This is the longest video I have ever made. It took me a month to make. I apologize for the length but there was no way for me to shorten it down as I wanted to talk about everything Dutch did in Red Dead Redemption 1 and 2. I would like to thank my friend Sean Eazy for allowing me to use his Dutch footage he has an entire video on Dutch here kzread.info/dash/bejne/m3d5udmeqam0pNo.html.

@JohnRocky273

5 жыл бұрын

@Theprofessional can you help me?

@fatmidgetbalditalianplumbe2332

5 жыл бұрын

TheProfessional sup pro I love ur vids and I hope u have the best year of 2019

@thefishinyourbasement7907

5 жыл бұрын

No problem pro the longer the better That's what she said

@JoaquinJr

5 жыл бұрын

Dutch was at first a good guy, but Hosea and Arthur's death made him insane, then Micah took advantage.

@gottiesttyrant5528

5 жыл бұрын

JG did you not take in anything from the video or from playing the game yourself? Dutch was not a good guy even before Lenny and Hosea’s deaths.

Bill and Javier were loyal to Dutch and Dutch alone. Arthur and John were loyal to the gang itself, and what it once stood for.

@frozenduck74

3 жыл бұрын

Javier wasn’t full loyal to Dutch u could see at the end scene he wasn’t aiming his gun at Arthur and John

@Lily-fk8is

3 жыл бұрын

@@frozenduck74 That was a request from Javier’s VA apparently. He was near quitting because originally, Javier WAS indeed pointing his gun at John and Arthur as well in the original script but Javier’s VA said he couldn’t believe that Javier would do this to his friends so he asked Rockstar to change the cutscene so he wouldn’t aim at them.

@mcgoldenblade4765

3 жыл бұрын

@@Lily-fk8is Javier is probably the most naive one out of all of them. He's completely convinced himself that Dutch truly could do no wrong, perhaps due to some sort of cognitive dissonance. I think he knew deep down that Dutch had changed or may not have been the man he originally thought he was, but still tried to remain at his side because he didn't want to really believe it. He was an idealist through and through, and couldn't cope with the fact that his view of the world might have been wrong the entire time.

@gigakubica8793

3 жыл бұрын

@@mcgoldenblade4765 The main reason of Bill and Javier blind loyalty is their past.Javier was a Mexican who witness terrible things happens on his family as a kid(he tell about it by a campfire event) then he become a revolutionary fighting against a corrupt goverment that hurt his family and many other people.Next he killed an important military officer over a woman he was in loved.He escaped to America because he feared that in revenge they can hurt people he love.In America because he dont know english he soon became poor and started starving.Dutch fed him,clothed him and offered a place in his gang.Dutch was probably first man that treats him fair and saved his live.Also the gang cared about him and treated him normal(not like a "greaser").He also really belives in Dutch idea of fighting the government.The simillar story happend with Bill.That is why they were so loyal despite Dutch behaviour in the end.Javier durning a confrontation with Arthur and John as the only one dont point his gun at them.In this point he probably realised that Dutch is wrong here because when Dutch,Micah,Cleet and Joe running after Arthur and John he and Bill are gone.Later in RDR1 he dont try to kill John just try to run away from him.I think he is not naive he and Bill are really tragic and missunderstood characters.

@mcgoldenblade4765

3 жыл бұрын

@@gigakubica8793 Yeah, I know, they've both been through a lot. But in the end it just makes the fact that Dutch took advantage of their loyalty so much worse. If you put it into perspective Dutch really seems like some sort of cult leader, preaching about a free America, opposing the greed and corruption of civilization. Yet in reality he only did it to feed his own ego, taking in lost souls and having them look at him as some sort of savior.

When Hosea said, “You’ll damn us all,” we all knew that something bad was about to happen.

@bigt100

3 жыл бұрын

Hoses is always right

@Thenorthsace

3 жыл бұрын

@@bigt100 he's not real...

@edwardkenway1994

3 жыл бұрын

@@Thenorthsace no shit really?

@joelliepricefield3469

3 жыл бұрын

Hosea is the best :)

@Kelz91

3 жыл бұрын

@@Thenorthsace lmao of course he isn’t bro why even make that comment 😂

I'm so glad that out of everyone, Ms. Tilly was one of the very few who actually got a happy ending.

@mukeshkumar-ey1ge

2 жыл бұрын

And yet when John encounters her when she's livin a happy life, she *BARELY* speaks of Arthur.

@erenjaeger1738

2 жыл бұрын

@@mukeshkumar-ey1ge I guess it been so long it time to let it go. Move on.

@stpbasss3773

2 жыл бұрын

@@mukeshkumar-ey1ge she was catching a train

@loudtaste1046

2 жыл бұрын

@@erenjaeger1738 I think most of would like to forget because it’s painful

@euphoriaggaminghd

2 жыл бұрын

@@erenjaeger1738 it happened 8 years ago. Thats a long time and she's moved on by then

I also find it so annoying that towards the end where John gets rescued from a hanging by Arthur and Sadie, Dutch gets mad and says it was only talk. But when there was talk of hanging Micah he didn't hesitate to have Arthur save him

@AntonioGonzalez-jj2ps

2 жыл бұрын

It was messed up but Micah was in a jail cell in a small town while John was in a prison on an island.

@theinsurance2450

2 жыл бұрын

That was to show the change of character over time. In the earlier part of the game Dutch was that kind of person to be the first one to say you got to save him. Even Arthur character change. He complain trying save John the first time in the mountains but change completely by the end.

@poplops1

2 жыл бұрын

I think a better comparison would be Sean. Micah was in a tiny village, John was in a state penitentiary. Sean was being held by bounty hunters in Blackwater. Rescuing him was a tremendous risk, what with the Pinkerton patrols there, yet they did it anyway. Dutch said that if he’s alive they’ve got to try when it came to Sean. He made a complete U-turn when it came to John.

@sarahuher8358

2 жыл бұрын

Dutch knew John and Arthur were loyal to the gang first. Hosea was the angel on his shoulder, Micah the devil. When Hosea died there was only a dying Arthur trying to hold Dutch from the edge. But I think Dutch was already over the edge.

@SourPatchPuss

2 жыл бұрын

I agree 100% but to be fair they had more heat on them when John was locked up so that was his “justification” for not wanting to break him out yet. Or until they were ready to make the move.

going after Bronte may have been a bad idea but you gotta admit it was satisfying to hear how scared he was when he realized his money and influence didn't matter to the gang.

@nickalexcage

4 жыл бұрын

He was in contact with the Pinkertons and ultimately killing him killed Hosea.If they had ransomed Bronte , hosea wouldn’t have died

@chriskillian274

4 жыл бұрын

Bronte was the most satisfying death

@topshooterfamellc7911

4 жыл бұрын

he had it coming because he underestimate them you can kinda see before Dutch was leaving in the party mission he was giving me vibes that he didn't like the gang in his city and they have been there for long and he already like you got what you wanted and that is little Jack now is there something else get the fuck out of my city that what vibe I was getting also he thinks just because he some mob boss that money can take care of all his problems money can't buy two things happiness and and loyalty and like he said every man has a price that all he believes in money and price I never liked him he kinda remind me of lit bit of Steve Haines and Devin Weston hated both of them

@thefracturedbutwhole5475

3 жыл бұрын

@@nickalexcage you don't know that, someone still would of died.

@BreakingWhite

3 жыл бұрын

@@thefracturedbutwhole5475 YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH YEAH TRUE YOUR SO RIGHT YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH THE FRACTUREDBUT WHOLE FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11HDENJHFHBFDVYBGTFHD FRDE NDJM BNSWBN GNHJMGBNHFRB NDSEJBH NTEADYGGBEHDBFHBFWE VULRTVH BTHV4O38TBV 3B YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

He was balanced with hosea, when he died stuff just started going wack

@real.j1

3 жыл бұрын

Right

@cliffordthefossilizeddog697

3 жыл бұрын

@@real.j1 hosea was really the glue that held the gang together

@Sosa081

3 жыл бұрын

That and the concussion he got in the trolley crash, also I think his stress from being wanted by the law for many years also helped change him

@SirGuidemere91

3 жыл бұрын

He murdered a lady in blackwater to escape before the game starts. They talk about it early on. He got that look in his eye they said. He needed to be in control, when he felt like he was losing control, he’d cross the line

@OceanbornAngel

3 жыл бұрын

But he went whack before Hosea died though. Remember Blackwater? That he allowed a violent Loose Cannon like Micah into the Gang?

Man Lenny's death really hit me hard because in my playthrough, I had time to shoot the guy who kills Lenny but I missed my shot and it made me feel like his death was my fault. I know his death his scripted but the way it played out during my run, it really felt like I could have prevented it and I felt awful.

@HaughsCausedit

2 жыл бұрын

I reloaded a save to try to avoid it, when he died after i killed the shooter I just accepted defeat.

@1968JaJa

2 жыл бұрын

It’s impossible to kill the men before they shoot Lenny, even if you land head shots. Unfortunately his death is 100% unavoidable😪

@Spherexx._

2 жыл бұрын

The same thing happened to me- i really felt like it was my fault, but then i didn't get that screen saying i failed. I realized it had to happen, and continued. Hosea's death was much worse to me, tho. I really felt like he was much more of a "father figure" than Dutch.

@tunemaki_izlasitrlv6835

2 жыл бұрын

For me Sean's death felt the worst, because both Sean and Arthur knew that they were walking into an ambush and did nothing to stop Micah and Bill. Lenny's death was just an accident, and there was no chance for Arthur to stop it. Also for me, Lenny always seemed a very boring character apart from that drinking mission in Valentine.

@ntfoperative9432

2 жыл бұрын

@@tunemaki_izlasitrlv6835 Leennnyyy!

I love the parallel between Dutch and Colm, Dutch ends up really being just like Colm in the end, especially in RDR1. Just like Kieran said

@Edax_Royeaux

Жыл бұрын

Was Colm really that against the art of anthropology as Dutch was?

Micah: shoots Ms grimshaw Dutch: wHo IS BetRAYinG mE

@friccle_

3 жыл бұрын

When Grimshaw sides with Arthur she becomes a traitor so when she got shot by Micah he didnt care cause she didnt stand with him anymore So She was betraying him

@badreedinedjellali1328

3 жыл бұрын

and he says Colm odrisco don't care about he's gang how hypocritical from him

@thelvadem5713

3 жыл бұрын

Despite Ducth having a "Soft spot for miss Grimshaw" he was too far gone. For me, after that point he was never going to be saved

@reginaldsblaster8739

3 жыл бұрын

@@friccle_ it’s just funny that Dutch sided with someone who betrayed him in the past by leaving the gang for a few years. And once Arthur acts in hoseas stead, the only two that grew up with him says he’s acting out on personal feelings

@kingunknown3907

3 жыл бұрын

@@badreedinedjellali1328 I think he did care for them but as his mental health clearly deteriorated due to the stress of being the one everyone looks to to solve all there problems and the people he cared for getting killed he ended up breaking and thinking that anyone who refused to do as he says is betraying him and Michea (however it is spelt) manipulating and planting ideas in his head didn’t help

I personally think that Dutch killed both families because he was embarrassed that he got played by people he felt were inferior to his intellect.

