There’s been several comments regarding the Saturn “screenshots” part of the video, and I thought I’d pin a comment to clear up the context used. The screenshots are from poor emulation of the Model 3 game. In the video I say, “Screenshots of the supposed Saturn version have been doing the rounds for over 15 years”. Had I been on camera I’d have used the quotation mark hand gesture while saying, “Supposed”. With so much old forum chatter and hearsay around Saturn Virtua Fighter 3, I didn’t want to pad the video out with information that wasn’t factual and chose to present the Saturn version as a small history note - sadly, in voice only, it appears some viewers believe I’m presenting the screenshots as actual Saturn footage, which is not the case. I hope this clears up any dubiety and that you enjoy the video. Thanks for watching. James.

@orderofmagnitude-TPATP

11 ай бұрын

Cool man. Your honesty goes a long way.

@masterfuckerfuckface3376

11 ай бұрын

Can you tell us why the Japanese version of SEGA RALLY 2 runs the best?

@orderofmagnitude-TPATP

11 ай бұрын

@@masterfuckerfuckface3376 because it runs at 60hz not 50hz... or locked to 30fps in which there is a cheat for this on euro version.

@SEGAGuys

11 ай бұрын

@@masterfuckerfuckface3376 There’s a video on Sega Rally 2 for a previous SEGAGuys Race here on the channel. Long story short, the Japanese one has a higher upper frame rate and the dips are far less jarring than the western versions which, I believe, were capped at 30fps which didn’t eradicate the frame rate drops and made the game feel even more sluggish overall.

@DragonSlayerKyo

10 ай бұрын

@@SEGAGuys yeah. There's also a code that pretty much cuts everything down in order to target 60fps, but it still doesn't really fix anything.

I do miss the more three dimensional level designs with their ups and downs like hills/steps/building roofs

@superstew79

8 ай бұрын

@@geesehoward7261 otb? Dead or alive dropped its 3 dimensional levels too and went with a more flat plain battlefield

@superstew79

8 ай бұрын

@@geesehoward7261 like tekken 7 and 8 you mean? Just constant air juggle combos

@youuuuuuuuuuutube

2 ай бұрын

@@geesehoward7261 The VF2 jumps were pretty bad though.

Genki was formed by ex-AM2 members..also, Yu Suzuki-San was supervising the conversion. With next to no dev kit and time contrains, Genki did an overall good job. On the other side SR2, with the choosen Windows CE platform, was a graphical mess: unstable 30fps, 20 fps maybe in split screen, with half draw distance; content-wise was a good port indeed. The first game to really show DC power was Dead or Alive 2, a graphic triumph: SC2 was a great looker but still based on a System12 board game, DoA2 graphical complexity was/is miles ahead.

@patrickholt8782

8 ай бұрын

What game is SR2?

@vitorrodrigues5735

8 ай бұрын

@@patrickholt8782 Sega Rally 2

@vitorrodrigues5735

8 ай бұрын

SC2 is not System 12, but a board ps2 board based Team Andromeda. SR2, VF3 etc its simple Model 3 > Dreamcast

@slashrose3287

8 ай бұрын

@@vitorrodrigues5735 Of course Soul Calibur 2 is PS2 arcade board (System 246), i was referring to OG SC (System 12, a beefed up System11/PSX with 50% power added), which was converted to DC in 1999 with a complete grahic overhaul (still not on par with Dead or Alive 2 , produced targeting DC hw. Model 3 is not more powerful than DC, in fact it's the opposite: DC is up to 3 millions poly/s where latest Model 3 revision (2.0) is 2 millions/s.

