Want to find out more about the Minoans? Our friends over at history hit have a great video on the subject- access.historyhit.com/videos/in-search-of-the-minoans -- use the code 'Odyssey' to get a discount off your History Hit subscription! bit.ly/3AQ8pPJ

@qaidikramuddin

Жыл бұрын

Some advice. It would have been better not to clickbait.

@julanmatthews7473

Жыл бұрын

The snake queen can be traced to the ancient Mayan snake goddess from Orion and queen of the Amazonians. Her history was erased after battling Alexander the great. Cortez found her palace in the mountains of southern Baja Mexico according to his diary.

@gelisgeo1309

Жыл бұрын

"Stupid propagandist video '. Most of what you say are lies or half-truths. Example: There are intact paintings and frescoes that inspired the restoration of the damaged ones. They are not arbitrary depictions. The gold objects and most of the objects have been dated and are exactly the same those found decades later in Crete....

@julanmatthews7473

Жыл бұрын

I'm not much one for words but what I say is true. We are all trying to put the puzzle together as a universal family. What was taught to us as youth is always changing with new information. I Have spent many years in greece exploring the cyclades especially Amorgos. I will tell you this the information you need can be found in La Paz, Mexico. It's being hidden from those who only follow academia. One must understand the symbols of the brotherhood.

@julanmatthews7473

Жыл бұрын

After thinking more about your reply I must say this. I do not think history as a national pride. My expertise is what some refer to as pre history, the history as a universal planet. If you choose to take my information to expand your understanding of our history is your choice. I will tell you if you haven't studied the true history of the Americas you are missing a huge piece of the puzzle. Languages, plants and the stars hold the key. They found the ancient city of Aslan, many years ago, this was home to the sea peoples. They were Amazonian warriors of great beauty and strength. The had ancient bull rinks just like Greece. The snake goddess Known as Calafia was who California was named. Also root word for polycala, the good one. Unfortunately she was demonized in Europe for her success against Christians. She was then put in our history as Madusa. I would also suggest you look at the Ancient Ramuri tribe that are very similar to the Cretan runners of ancient times. They have kept the language and are slowely exposing themselves after hiding for centuries within the Sierra Nevada mountains Anyhow, usually this information is met with contempt or deaf ears and not with curiosity. So however you take this will determine if you search for truth or National pride. I however sincerely hope this will help you.

Not sure why you chose such a misleading clickbait title for what seems like a nuanced and in-depth quality documentary. The video title implies the entire Minoan civilization was "faked" when the evidence, as shown in the video, merely indicates that some details and finds were interpreted and reconstructed a little too freely by Evans and co, somewhat clouding our perception of what they were like.

@mattrange5439

Жыл бұрын

Thank you..having no idea of the specific subject, i.e. the specific allegedly "fake" civilization being discussed, I nevertheless caught the unmistakable stench of clickbait simply from that title. Thank you for saving our time.

@maisondusuave

Жыл бұрын

Phaistos Disc is fake. They will not allow scientific analysis of it.

@neva_nyx

Жыл бұрын

Appears accurate to me considering more than one person created artifacts new from different sources.

@ninjadodovideos

Жыл бұрын

@@mattrange5439 Well that's just it, the actual content of the video is good and worth watching. It's just the title that's misleading.

@curtiswebb8135

Жыл бұрын

Yep...Correct

At the 33:23 point, I find Jerome Eisenberg's criticism extremely dubious. And even stupid. He said: "This inscription basically goes from right-to-left, as in Egyptian hieroglyphs, on the other hand Minoan script Linear A and Linear B, is read from left-to-right." This is an obviously ridiculous statement. The symbols are completely undeciphered, so even if it was written on a square or rectangular shape, it's impossible to know from which direction it was read, and even more importantly, the symbols are on a circular DISC, so no matter how it was read, it can't be read from left-to-right NOR from right-to-left. Text in a spiral can only ever be read from either the center spiraling outwards, or from the edge spiraling inwards. It means the reader has no choice but to read it in all four directions (up/left/down/right, or vice versa) in a repeated pattern as the reader follows it's circular, spiraling path. Going clockwise or counterclockwise within a spiral is neither from the left nor from the right, because the "direction" you start from will only ever be from the center or from the edge. And there is no way to know where the Minoans started! Not unless and until someone discovers a "Rosetta Stone" type of object which includes both this unknown language and some known language, will we ever know what this disc says, or whether the spiral text should be read clockwise or counterclockwise. I don't know whether that particular disc is a forgery like the ivory figurine or not, but that right-to-left argument is not a good one.

@PSDuck216

Жыл бұрын

Ancient Egyptian is a wonderful language that can be written (and read) left yo right, right to left, and top down. A very flexible way of writing.

@anonyarena

Жыл бұрын

@@PSDuck216 Yes, now that you mention it, I do recall reading that somewhere. Thanks for pointing that out!

@anonyarena

Жыл бұрын

@tst ccnt Well, now you're conflating two vastly different circumstances. Yes, it is possible for a clay tablet to survive a fall into soft soil...if it indeed ever did "fall" and wasn't just always PLACED in the ground intentionally, considering it's undeciphered and therefore have no reason to assume it wasn't intentionally buried. Wouldn't it be a hoot if it were finally deciphered and it reads something like "we bury this offering in the moist soil to appease the goddess of mother earth, so that her soil brings forth fruit" or something like that? ...And, it is also equally possible for paper to go flying out of the airplanes after an impact and is therefore propelled AWAY from any fires that might destroy it. .Especially if you know the background on which passports were recovered and how. Only four of the 19 hijackers' passports have survived in whole, or only partially burned. Two were recovered from the crash site of in the field Pennsylvania (as were many other passports and personal affects of other passengers and flight crew.) One passport belonging to a hijacker on American Airlines flight 11 was found outside on the sidewalk shortly before the World Trade Center towers collapsed. A fourth passport was recovered from luggage that accidentally didn't even make it from a Portland to Boston flight, onto the connecting flight of American Airlines 11; so that one never even came close to any fire. In the grand scheme of things, when you're talking about only three out of a potential eighteen passports surviving a fire, that is not what anyone would call remarkably against the odds.