@arthurmorgan8529

3 жыл бұрын

It was mainly me who killed them. He didn't even show up for the gray shootout. He must have been working on his goddamn plan

@ndnironboy

3 жыл бұрын

@@arthurmorgan8529 WE NEED MORE MONHEH

@arthurmorgan8529

3 жыл бұрын

@@ndnironboy I put about 8 thousand dollars in the camp funds box. We don't need more moneh. Get the boat for Tahiti booked

@ndnironboy

3 жыл бұрын

@@arthurmorgan8529 But MR MORGAN... WE NEED FAITH... JUST one MORE SCORE SON..

@ndnironboy

3 жыл бұрын

@@arthurmorgan8529 JUST ONE LITTLE SCORE.

It hurts when I see tears in Arthur's eyes as he realizes that Dutch no longer cares about anything but money when they ride off instead of saving Abigail

@johnavi

2 жыл бұрын

Definitely hard to watch

@icywinx861

Жыл бұрын

Too be honest Abigail is a big pain and she is annoying but Dutch should help save her.

@Kova-ow2en

Жыл бұрын

Though he did kill that old hag who he have a gold bar to on that island, but after he killed her he left it behind and climbed up the ladder. I don’t think he cared about money at that moment in time

@Icy-be5vl

10 ай бұрын

I would left Abigail as well. I hate her and she should be betrayed.

@scummyfish

10 ай бұрын

@@Icy-be5vl wtf is wrong with you

All of Dutch's behavior and actions make sense when you stop thinking of him as a gang leader and start thinking of him as a cult leader.

@JadeDude1973

Жыл бұрын

Did you ever find the copy of his speech at the Horseshoe Overlook camp? He gives a rousing speech to boost morale, then it turns out he wrote the thing out in advance, practiced it, and memorized it. He was a deeply dishonest man. Tahiti was never going to happen.

@haydenrhead7692

Жыл бұрын

@@JadeDude1973 majority of leaders write their speeches, whether their righteous or greedy.

@Upgrade2344

Жыл бұрын

Yes. Though he said that people can leave the gang if they want, once they did he called them cowards. He was so enslaved to his principles of protecting the ‘gang’ that he forgot that the gang is comprised of individuals that he had a responsibility to. Hence why he was fine with leaving both Arthur (Wapiti vs US Army) and John (train robbery) to die. He saw that their loyalty was waning so abandoning them meant protecting the gang. His idea of the “gang” was symbolic.

@123Mathzak

Жыл бұрын

@@JadeDude1973 Tell me you’ve never written a speech without telling me

@TheoTungsten

Жыл бұрын

The Tahiti plan sounds like Jim Jones' plan of going to paradise. In the end everyone of his cult committed suicide, but in RDR only Dutch committed suicide.

If John Marston would've went to guarma in chapter 4 with them he wouldve drowned cause John Marston cant swim.

@spikey288

3 жыл бұрын

holy shit yeah that's crazy to think about actually

@mari1468

3 жыл бұрын

Maybe he would've nedded to swim, only arthur swimed to guarma, the rest were on thta boat(sorry for my english)

@spikey288

3 жыл бұрын

@@mari1468 No they were all washed up without a boat

@scottishboah2956

3 жыл бұрын

@@spikey288 no,actually,Dutch,Javier and Micah got onto micah by a boat.

@thecowboy9698

3 жыл бұрын

One thing I don't get, if John saw Dutch for who he truly was, why didn't he take his family and slip away at Beaver Hallow before the train robbery? In fact, I don't get why Arthur, Sadie, John and his family, Uncle, Mary-Beth, Charles, Ms. Grimshaw, Karen, and others did not all leave in a mass Exodus? They could've made their own caravan and headed somewhere else.

Dutch used eagle flies to make his EGO FLY.

@eyeyrownnn

4 жыл бұрын

Good one

@coolcat__1286

4 жыл бұрын

Ba doom tss

@WorthlessClips

4 жыл бұрын

Bars

@chriskillian274

3 жыл бұрын

@Corey Anderson then why are u on a character analysis

@chriskillian274

3 жыл бұрын

He used the whole gang to make his ego fly. Not just the wapiti tribe

The way Rains Fall’s Voice breaks when Eagle Flies rides to War is so realistic. Really makes my spine shiver.

I’m native American and it always infuriates me when people praise Dutch because he says he’s sympathetic towards the natives in the game, like did you even play the game? He uses them like fodder all for his “grand plan”, even in the first game he causes the native tribe to turn on one another, like yes he may be sympathetic but that doesn’t make him a good person.

@RaptorJesus

2 жыл бұрын

I think we need to remember that we're grading this on a curve. Specifically, compared to the general public opinion of Natives and Black people during that time, Dutch is basically a saint. He holds no racial prejudice. Does that excuse his manipulation? No, not at all, but he manipulates everyone by the end. Though I'd also say that it wouldn't be unreasonable to think he truly believed and sympathized with Native, Black and other such causes at some point, or even that he died *thinking* that was still true of him. Dutch was a very broken man by the end. Again, not trying to excuse his crimes.

@Joe-ve9xz

2 жыл бұрын

@@RaptorJesus good points, I also think this adds to Dutch’s ego as well, like he sees all the crimes being committed towards the black and native populations and thinks what he’s going through is equal to theirs, all that is happening to Dutch is his fault as he is a criminal and murderer but in his mind he doesn’t deserve this, and when he is punished for his crimes he finds it wrong and as evil as what the government is doing to the native and black communities.

@SleepyMatt-zzz

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, that always confused me. I often wonder if some people were playing the same game as me, because it's very explicit that he is just using them as a "distraction". Dutch is a parasite who uses his charisma to gain favor and loyalty from traumatized and marginalized people.

@navonmyhand7999

10 ай бұрын

​@Joe-ve9xz great point, I also find his manipulation of the native American men in RDR1 and the end of RDR 2 to be pretty heinous, showing his decline from wanting to leave industrial society in all his plans for his ideal one up to finding his last bastion of hope in using these disenfranchised groups to essentially become his terrorist cell/ gang in the most harsh interpretation of the word. Committing violence because it's the only felt way he can combat the change he's watching.

“ I see a person who got found out, for who he truly was” -John Marston, 1907

@BreakingWhite

3 жыл бұрын

what is wrong with you?

@BreakingWhite

3 жыл бұрын

HA BEAT YOU TO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GET RECKED NOOOB

@Hgtgvhj

3 жыл бұрын

@@BreakingWhite Wym?

@LB-eh7sr

3 жыл бұрын

John Marston Sums up Dutch’s character perfectly.

@Hgtgvhj

3 жыл бұрын

@@LB-eh7sr ya pretty much

I noticed something on my second playthrough, at the mission at the end of chapter two where you are sent to scout out a new campsite with Charles, Arthur says "Dutch would never hide away in some cave like a petty criminal". The camp in chapter six is a cave.

@daveynorton

3 жыл бұрын

yep

@axelnygren97

3 жыл бұрын

Same here, thought it was pretty interesting

@SUTTYEA

3 жыл бұрын

It’s called foreshadowing.

@TheAbbeyoftheEveryman

3 жыл бұрын

And in RDR 1 his entire camp is in a cave.

@makowasaw3724

3 жыл бұрын

Also the fact HE sends arthur there.

One thing I noticed is that Dutch is the perfect parallel to John. Johns entire arc is fighting the urges to return to his outlaw life while Dutch gives in to those urges entirely and he becomes a monster

@TheBlackKakashi

Жыл бұрын

You gotta add that period at the end of John. I thought you were talking about Jon Jon from RDC 😂

@dennys1334

3 ай бұрын

Jhon and Dutch both love their life as outlaws, for Jhon he just feels like it's the only life he knows and excels at, he hates being a normal working dude, he never gives a second thought when the opportunity presents to be himself, his struggle is being a family man. Dutch also loves being an outlaw, he's just more idealistic and romantic about it, he feels like it's a superior way of life than that of civilization.

I don’t know that Dutch’s intentions were always evil & I do believe he loved Arthur at some point, but he’s definitely a narcissistic and egomaniac and those tendencies only accelerated after Hosea died & the West continued to get civilized. His way of living “the untamed & free” West was over and he couldn’t really accept it. In the end, he used Arthur until he didn’t feel he needed him anymore and that was the saddest part of RDR2 for me. The scene where he leaves Arthur behind at Cornwall’s Kerosene was the final straw that this man cares more about his ideology than the people who have loved him for 20 years. People always ask - “How could Dutch believe Micah over Arthur who he cared for since Arthur was a boy?” The answer is simple. Dutch wanted to be followed, not challenged & Micah took advantage of that. Whats crazy is he knew Micah was a rat in the end, he knew Arthur was right but that would’ve crashed his whole ego. He chose his own ego over his own sons. What an amazing yet depressing game.

@cptsteele91

2 жыл бұрын

I think Dutch always had the evil side in him but he had Hosea to keep him grounded, then when Hosea dies Micah slipped in and Dutch, grieving shunned Arthur who would have served as a better replacement for Hosea by keeping him grounded and pulling him up when goes too far, Micah just encouraged him to keep getting worse but also cleverly stroked his ego thereby leading Dutch to ruin, by validating his more destructive tendencies and encouraging them. It seems clear from the beginning of RDR 2 that Micah has started to influence Dutch and he's already in the process of changing, he's also shown becoming paranoid about Arthur and Hosea because they will tell him truths he doesn't necessarily want to hear.

@TemmieContingenC

Жыл бұрын

@@cptsteele91 if we had a timeline where Micah is removed early game and Hosea stays alive, do you think we may have recovered Dutch from the abyss and genuinely solidify his mindset?

@icywinx861

Жыл бұрын

@@TemmieContingenC Dutch was already insane in 2 chapter.

@TemmieContingenC

Жыл бұрын

@@icywinx861 Probably less insane

Did anyone notice that Saint Denis Bank Heist was the exact same as the Blackwater heist 2 Men were killed 1 Man was Arrested Pinkertons swarmed the area instantly All the money was lost.

@alexmohos917

3 жыл бұрын

That's right! Never thought if that before.

@jaimelannister1797

3 жыл бұрын

Eh not exactly. At Blackwater one man was shot, one was arrested, one went missing, and one woman was killed. The two men that died weren’t killed immediately but in the aftermath

@alexschletzbaum1815

3 жыл бұрын

@@jaimelannister1797 and 2 died

@alexschletzbaum1815

3 жыл бұрын

@@jaimelannister1797 jenny and dave I think

@daymenpollet4202

3 жыл бұрын

@@alexschletzbaum1815 Mac and Jenny and Sean got arrested davy only got killed later.

The fact that Dutch has this much lore and has a whole hour long video of debating whether he went insane or not shows how much of a well written character he was.

@alexdickinson9252

2 жыл бұрын

What I find most impressive about this game is how they create so many legendscertain things. Like what really happened in backwater, everyone wants to see what happened, everyone wants to know if Landon Ricketts was there or not, rockstar did an amazing job at this game

@milanmakedonski1295

2 жыл бұрын

I dont know... by the time I got to second or third chapter, on my first and only playthrough, it was very clear to me that Dutch is just a good manipulator. And the way his story ends... just retarded if you ask me.

