It took over 6 hours just to subtitle the about 13 minutes George and Yukari section. But I'm translating it in an "accurate" way. Which I feel makes it hard to read sometimes. But I'm curious as to what you guys think.

@japanesefromzero

4 күн бұрын

ALSO... here is the video being commented about: kzread.info/dash/bejne/nWmsu9Gql9SdaZM.html

@hugocsousa97

4 күн бұрын

You should probably use dedicated subtitling software for this sort of thing. It would speed things up. You'd just have to edit the video first and then add the subtitles separately. Try Subtitle Edit, it's free. I don't really know much about video editing but it should be easy enough to load the subtitles into the video project afterwards.

@japanesefromzero

3 күн бұрын

@@hugocsousa97 How does it work? I mean Adobe's subtitle flow is really good compared to years back. Cap Cut is really good too, probably better, but I haven't seen Subtitle Edit.

@hugocsousa97

3 күн бұрын

@@japanesefromzero Well, the main thing that I find useful is that it generates a waveform with the audio. That makes it easy to visually guess where a new line should start/end. And then to add a new line you can just use your mouse to draw a box around where you think the subtitle should be and press enter to create a new line. Then you can drag that box around and easily make it shorter/longer if it isn't perfectly synchronized with the video. Other than that, since it's a dedicated subtitling software, it has options to set limits for characters per line and max characters per second. If you overshoot, you'll get a visual reminder to tell you that a certain line has too many characters. It's a bit hard to describe the workflow without seeing it in action, so if you want a quick overview just look up "SUBTITLE EDIT: complete tutorial". I just saw this video and it touches on the main features of the program. There are also more advanced features, like automatically transcribing a video, but I don’t know if this would be very useful in your case since the videos mix two languages. If you want to see how it works, check out this video “Subtitle Edit: How to automatically transcribe and add subtitles to a Video”. Regarding the last point, I can actually think of a possible workaround. If you exported two versions of the video, one with only English audio and the other with just Japanese, you’d be able to auto transcribe each of them separately. You’d have to mute all the sections that are in Japanese for one video and mute all the sections in English for the other. Afterwards you’d merge both subtitles using “subconverter.com merge-subtitles-online”. From there you could load the normal video with both languages and edit the merged subtitle. Hope this helps…

can't believe they called you "inexperienced" in translating, when you probably have more professional translating experience then they have been alive 😂

It seems really weird they'd make an entire video about you, but not watch the entire original video. How does that even happen? xD Great video so far

@japanesefromzero

4 күн бұрын

They just made a comment, not a video. I took their comment and added voice.

@AlwaysStreams

4 күн бұрын

@@japanesefromzero Oh, your editing skills are just so on point, I thought it was a separate video xD (it's 6am for me, no judging)

One of the primary reasons why I wanted to start learning Japanese was to no longer need to rely on reading subtitles and to read untranslated light novels. When I first got into watching anime, after a while I had naturally picked up enough understanding of some common phrases that I began to notice some translation oddities in the subtitles. It felt odd seeing the same phrases I'd heard over and over again get translated in tons of different ways, not all of which made particular sense in context. Then, while reading translated light novels, my brain would start to reverse translate. I began recognizing a number of translation shortcuts and workarounds, particularly for Japanese honorifics, that made it pretty obvious what the source phrasing was. The translations would often feel a bit unnatural or odd to me, even getting to a point where I'd prefer they just not translate the honorifics than do a poor or inconsistent job of it. It got me thinking about what else was odd or mistranslated that I didn't know enough to recognize. How much of the original meaning and context was I missing due to poor translations? This is what drove my desire to start learning the language several years ago. My goal is to eventually be able to comprehend untranslated light novels and be able to watch and listen to anime without needing subtitles. As for how well it's going...life's gotten a bit in the way and progress has been slow, but I'm looking to get back into it soon and ideally solidify what I still need from N4 concepts so I can move into intermediate-level.

@PeninsulaCity2024

3 күн бұрын

Same here. Its even more noticable when you, even vagely, understood what was actually said vs what the subtitles say. Because of this, the context provided by the spoken dialogue can be vastly different that what the subtitles imply at times.

whether the subtitles were good or bad it doesn't matter, the video you made was great, for me it's the most effective to learn by going through each sentence

@japanesefromzero

4 күн бұрын

Maybe my wife and I should do more of these.