@anonyarena

Жыл бұрын

@tst ccnt I don't think they were talking about Zeus, but the father of Zeus; Cronus the Titan, who was himself the son of Uranus and Gaia, and who was one of the Titans overthrown by Zeus and his brother Gods. Zeus drew lots with his brothers Poseidon and Hades, and won the privilege to cut up his father Cronus, and throw his remains into the pit of Tartarus. "The father of the Gods" literally refers to the Titan who fathered the Gods.

@anonyarena

Жыл бұрын

@tst ccnt I also found the "gloved hand" to be not very compelling. Sometimes a hand is just a hand. You are correct, prehistoric people had been putting their hands onto cave walls since the Neolithic age, so the image of a hand is not fantastic evidence of anything in particular. We all have hands.

Most archaeological history is based on the beliefs of the peoples finding it. I have seen too many people just assume that a find has a religious purpose or that an item is ceremonial. Not everything is religious or ceremonial, it could be a toy for all the information we have at the time of finding the item. We need to stop thinking like a theologian and just start looking at the items with completely open minds.

@cattymajiv

2 ай бұрын

And you are an expert on this because you watched some videos?! 🤣😂🤣😂🤣 You have "seen" nothing whatsoever. At most you heard what a narrator said, which they read, and was written by a script writer. Neither of those 2 have "seen" anything either. The script would be written with material provided by an expert, but for anyone to say they could get any idea how the hypothesis were formed from that, or even if they had spoken with that expert, is RIDICULOUS! And so is your statement. It goes without saying that all theories on what the use is of any found item or place are ALL just hypotheses, as every single expert and student knows. But you are not even a student, so don't pretend to be an expert. There are few things in this world as flexible as the hypotheses of archeologists and historians. They are the FIRST ones to admit that they don't know, unless they have found written proof. So you need to discard the rhetoric you got from other KZread commentors, and possibly from frauds like Graham Hancock, and learn some real history from real historians and archeology, and stop making assumptions based on crap from other people who also know little or nothing.

@dp6003

Ай бұрын

I think your response to Rebecca was somewhat harsh, seeing she was trying to make an observation And was only in the end seeking an open mind Historians, geologists and archaeologists seems to be a privileged and untouchable Breed, unmovable and mostly selfish shutdown artists, they shut you down and listen to nobody Even if you prove they’re dumb hypotheses wrong As for written knowledge there is plenty of that around whereas the so-called experts ignore I’m here on KZread as you are so what are we.

@panagiotis7946

3 күн бұрын

@@cattymajiv Of the ancient languages, only Greek and Latin are written in a regular alphabet and have advanced grammar and syntax Therefore, to this day, they read clearly. All other cultures had no alphabet and had syllabic systems such as cuneiform or hieroglyphs whose pronunciation we do not know from the Hittite Sumerian writings and beyond no one knows the sound of this language and the structure of grammar and syntax we read with language models what we wish 1. we cannot understand Etruscan scripts even though they used the Latin alphabet 2. we cannot understand the more developed Phoenician script in written texts from Carthage en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carthage_Administration_Inscription 3. by chance we found the written Rosetta Stone where the same text exists in the royal hieroglyphs of Egypt, in the folk hieroglyphs and in ancient Greek so we could and did make a basis for deciphering Egyptian hieroglyphics and once again the sample is too small to know the grammar and syntax of Egyptian scripts

It is funny how a document about taking too many liberties in interpreting and presenting the past takes many liberties in interpreting and presenting the past :D

17.34 that's not a donkey, look at the tail, that's a mule (and a very nice one too).

Clickbait can be problematic. Find another headline writer who actually understands its purpose! It is not all that complicated.

Disregarding the truth is actually a big part of entrepreneurship.

@thefraug3827

Жыл бұрын

In academics and politics. In free trade uncorrupted business it will be your demise.

@supermavro6072

Жыл бұрын

Tourism, business and lies goes hands in hands

@gunkwretch3697

Жыл бұрын

@@thefraug3827 LMAO, there is no such thing as "free trade uncorrupted business" grow up

@PupienusMagnus

28 күн бұрын

⁠​⁠@@thefraug3827 who is running the Ark Encounter in Kentucky again? It’s free trade that drives money toward false narratives.

Clickbait? Let's be fair. At the opening of the video the narrator asks, did they reinvent our past? The guy shown as he asks this question is smirking while smoking a cigarette. It seems to me that the documentary is the source of the title. If it's clickbait, it's original to the documentary and not the invention of whoever wrote the title

I have mixed feelings, like most people I suppose, about undoing Evan’s dubious reconstructions. To a certain extent, every interpretation of archaeology or ancient art is based on the ethics, science and artistic conventions of the time of the interpretation. So long as they are labeled as artistic reconstructions, or the uncertainties otherwise made clear, I’m not sure how much better we could do. Archaeology has certainly advanced from its treasure-hunting roots, and become a real science. The mistake that was made at Knossos and other sites, like Newgrange, is that not only modern methods were used in the reconstructions, but permanent, irreversible materials and techniques were used. I doubt that any professional archaeologist would do that now, in this at least, we know better.

@ulflyng4072

Жыл бұрын

Ambition is a strong motivator - and temptor

@awf6554

Жыл бұрын

Sure, classical archaeology has improved. But it's still beset by circular arguments and aesthetic judgements. Its scientific value remains problematic.

@nezperce2767

Жыл бұрын

If anyone is in doubt there is an easy way to figure out about it yet it seems that a nuclear physics scientist's mind is needed. A ticket to the island, let alone studying the era or scripts even by the Egyptians

@Jim-Tuner

Жыл бұрын

There are still all sorts of dubious reconstructions going on. Nothing has really changed.

@nezperce2767

Жыл бұрын

@tst ccnt what was it's contribution to European civilization and culture or do you believe that you are conected to it? Turks came arround there 1000 you ears ago you state this youselfs as claim areas as Nd people back to the Altai mountains. Then just in case you can read Timaos by Plato you might find out that that hidden out of barbaric illiterate turkish ignorance and deliberate hatred of them towards what have been there previous to their contribution to human race entrance to the scene is overvalued ( Egyptian priest words) Chabouk chabouk

Eisenberg talks criticisms or using their letters that they needed money? Has anyone ever heard of archeologist that aren't worried or needing more money? That is like the most common thing they always need more of.