@vitorrodrigues5735

8 ай бұрын

@@slashrose3287 but you wrote SC2. Really SC1 in the Dreamcast version is a next gen game, SC1 arcade is pretty much a 60fps Soul Edge of course. Model 3 uses quads as polygons 1 quad , 2 triangles, it is also a cartridge based system, this means that the available ram and vram are greater than nominal. The Model 3 step 2, there is no debate, it is superior

The Dreamcast versions from Daytona USA and Vitua Fighter 3 TB was an exellent Job....Thanx Genki 4 the greats Ports

I'd love to see modern ports of these classic sega games.model 1 2 and 3 ports would be great 👍

Brilliant video as always James, I can still remember seeing that VF3 logo in every other OSSM issue and reading about that the Saturn version was “still coming” but then nothing more than that Seeing the 3TB version on my brothers DC in November 1998 my little mind was blown and I hadn’t even played it in the arcade - like you said - the leap from playing games like saga, and even tekken 3 a few months prior to this was unbelievable and it’s such a shame that leap we just don’t see anymore between generations

Criminally so behind on this series, have heard this port is interesting to say the least but didn't realise how little time Genki were afforded with this port. Definitely one to check out soon. Great coverage as always guys.

I loved VF since it came in the arcades, i played tons of VF2 in a cabinet in my town, but as a teenager i couldnt afford having a Saturn, so VF3 was the game i picked when the DC released and man, i was amazed, still has a special place in my heart, i do really think Genki did a really great job.

I really love Virtua fighter 2 and Virtua fighter

Hey me brothers! Now we have a absolutely fame changing game being shown here for me. Walking by a wee game shop in Partick one day & seeing this in the window demo running had me stop in my tracks. Knew then & there my Saturn would have to be sold to get my hamds on thos next gen leap forward. Between Sonic & VF3tb i couldn't believe how much it felt like arcade had come home. Don't think my friends saw me for weeks lol So many great memories of this 👍🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿😎

VF3 was great on DC, devs did a good job considering the time allowance. Shame how the game series has been left with no update, imho the lacking extra content and near no storyline hindered the series long term appeal in the west, but can’t deny the importance and impact. Great overview 👌

@richfan10

11 ай бұрын

yeah totally agree; as much as I love Sega Saturn and the Dreamcast; Sega really didn't do themselves any favours by just porting their arcade stuff over with no extras - I remember seeing all the extra stuff on Tekken 3 on PSX, made Sega look really stupid

@SEGASaturnLad

11 ай бұрын

@@richfan10yeah was a time when we expected more, some games like Rally worked due to the addictive nature and mastering the tracks, but fighters need a solid foundation with story and fleshed out characters, on top of great gameplay.

@richfan10

11 ай бұрын

@@SEGASaturnLadjust to add to what I said I remember getting Manx TT on my Saturn - the absolute balls on Sega to put that game out with 2 tracks 🤣

Great video and footage!

@SEGAGuys

6 ай бұрын

Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it.

The reality for me, as it was when I got it at launch, was this simple. VF3 was just not as good or as fun as VF2. I thought it lacked the colour and the charm of VF2. Perhaps it was the increase in polygons, how the characters lost their somewhat "cartoony" appearance and became somewhat taller and more realistic in their bodily dimensions, hard for me to describe. This could all be because I lived and breathed VF2 on my Saturn, but ultimately I played to death Powerstone, Soul Calibur, Dead or Alive 2, Street Fighter 3/Alpha 3, Marvel VS Capcom 1&2, Capcom VS SNK 1&2, Garou Mark of Wolves, Fighting Vipers 2 etc etc. The Dreamcast was the height of fighting games back then and I still lived and breathed that fighting game life, so I think it's not just nostalgia for VF2. I think ultimately VF3 was a more of the same like experience, but it lost something along the way and I can't say the same for VF4 or VF5, both of which I rate over VF3. The Dreamcast port of VF3 wasn't my issue, I think it was just VF3 itself, which left it side lined against other fighters that gen which went to the next level at home or offered something more exciting. Great game, great conversion, but just not the best Virtua Fighter at a time where other fighters learnt from the earlier VF's and started branching out. Anyway, just how I feel. Great video as always.

Great video James. I need to play more 3TB

Great video guys, I was super excited to pick this game up and I thought it was awesome! I was really surprised at how negative a lot of the magazines were being about the conversion, I mean as you say it was a twenty grand board being replicated on a two hundred quid console and they pretty much nailed it. The only thing I could see was the textures were a little blurrier, but everything else seemed spot on to me, I found the journalists comments to be a bit bizarre all things considered. But I had a great time with it so I wasn’t too fussed about what they were banging on about. It was great! Awesome video again guys, very interesting and informative!

