Vitalik Buterin on "The Portal", Ep.
Ойын-сауық
In this episode, Vitalik Buterin sits down with Eric to discuss ethereum, the wider world of crypto and heterodox economics.
Taking note of the new development of blockchain in 2010, Eric wrote an essay called “Go Virtual Young Man”. A few years later, a Thiel Fellow named Vitalik created a virtual machine with an idiosyncratic smart contract system and a currency. Ironically, Eric had recently become a Managing Director at Thiel Capital. Perennially circling each other intellectually, the two now sit down in person to discuss economic paradigm shifts, crypto and the future of online sovereignty and social coordination.
Note: This Episode was originally made possible by The Portal's returning sponsors.
Wine Access: WineAccess.com/Portal
Chili Technology: chilitechnology.com/PORTAL
Phlur: phlur.com/portal
Blinkist: blinkist.com/portal
Пікірлер: 816
This guy was the voice of every computer from 1992 - 2001.
@ViralKiller
4 жыл бұрын
without the "nyeeeeeeee"
@stockrt
4 жыл бұрын
Aannnndddd
@jbtvt
4 жыл бұрын
Figured it'd be here, my thought as soon as he opened his mouth
@ascotclark
3 жыл бұрын
I was searching for this comment or something like it to do with his Hawking-like voice! :D
@stellaborealis4846
3 жыл бұрын
Oh shit ! It’s true! ROFL 🤣
I have ALL this dudes wierd but NONE of his intelligence.
@LOL-hc5fv
4 жыл бұрын
don't worry, he's not intelligent. he's universally called a scammer and one of the worst developers in the world.
@bernardlowe5433
4 жыл бұрын
@@LOL-hc5fv Except, that is not true? He is neither a scammer nor gets called one in any reputable blockchain dev community. I do not know how much code Vitalik actually writes, but I don't think he sees himself as an expert coder. He's more of an architect (of the blockchain tech). This requires skills like game theory, economics, cryptography, com-sci. That is a bit of a different skill from coding (which benefits from knowledge of multiple languages with different paradigms, understanding of types and perhaps even some category theory). Because the former is about designing a protocol, and the latter is about implementing that protocol is a particular language. This is totally okay. I mean, even people who started as expert coders often have to shift from actually programming to a more general type of tasks as the project grows. You have to operate on the forest level and not the tree level when you manage a big project. Look at Linus Torvalds, for example. He mostly oversees Linux development nowadays rather than writes code himself.
@jussid2604
4 жыл бұрын
@@LOL-hc5fv yeah very humble and honest dude for u is a scammer?
@xDMrGarrison
4 жыл бұрын
Damn you got it rough :D
@NineVisual
4 жыл бұрын
God rekt you, GL next life.
What an era to be alive, us mere mortals get a front row seat to this conversation. Vitalik is an absolute legend. I'm going to override my circadian rhythm and stay up listening to these geniuses exchange mouth sounds.
@willielast
4 жыл бұрын
ok calm down
@paf2587
4 жыл бұрын
@@willielast DEAD
@damienwins6185
4 жыл бұрын
@@willielast HAHAHA. I see where he's coming from. Basically: Try to sound smart and pretend to understand.
@jonhart4563
3 жыл бұрын
If you consider them to be above you then you've lost already. Yes they may have more power in the mind then you. That doesn't equate to understanding wisdom discretion. Respect but never idolize or allow yourself to think others know best.
@Ryan-xq3kl
3 жыл бұрын
I 100% agree with the sentiment of this comment, amen
First time I've seen Vitalik talk to someone who understands math and economics..
@robertwright8844
4 жыл бұрын
you should check out his interview on the 80,000 hours podcast
@tinna7004
4 жыл бұрын
Eric Weinstein may understand theoretical math but when it comes to economics he pretends to know more than he does, and he definitely has no idea about coding or cryptocurrencies beyond superficial stuff he read about. It becomes very clear over the course of the interview. His questions often don't make any sense and a lot of time is wasted by Vitalik giving commonplace answers to such confusing questions out of politness, which makes the whole thing boring to listen to.