@barbarossarotbart

Жыл бұрын

Eisenberg was an antiquities dealer not an archeologist. For those everything was about money. He made also a huge mistake. He ignored all facts that did not fit into his theory.

Archeology was then a new science and the very beginnings were more like a kind of race to find as many archaeological sites as possible. Something like a race between countries with a space program to go to the moon or nuclear weapons. Wealthy individuals with the support of their states and a desire for personal glory participated in archaeological searches. So in such a merciless race with no rules, anything is possible.

@Julieoscar1

Жыл бұрын

I have come to the conclusion every damn thing is fake... as you mention, it’s always a race and funding.. still to this day the elite will lie to the public and keep back important information... all because of funding. I loved going to Crete and believing the lies... now I’m sorely disappointed.

A carbon investigation towards the age of the disc can be made

@maszkalman3676

Жыл бұрын

exactly ceramics and clay can be fucking accurately carbon dated...

This was very interesting.

I wish the narrator had bothered to learn how to pronounce Émile Gilliéron properly. P.S. Luigi Pernier too.

@cattymajiv

2 ай бұрын

True, but they often cannot even pronounce the name of the very place they are discussing. These days we are very lucky if they get anything right. But being a Canadian I'm pretty good with French pronunciations, and so I'm also really bothered by mispronunciation of French names. Actually, no matter what the origins of a word or name, it shows real sloppiness in the making of the documentary when they don't bother learning how to get it even close to correct. Since French is so widely used, that is real laziness. It's not like they are very long names with mutiple areas of difficulties, as some other names are. It's an American trait, to think it's ok to be ignorant, similar to how they actually expect people to change their name to make it easier for the Americans to say and remember. In my opinion that is very insulting. We should all make an effort to learn to remember, and how to pronounce people's names.

Great thanks

The silver fox Tong in cheek attitude doesn't help his credibility. These figures, very a la page these days, are looking for controversy just to affirm their authority in archaeological studies, instead of affirming the truthful nature of an ancient document. Please, Graybeard, came with proofs, not conjectures. This Video is very well made and, in my opinion, objective.

The spiral field for text was a thing, The Magliano Disc from the Etruscan civilization is proof and there are very clear connections between Minoan and Etruscan cultures. There have been other spiral inscriptions as the video points out, such as the 'signet rings'

@stevewatson6839

Жыл бұрын

Except they are a millenium apart.

@dinok802

Жыл бұрын

@@stevewatson6839 no one was displaced or disappeared however, still were in place back then, just as so too well today.

@stevewatson6839

Жыл бұрын

@@dinok802 You know the Etruscans came from Western Anatolia don't you? Well displaced they were; by about a 1000miles as the crow flies; but more like 1500 whether they migrated by land or sea. The sea route would be via Crete; I'll grant you that; but cultural similarities across a 1000years? They made that mistake taking cues from late Bronze Age Mari and Ugarit to explain early Iron Age Israel and Judah those places ain't seperated by even half this silly claim in time and space. You need to read up on the difference between possibility and probability.

@dinok802

Жыл бұрын

@@stevewatson6839 Were do you get that the Etruscans have 1000 years difference and were totally separated (timewise) from the Minoans (or even the Mycenaeans for that matter)... they are all three similar ancient civilizations that existed within the generally same as well as overlapping ancient time frame of the late Bronze Age into Iron Age. The Minoans were starting earlier, but they were still around during the Bronze Age collapse, albeit weakened and not in power as they were several centuries prior, rather being governed by the Mycenaeans by then and well assimilated and integrated into the Mycenaeans that ruled the Mediterranean and ancient realm back then (haven taken over most of the trade routes of the Minoans... especially throughout the Northern hemisphere of the Mediterranean, with the Phoenicians emerging in the late Bronze Age and into the Iron Age era to fill in the trade routes of the Southern hemisphere of the Mediterranean previously dominated, again, by the Minoans. As regards to Etruscans being originally from Western Anatolia (e.g. Troy/Ilion/Wilusa area or near by region), well, that's been one theory around since antiquity and "The Aeneid"... some believe that the Etruscans were one of the offshoots of the Trojans/Ilions (or possibly related to the Dardanians/Dardanoi of Dardania (which was in Troad region and near Troy/Ilion). Another theory is that they were Minoans, or an offshoot of the Minoans (like possibly a Minoan colony). Yet another theory gaining traction more recently (being based on some degree of archeological DNA/genetic studies) that the Etruscans were nothing other than just indigenous Southeastern European paleolithic hunter-gatherers (while the Italic tribes were the same, but with an additional component of an Indo-European component in addition. Another tidbit of information is that there have been found archeological evidence and artifacts on the Greek Aegean Sea island of Limnos (Lemnos, however likes to spell it in English), that are supposedly very similar to a dead match for same type and artistic style as found in Etruscan archeological sites in Italy. Additionally, Etruscan alphabet was based off the Greek alphabet, this has been proven by accredited linguists (as was the then later Latin alphabet based on the Greek and Etruscan alphabets as well), and that there been found fragments of written records in the Greek island of Limnos in the Aegean Sea that is same as Etruscan. So, Limnos may have had a colony of Etruscans, or may have been a major seaport/island stop off location that had ancient inhabitants tied directly to the Etruscans... there is some kind of significant connection, but still at this point open for much speculation and conjecture by anyone, further archeological excavations and studies need to be conducted.

@stevewatson6839

Жыл бұрын

@@dinok802 The Phaistos Disc c.1450BC, The Magliano Disc c.450BC. When I say Western Anatolia, I mean Western Anatolia. The people shuffling that accompanied the Bronze Age Collapse defeats being anymore specific than that, but possibly 55 to 45 Luwia/Lycia way. A minority view, but I found that argument made the more sense to me.

I liked it :)

Click bait as fuck. Now I remember why I quit watching this channel a while back.

