I hear you when it comes to youtube going down the toilet at a rapid pace. Sadly I don't see any other platform taking it's place anytime soon. Comments also get deleted randomly, or never appear, which is a long standing bug. Thanks for putting these videos out there! It's a shame that repairability was obviously the very last concern while they were designing this. From what I've seen the failure rate on these is quite low, but still I will ping the Dutch owner/ceo about future repairability in the victron forums. He's very active there and they very much take user input into account while developing their products, so who knows...

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

It certainly is a shame that the potting is so engineered as to make the unit unserviceable, cheers.

@SurvivalSquirrel

Ай бұрын

Seems like youtube wants to get rid of the small channels, because they dont generate money and need a lot of file storage!

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

​@@SurvivalSquirrel and so continuous "will it start videos" and a race to the bottom. Cheers

yeh they charge an arm and leg and making them near impossible for simple repairs now

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

Things have changed over the years, for the worse, cheers

This victron mppt is designed to buy and scrap. There are many other companies that is easy to open and repair his inwerters or mppt. Studer for example.

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

I've seen Studer equipment, very solid, cheers

victron totally made it unrepairable.

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

I think it's time for the angle grinder on the next one, cheers

I was struggling to see properly as Im on a phone but were the FETs attached to the heat sink with rivets or screws? If rivets, I would drill them all out and then that would give access to desolder the coils and caps. I have 3 of the 100/50 mppts and a 3kva multiplus.. they have always been very reliable, even the single second hand one I have. They are pushing the full 50A most days.

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

They are screwed in place, but from the inside. Heat is the slow killer, who knows what these have been subjected to. A small external fan on a time switch will help to make yours last longer, cheers

Maybe drilling the bolts on the 14 mosfets attached to the black heat sink so that they are released. The thread in heat sink will be damaged so a solution to fix that will be needed. Then once the black heat sink is removed desolder the two coils and the 8 capacitors that are potted. Victron offers 5 years warranty so I guess they are confident about their design and if it fails during warranty then they will just replace the entire device. This are 3000W+ DC-DC converters and even with their excellent 98% efficiency it is still over 60W of heat that they need to deal with thus the reason for potting the inductor and capacitors. It also help with vibrations but main reason to pot the inductors is cooling. They could have designed so that is repairable but the extra cost of doing that is probably higher than just replacing a few units that fail within the 5 years warranty period.

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

Hi, good idea, it may be that the fault could be just in the FETs and then small through bolts could be used giving a little flexibility with placement. I think some investigation is required to find out why the generation is not getting through. The fuses are not blown so it may not be the FETs. Cheers

@tullgutten

Ай бұрын

Can probably put some screws on the transistors and glue them so it doesn't spin and carfully assemble and put nuts on the heat sink side at the end, just keep in mind any isolation between transistor and screws if it is allready insulated between the heat sink

Perhaps before opening, cutaway the front case carefully to isolate the moulded portions for the coils? Digging in the dark to try though! I'm guessing some of the switching fets have shorted.

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

Yes, I was working on the success from removing the top of a smaller unit. The other not working unit will have the top cut to bits, using this top as a template and hopefully giving precise measurements. The I can get to the screws that hold the FETs to the heat sink, cheers

Thats why I bought SRNE MPPTs MAserie, they have huge passive cooling body and can be took apart easy if they fail, whats unlikely, cause I mounted 3 pcs 40mm PC fans underneath powered via a temperature switch.

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

Interesting and yes I use small snail fans controlled with a time switch, cheers

If it gets hot in use put a fan on the passive radiator. OR you can make a chimney over it so all the hot air rising will pick up speed and improve the passive heat sink without any extra powered fans

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

Hi, yes small external fans blowing air up the heat sink, all controlled by a plug in timer. Only runs when the panels are generating, cheers

After watching your first teardown a while ago, purchased renogy MPPT . Victron charge a premium for their MPPT controller then slap you in the face.