@andyb6851
4 жыл бұрын
@@tinna7004 You do know what Eric's current job is, correct? If you still stand by your argument that he doesn't know that much about economics, please point to people who do so that we can go learn from them.
@brainbuttr5054
3 жыл бұрын
@@tinna7004 Yes, Buterin was teaching him some basics. It's refreshing to see school dropout millennials make extremely educated boomers look a little dumb.
@mattabraham3549
3 жыл бұрын
Brainbuttr and if Weinstein is any kind of gentleman, he is totally fine with that occurring here
Ok I take it back, THIS is my favorite episode of the portal lol I feel like I got a condensed college education in an hour and a half. Moar plz
@INeedsMoneys
4 жыл бұрын
Vitalik is straight brain gymnastics! I LOVE IT!
@jedlee2194
4 жыл бұрын
Cody Nemeth put that on your resumé
those is high iq vocals
@dabidoe
3 жыл бұрын
hahaha i'm stealing that bar
@tommymc7535
3 жыл бұрын
Who’s here after Record high of 2,600?
@lillyanp4
3 жыл бұрын
DEFINITELY 💯😂
@GravityGamingCo
3 жыл бұрын
smorter
It sounds to me like Vitalik is the voice behind Radiohead's "Fitter Happier" track.
If you put this guy in a conversation with Nick Bostrum, it would NOT pass the Turing Test
@matty1195
4 жыл бұрын
Funny stuff, Lost me on the Nick reference but I am assuming it's all good... No doubt he would be hard to pick out in a voice lineup with a Commodore 64 .
@alexandria5758
4 жыл бұрын
Lol who Eric or Vitalik
@pavelsokov
4 жыл бұрын
lfmao
@AllanClayton1
4 жыл бұрын
well, it would but the tester would be HIGHLY suspicious
@facesmelt9903
4 жыл бұрын
Bob who do you think?
He is revolutionizing the biggest sector in the game, threatening a trillion dollar industry while having a bedhead. More power to him.
@Rodrigo-tk2fm
2 жыл бұрын
While wearing no pants. Total legend
@sojernon8689
2 жыл бұрын
He scares me. With proof of stake he is creating a digital “country” where he is the sole oligarch.
@Humanaut.
2 жыл бұрын
@@sojernon8689 Not really, no.
@noosewrld
Жыл бұрын
@@Humanaut. yes, really, yes
"Im a pretty smart guy." *watches podcast* "NVM"
"is a blockchain fork an EMOTIONAL ISSUE for this community?" Oh, Eric. The depths unplumbed!
An interview like this brings the best out of vitalik because the interviewer is highly intelligent
@Matt-yp7io
3 жыл бұрын
the difference is stark after watching lex !
@lillyanp4
3 жыл бұрын
@@Matt-yp7io 💯💯
@Parallelwurlds
3 жыл бұрын
Perfect observation. You can see his cogs turning
@jdivision79
2 жыл бұрын
Eric talks too much. Just ask questions
@yoloswag6242
2 жыл бұрын
@@jdivision79 I prefer him elaborating because he gets deeper with the question.
20:19 Eric: “I would love to get into you” Vitalik: “Mmmm”
@mementomori8991
4 жыл бұрын
Eric looking down after he realized what he said is hilarious.
@ronaldvalenta493
4 жыл бұрын
lovely "Freudian" Moment: not quite esay… to convey s.th. to s.o./ making an Impression on s.b. ("getting s.th. into s.o.") with this level of… integrity.
@marvinpostadan3484
3 жыл бұрын
Freudian slip
@yoloswag6242
2 жыл бұрын
Vitalik was genuinely considering it for a sec
I feel stupid. Love it.
@cleitongbr
3 жыл бұрын
voce e lixo 🖕🏻
@r0ckstardev
3 жыл бұрын
Get Rekt Kirill
@one4320
3 жыл бұрын
Weird, I feel smarter than before. But don't ask me to explain anything.
This is one of my all time favorite interviews I've ever listened to in my life
God damn this show makes me wish I knew more things
@Ryan-kf6xu
4 жыл бұрын
Spend one month looking into what's talked about on a given subject, and you will know dramatically more, and feel the results
@AirSandFire
4 жыл бұрын
Don't worry, not your fault, Vitalik is a snake oil salesman who makes things sound much more complicated than they really are.