@ButtermanYT

2 жыл бұрын

I am infact a great character. Thank you for the compliment friendo

@oldarthurmorgan6319

2 жыл бұрын

@@ButtermanYT yes buttermsn yes u are

@icywinx861

Жыл бұрын

He is one of the most iconic characters

Fun fact, if you spare the guy at the barn you actually will see him again in that mission where you fight all the O’Driscolls in the snowy area

@Cybernaut76

Жыл бұрын

So if you execute him, you will have one less enemy later on in that fight. Am I right?

@Epicbot095

Жыл бұрын

@@Cybernaut76 I’m not sure, he could just be replaced with another npc

@Cybernaut76

Жыл бұрын

@@Epicbot095 Ok. Thank you.

@Cybernaut76

Жыл бұрын

​@@Epicbot095 I guess it is not too difficult to win the battle regardless of will the Driscolls have one extra member or not. Arthur is quite deadly, especially with (Dead Eye) anyway. Might even be worth the extra potential honor point or two that can possibly be gained by sparing the boy (not sure if it applies to this particular case but common sense dictates it is situations like this where honor points can be gained). I have learned honor points really are worth chasing unless you are deliberately going for the low honor based walkthrough.

@delanovanraalte3646

Жыл бұрын

@@Cybernaut76 yep

Arthur begging Dutch to help Abigail is one of the saddest moments in the game to me, he sounds so hurt, like whatever small amount of hope he had left for Dutch as a good leader and a good man just diminished

@Icy-be5vl

10 ай бұрын

Abigail is a pathetic looser. I hate her.

If Arthur had a nickel for every time Dutch says ONE LAST JOB He would be in Tahiti already and would be alive

@bigt100

3 жыл бұрын

Facts hes been saying tht shit since chapter 2

@bodhip

3 жыл бұрын

He wouldn’t be alive lol

@titekubo1997

3 жыл бұрын

@@bodhip Dutch say it so much that Arthur can buy a cure for tb and buy tahiti

@bodhip

3 жыл бұрын

@@titekubo1997 haha

@Local_commentor

3 жыл бұрын

@@bodhip in chapter 2 he has no tuberculosis u get it when beating up poor farmer but even then it's not active TB like in game theory video states

Dutch scolding Arthur for busting John out of prison by saying "and when busting John out of prison brings the law down on us? What then Arthur?" Is the most hypocritical shit that dutch has ever said

@Purplecrocodiles

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah because literally right after he shoots up Cornwell in the most ridiculous impulsive way. I honestly think he wanted John dead. John and Arthur were some of the few that “questioned him” Also, if he dies he can take Jack under his wing like Arthur.

@BenDover-lg4wv

2 жыл бұрын

@@flashfire3564 although he left both of them to die in the final missions? As soon as he realized they doubted him, he was ready to lose them.

@BenDover-lg4wv

2 жыл бұрын

@@Purplecrocodiles thats why he left when eagles flies saved arthur and never forget he left john to die after the train robbery

@Zanamo

2 жыл бұрын

@ProGamer ook yea good point. Even tho micah was new member he wasn't questioning dutch and was gaslighting his narcissistic personality preferred micag

@justsomeguy747

2 жыл бұрын

Apart from killing Cornwall and Bronte, he sent his gang on countless of other jobs that brought the law on them. I’d say he criticised them because saving John wasn’t in his interest and saving Micah was.

If you look closely during the stare-off in the end of chapter 6, Javier was the only one who didn’t point a gun at Arthur and john

@Kova-ow2en

Жыл бұрын

Why though?

@brianl1342

Жыл бұрын

@@Kova-ow2en to show he was neutral

@kingsfoil5844

10 ай бұрын

​​@@brianl1342Hardly. He still picked Dutch's side, he just couldn't point a gun at his brothers.

@DrClock-il8ij

6 ай бұрын

I hate that ngl. Javier was as much of a bastard as Bill and Dutch in rdr1, they made him a cool guy in rdr2 for no reason

@squirtle_10

Ай бұрын

@@DrClock-il8ijnot really for no reason, it was really to show how badly the gang and Dutch fucked up people’s lives. Javier going from a decent, cool guy into THAT in rdr1 is to make it all the more tragic, same with how Arthur and everyone else dies. People change.

When Dutch rides off they really expressed Arthur's emotion. The voice actor nailed it. And the animation... his eyes showed what he was feeling. Him coughing afterwards was a nice touch

‘Ain’t no one round her got 5000 dollars..’ Arthur with 15k: 👁👄👁

@raphael2407

2 жыл бұрын

that's the one big thing that really doesn't make any sense. From chapter 2 I did all the treasure hunts and collected all the gold bars. Besides camp upgrades, a good horse and a proper outfit and upgrading the 4 weapons that I need (2x Cattleman, Lancaster Repeater, Springfield Rifle) I did not spend much, as there is nothing worth spending it for. The occasional bath, good meal and a hotel room for a night, and 99 Potent Miracle Tonics.... that's it. So I was constantly running around with $16k in my satchel, while Dutch constantly complains about "we need more money". In the end, when John gets the money (his share at least), it'S $20k. That's laughable from my "Chapter 2 Arthur" point of view... (I also always use the "Aberdeen Pigs & Savings" to pass Arthurs money to John in any playthrough) The amount of money we can casualy pick up along the way doesn't make any sense in relation to the story, sadly. The easiest solution to the overwhelming problem of "we need more money" would have been: "Hey Dutch, we are in Horseshoe Overlook, I been around for three days, here's the $20k I already collected, can we just leave now?"...

@NigelUltra

2 жыл бұрын

It would have been cool had there been a secret ending if you got like 50k

@diegorincon4673

2 жыл бұрын

Just wanted to point out that in today’s money, that’s about $494,400 in today’s money.

@slojcabronas858

2 жыл бұрын

@@raphael2407 Dutch never wanted to settle, lack of money was just an excuse to continue living as a leader of an outlaw gang

@mr.drowzeetsnpclanleader2754

2 жыл бұрын

Arthur could've..... paid.... off.... his...... bounty

I think for Dutch it was never about the money. I truly believe Dutch lacked any sense of an end goal because if he did. The gang had more then enough money to flee after the bank job in Valentine. But I truly think for Dutch it was all about the rush of the gang life and once that started to be taken from him via government and his own people seeing what he was. Dutch then gained the mindset of I'd rather see it burn then give it up.

@bigt100

3 жыл бұрын

I just did the valentine job tht shit was 15k!!

@TheChosenMoose01

3 жыл бұрын

I agree. Dutch's plans of Tahiti, California, New York, Or Chicago was just another excuse to cause chaos. He used money as an excuse to the gang imo.

@billmark1157

3 жыл бұрын

They left around 20,000 dollars in Blackwater, which is money they had before it all went wrong. That's 600k in modern day money. Idk how that's not enough money to hire a boat to Tahiti.

@deadrock1678

3 жыл бұрын

@@billmark1157 It was 150k.

@riccardomallardo7779

3 жыл бұрын

Of course, talking about tahiti, australia or whatever promised land is just a manipulation trick used by many leaders through history ("have faith in my religion and you're going to heaven", "vote for me, trust my plan and I'll bring the good old days back" etc...), I think Dutch's plans about making money and escaping overseas were genuine until the saint denis heist because that could have actually worked, but after that he just wants revenge on the US government for Hosea's death and the fact that they just don't let him go, so he kills Cornwall because he symbolizes the modern world and embodies everything he thinks is wrong with the new America that is being born (capitalist corporate greed unleashed on man and nature) he lets john and arthur blow up the railway bridge saying that it's a distraction (although it's actually just a terror attack as we would call it in current times) and he manipulates the natives into waging a war against the US army, he keeps talking about money and tahiti just so that the rest of the gang sticks with him, but in reality he doesn't care anymore and just wants to hit the government as hard as he can before going down

Molly is the first to realise something is up with Dutch. At the start of chapter 3, In the mission, An Honest mistake, she confronts Arthur about Dutch, before Uncle waltz right in and Molly walks away.

@kingsfoil5844

10 ай бұрын

... Hosea notices in chapter 1

I find Dutch's relationship with Arthur to be very interesting. Did he really love Arthur or was he just good at covering it, and actually just thought of him as a pawn. My interpretation is, while he did really like Arthur and bonded with him, deep down he really did see him as a pawn with loyalty. He was just good at hiding it. Putting on a face in the form of their good times (Fishing, racing back to camp, etc.) But when Arthur began disobeying Dutch, he became more of who he truly was and started treating Arthur more and more of what he really thought of him, a pawn. Going as so far as to leave him for dead. The interesting part is the scene on the mountain. Dutch is ready to kill Arthur once and for all, but then Arthur looked at him. "I gave you all I had...I did...". I think in that moment, Dutch realized that, while he saw Arthur as simply a tool he can use, Arthur truly did see him as a father figure. And Dutch heard how betrayed he felt, in his dying words. Which made him, for probably the first time in his life, speechless. Can you imagine the guilt of raising someone as simply a soldier you can use, only to learn that they truly did love you and thought of you as their guardian/parent? And you learn it on their dying breath no less? No wonder Dutch went insane by 1911

@Humorless_Wokescold

Жыл бұрын

The relationship between Dutch and Arthur reminds me of the relationship between Owl and Wolf from Sekiro. Both Dutch and Owl surround themselves with people who owe them everything. Both rely heavily on a strong willed and dangerous woman to take of the homefront. And both use a seemingly unobjectionable code of ethics to control those they take under their wing. Except while Dutch was delusional (at least by the end of the game), Owl was perfectly aware of what he was doing by raising Wolf to be a shinobi like him. He was creating a weapon to exploit later. And when Wolf rejects and kills him, Owl is proud that he managed to create a weapon so strong that it could overcome even him, The Great Shinobi. I played both games at around the same time and it's such a weird juxtaposition. Dutch is so affectionate towards Arthur. presenting as the ideal father surrogate. But he's colder than even a professional spy and assassin. And when confronted by the consequences of his coldness he just folds. Dutch wanted so badly to be a powerful leader (which Uncle calls him out on in the opening chapters) but he just wasn't made of strong enough stuff.

@senshiserenity7088

11 ай бұрын

I don't believe this. I don't believe that at all. I truly genuinely believe that Dutch was a man that truly love the boys that he raised as his own. Especially Author. I never would sit here and believe that he looked at offer all this time the way he did in the later chapters of rdr2. See the problem with a lot of you is you like the associate Dutch with always being this man that was hiding who he truly was. I mean even author felt this way but of course Dutch actions would make one feel this way but deep down I don't see it like that. I really feel like a lot of things contribute to the person he's become.