I have read several comments questioning why the prayer to the goddess is in a spiral? If you are aware (very surprised that the makers of this video and the "experts" herein are completely unaware of "the Goddess Spiral" very ancient. So, when the idea that the disc hold the prayer to the Goddess Astarte on top of the mountain - you have your answer! The question the experts have against it being authentic should also be taken into account. The disc could be a copy of a prayer to Astarte not from Crete but from Caanan. Astarte was the wife of the pre-Israeli God El or Baal before they dropped his wife to make him one creator God without a partner. The disc could have been discovered not by an archeologist or logged in a scientific manner then brought to Crete. It could have been brought from Crete to Caanan also. The spiral adds credibility to the find. However, the disc must be carbon dated to take it seriously removing doubt. It could also be a copy of an authentic prayer that might have been on a wall or stone? Possibly some other object?

@thelongdrag9188

Жыл бұрын

Though I have no expertise in any of these fields, in the light of your comment, it's interesting that God said through the prophet Amos (Amos 9:7), "I also brought the Philistines from Crete." That's one historical link between pre-Israelite Canaan and sea peoples that settled there on the coast. In the orally transmitted history of the Maldives, they refer to a very ancient, mysterious people that passed through from east to west (or vice versa) whom they called the "Redin." Seems to me that a lot of sea travel went on in ancient times that we know very little about. So your suggestion that the disk and its lingo may have originated either in Crete or in Canaan gains some credibility. Artefacts do attract a lot of their version of frequent flyer points.

The amount of speculative information in this documentary makes it inches away from being Ancient Aliens. At one point is like "We know the guy knew a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy..." Might as well also mention that one time when Alexander The Great was sleeping with Napoleon's wife.

Lepenski vir, Vinča is oldest in Europe..

Good ❤❤❤

"We edited the past, we started to create statues and art that mimic things that happened 1.5k years earlier eventhoguh there was no connection with us. There is no reason why buildings in Berlin, Washington, Sydney should look like Greek and Roman Temples it's about Europe editing the past" -Peter Frankopan, Professor of Global History at Oxford.

@flatearth9140

Жыл бұрын

There is no reason why buildings in Berlin, Washington, Sydney should look like Greek and Roman Temples !!!!!!! ??? the freemasons laid out all those plans.. freemason originated in ancient egypt..

@AndreAndre-yd5gw

Жыл бұрын

Peter frankopan the nihilistic professor

@KillahManjaro

Жыл бұрын

@@AndreAndre-yd5gw He still has more credentials than both of us.

@dimitriosvlissides5781

Жыл бұрын

@@KillahManjaro like what ?

@KillahManjaro

Жыл бұрын

​@@fjdgsj His point is that Europe "Classical style" as you put it don't belong in Europe. They Edited the past. Here is the lecture - How China's Rise Will Change the World - with Peter Frankopan and Akala. start watching from 13 min in.

Why with the clickbait?

Did somebody read The Secret of Crete (Wohin der Stier Europa Trug) by H.G. Wunderlich? It sounds like you are catching on after about sixty years.

@charlesfenwick6554

Жыл бұрын

Wunderlich's absurd thesis was that the Minoan palaces were burial sites even though human remains were never found in them.

@zeideerskine3462

Жыл бұрын

@@charlesfenwick6554 yes. Evans's equally absurd thesis was that it was a palace for the living. Actually, Wunderlich makes more sense because he is as an architect familiar with the construction materials and and geology. I may not agree a hundred percent with him, however, the palace hypothesis is untenable and basically everything Evans concluded was wishful thinking. Maybe we will get some real analysis sometime soon.

@charlesfenwick6554

Жыл бұрын

It is not just Evan's theory but but that of all archaeologists who have excavated in Crete or studied the evidence of Minoan artefacts up to the present day. Actually some scholars have speculated that the palaces might have been religious centers as well as habitations but Wunderlich's ideas have never been taken seriously or even considered worthy of discussion.

@zeideerskine3462

Жыл бұрын

@@charlesfenwick6554 I just happen to believe that they are as full of BS as the generations of "American archeologists" that forced the Clovis First view on the world.

It's quite clear Cretian culture was ended in history by a volcanic eruption nearby on a small island (1400 BC) burning the overgrowth and stock on the island which was followed by a tsunami, drowning it/ in combination with a brooding political conflict between young men being ruled by some powerfull women, they had more than enough of, not wanting to reconstruct the same culture afterwards. So, unless archeologists have not been playing attention, there IS no mystery to be sold.

@panagiotis7946

3 күн бұрын

1600 B:C:

Today, I had a test about this video, but I couldn’t do it. So I watch again

Good day: Interesting analysis, a couple of question, sprout into my mind: Why not take into consideration the contemporary Island of Thera's culture, as a reference for the analysis? The writing is backwards, and apparently a prayer. Did anyone consider it a seal in itself? No mention to the importance of Crete as the main source of copper in the bronze age; which justifies its development as a commercial hub.

Odyssey does not deserve the name !!!

Saw Arthur Evans work at Knossos on a school cruise trip age 16 and was horrified by the crude ' reconstructions'. The standard was jarring and clearly 'wrong'.

@davematkins9384

Жыл бұрын

So you're like 125+ yrs old?

@charlesfenwick6554

Жыл бұрын

No one claims that his reconstructions were exact.

@supermavro6072

Жыл бұрын

@@davematkins9384 Greece is only 200 years old

@cattymajiv

2 ай бұрын

@@supermavro6072 No. Only the modern state of Greece is that young.

@supermavro6072

2 ай бұрын

@@cattymajiv ancient greeks are gyptians

Damm good video 2 very big thumbs up

@TMPOUZI

Жыл бұрын

a good propaganda video for sure

@ninjadodo - Yes, I agree that the title could be somehow 'misleading'. You do understand, however, that the discover of even one little fake something (in these case not so little) brings a big cloud of doubt over the genuinity of other 'findings' there. The existence of the Minoan civilization, in this case, is not being doubted. It is the "cenery of the crime". There is a saying there: "Once thief, always thief". You can't really, before thorough analyses, be sure how many more 'findings' were implanted there by unscrupulous people so that those could yield them recognition, titles and wealth...