@rocklol2335

3 күн бұрын

@@japanesefromzero yes!, maybe instead of netflix -no spoilers and no copyright- 5 minutes of a normal conversation with your wife with english subs would be awesome or one of those japanese rockstars interview from YT - I cannot understand a word they say;)

As a professional dubbing translator for 10 years: yes. The translation for fiction requires rewriting stuff so that it make sense in the goal language. Otherwise, the final product makes no sense and is unnatural, which was not the experience of a native audience member. Our work is to replicate the experience intellectually, emotionally and narratively so that it is as close to the original experience as possible, not to do a word for word translation, which would be a bad translation. Each sentence must be sent to the platonic world of ideas, decomposed and rebuilt in the goal language from scratch. I don't like making subtitles because, as they are read while listening to the original, they have an added complication: making a new "natural" sentence in which each concept is sort of in the same place, so that people who understand parts of the original language don't short circuit. That "closer" translation is often less "good" or less "natural."

@japanesefromzero

4 күн бұрын

Thank you so much for this explanation from someone in the business, and thank you for all that you do bringing foreign language stories to other languages.

@Mololo

4 күн бұрын

@@japanesefromzero Thank you for your books and videos. I recently started learning Japanese specifically because I sometimes receive work which was originally a Japanese series or movie with an international English "bridge" translation of the original product, made with international English translators in mind (not for the audience), and, although they often have context notes, they often have very weird or soulless translations, and I want to be able to identify the nuisances of the original scene and what's actually going on whenever I find something weird again. They make these "bridge" translations because they often have a big infrastructure of localization from English and they want these products to go through that "human machine" instead of building that same structure also in Japanese (which would be the best solution).

I think a platform like Netflix, with a global audience, paid subscriptions and multi-million dollar budgets on their productions, the translator(s) should be held to a high standard. I thought the flaws you pointed out in the previous video were entirely justified (and fair), but I differ with you on the "giving them some slack". I wouldn't be surprised if the translation is done by auto-translate software anyway - it seemed so. A very entertaining and interesting video (as always). Gee I wouldn't wanna pay you and Yukari by the hour to translate a book 🤭🤭 Btw I learnt something new recently from watching 'The Covenant', and that is, a translators job is to interpret !! Had never thought of it like that before.

@japanesefromzero

4 күн бұрын

It wasn't the translation that took time. It was the work of adding all the titles. Luckily though it's not my business to translate books anyways.

Another enjoyable JFZ video.

@japanesefromzero

3 күн бұрын

Another enjoyable Ulyana comment.

11:20 "You jumped to conclusions!" *Also didnt finish the video for full context before criticizing"

Stayed for the song. So great.

@japanesefromzero

4 күн бұрын

I lowered the level of the drums on this version. I think it sounds better now.

One cultural example that can't be translated from Japanese that I can remember is from 君の名は where みつは on たき's body said わたし、わたくし、ぼく、おれ and the dub version it's completely different

@japanesefromzero

2 күн бұрын

Simple and great example.

Happy to see your wife is back from Japan

Does anyone else miss cultural notes in translations. Back when torrents were popular, most translators would add something to get a better understanding of what's being said.

@DraustTrollbaneUS

4 күн бұрын

"Just according to keikaku." Translater's note: keikaku means plan.

@sigmareaver680

4 күн бұрын

Yeah, those were nice, especially for cultural references that just don't come through the translation. Inside jokes, if you will.

@Mololo

4 күн бұрын

That shortcircuits a regular audience member. It only makes sense for a translation made for students of Japanese. But you want to sell your product to everyone, and you can't expect a regular audience member to pause to read what a rice ball is, you have to translate so that they understand it in the actual sentence.

@diydylana3151

3 күн бұрын

I think itd be nice if there was like a text file with translators notes and timestamps.

@russellward4624

Күн бұрын

Yea, they were super helpfull for Gokusen.

would be cool to see this same format in a couple anime scenes

@japanesefromzero

4 күн бұрын

Let me see what I can do. It's really hard though because the copyright stuff. It gets blocked if it's any more than a few seconds at a time it seems.

