This is an absolute joke. Forcing Australians to pay $100 for replacing a plug worth $4.50 on an extension cable not to void insurance . Anyone who knows how to use a screwdriver can do this.

@pantowriter

4 ай бұрын

Saxon Watkins? Bournemouth School 1980-81? Please do message if it's you. Nick Smith, class 1.22

What's really ironic is the major hardware retailers here in Oz, e.g. Bunnings, Mitre 10, will openly sell you all the parts needed to commit illegal acts.

@kmaidotia

3 жыл бұрын

Sooo true

@AntonioToomalatai

3 жыл бұрын

Yes. Literally my thoughts when watching this vid.

@lezbriddon

3 жыл бұрын

Yes they do, but they don't know if your going to wire up something legal or illegal. Grocery stores sell peanuts and knives, which can be used for naughty things.

@anonanon7278

2 жыл бұрын

Do you mean like hammers for bludgeoning, and shovels for burying? ;) I can't wait to emigrate from this oppressive f*cking nanny state ... come on 2028 ... my retirement year/date.

@josephantognoni5841

27 күн бұрын

I don’t think it’s a bad thing at all, having a licensed professional perform work on something that you’re not qualified to do on your biggest investment makes sense. There are a number of standards that are the minimum requirements for electrical work that a diy person would not know, running the risk to save a few bucks is not worth it.

The irony is, is that the most corrupt thing here is not the work you do yourself, but the charges that are made for the work to be done.

It looks like it is illegal to change spark plugs in a mower. > 50 volts and all

It's so ridiculous here - Silicon Chip, the long published electronics magazine in Australia, is currently fighting a complaint made about it in NSW because it contains mains powered projects. Very few sparkies would have a clue about what happens after the mains input.

With my electrical engineering degree, I've designed 11kv switch boards and 132kv transmission towers. I've worked in repairs of underground power cabling and above ground as an electrical inspector for our local authority when they used to do it inhouse for commercial and private installations. But, cannot legally touch a 240v plug. The guys I talk to across the ditch in NZ think it's hellarious. Tight restrictions also apply to the repair of equipment that plugs into the mains. It's another reason it's hard to find a serviceman for TVs, microwares, dishwashers etc...even if you wanted it fixed instead of thrown away.

Sonn i Austrailia, illeagle to go outside without a 4year education in walking. xD

Thanks for doing the work behind this video. Really helps! Three years ago I was commuting on a train to Sydney Aus when I got a broken call from my then 16yo saying "fire ... brigade... damage... burnt"... I had a house fire that started when a cheap battery bank went thermal. It was sitting on my carpet charging after it went flat while I was testing a esp8266 infra red to wifi project I was playing with (to hook my air con' up to Home Assistant). The burning battery had lit up the nylon carpet and filled the house with black smoke. My 16yo hero got his little bro and sis out, and the dog, was extinguishing the flames with a tea towel after dialling 000. He saved the house and my kids, no doubt. It wasn't my project that caught alight - but the guilt was there. Insurance were fine as the Brigade identified the battery as the source. Man, I am so paranoid now though.

@SuperHouseTV

5 жыл бұрын

Wow, that's an amazing story! I'm glad your kids are fine, and your son did such a good job. He's a champion :-)

Thanks for the shoutout Jonathan I've been watching your channel for years! To make things even more confusing in the US, most of the electrical laws are set at the state or even city level. Some cities let you do more than others, but none (that I know of) restrict work that it outside of the walls like your power strip. Funny story: I'm pretty sure the only code violation in my house is the one of the few things that I paid an electrician to do. When we got the charger put in for my wife's Tesla the electrician wired a sub-panel from another sub-panel, which I'm pretty sure is a code violation everywhere in the US. Since he was a licensed and insured electrician his insurance would be liable should that particular work cause a fire, not mine. The law (and insurance) is all about pointing fingers.

@JamesEggleston

5 жыл бұрын

I'm an electrician in Australia 20years now, and I have seen many many sub standard and dangerous things done by licenced electricians. I think it comes down to care factor some people just don't care or keep up self learning.

@ptmoy1

5 жыл бұрын

@Emmanuel Goldstein It's socialism masquerading as democracy. The theory of socialism looks good on paper, but people don't seem to realize human nature precludes it from ever being implemented as preached.

@ptmoy1

5 жыл бұрын

"set at city level" - that's true. Some code requirements are just bureaucracy, but some do make sense. I renovated my apartment in NYC back in the early 90's. I went to buy Romax cables but no stores carried it. As it turned out, the steel-clad BX cable is required in NYC. Apparently, the BX-cable-requirement code was put in place to keep rats from biting through electrical cables and potentially causing a hazard.

@Retinalism

5 жыл бұрын

@@ptmoy1 so the Big Apple is AKA "rat city", officially?

@njnear

4 жыл бұрын

The Hook Up I’m pretty sure it isn’t illegal to feed a sub-panel from another sub-panel, as long as you aren’t exceeding the current carrying capacity of any of the upstream equipment. forums.mikeholt.com/forum/active-forums/nec/13316-how-many-subpanels

Bear in mind that not every clause in an insurance contract is (a) enforceable or (b) likely to be enforced (subject to PR cost evaluation). If the insurance company cannot show substantial evidence that your faulty work caused the fire, they are unlikely to attempt to deny your claim on this basis, and even more unlikely to win a legal challenge

Sounds like the electricians union has governmental authority to keep electricians in well paid jobs! Thank you

@jimmymcfee8051

5 жыл бұрын

Pretty well nailed it here. The electrical unions in all the states have pushed hard for years to get the regulations to this point. Its ridiculous when you consider someone like an electrical or other technical engineer with years of experience and knowledge cant undertake even the simplest of electrical works unless they also choose to complete a 4 year apprenticeship/Cert III. There really needs to be a way to side step some of the requirements to become licensed such that qualified people are able to do this work legally, but good luck getting that past the unions.