@Brian-vk1hm
4 жыл бұрын
Da faq are you talking about?
@nicetrymate813
3 жыл бұрын
@@AirSandFire what are you talking about? How is he a snake oil salesman?
@Rodrigo-tk2fm
2 жыл бұрын
Vitalik humbles me that way as well
Look at Eric go, episodes of The Portal are flying out of there! This makes me very happy, the more the better!
More impressive is that within 10 minutes he asked Eric to question his models...a very nuanced mind
Glad that we're catching up with the audio podcast.
❤️💙💚 It’s easy to get confused here. For anyone wondering what a “Public Good” means.. In Economics we use examples such as #1 - Street Lights, and #2 - Radio Waves You can’t divide a street light up or control who benefits from it, as the light is up for everyone. Same as radio waves, everyone can tune in And with a “Public Good” it’s essentially free. This is the relation to a Public Blockchain. A good that exists and doesn’t discriminate who can use it. These guys went straight to the complex stuff... we are just dumb apes hehe Hope this helps with your understanding. ❤️💚💙
@donnah8560
4 жыл бұрын
It did help ... now can you explain everything else?! LOL
nice chat lads...first bare legs on the portal too!
@IkeOg
4 жыл бұрын
@@sleepless1587 😁😁
@nicholas1254
4 жыл бұрын
Every time they had a great point I would look up to the screen and think *squats and kettlebells* then lose the point that was just made.
Eric interrupts so rarely, and when he does, it is just to bring the listener up to speed and to help his guest out of the weeds--skillful.
@nelfish1234
4 жыл бұрын
he talks way to much in my opinion
@MaxOstap
4 жыл бұрын
He has been getting a lot better. Episode with Riley Reid was the low point.
@souliko27
3 жыл бұрын
Sarcasm, I am hoping?
Such a brilliant conversation and much appreciated. Thank you both.
And even more impressive that this is his second language!
@immanuelkant7895
4 жыл бұрын
No lol
@ytytboy
4 жыл бұрын
@@immanuelkant7895 Ok :) I am sure you kan.
@miscmisc3128
3 жыл бұрын
not really. My friends and I are all in science and are polyglots. Get over it American
@yes-vy6bn
2 жыл бұрын
@@miscmisc3128 cringe.
Vitalik was a great guest, I'd love to see him on again! Great show (as always).
Very cool to see so many brilliant guests on here, Vitalik will go down in the history books.
just nonstop amazing guests I never knew i needed to listen to. perhaps jordan peterson discussing jung/religion, anything of you discussing math/physics, elon musk, david berlinski, noam chomsky... are all at the top of my list.
Eric, I love your podcasts. I am impressed, not just with your intellect, but your ability to ask really smart and interesting questions. I am usually able to keep up with all your discussions, even the unification debate with Garrett Lisi, but this one was over my head. Nonetheless, keep up the good work. This is my new favorite podcast.
Goddamn, Eric. This may be the single most condensed, high level conversation I've ever heard. Thank you for this. You're doing work no one else can do, in a way no one else can.
Keep them coming Eric, we are with you.
So happy there's finally more of your content available. You're one of the few minds that still make sense.
Yeah I'll get to it but this isn't a background podcast so "I'll be back"
@dropYourVideo
4 жыл бұрын
"Background podcast" lol. Never thought to use that term. But i get ya.
This podcast is definitely in the top 75% of portal podcasts
@danp1471
3 жыл бұрын
Well then I picked a hell of an episode to watch for my first portal podcast. There's so many I'll never be able to watch all the old ones so if you know of any other ones in the top 75% off the top of your head to check out I'd love to hear them.
@originalAtreyu
3 жыл бұрын
@@danp1471 episode 27 with Daniel schmachtenburger. Any time you get a chance to Listen to Daniel pay close attention
@danp1471
3 жыл бұрын
@@originalAtreyu can't say I ever heard of him. Looks like a long episode so I guess I know what I'll be listening to at work tomorrow. Only time will tell if I'll like it, but thanks for the recommendation none the less.
