын

@@williamflowers9435lori was pregnant with Shanes sperm and rick n’ Lori even said it was theirs only no matter what not shane’s

Shane was a goated character, it’s not his fault he adapted quicker than everyone else

@matt59fire

2 ай бұрын

But he killed an innocent guy

@honinakecheta601

2 ай бұрын

@@matt59fire so?

@matt59fire

2 ай бұрын

@@honinakecheta601 You aren't bright

@honinakecheta601

2 ай бұрын

@@matt59fire and you aren’t very interesting.

@matt59fire

2 ай бұрын

@@honinakecheta601 Idc

"Middle of the fucking night" didn't expect that lol

@malachithekiller3117

2 ай бұрын

I literally read this comment as he said it😂

@itsjustjodyy

2 ай бұрын

same LOLLLL @@malachithekiller3117

@RandoManFPV

2 ай бұрын

Haha for real I almost missed it 😂

@tadeob_

Ай бұрын

thought I misheard haha

@tadeob_

Ай бұрын

"out in the fucking dark" 😂😂 2:50

Otis’ death was tragic but necessary to save Carl. Season 2 was filled with tragic deaths, Otis, Sophia, Dale, and then Shane who saw 3 people he cared about die, heck he was responsible for Otis’ death and he cared for Sophia and even Dale who he often didn’t get along with. Shane couldn’t handle the apocalypse and the circumstances of it so unfortunately he went insane and his mental state deteriorated until he made his final mistake of trying to kill Rick.

@Michael_Tigers98

2 ай бұрын

Shane only know Otis like 1 day maybe 2 not enough to care for someone the crazy he was he sure care just for himself he didn’t give to rat about Dale, Sophia , Otis , everyone in the group specially Carl and Lori only care about getting laid by his so called best friend Wife #1 one rule DON’T sleep with u’r best friends/family ex lover or even if u’r think or know u’r friends/family dead and they still together before they are gone you still DON’T do it cross the line

@Sophia_P999

2 ай бұрын

@@Michael_Tigers98 He did care, sure he became a villain and somewhat of a monster, but he cared for others in the group, he didn’t want to let Otis die and Otis had his back multiple times during the mission at the school. Shane was visibly hurt when seeing Sophia walk out of the barn as a Walker, he cared for her and didn’t want it to be true, he couldn’t get himself to out her down and had to look away. Shane was saddened by Dale’s death as well and wished that he could be saved. Shane took out his anger on Walkers the next day after Dale’s passing. Shane was a bit heartless and very cruel, but he cared for his group and he didn’t want to lose anyone, he justified Otis’ death but he couldn’t get over what he’d done, he lost his sanity the more death he saw and that’s just it. Sure he was obsessed with Lori and he wanted to be Carl’s father and he wanted to be the Dad to his unborn child… but Shane also cared for the group after that and he still cared for Rick and didn’t want to kill him but he felt like he didn’t have a choice, the only way Lori and Carl could survive in his mind is if he was there to protect them and Rick was dead. Rick indirectly caused Sophia to go missing and die, Carl to get shot, and Dale’s death due to not watching over Carl. Shane had his moments of selfishness over Lori but he cared for the safety of others not just to fulfill his selfish desires. Also Shane did have moments in Season 1 that hinted at his villain arc in Season 2 like when he pointed his gun at Rick and held him in his sights and when he lost it at the CDC attacking Lori and then destroying several computers and almost killing Dr. Jenner. Shane was a complex character and your analysis of him is too simple to fully grasp his full story.

@bananaboy8416

2 ай бұрын

Completely disagree. He never went insane or deteriorated at all, he just adapted to the new world far faster than anyone else around him and they ostracized him for it. He was the only one not trying to cling to the old ways. He handled it extremely well in my opinion. Only reason he died was for drama and content because it is a tv show after all.

@phyzyc6765

2 ай бұрын

shane wanted rick to kill him.

@terejosh13

2 ай бұрын

​@Sophia_P999 one week in huh how's youtube been for you?

the only thing shane did that was stupid is to not get the bag off of otis BEFORE he shot him. the struggle to get it off of him was a waste of time and energy. but he did what had to be done.

@PartyNearTheDoorKBR

2 ай бұрын

the struggle showed how far back the walkers were, i truly don't understand what was stopping them from pushing forward. is there something i was missing?

@jaredwilliams2357

2 ай бұрын

⁠@@PartyNearTheDoorKBRThey were both limping from injury and exhaustion with them also mentioning the truck was blocks away still. Neither of them would have been able to outpace the horde long enough

@tomjmj18

2 ай бұрын

I feel like the only mistake Shane made was not shooting Otis in the head, killing him instantly. Otis had to endure so much unnecessary pain and eventually become a walker himself. He could've had a painless death that way and the struggle for Shane to get the bag off was way less hard because Otis couldn't struggle back.

@seandent3732

2 ай бұрын

@@tomjmj18 he did that intentionally to draw all the walkers toward him, his screams of agony bought Shane time to limp away. His mistake was his lie about Otis sacrificing himself , yet he came back with his gun. Like Darryl said, he was made the moment “he came back with a dead man’s gun, what does that tell you?”

@harrypottah8889

2 ай бұрын

@@seandent3732regardless if he mercy killed him or not, the horde would have probably stopped at Otis and ignored Shane.