@notathome13

5 жыл бұрын

No - the govt is also screwing Sparky’s as well - they are making the trade so niche no one will be able to afford a sparky!

@Toothily

5 жыл бұрын

I used to think the whole "unions are bad" thing was just right wing scare tactics, but this has caused me to reconsider. I'm for workers' rights, but this is not that, it's insidious.

@chiliphil64

5 жыл бұрын

To my understanding this all came about after some deaths due to poor electrical work. Even though I do not agree with this restriction as as a marine engineer able to perform electrical work on any international ship including Australia Registered Vessels, I am dreamed unqualified to do any work in Australia.

@user-zy4yw9uw6n

3 жыл бұрын

@@jimmymcfee8051 I work with many elec engineers. I shudder to think they do their own work. Plus we've had deaths in the past few years. ESV makes the rules. Not unions. Don't confuse the two.

I'm an auto electrician, I replace trailer.plugs and sockets on prime movers and semi trailers, 7 wires in each, daily, yet it's "illegal" for me to replace a 3 wire plug or socket on an extension cord or appliance. Any idiot can replace a trailer plug though or rewire their whole car if they want, I recall a bloke replacing the trailer plug on his caravan and doing a shit job at it, wire strands everywhere, and the blue wire (electric brakes) shorted to the red brake light wire next to it. Not straight away though. Only when he was on the freeway and he had to slow down, and he touched the brakes to slow a bit, but the short in the trailer plug put a full 12v to the brake magnets and jackknifed the thing. No one was hurt and damage was minimal....but it's easy to see what could have happened. At the very least, we should be able to replace any fixtures in our own home like for like. End of the day, the people that don't know what they are doing are going to do it anyway. So why punish the rest of us who are more than capable.

The extension cord new plug thing is crazy. Up to the 90s everyone in the UK and Ireland bought their electrical goods with no plug attached(no choice) and had to DIY the plug on. Half the bloody islanders are "electricians" Science books in secondary (high) school showed exactly how to do it. Might even have been in the home economics books too

@stuey4641

3 жыл бұрын

Absolute bs, you dont need to be an electrician to put a plug on a board.

And then, let’s talk about the laws Australia has voted to make the use of encryption basically illegal....

@DeKempster

5 жыл бұрын

So how can you do online banking without https?

@TheRealAnthony_real

5 жыл бұрын

What ?

@Finns-Projects

5 жыл бұрын

@Emmanuel Goldstein your almost as bad as the ppl making encryption illegal. nether off does way off thinking are good.

@TheAlek033

5 жыл бұрын

@@Finns-Projects encryption isn't illegal in Australia

@TheAlek033

4 жыл бұрын

@SpaceCowboy121 "I have freedoms now so that means I'll always have freedom"

Well done Jon for making sense of this - I totally agree with you - it is unreasonable and protectionist! DIY in Australia is generally shunned!

I studied Radio and TV servicing at QIT in Brisbane in the early sixties. It was, of course, normal for us to be poking around on the mains side of the equipment and if necessary, replace the power cord. I think, even then, the legality was something of a grey area. The legislation would suggest that is illegal for any TV tech to actually open and work on a TV or Radio, despite having completed a lengthy and possibly expensive course and possessing a qualifying certificate.

Interestingly when I did my associate diploma in electronics in the early 90s (in Australia) we were specifically shown how to replace a mains power plug. As we were expected to repair devices that were mains powered and this could be one of the faults. Also since 2014 you need to be licensed (Open or Restricted cabling licence with structured endorsement) to do structured cabling (network cabling) in your own home.

Good you posted this video, its had me reevaluate things. My current plan was to lay all the wiring, install all the relays, cat6 etc and get my local sparky to look over it and make any adjustments where he deems fit. But I better check I think first that he is ok doing this, taking that risk on.

@clintAdventures

5 жыл бұрын

let us know.

It's a bit worse than you purport. The requirement for a 4 year apprenticeship means that even the best electrical contractors MUST use inexperienced labor. No small business can afford to have an employee just following someone around for 4 years, and no customer would pay for it. The end result is exactly the sort of workmanship that the rules are trying to avoid!

@shaunmckay8675

5 жыл бұрын

There is limited things an electrical apprentice is allowed to do at each year level. Each task (type of task) is broken down as to what type of supervision is required. So No an apprentice is not allowed to do jobs by himself until he is a certain year and has been deamed competent.

@ScienceSpice09

5 жыл бұрын

@@shaunmckay8675 I get that this is how it's supposed to work. As I see it, the guys running these business' are in a very competitive and crowded market that doesn't understand why an electrician needs to charge $120/hr when they themselves only earn $35. As soon as one guy prices a job to be done by an unsupervised apprentice, he's going to get all the work in his area until everyone does the same. Whilst anecdotes are not proof we've followed through on two incidents where an unsupervised apprentice has done work that caused problems and both cases stemmed from sparkies desperately short staffed and trying to keep their heads above water.

not just electrical - plumbing too!

How do they prove that it was you that performed the illegal installation etc. Houses change hands, and my electrician didn’t provide me with any certificate of authenticity for specific work he did. Just a vague invoice with hours and materials and amount owing. This country is over regulated to the buggery. And you are absolutely correct ,the first thing your insurance company will do is look for a reason NOT to pay you.

@drcl7429

Жыл бұрын

You don't have anything like UK Part P certification?

@adamcoffee738

Жыл бұрын

For any circuit/switchboard repairs or upgrades you should be issued with a new COC. For a PowerPoint, fan or light replacement, a COC is not required.

