Do you think people who have served a criminal sentence should be able to vote? Is voting a right that you can't take away, or is it a privilege that you have to earn and maintain?

@ForumArcade

3 жыл бұрын

This is especially relevant to me as a person currently facing felony charges. The problem with the notion that convicted felons should lose their right to vote is that there's little to no accountability for the systems of incarceration. We lose our voices in prison. And we don't get them back even after we're out. About the only thing we have left is to join advocacy and special interest groups to try and convince representatives to afford us the rights that other Americans are entitled to. But when most conservative and even many liberal candidates run on "tough on crime" platforms, it's very difficult. It's easy for those of us in society who have no connection to criminal life to forget about those who do. You may think of them as "undesirable elements". But fundamentally, we are all human. I think it's wrong to simply dismiss people, regardless of their history.

@AboveTheNoise

3 жыл бұрын

@@ForumArcade Thank you so much for sharing this with us!

@pedrobluis

3 жыл бұрын

Yes they should. It should only be suppressed during imprisonment.

@spencerjames9417

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, definitely

@likebot.

3 жыл бұрын

I believe no one should lose their voting duty ever for anything.

I look at it this way. The USA was founded on the principle of no taxation without representation. If you can pay taxes, you should have the right to vote.

@AboveTheNoise

3 жыл бұрын

D.C. has entered the chat . . .

@andrewgeorge2666

3 жыл бұрын

Seems fair

@discoverybg31

3 жыл бұрын

@@AboveTheNoise I don't live in D.C., but I agree with either making people who live there part of an existing State or giving them statehood. I don't care, either way or another way.

@theorientaleagle1127

2 жыл бұрын

Not everyone should be allowed to vote, only well educated people should.

@ceesno9955

Жыл бұрын

So felons should not pay federal taxes? Or state taxes? Or both?

Yes, they should have their rights restored after completing their debt to society.

In Canada, all people who are incarcerated are allowed to vote. It's wild to me that in the States, there are people who can't vote even after they've fulfilled their sentences.

@AboveTheNoise

3 жыл бұрын

Indeed! We didn't have the opportunity to discuss it in this video, but it's super interesting researching how OTHER countries deal with it. Most countries in the EU let people in prison vote, too!

The fact that racism plays a huge role in the justice system makes this a very different discussion than it would be if everyone were truly treated equally

@oldsalt8011

9 ай бұрын

BS. Do your homework or go live in South Chicago and live it yourself.

@veta0104

9 ай бұрын

@@oldsalt8011 I'm confused by your response.

@oldsalt8011

9 ай бұрын

@@veta0104 All people are treated equal in America. Don't listen to the Race Baiters. They are trying to make a living with such madness. People bring on their own problems. Look at how successful the Asians are. Next, the Latinos will take over all of the blue collar jobs and drive out any chance of the black community. If the black community does not get it's act together, then they will suffer to welfare and public housing - living back on the plantation. Tune to the black Conservatives and hear the other side.

@beryllium1932

12 күн бұрын

@@oldsalt8011You make their point well.

I believe everyone should have the right to vote unless they have been convicted of voter fraud.

@oldsalt8011

9 ай бұрын

Not Fellons aka Criminals.

It would make politicians from all parties look at the criminal justice system a weee bit differently wouldn’t it?

@AboveTheNoise

3 жыл бұрын

Without a doubt.

@randomuser5443

2 жыл бұрын

Well, they realistically should all be imprisoned and tried for all of their crimes. For instance: everyone on the eppy flights

Politicians don't have to care about those going through criminal justice systems if they can't be held accountable by those people. Young people in prison for drug related offenses are victims too. I also think it is critically important for reintegration into society that people can know they will have their voice heard in the vote. (And I feel a similar way about the initial integration that should happen at minimum voting age 16) If I'm a prisoner, why would I be at all interested in learning about my civic institutions (and then also respecting them more) if I know that I'm unlikely to have any influence over them.