I don't see Shane as the villain imo, but more of an anti-hero almost. He was a character who knew that you'd have to do evil acts, in order to achieve good results/things. Carl surviving? Take out Otis and hopefully buy enough time to escape with the supplies to get them back to the farm for Hershel to perform the surgery. The group searching for Sophia after Daryl almost dies? Call it off and prevent the risk of losing another member. The group going back for Merle? Left the entire camp weakened with a lack of ammo. Killing Randall? He knew Beth, he was a hostile individual originally and was only saved out of mercy and only wants what best for himself, not the group. The walkers in the barn? Insanely stupid, if that barn happens to break for whatever reason, gets opened by a random scavenging survivor, it's over for the group as they sleep during the night He was an extremely interesting and amazing character to have in the show. It's a shame Shane died, and Lori was clearly the problem originally between him and Rick, however if they kept Shane alive, I feel like his character would've even saved the show in its later seasons

@TheLoneLander

2 ай бұрын

Lmao Shane was in no way a hero bro.

@Joe_Brown99

2 ай бұрын

Shane was willing to sacrifice everyone except himself

@TheLoneLander

2 ай бұрын

@@Joe_Brown99 exactly

@___XY____________0

2 ай бұрын

@@TheLoneLanderI mean if he didn’t shoot Otis, Carl would’ve died

@TheLoneLander

2 ай бұрын

@@___XY____________0 fair enough, but who's to say Carl wouldn't have died sooner than he did had Shane lived and Rick died. Also the Palestine bs is off putting.

Shane had offered himself as the sacrifice to give Carl a chance to live and avoid the "Lose, Lose, Lose" scenario, but Otis refused. So, in a strictly cold logical calculation that gives Carl a chance to live, Otis signed his own death warrant with that refusal and had to go to save Carl. Supplies to save Carl was THE MISSION. Shane fulfilled that mission, sacrificing a part of his humanity in doing so.

@alex-sm6zh

2 ай бұрын

Exactly my thought too. He likely just knew that Otis would keep refusing to go without Shane, thus Shane had to rethink the situation and made the call to shoot Otis instead, ensuring that Carl gets the meds and they don’t both end up dead. It was a decision he didn’t take lightly (the shaving/showering clearly showed his disgust towards himself). Shane’s odds of survival were also better due to his physique and confidence to think quick on his feet.

Shane was def the first one to grow and realized how things are the only mistake was he adapt and changed at the wrong time and was obsessed with Lori. he already sacrificed Otis for meds, and was constantly at odds with half the group with how hardcore he is making him seemed crazy, and trying to replace rick ended him.

The fact that Shane was willing to sacrifice himself cos he knew only 1 of them could get out, he had already seen the only brilliant move was a sacrifice, and since Otis wasn't willing to accept the gambit, he had to. Otis was dead either way he played. Shane could survive with how he played. Shane was the better player. Shane was a grandmaster, and Rick was his apprentice, the deleted scene of Better Angels proved this, he was Bobby Fischer in this shit and went insane because no one else could see or accept how the game should be played. He'd decided the only winning move was not to play. Rick becomes way more ruthless than Shane ever was but we never think he's the villain, that's the beauty of The Walking Dead.

@treswolves5512

2 ай бұрын

Shane wasn't a grandmaster. I think he was better suited to the new world, at least more than most in the beginning. But he couldn't handle it in the end. I think most agree that he was right to sacrifice Otis in that moment, but he couldn't put Sophia down so Rick did. I think the importance of that scene shows how ultimately, Rick was always better suited to the world than Shane was. He was a good player, but he ultimately failed to fully adapt in the end.

@JaxonRabbit

2 ай бұрын

@@treswolves5512 While I agree with you mostly just learn the history of Bobby Fischer and you'll understand the analogy better. He was the greatest player ever but he was so maddened(literally) by the way the chess world was going he became a schizo recluse rather than be who he could have been.

@gifi4

22 күн бұрын

Rick becomes ruthless specifically when threatened or to prevent being attacked. If it was up to Shane, he would have kicked Hershell out of his farm and locked him away (Possibly in the barn before we even knew about the walkers in there). There's a MASSIVE difference. Rick moving forward has that mentality of "We'll take this place if we have to", but only if we have to, not because it'd be better than what we've got now - Which is what Shane wanted.

Bro. The hit markers 😂

I disagree. They had 45 seconds on the zombies from when Shane stopped to apologize until they got to Otis. This fight distracted some of the walkers for sure, but there are more walkers than those that swarmed Otis. The fight decreased how much reserves Shane had remaining. The walkers that will be after him are a similar distance to Shane, so the sacrifice didn't provide any benefit to him. He just had less reserves and more weight to carry. A better option would be to lose some weight or keep trudging along. If it truly was the only option, your assessment would be correct. That being said, with the stress of the situation and the stakes, I don't fault him for reaching this conclusion, regardless of if I disagree with the necessity.

@JimmyD0djer

2 ай бұрын

There's a cut scene where Shane is running from a crowd of walkers, and even in good physical condition, he barely managed to escape, and here Shane is carrying heavy bags, and he's limping, Shane just had experience in that situation.

@DeadX2

2 ай бұрын

It did lol also it’s. A tv show ofc there gonna have a moment of fighting

@gifi4

22 күн бұрын

What? How do you even think that? The sacrifice provided a MASSIVE benefit. Otis' screaming alone would draw in walkers that would have instead ended up chasing Shane.

@derrekingledue3138

21 күн бұрын

​@@gifi4 I believe that further proves my point. The screams would also lure in unsuspecting walkers that would be in Shane's path. But I will answer why I thought this based on my memory of a month ago. Because I counted the seconds, based it upon where they were in relation to each other, both when they shot was fired until the end of the scene. There is a finite amount of walkers that would be distracted. Less for sure, but some did continue to pursue. Shane lost a lot of stamina in the scuffle while trying to pull the supplies from Otis. This would leave him less able to fight off any more incoming walkers, which would be more likely to occur from Otis' screams.