@SEGAGuys

11 ай бұрын

Cheers Dibbs, much appreciated! - James.

I didn't mind the graphics. I enjoyed the game, but it just lacked content. I understand this after rushing to get it out for the Japanese launch, but for the PAL version it should have had much more added content. Tokyo Highway Challenge, also by Genki is one of my all time favourite games.

When you say Genki, I hear Shutoko Battle series.... I love thoses games.

I'm 47 years old, in ill health... it saddens me to no end that Sega hasn't done VF6 or at least ported VF5 to PC. I don't have time or money for consoles these days, I play games on PC. Ahh well... won't be the first time Sega broke my heart.

Good stuff

I can picture this scene sooo vividly in my head. The clearance of the Saturn. What a breathe of fresh air that must have been. Bottles of champaign in the office. Finally, finally that overcomplicated piece of junk was off the shelves. The clunky Sega Model 3 made its final scud race to the scrapyard, Hallelujah. Long live the Naomi. And then some sad Seichii Yukawa comes down from the sales management floor asking for Daytona USA and 1996 - Nineteen Ninety Six - Virtua Fighter 3 on the Dreamcast. Tipsy Yu Suzuki replies : "are you having a laugh mate ? You can suck an egg. I am making Ferrari F355 Challenge. Stick Daytona and Virtua Fighter where the sun don't shine." Apparently, not everybody gave Seichii Yukawa the middle finger because we had Confidential Mission, Sega Rally 2 and Dynamite Cop all of which were bad, what a surprise. But I can't blame Genki of making a game that should not have existed in the first place.

@SEGAGuys

Жыл бұрын

You need to watch the video when it releases mate - you’ll learn a thing or two. 😉

I think early screenshots of the DC version looked a bit off , but the final game was actually pretty close to arcade . Weird fingers aside it looked and played nicely

I need vf3 with soulcalibure stepping

If I had to pick one Dreamcast fighting game it would be this, the gameplay has the most depth, shame we didn’t get VF4 the colors and crispy clear textures would have looked better than PS2

Why have they stopped porting the old sega games to the switch? I love them and wanted more 💔

I can only be thankful that such games had a console port and as we are now in an era where people like is in our mid 30s, appreciate the gameplay and performanxe more than the graphics, when i see a game playing with full 60fps and having the full identical gameplay i regarded it as 1:1 port.

Good video. Whilst it wasn't port perfect - this doesn't mean it isn't a bad game still as you've said. I had no comparison to the arcade when I VERY recently played 3TB but I felt it was a great running game overall. It wasn't unfair. It ran nicely and I thoroughly enjoyed it, even if it was stuck at 50hz in PAL.

@SEGAGuys

11 ай бұрын

Cheers Martin. Just a heads up, if you connect your PAL Dreamcast via VGA, VF3tb will run at 60Hz. It just doesn’t have the 60Hz option on the menu like most Dreamcast games.

@TheRetroMartin

11 ай бұрын

@@SEGAGuys AHH cheers. Wasn't aware of that. Currently I'm being VERY sacrilegious as I ONLY have an RF unit for my DC 😂 not even a SCART!

Wow what a video! Anyway in my opinion the last virtua fighter is vf esports, which is 2 or 3 years old

@SEGAGuys

11 ай бұрын

Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it. Sadly VF eSports is just another version of Virtua Fighter 5 Ultimate Showdown, it’s not a brand new entry … the last true *new* entry in the series was 17 years ago when the original VF5 hit. Since then it’s just been updates and reskins like Final/Ultimate Showdown and eSports. Give us VF6, SEGA! 🙏🏻

@gisone79

11 ай бұрын

@@SEGAGuys i absolutely agree! We've seen Akira in Doa and other crossovers, but we desperately need VF6

I liked this

Huh... i never noticed shun dis legs (lower poly count)

While I agree that VF3tb on Dreamcast played very well, Sega should have done a better job with their flagship titles. Looking at Soul Caliber and especially Dead or Alive 2, VF3 didn’t hold a candle to it visually…and it should have. Plus Sega should have added extra content. VF3 is one of their arcade flagships for cripes sake.