It's not just electrical work that is locked down. You can't do anything with hardwired communications either; running network cables is a no-no, installing security systems is a no-no... and I bet if you looked hard enough, there would be regulations on running speaker cables for home theatre systems and TV antenna cables too. It won't be too much longer before you won't be permitted to go into your ceiling space or crawlspace under your home. Sigh.

@vk3fbab

5 жыл бұрын

If the speaker cables are like those used in PAs 110v or alike then you can't even though it's an audio system and not a power delivery system. Now I'm open reg certified and the number of sparkies who are too but have no idea about data is amazing. Here's the gotcha. S009 for telecommunications applies if you conceal a pre made cable in a wall. AS3000 does not. So you can without fears for tears permanently install extensions leads in your wall. Just don't join the wires. How is that safe. If I'm wrong on this i would love for someone to point out a source that says this. But it's the advice I've had from a few different sources.

If I run a 20metre cat5 patch cable across the floor, thats fine. But if staple it to the skirting it is now illegal, I have to get a licensed cable installer to do it.

@VLandrew

5 жыл бұрын

Cat5 is low voltage class so u do need a license

@ytdf1972

5 жыл бұрын

Even a licensed sparky needs a cabling ticket to run data. The regulations in these fields are antiquated. Acma.gov.au are the regulatory body for cabling. On the other hand anyone can buy the tools and parts needed to do the job (240v and data). If self installation is so dangerous surely the purchase of the equipment would be regulated like other dangerous goods such as prescription drugs and firearms.

@ytdf1972

5 жыл бұрын

@@VLandrew sorry, I missread your reply, so I probably didnt make a lot of sense. Low voltage class starts at 50v, network cables are well below this.

Just chiming in: I was thinking of replacing my old home's aluminum wiring with copper. I started my design work and reached out to the city of Tempe, AZ, to see what the deal was. As long as I can pass the electrical inspection, they don't care who does the work. I did not inquire about my homeowners policy. However, I didn't end up doing that work at all.

Mate I hold a degree and years of experience in Computer Science. So I know how to make network cables of all sorts, read the specifications and adhere to those, however I cannot cable my own home with Ethernet if those are in the walls floors or ceiling and only if the cable is pre-fab.. Even though I know vastly more about the network across all facets including the physical design and cables. In order to get certified to run communications cable. I have to get 80 hours certified by a cable contractor assessor, complete a training course (a Bachelor Of Science is not enough..) Oh I also have to submit an OHS white card.. with first aid certificate.. To run Cat5 / 6 through my roof. But if its just on the floor and a trip hazard .. thats totally fine, as long as I didnt actually make the cable myself LOL!!

Also there are a few levels of "Restricted" electrical licences you can get that do not require a 4 year apprenticeship which would allow you to change a 3 pin plug and also test and tag equipment and leads and plugboards.

Thank you for sharing that was very informative and useful. Safer to pay an electrician to do the work than risk it with insurance policies

Unfortunately our wonderful sunburnt land is gripped by the throat of the unions

@ParlanceOpus

4 жыл бұрын

A good example of how unions, which are a necessary part of a functioning democracy, can over step the mark and turn Joe Punter against them.

That's pretty harsh for you blokes in Aus because the modern circuits are pretty well protected. As a home owner in NZ we can do a heap of stuff on our own homes but not touch anything at all elsewhere.

I've been told in this country, all you need is a petition signed by 100,000 to get the parliament to start listening , why not start a petition to change that? There is a lot of talent that will be put off because of this.

@Paulman50

5 жыл бұрын

Politicians ears in Australia are only painted on.

@mohsh86

5 жыл бұрын

@@Paulman50 you should take a look at a third world country and then touch wood

@mohsh86

5 жыл бұрын

@Emmanuel Goldstein what I am saying is that you can induce change without being oppressed. I don't expect you to understand if you haven't tasted the bitter.

If I could work out how to post photos, I'd show you the results of 'licenced electricians' in Spain. There are the recognised colours Green/Yellow (Earth), Black (Live), Grey (Switched Live) and Blue(Neutral) but Brown is now making inroads for the Live, to bring things into line with the rest of Europe (in theory). In my previous house, I had all of those colours plus yellow, white, green, pink and orange. There was absolutely no logic or pattern to the use of a colour - there were Switched Lives and Switched Neutrals. There was a length of chain-link fence wire used as a jumper within the breaker box and the incoming power tails went through a large size 'chocolate block' connector (dangling in a void) to a length of 2.5mm flex to the breaker box. All of this wiring was by a licensed electrician, within the last ten years, and it was all 'signed off' - but I couldn't legally fit a 4 Channel Sonoff to the DIN Rail, much less wire it... As I read somewhere, "In Spain. colours vary according to the day or whether the bull or the toreador won..." There is a need for standards and there is a need for safety. Australia seems to have taken this to a ridiculous extreme. Other countries seem to be more reasonable, some are quite relaxed and some just don't give a sh1t...

@Retinalism

5 жыл бұрын

That's very revealing, Duncan, what's interesting about "standardising" colour codes is that a single (global/universal) scheme would make it easier (and safer) for everyone (licensed and unlicensed) to work on the wiring. That is of course if they actually know and understand not only the colour scheme but the switching and loading issues as well. A dear friend of mine, a "qualified electrician A class" attempted to wire his own new home back in the 70's, and on two occasions his work was not passed when an inspector actually inspected the work (in those days) prior to granting written certification that the connection to the grid was approved. He lamented to me, and sought my assistance to help resolve a 2 way switching issue which apparently didn't meet the requirements. I politely declined as I was only qualified to build telephone exchanges etc., nowhere near clever enough to sort out 3 wire circuits....