@TMPOUZI

Жыл бұрын

the problem is that the video is too speculative, offering no good explanation on why this disc might be fake, nor a single peace of evidence to supprt such claim. And they're caught making lies too. For example the deconstruction of the Knossos frescos wasn't out of pure imagination as the video states, but it was influenced by other peaces of frescos found there or in other sites. It was a puzzle for sure, but nowhere near what the narator implies to be.

@supermavro6072

9 ай бұрын

@@TMPOUZI nah, but I am sure the fresco was based on AfroTurks who came here in 1923 population exchange

Without venturing an opinion on the authenticity of the Phaistos Disk, is there any discussion of why the writing is in a spiral? That method would seem to make both writing and reading a document much more difficult than just straight lines. Are there any other writing systems (ancient or modern) that are written in a spiral fashion?

@terryhunt2659

Жыл бұрын

Specifically in the Minoan context, since the discovery of the disc, some pieces of roughly contemporary jewellery, notably a pair of earrings, have been found with some of the symbols in a similar spiral layout - it may have been used only on particular artifacts for design reasons rather than generally, and sadly we still don't know what the Phaestos disc was actually for. (My wild guesses are that (a) it was a discarded trial piece made by an apprentice and (b) it was an aide memoire for a story, involving a "knight", a "lady", a "merchant" and a "squire or slave messenger.") Putting on my tall pointy hat, there may be a magical implication to the spiral having been written proceeding inwards, rather that from the middle outwards, which would have been easier. To my knowledge, all other examples of these symbols so far discovered have been very short, so spirality does not arise. Elsewhere, a few of the Scandinavian runic stones approach a spiral design, where the inscription has gone all the way around the periphery of the face and been continued a little way into a second inner circuit. This may also apply to some of the Pictish stones, but I don't specifically remember seeing any examples that do.

@academicant6438

Жыл бұрын

@@terryhunt2659 This is the kind of comment I enjoy reading, from an informed, intelligent person with a good attitude.

@hugodudes5547

Жыл бұрын

The "spiral shape writing" is a subject partially treated in the movie "Arrival". . . Spoilers In the movie, the ET use a "spiral" language, with no beginning nor end, it had to be understood as a whole, I think. Considering the existence of differents concepts in language, the movie uses that theory to make the ET being able to see time as their language, granting them the capacity of seeing the future.

@tassia1954

Жыл бұрын

@@terryhunt2659 only the Scandinavian runic was some thousands of years later !

@trevorjames9366

Жыл бұрын

the ancient mesiptamians used something called cylinder seals- round barrel shaped with some sorr of scene or writing- when rubbed on a clay pad it becomes a written block

Archeology is practiced by humans - fallible -.

@waynemarvin5661

Жыл бұрын

Humans. They're the Worst!

Great video

"Draw'ring" - oh dear!

It's dubious that the director of the Heraklion Archeological Museum would tell Eisenberg that they don't want to discover whether it's authentic or not as it would turn away tourists. That's bullsh*t. He lied. Also, the disc is NOT the main attraction. I was just there. The disc was ignored by the visitors and is not promoted in any promotional material.

⚖️ Creating a fake artifact by a trained Archaeologist would, at minimum, involve an effort for the piece to appear Antique, and "relative to it's site location". Thus, the piece would not ever have a risk factor of being "overly pristine". I am far more confident of these basic points than I could be if the Artifact being found insitu in premium condition. My discernment suggests that the Ego of "the Expert" aka "Internationally Renowned Specialist" of Antique Artifacts "to be far more prevalent" than "the Italian Archaeologist" that is credited with the find. The details mentioned regarding "sharp line" merely is an opinion, and it doesn't take into consideration that the piece was pending completion, packed in a protective wrapping/straw and cloth, a final buffing or inlaying into a frame or like. The review by the "Renowned Specialist " does not meet the necessary "preponderance of evidence" (the Standard I use to determine a more ethical decision), the evidence necessary for a Judge, Court, to deem the piece as a forgery. It is always difficult, often impossible, to discern Behaviors, Actions, post era. Judgemental is never acceptable and Judging is for those trained to do so, using Legal Precedence, the actions are held to the laws, for the decision. ⚖️ The documentary continues to offer observation of the "Renowned Specialist", his "behavior continues to present an abundance of Ego". It is up to those whom control the position for making the decision. I'm satisfied Disc is acceptable vs the Expert's review. That's just 1 perspective. Beth Bartlett Sociologist/Behavioralist and Historian

Turkish propaganda. Turkey has an interesr in the Greek islands.

1927 Harmsworth Universal encyclopedia Britannica Arthur Evans received money from the British Museum to cover up a preculture to the Minoans 20 feet below the palace floor. Evans was in a hurry to rebuild the palace complex using concrete. The news papers in the day were critical about Evans methods,

All these puzzles are easily explained, it amazes me all that study Can’t bring them a solution , it’s coming soon

So Luigi Pennier also forged his own genealogy? There are no intact genealogies going back to Roman times. Perhaps the narrator was referring to Renaissance aristocrats. "The doors and ceilings were made of wood." Yes--- and the furniture, and some rooms may have been paneled as they were in castles during a later epoch. In any event, it seems unlikely (with their love of color) they were living in rooms with exposed interior rock walls. Likely at least, the walls were rendered.

@gamerk1625

Жыл бұрын

There are no intact genealogies going back to Roman times? That's a bold claim , when there is a direct DNA study connecting modern Armenians to the Kingdom of Urartu.

@adahbafa22

Жыл бұрын

The word "Roman" doesn't have to imply ancient Rome, Romans still exist today... they live in Rome. It's obvious that the documentary wasn't talking about ancient Rome because it says "of French origin" (or something like that) and France is post-ancient Roman.

Poor Minoans are turning in their graves.

How about the Celts

Banished to the archives where all the other hidden history is being held out of site

I love the smell of revisionism in the morning.

@massimosquecco8956

Жыл бұрын

I don't!

@supermavro6072

Жыл бұрын

You mean the thing they were doing for the past 200 years

Who assigned Religion to Bull Jumping? How is it proven? *(Do the Matadors of Spain do that for a Religious Purpose?)*

up next: was Pompeii a hoax?