@danp1471
3 жыл бұрын
@@originalAtreyu was well worth the listen thanks
Thanks so much for interviewing Vitalik on the Portal. Loved it! I would love to see more interviews with people from the crypto community to help educate and inspire a wider community. Andreas Antonopoulos certainly has some compelling rhetoric.
It took a while, but at last an episode worth a thumbs up. No back patting, no talking about that time you got together to have conversations about having conversations, and none of Eric’s boring fu**ckin stories. Thanks
I'm so glad you talked about the implications of blockchain, and alternative crypto-currency funding theories, in new sources of intellectual content. I've recently been theorizing the platforms that must be created to promote truthful, and competency based, content like podcast, articles, news, etc. Thank you for your powerful Insight!
Great host! Such a wonderful job! This is THE most in-depth conversation I‘ve ever seen about blockchain! I feel so grateful that these ideas can be spread throughout the world like this. Especially when you're in a regime where information is compromised.
I really enjoyed this episode, on the off chance that you read these comments Eric here is my suggestion for The Portal. Many of these conversations make me wish there was some sort annotation, glossary or appendix, because the closed captioning does a poor job at capturing some of the more complicated terms. Similar to Eric's symbology of math and how it relates to learning, I feel there could be a sort of symbology of vocabulary happening where I'm finding it difficult to know what some of the terms being used even are.
We want David Deutsh! :)
@akwstr
4 жыл бұрын
YES!
@xmathmanx
4 жыл бұрын
You guys didn't catch him in the parallel universes? 😀
Fantastic job at coalescing different topics and characters through this podcast. Refreshing!
You've really been rolling them out Eric! I'm really liking how this is accelerating
The quality of this interview is impressive
I barely understand what these guys are talking about but I'm super happy with the podcast and and with the chanel ! thank you Mr Weinstein for doing this ! I absolutely love listening to any conversations led by you with any kind of person
"Markets as social technology mentality rather than end of history mentality." Haha wow. A truly great economist must deeply understand human nature to understand the markets. Seems obvious when stated like that, but that is something that is often forgotten when discussing economics. Fantastic episode.
this is a very unexpected guest - looking forward to this ep BIGTIME!
...in which Eric reveals he is Satoshi Nakamoto.
@harryheart6018
4 жыл бұрын
It certainly sounded a bit like it, didn't it??
@skyblue9991
4 жыл бұрын
Honestly, It wouldn't surprise me. Lol
@andrewfreeman88
4 жыл бұрын
It's already known in the community to be Hal Finney
@skyblue9991
4 жыл бұрын
@@andrewfreeman88 That's just speculation. There's no real proof.
@andrewfreeman88
4 жыл бұрын
@@skyblue9991 There's much more than speculation...he's the #1 contender. Obviously, he wouldn't want people / gov to know thus hiding clear "proof"
1:21:25 thankyou Eric for thinking outside the norm, extremely worthwhile objective.
Keep these podcasts coming
Mr. Weinstein this podcast is an absolute pleasure. Please continue it in whatever way interests you most. You're providing tremendous value
For anybody watching this for the first time be like, WTF: I am on my 4th wave of binge watching Vitalik, 2015, 2017, 2019, 2021. The guy is totally unique, it is quite inspiring how he has completely broken the mould for what it means to be, well, a business tycoon. It is not that I agree or disagree with him about things, but, I just find he is in a totally different headspace, which makes me question my own core assumptions. Great stuff.
That was pretty cool of him to invite Vitalik on the portal!!
It would be really nice to have Chamath Palyhapitiya on the podcast.
Love your channel. Keep the amazing interviews coming! My 🧠 loves them!
Eric: I’m loving the intellectual diversity in your roster as of late. Keep the conversations flowing.
Excellent podcast thank you so much Eric. Looking forward to future episodes!
They're both on the spectrum and I'm grateful for that :)
I came here from the Eric and Peter's podcast yesterday. Eric and I are impressed by this visionary named Vitalik. Look forward to the folow up.
That Freudian slip had me dying for a good minute 😁 20:24
@aidanhall6679
2 жыл бұрын
😂😂😂😂
Eric, please do solo podcasts where you expand on some of your views, especially on your research on immigration, your ideas about the EGO in various industries, and related topics. I think it would be beneficial for everyone to establish a better frame of reference with your conversations.