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

KZread has some value, be a shame to loose the wealth of stored knowledge, cheers

They do this because they want to cool the coils, this is okay, but it could be done in a more repairable way. This Victron controller are to big in my opinion. I do it in an other way, I build my own MPPT-controller right now, but I will use one MPPT-device per Panel. The Battery is a LiFePO4 battery (48V/280Ah ) with 16 cells in line and it have this voltages: 40V if it is totally depleted. 48V empty 51.2V ideal empty condition 52.8V (nominal voltage) 55.2V ideal full 58.4V (100% full) So the voltage of the Battery should be between 51,2V and 55.2V in ideal conditions. (In winter at -20°C without load the PV-module can have 57.4V, but the battery protection stops charging at 55.2V and this is not a problem. If I have to much Energy, I can send it to the grid or use it for heating or I waste the energy over a big load.) The PV-module has during MPPT-conditions around 39-48V @ 10A, so I use a StepUp converter which can drive much more than 10A and it must make nearly nothing, only increase the voltage a bit. With synchronous switching it will have nearly no losses and the size of the PCB is around 5x5cm. Because of the Step-Up converter design no current can flow back into the panel, so you can put every panel in parallel without that you would get any damage because of a shadow over one panel. I have here 20 PV-modules, every MPPT-module will cost about 10 or 15€. (MosFET, driver, µController, PCB, housing, wireless module) This are 300€ without the cost of the work to build it, only the components. They are all connected over little wireless modules to a concentrator, so that I can read the temperature, voltage and current of each one and put it onto the home-website/database. - I can temporarily short circuit the PV-module if necessary, but because the microcontroller is using the voltage from the PV-module, the short circuit have to be released after some minutes for some milliseconds. I could add a 1F goldcap capacitor to increase the time. If I set the lowside MosFET on and go into deep sleep, then it can last for many hours. - The MPPT-module has a very low quiescence current, so that the battery will be loaded, even if the light conditions are very low, like in the winter. To repair it I can read the Debug- and log-data over USB or the wireless-modules, then I can understand what was/is going on. The housing is a little aluminium case which can be opened very easy. I remove the two screws which are holding the two MosFETs against the Aluminium, remove the two screws of the side-plate and then I can slide out the PCB.

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

Hi, this video has certainly brought people together on this issue. You are right in having multiple parallel controllers. Heat is the killer and small separate units built over spec is the answer, cheers

Thank you sir. What is the point of fuses is you cannot get to them?

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

I suppose they are there to help to reduce the risk of fire, and to make the unit unusable, cheers

@junkerzn7312

Ай бұрын

Basically they are there as a safety because these things are typically connected to batteries capable of pushing hundreds, sometimes thousands of amps if they get shorted. Since the output current is 100% regulated by the micro-controller, the fuses should never blow unless something truly critical has failed and shorted inside the unit. There is a second safety circuit in there but I'm not sure where... Victrons have a clamp feature on the solar input terminals to short them in-case a regulation failure causes the input voltage to pass-through to the battery, putting excessive voltage on the battery. Some of the FETs are probably dedicated to that purpose. The rest are part of the Buck circuit(s) (looks like there are two separate buck circuits in parallel inside the unit). -Matt

subbed m8. thanks. bought a 35$ 30A mppt controller on aliexp by EASUN, was considering viktron but atleast i can take this one apart... feels like about 35$ worth of copper inside so it cant be that bad.

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

Really difficult to know where to allocate hard won funds. I've found keeping units cool and not running too hard helps with reliability, cheers

Just more scrap electronics. This is disgraceful engineering design and completely contrary to the spirit of repairability.

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

Steve, I'm totally with you on this one, they should be ashamed, it's all profit driven from a company that at one time was seen as the leader. What next? a timing chip to kill electronics after so many working hours, just like makita batteries, cheers

@stevejagger8602

Ай бұрын

​@@TheInfoworksjust had this pop up in my KZread feed kzread.info/dash/bejne/mXdtp6iOeK7emMo.htmlsi=l-VRqrjjpJ0S8XCx Tricky Dicky has managed to get his Victron apart by screwing the unit down then applying heat from a heat gun and progressively praising the lid off.

You have to desolder them before ripping it apart

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

Yes, but I'm just working out which side of the board I need to get at for fault finding, cheers

I will never buy victron again after seeing this.

@TheInfoworks

21 күн бұрын

I think this is a bad example, my old Multi plus is still chugging away, cheers

oh nice, taking apart a Victron charge controller. I tried to do that on one of my smaller 75/15's that I broke (I tore a screw-head off on the terminal block), so I decided to use the opportunity to see what was inside... but the thing was mostly potted and full of salt (or something) as part of the heat dissipation mechanics. I didn't get very far. I always wanted to know what was inside. The potting is about vibration and heat dissipation. In fact, absolutely necessary for heat dissipation (not just the FETs. The inductors and capacitors need it as well). -Matt

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

Hi, I opened a 12 / 24 MPPT unit a few weeks ago, the heat gun worked. Next week I will be looking at the FETs as the fuse was blown, cheers

@user-fs3dg1po2z

Ай бұрын

The idea that potting is absolutely necessary for heat dissipation is ridiculous. If that were true we would see it in all high power electronics, including other mppts, inverters, amplifiers etc. And even if it were true they could still design it in a way that it could be taken apart without being destroyed. I've never seen potted caps in anything else. I have seen potted inductors in a grid tie inverter but it was designed such that disassembly was still possible. I can see it having some value for vibration, but again, still no need for designing it in way that it has to be destroyed to be taken apart.