@adelkaizbest2038

11 ай бұрын

After the horse race with Dutch, when I played for the first time and he said "I had fun with you today Arthur" it sounded nice and hearthwarming. When I played for a second time and knew what will happen it sounded more like "you entertained me today, good job"

@adelkaizbest2038

11 ай бұрын

​@@senshiserenity7088he was fond of Arthur and the rest, he liked liked, he didn't love them Love doesn't want anyone to follow blindly and doesn't treat you well just as long as you never say a word agains it

@senshiserenity7088

11 ай бұрын

@@adelkaizbest2038 well that's your opinion I believe he did love them

I think when he said "I ain't got a final plan, arthur I ain't got..." he was realizing he doesnt know what to do and was about to reach out to arthur. But then realized he would be admitting he doesnt know and immediately went back to being cold and acting all he needs is a little more of something and seeing this is also when he talks about missing hosea, I think this is the last of the empathetic and caring dutch that was left slowly falling apart

@iljaradenkovs7150

3 жыл бұрын

It's sad to think that maybe if Arthur turned out to be more like hosea than a mix of Dutch and hosea when he grew up that he might have known what to say to save that last ember of honesty in Dutch.

@CallMePoyo

3 жыл бұрын

@@iljaradenkovs7150 I think over the course of the end of the story he does become more like hosea, but at that point dutch doesnt care, he already feels like hes so close to winning and that everyone that isnt with him deserves to die

I feel like each time Dutch gives Arthur the option to kill, or spare people is another narcissistic trait cult leaders do: If Arthur kills, Dutch feels no guilt but Arthur does and won't be able to discuss with Dutch because Dutch can say "You made that choice, I did not force you..." Which keeps Arthur in his pocket

@godofwar234regi5

3 жыл бұрын

Shit. I never realized that.

@josephstalin2606

3 жыл бұрын

The weirdest thing he does is create a father/son relationship with Arthur despite being only 5 years older than him. And the saddest part about it was that he really brainwashed Arthur from a young age to think of him as a father and it took him realizing he was going to die soon from tb for him to finally see Dutch for what he really was

@godofwar234regi5

3 жыл бұрын

@@josephstalin2606 8 yrs older.

@josephstalin2606

3 жыл бұрын

@@godofwar234regi5 No Dutch is 41 in 1899 and Arthur is 36. 5 year difference

@arthurshaw8368

3 жыл бұрын

@Thunder Life lol

On my first play through of the game, I took it very seriously because I heard that your choices do have consequences. So in the beginning I made sure to get rid of any witnesses; From the people of the train robbery at the start of the game to that one guy that recognizes you in Valentine. But as I continued playing and as I realized how chaotic each event in the story was becoming, I started feel more sympathetic to characters/npcs who were affected by the gang, and ended pursuing honor - I felt I was genuinely changing with Arthur as I played. RDR2 is probably one of the only games where I actually care about how my choices effects other people even if it is just a video game.

@Cybernaut76

Жыл бұрын

Rockstar has come a long way! I can still remember how I played GTA III and Vice City (20 years ago) gunning down all the people around me with a minigun (in a manner you could think my protagonist was a psychopath) without giving a whit about the fact it would give me a wanted level. Such behavior is no longer practical or appropriate in modern Rockstar games especially if you are playing with serious intent to complete without delays.

@Icy-be5vl

10 ай бұрын

Then something is wrong with you.

The gang shooting up braithwaite manor was the greatest mission in the whole game. It wasn’t only the most fun but it showed the brotherhood that the gang had before it came crashing down.

Remember what Eagle Flies said to Arthur? "People dont change, they only become more of who they really are." I think the same applies to Dutch, as his gang and environemnt falls apart, i believ that he does what he can to try and keep it together - albeit in his own sick twisted way. The agreeable, happy and confident front he puts on slowly shreds away as his life and family and ideals fall apart, and his true instincts and reason shines through.

@godofwar234regi5

3 жыл бұрын

That was Rains Fall.

@skjor1989

3 жыл бұрын

That is Arthur's opinion though. I don't think it is a fact. I really think Dutch was a good man. No way he can manipulate and lie to Hosea that easily for decades. It is just the events bothered him, the one that he loves was killed brutally, and his family or gang were getting killed. Plus you add up Micah's demonic voice whispering. ..

@skjor1989

3 жыл бұрын

@Andrew Becker I don't think so, Arthur and Hosea actually said themselves that Dutch changed through the years. They actually always talks about, play the prologue. Plus Arthur and Hosea aren't stupid, saying that Dutch has always been faking everything since the beginning is like saying that Arthur and Hosea are just a bunch of Yes men. Plus Dutch saved Arthur's life a bunch of times and Dutch and Hosea are the one who raised Arthur. Remember All of the sons of Dutch was a decent human being. Even Bill is a decent human being he is just too stupid. Plus Dutch is too proud to lie to himself. Living the life of someone else.

@skjor1989

3 жыл бұрын

@Andrew Becker Hell no, it was not easy back then. Almost all of them said it, themselves that they have experienced worst and they still managed to survive. Even a guy like uncle would have seen through Dutch IF he was lying. Plus if you remember Dutch hates racism there is a bunch of blacks on his gang while and the government for they have done to the native Americans.

@rog757

3 жыл бұрын

I remember that line so clearly, I thought he would mention it in the video, and I think its just supports the fact even more that Dutch was always a bad person just hiding very well, the fact that there are people still saying Dutch is a good person clearly haven't watched the entire video and it just boggles my mind that they don't see it. like he said in the video, in red dead 1 Dutch tries to kill john multiple times "for sport" even, kills innocent people for literally zero reason which goes against his early ideologies, in my mind I knew Dutch wasn't a good person going into red dead 2 simply cause I finished the first game.

Dutch gets mad at Arthur and Sadie for springing John for bringing more "heat" on them. Dutch: Let's blow shit up.

@ninjafrog6966

2 жыл бұрын

*gets into a literal war with the U.S army* Dutch: how could you bring this unnecessary heat onto us? 😡

@Lightoryx

2 жыл бұрын

We need to make noises arthur, NoiseeeE

@taylorjaffe8299

2 жыл бұрын

Also Dutch: Immediately decides to murder a famous billionaire in broad daylight in front of multiple witnesses for no reason other than revenge

@All.I06

Жыл бұрын

You have to obey your leader.....

@aniruddhnaik5277

Жыл бұрын

@@ninjafrog6966 you don't get it, he was blowing shit up so that the army and the whole attention gets on natives, he was trying to frame natives and making them scapegoats, their gang was on focus from all sides for quite a time now he needed something to distract them so he thought that if he created a bigger problem with natives all attention will go to them and they would slip What didn't help was he was not acting trustworthy, yeah he definitely doubted John I think as a rat because he was doubting, double crossing him since the start like from valentine so He thought after st. Denis Bank job he saw fit to not share the plan with John and with arthur he thought arthur would tell John anyway if he gets involved in planning, so micah and he came really close as to plan, here Dutch really miss hosea if he didn't die the gang would have been intact

I think John said it best himself during the Epilogue while riding with Sadie: That Dutch was ALWAYS using the people around him, claiming they were his family to inspire loyalty, but would discard them the second they were of no use to him. They were a means to an end and I think he never had any intention of being "fair" with anyone in his gang when and if they ever got that "final score" he always kept talking about.

Dutch was always like this. Replaying the game multiple times you start to notice that he always had that side just hidden behind the persona he built up around himself. But as the walls closed in around him more and more that persona cracked more and more until he finally dropped it completely.

It also kinda sounds like Dutch is a case of: "Its easy to hold onto your values as long as they're not costing you anything." To me, the fact that you can only upgrade Dutch's tent in the camp, before anyone else pretty much says it all. As long as he's first in line, he's a total egalitarian.

@treintrien9918

3 жыл бұрын

And improving his tent makes everyone feel better so they leave more money in the box iirc. Emotionally abused children tend to try to keep abusing parents happy and I think that is also the relationship between Dutch and the gang members. I just love how this game inspires moral reflections. Something really special in this hasty industrialized world.

@karenamyx2205

2 жыл бұрын

Eh, I didnt mind that aspect. Its like, the boss gets a reserved parking space up front. Arthur also gets his tent upgraded before the others. Just like they get the private rooms in the mountains. This is just hierarchy. I dont see it as a problem. Not to defend everything else. Just the camp upgrades.

@elam3654

2 жыл бұрын

@@karenamyx2205 Obviously, this reflects the amazing writing when people can see both sides of this and be 'correct.' (I'm playing catch up with the original comment's context) The weird question I sort of have in response to your post: "If you weren't Arthur, and Dutch had his upgraded tent, would the next option still be Arthur's tent? Or would it be your own?" I don't know if Micah's presence affects this choice later on, since I pretty much ignored the camp and focused on kitting out in the best equipment / horses. The problem with Dutch is sort of the question: "Is he a visionary? Or is he just a malignant narcissist?" If he's the former, then by all means, hook him up. If he's the latter, then things can only really get worse. ...which is kinda what happens. A good leader typically has a practical purpose behind the extravagance. If upgrading Dutch's tent led to increase mission rewards, because he was able to present the group better to other people, that would be one thing. I personally didn't care about upgrading Arthur's tent, because I spent 99% of nights at town inns. I definitely didn't care about upgrading everyone else's tent, especially later in the game. I'm actually fuzzy if any other character's contribution to the camp funds come anywhere close to Arthur's. The fact that the game doesn't incentivize you to upgrade these features at all, kinda feels like a plot point. What would be hilarious is if there was a 'secret happy ending' because Arthur upgraded all the tents, which made everyone more agreeable, preventing Micah from being able to wreck things. XD

@josephstalin2606

2 жыл бұрын

@@karenamyx2205 I think people just see Dutchs enforcing of a hierarchy contradicting to his “equal and free” world he’s trying to create. In other words Dutch preaches that they need to be free but yet he forces his gang to follow his every order without question. So it’s not that hierarchies and total leadership are completely bad but it’s the opposite of the man that Dutch portrays himself to be which makes him seem fake and untrustworthy

@damondriver6363

2 жыл бұрын

Wow bro, that's a damn good eye. I've fully upgraded the camp in every playthrough and I've never put 2 and 2 together

I feel Hoseas death and Micah’s “whispering” had a lot to do with it

@Te3time

3 жыл бұрын

I'm replaying it again currently and I already saw two times during chapter 3 Micah suggesting things to Dutch at camp and if you talk to Dutch he basically says he doesn't trust him and won't do whatever Micah suggested So I rlly think Dutch was already going downhill before he started relying on Micah

@Thenorthsace

3 жыл бұрын

Where's the proof mica was the rat just a short bit of dialog at the end of the game that doesn't even say anything much of what he supposedly said. Ironically abigail shoots him the person who is most likely to be a rat.

@BreakingWhite

3 жыл бұрын

@@Thenorthsace why would abigale be a rat?

@LB-eh7sr

3 жыл бұрын

Not really... I mean Dutch was showing signs of being an narcissistic egomaniac wayyy before hosea died.... A lot of people don’t realise that.. The Braithwaite & Gray thing, Angelo Bronte, the Robberies and the whole Blackwater thing. Micah only started getting influence in the gang after death of Hosea. Dutch has always been a loose cannon

@Just_nick3070

3 жыл бұрын

@@Thenorthsace why would agent milton capture his own rat in the gang that doesn't make sense.