Off the charts good. Next time 4 hour interview PLEASE PLEASE ❤️🙏❤️
It would be easy to dismiss Vitalik at first glance, but he is a bona fide intellectual titan.
Best episode yet by far. You guys should do this monthly.
Saliently brilliant young man on the spectrum who attempts to model social interactions and governance structures in code. Problem for these large scale projects is reinventing existing power structures which require a good understanding of everything that exists. But, for a moment, imagine community is NOT the society and police is NOT the substrate?
@surfacereflection8298
4 жыл бұрын
So what?
@groupchat2554
4 жыл бұрын
The problem with this is that its not a mainstream academic idea that can be discussed in terms of trying to knit into a social study to gleem any citizen facing use in the realm of governance.
@groupchat2554
4 жыл бұрын
Also to the point of public goods or better common goods. State car insurance could be something one can approach the use of etheruem on because a vehicle type akd operator characteristics would essentially provide all the contract would need to know to put it into an actuarial table and spit out the Communist boot licking blood drenched number for your monthly credit amount which could be taken out as a property tax. Etheruem and blockchain is by far the biggest step man has taken in automating financial governance ever and will be the a contentious divide between the old way and the new wave of governance of the future. Private markets arenr what this is for its all public baby.
@DrLimbic
4 жыл бұрын
@@groupchat2554 where money supply comes from and fractional exchange are not very mainstream ideas either. There are a lot of academic ideas that are not mainstream having to do with gradual redistribution of wealth towards the top and attrition of the rights of citizen- workers ( Weinstein touches on this in his discussion with Harris). The problem is that our imperfect banking system is a result of thousands of little changes to the existing economic structure. Insofar as economics are an expression of social dynamics, it is a gradual social change. Buterin tries to simulate it and improve on it in various ways because he thinks he knows social dynamics. But as he may be aware, Kahneman et al opened up a can of worms when they upended classical economics, and this may be just the tip of the iceberg of all that we don't know about economics. Unless smart contracts are modeled in such a way as to evolve to absorb exceptions to the coded rules (which is antithetical to the definition of trustlessness), they will do more harm than good.
@groupchat2554
4 жыл бұрын
@@DrLimbic ive never heard of K, would you mind summing up what he found that upended some economic principles? The most interesting experiment in domestic policy and banking would be a federal rent cap for commerical and residential business. It would literally be thr first time in history that a whole democratic nation pushed capital down. Its been done in Syria where everyone had free housing. Im sure what leaders of Dictatorships prefer is different than what leadees of an Empire prefer at home which is free homes for the loyalist.
Eric your concerns about bitcoin can basically all be solved with second layer solutions like the lightning network. And to some extend they already are. To give some examples: All transactions are recorded on public chain, the fact that every transaction needs to be settled on chain, that there are no local rules to resolve the double spending issue, ...
Wow these last few uploads have been fantastic I love the state of the portal atm you do great work and it is definitely appreciated keep on doing what you do please
Nicely done while also keeping the less technically savvy of us to follow through with relative ease!!👏👏
Thank you, Eric! Great interview
Interesting! I didn't think i'd ever listen to an interview with vitalik that is not about ethereum.
Listen carefully. Eric very compassionately challenges Vitalik. He asks how he is EMOTIONALLY a couple of times. Almost causing a short circuit. Also subtly questions him on getting rich building Eth. “Hmm...”. Also telling him Eth is too complicated. Purposeful Obfuscation??? Vitalik is a true anomaly in that he is extremely intelligent and extremely naive. Just like his protocol!!!! ERIC get Antonopoulous or Trace Mayer on The Portal. Your voice is so important Eric. Thank you.
Amazing how empathic Vitaly is. It seems to me that he is already a "streem enterer" from past life's...
Amazing guests Eric!
Around 19:00 the assertion crypto replaces government monopoly of violence with coorperation is a bit of a stretch. Capital stores violence as potential energy, creating space for cooperation, at the expense of greater and greater risk of catestrophic failure. I think Vitalik is hiding the problem of war under a bunch of shells until most people can't find it. I like Eric's allusion to Clausewitz earlier ("continuation by other means"), and would like to see an interview with a military strategist on this show, in particular, retired General David Petraeus. Money buys security. It also buys other things, but we can't hand wave the threat of violence away. I comment as I watch, so if they clarify something later, my apologies.