Yep always thought the disk was just wrong . 😂

@TMPOUZI

Жыл бұрын

Do you have evidence? because the video is not presenting any

Malaria on Crete?

EVEN KING TUTS TREASURE WAS A PRIVATE COLLECTION ON DISPLAY. and they told us they beat the tomb robbers

Sir Arthur as depicted reminds me of a non-bald, non-tubby Poirot!

Everything is theory until proven otherwise

thats a very misleading title you gave there.

This fascinates me as a Classicist. I like the Ancient history and culture of Ancient Greece.

@archie1554

Жыл бұрын

ancient fake pseudo history invented by the Bavarian monarchy who stole this land from the ottomans

@gamerk1625

Жыл бұрын

Look into the Kingdom of Urartu .. and Ur .. where the genetics of Europe came from .

@EdwardTaylor448

Жыл бұрын

No it's not fake because the ottoman empire did not exist in the ancient times and The Minoan civilization was real but that name was given to the civilization by Arthur Evans so they don't know what the civilization was actually called.

@gamerk1625

Жыл бұрын

@tst ccnt snake people... okay buddy.. real tangible evidence... Im talking real ancient DNA we have found and studied .

@mr.x653

Жыл бұрын

The Minoans were not ancient Greeks

There is one important omission here concerning Phaistos disc: was ever carbon-14 dating or optically stimulated luminescence performed on it?

@thiloreichelt4199

Жыл бұрын

Carbon dating clay is not possible, it contains no organic matter. Stimulated luminescence was invented long after the discos was unearthed, which has been subject to light for many years now.

@gailascari

Жыл бұрын

No modern technology research has been allowed on the disc

@supermavro6072

Жыл бұрын

@@gailascari Because, it's fake and is only 200 years old. That's why they don't allow any scientific investigation. Also many of these so called "Ancient relics" in greece are extremely young.

Civilisaion of Mino dinasty is not fake but it was far from being first, its just a colony of Vinchan civilisation which is not even the oldest, oldest one is Civilisation of Lepenski Vir which gave birth to all after last ice age

@lukassriekstins9441

Жыл бұрын

I will start by saying I have very little knowledge of Vinča culture (which is what I’m assuming you are referring to), however I find it highly unlikely that the Minoans were in any way a’ colony’ of it. It is wideley accepted that the first people crossed from Africa into Crete at around 12 000 BC, that is many centuries before it. Minoan culture has far more links to Egypt, as well as the Cycladic islands, than it ever would Vinča through their geographical proximity alone. Vinča would be far more likely to have some sort of an influence on the Myceneans, but again, who can say. And to correct your statement regarding Lepinski Vir, it may be so in Europe, but the actual oldest known relic of a civilisation would be Gobekli Tepe.

What do you mean by european?

Evans and his ilk can be faulted for being normal scholars in the era of late Romanticism, when truth was an unpleasant word and fame was what it is today, and still had a national connotation. I personally found ploughed-up fragments, mostly shards of crockery, medieval and modern, in our fields for years, and I saw what time was doing to them, and so it was clear to me that the lovely pictures from Knossos were a fairy tale. With frescoes, for example, there is always considerably less than one half of the original picture field. There are visible renonces in the construction of the perspective of the picture field and other...to me, nonsense, the self-centered whims of a restorer and the shenanigans of an archaeologist rolled into one. But the public wants the pretty in frescoes and buildings, not just in Knossos, not the scratched and grubby = original. In this world, you will find a bevy of supposedly educational videos on YTB that quite unashamedly use colourised historical photographs or even sequences from feature art films as documents. This is supposedly a permissible practice of popularizing (anything). TRUTH IS BORING, LONG LIVE THE LEGEND! Even in Knossos. Truth-seekers are annoying to the point of dangerous incest (especially of entertainment). Koho dnes zajímá, co to byla kravské podkova nebo kuthan a k čemu je famfrnoch nebo proč Shakespeare umístil české království k moři!? Doporučuji nový český umělecký film "Medieval" nebo tak nějak v angličtině.

Only wr1 and wr2

Clickbait. Besides finds in places other than Knossos there were finds in caves and other islands in the Aegean. Also just look at Mycenaean murals and you see a shit load of similarities between them and their predecessors the Minoans. In one name of another the Minoans were real. Wide spread fabrication in multiple places is a waste of resources that scholars would not have the time for. Ppl today need to find something better to do than to try to destroy the past.

@charlesfenwick6554

Жыл бұрын

You are right despite your vulgarity.

I'm not an archeologist but when,I wen't in the Knossos palace in Create.I was asking myself why all the pictures on the wall looked like painting style from the 20". It is so obvious when you know a bit about the 20 Century painting.

@JanoTuotanto

Жыл бұрын

Art deco is intentionally pseudo-Egyptian

@marcobelli6856

5 ай бұрын

Look at Ancient Roman art why it Look Like reneissance? Because reneissance copied classical Art

Why anyone haven`t already the idea of having the Phaistos Disc analyzed by supercomputers, A. I.? I think that`s not reasonable.

clickbait title, on these amazing caucasian Europeans... the most advanced of their time... before the Volcano erupted.... SMH

@supermavro6072

Жыл бұрын

No, they were Egyptians.

@enrico7474

Жыл бұрын

Genetically anatolian plus werent nearly as sophisticated as the other cultures of the time ie egypt, the entire ferrile cresent ,... Have u ever seen the Mesopotamian artifacts and architecture , Minoan civilization doesn't even come close to those forget surpassing them or being the best.

@supermavro6072

Жыл бұрын

@@enrico7474 NO, they are not Anatolians. Anatolia was inhabited by hittites, Lydian and other lndo-European people. This Minoans came from Africa.

@enrico7474

Жыл бұрын

@Super Mavro Minoans are genetically the same with neolithic anatolians , lycians and the other came at the copper and bronze age displacing/assimilating the anatolians

@supermavro6072

Жыл бұрын

@@enrico7474 Minoans were actually Afro-asiatic people who came from Lybia and settled in the crete and agean lslands. There was one Spanish geneticist (forgot his name) published a study on hundreds of Minoans samples he gathered from crete. and He found that, ethno-genesis of these people were nearly identical to Epipalaeolithic inhabitants of Sahara.