Dutch already had it in for Arthur in Chapter 2. One camp encounter you'll see Dutch reading his book and he'll just outright tell Arthur that he'll betray him in the end.

@lenyagnubby4941

2 жыл бұрын

I think exactly the same thing too

@SteveCrafts2k

Жыл бұрын

1) How do I trigger this encounter? 2) what's the exact quote?

@MrFusion

Жыл бұрын

@SteveCrafts2k no clue how to trigger it, talk to him while he's reading next to his tent. Don't know the exact quote, something like "I know you'll betray me in the end Arthur. You're the type".

@SteveCrafts2k

Жыл бұрын

@@MrFusion Despite knowing Arthur for most of his life, and thus would know he'd never think to betray him... Huh?

@michaelfiori6700

Жыл бұрын

@@SteveCrafts2k keep going to camp and talking to everyone. Make a habbit of it. Things change almost every misson or side content. It's hard to say exactly how to trigger that quote.

it almost sounds like Dutch was going to say "I'm sorry Arthur" at the end but, literally couldn't find the words past his narcissism.

Dutch just comes off as manipulative. Your approval of him depends solely on how well things are going. When things are happy and calm his baseless encouragement is fine and seems normal. When everything's gone wrong and people are dying and he's still saying things are fine and to trust him and guilting people who doubt him it becomes clear what kind of person he is. He never changed but your tolerance for his bullshit definitely did.

@RandomGuy-fq4mb

3 жыл бұрын

@Unhappy Turtle Maybe. I saw Dutch try to give a speech in chapter 6 where he tried to give the same leader speech he does every chapter but no one in camp even listened. Except for Micah, of course. The detail in seeing Dutch lose support from almost everyone is insane.

@Nathan_Lennox

3 жыл бұрын

Well said

@orlandogastelum1539

3 жыл бұрын

First time I played this game and I hear Dutch he sounded fake as Fuck to me. That was just my ears and heart doing the judging as I played more I started to believe his bullshit.

@j7jov32

3 жыл бұрын

That's the thing that really annoys me about Dutch, he can't take criticism & if anybody doubts him it spoils his image.

@jillreyerma7592

3 жыл бұрын

@@j7jov32 Yeah. There's a camp event in Chapter 3 with Javier and Dutch, Javier questions him because he's confused about Dutch's plan for what they're doing next. Dutch then spins it around and implies that Javier is weak for ever doubting him. It's super gross and manipulative.

Dutch almost saying “I’m sorry” to dying Arthur before Micah interrupted hurt so much. That split second of realization. It’s also very connected to Johns Epilogue where Dutch and John meet on the mountain John: Dutch what are you doing here. Dutch: Same as you I suppose.

@idrisstark5916

2 жыл бұрын

I honestly don't think Dutch ever wanted Arthur to die, he was just so lost in Micah's manipulation that he couldn't realize the truth. Dutch's facial expressions and how he stutters seem real to me, he's shocked and depressed. He's so reluctant to follow Micah after realizing his mistake. And yes it does connect to the Epilogue a lot.

@Odysseus1999

2 жыл бұрын

@@idrisstark5916 Micah fueled his narcissism. Past his madness, I do think Dutch cared for the gang. He’s just so self-centered he’s easy to manipulate.

@idrisstark5916

2 жыл бұрын

@@Odysseus1999 Yeah exactly. Dutch liked being complimented and I think one of the reasons he sided with Micah is because whenever he made a mistake or something like that, Micah would comfort him and reassure him and Arthur wouldn't. I think Micah never meant anything he said though, he was just jumping at an opportunity to spite Arthur

@lefty3985

2 жыл бұрын

@@idrisstark5916 he was so blind it’s unreal like professional said a real leader listens to the people closest to them calling them out on bad decisions and ideas like Hosea did from the start and a bit later Arthur and John in the end Micah got in his head like you said and licked up to him stroking his ego Dutch couldn’t see what was happening, with Hosea dead and Arthur and John supposedly “questioning” him he just went full blown fuck everyone else and only wanted blind loyalty but was blind himself

@idrisstark5916

2 жыл бұрын

@@lefty3985 Yeah I agree with you too, you make some good points. It's quite interesting to see people blatantly accusing Dutch of being the real antagonist when that's not true. Sure, you could say he did some terrible things which he did, but it was mostly the influence of Micah and his crazed confusion that led him astray.

The part where Arthur says goodbye to Tilly and Jack brings me to tears every God damn time. Best character ever written if you choose the good storyline.

@QuicklyFreeze

Жыл бұрын

Cj from San Andreas

@nephthysz

Жыл бұрын

@@QuicklyFreeze no

@123Mathzak

Жыл бұрын

@@QuicklyFreeze Great character. He’s not Arthur Morgan.

@QuicklyFreeze

Жыл бұрын

@@nephthysz yes

@QuicklyFreeze

Жыл бұрын

@@123Mathzak I didn't say that?

What breaks my heart about that vote before the gang set out to kill Bronte is that Hosea was silently begging Arthur NOT to agree with Dutch. But it was through that decision that was made at that moment, that is what lead to Hosea's and Lenny's deaths.

“the Dutch that put a blanket around me wasn’t the Dutch back there “ Sadie Adler

@mlgkaju208

2 жыл бұрын

"Wasn't the dutch in Beaver Hollows" partner

@hyenaloaf1858

2 жыл бұрын

"You see a man who changed. I see a man who got found out, for who he truly was." John Marston

@Homophobic_racist_sexist

2 жыл бұрын

@@hyenaloaf1858 "Amogus" -bread defender

@maximusdecimusmaridius3184

2 жыл бұрын

“Lumbago”

@aliazarmehralparslan6067

2 жыл бұрын

@@hyenaloaf1858 we are not the same

The look of hurt on Arthurs face at 47:32 after Dutch lies to him about walking away is what gets me the most. Arthur felt betrayed and all those years that he was loyal to Dutch seemed like such a waste of time. I know this is just a game but it's so realistic and detailed.

@BushidoBanks

2 жыл бұрын

Facts.

@mukeshkumar-ey1ge

2 жыл бұрын

Real sad man!

@zachh._.123

2 жыл бұрын

Dutch did that because arthur has been doubting him multiple times and questioning along with him saving john without dutch say so

@ericcanup4994

2 жыл бұрын

That almost broke me. I truly hated Dutch after that.

@EyeoftheCrow666

2 жыл бұрын

It's even more heart breaking knowing Arthur knew Dutch before the Van Der Linde gang.. Dutch and Hozea adopted Arthur as a young boy. Arthur literally grew up with the man and seen both him and Hozea as his father figures that he sorely lacked. He wasn't just witnessing the degeneration of his gang leader. He seen the degeneration of the person that he knew as his father and when Dutch betrayed him? Man..

I truly believe Dutch really cared, it really was just the losing of Sanity and the constant case of bad luck that made him become a person who cared only for them self’s to try and redeem what they thought they lost but was there the whole time, Humanity.

@idrisstark5916

2 жыл бұрын

I mostly blame Micah and the added stress of his best men dying (especially Hosea). Dutch's reaction to Arthur's death is obvious that he cared, he just had an A class manipulator whispering to him. Micah is an extremely good manipulator, he's an opportunist who only started to get to Dutch when Hosea died and Arthur was supposed dead on Guarma.

@maniatice9143

2 жыл бұрын

I believe it to be a combination of ego, Micah and the concussion he recieved during the trolly heist. All of these factors seemed to play into him becoming more aggressive and prone to irrational decisions.

@Blacklla

Жыл бұрын

I think Dutch really REALLY started to change after their accident in the trolley. He got a head injury and seemed out of it more than usual. Dutch might have been a performer in a sense but he still cared about the gang. But after that accident something in his head flipped off

@Pepe-pq3om

Жыл бұрын

Hue Manatee

@Yackattack22

Жыл бұрын

@@Pepe-pq3om what does that mean

I love this game's story. The main theme of the game is about Moral vs Loyalty and morality is what I strive for in this game. All the actions in this game I do my damnest to do good for everyone even if some play me like a fool. Arthur does his best for what's right for him and the gang rather than stay loyal and stick with ruthless Dutch.

@Icy-be5vl

10 ай бұрын

If someone chooses morality over loyalty then he or she is evil person.

@navonmyhand7999

10 ай бұрын

​@Icy-be5vl huh?? Loyalty doesn't make you automatically good, and morality neither if your perspective on things is wrong, but still.

@Icy-be5vl

10 ай бұрын

@@navonmyhand7999 You know what also doesn't make you a good person? Being manly and masculine.

@dolepeaches6500

7 ай бұрын

I know this comment is 2 years ago but that sounds pretty retarded

I don't believe Dutch is or always was a "bad guy". It's just his life style and ego led him astray. I think ultimately he had good intentions but couldn't deliver on them because of his refusal to change.

@venusflytrap9794

5 жыл бұрын

I agree! And the part of him doing a speech letter isn't bad in my opinion, he sure had some manipulating tendencies but obviously not with the gang he saw as an family through all his life, because, if he was bad all the time, then he wouldn't leave Arthur alone. So my conclusion is that he started revealing his most primitive instincts once all the stress of the situations came.

@kingvince7328

4 жыл бұрын

Well, I think that's a subjective thing to think about. After all, morality is very subjective. However, the atrocities he committed against innocent people, justified by his vision of a utopian world free of government, makes him a "bad guy". The innocent lives he killed or inadvertently killed makes him bad.

@RedMay

4 жыл бұрын

If he truly was a always a bad man he would’ve killed Arthur on the mountain

@joshblair5021

4 жыл бұрын

But he killed !any people in cold blood.

@drippydooku6347

3 жыл бұрын

i think he's like Walter white turning into hesinberg

Honestly this game has one of the best stories I've played in years

Honestly his last words hit hard when I think of how the Internet is like. People can start out as a loving group with similar interests and goals, but there’s always something that can break them apart and someone would lose their way in the process. Eventually the internet will find another monster or person to claim as one to justify their wages, egos, or their own other reasons. Some have good reasons, but others may ulterior motives.

The writers for this game are extremely talented. The way they crafted Dutchs character into such an endearing and relatable figure, it really creates an illusion and tricks players into admiring Dutch just like the gang. This makes the betrayal In the end all the more shocking.

@theRobson0908

Жыл бұрын

I kinda don't feel the same way about the unexpected betrayal i always felt he's a poser who loves to play his role which just got confirmation when everything went different as his personal script. He was a lyer and deceiver from the beginning losing his mind just threw up his compass until he turned himself into anything he hates and this led up to just caring for himself as he lost himself more and more

@senshiserenity7088

11 ай бұрын

​@theRobson0908 most people who feel that way are people who played the first game. For those of us who started off playing Red Dead Redemption 2 viewed him in the way explained by JM. Like jme said the writers indeed did an excellent job making us feel the way the game felt about Dutch. How we're pulled in by his Charming charismatic personality the way he dresses the way he carries himself. That's why those of us that didn't miss the Mark we took the shit he did to his family personal. Unfortunately for those that played the first game first you're not going to experience it on the same level that those of us who played the second game first. I didn't play the first game because I didn't know anything about the first game and what's funny is I was going to pass up a chance of playing the second one too because I'm not into Western shit like that. But something told me to get this game and I'm glad I did best decision I made.

