Tom Wright is brilliant. Not perfect, but brilliant.

Billy, This was so good ! Thank you and good to see you on screen ! They addressed many things that have rolling around in my soul. so appreciate NT Wright and Preston.

Excited for this combo. Preston has interviewed Tom before but hearing them in a combined format is a treat🔔✅

Preston and Tom are two of my favourite theologians. I think it's clear the church needs some introspection first. Unity and Holiness are definitely what the church needs to focus on.

I’ve also enjoyed several of Preston’s KZread episodes on various topics including his work with the LGBTQ people.

I’ve had the privilege of reading multiple books by Tom Wright and every one of them has great substance and deep insight.

Great discussion! More reading to be done!

Love your content and love listening to N T Wright🔥🔥🔥

@vanishingpoint7411

Ай бұрын

yes great for insomnia ,, I find it sends you to sleep , listening the verbal diarrhoea off NT Wright

@cpjds1

Ай бұрын

@@vanishingpoint7411Huh? He’s such a respected figure and one of the kindest people in the space. I think he deserves something a bit better than ‘verbal diarrhea’.

@vanishingpoint7411

Ай бұрын

@@cpjds1 respected by who ?? Credulous people who believe the same nonsense. some talks constant nonsense is a appropriate description as verbal diarrhoea

We must always remember the 'now, but not yet' aspect of Christ's kingdom. When he returns in glory, all righteousness will be manifest. In this age, however, God attempts to persuade while the choices are delegated to men. Jesus showed the way. He never forced anyone, but simply showed them what was true.

@martinploughboy988

Ай бұрын

I don't see God attempting to persuade, rather I see that God is in control, manipulating men to achieve His aim. As Scripture says: The king’s heart is a stream of water in the hand of the Lord; he turns it wherever he will. (Proverbs 21:1) As far as salvation is concerned, since all men are dead in their sins and cannot please God, therefore God must intervene. The sinner must be born again, the Father must draw them to the Son who must save them. The sinner has no part in salvation, it is all of God.

@stephenbailey9969

Ай бұрын

@@martinploughboy988 Very poetic words by wise King Solomon. But from one end of scripture to the other, God gives choices to people. He imparts a general grace of reason and conscience for all. (Romans chapters 1 and 2) Those who listen are blessed in this life and those who don't find curses. Eternal salvation, however, is all of God. There is no way for us to heal ourselves of sin or death by our own power. Yet there has still been delegated a choice to accept that healing or not. God by his special saving grace enables this broken humanity to see the choice and to decide one way or the other. Christ draws all people by the power of the Holy Spirit. (John 6:45, 12:32, 16:8) "For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people..." (Titus 2:11) "And He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." (1 John 2:2) Praise be to God for his mercy and saving grace. May all souls accept it.

Really appreciated this dialogue. I had never heard that Martin Luther quote.

God who became King!

Boomer here I'd describe myself as a Christian agnostic in that I've been engaging with scripture over a long life without knowing or caring if the scales will ever fall from my eyes. Big influence from people from Whitehead to Albert Schweitzer. I find Tom Wright's work not at all academic, he's an excellent stylist with an open mind. This is something of of a rarity in scholarship.

I gotta say, one thing I'm glad for my Catholic Church, with all the things we get wrong, is there is one Church. Not a Catholic Church for Whites and another for Blacks on the other side of town.

@martinploughboy988

Ай бұрын

Except it isn't a church, Rome chose to reject the opportunity to reform when challenged by Luther, as it had done previously. Like some of the churches in Revelation 2 & 3 it had been warned that God would take away the lampstand, they chose to reject God's warning.

@jaggedstarrPI

26 күн бұрын

Me too, @Shevock. It is nice on Christmas Eve for example, to see all the peoples of the world represented, both in the pews and in the clergy. But of course, we should acknowledge right away that the Anglican Church and others can happily say the same...And of course, that Christ's Church (i.e. His body) is made up of all Christians. I know as Catholics we believe that Jesus established his Church through Peter. But the principle remains: It is Christ's church and only He knows who are its true members.

Mr. Wright, the gun debate is more complex than what you make it out to be. Yes, there are risks if civilians have arms. There are also risks if ONLY the government has arms. The question I go to is, who’s capable of murdering more people, civilians or a government body?

@PC-vg8vn

Ай бұрын

i wonder if you look at the US over the past 50 years, how many citizens have been killed by the government and how many by fellow citizens?

@W0nderer

Ай бұрын

Americans always raise the issue of the complexity of gun control and what is someone else has guns... I think it's the wrong viewpoint. This is the kind of binary thinking that gets us into trouble. Wright continually referenced the sermon on the mount. This should be the starting point. And if you look at how the early church went from a handful of people to around 50% of the Roman Empire 300 years later - they did it by spreading a counter cultural message of love. As Preston exhorts us, let's take a biblical view of how Christians are meant to live.