I know I am way late to this discussion. I am an Electronic Technician and an Electronic Engineer. I have worked on design and implementation of huge switch mode power supplies and inverters and many other high voltage / high current devices let alone massive 5V computer supply systems. I have even had to instruct certified electricians how to wire both simple and complex switching systems, but in Australia I can not replace a plug on a 240V power board without an electrical license or even install cat6 cable in a wall without a wiring / cabling license. For a country that use to be so believing in back yard design and engineering, we have surrendered so much to, convenience ahead of logic, bureaucratic control, be that local Council, Government or Unions. At least I can still play with off grid systems (to my knowledge) in my shed without all these walls of control.

in NZ you can get a _Basic Electrical Certificate_ that takes about 2 hours (maybe 4 - it was over 35 years ago I got it), this "certifies you" to wire up _anything_ on _this side_ of the mains. It also meant (at that time) you could do work between _mains_ and _power box_ (where it enters your house) as long as it is verified (or supervised) by a fully liscenced electricion. (many a _bach_ in NZ was wired by owners/friends).

Electrician unions push legislation like this. It guarantees business for certified electricians. Insurers love it.

@johnlennon1151

3 жыл бұрын

You forgot to mention it decreases the chances of home diyers burning their houses down and electrical shock to persons/live stock. It's heavily regulated (just as plumbing is) for a reason. electricians go through 4 years of training, interpreting and abiding by the wiring rules (as3000), service rules, using calculations like max demand, current carrying capacity, volt drop, fault loop impedance to make the work safe abd compliant. We're not doing work on a car or chippie work.

@louuuuuu5

2 жыл бұрын

@@johnlennon1151 Through years, now we all know that is total bullshit. So just cut it out

@johnlennon1151

2 жыл бұрын

@@louuuuuu5 you sound like one of those salty diy house owners. Stick to dropping the kids off to school and changing the oil in your car champ, ya might hurt yourself.

@louuuuuu5

2 жыл бұрын

@@johnlennon1151 And you sound like a one of those greedy tradies full of shit.

@johnlennon1151

2 жыл бұрын

@@louuuuuu5 stick to baking cakes and dropping the kids off to school ya fucken clown

Most counties in the United States have an "owner builder" clause that allows a property owner to do almost all of the work required to build a building (home) so long as everything is permitted and inspected (they are held to the same standards as contractors)

You forgot we live in the nanny state? You are lucky you don't live in an apartment where you are no longer allowed to open the window more than 5cm if you are above the ground. Ever tried to go through a self checkout with a box of plastic picnic knives? Lights start flashing and the screen starts flashing 'operator intervention!'.

In Australia, do they sell replacement plugs in supermarkets? If replacing them requires a license, then surely they should check who they sell them to.

@vnw06

4 жыл бұрын

yeap i can go down to bunnings and by light switches power points plugs and sockets etc but cannot install them legally

@johnschroeder3072

3 жыл бұрын

In Australia you only need a licence for the fixed wiring so anything on the consumer side of the GPO (power outlet) doesn't require a licence but should still be done following the appropriate standards

@grahamfountain2218

3 жыл бұрын

It varies by state. In some states you can legally replace a plug on an appliance, but not in others. Not legal to do any fixed wiring (above 50V) in any state.

Absolute madness!! Government regulation run amok. I'm in the U.S. and in the midst of building a new home. I pulled my own electrical permit as the property owner and did all of my own wiring. All I had to do was sign a statement that said I was building the home for my own use and intended to live in it when complete. As long as my work passed examination by a state inspector (which it did), I was good to go. Just today I installed a few dozen receptacles, switches and LED light trims.

In Denmark, the rules used to be that non-electricians were basically only allowed to work on single phase things which could be unplugged (not including trivial stuff like installing ceiling lamps), but has been changed so most indoor work outside of the "fixed installation" is ok to do, including exchanging a light switch to basically the same type.

The plug replacement course in NSW is 3 hours. Still can't change a light switch but is something

I also looked into this a couple of years ago as I wanted to do my own electrical work, and yes I would of had to do an apprenticeship to get licenced which is bloody ridiculous, I have a bachelor of science in computing. even if I was to go back to Uni and get an electrical engineering degree I still couldn't do it :( I know for a fact looking at the wiring done by the electrician who built my house I would of done a far better job... I may have done some wiring in my shed and everything is in conduit, tested and well through out, if your doing it for yourself and you have some sort of nouse you will always do a better job... We should start a movement to get this change, power to the people :)

@user-zy4yw9uw6n

3 жыл бұрын

Another cowboy. Great. Uni degree or no degree you still haven't got an idea. I can bet on it.

@DavidMayfield27

3 жыл бұрын

@@user-zy4yw9uw6n I do have a pretty good idea mate, but my point was you need to go to TAFE and do an apprenticeship to do it legally, which is a lower level of education

@timlucas4014

2 жыл бұрын

@@DavidMayfield27 Just to be clear , because you have done a Uni Course and that being a bachelor of science in computing. You fully understand all the legal requirements in wiring a house ??

S.A.A. Wiring rules were written by an insurance company . That is why they are so complicated and specific.

Jon how are we positioned if we have an electrician wire up all the lights etc, put in relay switches into sub boards etc, etc and we do the electronics on the low voltage side of things? I believe we can do low voltage up to a certain voltage without need said licenses. Have the electrician even wire up 12v feed wires that go to the 230v relays...

in the US, you can do pretty much anything. As long as it passes inspection. A person can completely re-wire their entire house and replace the breaker box, just pass inspection and you are good.