@ZachYoungBlood

4 күн бұрын

@@japanesefromzero true, you could even show a picture that shows the english sub at the bottom and just tell us what they said and why its wrong.

I mainly use the subtitles as a quick reminder for word meanings I can't quite remember at the second. It is interesting to see how some stuff is translated. Funny story. Saw Godzilla Minus One at the theater when it was preview released subtitled. Forgot what scene, but I laughed before everyone else because I knew the Japanese words and others were having to read the subtitle. Kinda of embarrassing.

Hello from recommended land! Yknow, while I think having a contracted team might be bad for subtitles because they do not get familiar with the source material, I think for interviews that's perfect. It's a non-bias party writing down what was said as they said it. I think for people studying Japanese, there is a lot of people not satisfied with translations because they think they could be better. I say, go work in that field! A coulda, shoulda, woulda, doesn't really get anything done. Anyone can point a finger and say, "This is not enough, I want better!" At the end of the day, as a Japanese learner, who is losing some hearing in one of my ears, subtitles are by default a tool to help me hear what I might miss, so some liberties with the words need to stop. When dealing with English captions for English people with impaired hearing, they do NOT do what JP subtitles are encouraged to do. If I go completely deaf, I'm going to lose connection to the culture if the subtitles get switched out for some localized phenomenon. At this point, it's just best for me not to even use English subtitles anymore and just use Japanese subtitles to "hear". My curiosity to see how my fellows are subtitling will have to be buried haha We going full immersion The conversation between you and your wife was very funny by the way. You really embodied my feelings with body language alone haha

You're right. I did mistake 怪我する for 汚す without the Japanese subtitles or a Japanese script. First, I apologize for the assumptions I made. I shouldn't write while angry. (Although, aside from the first paragraph, the AI voice you used for me came out a lot angrier/forceful than I was for all the later paragraphs. It really makes you realize just how little emotional information written text conveys, and how differently it can be interpreted to how it was intended.) i fully agree that you could do a better translation…for you. In fact, it's a personal truism that "Your own translation is the best translation." Could I have done a better translation than this? Maybe. I wouldn't have gotten "kanojo" wrong, and if I didn't have a script or access to the Japanese subtitles and didn't think to ask my wife, I might have mistaken "kegasu." But you might have had almost as many complaints with my translation as you had with this one. I almost certainly wouldn't have translated it in a way that was right for you. My point is that all translations are words filtered through a brain, and the only one who will interpret a sentence exactly the way you think is right is you. And that applies to everyone. Everyone has different priorities, backgrounds and outlooks, and all of that informs and changes how you interpret words. Not just foreign-language words, but words in your own language as well. We all read the same stuff differently. It may only be slight differences, but every book is a different experience for every single one of us. It's kind of like seeing a movie of a book you've read. There would be glaring differences between what you imagined and what is on the screen. Some of that will be the compromises you need to make when going from one medium to another, and the need to assign real people to play imaginary people. But another big part of it is that the director and writer interpreted the same words you read differently than how you interpreted them. And that's the dirty secret of translation. You aren't reading the authors thoughts converted into another language (like the publishers and distributors would have you believe). You're reading the author's words filtered through a mind very different from yours before that translator's words enter your own mind to, again, be interpreted. It's a huge compromise. But considering the number of years it takes to learn a language, it's probably the only possible compromise for most people. (Believe me, to those who hope for this, AI translation will only have the same problem multiplied many times worse since an AI has even less insight into the author's mind than a human translator would.) That's why your language teaching is extremely valuable. The only way to get the thoughts of an author unfiltered through any brain but your own is to read it (or view it) in its original language yourself. And you're right. I also made extensive use of subtitles to learn Japanese. And, I'm sure that many, many other people do as well. But that doesn't negate the point that the intended audience of a translation is one that does not speak the original language. And since that is the intended audience, language learners are not the intended audience, and subtitles won't cater to their needs. What would have made me watch all the way to the end of your original video would have been a slight change of wording. Instead of, "that's wrong," something like, "I don't like that," or, "that isn't how I would have done it," or, "I disagree with that," would have been, in my opinion, more appropriate. For 彼女, it's perfectly fine to say such things are mistakes or wrong. There ARE mistakes in translations. They should be pointed out and corrected. But they shouldn't be mixed up with differences in interpretation. For those, different ways of referring to them are necessary. You don't have to like them, but you shouldn't refer to them as wrong until you figured out what the translator was trying to do with the way it was translated. But with your wording in the video, I was just getting angrier and angrier with each, "wrong," for translations where I could see the translator's viewpoint. Sorry for not viewing it all the way to the end, but I don't think you wanted me any angrier than I already was. Right? I don't hulk out, but I do make bad assumptions, as I did with you, so I apologize for those. I'm glad I didn't make worse ones. Also, I was under the mistaken impression that you thought the reason for the use of "her" instead of "girlfriend" was due to homophobia (or at least hetero-nomativity) with the translator or somewhere along the line of approvals. My mistake. I'm sorry. Oh, and it was nice to see you and you wife working together like that. I have a somewhat similar arrangement with my Japanese wife.