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

@@user-fs3dg1po2z exactly, vibration yes, heat transfer no. It only needs a minimum level of compound, cheers

@junkerzn7312

Ай бұрын

@@user-fs3dg1po2z I disagree strongly. I am familiar with a multitude of brands, not just Victron. The only brand (for charge controllers) I know that is better than a Victron is SMA. That's it, out of around 100 brands that I am familiar with. Think about that for a moment. I have issues with some of Victron's other products, but not their charge controllers. These are commercial devices designed to deal with stresses that most consumer devices never have to deal with, out in the elements (to a point anyway), over a large temperature range, and operating at full power for decades without burning themselves out in the process. When we put these things in the field 99% of them had better still be working 20 years from now, and when one breaks you trash it and put in a new one, period end of story. You don't risk the entire rest of the system trying to repair burned out power electronics. That's just asking for it, because there are probably a whole lot more parts in there that also got stressed during the failure that you didn't replace. That includes potting. Potting is extremely important for commercial products of this type, particularly when operating in humid environments. It literally doubles or triples the life-span of the product to not have components like capacitors and inductors exposed to the elements or the air or allowed to vibrate or any number of other issues, including containment issues on failure, and for electrolytics... the electrolyte getting dried out or corrupted. So yes, I see potting all the time in high-amperage, non-servicable, fanless commercial power electronics. It's almost a requirement, to be frank, if you want something to last a long time (as in 25+ years). Potting, conformal coatings, huge heat sinks on FETs, fanless.... yah. All of these things are very common. So in this instance I disagree strongly with many of the comments here. I feel that a lot of these posters are not considering the many extremely important facetes of designing a product like this and are improperly focusing solely on repairability without considering what you lose to get it. this is an instance where you really can't have your cake and eat it too. -Matt

I guess the dremel is the only way in Andy, the video is a success in that it shows where to cut! But of course you end up without a cover. As for YT, ...

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

Luckily I have another to experiment with and so might have one cover, that's supposing it's fixable, cheers

I would design cups on top of the coils that are glued to the coils and then thermal pads between the cover and the cup, this way the coils are not firmly attached to the cover, the capacitors dont necessarily even need to be glued or just glue fromthe circuit board surface. Current system has EPEver 20A controller and plan is get bigger controller now, i have over 400W solarpanel output atm and i can utilize only ~280W 20A. I have been thinking about Victron, but this fuse problem has made me doubt the purchase and i rather think about the EPEver 40A controller.

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

Hi, I agree with your comments, makes other choices more attractive, cheers

Same thing with Apple products.

@bootsowen

Ай бұрын

not sure I agree, apple is very repairable, and always was, typically cheap spare parts came online quite quickly after a release. but now with apple the phones are still easy to take apart and replace parts, but you have to get apple to do it because of ID chips in the screen, battery, etc that are linked to the phone. This nonsense with victron is tricky, because even they can't take the thing apart to repair it. So either they have every confidence that their items won't fail, or they charge such a high margin that warranty repairs are dealt with by throwing a new item at the customer!

@fredrikbergquist5734

Ай бұрын

@@bootsowen Apple laptops has been easily reparable up to the M series, now they go into landfill. Or is sent to Africa. Victron charge a very high price compared to production cost it is designed in the Netherlands but is produced in India presumably with low salaries. US built inverters can be run full load continously but I would only run Chinese ones up to like 75% of rated load. But since the latter is third the price it is still worth it. Victrons inverters five years ago would lower the permissible load if run continously but they were as expensive then. Some KZreadrs in vans reported this. It was thermal shutdown. Victron never was a consumer company they started vith equipment for big luxury boats were the price wasn’t a problem.

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

@@bootsowen Owen, that's how it seems to me, having destroyed one in the name of find out, then the next one has more of a chance, cheers

Appalling. I've just watched the video ChrisFairbrother recommended. It's a good one and followup too on testing. That guy suggests cutting a slot out so you can see inside and properly mark out for drilling. Others suggest using more heat but then you'd need to know exactle where the potting is. Another suggested sacrificing the caps (as they dry out above 125c and are cheap to replace) to get the coil potting soft enough. 150v @80A is too much for a small passive heatsink like that.