Shane got backed into a corner where he knew he needed to leave the group or die. The group was doomed because they wouldn't keep up with reality. Hell did come with the herd of walkers destroying the farm opposed to Randall's group invading.

Shane was wrong to go with Otis into the FEMA trailer. He should have used the truck's lights and horn to draw the Walkers away while Otis went in alone to gather equipment. Then gone back to pick him up. But plot holes are a staple of zombie shows.

@Michael_Tigers98

2 ай бұрын

That what I’m thinking like both of them didn’t got to go in the same time only one and the other stay to distract them and get them away from the school like really if they would of do that Otis would have live a bit longer besides that even if he didn’t kill Otis there’s are things that I didn’t like Shane doing and every one thinks he like hero or something yeah he some good but overall he is one of the TWD Villains

@thegifting267

2 ай бұрын

That whole situation was so badly written. There was an obviously better play, but the writers didn’t notice.

@DeadX2

2 ай бұрын

Couldn’t do that lol also too far away that had to happen

@treswolves5512

2 ай бұрын

I think it's pretty realistic honestly. I don't think at that point in the show the group had adapted to the point where they were confident with pulling a group away from where they needed to go. Stealth was always their first instinct. They became much more confident after their first winter between seasons 2 and 3.

@st4rgazings470

2 ай бұрын

@@thegifting267maybe it was intentionally written like that tho, to show the characters don’t always think outside the box, just a thought tho u could be right abt it being poorly written

He was also right about Randal. Rick wanted to save Randal and also release him into the world again knowing almost nothing about what Randal knew or was capable of. Shane knew that Randal traveled with people who tried to kill Rick and that Randal himself shot at Rick. There's no doubt in my mind that Shane was right over Rick with the Randal situation. There is however a flip side. Randal was a kid, he more than likely just got stuck with and listened to the group he was with out of fear of being alone. And when he was with Rick and his group he realized that he was with better people and so he probably would have been a better version of himself. Like when he helped Rick save Shane from the school bus. They should have just kept an eye on him and made him prove himself an ally overtime. But that also would have been risky for sure. Killing him would have ensured that he wasn't ever going to be a problem to the safety of the group. Shane had zero faith in Rick's ability to discern what was right for the group

@anneb889

2 ай бұрын

Randall was from the area, went to the same school as Maggie and Beth….they could have brought him in as part of the group. They eventually brought in Karen and the others from the governors town, and Tara was with the governor and she became part of the group. I can justify what Shane did to Otis more than Randall. The problem with the Otis incident….is it changed Shane after that. Shane seemed to really lose himself after killing Otis. Maybe it would have been an interesting arc to see if he could come back from that…..like Carol after she killed Karen and Dave, but the Rick, Shane, Lori triangle wasn’t going to work.

@ashvsthestupiddead.7436

2 ай бұрын

honestly randal had to go i mean there is a line implying that his group committed grape while he talked to daryl

@TheRealCaptainGold

2 ай бұрын

According to the wiki, Randall was 20 years old. He wasn’t no kid. Old enough to be tried as an adult.

@paranoiavandroid

2 ай бұрын

​@TheRealCaptainGold you must be incredibly young tbh. 20 is so so young. youre brain still needs half a decade of developing by that point even more so if you arent neurotypical. yeah, hes an adult. but for anyone who isnt a teenager, hes a kid who it is pretty likely is just trying to survive with the only group available to him.

@brittanylewandowski6200

2 ай бұрын

@@TheRealCaptainGold 10 year olds are old enough to be tried as adults.

Shane adapted so fast that everybody looked at him and thought “WITCH!”

Judith’s dad goated

Ironically the shows bad writing and killing off of Carl proved Shane right more than he should have been. The comic is at least consistent in quality, and Carl doesn't just die.

@l.c.7955

2 ай бұрын

Carl died due to his own decision. Rick had nothing to do with it

@ryman1933

2 ай бұрын

@@l.c.7955 I mean, sure, I guess. Point still stands, he lost his wife and kid, the only two things he was supposed to protect. Besides, Carl in the comic is way too smart to ever do something dumb and get himself bit like he did in the show.

@joshswicegood3253

2 ай бұрын

@@ryman1933Lori didn’t die because of Rick she died because they cut her open to get the baby out. So in a sense Shane killed her because he was the one that got her pregnant.

@ryman1933

Ай бұрын

@@joshswicegood3253 Point still stands, Rick failed his one goal in the end.

@jsano2754

Ай бұрын

Rick was unable to protect his scandalous wife, and his dumb ass, weak son. Exactly what Shane predicted. Rick was always galavanting off somewhere to do some dumb shit. Instead of being present and holding down the fort, delegating tasks and rescues. He was always at the frontline covered in zombie guts and blood, hows that idiot not been infected 🤷🏾‍♂️ or got aids?! Shane saw right through Ricks weaknesses.

Shane is the embodiment of the whole new world.

Shane could have made it a headshot but then again if we’re being honest this is season 2 logic we’re talking about here

@TheRealCaptainGold

2 ай бұрын

I agree.

@DeadX2

2 ай бұрын

Prob wasn’t thinking in that moment

@UberTheWolf

2 ай бұрын

Otis staying there screaming drew more walkers towards him though, further guaranteeing Shane's escape.

@DeadX2

2 ай бұрын

@@UberTheWolf not rlly lol

@UberTheWolf

2 ай бұрын

@@DeadX2 Of course it did lol.