@AboveTheNoise

3 жыл бұрын

Great points. Thanks for sharing your perspective.

criminals who can get access to guns never register the gun

In most countries here in Europe most if not all prisoners are allowed to vote.

Personally, I think that those with a criminal conviction should be allowed to vote, but perhaps with the exception of those currently in prison for a serious, politically motivated crime (e.g. terrorism with the intent to cause serious injury or death).

Not all crimes are equal. I suppose it makes sense to use this as one of the punishments for some crimes. But it's silly to have these things done differently in different parts of the same country.

@AboveTheNoise

3 жыл бұрын

That's the Constitution for you! The power power to regulate elections is explicitly given to the states!

@dhindaravrel8712

3 жыл бұрын

@@AboveTheNoise I'm aware of that. Doesn't make it any less silly, however.

Thank you for specifically mentioning the parties in this. You were fair and didn't endorse or shun one of them but you called it like it is. Many channels would have been afraid to go as far as you did. I am shocked that this channel doesn't have more views. You and America From Scratch. I'm not your demographic. I'm in my 40s. But love your channel. Been here since Shirin.

@AboveTheNoise

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching! We welcome all ages, btw. And we really appreciate the positive feedback.

@oldsalt8011

9 ай бұрын

Yep, you know a party is desperate when they reach way down in the bottom of the sewer for the right ofa fellon aka Criminal to vote. The United Sewer of America.

You might lose the right to vote, but you can still make campaign contributions

I look at voting as a right and think the whole point of the justice system should be rehabilitation, not punishment. After you serve a sentence you should absolutely be allowed to vote. During a sentence the only crime which I think should remove your right to vote is voter fraud or other crimes directly related to voting, like those people burning ballot boxes, but even those people, after they have done what the justice system (ideally a better one than we have now) requires of them to be rehabilitated, all of their rights should be restored. Of course there is a much bigger discussion to be had about the ineptitude of our criminal justice system, ranging from what gets prosecuted or not to how sentences are given in an extremely bias manner but that's getting a bit off-topic.

I don't think voting has anything to do with being convicted of a crime. I'm coming to see voting more as an obligation than a right or privilege. If we have enough people who have been convicted or crimes to dramatically change elections, maybe we need to look at how we got into that situation.

Oh interesting I made a video about that a while back. One of the problems with felons not voting is the fact that most prisons are located in rural areas. Places get more votes based on their population in state voting. So, rural areas, which are primarily white, have disproportionately more voting power than other areas. However, if felons were allowed to vote, they wouldn’t be representing the needs of the rural areas because their vote would count towards the rural areas.

@AboveTheNoise

3 жыл бұрын

Interesting point. But our video was mostly focused on formerly incarcerated individuals and their voting rights.

@ceesno9955

Жыл бұрын

I thought slaves were counted as 3/5th

That's a very good point in that allowing former prisoners to vote could definitely turn the tides for candidates.

@oldsalt8011

9 ай бұрын

Fellons aka career criminals should not have the right to vote. It should be left for civil people only.

I rather they not lose the right to vote at all since voting is supposed to be anonymous anyway, but I understand the want for consequences. If they had to lose it for a crime, they should automatically get it back after the sentence is complete. Voting is such a big part of being an American and the idea of losing it is very alienating.... at the same time, preventing someone else from voting feels like it's against everything we fought for.

Given the much harsher sentences, on average, that black people receive in this country, and the privatization of prisons that encourages incarceration for profit, AND the recent history of blatant voter suppression by the Republican party, I no longer think it's safe for our democracy to NOT let people in prison vote. We should treat it as a right. They should still have a voice.

I can see that recidivism raises a problem. But if they did the time and paid the fines, and want to vote, I say let them... unless they've just served their third sentence. (three times, you're out). Simplistic, I know. There is so much that goes into the causality of the crime to start with -- need can be an even more compelling driving force than malice in some cases.