I kept waiting for them to insert the Black narrative which is what most REVISIONIST have been doing since 1984.....

Somewhere in all this, there was a reference to what the ancient Egyptians called themselves. It was misspelled. Those people said they were from the Red and Black Lands. To shorten it, Kemet (spelled KMT). The red lands were the parched desert on either side of the Nile Valley. The black land was in reference to the soil directly on either side of the Nile River. It was so rich in nutrients, it was black. Thus, they never described themselves as “black”. The peoples who had contact with the ancient Egyptians knew this. Just wish to clear this up. Cheers!

@wewenang5167

Жыл бұрын

Egyptian know who they are...just find some ancient egyptian writings about them. Egyptian said cretan were dark skin, or dark brown. So does the Egyptian, they are mix of black and brown people. They were not homogenous people. BUT the egyptian definitely were not white! lol

@roylle6346

Жыл бұрын

You cleared nothing up

@VOLRAK1

Жыл бұрын

Haha you just had to point that out to dispell any notion of blacks being mentioned in anything worth mentioning eh? Well thanks for that. No civilisation felt the need to mention the colour of their skin they simply created artworks in the likeness- same as the Egyptians and from their particular art its obvious they were a multi racial people! folks keep writing narratives that take black out of the pictures when it makes no sense whatsoever to do so😉

@siyabongabhongoza939

Жыл бұрын

Adam was named by the soil he was taken from so the Egyptians named after where came from cause they looked like it like Adam ! ✌️

@PSDuck216

Жыл бұрын

@@VOLRAK1 I don’t wish anyone to think me racist. I did not “point that out” to denigrate anyone. I have studied ancient Egypt for decades. The original ancient Egyptians, those who settled first in the Nile Valley, could easily have been blacks. I accept that wholeheartedly. I agree with you that no civilization (that I know of) called themselves and identified with the color of their skin. As far as black skinned people in Egyptian history: the Kushites were a great civilization, and in at least one point , conquered and ruled over upper, if not also lower, Egypt. Now, that is a civilization worth studying as well. So, no, I did not denigrate, nor intend to denigrate any color of people. It’s (deliberate) misreading or skewing the intent of other’s statements that brings hot button topics to full boil. Never my intention. Cheers!

Why fake the disc? What was there to gain from it?

@urbanurchin5930

Жыл бұрын

Money and fame.....recognition from his peers.

@richardbeltran8157

Жыл бұрын

All White Lies

@trevorhunton7526

Жыл бұрын

@@urbanurchin5930 or just money and the reason no one has been able to decipher it is because it's gobbledygook. Simply a clay disc covered in meaningless symbols made up by the faker.

@supermavro6072

Жыл бұрын

Money from Tourism, Political gain, Expansionism, irredentist ideologies like the megali idea....etc. just to name a few

@TMPOUZI

Жыл бұрын

Do you all have evidence that the disc is fake? Because this video presents none. It's like speculating Aliens exist or not

History is writen by the victor

😆 Awesome

So much of history is either inaccurate, misrepresented, fake, or unknown. We're taught to think in terms of European or Greek when these are modern terms which has nothing to do with the ancient past.

@supermavro6072

Жыл бұрын

well said, I am Greek myseIf

@Kerwin-Kendell

Жыл бұрын

Cheers mate!

@boogie3382

Жыл бұрын

Unfortunately history and therefore archaeology is a topic with potential political and financial gain, therefore such human factors cannot be ignored. Hopefully archaeology will progress scientifically by trustworthy people, without political or personal gain. This may require making corrections to the widely accepted parts of history written using beneficial interpretations rather than hard proven scientific facts. There are much more older sites and civilizations around the world which may help with that. I am really curious about the accurate history of humanity going back to the creation, but realistically I guess we'll never know for sure.

@TMPOUZI

Жыл бұрын

@@supermavro6072 You are Turkalbanian

@supermavro6072

Жыл бұрын

@@TMPOUZI We "Greeks" are Turko-albanians.

Does anyone play Call of Duty Warzone? Isn't this the exact sound of being revived? 19:08

Actually, the oldest writings in Europe are the Tartaria tablets from Romania... Which predate Sumerian cuneiform by about 2000 years and represent the oldest written language in the world.

@justanotheryoutubechannel

Жыл бұрын

That’s if they’re legit, they were found under suspicious circumstances with unclear provenance and don’t have a proven date, the discs were raw clay but got fired by the researchers before taking samples, meaning they can’t be dated directly. The object that was dated instead was in a different part of the site most likely from a different layer, the tablets could well have been planted or been several hundred of even a few thousand years later than they are dated, since the settlement was inhabited for a long time. There’s also the matter of probability, writing was invented independently very few times and almost all writing can be traced back to these 3 independent inventions, it seems unlikely that a seemingly undeveloped civilisation would develop their own writing system only represented by a few tiny tablets that doesn’t resemble any known characters, in a location far from the next earliest writing forms in a completely different style. I’m somewhere in the middle, I think it either a forgery (which is also suggested by the symbols similarity to symbols from other languages reproduced in Romanian textbooks of the time) or it was a form of proto-writing developed later than the dated wood, the small corpus and design of the tablets implies they weren’t a full writing system and were more likely to be manufacturer’s marks, name labels, or religious iconography, this is also hinted at by the Vinca symbols from later periods of the Vinca-Turdas culture which resemble the Tartaria inscriptions somewhat and were almost certainly used as proto-writing the way I suggested.

@b1crusade384

Жыл бұрын

I call pure 🐂 💩. Europeans are an albino mutation off Black Africans. Sumerian and Egyptians are way older than the oldest Europeans. A child cannot be older than his/her parents.

@justanotheryoutubechannel

Жыл бұрын

@@b1crusade384 I don’t think you’re right. Humanity started in Africa but quickly spread out in all directions, humans lived across Europe already during the Stone Age, long before writing came around.