@wordsshackles441

4 ай бұрын

Agreed. Should have had a graphical overhaul.

It's a shame that a video, which is supposed to educate, shows supposed Saturn screenshots, which are nothing more than early Model 3 emulation attempts with broken textures and no proper shading. This is extremely problematic as it continues to spread wrong information. There is no existing footage and especially no direct capture screenshots. Ask yourself if there are any direct capture screenshots at that resolution of any SEGA game from that time.

@SEGAGuys

11 ай бұрын

“Screenshots of the SUPPOSED Saturn version have been doing the rounds online for over 15 years”. It’s important to listen to the words used. There are umpteen threads online with all kinds of fan theories, some of them going back as far as 2007, including the later mentioned potential scenario of them being corrupt Model 3 emulation footage. However I wasn’t going to bog the video down by regurgitating various forum debates from years ago which would confirm nothing to the viewer and just unnecessarily pad out the video. What DOES matter is the Saturn version was confirmed by Suzuki, and that’s what included. Again, there are umpteen forum threads with conspiracies and stories claiming why and how Sega of Japan canning it at “the last minute”, but with that information being unconfirmed with no quotes, I deliberately left it out as it’s not factual and, like I said, would just have padded out the video without telling the viewer anything. We don’t do misinformation on this channel. Thanks for watching. - James.

@MrMord3n

11 ай бұрын

@@SEGAGuys My comment wasn't supposed to be mean spirited in any way. I'm just against the misinformation. This IS corrupt Model 3 emulation. Any conspiracy theories and duscussions stem from people getting fooled it's anything else. Hit David Haywood or a Model 3 emu dev up and they'll confirm it for you.

@SEGAGuys

11 ай бұрын

@@MrMord3nWe share the same goal then, misinformation is a huge bugbear of ours also. I felt I had to include a reference to the Saturn version that never was, but as I said, having gone down the rabbit hole of presenting the information in various forums (and I done a ton of searching) I decided to literally chop the Saturn part of the video and the script that accompanied it and merely make reference to the “supposed” Saturn screenshots - I had hoped using that language would have avoided any dubiety, but unfortunately may have inadvertently created some which was not intended. Appreciate you reaching out and hope that other than that slight issue, you enjoyed what we put together. - James.

I loved Virtua Fighter 2 on Saturn as well Fighters Megamix and was looking forward to the Saturn version but for obvious reasons that didn't happen. When I got my Dreamcast on launch Soul Calibur completely blew this out the water - even Dead or Alive 2 (I thought) was better

@SEGAGuys

11 ай бұрын

Ive always felt VF3tb is a victim of timing, in November 1998 I thought it was spectacular and that still was the case when I got my DC in April 1999. Soulcalibur did blow it away, though it arrived 9 months later and Dead or Alive 2 was 15 months after the launch of VF3tb, you have to think if the DC launched globally in 1998 or Genki had the extra time afforded to them that Soulcalibur or DoA2 had, VF3tb may have been held in higher regard. As is the early Japan release and late Western launch killed its impact and momentum - Dan

@richfan10

11 ай бұрын

I don't know why I dint get VF3 sooner (I loved Sega' 3D fighters on Saturn), only launch game I had was Sonic Adventure renting was still a thing back then so I didn't buy anything else for a while ... think I remember that VF3 wasn't scored that high? Or the gaming mags at the time didn't give too much praise maybe put me off. but yeah knocking this game out in 3-months is an achievement - as for Genki I've always wanted to try our their Tokyo racing games @@SEGAGuys

@SEGAGuys

11 ай бұрын

@@richfan10Yeah, when it came to the UK and US it was alongside Soulcalibur and Power Stone and didn’t have a chance to shine. Apart from die hard VF fans, it was likely over looked easily by western Dreamcast owners. For that magic window near the start of the consoles life in Japan, it was just mind blowing to see at home. - James.