@AboveTheNoise

3 жыл бұрын

So it sound like you're saying that for some crimes -- or after a certain number of convictions -- you're OK with taking away the vote? How do you feel about the argument that having to pay court fees of restitution is the same as a poll tax?

@randomuser5443

2 жыл бұрын

@@AboveTheNoise Someone willing to repeatedly hurt others… vs being forced to use money to even participate before you can do something

There should not be any felony disenfranchisement. Period.

@randomuser5443

2 жыл бұрын

Im going to ask this very simply, should someone who went out to commit a lynching be allowed to vote Felony disenfranchisement is logical, but only in cases where the character is truly malicious

@oldsalt8011

9 ай бұрын

Wrong.

To me, the main problems are a lot of people would gladly sacrifice the long game for the sake of the short game, and because of the vastness of the weeds they often overlook the grain. Yes, giving felons the right to vote after jail time can indeed shift political power in the US and its states, but power is a fickle thing that prefers to come to equilibrium. Also, I have seen a report talking about politics in the prison populations, and it is clear to me that if Republicans are antsy about allowing former felons to vote, they will certainly be doing disservice to those felons who lean Republican.

Not allowing former felons to vote, puts this arbitrary and subjective morality test on people before allowing them to vote. Sure letting rapists vote sounds terrible, but most rapists are never convicted so they're already voting. If we're already allowing rapists to vote why not allow forgers too? Creating a select list of what crimes are and aren't too egregious to allow voting restoration relies too much on the sense of morality of a few elected officials. There will always be people that you find to be amoral voting in elections, so applying this morality threshold to a select portion of people is arbitrary and unjust.

@ilovebats10

3 жыл бұрын

That's not even talking about how politicians ultimately want to stay in power, so it's in their self interest to try and prevent people who oppose them from voting, and this is a tactic to do so.

What makes you think fellons will automatically vote for the democrates?

@oldsalt8011

9 ай бұрын

More free stuff.

3:08 Florida is yellow after 2018 ballot initiative.

@AboveTheNoise

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the update!

Voting is not the same is owning a fire arm. The removing the right to vote to me doesn't make sense. For me the racial argument is a correlation / causation fallacy argument. In the back of my mind, yes, I thought of Jim Crow and Slavery since that could control who votes. Arizona was not part of Jim Crow. And allowing Criminals to vote can affect white people too. So the bias in this video left out the variable of "white males" convicted and being allowed to vote potentially canceling out a democrat vote with a republican vote. That said. All the arguments I have heard "against" giving the right to vote to ex-cons are not very persuasive to me. They should have the right to vote. Using "Guilt By Association" to prevent voting is silly.

@oldsalt8011

9 ай бұрын

Nope.

@user-ek9vo2ub9b

7 ай бұрын

​@oldsalt8011 "Waaaa! People I don't like are Voting!"

You should have the right to vote even if you want to prison or Jail . Voting should be a right. And we have to understand everyone in prison/Jail is not in there because they did something wrong there is a White people and a Black person criminal justice system . As a Country who brags about all the rights we have you would think this would not even be a debate.

@oldsalt8011

9 ай бұрын

Wrong. Voting should be left to civil Americans only. Wise up.

If you're convicted of a felony, you lose your rights to firearms and the right to vote! Don't do the crime if you can't do the time..

@oldsalt8011

9 ай бұрын

Ditto!

If you commit a felony you realistically are not a good judge of character and should not be allowed to vote with other people On the other, if you finish your sentencing and are clean afterwards you should be allowed to fully reintegrate as through due process the you showed you can be good *note i do have strong opinions on the fact that some felonies are not made equal to others. Like domestic abuse or murder is way worse than stealing something over 1000$ or victimless crimes

@oldsalt8011

9 ай бұрын

Voting is for civil Americans only. We don't need a jungle society.

@user-ek9vo2ub9b

7 ай бұрын

What do I know. I am not a good judge of character apparently...