@yaman9463

7 ай бұрын

I saw through dutch very early in the game, hated his guts all the way through, but i'm also the type of guy that hated walter white halfway through breaking bad.

Kinda Ironic John didn't want to Shoot Dutch even though Dutch left him to die. I think because John was seeing Dutch as his father. Also if You read Arthur's journal after American Venom You will see that John wanted to shoot Dutch but he didn't.

@dm6182696

4 жыл бұрын

Right. Even in the first Red Dead Redemption, John couldn't bring himself to kill Dutch.

@COOLMCDEN

4 жыл бұрын

@@dm6182696 I kind of wish now that you had an option to capture bill instead of kill him.

@dukeofdogs6522

4 жыл бұрын

@@COOLMCDEN no point ross would've hanged him So it would be absolutley unecesary

@victimizes1734

3 жыл бұрын

@@dukeofdogs6522 Part of me believes when he told Bill he wanted to save him he was open to helping bill escape or get out. Once he was shot by bills men and left it showed him even when bill had a choice he would still leave him for dead. If you factor in RDR 2 John would feel guilty and grateful for the second chance at life he got from Arthur’s sacrifice and want to be able to give that to his misguided brothers. Remember that Javier doesn’t even aim his weapon at Arthur or John in chapter 6 during the standoff. I partially believe John would have known he was being set up by Ross and try to perhaps ally w williamson untill after he sees first hand bill is now no better or saner than dutch.

@dukeofdogs6522

3 жыл бұрын

@@victimizes1734 well Yes you do have a point but ross said that if he capture whats left of the van der linde gang he could live with his family did ross uphosld that promise od course not i think he would Just hang them So bill javier and dutch would all be dead

Another scene that was very revealing of Dutch's nature was the missable camp interaction between Dutch and Uncle at Beaver's Hollow. Basically Dutch hears Uncle telling some others around the fire about how Dutch was a fraud and mocking him. Dutch comes over, all joking, but suddenly the mask slips and he threatens to kill Uncle for questioning him. Then immediately he switches back to being jovial. Classic signs of sociopathy and quite a disturbing look at Dutch's true mindset.

@Saber23

3 жыл бұрын

I agree but how is it a sign of sociopathy exactly? I’d love if you could elaborate if it’s not to much trouble

@walter2721

3 жыл бұрын

I relieve that was at horseshoe overlook but I do remember that.

@earthling369

3 жыл бұрын

@@walter2721 yup horse overlook it was indeed

@codeyward4061

3 жыл бұрын

@@Saber23 it’s probably cause he’s personality changed whitch happens sometimes to psychos

@Saber23

3 жыл бұрын

@@codeyward4061 well most of the time psychopaths don’t really have a “personality” to begin with they just put on a mask to take advantage of people or fit in I don’t think Dutch did that also Psychopaths usually want instant gratification Dutch never really pursued that

i literally watched this whole thing without skipping through it and i just have to say, this video is absolutely perfect and it really covers every single detail about dutch and how he “went crazy” lmao, amazing job

A detail I noticed early on that I finally got at the end was in the camp ledger in chapters 2 and 3. When you choose to upgrade the housing, the first mandatory option is to upgrade Dutch's tent because "Dutch wants something comfier." It's a nice detail of Dutch always prioritizing himself over the rest of the gang,

31:47 dutch was reciting "Dutch's defense" a chess move that can lead to victory or end terribly bad...

@clinteastwood1629

3 жыл бұрын

So that's what that was called

@trumpsbutt1497

3 жыл бұрын

that’s a easter egg lol i don’t think that’s story related, but if it is, then it might show that hes so egotistical that he thinks about chess moves just cuz it’s his name

@clinteastwood1629

3 жыл бұрын

@@trumpsbutt1497 I think it was foreshadowing

@trumpsbutt1497

3 жыл бұрын

clint eastwood possibly but i doubt it. i think the only thing that could maybe even be considered as foreshadowing was the no traitors bs

@pedinhuh16

3 жыл бұрын

@@trumpsbutt1497 It also shows that he sees everything the gang is going through as a mere chess game, him being the chess master and the gang being his pawns.

"I gave you all I had." and just like that. After months away. Someone is cutting onions again. Great vid dude.

I always found the initial speech of the game extremely weird Davey just died in front of them and he somehow makes the conversation about himself, another sign of Dutch's narcissism.

Dutch was always just a 2-bit criminal, but he was able to disguise it through his personal narcissism.

@mathiasstrom7790

Жыл бұрын

You hit the nail on the head. The mask that a Narcissist wears can be REALLY convincing especially if you are lost in life as all of his gang members were at some point. He is at the same time a really complex character but also a very simple character which makes it work so well I think

@Big-Papa-Smurf

Жыл бұрын

@@mathiasstrom7790 Exactly, I love Dutch because we've all known a "Dutch" in our lives, but we can also see a bit of Dutch in ourselves. Too much pride to admit when you don't know what to do. His humanity is what makes him feel so complex.

"he met hosea, a con artist trying to rob him, and dutch was also trying to rob him, and they ended up not robbing each other and becoming best friends" as all good friendships start

I think a lot of Dutch's lessons to the gang (revenge is a fools game, don't kill in cold blood, save folks that need saving etc) were not only lessons, but Dutch already understanding his true nature, and trying to teach people to be better than him. He was already the man at the end of RDR2 as he was at the start, he was just a lot better at hiding it when things were going his way. The fact that he understood his flaws, and for a time, used that to teach others how to be better; lessons which ultimetely worked as seen through Arthur. When I understood that, I respected Dutch's character a lot more.

@a.j.robbinsii6975

3 жыл бұрын

One of the more different/ what I consider a completing insight, that I've seen here. I personally think at the start dutch thought he had a code- maybe he really did..but his moral fondation became compromised through; micah's personality and tongue. Encouraging his mental short comings that though he may have been regid enough in his moral compass on how he liked to be treated as the "little guy on the totem pole" in the beginning that kept his true nature in check. -Further mental illness setting in, industrialization being futile and lack of endgame via addiction to the thrill of the outlaw life, mental illness further exacerbated by a head injury. Where no fore thought and narscacism, etc. goes off the rails and sends the proverbial car off the embankment in flames. All the while he clings to justification by saying its for the gang...much like Walter in breaking bad "I did it for you"

@aaron75fy

3 жыл бұрын

how do you explain the 180 though? nah I feel it was a gradual degradation maybe aggravated by the injury sustained in the rail car

@Enthusiast230

3 жыл бұрын

@@aaron75fy with hosea gone and micah being Dutch's right hand man, I think Dutch grew irrational and impatient when it came to his decisions. Dutch no longer reasoned with logic. And as the gang fell apart, dutch could have felt that nothing he did went right, and he was aware that the Pinkertons were closing in on the gang, so he just needed an irrational plan to get the gang out. That's my thoughts at least

@aaron75fy

3 жыл бұрын

@@Enthusiast230 you don't say, I would never have guessed

@cocob0l0

3 жыл бұрын

@@aaron75fy Sure his head injury just further progressed his fall from grace, but he killed that girl in Blackwater so either his downfall began wayyyy earlier than any of the events of RDR2 or that he was always this way. To me, I’d say maybe the death of his girlfriend, the woman he loved, is what started his downfall. If he was always this way, I don’t think Hosea would have stayed with him all these years. He’s one of the smartest people in the gang, and he would have figured out that Dutch is a fraud decades ago.

Dutch was the brain of the gang Hosea was the conscience Arthur was the heart John was the gang's fate Dutch is very much like Heath Ledger's Joker definition of insanity. He is madness. Micah pushed him little by little. He's a madman. A very charismatic and manipulative madman

Immediately following Hosea's death Dutch no longer hides his true self. Literally minutes later he abandons John at the Saint Denis bank

I hate Micah but can we appreciate the moment at 16:42 where he kills three men in three different spots within seconds of each other using his peacemakers. If Micah wasn't an ass hole, him and Arthur would have been an unstoppable duo.

@greenho4

3 жыл бұрын

*proceeds to miss at point blank range unloading at John during American Venom*

@sometimeslol5578

3 жыл бұрын

Yea the duo with most kills I bet

@Floydtimbdujbk_

3 жыл бұрын

@@greenho4 he missed on puri

@meteyuzbas6936

3 жыл бұрын

@@Floydtimbdujbk_ no hes farsighted that happens in the game a few more times

@justinguyton6400

3 жыл бұрын

@@greenho4 he missed on purpose lol

When I finished red dead redemption 2 for the first time I thought of it as Arthur being a good person convincing himself that he's bad person, while Dutch was a bad person trying to convince himself that he was a good person but in the end when they got faced with the most desperate of times their true nature came out for the better and the worst.

@Python-xs2iv

2 жыл бұрын

So like breaking bad?

@tinocabral4201

2 жыл бұрын

@@Python-xs2iv BRUH YES THATS ACTUALLY SO ACCURATE

@Python-xs2iv

2 жыл бұрын

@@tinocabral4201 I've seen a lot of people call Jesse a good man trying to be bad while Walt is a bad man trying to be good. So I thought it would be a good comparison

I believe that during the trolly job when the trolly crashed and Dutch hit his head, Dutch gotta concussion. You notice after the trolly job he starts to change and become far worse. Remember when you come back from Guarma when Dutch asked Charles and Arthur to go and find the new camp I'm the cave he was very confused and repeating a bunch of random numbers. Micah realized it since the trolly job that there was a change in Dutch. Micah saw it as a way to get into Dutch's head. It's not just a coincidence that Dutch wanted to setup camp where he hid the money. I believe that Dutch and Micah went back for the money when he got back to land from Guarma. You notice Dutch and Micah took a while to get back. Micah new the jobs would go wrong. Micah wanted the gang to fall apart so he could get in Dutch's head so he can take the money for himself. He was the only one that asked about the money from black water after the black water heist.

@denimgaminghd8520

Жыл бұрын

Concussions normally alter people's personalities

@user-hx6gs9rq7u

Жыл бұрын

Dutch murdered an innocent woman in blackwater for no reason so he obviously had something wrong with him from the start

There is also a note in Bronte's mansion where Bronte is telling Officer Lambert about the trolley job, little bit of background proof that proves 2 things: what you, Pro said and that Bronte tipped off Lambert

Am I wrong to have felt so strongly about Dutch? He was like a father to Arthur, and I spent many hours in his shoes. Seeing Dutch abandon him and change broke my heart, and when Arthur died shortly after, I have to admit I bursted out into tears

@otto5523

3 жыл бұрын

yes, you could already tell he was full of shit right from the start, changing the plan of going west safely in a snap of fingers for money

@trollege9488

3 жыл бұрын

He known arthur for like 20 years he just abandon him

@kimberlyh.1090

2 жыл бұрын

No, you're not wrong. That was the main reason I cried too. Here's Arthur; looks to Dutch as his Father and has been with him for more than 20 years...all for Dutch to piss it away for a man he met in a bar, and knew for 6 months. He threw Arthur's life away like trash and abandoned him to die alone (at that point Arthur probably preferred that though).