@jamiesony3859

Ай бұрын

Your comment about the heat sink being under rated for X current and X voltage makes little sense without mentioning the FETs on resistance. The source voltage is totally irrelevant when talking about losses in the heat sunk FETs. It's only the voltage across the FETs that count towards the losses. Power dissipated in the FETs = I²R (current squared times the resistance) If the current is 80A and the fets on resistance = 20 miliohms, then the losses, in watts = 80² x 0.020 = 128 watts with a fet voltage drop of around 1.6 Volts (current times on resistance) If the FETs on resistance happens to be 10 miliohms then the dissepated energy would only be 64 watts at a voltage drop of 0.8 Volts The on resistance of new tech FETs is getting crazy low these days allowing for huge currents to be switched with minimal losses.

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

Ian, like all bits of kit these days the rating is only achieved under perfect conditions. In real life they fail, much better to run at a lower rate for a decade or more. I'm thinking of cutting the top from the other unit, just to see if I can fix it and deal with the top problem if I need to, cheers

@ianhelsbyservices

Ай бұрын

​@@jamiesony3859thank you for your reply! The information and perspective you share is exactly what this channel is about. I wonder if the resistance elsewhere in the circuit could contribute.

@ianhelsbyservices

Ай бұрын

​@@TheInfoworkshi Andy, perhaps these devices should have a duty cycle on their specifications. A lot of effort has gone into their design and manufacture. Is the pay back of repeat custom from blown units too enticing to fit larger FETs or limit their capability within a safe margin? It's a fine line to design them to fail often enough to get repeat custom but rare enough to not damage their reputation.

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

@@ianhelsbyservices Ian, I think applying rule 2 as a standard means buying an extra unit, but only buying it once. It's the same with grid inverters, pushed to the limit in enclosed poorly cooled areas, a disaster waiting to happen, cheers

Try oven heating. You can leave in for extended time to alllow the heat to soak in.

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

Hi, difficult, I wouldn't want to cook those capacitors, maybe gas mark 1, cheers

I think maybe victron are no longer able to compete with the cheap products which are widely available. I notice much of their stuff is 'on sale'. When you can buy 3 cheap inverters for the price of one victron what are you going to do?

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

I have good experience with the older Multi plus inverters, 25 Mw, 15 years and still going strong, but as you say the competition is getting better. The main thing is run them cool and not near rated output, cheers

Mighty big hunk of junk scrap. Great Video on those chargers. Victron needs to change their mind set. Those chargers get way too hot.

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

Just goes to prove the 2nd rule of solar, don't run equipment above 60% of capacity. I've got another and this time the cover gets cut into little bits, cheers

@SeanMoore2008

Ай бұрын

Nonsense, I regularly run my 250s at max, for hours, days .... yes they get hot, and yes they'll derate to self protect, but if you cook them with high ambient, or even direct heat they'll not be happy.

@SeanMoore2008

Ай бұрын

Why weren't these returned for investigation and warranty replacement ?

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

@@SeanMoore2008 Brexit rules

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

@@SeanMoore2008 Capacitors fail regularly when cooked, cheers

Take a dremmel and cut around the potting and then when you go back together tap some threads and silicone a aluminum plate on it.

@TheInfoworks

2 күн бұрын

Yes, we'll see what happens if I get it fixed (huge assumption) cheers

Don't you love the Tested OK, Sticker

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

Exactly, like the listing on ebay, "was working not tested". Weasel words, cheers

Maximum unrepairability. Everything is assembled on the backplate/heatsink, potting compound is poured into the housing cavities, then the fully assembled electronics package gets dropped into the housing, screws are put on to keep everything aligned until the potting sets, then the thing can never be taken apart without destroying stuff. If you want to get in without destroying the electronics, you have to hack the housing away to free the inductors and caps.

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

Hi, yes cutting the top apart seems to be the way. Time for someone to show precise measurements, someone with another unit and a loose top, cheers

@teardowndan5364

Ай бұрын

@@TheInfoworks make holes across the housing, string a jigsaw blade through, saw the top off. Probably the easiest way to avoid damaging components since you are cutting away from components after the starting holes and can also use a boroscope to check things out first.

You never broke it, they did

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

Hi, it's set up that way if you believe the labels, max current should be half of that claimed for continuous long term use, cheers

i have an Victron MPPT 150/85. Oversized for my 1600w solar panels. Bud for the safety i buy this controller to make the load not to heavy for an longer lifespan. If this MPPT controller unexpectedly breaks, I will buy an MPPT controller that can be disassembled for repair.