@richfan10

11 ай бұрын

@@SEGAGuys I did appreciate that sega put some of the VF3 moves & music in fighters mega mix 😎

I think Genki did an awesome job. I don't really hey all the criticism. The same bullshit went on with Daytona... and people have the face to ask why the Dreamcast failed.... they killed it!!

Virtua Joel Perez join virtua fighter 6

Nice to see someone take the trouble to compare the Arcade version of VF3TB to the DC VFTB and not VF3 Model 3 to the VF3TB on DC. For me, the game is 90 to 95% perfect on the DC only small issues makimg it, not quite perfect. The low Res 2D backgrounds are issues Shenmue suffers from too.

@SEGAGuys

11 ай бұрын

Appreciate you taking the time to comment and check out the video, glad you enjoyed it. It’s a port which gets far more retrospective criticism than it deserves, and it holds a lot of special memories for me personally. Cheers! - James.

@SwitchRetroGaming

11 ай бұрын

@@SEGAGuys it's so nice to see someone give credit to the DC port and also compared the TB versions . Even on the Model 3 version the gfx had a downgrade maybe for the 1st person mode ?

@SEGAGuys

11 ай бұрын

@@SwitchRetroGaming You know, I’d seen it mentioned somewhere a while back that TB is “toned down” somewhat from vanilla VF3 for that very reason but couldn’t find confirmation. I ran VF3 and TB in SuperModel, and even tried legacy mode to remove as many “enhancements” as possible on the emulator end, but I couldn’t see anything … again, the emulator could be working it’s magic. - James.

I remember reading this in sega Saturn mag.... In fact life dictated i had to sell my entire console and game collection... Alas I still have about 90% of every sega Saturn magazine uk (Seeing as I have no use for them if anyone has any missing issues and wants me too sell...I can talk....sorry didn't mean to shill on your channel lol)

@SEGAGuys

11 ай бұрын

If you’re based in the UK give Marc at SEGAMags a shout. 👍🏻

@orderofmagnitude-TPATP

11 ай бұрын

@@SEGAGuys sure! Many thanks for the direction. If I still had my collection, I'd wanna keep them. But because I had to sell, its a bit redundant. I loved that publication. Especially the demos which I obviously don't have anymore.... Iam very grateful for emulation.

@orderofmagnitude-TPATP

11 ай бұрын

​​@@SEGAGuysdo you know him? - aka to talk too? I tried, trying to tag him and...well...can't find him. If you could pass on my channel link and that i have lots of sega Saturn mags bla bla...that would be ace. If not don't worry, not end of the world. Yes I'm in uk btw

Nah, the games after this were fire though and I really hope SEGA don't fuck up 6.

Ha! Some dreamcast level set pieces actually look BETTER than the model 3!! .....although some do look worse. Subway with the train as example.

Funnny how VF3 on Dreamcast has this terrible reputation for being inferior to its arcade counterpart, whereas VF4 on the PS2 somehow completely avoids this reputation even though it looks waaay softer than VF4 arcade compared to the difference between VF3 Dreamcast and VF3 arcade. With that said, I'm glad that Sega finally released a VF3 arcade port in the newest Yakuza game, and I hope they do the same for the VF4 arcade version.

those arent saturn screen shots - they are form mame emulation

@SEGAGuys

11 ай бұрын

Correct. Sadly it appears the context in which I used them hasn’t gone down as intended with some viewers. Had I been on camera I’d have used the quotation mark gesture while saying “supposed”.

Sega was always rushing and playing catch up. The port being rushed is down to their own mismanagement. Brand new wonder console, let's not give ourselves enough time to support it properly. Arcade perfect ports of Daytona and VF2 would have still been appreciated, never occurred to them.

The DC versions of VF3 and Sega Rally 2 smashed the dream of a dreamcast

Virtua fighter yugioh

i own DC -japo version- since Jan99 with VF3tb. Only morons can criticize Vf3tb for Dreamcast. Despite some minor graphical differences, the game plays and feels just like the millionaire and super sophisticated M3 coin-op.