Actually queensland is a special (basket) case, where you need an electrical license to work on ANY device plugged into 50V or higher. Fixing your TV ? Need a license for that, need to place the plug on a damaged powerboard, same. Electronics technicians in queensland still have to apply for an additional "Restricted electrical work licence" to do their job, never mind they already have the training. The rest of Australia doesn't have that insane restriction. Oh and Australia wide, becoming a licensed electrician isn't enough, there are extra licenses for: Solar Offgrid batteries 50V Electric Vehicles It's all a mess, I seriously hope the uptake of renewable energy forces them to clean up this mess. It's just impractical to have multiple related technologies with separate licenses and training. And I know why NZ's laws that allow DIY electrical work in your own home, mean less house fires, electric shocks etc. a) People who knew what they were doing anyway get access to free electrical guide, and do an even better job. b) People who didn't know what they were doing, but would have done it anyway, do so safely. c) Clueless joe public still sees it as too hard and pays Electrician. d) Electrical faults get fixed. rather than left till they have the money. e) DIY people double and triple check they did something right, get proper parts etc. f) The DIY people find all the stuff the electricans screwed up. Every single electrician I've had come out to this house, to repair something electrical have been clueless. Don't know how to put a light switch back together, didn't bring a replacement part of the same quality, using uninsulated screwdrivers, left 30A circuit in terminal loose, so it arced and melted the wire. The solar install people have done everything by the book, says a lot about the quality of the normal electricians.

@DodgyBrothersEngineering

5 жыл бұрын

What license do you need for electric vehicles? as far as I know you only need to comply with NCOP14.

@Paulman50

5 жыл бұрын

I have spent the last 7 years laying cable for electricians . I always used to think that electricians were the smartest of the trades. Boy was I wrong.

@lucaskirkness6225

5 жыл бұрын

Actually NSW does have the same insane restrictions. I am a qualified Electronics Tech (3x Cert III and a Diploma in Electronics and Related Fields), I also have done the Restricted Electrical License, Test and Tag and the Plug replacement course and I still don't have the authority to install a new light switch.... The laws in this country are absurd.

And the same to many trade work in Australia, plumbing, etc. I have seen much more crap "certified" work done than proper DIY work really.

Hi and thanks for your education on sonoff etc. can you advise me on a sonoff product to control roller blinds?? up and down with manual switching (maybe the duel in inch mode or) thanks Gary

In Serbia its like the wild west... No one asks, no one tells and you can mostly bribe any inspector or agent for not that much money.

@TheTinkerDad

5 жыл бұрын

Same with Hungary... Central Europe is the new wild west I guess. Also, we're slowly running out of electricians, engineers, etc, etc. So for doing minor things like installing a new ceiling light or stuff like that is impossible to get certified personnel. It's either DIY or not done. Or if somehow you manage to get an electrician to do it, you'll pay a ridiculous price...

@sklepsklep2177

5 жыл бұрын

Be happy You have freedom. Yet.

If you were building a new house in Australia right now, which type of system would you choose for 'basic' home automation? (i.e lights, heating/cooling, and external doors).

So then how does one "prove" that the work was done by a certified person? If your house burns down, presumably all the documentation (if there ever was any) goes down with it. Thus the insurer could do a dodgy and claim something was not up to spec.

@timericson7446

5 жыл бұрын

If it done with too much care and attention to detail, then it becomes obvious it has been done by the home owner, and not a qualified sparkie...

@clintAdventures

5 жыл бұрын

exactly what i was thinking myself. as long as you do a good job on your wiring no obvious crazy stuff then really how would it be known? maybe the insurer would ask you what electrician/bussiness you used so they could call them and check that way? be harder for them if it was 10 years after install you could say i dont remember but if one year later or something? but yeah any documentation you had would be gone in the fire for sure. guessing they have some way of getting you though?

Why? In the US I've rewired two houses I've owned including new breaker panels. Of course I had an inspection when done and that certifies it as correct. And, the inspectors have been helpful with subtle points that he wanted for passage.

@amisakie

5 жыл бұрын

I'm in Canada and the laws are similar. Joe Smucker can wire his own home as long as he gets a permit and has it inspected which is great. But these smart switches that are not tested to any standard can and will fail. Do you really want to chance burning your house down? Sure this can happen with a certified device but is it worth the risk? I work in industry as an electrician, I've seen alot of stuff happen to both types of devices... You can have off shore equipment certified for use of it has no approvals if it's passed by a local inspector.

Thanks for the information, definitely an expensive thing to have a home automation that requires AC cable installation

This is really ridiculous. I’m a fully qualified electrical engineer (not in Australia) but my line of work is in IT and consulting. I’m pretty sure spending 5 years studying engineering qualifies me to replace a light switch lol! It just sucks that if I want to comply to local laws in Vic I need to splash some cash for some minuscule tasks. These laws are just appalling.

@johnschroeder3072

3 жыл бұрын

No it doesn't. Knowing how a switch is designed and correctly/safely installing it is a different matter!

So if you're going to do your own stuff, do it properly, so it won't cause a problem, and if something causes a problem, your own work can't be singled out as a potential cause of the problem.

Yes had a sparky replace some light switches and he wired them "normally" now I have to unlearn 40 years of reaching for the light switch in the kitchen at the bottom. He switched it over to the top switch Arrrrrggh also had a ceiling fan extension done which will need to be pulled. Apart as he blew a fuse trying to rewrite it

What happens if one of your flashed Sonoff switches craps out (through no fault of your own) and causes a fire? Technically you've modified it from factory state, so could be liable for damages caused by the device?