@b1crusade384

Жыл бұрын

@@justanotheryoutubechannel You said humanity started in Africa. I said the same thing. So how can you turn around and think I am wrong? Africa is where Blacks developed since it is hot. So some Blacks went to Europe and due to the cold mutated into White people. That is logical. Ancient Egyptians were Black (the White ones today are immigrants and Whites are not indigenous to Africa.) Africans developed writing way before Europe came to the scene and Greek (first civilized Europeans) got a lot of their knowledge from Africa and they admitted. And Egypt is not the oldest African civilization nor the first to write. They are just popular because Whites get off studying them. Go study what I said if you think I am wrong; from sources without an agenda to push.

@justanotheryoutubechannel

Жыл бұрын

@@b1crusade384 I think we had a misunderstanding, I thought that you were saying Egyptians learned to write before European cultures existed. I think you’re correct in that most European writing descended from a previous invention of writing probably in Egypt but I’m not entirely sure, from my memory writing was only invented 3 or so times independently then just spread everywhere else.

Yet another One of those futile programs where you never get to see the artefacts but have to watch faces of modern actors. Why? Why?

thank you

The Nephertiti bust is also fake!

If you can speak English n French you can rewrite history and call it yours

I have no problem with declaring a supposed artifact to be a forgery. However, I want to scream at 33:38 . Eisenberg could have said, "this would be the only example of the gloved hand symbol before the Roman period 1500 years later". But he didn't. He said the symbol is only found in the Roman period. This is a problem. There can't be a gloved hand symbol before the Roman period because no evidence of it has been found, therefore when you find evidence of it before that period it can't exist. Therefore no evidence of it has been found before the Roman period. It's entirely circular reasoning. It's entirely deciding what the story is before you can consider the archaeological evidence. Forcing the evidence to conform with your idea of history is not doing history. This sort of thing is why people suspect archaeologists of just being full of BS. It's not even that forgery is rampant, it's that all appearance is made that evidence is dismissed if it doesn't fit the preconceived story. It's all the proof that a listener needs that history is not based on archeology at all but it's the other way around.

Much like the tomb of King Tut.

48:13 "no doubs this is a fake". This statement alone makes me very suspicious about him. Serious researchers always have doubt, those with "no doubts" are too often interested just in self promoting fighting their way to be regarded as "authorities" in whatever field they chose.

@rockit3422

Жыл бұрын

@Zumzifero It’s a saying. Kinda like “no doubts it will rain this whole week”….. Sometimes I’m disappointment 😟

@barbarossarotbart

Жыл бұрын

He was not scientist but just a dealer of antiquities.

@TMPOUZI

Жыл бұрын

exactly, this video smells propaganda and a revisionist agenda all over the place. No evidence whatsoever, only pure speculation

Akasu

What's with the clickbait? See this crap all the time,it's systematic deception,almost lying.Does anybody care? Well yes some of us do.Does such an interesting documentary need such a clickbait? No,so why do it.Did someone say lighten up,well just humour me.

kzread.info/dash/bejne/gp2A27ByhJXZpLw.html Seems to me that the translation of the disc has been solved.

The Disc is not a modern creation, it's authentic. I find it most relevant that *"the accusor" depicts traits and behaviors defined as those on the Diagnosis Traits List in the DSM VI, for Narcissist Personally Disorder".* Particularly their affection for "Gaslighting Individuals" for the consumption of the energies of their Victims stress, fears, pain, suffering, and for the heightened rush of the glory they claim in the spotlight of "the Drama" they created. In this case, although the Accused has passed to Nonphysical, there are multiple victims, those whom feel challenged by the accusations, whom work in the Museum, Archaeologists whom maintain it's Authenticity, and students of History and Archeology. His behaviors are observable, as he smiles in his delight of toxic ideas swarming in the Drama he upholds. "a Sociologist"

Whether this is a lie to cover up a previous mistake or a different twist on the truth for old times sake; I know the British are the most adept at manipulating historical facts way back then AND NOW.

Good video, silly title.

History never repeats itself, History is warped to the bias of the observer/writer. Great personalities of old are no more than the current strong men(Alexander = Biden). People love nostalgia too much, the exaggerate it

Egypt was called Anglo Egypt in the old maps do you see the pattern who is who ??

Clickbait

I really am beginning to resent these Odyssey bait click titles. Minoan Crete has never been fake, regardless of actions of early/amateur archeologists.

... NO. ... ... JUST, IT WAS NOT THE FIRST.

"History is a bunch of lies agreed upon" - Napoleon Bonaparte

@supermavro6072

Жыл бұрын

Not just agreed upon, but forced on others aswell.

"Stupid propagandist video '. Most of what you say are lies or half-truths. Example: There are intact paintings and frescoes that inspired the restoration of the damaged ones. They are not arbitrary depictions. The gold objects and most of the objects have been dated and are exactly the same those found decades later in Crete....

@moorishsociety7339

Жыл бұрын

Bs, It's all fake. Thanks for advanced in scientific methods. We can know pin point out all the bs which have been circulating around for centuries.

This island was home for pirates, hiding in the caves treasure

This video from the title looks like a waste of time.

Did anyone else notice on the Midas ring ( 22:55 ) that the three mountains in the center are (perhaps) the ears of two cats side by side? For me it gave the misleading ‘click bait’ title some redemption; but ‘Cut the Clever Lies Out!’ We’re busy sorting through what certain Bureaucrat’s weren’t supposed to be ‘Up To’ for years on ‘We The’’s’ Dime and Trust. “Dib’s” on ’Pay For View Penalties’ when they come to fruition and are dealt the blow they deserve. Drop the ‘Blade’ on benefit's, pay, government bloat and the ability to seemingly get away with anything that is written into contracts or are ‘squeezed laws’ extracted from a dysfunctional weak kneed and some what compromised Congress.

Too bad they didn't interview real experts on the Aegean scripts rather another person in the long list of pseudo- decipherers like Owens

Uhh, Europe's first advanced civilization was the Danube civilization. The minoans are fairly late compared.

@TMPOUZI

Жыл бұрын

it had the properties of a culture, not a civilization

You Incorrect fake