Shane gave lip service to the sacrifice play, but he could have pressed it to the point Otis had no choice (Setting the bag down and going back towards the horde, firing his gun to draw them to him, etc.). There would have been many ways to showcase the necessity of the sacrifice visually. If they had been surrounded or cutoff by a second horde, one sacrificing themselves to draw the attention away while the other hides would have been a much better option. Either that is a production oversight, or an intentional showcase of Shane losing it under the pressure by insisting a sacrifice was needed when it clearly wasn't. Hell, he even had time to wrestle with Otis for the bag and gun and still got away. What does the sacrifice then and there even really do? It would momentarily slow down the horde sure, but now Shane is lost, alone, injured, and carrying a lot of heavy equipment in an area that is still dangerous. I think Shane had already lost his sense for cooperation, and didn't realize they had as good, if not a better, chance of making it out by working together. His rationalization of "It was the only way" would be the way he coped with cracking under the pressure and acting irrationally, costing Otis his life. To use the chess analogy, Shane had stopped paying attention to which piece was covering what and only cared about protecting his Queen, choosing to sacrifice another piece when there was a move on the table that could have covered it without the sacrifice. Rick later makes the same mistake, thinking linearly about protecting the most important piece at the cost of others without realizing the possibility of cooperating to protect each other, before rediscovering it later in the series.

Shane's obsession with Lori was the only thing that held him back from being the perfect character imo.

@spikem5950

2 ай бұрын

Not exactly, the man's mental state was gone after killing Otis. He would've been dangerous and slipping over time whether or not Lori was being Lori. He wasn't as well-adjusted to the new world as people think, it was just the exterior.

@danielnunez6878

2 ай бұрын

@@spikem5950 Well man you're kind of right, but he was more adjusted to the new world than Rick, and let's be honest if Rick wasn't the main character almost every decision he made throughout the first two seasons would have led him to his and the group death.

They both were clearly under equipped for the mission and they thought it will be a walk in the park. Get in and get out. There's a reason why Rick handed his revolver to Otis. Also another hint that they are under equipped is when Otis enter the truck, placed his rifle between him and Shane. Shane looked at Otis and Otis was like,"It's the only one I got". Don't take my words. Okay? Otis seems to be the typical average hunter who doesn't keep too much ammo in hand. He might buy one box or maybe 2 boxes of ammo for his rifle and that box or boxes will last him for a few years or something. I got friends who are kind of like this. They hunt time to time. They might buy one box or 2 boxes for their rifle and the ammo will last them till next hunting season or a few more years. I guess we can assume that Otis rifle can only hold 4 rounds and maybe he only have a hand full of rounds inside his pocket or something.

@TheRealCaptainGold

2 ай бұрын

Under-equipped is the understatement of the year. And, on top of that, they had to beat the clock - as time was not on their side.

Shane was the only one who really understood what was going down. While everybody else was trying to hold onto their humanity, Shane was out there playing chess with the zombies. And, even though Shane sacrificing Otis was colder than my ex’s heart, but let’s face it, in a zombie apocalypse, it’s eat or be eaten, and Shane wasn’t about to be on the menu. Shane was like that one guy in the horror movie who actually knows how to survive. Forget about holding hands and singing Kumbaya; Shane was about making sure they weren’t all going to end up as a zombie snack. He might not have been the hero they wanted, but he was the hero they needed, if they didn’t want to end up as walking Happy Meals.

And the lines he delivered still iconic!

Let's say that Shane sacrified himself back at the supply run, do y'all really think that Otis's fatass would make it back in one piece?

@seanm8665

2 ай бұрын

Haha yeah man that is a good point. Shane saw too much too soon.

@gifi4

22 күн бұрын

Yes he would. Shane would be screaming, the noise would further attract the walkers, and Otis was capable of moving at a speed decent enough to make it to safety with that distraction in place.

@Helvigster

12 сағат бұрын

that would have looked really bad on Otis' part. I don't think the group would've let him live if that had happened. Otis returning without Shane, after he had already shot Carl, would have looked extremely suspicious to Rick. I severely doubt him and the rest of his group would've been okay with that. they would've thought that this fatass was purposely trying to kill his people and that would've broken off the agreement that Rick made with Hershel. even if Shane truly did sacrifice himself, I just can't see how the rest of the group would genuinely believe that from Otis

Otis looks like the drummer in a band I was in for a lot of years. Miss you Eddie, hope you're good.

He was right he was just ahead of the curve. He was wrong when he told Rick he couldn’t keep Lori or Carl safe cause no one can in that reality. I wish Shane lived in the show it would have been better

If Otis had better cardio, this never would have happened.

@spikem5950

2 ай бұрын

Shane was limping too.

@gifi4

22 күн бұрын

Funnily enough, there's an episode of House M.D where Otis plays a super fat man, something like 600 pounds. Poor bastard just needed to lose even more weight.

@Helvigster

12 сағат бұрын

should've leveled up his Cardio to Level 7 unfortunately (does anyone get the reference?)

It’s a dubious situation for sure. Otis didn’t mean to shoot Carl , Shane didn’t want to shoot Otis and even initially offered to be the one left behind but Otis refused to abandon Shane. There are scenarios where with more ammo or perhaps if Shane drew the walkers away from the fema trailer with Otis truck before doubling back to pick up Otis and the supplies, hell even a scenario where they only used one of the two flares found in the trunk of that cop car to misdirect the walkers a second time that results in both characters surviving , probably even preventing or delaying Shane’s antagonist arc but you don’t know what you don’t know. In any case it seems like Shane tried to exhaust every option before resorting to attacking Otis and leaving him for dead - it came off as a last ditch effort not something premeditated.Granted from that moment onward it’d be hard to trust a guy who you know could turn on you when the chips are down. At the end of the day sacrificing Otis was debatably the lesser evil that guaranteed carls survival at the cost of Otis life and a good portion of Shane’s humanity.