@trollege9488

2 жыл бұрын

@@kimberlyh.1090 i mean Arthur is dying so he had nothing to lose

@kimberlyh.1090

2 жыл бұрын

@@trollege9488 Np, it was when Arthur was dying he lost everything.

Honestly the one scene that showed me Dutch was always crazy was when Arthur told him about Milton and Ross. When Arthur told him that they offered to let him walk if he gave up Dutch he asked Arthur why he didn’t take their offer. I mean the look on his face was serious at least to me it looked like it. Arthur seemed to think he was just pulling his leg but Dutch look way to serious when he said that.

@spikey288

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, that to me shows that he is very insecure about himself, whenever he senses any chance of someone doubting him he will get extremely defensive and almost begging for validation. He truly believes that his bond with arthur could really be that shallow that arthur would abandon him, he has no faith in himself so he desperately needs faith from others to reasure him.

@Chicken_Wing91

3 жыл бұрын

He says the same thing to colm as well during The parlay The only difference is Colm was gonna take the offer

@rabbithill4958

3 жыл бұрын

That’s a good insight. We know that Arthur is (at that point) unshakably loyal to Dutch and may argue with his decisions but would never, ever turn on him. If Dutch were a healthy, secure man, he’d know that about Arthur, too - the only reasons he’d seriously question Arthur’s loyalty is if his own loyalty to Arthur was less than 100% or if there was a seed of paranoia in him starting to grow.

@juliagoetia

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, and during chapter 2 there's an encounter you can have with him (maybe a few) where he seems to be really uncharacteristically paranoid out of nowhere, thinking that people are talking behind his back or whatever, accusing Arthur of playing games with him. I think this indicates that Dutch suffers from some sort of preexisting mental illness that he tries to keep suppressed. Behind the ego and the grand visions lies a deep seated level of insecurity and paranoia and uncertainty and resentment. I don't think he was always the kind of person he was at the end of the story, but I do think he's had problems for a long time that the stress of all the loss of life and the burdens of leadership exacerbated over time.

@chaelmavik

3 жыл бұрын

I actually viewed that as Dutch being very self-aware. He knows he has a huge price on his head, and the logical thing for a person to do would be to get as far away from Dutch as possible. At that point in the game, there's no indication that Dutch would go after former gang members, and even when they started to leave much later in the game, he didn't go after them. Another way it can be seen as a person who is insecure, which Dutch has shown to be, starting from Blackwater and increasingly so as more people die and each plan fails.

I seldom - if not never - leave comments, but I loved this game and loved your in depth analysis of such a complex and human character. You answered a lot of questions I had about him and about the dynamics within the gang. Although it's a story of true redemption, it is also such a tragic story, even more so if you think of what happens to John and his family in RDD1. You did a magnificent job and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Thank you very much for your hard work!

This is the kind of video i really enjoy. I've been a Dutch sympathizer since i started playing, partly due to the fact that i havn't played the first one in years, but also partly due to the fact that you just want to believe in him. I've always been of the mind that Dutch was a good guy at heart. He saved Sadie when he didn't have to. I mean, let's face it, killing her would've been much easier to do, but he took her in, made sure she was looked after. He did care, he had a heart. But that's just the thing isn't it? He HAD a heart. I still believe that Dutch was a good guy, just tainted as a result of some mistakes and an overinflated ego. Maybe that's the truth of it, or maybe he really was just a damn good speaker

i hate that even after everything dutch has done i can’t bring myself to hate him. egotistical figures like him are usually the type of people i despise the most but i find his charisma endearing. he’s the type of villain you wish was good

@AnacondaVice

3 жыл бұрын

I hated Dutch more than Micah, I have never felt his charisma. I feel like the gang would've ended up better if Hosea was in charge

@leone41ll

3 жыл бұрын

@@AnacondaVice you really think all those personalities in the gang would be united under Hosea ? Don't be naive. You might not feel it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

@castrocuba4937

3 жыл бұрын

@@AnacondaVice I really miss Hosea, he never got anything wrong ever. Except Saint Denis job, but that was most likely Micah snitching out to Pinkertons as usual

@Nishawnsworld

3 жыл бұрын

@@leone41ll you must have forgot the scene between Hosea and Micah when that rat rubbed him the wrong way. Hosea is smart and is definitely no pushover.

@leone41ll

3 жыл бұрын

@@Nishawnsworld Not being a pushover and having the charisma to unite outlaws, of different backgrounds, are two separate things.

The reason Dutch is the best antagonist in Rockstar Games is because of how complex of a character he is

@abstraction6212

3 жыл бұрын

Its also a paradox of rockstar warning themselfs

As soon as I seen the name of this video I knew I neesss to hear it. Can we just say how great the start of this was , not only thanking your friend but going through extra mile advertising it. Just such a genuinely good kind man

My biggest gripe with the story is how Arthur didn't "PULL THE GOD DAMN TRIGGER" on Micah as soon as Micah shot Grimshaw. At that point he was in a standoff with a known traitor who just shot a partner standing next to him, while he himself was dying anyway. Can't believe he didn't shoot.

I don’t think Dutch was an evil man. He, in many ways, was like Icarus. His ambitions were too high, and in the end, he got burnt. With each failure and lost loved one, he descended further and further into the paranoia and desperation, the kind of man he taught his prodiges never to be. And unlike Arthur and John, he never got his redemption, he never got his second chance. All he got was a single moment of self reflection where he realizes everything he tried to build was for naught. I feel that is what makes Dutch’s story the biggest tragedy in Red Dead.

@kingvince7328

4 жыл бұрын

I think people are confusing a sad villain and story, with him not being evil. Dutch is entirely evil for the same reasons other people in history were evil. "The ends justifies the means". He killed innocent people and inadvertently got people killed because of his vision of a utopian future without government.

@mrorlov2706

4 жыл бұрын

He was full of shit man, as soon as things got dire he showed his true nature its easy to be chivalrious when it worth nothing to you but when it really going to take something from you this is where you see a real person and dutch showed himself.

@YoutubesaysimCyberbully

3 жыл бұрын

thas deep

@jeffreeepstein1175

3 жыл бұрын

Didn't he have a concussion from the trolley

@welon17

3 жыл бұрын

Sorry, but if you don't see him as an evil man, you are just another victim of his sweet words. He grabbed the most desperate outcasts he could find, told them his ideal world, built a nice community made of empty promises to commit crimes always in need of money, and dispose of people that are no longer use to him. He did it to his gang, he did it to Eagle Flies, and he did it to the indians in Tall Trees. He'd do it again if John hadn't caught him. That's the person he is, that's his nature. You can't fight gravity. You can't fight nature.

He admitted he fight his urges for years. His urges to be his true self. “He fought his whole life.” But he can’t get up either because it’s in his nature. It’s a paradox. I think before Dutch met Hosea, he was a heartless killer but adopted most of Hoseas ideologies. Learned to control himself.

@afggetlost1342

2 жыл бұрын

So he's technically like paarthurnax from Skyrim. They are born evil but able to overcome their nature yet there's not a day where they are not tempted to return to their own true nature.

@hinnagami274

2 жыл бұрын

@@afggetlost1342 except Paarthunax has time on Dutch, lol. decent comparison, though.

@rhameseshamilton8045

2 жыл бұрын

I like that analysis.

@geoffreysorkin5774

2 жыл бұрын

@@afggetlost1342 Partysnax never pretends to be better than the other dragons the way that Dutch pretends to be better than the other gangs.

@onizgr77

2 жыл бұрын

@@geoffreysorkin5774 he is talking about pre meditation paarthurnax. cold blooded killer dragon

I just finished this video and cannot thank you enough for someone finally being able to analyze Dutch's decent into madness. And the key hints as to why Dutch shot Micah was finally explained after 3 years of questioning it.

Dutch forgets who he is, its clear throughout the game that Dutch has been reading a lot of philosophy books and fancies himself some sort of Robin hood character, yet he has Strauss lending money to poor people who can't possibly pay it back and permitted Micah into the gang despite him being a cut-throat mercenary thief. He goes from being a petty King figure of his gang to anti-state revolutionary (which no one else is on board with).

@navonmyhand7999

10 ай бұрын

I never really got the message that other members in the group were around for the anarchist, free-state Dutch wanted to create away from industry society. They just wanted to survive and Dutch gave them way to do it when they were at their lowest.

Dutch's death is a direct reference to rdr2 when he and Arthur is cornered by the us army and jump into a river. The speech has simular elements like i "have a plan, this is a good one"

@SkatePunkBanana

3 жыл бұрын

Its the other way around, but yeah. I just finished playing that part and thought it was familiar.

@jutoa6458

3 жыл бұрын

@@SkatePunkBanana he also says he has been fighting change and you cant fight nature in both scenes

@burnedout191

3 жыл бұрын

In lore wise maybe but this is rockstars way of making a direct reference that only people who played the original would understand

Uncle says in camp that Dutch wants to be 'an American king with all his knights'. Its a perfect summary of the true Dutch.

@leehalloway8787

3 жыл бұрын

Uncle was super wise, he is pretty much always right.

@thorsal6208

3 жыл бұрын

@@leehalloway8787 annoyingly wise to be more specific

@syteanric

2 жыл бұрын

Uncle was often right

@tinocabral4201

2 жыл бұрын

@@syteanric lumbago

@findgod8730

2 жыл бұрын

@@tinocabral4201 Sir it is 2021 and you just made a lumbago joke. Please find the nearest exit.

Hosea is sorta Arthur’s father figure with Dutch being John’s, which makes sense as Arthur’s been given better guidance and has more comfortability in his character. The bankruptcy of Dutch’s character makes it so John can’t be the same.

I think Dutch was only able to keep up the facade of being a good person as long as he feels like he's in control. For instance, he killed Bronte after realizing he'd been fooled, only shot Heidi when they were surrounded, he killed her, for the same reason he kills the woman in blackwater in rdr1 to shock and cause what distraction it will. it feels surprisingly awful when you realize what Dutch is they did an amazing job writing these characters

I feel like Dutch could use Michel and Lester from gta v. I mean for them even if things went wrong they would always get the money lol

@adityaganjoomech

3 жыл бұрын

Gta 5 is literally a parody of real life. There are bits of humour in everything and game is designed for you to do as much fun as you can. So you win practically everytime.

@GlennDavey

3 жыл бұрын

I feel like Dutch could have used John Marston from RDR1. In that game you have success in every single chapter, every single mission... until you win the game and reunite with your family to be a husband and father. Only then is there a tragic ending. So RDR1 is about losing John's life, even after winning everything. In RDR2, Dutch could also have used less of himself. The only successful mission is the one where Arthur goes back to rob the Valentine bank and Dutch has absolutely nothing to do with it. Every other mission is some kind of failure. That's why the ending of the main story is such a gut-punch, even though you see it coming - you never achieved anything. So RDR2 is about winning John's life, even after losing everything. But even though it tries to pull off the same epilogue with John Marston at Beecher's Hope, RDR2's main story is tragic from the first scene to the very last. That's why the new game makes people depressed and the original game doesn't.