@mayboy128

Ай бұрын

@@W0nderer Perhaps it’d be helpful if you gave a policy prescription based on your view of what you think sermon on the mount living is and people can discuss the merits of that. Your comment is still vague to me.

@caratacus6204

Ай бұрын

So because you want the ability to rise up and overthrow your own government on the off chance it becomes tyrannous, Aurora, Uvalde and Sandy Hook are just the price you pay? That seems like a very inefficient way of guaranteeing democracy.

@derkkeijzer6874

Ай бұрын

Do you think that the founding fathers had in their minds the current situation and type of guns what citizens buy? When the founding fathers could come back alive for a short periode of time and look around in America today, what do you think will be their reactions? Thumbs up? Your point about the different in victims as result of guns carry by citizens or goverment, is that really a fair one to compair? Do really citizens feel more safe if everyone around them have guns? Does did not push a kind of higher status, to have better and expensive guns, guns that kill more people in a short time? Are the average americans really more afraid of the guns of their army and police and having a gun themselves, give that at the same time them more security? It seems not in reality when we see all the incidents where even in school children die. That effects enormous the feeling of being safe in a community, don't you think? I understand of your respons, that having guns contribute to a personal feeling of safety. If you live not in a place where Police is near by and there are incidents with crimes, that having a gun give security, i understand. But in Europe are also goverments, police and army's, why have citizens in Europe than all over, no personal guns and not so often schoolshootings etc.?

Maybe countries shouldn't be able to become large or influential enough that you can't run them in a moral way, and maybe we should work towards that end instead of towards our own luxury 🤷‍♀️

My concern as a Christian is that the current republican candidate wants to be a dictator and democracy is at stake. I don’t think it’s propaganda. If I hold truth to Donald Trump I have a whole lot to be critical of.

Here's my concern about both of these men: they both appear to be using their own concept of "God" as an excuse to claim power and authority for themselves. Neither of them is wise enough to know that they cannot know how God wants them to vote or what God's position would be on any political issue. Imagine someone saying, " I vote this way because God wants me to do so, " or "I'm attending this rally because God wants me to be here." How do you know how God wants you to vote? Or which rallies to attend (or not attend)? You don't know. You can't know. What seems sorely lacking in these men is basic humility, and it the meek who Jesus said would inherit the Earth, not the arrogant or proud. You have no authority by which to judge how your neighbor votes. None. You cannot and do not speak for God. If you believe that you do, then you are a danger to both society and the Church.

@jsharp3165

Ай бұрын

Did you really listen to these men? Neither of them made any of the assertions you assign to them. Neither claimed to speak for God or to have absolute certitude about the topic. Quite the opposite, they frequently note when something is outside their expertise. Both spent decades arriving at the conclusion that the more they learn the more they still need to learn. Tom Wright in particular is almost maddeningly non-committal sometimes, so to accuse him of thundering proclamations from an ivory tower is humorous at best. It certainly seems like you already have a longstanding axe to grind about anyone speaking with any confidence on religion, and started composing your comment the minute the video started. If you believe no religion has the answers or if you believe God's will is unknowable, then that's your right and peace be with you. But these are two Christian scholars discussing a Christian perspective on how Christians have handled politics. This is an in-house discussion among Christians. And there are certain internal presuppositions that form the framework for Christian beliefs and living, chief among them being the teachings of Christ, that all Christians believe. And we must be confident in those things. Otherwise, it isn't Christianity. It is not arrogance but humility to say "These are the basic things we all must agree on." If a Muslim said "Well you can't be sure if Muhammad was actually a prophet," he wouldn't be a Muslim. If a Jew said "Eh, there may be other gods, who can say for sure," she wouldn't be a Jew. Same thing with Christianity. There are some things that we have to believe are God's will and Christ's teachings or we aren't Christians.

@dbarker7794

Ай бұрын

Why are only "some things" God's will? Is it only the good things that are "God's will"? Is cancer part of "God's will"? ​@jsharp3165

We vote, God places the rulers in power. Romans 13

The problem with Christianity in the West is it doesn't cost anything. You can eat, drink and be merry and still call yourself a Christian.

@philochristos

Ай бұрын

It depends on where you live, who your friends and family are, what you do for a living, and what exactly your Christian beliefs are. I mean if you're a conservative Christian who opposes abortion, doesn't recognize same sex marriage, etc., and you're trying to make it in Hollywood, you're probably just going to be ostracized. I mean look how they tried to cancel Chris Pratt just because he went to a church that didn't support same sex marriage. Wintery Knight has a Christian apologetics blog and maintains anonymity because he believes he could lose his job because of what he writes on his blog. Some of us live in constant fear of being ostracized by our own families if we refuse to attend a same sex wedding. But, I mean, if you live in Alabama, and you're surrounded by like-minded people, then you're probably right. It doesn't cost those people anything to be a Christian. In some places, being a Christian is even an advantage.