Love the chess analogy, never thoght of that before. This video open my eyes to a new perspective about the scene (wich I already had forgotten) and make the character and actions/motivations more deeper than I originally thoght. I love the tragic character arch of Shane. He dislike what he become and this extreme desition was a part to redeem himself for Lory and/or protect what he thoght was "his" family (Carl), for the greater good. Later, when he watches himself in the mirror he decide to shave his hair for the full transformation and get rid of the guilt. Just brillant storytelling. Love this kind of videos! you really make good points.

@TheRealCaptainGold

2 ай бұрын

Shane was definitely a tragic antagonist. Change a few aspects of the story and he would’ve lived past season 2.

@Ares99999

2 ай бұрын

@@TheRealCaptainGold But he didn't. Rick gutted him like a fish and Carl then put him down like a dog. 12 years ago out of universe, likely close to that in-universe. Heck, I only remember that character these days because people insist on making him a better man than he actually was. Thing is, Shane was unable to cope with the world, he went insane relatively quickly. That he was right about the world to a degree wasn't due to thinking it out, but just a fluke due to his frayed feelings. He was a great character while he lasted, but he was also a character who had reached his apex. His mental state clearly didn't allow for more growth. Only Andrea - who would never again become part of the main group - really liked him to a degree at this point. No matter what, he was never going to lead the group. Rick was backed by his wife and son (Carl would side with Rick at the end of the day), by Daryl, and by Hershel (and thus Maggie, Beth and Glenn would side with Rick as well). Now, maybe, if Shane had been able to quell his irrational hatred of Rick, he might have made it farther than this. But there was nothing to be done at the point Rick and Shane faced off one last time. Rick was absolutely right in reading Shane there: that even if he talked him down THIS time, Shane would try again. Shane had to go.

@TheRealCaptainGold

2 ай бұрын

@@Ares99999 I’m not disagreeing, per say. I basically said this in the video. He couldn’t live with killing Otis. He had the right mindset for short-term survival (before communities get established) but his mental state just wasn’t made for the new world. Rick, on the other hand, adopted what Shane understood about the world - while still being a better and more compassionate leader. And in a twist of irony, proved to Shane that he was better made to handle the new world than Shane himself. That said, in many ways - Shane did adapt quicker. His mental state just couldn’t keep up. (A mental state shattered by Otis and his inability to have Lori and Carl to himself). But that’s why a lot of fans like the character. In many ways he was ahead of the curve. But that doesn’t matter if you’re incapable of living with the new world emotionally. It’s one thing to know how to survive - actually surviving in and of itself is another ball park.

@Ares99999

2 ай бұрын

@@TheRealCaptainGold I don't think he was head of the curve in many ways aside from simple ruthlessness. And I don't think he truly 'adapted', rather I think he 'jumped' from relatively normal guy to utterly ruthless man very quickly. And being this ruthless and unlikable at this point worked more against him than for him. While Rick and Daryl, for example, took slower to get ruthless, it allowed them to process everything more fully, remaining rational (outside of short phases that ultimately never lasted) and in touch with their feelings. Both men recognize the brutality of this world while remaining aware that there's good and hope left. Shane... only saw the brutality by the end.

@TheRealCaptainGold

2 ай бұрын

@@Ares99999 I pretty much said that. He adapted too quickly and his mental state couldn’t handle it. It’s okay to admit he adapted faster. He was ahead of the curve in many ways. The story goes out of the way to paint parallels between Shane and Rick in future seasons. This isn’t without reason.

I always saw Shane as having an insanely high floor for the group, but also having the lowest metaphorical ceiling. He was way ahead of the rest of them, but if he was running things they would've been killed by the time they got to the prison, or especially the Saviors. Think about what happened to Glenn, and now imagine that with Shane's temper in the way instead of just Daryl's. He pushed Rick to understand why ruthlessness and cruelty mattered, but he also pushed way too hard. He wasn't diplomatic, he was a brutal, a wild dog. Someone you'd always want in your corner, but never as the one taking the lead.

better to be safe than sorry. maybe he wasn't right but he was creative to complete the mission (which would be ruined by some fatso otherwise). 8 mins of fact based universe

I dont think shane was right but if I was in his shoes I would of done the same

In the sense that Shane had gone to full kill or be killed mode way faster than Rick ever did yes he was right. In such world you do whatever to make sure you and those few close to you live and damn everyone else. Rick realized the same thing but way later. However what if things went different and Rick died and Shane became the number one man? I think the group would've missed some would be enemied and numerous would be allies and end up becoming villains themselves. Kill or rob anyone you see if you can and recruit those who are capable of same way of thinking.

This was a great overview! I wished it was longer!!!

Thank you for understanding that mentality for Shane. hes my second favorite character in TWD (behind Negan) and its cool to see someone with similar viewpoints as me.

Otis was so fond of shane he took a souvenir from his scalp to remember him by.

If Shane was wrong for killing Otis, Rick is wrong too for saying he would've done the same to save Carl.

@soulresonance4073

2 ай бұрын

Rick was wrong for saying that. It's kinda the point of the show. Rick in someways became like Shane, when he had to, but Rick always came back to sanity.

@jetla22

2 ай бұрын

Rick said that but I don't believe him. Not until like seasons 3, 5, 6. Would have been that ruthless

@MicahHeard

2 ай бұрын

@@jetla22 "I would've done anything, ANYTHING"

"i know you... you won't be able to live with this."

Shane was partially right. He knew the nature of the new world but he adapted "too fast" and in a selfish way. Shane was always Carl and Lori first, and he would've abandoned or sacrificed anyone for the three of them to survive. When Rick became more brutal and accepting of their reality, he still kept the human side of him intact. He was brutal but it was to protect "his group", which included more than just Carl and Lori. The biggest difference between Rick and Shane when you compare them when they both adapted. Rick would never shoot Glen to ensure his own survival, Shane would.