Meh, I dunno why you keep bringing up Soulcalibur as some kind of showpiece, Dreamcast got way more impressive games later on. It was a great launch (ish) title, a great and polished overall package, but it's barely tapping into Dreamcast's power and isn't the game to look at as a showcase of Dreamcast's capabilities (in any context other than the launch and in comparison to the low fidelity arcade original game it's derived from). It's technically very modest with low polygon character models and heavy use of 2D elements for the arenas. While aesthetically VF3tb may not hold a candle to it, it certainly pushes far more polygons and animation variety to name a couple major points (owing to the uneven surfaces available alongside the flat arenas). They're certainly not as well arranged and utilized polygons but that's not the fault of the port but rather the once pioneering but by the year 1999 outdated in many ways 1996 original arcade game. They did the best they could and short of having a couple years to remake and overhaul the visuals with more mature technique and artistry, I doubt any studio could do better. The fighting game to showcase Dreamcast's capabilities is of course Dead or Alive 2 (the improved Japanese version more so) which actually pushes character models of higher complexity than the various versions of Virtua Fighter 4 on PlayStation 2 (the arcade had double as much but again owing to more mature techniques and artistry you can't easily tell and they look miles beyond VF3tb despite being similar in complexity, Soulcalibur's on the other hand are expertly made but again half as complex as VF3tb's on average). Even more impressively in Dead or Alive 2 you can have as many as 3 characters on screen during tag moves (granted tag battle is only available in a simpler specialized arena, but even TTT on PlayStation 2 didn't do this as during tag moves one character always went off screen before the next jumped in for their bit).Outside tag mode it even has the uneven arenas of VF3tb, on steroids given the multiple levels of some. It's the proof that Dreamcast could have gotten an excellent port of Virtua Fighter 4, had it lived a little longer, instead of the PlayStation 2. They'd probably have to remove things like the deforming snow but that's easily solved by just removing that (and any similar) arena (if not simply altering them to a different season/theme without those elements on their floor). If only...

The dc version looks 10x worse, especially textures and lighting. Along with SR2, this is the worst console port.

If Soul Calibur and DoA2 hadn't set the bar so high, the VF3 port would have received better praise over the years. Both of those games, especially DoA2 with its large stages and higher polygon characters, proved that VF3's graphics could have basically matched the arcade. The only graphical downgrade should have been the texture resolution due to the DC's lower VRAM. There's simply no way around that limitation, but everything else could have, and should have, matched the arcade. Another serious issue was the relative lack of extra content in the DC port, which again those other two fighters did extremely well. At the time i never bought VF3 because of these reasons even though i was a big fan of VF and loved the Saturn port of VF2. But by this point in time i was very VERY tired of Sega's home ports not offering enough extra content over the very limited content of their arcade counterparts, yet Sega would still change full price for these games. The gameplay and everything else was clearly there, these games could have blown their PSX competitors out of the water, but they never put in the effort with some serious extra content... Still annoys me to this day. I mean, imagine Sega Rally with double the tracks and cars. Would have been ridiculously good at the time. But anyway... When the DC launched in the UK we already had Soul Calibur, which was the obvious choice over VF3. That's the game that blew me away when i powered up my DC for the first time, and i'm glad it was because VF3 probably would have disappointed me, at least a little, being as i'd already played the superior arcade version.

@SEGAGuys

11 ай бұрын

Yeah, that was VF3’s main problem. By the time the console came west, Soulcalibur and Power Stone were launch titles (DOA2 followed closely after). - James.

@wordsshackles441

4 ай бұрын

VF3 on DC should have been overhauled and should have looked much better than the Model3 game. Texture is not an issue since DC supports VQ compression. That’s why DC runs games in higher resolution to boot. Compression ratio is aroun 1:4 depending. So the 8mb of VRAM are effectively 32mb, an absolutely astronomical number at the time. Ask Sony. Lol