@gaulindidier5995
4 жыл бұрын
You know what, that was a great addition to the conversation. Felt like saying it.
@danielbrooks7764
4 жыл бұрын
@@gaulindidier5995 it's a shame that a lot of great stuff gets buried in the comments section after all of the likes go to the people who comment first. Thanks, I appreciate it.
@gaulindidier5995
4 жыл бұрын
Daniel Brooks This is the type of conversation that should trickle down from those kinds of podcasts.
@momoaraki7934
4 жыл бұрын
Fun line of inquiry indeed!
Eric makes me feel like a Neanderthal.
@cryptocrush-823
4 жыл бұрын
Betul Yalcin that’s better than how I’m feeling right now...nematode’ish. 😄
@deejaye2647
4 жыл бұрын
Me too!
Eric, thank you! For being you and all you do. Gives me hope (iota, but hope nonetheless)
I was hoping I'd be able to listen to this in a casual way while doing other things...wrong. But rather than shrugging and moving on, I am going to dedicate the time to listen for as much comprehension as I can muster, and I'm glad I can. cheers.
@416dl
4 жыл бұрын
A fresh morning and a second listen. I'm even more informed and impressed and further enlightened. Look forward to more from your guest.
I love the idea that publicity skills are half correlated with competence, that explains my low social status right now..
I empathize with the interviewer completely when he says he feels he is being lied to by everybody in the institutions, other than that a very good discussion well above my intellect.
1:00:20 "If you "grok" how to "walk" you get a lot. I loved this line.
Considering that this guy did the voice for the Speak & Spell, he's aged very well.
I love how casually "Ted" was mentioned at the end, I wonder what Eric thinks about his anti-tech philosophy and how the current dirth of technological innovations might mesh with that mindset. It seems that you can get people to call into a podcast from prison, it's been done before... Just floating that idea out there!
@crhu319
3 жыл бұрын
Why not? Julian Assange too.
Love the title
Best podcast chat of all time
Good on you sir! Very good dialog.
Would enjoy a show with Nick Szabo for some counterpoint. Keep up the awesome podcasting!
Amazing chat thank you 🙏
6:30 This admission has two huge asterisks associated with it. 1. The lack of fantasy for how exclusion can happen has caused many economists to claim that there was a public goods issue in areas that had for centuries already been solved by market actors. The prime examples being light houses with ships and beekeepers with orchards. 2. Just because the economists have found cases that do not live up to their ideal models of perfect competition, and where one might legitimately speak of a public good, does not mean that that a better alternative exists. It especially does not mean that government intervention is automatically justified. It may be that we just have to live with free riders, if our only alternatives are governments that are riddled with even more perverse incentive problems.
GREAT interview!
Amazing podcast with two great minds.
Love this talk!
Confidence (aka clear vision) can always be construed as “taking advantage” of the situation.
Awesome... First person which actually made it seem that Eric was an interviewer instead of donkey carrying Eric's payload.
I'll openly admit that I'm trying to watch and listen.. moments later I'm checking my email or planning trades.. When I realize my distraction and begin to listen to these guys again, I'm quick to understand I am incapable...
wow, props for having Vitalik on.
i need more of this!
@Mr Weinstein please look into getting Andreas Antonopoulos on "The Portal"
Vitalik has almost no ego, happy a person like that gets so big
1:00:30 I'm not sure that the difficulty of understanding concurrency is due to jargon or obtuseness or anything like that. I think there have been many people who have made venerable efforts to explain it to the educated layperson. At this point I think the issue probably boils down to how complicated the subject matter is. 1. Hash functions, 2. Proof of Work from a hash function, 3. Hashes for verification (how blocks are linked), 4. Merkle trees built from hash functions (for transaction validation). And that's just one area, not even touching on the whole area of asymmetric crypto, p2p data exchange or the game theory aspects of how mining works.
Great episode
Great interviewer! At last someone who understands things and can interview on a proper level.
just found this. it was great. thankyou