0:57 & 4:49 had me rolling 🤣

Shane apologists are funny to me. The poster child of "adapting too fast" when you have someone like daryl in the group, daryl is who you look towards as a group survivor not shane. Shane is an unhinged, reckless, aggressive, dickhead that endangered rick and the group countless times. Otis isn't even on the table for being relevant to shane's character, shane as a whole is just a complete moron. If shane adapted, he wouldn't have died.

Those zombies had a unusual case of the zoomies

The meme edits were so unexpected, I laughed out loud while in the bathroom.

I mean Rick easily became crazier than Shane was later on. Shane just made it to the point of do what’s gotta be done to keep us alive quicker than the rest of the group.

@sonofodin1044

2 ай бұрын

I think you need to do your research Rick does what needs to be done while having sympathy for others all around him Shane was bitter broken during the beginning of the apocalypse while Rick kept his head straight until later on in the seasons

@DeadX2

2 ай бұрын

@@sonofodin1044nah rick became worse lo

@NoOne-ev7vj

2 ай бұрын

@@DeadX2 got to love the imposible to know awnsers right. cause guess what my man if he was this bad at the beginning logic only follows hed have been 10xs worse later on, stop fan buying. they were all bad but shit man you'd probably welcome jeffry dahmer in your group lol...

@DeadX2

2 ай бұрын

@@NoOne-ev7vj I never said anyone was good? Lol invalid argument

@DeadX2

2 ай бұрын

@@NoOne-ev7vj also no o wouldn’t what does that even have to do with anything

"middle of the fucking night" caught me off guard 'fucking' twice

I will always wonder why Hershel didn’t give them his unlimited shotgun

Otis was awesome. Wish he'd lived longer.

@TheRealCaptainGold

2 ай бұрын

Otis is the GOAT.

@AchillesofOblivion

2 ай бұрын

He's the ones who eat

Fitness Instructor in Project Zomboid is underrated. It cost 14 points but you get 3 fitness, 2 Sprinting (and 100% xp boost) and the trait that lets you know the nutritional value of all food. With 10 points you get 4 fitness and that's it.

@SomeoneElseInTheComments

2 ай бұрын

Are you a bot? This video has very little to do with PZ.

@tooslow4065

2 ай бұрын

@@SomeoneElseInTheCommentshopefully he was meaning that otis should have taken the fitness instructor class and maybe he'd still be alive?

@Davizitoh

2 ай бұрын

Lol wut?

@Blargy2inch

2 ай бұрын

​@@SomeoneElseInTheComments I don't think he is a bot because his comment was edited

@gifi4

22 күн бұрын

@@SomeoneElseInTheComments This content creator uploads videos of Project Zomboid. It is shown in the outro. He was referencing the occupation and traits in the game which would have improved Shane and Otis' chance of survival... So to stoop down to your level - Are you a bot?

*Other than the Lori stuff, Shane was correct about every judgement call when it came to survival and operations. Rick was literally helping Hershel bring walkers to the farm. I mean, c'mon. Not even Glenn was okay with it. Shane was clearly better for keeping them alive than Rick.*

Shane, the character, was almost a great survivor, but I do believe Negan would've chosen him over Abraham, or even with him, if he made it that far with Rick. The thing with Shane is, he wasn't wrong, but he was driven mad by Lori and the fact that no one else trusted him to be anything but a hammer and a loose cannon. He made some poor choices and began lying to the group. I believe Shane was effectively pushed from the group by Lori and Dale.

Shane was unquestionably wrong. If they had kept walking, Otis would have eventually lagged behind. If Shane had thought about it, he didn't have to kill him.

@lubelle9447

2 ай бұрын

Otis was carrying the other medical bag. His death would've meant nothing if the bag wasn't delivered to Hershel in time.

@linaskranauskas

2 ай бұрын

shane was injured. he was the one who was slower.

@tooslow4065

2 ай бұрын

if he hadn't, maybe otis shows back up with a bite and turns on everyone? better safe that sorry. i'd have killed otis too.

@TheRealCaptainGold

2 ай бұрын

They sorta both agreed they weren’t gonna just “walk” out of there. Gotta pay attention to what the narrative is telling us.

@linaskranauskas

2 ай бұрын

the narrative is telling us that shane is the deceitful murderer.@@TheRealCaptainGold

There's no question to odis's murder, he absolutely was willing to let ppl die because of his own incompetence and moral standings. He was also too naive to accept the reality that only one person could walk out of that situation alive or was too selfish to sacrifice another or more significantly himself. Killing odis was the equivalent to ripping out a leach from ur body, a leach that fed on taking a moral highground to compensate for his own incompetence. The worst part about him is after he was shot in the leg and hope of survival was very clearly impossible, he LITERALLY dragged down his friend. Man if that ain't a crystal clear metaphor to his evil, idk what is.

@TheRealCaptainGold

2 ай бұрын

I wouldn’t say he was a leech. Lol Dude’s reaction to getting shot and feeling betrayed was very normal and understandable. His insistence that he wouldn’t leave Shane behind was what sealed his fate tbh.

@JoeyMace28

2 ай бұрын

You’re smoking some funny shit

@smurfmianz4527

2 ай бұрын

@@TheRealCaptainGold bro had like 5 opportunities to realize he couldn't handle the job

@gifi4

22 күн бұрын

My man, if someone forcibly shoots you, even in terms of the greater good, you will fight back. If you agree to be sacrificed, that is a whole different story. How do you even draw these conclusions?

@smurfmianz4527

7 күн бұрын

@@gifi4 uh no i wouldnt because im not so scummy to drag down the ppl trying to help me lol

Shane employed the bear escape method . In bear country make sure you have a slower person with you if necessary knee cap them then escape when the bear is eating the other person. Shane made the right choice for himself and the group at the time.