@GlennDavey

3 жыл бұрын

@@adityaganjoomech The GTA series is actually a work of satire, which is a commentary of real life. A work of parody on the other hand is a comedic imitation of ANOTHER work, not of real life or real people. However, a satire can contain elements of parody. For example, the movie Michael DeSanta co-produces is a parody of every bad cheap action sequel ever. But the fact he's co-producer at all is a satire of how a no-talent criminal can get his name in the credits of a movie in Hollywood just by being muscle for the executive producer.

@adityaganjoomech

3 жыл бұрын

@@GlennDavey yes! Satire is a better word for it. Thanks

@narrator8534

3 жыл бұрын

Ik they have incredible luck

I started playing rdr2 shortly after getting out of a real toxic relationship and I noticed A LOT of manipulation tactics my ex used. One method I think is important when you mentioned how he admitted to using the natives, a lot of sociopaths or manipulators will do something to "test the waters" so to speak to see how much they can get away with. They will say something very out of the ordinary or shocking and gauge the reaction, if the reaction is negative they deflect. They say they were joking or you misunderstood them and re-explain in fancier fluff to prance around what they just said. I noticed Dutch does that a lot.

@twinegarner

2 жыл бұрын

Dutch is definitely a narcissist - you can tell both in the way he speaks to people, and how he constantly surrounds himself with people who are going to stroke his ego. I think that at some fundamental core, Dutch feels like the world owes him something. It owes him money, it owes him freedom, it owes him loyal people. And as the story progresses, Dutch gets more desperate to claim all the things he believes are owed to him. He takes more risks, and ultimately risking the people who genuinely cared for him.

@uncledave5690

2 жыл бұрын

Bit late but glad to hear you’re out of a toxic relationship 🙌

@mukeshkumar-ey1ge

2 жыл бұрын

Well, lesson learnt for everyone! Thanks for sharing dear fella, hope you do better

@trige000

2 жыл бұрын

Doesn't take a mountain of effort for Natives to hate American society. I'm Mi'kmaq by the way.

@nomorecomply4044

2 жыл бұрын

@@trige000 well I mean all you gotta do is call a native a redskinned Indian that makes crazy noises and murders white people. That sentence can get you in a bad spot, depending on the native person.

I never disliked or hated Dutch. I just felt sorry for him.

Dutch leaving Arthur to die just for Arthur to survive and finally turn on him and then eventually end up dying right in front of his eyes was like God’s ironic and symbolic way of putting a mirror in front of Dutch and showing him all of the shitty and unhonourable things he’s done and telling him you failed and it’s all your fault. And Dutch seeing Arthur dying really messed him up even though he left him to die earlier on. TheProfessional was exactly right by saying that’s when Dutch finally came to his senses and knew everything he did was wrong bc at that point he most likely thinks everyone is either dead or captured especially the one he felt was the closest to his son except for Micah: the one Arthur just revealed was a rat and he finally realizes that he damned every one just like Hosea said he would but of course his pride clouds his better judgment and he just can’t come to terms with the fact that he failed everyone especially himself and continues to hold on to that pride so much and for so long to the point that when it was finally his time to answer for his crimes and wrong doing and face the consequences like a man in the 1st RDR, he instead goes out in a cowardly fashion by taking his own life bc he could never take accountability for his actions and decisions🤦🏿‍♂️

I honesty think that The Blackwater Massacre messes him up mentally. Ever since he killed Heidi McCourt, he’s felt guilt about killing her. Before that, he always took Arthur’s and Hosea’s advice.

@jaimelannister1797

3 жыл бұрын

You don’t know he always took their advice before that. We haven’t seen that. I’m pretty sure Dutch and Hosea were against the ferry robbery. Dutch went through with it anyway

@imeternxl1326

3 жыл бұрын

@@jaimelannister1797 arthur and hosea we working on a new lead but micah suggest the ferry. 🤷‍♀️

@leehalloway8787

3 жыл бұрын

I think that he was desperate to justify his actions to assuage his guilt.

@thorsal6208

3 жыл бұрын

@@jaimelannister1797 arthur and hosea are the one who against the ferry job

dude the shakyness in Eagle flies father's voice when he's trying to talk them out of it gets me everytime.

@silentecho92able

3 жыл бұрын

He knows it was a losing war from the start and Dutch Manipulated Eagle flies in the end.

@galilalexandro4392

2 жыл бұрын

Rains falls was the name of his father Edit: it’s even sadder when you meet him in the epilogue

Rockstar's games are unbelievably well written. You can tell the best stories from how fleshed out the characters are and how true to themselves they remain throughout. It shouldn't be seen from a bad vs good perspective. His motives throughout RDR 2 never change when you look at every line of dialogue he has. Dutch idolizes his lifestyle. Dutch thinks of himself as educated and free. He considers himself and his gang above the law, but he cares for nobody in the gang more than he does for himself. The only reason people in the gang think he loves them is because of his charisma and because of how he "twists words", like Bronte puts it. Dutch always wants money and he likes the ladies, like Colm points out, but only to have them by his side. Throughout the entire game he has no time and attention for Molly, they are always fighting and he doesn't even flinch when Grimshaw shoots her. He looks on all the members of the gang lost as pawns sacrificed in his moves against the O'Driscolls, the Pinkertons and pretty much every enemy he has made for himself. He doesn't mourn Hosea, Lenny, he doesn't care about John being in prison, he doesn't care about seeing Arthur die. Throughout the game they talk about Blackwater, but he ignores it and only sees anyone who speaks up as a doubter who is in his way. That is why he ends up alone. Because he sees himself above everybody else. At the end he doesn't care about the money, he doesn't care about the "freedom" (or his distorted perception of it)... he only cares about the one thing he says to John in RDR 1 before he falls from the cliff... "I can't fight my own nature". He cares about the appetites he has found after he has forgotten himself. The same thing he says to Milton about civilization. He denies civilization. Dutch is an animal and wants to live like an animal. He wants to kill, steal, fuck, swindle and lives in constant paranoia because he has made an enemy out of everyone he has ever known... When he worries someone will "betray" him he is afraid of them having the common sense to leave him alone and rob him of the only thing that makes him feel good and accomplished... a thing he calls loyalty. But it's the power he has over other people. He revels in it. He loves being looked on as a mentor. He loves listening to classical music on his record player. He loves reading, reciting and discussing books. He barely holds back the insult when he finds out Lenny to find one of the books he reads to be subpar... He is always playing chess and he needs the satisfaction of thinking he's always three steps ahead of you. Always has a plan. Always has a scheme. Always has one more trick up his sleeve. He also loves Micah above everyone else, because unlike them, Micah is an opportunist. He doesn't go after Bronte because he cares about Jack. He goes after him first to suck up to him and then to prove himself he's better than him. He doesn't change, he only develops as a character. His essence is he's always been evil, selfish and arrogant... but he also needed the words to present himself in a better light to others so that he can use them to achieve his selfish goals. And maybe also to tell himself some pretty lie so that he doesn't go completely insane... which he eventually does anyway...

@navonmyhand7999

10 ай бұрын

This is a great comment however I disagree about a few points. I think the only people Dutch truly loved from start to finish were Hosea and Arthur. At the start of the game he created a speech to lament the losses in Blackwater, but he laments over and over how much he misses Hosea after that Saint Denis heist gone wrong. Hosea is the man he knew the longest, whose opinion he respected most and even if he undermined him at times, the only one in the gang he respected enough to consider his vote at all for important matters. About the same goes for Arthur, who was the second recruit into the gang at the very beginning as Dutch's main enforcer and right hand man (or you could argue that title went to Hosea but that further proves my initial point). When Arthur dies, it nearly breaks Dutch. He's speechless, which is rare, and almost tells him "I'm sorry" (or something along those lines) until Micah interrupts him to leave. But then Dutch doesn't leave with Micah, he slowly walks away from it all, he has no plan at this point. I think from that point up until when John meets him in the epilogue, he was making sense of how he got tricked by Micah, the Pinkertons, Bronte, the Braithwaites and Gray's, how all of it went south when he was so sure of his plans and genius. Now onto Micah, as time progressed Dutch favored the more violent, arrogant and impulsive actions of a man like Micah rather than the calm and slow methods suggested by others, but not by love. Dutch failed in Blackwater and broke one of the gang's codes, almost got caught by (the rich guy forget his name lol) in Strawberry soon after, got played by two families he deemed lesser than and then set-up by big-city Bronte, all while the Pinkertons were on there trail the entire time. His ego and gang' confidence took hit after hit until eventually all he could rely on was the "loyalty" he so desperately desired and the revenge he wanted to dull out on all that interrupted his plans. Now who was most violent and asked the least questions ... Micah, his greatest enabler. Dutch never loved him like a son, or even pretended to, but valued the chances he gave Dutch to be as animalistic, vindictive and aggressive as possible. Even when his plans were so silly like "let's do a bunch of crimes and create a lot of enemies and make a bunch of noise then suddenly dissappear, it's the perfect cover!" No, it's not. It's a way to get caught or killed by the people pursuing you and the people you're actively stealing from at the moment. Micah says to Arthur, the plan doesn't make sense, but it's Dutch's plan so he's going along with it.

I think Dutch was always teetering between himself. With hosea, it was like being medicated and in therapy to an extent. With Micah, it’s like giving up on the medication and giving into the voices in his head. He killed Micah because he realized his mistake, then I suspect he went off the deep end in rdr1 as a coping mechanism so he didn’t have to think about it anymore, starting the cycle of his poor mental health again.

When Arthur said "yeah... INSIST" it sounded So badass.

@thatoneguy7024

3 жыл бұрын

I liked his confrontation with Milton on the riverbank with Jack. "You enjoy bein' a rich man's toy, do ya!" coolest line in the game

@BreakingWhite

3 жыл бұрын

I SAID YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEEEEEAAAAAAHHHHHHH

@electricc437

3 жыл бұрын

He INSISTS upon it... Insist.. Are you comfortable with this plan, or do you INSIST on something else?

@LaloSillymanca

3 жыл бұрын

@@electricc437 I insist to shoot Arthur

@_grim_1478

3 жыл бұрын

@@LaloSillymanca Ah yes, one of the greatest antagonists in a Video Game.

Lol when I went to Saint Denis with Dutch and it showed the gloomy shot of the factories it kinda backfired because the wether was super clear and sunny and there was a double rainbow

@ericatoogeekedd

3 жыл бұрын

Me too

@GlennDavey

3 жыл бұрын

The sunlight really looks beautiful in the pollution

We also have to remember that as the game progressed he saw Mac, Davey, Jenny, Sean, Lenny, Kieran and his right hand Hosea die and the heat coming on the gang after Blackwater. When everything was going wrong it is possible that with everyone questioning him for bad luck his morale went down and with micah being a yesman, he could have been easily manipulated by micah to change. Kind of like if his morale started depending solely on Micah. Plus in Saint Denis he takes a huge hit to the head which I imaigine had some sort of effects on his brain. Honestly at the end who knows who Dutch really aas at the start of RDR2.