@japanesefromzero

4 күн бұрын

I knew you and I could be friends. But I think you would have been LESS angry if you had watched to the end. It's possible you quit watching at MAX anger level. （笑） I probably should have had a more intellectual sound on the AI for your voice. I was really trying to get it to speak Japanese more than anything, but nothing was working so I just ended up using the one I thought reflected your age and possible anger level. I really do appreciate you responding and watching my response.

@kaguya6900

4 күн бұрын

@@japanesefromzero ❤

@tangente00

4 күн бұрын

haha the voice, I just cant ....:)

@spiritsplice

3 күн бұрын

You're probably one of those woke translators inserting shit about the patriarchy and then claiming you "knew the authors real intent".

Actually, I don't know Japanese at all. I only can understand it with the help of Immersive Translate😂

omg the guy from that japanese book🫵😳

I don't know if this person was projecting, but it seemed that way to me. We often do this, right? We might sometimes project our own limitations on to others when we see think they are doing what we know/feel are our own problems.

@russellward4624

Күн бұрын

Seemed that way to me. He said he's taken flack for his translations and that fueled his tirade, or maybe he's in a subtitles vs the world Facebook group. He clearly came into the video with a conclusion and then cherry picked things that supported his initial conclusion. This isn't an exclusive issue with subtitles or even a new phenomenon. I see it quite a lot in youtube videos. People don't listen to what people are saying, they hear what they think they're going to say based on thier preconceived notions. Critical thinking is a real issue.

What are your thoughts on audiences and translators being directly at each other's throats? I'm not one for Twitter dramas, but when it does make its way to my feed, it usually happens to be about Japanese media translation and localization.

@japanesefromzero

4 күн бұрын

Interesting. I guess I'm out of the bubble. Are there any really famous / well-known tiffs that you think I should know about?

@Von_D

4 күн бұрын

@@japanesefromzero I don't think it was the translator responsible for the work that was involved in the Twitter arguments (heck, I haven't actually read it myself), but other translators who were friends of theirs were quick to defend the blatant mistranslations in 恋する（おとめ）の作り方 (I Think I Turned My Childhood Friend into a Girl). It was a yaoi manga about a guy who discovered he liked cross-dressing after his male friend who liked cosmetics gave him a makeover. The translator essentially attempted to rewrite him as a trans woman even though the Japanese text and subtext insist several times that he was male even though he liked having a feminine appearance. It got so bad that the publisher had to issue a statement about discussing with the author about what their actual original intent was and that they would reissue the first volume with a more faithful translation due to the immense backlash.

@spiritsplice

3 күн бұрын

@@Von_D The most blatant one was changing Lucoa's dialog in Dragon maid. Plenty of videos on that.

I love that the voice reading the comments sounds like a bad anime voice actor. Also I love when people make comments insulting you as if you don't have the actual credentials.

@japanesefromzero

4 күн бұрын

LOL. I love that it was you that said the HOMOPHOBIA line. But if you don't know my history, I am just a guy who "speaks some Japanese" so I get it!

Can't wait to see a video with George vs. Dogen on pitch accent since Matt got canceled.

@japanesefromzero

4 күн бұрын

I really don't want to support something I'm not a huge fan of.

@southcoastinventors6583

4 күн бұрын

@@japanesefromzero That why your one of the best.