“I’m not the monster, I’m just ahead of the curve.”

The gta shot and “WASTED” had me laughing so hard bro 😭

Keep doing the good job man, love to watch your videos about these moral dillemas on zombie media in general, i love the character of shane walsh, i grew watching the walking dead since i was a kid when season 1 had just starting airing , so thats where my love for zombie media in general comes from, keep doing the good job, and post more videos about theses things, tnks

The only thing I don't understand is why Shane didn't just shoot Otis in the head. Would have saved him from being eaten alive and turning, and there also would have been no struggle for the backpack.

@Maesterful

2 ай бұрын

A screaming victim will attract more attention than a dead one, which is what bought Shane time to run away (especially considering how much faster the walkers in S1 are)

THE HITMARKER 💀💀💀💀

I remember when I first saw that when I was younger, I was mad at Shane and didn't understand. Now I understand. Makes me wanna rewatch walking dead. Great vid!

Would’ve been nice to have more solo Shane episodes

the hit marker was uncalled for lol

Shane was right in the wrong time. While he was making the choices no one could or would make it’s also one to consider if the choices he made would’ve put the group in more danger than they needed to be. His line of thinking of kept around would’ve made the group the upper echelon of being like The Governor or like Neagans people. When you abandon morality as quickly as Shane was willing to for what he considered the greater good it leads nothing more to depravity.

@Duncle0

2 ай бұрын

Shane didn't kill Otis because it was for the greater good. He killed him because he valued the survival of his own group more than the survival of anybody in the Greene family.

@jackcro2146

Ай бұрын

this is exactly spot on and something no one is grasping. People want everyone to just accept that the world is like that and is a fucked up place, where things like murder are justified. But this is the exact reason the world turned to shit and i think people look at Shanes actions within the context of what the world became after his death. Shane was ahead of the curve but this in no way is a good thing and i dont understand why people think it is so great. Being ahead of the curve that early just means youre a borderline psychopath and a dangerous person to be around, and yet people praise him as a hero.

@gifi4

22 күн бұрын

@@Duncle0 That makes no sense. Shane OFFERED to sacrifice himself first. Shane valued the survival of Carl, and was willing to sacrifice himself for that. When Otis did not comply, then Shane sacrificed Otis.

Well, to be fair, he did offer Otis to take the medicine, and he would stay behind, and Otis said, "No." So he kind of didn't have a choice at that point. If no one gets left behind then both of them would die and Carl would die. Because he wouldn't get the medicine. I think what he did was horrible, but in a situation like that. Where Otis wouldn't sacrifice Shane. Shane had to sacrifice, Otis.

bro could've go for the head and not make him suffer, but he went for the leg so he could feel the dead eating him alive

People don't appreciate how badly Otis and Patricia died

When I consider the entire enterprise I often think 'This is a show which takes several seasons and multiple branches to discover a mindset Shane already had in season one.' People's exhaustive clinging to a world that no longer exists. Notice every time a new community is discovered (Towns and Cities) the inhabitants are attempting to recreate the old. They always succumb to the falseness of implied security,..then die for their trouble. It's happening again in 'The Ones Who Live.' The hubris of tyrannical leadership never allows for the enabling of its members.

@vismattress5760

2 ай бұрын

I mean I’m the comics they achieve a good, nice civilization

@gifi4

22 күн бұрын

Except that's a good thing. Here's what you want - Communities that have been exposed to the disastrous world, then choose to wall off and rebuild a society. The ones who were walled off from the beginning are clinging to something that is already gone - As you need to know how dark and evil the world now is (Though it always has been this dark and evil, we just have laws and prisons to deter the viciousness of those people), then you rebuild from that. This does lead to one problem which is seen when Negan arrives and he sees Rick's video profile in Alexandria, and that is that Negan would have never messed with THAT Rick. Becoming civilised is dangerous, especially in a world where you need that savage mentality to survive.

Great observations my friend great video

Antagonist? He’s an antihero 😂 I love Shane

The missing part is that Shane wasn't clear to Otis that one of them had to die. If Shane had said that only one of them was going to make it and if Otis wasn't going to let Shane sacrifice himself then Shane would sacrifice Otis. This would have made Otis understand the severity of the situation and he probably would have let Shane sacrifice himself. Shane withheld this truth from Otis which makes his actions devious. Shane is a strong character but in the end, he has to live with his decision regardless if what he did is right or wrong, he is the one that has to live with those choices. In the end, he couldn't do that

@TheRealCaptainGold

2 ай бұрын

It was pretty clearly communicated imo. Shane telling Otis they aren’t gonna make it and to grab the bags, with Otis replying that he wouldn’t leave him behind and that they had to “try” explicitly proves this.

@rossramsay4718

2 ай бұрын

@@TheRealCaptainGold I think it comes down to their vastly different mindset. Otis is the kind of honorable person who is willing to risk his own life to do right by Carl and his family. Otis had the morality of a person in a modern society which is to say he would never take it upon himself to sacrifice somebody else. He could not conceive of somebody else having the ability to do that too him, especially in such a painful gruesome way. Therefore Im sure it never crossed his mind that Shane was thinking about, and willing to do just that. Shane did have that ability due to his post apocalyptic world view. I think there is very few people who would have had the ability to do what Shane did and live with themselves. Even if Shane believed in his heart that he made the right choice it was too damning to live with

Shane was the only one who was adapting fast to the new world but in the end all the other turned like him,his obsession with Lori just made him even more crazy

He was right about the nature of the new world but his obsession with Lori led him to lose his s*** and into conflict with Rick

I advise everyone to watch all of Shane’s deleted scenes. I use them as cannon. They enriched his character so much, ans I’ll never understand why they deleted the most humanizing parts of Shane. The conflict for us viewers would’ve been far greater if we could see him both comfort Sophia, give her water, or reach out to Daryl and tell him he’s gonna be nice to him now. They were such enriching, humanizing scenes that made what happened later so much more tragic.