This isn't entirely correct, you can change the plug on a lead by doing the test and tag and plug top replacement courses. I have been told but haven't confirmed myself that once you have the aforementioned qualifications you can technically build a mains rated appliance and test and tag it yourself, it's only when it comes to structured cabling that it becomes a problem, at which point you may need an open cabling registration just to run data cabling around your house, or full electrician qualification for LV wiring, you don't need a license for ELV (

just checked how it is in my country, there are no stipulations regarding this. the only thing that does not count if you have a electrical appliance overheat which causes the fire so you are allowed to do almost anything without stipulations if it electrical or pluming you are allowed to change all the sockets and so, but for the breaker board you must have a licenced electrician check it {if you have a rental house} but for your own house you are allowed to do it yourself, {you cannot disarm the main circuit breaker {unless you want to add more main breakers then you have to call the electricity company to disarm the main breaker}}

Thanks for the informative video. My question is, what happens when you buy a house 20-30 years old. Who knows who and what electrical work was done on that house?

@BensSightSoundandAuto

2 жыл бұрын

Best thing is to hire an electrician to do a full inspection.

Great information video

Those regulation pushed some great ideas and products away from Australia , which only has a small population and special standard.

Wow that is indeed ridiculous! So, I guess then they don't sell light switches and power plugs at your local stores, right?

@aussie1ben

5 жыл бұрын

No they sell them at every hardware store here, but I have noticed that they have only started putting up signs saying 'no diy electrical work" or something like that in the last 5 years or so. I think our plumbing is just as restricted.

@BensSightSoundandAuto

2 жыл бұрын

Nope, everything you could want is available at our hardware store chains.

I believe you only need a restricted electrical license to do plug changes and small repair work, you need a cabling license as well if you want to run the cables than with both licenses you can install all your own electrical wiring, you just need a licensed electrician to check it and connect it to switch board and sign off on the work. And yes in Queensland if you work on electronic equipment with exposed 240volt wiring inside you need a restricted electrical license to open it, and work on it.

The Ank Morepork guild of electricians has got you buy the nuts! Everything that is past the main fuse is legally mine (in the Netherlands). If my house burnes down, that's my problem. Thing is that in Europe most houses are made of brick. Are you aloud to change a light bulb? What if you have solar panels and a power converter?

Fully agree with you Jonathan. For you information, I am a builder in Canberra, ACTPLA will not approved a Aeotec Zwave module unless they see a Australian Compliance Certificate AS3000 for switches even thought the module clearly stated that it is 10A 240 w. I have my electrician running all the wireling to a central location before it goes to the lights; and I wire the modules (zwave, sonoffs,shellys) in this central location. They are not even behind the switches; they are so save in this data location. Sparkies wont do it because ACTPLA told him he will not approve it. I also don't see this going to changed quickly. I have been trying to get a AS3000 certificate and Aeotec or Shelly1 Company but they were not able to give me one. If I am able to get this certificate, my electrician will install the modules for me. I think that should be the starting point; getting the companies to provide us with a AS3000 switch certificate.

Jon, I think you can wire a plug onto that strip lawfully but the AUS/NZ standards no longer applies and therefore insurance issues and so on. Years ago when building a mains powered kit I asked around about the rules and reg's around this subject. I found a hell of a lot of laws around entering the wall cavity even with CAT cable.

@2Fast4Mellow

5 жыл бұрын

Is it possible that these laws are several decades old? It wouldn't be the first time some old law was kept alive just because nobody really thought of updating that law..

@MickDownUnder

5 жыл бұрын

@@2Fast4Mellow It is a very gray area of law. Look at how the ACMA apply the act around homebrew amateur radio equipment, very gray.

Well said Jon; who is the union for electricians - CFMEU. What about low voltage? Home automation low voltage? Final leg sparkie hooks up. How would anyone know a device is not "certified" in the event of fire? How many millions of products in Australia are not certified sold every day?

@jimmymifsud1

5 жыл бұрын

pulporock CFMEU don’t look after electricians in Australia.. That’s the CEPU (ETU)

@markwilliammandigers1001

5 жыл бұрын

230V is low voltage, at least in the EU

@pulporock

5 жыл бұрын

@@jimmymifsud1 Yes you are right; how did I get that wrong, I saw some demarcation disputes on building sites just on this. I think they cover sparkies at power stations.

I life in the Netherlands in Europe, we have commercials on television where the try to stimulate people to fix things like a power cord. When my cord breaks I drive to a sort of home depo and by a new plug for $1 or less. I did change out all the old cables in a few houses, even for my job a can make small electrical installations. Small side note there is no place in the Netherlands where you can drive in a car for 30 seconds whiteout seeing houses, we run on 220v and when there is a fire the fireman put the water directly into the main installation because the know somewhere nearby will blow a main fuse. Everything is triple secured here.

How many Queenslanders does it take to change a lightbulb....? It is inversely proportional to the number of stubbies they have to drink until they feel they know what they are doing.

Does that also come into play with using imported non australian certificated products (example CN plugs, and Adapters converting UK/US to AU)

As an electrician it’s the simple tasks where complacency and mistakes happen. All it takes is a loose connection to arc and cause a fire. What’s about Putting the active in earth terminal? It’s not always marked with colour code. All fatal mistakes

FYI, In Western Australia it is possible to obtain a restricted electrical licence, previously called Plugs and Cords license. I believe there are a few states that can do this and is primarily designed for Electronics Technicians to change Low Voltage

And yet they’ll allow a lazy drugged up apprentice to build the rest of your house cutting every corner possible and sign it off even though it looks like a 6 yr old constructed it

Jonathan, I live in NSW. I am a 4 year degree EE. I did the electrcians conversion course at tafe ( some 120 hours) Sat my oral exam and got my contractors licence. The biggest stumbling block with most of the guys in my tafe class was they had no practical experience and made really fundamental errors. AS3000 is more to do with safety of installation, which needs to be taught in person not through a book. The average Joe, is going to struggle with 3 and 4 way switching circuits and earthing of fixtures. Yes there are average Joes out there who do understand this stuff. But would you want to buy a house that you cannot be certain of the safety of the installation because it was done by someone unqualified.. I agrre that you should be able to change the plug on a powerboard. The legislation regarding a need for a licence only applies to the fixed installation.