@TheInfoworks

9 күн бұрын

Perfect, you applied the second rule of solar, always run equipment well below it's maximum. You should get many years out your controller as long as it stays cool, cheers

@lexpee

9 күн бұрын

it's ridiculous that these charge controllers can't just be disassembled. Without breaking it.

@TheInfoworks

9 күн бұрын

@@lexpee I've cut the top of the spare one, video up soon, cheers

Fuses, but if they blow, then how to replace... No chance

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

Hi, yes get the axe out, there to protect profits not customers, cheers

I have a HYUNDAI genarator in to fix the inverter is potted in resin so no repair I think items like that should be removed and banned down to waste we supposed to be green in the UK lol

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

Hi, I can see vibration can be a problem with generators but total potting is just corporate banditry, cheers

@daveherd6864

Ай бұрын

​@TheInfoworks I get it with the heavy caps but a simple cable tie fixes that but resistors and small components no need for it like you say its about the money

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

@@daveherd6864 Dave, exactly, and so the company good name and respect for quality is slowly eroded away at the altar of short term profit and bonuses, cheers

I did it's clone on my KZread awhile ago

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

interesting, I'll take a look.

It is scrap, highly priced, advertised as best but non repairable. I will stick with EPEVER Mppt. These electronics goes to landfill if can’t be repaired. Moreover, how someone can change the fuses if it is too hard to access it.

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

You are right and it's not right, cheers

I've purchased Three Solar panels every one gives hoid volts about 17 volts but ONLY mA , 150 mA yo maybe 250 mA that us 50 watts in bright sun... Hu what a con job. At least I got money back off two but not from Eco-Worth which is land fill

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

The short circuit current test is the ultimate test, what do they do if you cut the diodes out? (in the box on the back). I have come across a dead panel and it turned out to be a faulty bypass diode. There's plenty of scam merchants out there selling faulty reject gear, cheers

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

See my video "what went wrong, faulty panel wafers: part 3". There's a solar panel investigations playlist.

i did not know that victron units can go bad i was always told that they are bullet proof and they last forever and that are the best and you cannot kill them,,,,well

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

Like all of us, pushed to the limit with perhaps bad instillation this is what happens. It's the " you shall not repair" that I find despicable, cheers

@bimmers323ci

Ай бұрын

@@TheInfoworks try the epever tracer 100a charge controller I am using them now for about 3 to 4 years with no problem but been using epever for about 10 years

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

@@bimmers323ci Thanks for the tip, with these scrap units it's the chance to delve in for a common good that interests me, cheers

Its excepting input not accepting input ya mean lol

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

Not my writing, but we know what they meant, cheers

It makes me sick that they do that!!! You pay a lot of money for those and they’re not ‘that’ good and they can’t be stripped and repaired!!! Victorian and master volt I don’t use anymore! I use Chinese equivalents and they’re more reliable and can be repaired if needed!!!!

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

Hi, I always run things well below the rated duty, that way they last for years. Our 48v multiplus has done 25 Mw over 16 years. Got to keep things cool. I think it's crazy that grid inverters are mounted in lofts, exactly the wrong place. Yes mastervolt are definitely rubbish and they have backed out of the grid inverter market, the inside of them reminded me of a 1950s radio. cheers

@SkyNetworkSolutions

Ай бұрын

had the same issue until i got a Outback Fm 80.

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

@@SkyNetworkSolutions Hi, this video has definitely hit a nerve, stories of being let down, cheers

KZread declined with censorship and scam adverts.

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

And taking advantage of established creators, some like Simon Leach just don't do monitisation and produce fewer videos, cheers

Victron not victon

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

Thanks for pointing out the typo, much appreciated.

Like a-lot of products today, they make them un-repairable :-(, the only answer is RTR laws, PS I have a victron 100/50 unit

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

Exactly, but how long will it take for this to filter down, cheers

That poor manufacturing by victon, how to u repair an instrument, if you can't dissemble easy

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

Exactly, it's clear this is not meant to be taken apart, cheers

@junkerzn7312

Ай бұрын

Its a bit of a mixed bag. If you want something like that to last out in the field you pretty much have to seal it in some manner. Potting, conformal coatings, etc. And deal with heat and vibration. Otherwise environmental conditions outside wiggle their way in and greatly shorten the life of the power electronics.

@habana7638

Ай бұрын

yeah poor manufacturing by victon, that's why they give you 6 year warranty...🥱

They’re so cheap to make probably make them for less than 20 quid so they would never think of repairing one 

@TheInfoworks

Ай бұрын

Hi, probably in huge volumes, I still say run them at half capacity and they will last for years, cheers

Next time, please use a vice!