Shane understood what would be required to live in the new world more quickly than the others. His problem was his inability to communicate this new reality to the others and his obsession with Lori. Rick had to learn this reality the hard way, and it cost the people around him their lives again and again.

When I was in my psychology course, there was a decision like this involving a trolley and on one path that it’s already going our about 4 to 5 people that will surely be run over and killed and on the other path there is one person you have the opportunity to switch which path that goes on With the lever that is next to you initially you are saving many lives, but you are taking another. It all. Just depends on what you feel is morally correct because if you do not intervene at all, then those lives will be taken regardless and if you do intervene, one person dies.

@gifi4

22 күн бұрын

...That is called the trolley problem. Yes, we all know about it hahahaha

The fact that the show writers never knew he was right should have been an early sign of what series would become.

The hit marker took me out 😂😂😂

“His death was a necessary loss” - Shane and Palpatine

Shane was right and ahead of the curve, Lori of course was playing with him, she told him to stay away and what they had wasn’t real which he did but then the same episode he got killed she literally again played mind games by telling him that what they had was actually real and that she was sorry, woman playing games like usual which is what made him obsess over her and get himself killed by Rick. I will say tho he basically tried to SA Lori when he was drunk so that’s very bad

I always wondered if it was necessary, considering the walkers were still a good distance behind them. Not only that but Shane’s plan nearly killed both of them in the process.

People hate S2 but that episode going to the school for supplies is a legitimately great episode

“Middle fucking night”😂😂 that threw me off

When Shane says “yall wanna live, you wanna survive? You gotta fight for it.” Im reminded of Eren Yeager from AOT when he says “the only way to live is to fight”. Imagine youre in a group of people, and you know what it takes to survive but everyone around you doesnt realize it and to everyone else it makes you seem like a bad guy or evil. Yeah i think that would make me a little crazy too. Being so intent on keeping everyone alive and watching them do everything that could get them killed.

Y'know, I hate to body shame and all that, but I think Otis would've probably died not long after his actual death in the show had he survived anyway, both from his physical impairments, and because of some of his personality traits. Not only was Otis shown to be incredibly unfit, we was also just a really big dude, and could've gotten himself caught pretty easily in almost any situation just by getting himself cornered because he couldn't squeeze through a smaller gap. He got lucky with the school gym, because he knew his way around there, and knew that there were windows big enough for him to climb through, but what happens when he gets to a place he doesn't know and can't find bigger windows for himself to fit through? It probably didn't help that the show was also pushing his physical impairments making him a liability right from the get go. Unlike some of the other bigger dudes on the show like Jerry from the Kingdom, Otis was shown to be more of a stereotypical obese person (short of breath, no stamina, not very fast or agile, etc.), while Jerry had more of a stocky build, and was pretty fit for a bigger guy, with most of his mass being muscle with a layer of fat over the top (a fairly common trait among Polynesian descendants). I can't help but feel that if Shane sacrificed himself like he tried to initially, Otis probably would've run out of stamina just around the corner from there and got surrounded by Walkers anyway (again, the show was really pushing how much of a liability he was). Otis' physical impairments aside, he also seemed to be more in line with how Dale was, personality-wise. He seemed very stuck in the old world, and not as willing to adapt in fear of losing his humanity, always trying to do what is right, without making the harder decisions. While, we didn't see as much of Otis' character prior to his death, we do know from word of mouth afterwards that he was the reason Hershel's barn was full of Walkers in the first place. Hershel always struck me to be someone who was willing to let go of the idea of Walkers being "sick people" eventually, it was just his wife and son being in the barn that kept him holding out hope, while Otis just kinda seemed like he was gonna keep gathering more Walkers up until the barn became unable to hold them anymore. Yes, he shot Walkers at the school, but that was while he was out on a run. If he had to shoot Walkers invading the farm, I'm not so sure he would have, since he always just put the stragglers into the barn.

The only thing I never understood in regards to the Shane sacrificing Otis in the moral/ethical conundrum (there is a difference) was: why not just shoot him in the head/heart? It was and has been proven that Walkers are attracted to the flesh of the recently deceased.

Shane's bullheaded and reckless attitude would've clearly got the group killed in a variety of situations that required Rick's charisma and calm to get them through. Im fairly certain that Shane would have lead the group into a suicidal full frontal attack against the governor resulting in everyone probably dying. I also can't see a world where everyone in the group who mattered (Michonne, Glenn, Darryl, Carol) would have stuck around and followed him considering how much of a tyrant he was becoming. He didn't have the ability to earn people's respect like Rick could, nor did he make people feel special and important like Rick could.

The real question is was Shane right about Rick not being able to protect Lori and Carl

This was a very interesting take on one of my favorite characters on the show. I think Shane is a complicating and flawed character (being a generally good person until the world breaks him), but this had me rethink my stance on the Otis incident. I had forgotten over time how Otis was unwilling to let Shane sacrifice himself.

Tbh When I looked at their situation with Ottis again, I thought that Ottis could take bags and go, as Shane would be light and call out for walkers to take their time, then get lost in the houses and either wait in safe place somewhere there, or reach for the car.

Shane was so interested in a sacrifice, then he should have sacrificed himself anyway without there being a choice about it.

The cadence of your voice makes me think I’m at a star map terminal on Kashyyk, testing my morality.