@dbarker7794

Ай бұрын

We definitely need to make life harder and not at all enjoyable!

I can't help thinking that both parties are full of muddled thinking. On one hand Wright expresses alarm at multiple churches worshipping in different ways & then says he doesn't want to stop people worshipping in different ways. So which is it? Then again, they both seem to speak of the Church as an organisation, when Scripture is very clear, the Church is the gathering of people. I've come to the conclusion that neither knows what they are talking about.

I think I want to live in Great Britain. My grandmother and grandfather immigrated to the U.S. after the first World War. Would to God they had remained in England. D. T. Wright mirrors my own perspectives. I met Jesus in 1971, and was dismayed to discover that many pastors and church bodies aligned their faith around the GOP, and idolized the Nation of America as the New Israel. An honest reading of history belies that false narrative, and all of the suppositions that have taken that error and used it as a launching pad for all sorts of heresy and cruelty. The Jesus created to accommodate this error is not the Jesus of Scripture or the God I have walked with for 56 years. The names I have been called for not conforming to that worldview. It is quite tragic. On the pro life issue, it seems to me, that the life of the unborn child takes precedence over every other perspective. True pro life would see that both the child and the mother were able to flourish after the child's birth. That's where the influence of real Christianity comes into play in political discourse. Allowing lethal weapons to be sold indiscriminately is sheer folly and hypocrisy. I was called a Marxist for taking a stand for racial equity. The list is long. I love Tom Wright's viewpoints. It makes rational sense, and spiritual honesty.

I wish the United States would give up guns like the UK. I believe everyone eligible voter should vote especially Christians!

Jesus clearly stated; “ My kingdom is not of this world…” God states that He sets up and brings down the rulers of this world(Daniel 4:17). This is not God’s world(II Corinthians 4:4), but it will be when Christ returns( Revelation 11:15).

What do my brothers and sisters in The UK think about Trump being president?

Wright refers to the killing of unborn children. If that is how abortion should be thought of then surely he can understand why so many Christians in the US vote depending on the candidate's view on abortion? As for gun control, yes there is hypocrisy, but I would assume most Americans who think holding a gun is acceptable believe that because it is not guns that kill but individuals who choose to use a gun to kill others. Is that not born out by the fact that its neighbour, Canada, also has relative gun freedom yet the rate of gun-deaths is much lower than the US? The US has about 4x that of Canada per 100,000 of population for gun deaths.

@kellyrhoads1067

Ай бұрын

Does Canada have other things like a mental health crisis or entitlement syndrome? Perhaps the low number of gun deaths have more to do with other factors

@kellyrhoads1067

Ай бұрын

Does Canada have other things like a mental health crisis or entitlement syndrome? Perhaps the low number of gun deaths have more to do with other factors

@derkkeijzer6874

Ай бұрын

With abortion, one end the live of an unborn child. In case of an older unborn child, the more, don't you agree? Their could be also an option to give birth and give an couple the baby, who cannot have children of their own genes. No need to adopt a baby from foreign countries, with the risk of a bad business model. Knowing nothing about background and the risk of identedy issues of the child in puberty, or later on in live. We don't hear about that option, because clearly one prefers an abortion in secret. If a abortion happens in a very early face, i can handle that better. Prevention of abortion, if one don't want c hildren, or more children, is not an issue i hear about in this matter. In case of rape or incest, is this a whole other matter, ofcourse.

How can this stupid question be even posed?

Jesus is dead. He doesn't think anything about modern politics. In fact, he doesn't think at all.

We simply don't know what Jesus was all about as we don't know what he said, or did. There seems to be a near consensus that there was a man called Jesus but what he said or did is anybody's guess.

@stevenwiederholt7000

Ай бұрын

@matthewphilip1977 "We simply don't know what Jesus was all about as we don't know what he said, or did." That is possibly the silliest thing I've read this week. And that is saying something.

@matthewphilip1977

Ай бұрын

@@stevenwiederholt7000 Why do you believe that?

@stevenwiederholt7000

Ай бұрын

@@matthewphilip1977 Well Because we have a Pretty good idea of what Jesus was all about as we don't know what he said, or did.

@anthonybarber3872

Ай бұрын

Now why should anyone believe a thing like that?!

@matthewphilip1977

Ай бұрын

@@stevenwiederholt7000 “Well Because we have a Pretty good idea of what Jesus was all about as we don't know what he said, or did.” Why would we have a good idea of what he was about given we don’t know what he said or did?

Tom keep in mind that there is not a devision Male and Female. For God created in his image Male and Female therefore separate people are not the image of God. Only Male and Female together fully represent the image of God as He created Them.