I'm sorry I don't agree with George and Yukari at 32:27. I think mitsuki didn't say kaitte. She said kaette with proper pronunciation. But she was crying in this scene so the pronunciation got a little changed due to tears and nasal voice.

@japanesefromzero

3 күн бұрын

（笑） I only heard it differently after Yukari said it honestly. But once she said it, I heard it. I love Mitsuki so much! Shiori Kutsuna is my new idol!

so much violence in this video i could almost smell the blood

El amigo de la cartel EL AMIGO DE LA CARTEL

@hananokuni2580

3 күн бұрын

_Eso sí me da risa._ (Now *that* makes me laugh.)

didn't knew that comment would get it's own video 😁

@japanesefromzero

3 күн бұрын

I was inspired!

There are good subtitles and there are bad subtitles. Japanese is really hard to translate into English, because you're going from a high-context language(Japanese) to a low-context language(English) that have wildly different presumptions about their various words even when supposedly "equivalent", and whose socio-linguistic cultures are really different as well. What's the alternative though? Dubs? Dubs are generally way worse for capturing the depth and nuances since you now have to not only translate, but also translate into a much narrower format to match the lip-flaps of the people talking, or even when digital art is concerned, you have to preserve the timing and length of the cuts. Dubs will always be worse for accuracy than subs. So, yeah, while there is such a thing as bad subs, that does not take away from good subs, and still doesn't change the fact that subs are by far the best way of making Japanese audio-visual media accessible to foreigners abroad. Cheers, from a trilingual writer who's worked in the Japanese arts and media industries. Edit: Also agree that there is a lot of shoddy Japanese to English translation where translators clearly take liberties they probably shouldn't for reasons that have nothing to do with clarity or preserving creative intent. I completely agree that there are times were creative liberties must be taken for the sake of getting nuance or unique cultural idiosyncrasies across in a very different target language, but there's still a very important and difficult process to making sure that is done correctly and with respect. There's a large distinction, for example, between wrestling with how to get across the social difference established in Japanese when you have two characters speak in very different forms(like polite elevated speech versus yankee/furio Japanese, or kanto versus kansai), and, for example, a translator literally removing sexual innuendo from a joke because they don't think the joke is appropriate in the culture of the target language. The former is completely reasonable, while the latter is a translator playing at being an editor or writer in their own right. Trying to find creative colloquialisms, or natural sounding English equivalents for unique Japanese words and phrases is necessary to retain the spirit of the original text. Using that as an excuse for grossly distoring a text because you don't like what was said and want to massage it to your liking for an imagined foreign audience however, is absolutely unacceptable, and unfortunately, I've seen a lot of it in Japanese anime and video games as of late.

Some random clown not even wortin making video of it. Great job from George!

Why is the AI voice so dramatic 😂

@japanesefromzero

4 күн бұрын

This is a good question. I tried to get one that conveyed his annoyance at my video and that was the one I selected.

Why is this video in 15 fps

@japanesefromzero

4 күн бұрын

Cuz I suck at my setup! Also, it's too late to fix.

@garyc6183

3 күн бұрын

@@japanesefromzero 🤣🤣🤣

And it's been recently found out that some localizers have been *deliberately* translating things wrong . . . in order to push their own political agendas - which is why Japanese anime companies are now using AI, instead. And I don't blame them.

@southcoastinventors6583

4 күн бұрын

Recently been going on since the beginning. In AI we trust 🤖

@hananokuni2580

3 күн бұрын

I think that human-assisted AI translation is the way to go, at least until AI can hit the mark every time on idiomatic expressions and context assessment.

I am not fluent in Japanese but I have worked through the first 2 books “from zero to hero”. For the longest time Japanese translations in anime was terrible at best. Both the voice actors or the subtitles. At times fan subtitles were the preferred way to watch anime. As it got more popular the translations got better but my friends who were fluent preferred the Japanese audio. Now the translations have been going down hill since the translators now have an agenda and push it into the story even though the original Japanese does not contain any of the agenda storyline.

@spiritsplice

3 күн бұрын

Japanese audio is better due to the acting. Dub VAs are always terrible and sound like they have never read the before, and are reading it while in the toilet.