@gregorybell9912

5 жыл бұрын

I am an EE too, although that course doesn't exist anymore, does it?

@kaindub

5 жыл бұрын

@@gregorybell9912 I looked at the Tafe couses available in NSW and didn't find anything like the course I did. I guess they dont want EEs to play with electricity! I found when I did the course, although most of the people who did the course passed, they didnt qualify for an electrcians licence because they lacked industry experience. We had guys from IBM who were connecting big ass mainframe computers to hard wired circuits, but that was not sufficient industry experience. I qualified because I had had done several months in factories wiring to AS3000 as part of my engineering training.

@gregorybell9912

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the update and background. Wow. I wonder how well the US system works, where you can do the home electrical work and then have it approved?

I've been so frustrated by this too. Just ridiculous.

Under section 18 of the Electrical Safety Act 2002 (the Act), electrical work includes "the manufacturing, constructing, installing, testing, maintaining, repairing, altering, removing, or replacing of electrical equipment". How many queenslanders does it take to change a lightbulb....

@johnlennon1151

3 жыл бұрын

It's legal to change a light bulb.

@lezbriddon

2 жыл бұрын

@@johnlennon1151 just for trolling proposes I disagree, it is a piece of electrical equipment and as self appointed chairperson of my newly formed international lightbulb safety in the home guild, all home owners must now only used one of our appointed light bulb change persons, you can become authorised by a simple test proving you know which end is inserted into the bulb holder, and submitting a photo of this with a payment of local currency equivalent to 500 beer tokens

Now i'm scared to even change a lightbulb...

In Denmark we have it a lot better. When working on mains power, we can change outlets switches that have been installed by an electrician. But for the DIY community it's even better. We have two types of regulation on electric work: High (>220v) and low (=

Hi looking at building a new home, would like to implement a full suite of home automation, looking at the Shelly PM4 for all electrical, saw your vid on making switch’s that use cat 6 , would like to know if there is a manufacturer for switch’s, dimmers, fans, blinds and curtains, low voltage lighting.

I believe most states will allow work to be done on houses for voltages below 48 dc.. Thinking laterally from there, most lights - led have dc versions which provide the same lux rating.. in fact the 12 volt and 24 volt markets are huge because of the auto industry .. - there is no reason you have to use 240 volts... - good video -

so in terms of having a smart home with home assistant in Australia, is it even worth it?? what can you do? I would assume then that even opening a device for flashing would be out of the question, does that mean you would be restricted to stuff that works "out of the box"

@lotsarats

5 жыл бұрын

this video didnt cover the voltage ranges. he seemed to only be talking about HV and LV, not ELV

In the Netherlands you are allowed to work on the entire circuit behind the breaker board. There are some regulations you need to follow: e.g. it is forbidden to fasten an extension cord to your wall and there are some regulations about what you can or cannot do in a wetroom like your bathroom, but these are the same regulations an electrician should follow. I don't think insurance policies have any clauses citing your own electrical work, but ofcourse if they see a way out of paying they will and will probably call on some general negligence clauses, but then the burden of proof is on them. The simple fact that you wired your own sonoff somewhere is not enough. Besides, if that's what caused the fire, chances are the proof is gone

That's crazy.

Send your powerbox to me in NZ, I’ll swap the plug, and send it back! Joking aside - Am I right in assuming your strict rules do not apply to low voltage. If so - all the more reason to replace all house lights with 12 or 24vdc LED lights. I’m planning to do that here with a new build (using Smart House light switches, centralized Arduino etc), but I would imagine it could also be done to an existing dwelling by disconnecting light circuits at the main switchboard and reusing in situ with low voltage dc?

@SuperHouseTV

5 жыл бұрын

You could provide a mail-order device modification service ;-) I wish that going for extra low voltage solved the problem: unfortunately in Australia the wording of the legislation relates to fixed wiring, so if it's permanently installed as part of the house then it's off-limits even if it's 12V. I'm not even allowed to install Ethernet cable because it's considered to be fixed wiring!

@jimmymifsud1

5 жыл бұрын

I don’t believe that’s correct, the legislation in Queensland is quite specific around ELV being exempt... except in seperate and protective extra low voltage... Structured cabling (Cat6) is regulated by the ACMA and requires a Open Cabling registration with endorsements in structured cabling... No need to be an electrician

@JamesEggleston

5 жыл бұрын

Extra low voltage is included in the standards AS3000. And yes if it fixed you need to be licenced. And the as3000 also cites installation couplers(a plug basically) does not mean it's not fixed. I think it is over the top. That is for WA anyway

@jimmymifsud1

5 жыл бұрын

Yes, as I said there is specific classes of ELV they are covered.. But for the most part, you do not require an electrical license for ELV in the home... As3000 is not a home or domestic standard, it’s the basic standard for all low voltage installations

@pulporock

5 жыл бұрын

@@SuperHouseTV Hmm I did not know that; I run cables for NTCs temperature sensors often just Cat6 cable. This is for new homes, never has an electrician had a problem always check. Even on inspections it was not an issue with a whole bunch of Cat6 cables sticking out the wall. I run the cables as if something missed or not right its my fault. Can one do some sort of challenge exam to become an electrician, I cannot do 4 years at my age.

I've been looking into this for a bit for myself, and there exist entities like Bizmatrix in Australia who can (for a price) provide you with the training and certification required for a restricted electrical license. It does gost a good $3000 or so and your employer will need to justify the fact that you need it for both the permit to learn and the actual license.

@gregorybell9912

5 жыл бұрын

After a quick read of Bizmatrix's website, it doesn't look very useful. While you can change a plug, you cannot install/change lights, electrical outlets etc. "Restricted electrical work licences allow people to do electrical work incidental to a particular trade or calling." From their website: IF I HAVE A RESTRICTED ELECTRICAL LICENCE, CAN I FIX ANY ELECTRICAL APPLICANCE? CAN I INSTALL POWER POINTS, LIGHTS, AND WORK IN A SWITCHBOARD? NO

@grahamfountain2218

3 жыл бұрын

A lot of those types of courses are basically to allow people like plumbers to connect (existing) wires to a hot water system, or an aircon tech to connect the wires to an air conditioner. So unfortunately they are not an alternative to allow people with degrees in electrical engineering to replace a faulty light switch.

Is POE classed as electrical work as well? Bloody hell. I'm in Melbourne Australia. So do I need to get an electrician to draw my POE cat6 cables as well?

@matthew35673m

4 жыл бұрын

That's actually a different license again. Any fixed data cabling (even using preterminated cables) needs a license from the ACMA. They are even worse than the electrical boards believe it or not.

What about say the Sonoff smart plugs. Can they be legally used in Aus? They are just plug in devices and are available on eBay etc

Yeah the US is not like this at all. Only certain work requires a permit and in many municipalities a homeowner can take out ANY permit including electrical and gas.

Plugs and chord licence will let you change the plug....however..... the electrical testing for type aproval for the power board, may require a particular style plug. Just to add to the matter, to run data cable which can directly or indirectly attach to an external network, requires an Austel/ data cablers licence. Way around this is, transformer isolated Ctick and Australian aproved power supply, and nothing that connects to telephone lines. Telstra technicians have been jnjured in the exchange when someone has used dodgy equipment which has put mains power in the line.

@ismzaxxon

5 жыл бұрын

Ask yourself this, when looking at a power point, which side is the active? What is a double insulated device and does it require an earth. How does an,earth leakage detector work. Is the neutral connected to earth at the switchboard. What is the segregation requirements for mains and SELV voltages. Anyone who can not snap off the answers to all these, should not be touching power.

Ridiculous. Here in Canada you can even wire your ENTIRE home yourself and have the electrical safety authority inspect and okay it afterwards. No issues replacing light fixtures, installing ceiling fans or putting plugs on cords.

So, can you buy supplies in Australian hardware stores without a license (e.g., switches, replacement plugs, etc.)?

@clintAdventures

5 жыл бұрын

yes. bunnings (our main everyday joe hardware store) stocks switches, power points, cabling, ect just buy what you want.

How would insurance know if the outlet you installed wasn't there originally? Especially in older houses.

@BensSightSoundandAuto

2 жыл бұрын

Most outlets have a date code (mind you they are plastic so actually being able to prove it is another thing) also any work done needs a certificate of compliance which is written up by the installing electrician.

So, we get the law changed. Have regulatory bodies in Australia ever considered changing the regulations to align with NZ (as they do with so many other standards and regulations)?

In Victoria we have a population of 6.6 million and maybe 3 government electrical inspectors and unlicensed aircon installers know this all to well

What’s the deal with DC power as opposed to AC power in Aus, though? Like a POE powered arduino sitting in a wall controlling, say, an RFID reader? What about a DC jack powering the same in-wall arduino?

@TripleJ85

3 жыл бұрын

My understanding is that if it's wiring in a wall cavity it has to be done by a qualified electrician - but if it's out in the open, ulv is fair game.

What happens if some students connect more meters of cable with 10/20 kV (0.8 meter underground) or 35kV(1.1 meter) ? 10/20/38 years of prison?

Victoria used to have a 'S' Permit for other trades with fairly Lax training to allow like for like. The replacement for it www.esv.vic.gov.au/licensing-coes/electrical-licences/restricted-electrical-workers-licence/ covers much the same but the requirements and training are tighter but it does allow Like for Like replacement/repair of items but NO wiring.

@Mutski47

5 жыл бұрын

I was also under the impression that these laws only applied to FIXED WIRING. ie if it has a plug on the end you're good to go. The ESV link agrees with that. So at least in Victoria you can replace the plug on a power board. Or do you're own lighting / automation etc, provided there is a plug/socket.

@seabreezecoffeeroasters7994

5 жыл бұрын

@@Mutski47 I used to have an S Permit way back when and I haven't had a proper read of the current regs I just know they exist. We are a bit over Nannie'd in Oz :( I was covered for removing and reinstalling most electrical gear in my former life we maybe used to stretch that a bit to plugs and outlets of single and three phase gear and also waterproof cable splices.

From my experience everything seems to be shittier in australia somehow. some include: Border Control, Car Import, Internet,Car Mods,Electrical Work and the "luxury taxes"

Crazy, Here in the is similar but you can change plugs etc. Electrical work can be done a 'competent person' ... - I think most people here only insure for contents rather than the building (Insurance here comes in two parts Building and contents)

so if my PSU stops working in my computer is it illegal for me to change it? do I need an electrician to assemble my computer? IMHO we should wire our houses in CAT6 and POE everything with lights, 48V is under 50V so my guess it's free for all?

@grahamfountain2218

3 жыл бұрын

It is legal to replace a psu, because they are a sealed unit, with a plug in 230V cable, and ELV on the other side. Replacing a fan inside a PSU is getting a bit grey, but probably not legal.